Immaterialism 7

First topic message reminder :

This is the continuation of the Immaterialism 6 thread.......

The original topic reminder post https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t320-immaterialism
should be substituted here......

Please remember to confine you dialogue to matters that are pertinent to the topic of immaterialism/disclosure.

Thank you.

You have a charismatic presentation Dan... same with smelly and same with AP and all of you other ones. Who can define charisma anyway but if you didn't have that, the CIA would not have picked you out to be RP's public face and messenger in the first place.

99,

Please, don’t go stupid on us, here.......

You are acting as if you don’t know the difference between charisma and coherence.......

Stop acting dumb, please......

Run, 99, do not walk, to your nearest dictionary......

Look up the word COHERENCE....... please... for all of our sakes....!


(cont.......)

dan wrote:V,

Two wrongs don’t make a right.  


smelly,

On being here, now.........

Yes, I agree that we are not just cogs on wheel.  


And then we have V, from the ‘God’ thread.......

Set up your calendars to see where you need to be. In the small world everyone is his own personal Jesus.

And in the big world outside the only thing you need is a mirror.

smelly,

V has given a partial answer as to how it is that we came to be here, now.  

It was not an easy journey, but journey it was.........

If we, humans, just look around us, we see our fellow creatures, all in a state of nature.  

We ask, smelly........ are these creatures not much more accomplished at being here, now, than are we humans?  

We have to read books about how to be here, now.

The animals.......?  Hey, they don’t have to go to school to learn about being present...... they come by it naturally..... spontaneously.....

We, on the other hand...... we have gurus, and imbibe hallucinogens..... all, just in order to learn how to be present.  

What is going on.....?  Are we strangers in a strange land?  



(cont.......)

Books and gurus don’t reveal anything.

They are barriers.

We reveal only to ourselves.

I learned the world was a mirror through direct inquiry.

Then you forget yourself.

GSB/SSR wrote:es·cha·tol·o·gy
/ˌeskəˈtäləjē/
noun
the part of theology concerned with death, judgment, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind.

"Christian hope is concerned with eschatology, or the science of last things"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology

False hope invented by talking monkeys.

dan wrote:Gary,

Apocalypse, now.......?

You should be listening to smelly.......

smelly is telling us, all, just to chill out, dudes.......

smelly is also saying........ stop the world, I want to get off.....

..... which is exactly the point of mysticism......

..... to get out of the human rapids, the human torrent, and get back to the natural flow.....

....... gently, gently, down the stream.......   

As we are floating along, gently, gently...... at least half the world claims to be hearing the roar of an approaching falls.  

Word from smelly....... pay no attention to the roar...... just enjoy the flow.  

I agree, 100%........ unless you feel called to respond.....

Me.......?  hey, I’m a first responder.  

But...... wait one darn minute, says smelly.......

Exactly who is calling whom......?  

That is a very good question, smelly.....!!


(cont.......)

I’m not a mystic and I don’t want to get off.

You do.

Stop misquoting me.

Nothing has called anyone.

We all react to being here our own way.

The more entanglements you have, the more bound in time you are.

smelly,

You are our #1 introspector.....

Tell us, please, what do you see inside.....?

I find the clarity of a bell and mirror.

Only arrived at through great doubt.

I found incredible lands of imagination.

Total freedom.

A smiling smile.

My true voice.

Having coherence in ones message is part of the charisma package for many of us, including me. You fit the bill on that one Dan. We may not agree with you on things all the time but at least you challenge us in the thinking dept.

Charisma is not wisdom.

So, smelly,

You could have fallen off the pumpkin cart, yesterday, for all you know or care!


99,

smelly is right.  Charisma is not wisdom..... not in general.....

But, there is a technical response, biblical in nature......

Technically, it could be said that I have received one of the Charisms of the Holy Spirit....... the Charism of Discernment.

This is the spiritual meaning behind ‘charisma’...... everything else is just Hollywood.  


(cont......)

All one had to do is make their own open minded naked self inquiry and they will grapple with the bull.

What they do in response is their choice.

Only they would know what I mean.

Anything else is mental masturbstion and speculation.

Here you will meet all the others.

smelly,

And what, pray tell, prompted you to that original self inquiry?

Was that not also a charism...... a charism of...... God, forbid...... the cosmic spirit.....??

Charisma In Action.


C.I.A.


Hobbit

hobbit,

Now, why didn’t ‘we’ think of that......?


99,

Truth only has one proof....... the proof is within..... your inner discernment.  

Truth cannot be imposed on anything or anyone.  

The spirit that prompted smelly to self inquiry is the same one that can prompt you to discernment.  

But, yes, like smelly says...... you have to open your heart and soul to it.  Only in rare instances would it impose on you........ more likely, you were inviting it, but on a deeper level.  


4..........

smelly claims to have just fallen off the pumpkin wagon......

smelly claims to be a self (un)made man.

I call..... cow paddy.



(cont......)

You can never judge if another has inquired within.

But you can certainly smell it on them.

Luckily Dan, no one on earth can experience the self but those who self Authorize themselves to do so.

I certainly can’t prove it.

Look yourself is all I could say.

How?

I don’t know.

It seemed the best time to question everything and so I did.

I am no longer held by any belief or unbelief.

Things just worked out.

If that’s not satisfactory to you, the confusion is yours.

I gain or lose nothing from what others think about it.

I have met others who have asked these questions.

Where the path to it is myriad, it seems anyone seeking finds the same in being here minus delusion.

Ok, so now smelly is an empty vessel.....

Uh, oh, I hear that nature abhors a vacuum.

Is nature going to abhor, you, smelly?

I’m not empty.

I’m just ok with being here as this.

I don’t get distracted by much these days.

This is wholeness to me.

Being is not dependent on your beliefs

Beliefs generally don’t allow you to be as you are.

Because desire and fear usually drives them.

I don’t feel ignored by nature.

I feel right in the middle of it.

You can cognize what I’m pointing to in your self only.

I don’t understand why you don’t accept your life and the earth as it is Dan.

But you can argue it til you lose your breath if you like.

Losing my breath........?

How could I lose my breath to you, smelly?  

I lose my breath, and I gain a pure spirit.

Why don’t I just accept my life and the world?  

Animals do this..... for sure.  

Why can’t we be more like the animals?  

We eat the same food, and drink the same water..... for sure.  

Once they’ve seen Paris, how are we going to keep them down on the farm?  

smelly has seen Paris, for sure...... and, yet, here he is, right back on the farm, just like nothing had happened.  

But, wait a minute, smelly.  I look around me, and I’m not seeing any farm.  I’m not seeing any cows...... I’m not seeing any sheep......

All I’m seeing is one smelly goat.......

Ha...!  You thought you could fool me!  You’re not a goat...... you are Krishna...... and, now, I must be Arjuna!  

But now there is a twist........  

You are telling me me that I _don’t_ have to go and battle with the forces of Darkness.  

No, you say, there is no Darkness.  

Really......!  

Why, then, is there so much pointless striving in the land?  

Why is there so much myopia..... so much ego centeredness?  

Oh, says smelly....... you mean _that_ Darkness.  

Hey, that’s just natural darkness....... pay no heed, smitty....... go with the flow......

Hmmm........

Ok, Krishna, let’s make a deal........

Let’s you and me go out and talk to the muppets, oops, I mean forces of Darkness, and just see what’s going on......

And, hey, that’s sort of what we are doing, now, anyway...... isn’t it?  

And what are these muppets up to?  

A lot are going around reading a little black book.  Let’s see what it says........

Hmmm........

Sure, there are ten commandments.  But here’s something else..... “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.”  

Hmmm........

Now, there’s a commandment that’s been keeping us really busy.... and down on the farm...... so to speak......

It seems as though we have risen to that challenge, all right....... and then some.  

Some where else it says something about beating swords into plowshares........

Now, the non prophetic traditions..... they are a bit more subtle about this...... and there is no talk of subduing nature. I wonder what that is all about.

I don’t know, smelly....... I just seem to be predisposed to asking questions.



(cont.......)

I meant use your breath until death takes it.

What did I do before seeing paris, chop wood.

After...

Chop wood

The rules didn't change for me, I'm not special.

Close the books.

Look within.

smelly,

Do you believe in synchronicity?
..........


7:40........

smelly seems to have the room........

I asked about synchronicity.....

I pose the question in response to his admonition that we must only look within.

Many folks of all traditions pay attention to synchronicity. Besides the professional materialists, I don’t know anyone who doesn’t.



(cont.......)

That I can only nod at, it certainly seems to happen a lot.

I have used it to decide on a direction at times, like the flip of a coin.

The more one does this, close to their nature, the better the results it seems.

Spontaneous action is the natural flow of the Cosmos for me.

Probably why I really don't think anyone is called to anything per se.

Who would be doing the calling?

See, smelly is not as dumb as he sometimes pretends to be........

He is actually anticipating a follow up question or two.

He sure didn’t fall the little Krishna gambit, did he?  

So, he contends that synchronicity is just another aspect of nature.  

Nothing remarkable...... just keep moving along, please......



(cont......)

I can only say that based on my own experience, but yes, it appears so.

Is there a process that can use synchronicity as a corrective, like error correcting code, why not? If fibonacci sequence just spontaneously emerged, why not error correcting codes?

Speculation here on my part.

Is synchronicity cheating or some process we are misunderstanding?

I think things tend to use the least amount of energy in nature to solve problems.

That is a big clue how to let delusions rise and fall away from your mind.

This came to me...

"In 1952 C. G. Jung published a paradoxical hypothesis on synchronicity that marked an attempt to expand the western world's conception of the relationship between nature and the psyche. Jung's hypothesis sought to break down the polarizing cause-effect assessment of the world and psyche, suggesting that everything is interconnected. Thus, synchronicity is both "a meaningful event" and "an acausal connecting principle." Evaluating the world in this manner opened the door to "exploring the possibility of meaning in chance or random events, deciphering if and when meaning might be present even if outside conscious awareness." Now, after contextualizing Jung's work in relation to contemporary scientific advancements such as relativity and quantum theories, Joseph Cambray explores in this book how Jung's theories, practices, and clinical methods influenced the current field of complexity theory, which works with a paradox similar to Jung's synchronicity: the importance of symmetry as well as the need to break that symmetry for "emergence" to occur. Finally, Cambray provides his unique contribution to the field by attempting to trace "cultural synchronicities," a reconsideration of historical events in terms of their synchronistic aspects. For example, he examines the emergence of democracy in ancient Greece in order "to find a model of group decision making based on emergentist principles with a synchronistic core."

Synchronicity is when a coincidence shifts the motion of your life.

Coincidence in action is synchronicity.
Synchronicity helps us know if we are on the right track (or not).

I have deliberately done this over 5 years and it works!

Let’s be clear that both synchronicity and apophenia exist.

The trap of synchronicity is to create connections that are misleading.

The trap of apophenia is to refuse to accept valid connections that lead to important insights and improved life choices.

How do we tell the difference between synchronicity and false connections?

Live the experiences and practice!

An open and relaxed mind is critical for synchronicity. It is easy to force signs into connections which aren’t relevant. We can see many potentials and possible paths ahead of us, yet we walk only one physical path at a time. Deciding which signs are relevant to follow can be overwhelming if our mind is not clear.

With a clear mind, we will simply understand the sign, know the path forward and step into it. We won’t choose to follow a path out of worry, doubt or a desire for life to be a specific way.

Because synchronicity works with “what might be” or potential, we must hold it lightly. We are on a current path, yet we have not chosen the future path.

Learning to work with synchronicity is an art. We watch for the signs, take actions and test them over time.

Benefiting from synchronicity requires both learning how to see the big steps in your life path expansively while using facts and a sense of reason to refine your smaller next steps ahead.

I can't explain, but I'd be a fool to ignore it.

Excellent...... thank you, I always like to learn new words.  

And just because a person is paranoid, it doesn’t mean that they’re not actually being followed.  

Ok....... I’m encouraged to go a step further.......

There is meaning in the world...... synchronicity points to meaning outside of just ourselves.  

It may not be objective, but it is, at least, intersubjective.  

There may also be purpose in the world...... outside and beyond any individual purposes.  

Philosophically, this comes under the rubric of teleology.  

Synchronicity speaks to future causes.  

So, smelly, when you flip a coin to choose a future course, the future is, in some sense, beckoning to you...... is calling you into a future course of action.  

I feel that the Telos is calling me.  That is my calling.  

Am I deluded..... in considering this possibility?  

Many people prefer to attach a name to the Telos.  The name most frequently attached is Jesus.  

Is that a scornful predilection?  Does it merit your scorn.... in and of itself?  

However, on the other thread, I’m doing some more than this..... I am somehow identifying with the Telos. I’m taking it personally.

There is that of the Telos in all of us.

I look around me and see a lot of muppets.



(cont.......)