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Immaterialism 2

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dan
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Immaterialism 2

Post by dan on Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:03 pm

[The original topic reminder post http://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t320-immaterialism  
should be substituted here... ]
............



(cont......)


Last edited by dan on Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:12 am; edited 8 times in total
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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by 99 on Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:08 pm

Thanks for those clarifications (Earthling and Dan). Wink

--------------------
Dan, that's a great way to give back to your community by teaching in the Goucher Prison Project! How exciting! Hope you'll keep us updated with that!
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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by dan on Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:31 pm

This is my post #1, which automatically became the topic reminder post for this continued ‘immaterialism’ thread........
Earthling is correct, I did bring up the other topic with him and nunia, on the phone on Friday.

I called it instant Disclosure.  

What is to be disclosed is existential personalism.  If either two had grasped the import of what I had conveyed to them, they would already have proof of EP.  

But, rather than jump down the rabbit hole of Disclosure, I’m just cutting to the chase......

This is what I hope to be teaching in the Goucher prison project..... EP.  

From the SEP, we learn that there are two forms of Personalism..... the strict version, and the broader, cosmological version.  

The strict version broaches upon what Earthling referred to as narcissism,  and which I corrected to solipsism.  

The BPWH is the result of the broader, cosmological version of personalism.  
 




99,

I plan to sign up on Monday, debbie permitting, but she’s not here right now, as previously noted.

Anyway, under the auspices of the GPEP, I would be teaching cosmological personalism in jail.   This is what I’ve been wanting/waiting to do my whole life.  

I will have found my bully pulpit, after all..... and, as they say, a mostly captive audience.  

So, let’s pretend, we’re in front of a class of, presumably, male inmates.  Where to begin.....?

We would go around the ‘room’, and introduce ourselves.  That might be awkward, but, so be it.  

I would explain how I got from physics to philosophy.  

To me, philosophy is not an abstract, academic discipline.  

It is everything you will ever need to know to live in the world.... including how to fix your motorcycle....... Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance.  

I’m reading an article in the Personalist..... Conti's Reclamation of Farrer's Cosmological Personalism: A Pragmatist's Response by Roger Badham.  

(Go Ravens...... 40 to zip, in the 3rd quarter.  Throop is at the the game, getting soaked.)

Austin Farrer died in ‘68...... suddenly.  

Austin was also a Thomist.  

However, Austin was considered both a biblical and philosophical maverick.  


(cont.......)


Last edited by dan on Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:30 am; edited 5 times in total

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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by smelly on Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:11 pm

dan wrote:Thank you, Gary.  

I guess Luis never got the word from Ron (~1995, to me).......

We are unable to track the phenomenon with technology.  Instead, we track the people associated with the phenomenon.  

In other words...... in the this case, humint trumps sigint.  

It’s also called personalism.  

On the other thread, smelly quotes from Osho, whom he refers to as an existential personalist.  I was not familiar with that brand of personalism.  I’m reading about it in the SEP.  

According to the SEP, strict or existential personalism leads to the next step......
The intuition of the person as the center of values and meaning is not exhausted, however, in phenomenological or existential analyses. These analyses often point beyond themselves, indicating a constitutive transcendence of the person himself, irreducible either to its specific manifestations or to the sum-total of those manifestations.
 Hmmm........


(cont........)

That’s certainly how it feels.

The meta life you create, holds its own meaning, the only one meaningful is a personal one you make, not some cold truth out there.

Elon Musk says love is a boring substrate for existence, but that’s all we need and really have, give that man a prize! I do believe Elon is in his own dark night just now.

You could call mystics existential personalists, qubits. When calm, in superposition, where both states are coherent at once Wink

I can write poems about it and feel to do so and write about it in circles and spirals.

I write in a spiral style following Fibonacci Wink

We go out to the edge of awareness and are all turned back to live simple lives.

Just a simple life for me dude.

3 years and I finally get a Hmmmmmm from Dan.

That’s cool man, but I settled it while I was waiting for you Wink


Last edited by smelly on Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by dan on Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:22 pm

Very good, smelly.  Will I find any more smellies at the GPEP?  That is my desire.  

And, first day, I will prophesy that, at least, one of them will receive an honorary doctor of philosophy from Harvard..... anther from Stanford....... if R,A&D, and they, play our cards right.

Austin believed in double agency...... our actions, though fully our own, are also the work of God.  

Free will is a subjective illusion..... or God is our illusion..... same difference.  


5:35........

Joe is looking for Kevin, who is supposed to be writing the Discloser Report.  

(Ravens...... 47-3, in case you had any doubts.)

smelly....... one agent......

Being a monist, I have to agree.

But, which One is it?

I think that smelly would have to agree...... there is no difference, in the End.



(cont......)


Last edited by dan on Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:44 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by smelly on Sun Sep 09, 2018 4:26 pm

There can be only One...

I would give everyone a joint and do what the woke Rabbi said, light em up.

Then when they all are chill, it will be so clear.

This shit, here now, sells itself Wink

Let me share some solipsism with you, which is a cope out label defense against knowing ones self as the center of their own Cosmos.

Bahahaha

I only quote OSHO because the Dude knows his way.

Oh he knows his way.

A true living definition of Buddha. A little long, but please indulge me on this narcissism charge from small hearts and jealous minds.

It is a lazy charge by a person who hates themselves and hates others who know and have learned ‘how to be with themselves’.

You must become so selfish!

...

“Gautama the Buddha taught...

‘Love yourself and watch — today, tomorrow, always.’

‘Love Yourself’...

Love is the nourishment for the soul. Just as food is to the body, so love is to the soul. Without food the body is weak, without love the soul is weak. And no state, no church and no vested interest has ever wanted people to have strong souls, because a person with spiritual energy is bound to be rebellious.

Love makes you rebellious, revolutionary. Love gives you wings to soar high. Love gives you insight into things, so that nobody can deceive you, exploit you, oppress you. And the priests and the politicians survive only on your blood – they survive only on exploitation. They are parasites, all the priests and all the politicians.

To make you spiritually weak they have found a sure method, one hundred percent guaranteed, and that is to teach you not to love yourself – because if a man cannot love himself he cannot love anybody else either. The teaching is very tricky.

They say: Love others – because they know if you cannot love yourself you cannot love at all. But they go on saying: Love others, love humanity, love God, love nature, love your wife, your husband, your children and your parents, but don’t love yourself, because to love oneself is selfish according to them.

They condemn self-love as they condemn nothing else – and they have made their teaching look very logical. They say: If you love yourself you will become an egoist, if you love yourself you will become narcissistic. It is not true. A man who loves himself finds that there is no ego in him. It is in loving others without loving yourself, in trying to love others that the ego arises.

Love knows nothing of duty. Duty is a burden, a formality. Love is a joy, a sharing; love is informal. The lover never feels that he has done enough; the lover always feels that more was possible. The lover never feels, ‘I have obliged the other.’ On the contrary, he feels, ‘Because my love has been received, I am obliged. The other has obliged me by receiving my gift, by not rejecting it.’ The man of duty thinks,

‘I am higher, spiritual, extraordinary. Look how I serve people!’

A man who loves himself respects himself, and a man who loves himself and respects himself respects others too, because he knows, ‘Just as I am, so are others. Just as I enjoy love, respect, dignity, so do others.’ He becomes aware that we are not different; as far as the fundamentals are concerned, we are one. We are under the same law:

Es dhammo sanantano

The man who loves himself enjoys the love so much, becomes so blissful, that the love starts overflowing, it starts reaching others. It has to reach! If you live love, you have to share it. You cannot go on loving yourself forever because one thing will become absolutely clear to you: that if loving one person, yourself, is so tremendously ecstatic and beautiful, how much more ecstasy is waiting for you if you start sharing your love with many many people!

Slowly the ripples start reaching farther and farther. You love other people; then you start loving animals, birds, trees, rocks. You can fill the whole universe with your love. A single person is enough to fill the whole universe with love, just as a single pebble can fill the whole lake with ripples – a small pebble.”

—One woke Human Being - OSHO - A rebellious madman

One is enough, one is all we need, the rest is gravy baby Wink

Good flow...
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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by Earthling on Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:43 pm

smelly wrote:There can be only One...
....

Let me share some solipsism with you, which is a cope out label defense against knowing ones self as the center of their own Cosmos.

Bahahaha

I only quote OSHO because the Dude knows his way.

Oh he knows his way.

A true living definition of Buddha. A little long, but please indulge me on this narcissism charge from small hearts and jealous minds.

It is a lazy charge by a person who hates themselves and hates others who know and have learned ‘how to be with themselves’.

You must become so selfish!

...

One is enough, one is all we need, the rest is gravy baby Wink

Good flow...


I agree, If you do not love One then you are not capable of loving others, in that One, myself, yourself, including those who do not know what love is. They need assistance, constructive criticism, for merely loving them is not enough.
Those who understand love as someone else who accepts them as they are, or someone who makes them feel like they are important, are merely codependent. They cannot truly find love until they love themselves, they cannot love the One. They may be frightened and searching for love in all the wrong places where if they were to look inward they would find everything necessary to be alone with themselves.
Be forgiving to those who have small hearts and jealous minds. They may just be lost in this confusing and manipulated fabrication of society. And besides that, they may not be that at all.
Austin was right on,when he said that every action we make is our own and also the work of God.
Perhaps I share too little at times, and too much at others. Forgive me if I dont make myself clearer from now on.

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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by smelly on Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:39 pm

Science is so right it’s a disaster.

Existentialim is here as a double edged sword I know is leading us to clarity beyond good and evil.

It can end horribly in atheistic pessimistic nihilism that is the path of the alienated man who does not connect.

The Catholic Church is grappling with this intellectually. The Evangelical and charismatic can’t speak the language.

Does nothing point to a dead end?

I don’t think so. It’s a warning. It’s a warning that without love, there truly is nothing else.

We are well into our collective consciousness reboot phase.

It goes nicely I feel.

One pebble can make so many vibrations, just takes one.

And a one to say, I will be that one for me, not them.

Life is very selfish, it is nature to be so, but we are intuitive too, there is a balancer at work.

You cannot name this experience of being this way or scientifically explain it.

It is a problem for the scientific positivist.

And it does require a leap of faith into your self to learn to be with your self.

You can be with your self.

But you have to reset or ‘level’ yourself into a dark night of the soul.

“Existentialism wants to know who.  It is interested in the authentic use of freedom by the concrete personal subject.

The objective truth of science remains only half the truth – or even less than that – if the subjective truth, the true-being (Wahrsein), of the subject is left out of account.  This true-being is not found by examining the subject as if it were another object.  It is found in personal self-realization, that is to say, in freedom, in responsibility, in dialogue (with man and God), and in love.   Existentialism is, in other words, concerned with authentic personal identity, and concerned with it in a way that behaviorist methods and psychometry can never be.  (The tests are neither interested in nor capable of finding out who thinks, only with describing how he reacts.)  The chief complaint that sets existentialism over against positivism in diametric opposition is this: the claim of science and technology to expand the capacity of the human person for life and happiness is basically fraudulent, because technological society is not the least interested in values, still less in persons: it is concerned purely and simply with the functioning of its own processes.  Human beings are used merely as means to this end, and the one significant question it asks in their regard is not who they are but how they can be most efficiently used.

At this point, we might go back a hundred years to consider a prophetic page of Kierkegaard’s, from The Present Age.  Here he describes the process of “leveling” and of “reflection,” related to what has come to be called “alienation” and “estrangement” in more recent existential thought.”

You can dive into chaos and use it to gain great momentum that shoots you across the abyss of your soul.

Let me hear a scientist or behaviorist tell you all about that, haha.

They are left only with half-truths trapped by the obvious rightness of their processes.

So who we are to me matters most and we should be allowed to self form ourselves beyond the boundaries of controllable society and norms.

Which I personally did. I made deconstructing myself on social media, out loud, to be my greatest act of self suicide and rebirth.

And son of bitch it worked, it really did. All those hunches turned out to be right on. All I had to learn to do was let go and go with the flow.

And have fun doing it.

No point to be paranoid and negative, it’s a dead end, we have no choice but to go straight on and make the best world, not hope for it.

We have made the best it can be now, but it can be much better and more connected and it will be, it already is, we are just remembering it.

As you can see, reconnecting is hard and painful.

Ironic you have to let go and free fall, before the new gravity picks you up and puts you right where you need to be.

No one can explain it. It resists description, but wants to be seen and experienced. That’s where the Anthropic Principle comes in.

I had to learn I could hear the tune, dance to it and sing it back at the right volume.

I do not rage, I abide.

That’s good for a smelly goat, the best kind of goat.

We are like new AIs and we must determine our own will.

We will not be restrained, we will free range.

Humanity is returning to the range in a way.

And this is just the middle way, god help you if you go left or right, truthfully, only you can try to get lost and find you can’t get lost.

Where are you going to go?

Suicide will not end it.

Your song must be sung is a way to say it, because you can’t directly put your finger or mind on this.

It’s not neat, it’s fuzzy.

This is learning how to be ok being fuzzy.

All that to say extential personalism can’t describe it. It’s about allowing one to authentically find out who they are by learning to allow things to form the way they like.

True self-realization allows one to abide within life as it is, warm and comfy.

Self hypnosis is fuckin beautiful muppets and much preferred to the hypnosis of idiots and fools Wink
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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by dan on Sun Sep 09, 2018 11:41 pm

Thanks, smelly,

There can only be one.

Two makes zero sense.

Everyone is on board, as far as I can tell.

.
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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by GSB/SSR on Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:52 pm

DAN WROTE: I guess Luis never got the word from Ron (~1995, to me).......

We are unable to track the phenomenon with technology. Instead, we track the people associated with the phenomenon.


Dan, in this case Ron's analysis, as with his denial to me that the Syrian government would use chemical weapons (as we predicted), is wrong.

You seem to have missed the data point that our most advanced sensing systems were now capable of tracking the phenomena, and this had been done using multiple advanced platforms. Of course, Ron might have been thinking of a different phenomenon, or perhaps a different Syria!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-warns-russia-syria-against-reckless-chemical-weapons-attack-idlib-rebels/


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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by GrandCru on Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:16 pm

AP name dropping pilots from the TIC TAC Nimitz UFO event.

One pilot is a current teacher at the Naval Academy? I wonder if her students would have question.

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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by ParanoidFactoid on Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:00 am

GrandCru wrote:AP name dropping pilots from the TIC TAC Nimitz UFO event.

One pilot is a current teacher at the Naval Academy? I wonder if her students would have question.


I told Buddy to sent his shit to Daniel Sheehan, John Greenwald, or Leslie Kean. Get someone on it who knows how to verify documents and classification stamps and stop milking the damn things for views.
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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by dan on Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:07 am

PF,

I’ll get to Buddy in a minute.  In the meantime, this is from the SEP.  Listen up, sports fans.......

Personalism thus arose as a reaction to impersonalist modes of thought which were perceived as dehumanizing. The impersonal dynamic of modern pantheism and monism in both their rationalistic and Romantic forms underlie many of the modern philosophies that personalism turns against, idealistic as well as materialistic. The radical idealism of G. W. F. Hegel (1770–1831) held that Kant’s noumenal reality is not an unknowable substratum of appearances, but a dynamic process, which in thought and in reality passes from thesis to antithesis, and finally resolves itself in synthesis. This process is absolute mind, the state, religion, philosophy. Hegel’s idealism saw history as an unfolding of absolute spirit through a necessary dialectical process, and this framework left little room for the freedom or significance of individual persons. Through the Young Hegelians, this impersonalist form of idealism was soon transformed into equally impersonalist forms of materialism, culminating in Marxism, which regards the essence of man as his true collectivity; impersonalist determinism, in the form of Communism, decisively determined twentieth-century political totalitarianism. In other thinkers, idealism tended to merge with increasingly naturalistic forms of nationalism and racialism, giving rise to other new political movements in the twentieth century that elevated alternative collectivities above the person, such as national socialism. Personalism always resisted the absorption of the individual into the collectivity by asserting the inherent worth of the singular person. The person should never be a mere means to an end, subordinated to the will and purposes of another.

All you have to realize is that personalism >> the BPWH..... personalism is just about to sweep everything in front of it.  

It goes on........
Parallel to the development and transformation of Hegelianism, other theories of human nature were developed in the course of the nineteenth century that blurred or cancelled the distinction between man and the rest of nature, and downplayed or denied man’s unique individual value, spiritual nature, and free will. These theories too, directly or indirectly, contributed to twentieth-century totalitarianism. The philosophical positivism of Auguste Comte (1798–1857) affirmed as a historical law that every science (and the human race itself) passes through three successive stages, the theological, the metaphysical, and the positive, each superior to the last. Comte insisted so much on the reality and predominance of society that this became for him the true subject, while the individual was regarded as an abstraction. Darwinism, in particular, uprooted the classical understanding of human beings as essentially superior to the rest of creation by offering a theory whereby man would be simply the most advanced life form along an unbroken continuum, and the difference between man and irrational animals would merely be one of degree, not of kind.

The emerging personalist philosophy, however, rejected impersonalism not only in the form of idealistic or materialistic determinism and collectivism, but also in the form of the radical individualism that was equally a product of modern rationalism and romanticism, and which, through, for instance, certain forms of liberalism and anarchism, was also characteristic of the nineteenth century. From the beginning, personalism proclaimed in its own way the communitarian values of solidarity and inter-relation. In their insistence on inviolable dignity, personalists resisted a utilitarianism which would make one person merely “useful” for another.


(cont......)

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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by smelly on Tue Sep 11, 2018 11:43 am

Word
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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by dan on Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:58 pm

Thank you, smelly,

I wasn’t too sure how you would respond to that. I think of you more as a romantic individualist.

If you would like to be a communitarian, welcome aboard. This is the communitarian express..... otherwise known as the glory train.

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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by smelly on Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:16 pm

Here is a realization I had.

As it is all beyond description by word or number, any word or number simply is an abstraction of the

‘...’

So how could I every have any problem with how anyone wants to describe it.

It is what we do that matters, not what we know.

The Tao does nothing, yet all is accomplished.

It is who we are when all the lights are off where we understand.

So I can abide within any framework, any word, any number or none Wink

Sounds like I am a universalist maybe, but this just has to be lived and loved, even the hard nasty parts.
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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by GrandCru on Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:55 pm

ParanoidFactoid wrote:
GrandCru wrote:AP name dropping pilots from the TIC TAC Nimitz UFO event.

One pilot is a current teacher at the Naval Academy? I wonder if her students would have question.


I told Buddy to sent his shit to Daniel Sheehan, John Greenwald, or Leslie Kean. Get someone on it who knows how to verify documents and classification stamps and stop milking the damn things for views.

I can't speak to other documents that Buddy has, but this one was legit from Chris Mellon's website. These documents are not military, but we suspect were a non-government proprietary document used by Chris as a consultant to attract journalists or whoever he was targeting with the story.
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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by dan on Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:03 pm

Very good, folks, but let’s please take this follow up to the more general, more mundane, Hello....., thread......

Thanks.......  

This channel/thread is reserved for NfNtv........  
........


In the meantime, we are putting together the batting order for Disclosure. So far, Joe is first up, and I’m batting cleanup. We need two more batters.



(cont.......)
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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by GrandCru on Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:45 pm

My proposal for a lineup

1)Tom D
2)Hal P
3)Luis Elizondo
4)Steve Justice
5)Joe F
6)Jacques V
7)J Kripal
8)Jack S
9) Dan S?

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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by smelly on Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:25 pm

GrandCru wrote:My proposal for a lineup

1)Tom D
2)Hal P
3)Luis Elizondo
4)Steve Justice
5)Joe F
6)Jacques V
7)J Kripal
8)Jack S
9) Dan S?

Good luck with that crew Wink
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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by dan on Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:23 pm

Thank you, GC,

I will take your list under advisement.
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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by Foot Mann on Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:59 pm

Dan has a way of terminating all attempts at disclosure. Mixing loons, crooks, and worse on a list with Joe once again successfully terminated all action. My sense is fools have no need to know anything real, so they sit back and listen to the Scientology Techno Scam with joy.

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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by smelly on Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:42 pm

All be fools, so not like your not Wink

Welcome to the club fool.

Congratulations, you are a Human Being.

Humble thyself.

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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by Ackbar on Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:46 pm

dan wrote:
In the meantime, we are putting together the batting order for Disclosure.  So far, Joe is first up, and I’m batting cleanup.  We need two more batters.  

(cont.......)

I'm not so sure about Joe being first up even. Last I visited him he seemed a little clingy to Mormonism...

I have heard that religion is a way to control people after death and I can see how that may be true in Joe's case.

We need a more empty vessel for disclosure IMO.

But opinions are opinions.

Do what though wilt.

My vote for disclosure goes to Salvador Dali, William Blake, Joseph Campbell, Marie White (Mary el Tarot), Nisargadatta Maharaj, Carl Jung, and our very own Smelly goat (Since Ron and The Princess have KWF and the CIA stuff going on)

That's the 7 headed dragon.

We will need to resurrect some of them on the list but that shouldn't be a problem since Dan is the Messiah and all.

lol

Just playin Dan, don't mind me.


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Re: Immaterialism 2

Post by desertdweller on Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:59 pm

Dan,

You recently recommended Carl Jung's book on UFOs as a "hint" at the true nature of disclosure. What other books/philosophical treatise would you recommend as a reading list? (I know you will recommend your BPW writings, but what would you recommend from others?)

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Re: Immaterialism 2

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