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Immaterialism 7 - Page 9 Icon_minitimeToday at 12:02 pm by Big Bunny Love

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Who's Disclosure is Disclosure?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:16 am by Cyrellys

The narrative war is in full swing. When there's a 100 different competing narratives, how is it possible to discern a disclosure?

Is it akin to which truth is Truth?




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    Immaterialism 7

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    Post by dan Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:51 am

    First topic message reminder :

    This is the continuation of the Immaterialism 6 thread.......

    The original topic reminder post https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t320-immaterialism
    should be substituted here......

    Please remember to confine you dialogue to matters that are pertinent to the topic of immaterialism/disclosure.

    Thank you.
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    Post by SurfBum Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:02 pm

    This Dan guy....

    Where did he come from?

    I like him.

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    Post by dan Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:07 pm

    I come in out of the Darkness....... I might even be the thief in the night.

    Yes, I am news from nowhere...... good news, let us hope.
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    Post by SurfBum Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:11 pm

    news from nowhere = spirit of truth

    makes perfect sense
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    Post by 99 Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:14 pm

    Aaron wrote:This Dan guy....

    Where did he come from?

    I like him.


    Where did he come from? 

    An abandoned copper mine, which, at one time, thanks to his dad, minted the world's largest penny. 

    Rest assured he'll be returning to that mine when Armageddon finally arrives.
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    Post by dan Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:15 pm

    And now the Princess has gone and blown my cover.
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    Post by SurfBum Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:17 pm

    ha

    straight on

    we have to immanentize the eschaton

    the clock is ticking
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    Post by Big Bunny Love Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:20 pm

    I will say this, the voice can come on like the furies or it can come as a gentle breeze.

    I much prefer the gentle breeze on a lazy evening.

    Heaven is eternal cool summer evenings with cold beer.

    I think people from every time might agree.
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    Post by Big Bunny Love Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:23 pm

    Aaron wrote:ha

    straight on

    we have to immanentize the eschaton

    the clock is ticking

    We don’t ‘have’ to do anything.

    We are being.

    And being here is an impossible thing.

    But here we be
    Me is we
    How could it not be
    All together now...1 2 3
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    Post by Big Bunny Love Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:26 pm

    This is life...

    “a satirical, postmodern, science fiction-influenced adventure story; a drug-, sex-, and magic-laden trek through a number of conspiracy theories, both historical and imaginary”

    Now listen up little children, I’m going to tell you a story.

    Bannon tried his hand at immanitzing the eschaton because he saw, as the atheists, Islam won’t stop.

    It is THE existential crisis of the West with China and their superior culture right behind.

    “Today I learned that this preposterous phrase was Voegelin’s. He was a conservative Catholic political philosopher I’d never heard of. His work is unexpectedly interesting, and directly relevant to my current work in Meaningness.

    The eschaton is the supposed end-state of history, when everything will finally be peachy keen. “Immanent” contrasts with “transcendent”; in theology, it means “inside the universe,” whereas “transcendent” is outside. For a Catholic, the eschaton should be brought about by God, in the World To Come, after He destroys the universe. For mere mortals to attempt to immanentize the eschaton—to bring about heaven on earth—usurps God’s role, which is extremely naughty.”

    https://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-in-an-enormous-planet-sized-nutshell/

    Naughty naughty Dan.

    “So far, this is just a bunch of odd connections, of the sort often produced by frenzied Wikipedia abuse. But this got really interesting when I discovered that Voegelin’s main conclusion—which sounds wacky in his jargon—is one I came to independently three years ago.

    In my jargon, Voegelin’s obsession was the political consequences of monism. Monism is the idea that All Is One. Thus, your true self is really The Entire Universe, and also God. You can realize this through mystical illumination—hence the title of the novel.
    Voegelin called this “Gnosticism,” which he defined as:
    the enterprise of returning the pneuma [spirit] in man from its state of alienation in the cosmos to the divine pneuma of the Beyond through action based on knowledge.

    I started to understand what a disastrous mistake monism/Gnosticism is when I read David L. McMahan’s The Making of Buddhist Modernism, on an apparently unrelated topic. I gradually realized that monism accounts for much of what is wrong with current Western thought—and, like Voegelin half a century earlier, I’ve become obsessed with this. (My interest is not mainly political, though.)
    McMahan’s book led me to the German Romantic Idealists, a group of philosophers I wrote about in “Bad Ideas from Dead Germans.” I then traced the monist ideas through history and across cultures. Some other villains are the Greek philosopher Parmenides, his grand-disciple Plato, the Neo-Platonist Plotinus, Advaita Hinduism, Chinese Tathagatagarbha Buddhism, and New Zen.

    I noticed a pattern: in almost every case, monist spiritual ideas allied with young totalitarian secular state regimes, typically against a powerfully entrenched dualist priesthood. I developed a theory of how and why this happens, which I will probably eventually detail in Meaningness.

    It turns out, though, that Voegelin mostly beat me to it. He was preoccupied with understanding how and why Nazism and Communism came to power and caused such catastrophes in the mid–20th century. He noticed just the same pattern I did.
    Voegelin classed both Nazism and Communism as “Gnostic” movements that attempted to immanentize the eschaton. That is, they were founded on magical insights into Reality, and tried to end alienation by bringing about a practical utopia. He traced both back first to the German Romantic Idealists whom McMahan alerted me to. (It’s not a coincidence that in Illuminatus! the eschaton is immanentized by undead Germans—although this connection was certainly not in my mind as I wrote “Bad Ideas.”)

    Voegelin devoted his career to tracing monist/“Gnostic” ideas through history, which will probably save me spending much more time researching that. (Since I am far from being a Catholic conservative, I’ll probably disagree with him about some implications.)
    All this may still be nothing more than a collection of odd historical coincidences. However, given an apparently strong pattern, one might be concerned—or one might be an apophenic paranoid.

    Current “Spiritual But Not Religious” (SBNR) monism traces directly to the German Idealists, plus indirectly through multiple paths, and directly and indirectly also to Advaita and New Zen. It probably has all the same totalitarian political potential. (After all, modern Zen was invented explicitly, openly, and specifically as ideological support for Japanese fascism! I wrote about that in “Zen vs. the U.S. Navy.”)
    Fortunately, it seems unlikely that any country will make it the state religion. Or, at least, that would be my judgement.

    I suspect, though, that the Neo-Reactionaries may be less sanguine. In fact, they might say it has already happened. The Neo-Reactionaries apparently think Progressives have taken over the world; and SBNR monism is now the default religion of Progressives.”

    I also have recently come to suspect the above, it just didn’t smell right.

    When they say the path becomes no path, they aren’t kidding.

    Guess what Dan’s been talking about, monism and eschatons!

    The lights are blinking like a pinball on a joy ride.

    This is getting interesting.

    Like an Escher drawing.


    Last edited by smelly on Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post by SurfBum Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:33 pm

    smelly wrote:
    Aaron wrote:ha

    straight on

    we have to immanentize the eschaton

    the clock is ticking

    We don’t ‘have’ to do anything.

    We are being.

    And being here is an impossible thing.

    But here we be
    Me is we
    How could it not be
    All together now...1 2 3

    Thanks smelly, that's one way to immanentize the eschaton

    We do just what we have to do always

    We just have to stick to our protocols and stick together
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    Post by Big Bunny Love Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:42 pm

    Read the warning.

    Empty your mind.

    These zen fools won’t quit at trying to immanetize the eschaton either.

    It will be war.

    It must be.

    I don’t pick sides.
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    Post by SurfBum Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:56 pm

    not picking sides = immanetizing

    a very natural and direct route

    other appearances can apparently pick up on the scent

    there is some kind of invisible magnetic force at play

    maybe it's gravity
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    Post by Big Bunny Love Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:09 pm

    Suzuki was a tricky bastard.

    A double agent.

    How many have tried to influence religion and what people believe?

    But you just can’t keep anyone down for long.

    The East tried to heal the western heart through violence using the West’s own technology.

    Brilliant.

    They were playing a long game.

    It’s the dumb Americans who trip through it all.

    And now trump.

    They had no poetry, trump is poetry in motion.

    The Japanese lost their way in politics and culture and nationalism.

    I don’t know the way out of this concrete jungle.

    Powerful forces are at work.

    A little smelly goat though walks through it all.

    Ringing his bell, looking for human beings.

    There is no perfect true religion, philosophy or science.

    That way lies death.

    For those who desire to find, first you have to know.

    I think it was prescient of 99 to call this out the other day discussing the Kyoto school.

    Sects politics sex lies theft anger fear running through it all.

    Stinks to high heaven.


    Last edited by smelly on Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Big Bunny Love Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:09 pm

    Aaron wrote:not picking sides = immanetizing

    a very natural and direct route

    other appearances can apparently pick up on the scent

    there is some kind of invisible magnetic force at play

    maybe it's gravity

    Not picking is not picking.

    Being is being.

    Eschaton is religion.

    That’s not a game I dabble in.

    I gave up my claim to the throne.

    You are welcome to it pretender.
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    Post by SurfBum Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:15 pm

    Eschaton is eschaton

    simple as that

    there is no real throne
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    Post by Big Bunny Love Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:16 pm

    I don’t speak the language, sorry.

    Enjoy your games and make believe words.
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    Post by SurfBum Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:20 pm

    always
    you as well
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    Post by Big Bunny Love Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:25 pm

    The alienated immantize the eschaton.

    This is the path of Fascism and Marxism and Capitalism.

    I am always home.

    There are no strangers.

    No one is at war.

    I have no special power or knowledge.

    The world talks to all of us, I listen.

    I don’t do anything.
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    Post by Big Bunny Love Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:32 pm

    Don't immanentize the eschaton!

    Which simply means: "Do not try to make that which belongs to the afterlife happen here and now" or "Don't try to create Heaven on Earth."
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    Post by 99 Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:54 pm

    Smelly, your essay jumps around all over the place which is why it lacks coherency. It sounds like you're too new to this material to really explain it's concepts and then weave the whole thing into a coherent tapestry for the reader to truly understand what you are saying.

    If you really want us to understand your main points in it with crystal clear clarity..... well, you're a long way from that now but maybe a year from now you'll be able to show some improvement in this area.


    Last edited by 99 on Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post by 99 Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:00 pm

    smelly wrote:Don't immanentize the eschaton!

    Which simply means: "Do not try to make that which belongs to the afterlife happen here and now" or "Don't try to create Heaven on Earth."

    Right, that's from Wiki.
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    Post by SurfBum Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:45 pm

    99 wrote:Smelly, your essay jumps around all over the place which is why it lacks coherency. It sounds like you're too new to this material to really explain it's concepts and then weave the whole thing into a coherent tapestry for the reader to truly understand what you are saying.

    If you really want us to understand your main points in it with crystal clear clarity..... well, you're a long way from that now but maybe a year from now you'll be able to show some improvement in this area.

    This 99 is such a joker.
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    Post by Big Bunny Love Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:48 pm

    99 wrote:Smelly, your essay jumps around all over the place which is why it lacks coherency. It sounds like you're too new to this material to really explain it's concepts and then weave the whole thing into a coherent tapestry for the reader to truly understand what you are saying.

    If you really want us to understand your main points in it with crystal clear clarity..... well, you're a long way from that now but maybe a year from now you'll be able to show some improvement in this area.

    Bahahahahahaha

    The contradictions multiply

    Oh my

    Don't immanentize the eschaton!

    Which simply means:

    "Do not try to make that which belongs to the afterlife happen here and now"

    or

    "Don't try to create Heaven on Earth."

    Live here, it’s great!

    Summer Jazz and Margaritas!

    Ignore the idiots.

    They pop up everywhere.
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    Post by dan Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:54 pm

    I think smelly is just beginning to realize that this might not be a joke.  

    Welcome to the party, smelly.

    The whole purpose of the Millennium is just to immanentize the Eschaton, by opening the portals.

    Sometimes smelly is a little slow on the uptake.


    (cont.......)

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    Post by SurfBum Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:06 pm

    Lol


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