Immaterialism 3

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(cont......)

I would like someone to explain to us the Grand Deception.

If no one understands it, I suggest you pay attention......perhaps for the first time.

Guess #1: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2199691/

Cw,

I am only attached to my wife and children as they are in their eternal form.

cw,

The Grand Deception is matter and nature.  The pantheists call it maya.   They are correct that is a form of self-deception.  

However, people of the prophetic tradition put a positive spin on the Deception.  

We suppose that matter exists for our protection and education.  

Well, the pantheists somewhat agree with the last statement. We are on the wheel of karma to earn or liberation. But only to only to rid ourselves of all attachment.

The prophetic tradition provides the apotheosis of love, as the end result. Love is our attachment to the Monad. The Monad feeds on our love. This is the purpose of Creation.




(cont......)

Aaron,

I think you are lying to yourself. Either that, or we have different definitions of "attachment". What is your definition?

"If you love a flower, don't pick it up. Because if you pick it up it dies and it ceases to be what you love. So if you love a flower, let it be. Love is not about possession. Love is about appreciation." -Osho

Would I be sad if I lost my wife or children, duh, of course I would mourn such a great loss to my Small World.

I am not a robot.

However, everything I love comes around again in another form.

I am not even attached to this physical and psychic body I label 'Aaron' and that is why I am eternal.

I see the following statements to mean the exact same thing.
After I die I will be born again as a baby.
After I die a baby will be born.

This is because I see through the illusion of 'I'.

Dan,

When I connect to the feeling of truth, I sense that matter is the other side of the coin of the divine. Two sides, one coin. Does that make it two things? Hell if I know.... but that's the feeling I have when everything makes sense.... that neither exists without the other.

cw,

There are dualities, but no dichotomy.  

Theists, to avoid the errors of pantheism, tend toward the error of Deism, which poses a dichotomy between Creator and Creation.  With panentheism, we are the coCreators.  


Aaron,

This is where you and smelly miss the panentheistic boat.  The body is our temple to God......

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

(cont......)

Could there be a creator without a creation?

One implies the other. They could not exist independently of one another.

Yes, everything is One.

Two sides of one coin.

Duality of no-duality.

But it goes even further than this...

Nonduality is not two, nor one, nor nothing, nor any combination, nor all of these, nor none of these.

It is nothingness and potential coming in and out of bond an infinite number of times in a finite moment.

Welcome to wonderland, where everything is nonsense.

All that really matters is what is happening in this moment now.

Aaron,

The pantheists have no notion of Creation.  All of Creation is a temple.  They don’t get it. smelly doesn’t get it.

You tend to renounce the temporal as only a shadow of the Eternal.

This is true, but every one of those shadows points to the Eternal.

You do understand that Eternity resides in every moment...... in the shining Present/Presence, in the eternal Now.




(cont.......)

Smelly gets his Self.

What else is there to get?

It seems to me that philosophers like to cling to their 'isms' and think everything must be divided and separated into specific categories.

I cannot connect to this.

Pantheism...monism...I see no schisms.

smelly does not get himself.  

We are essentially social and historical animals...... smelly doesn’t get it.


Aaron,

You must understand the etymology of the ‘disease’ before you can cure the ‘disease’.  

Sapience provides us with the logic to analyze. We must analyze before we can synthesize.

This is the way of the Logos. smelly denies the Logos.

smelly is denial happy. Try not to fall into the trap of Denial.



(cont......)

dan wrote:Aaron,

You tend to renounce the temporal as only a shadow of the Eternal.  

This is true, but every one of those shadows points to the Eternal.  

You do understand that Eternity resides in every moment...... in the shining Present/Presence, in the eternal Now.  

I think you are saying this because of my comment about my wife and kids.

You make a valid point and you are correct.

My comment was not meant to renounce the temporal as only a shadow of the Eternal, but clearly I was beginning to slip into that confusion.

Yes, there is no separation between the eternal and the temporal.

Very good Dan, thank you for the reminder.

Wait... do I get credit for that?

Oh nevermind... my question answers itself.

dan wrote:

Sapience provides us with the logic to analyze.  We must analyze before we can synthesize.  

Analyze
Synthesize
Empathize or Euthanize ..... Dan chooses the latter.

The way to avoid the die back, to eliminate unnecessary death and suffering for humans and animals, to wake others to awake ourselves.... if this existed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxo3Jy3p8zo

This Now stuff takes practice.

I think OMF is a wonderful place of practice.
.....

I am attached to nothing but what is happening now and yet all that is happening now is but a fluid vibration and rhythm.

I am attached to no thing but I dance freely in the wind with all that is happening in my experience Now.

My dance includes my wife and children as a part of that whole dance, yes.

I am attached to them as much as a dancer is attached to his/her dance partner.

There, that feels good.

It's all just a dance with the Now.

CW, there is no such thing as awakening others.

There is only awakening you.

I have no concern about waking up anyone else because there is only I.

There is no other.

Dan, I do not know what Smelly knows or denies.

I only know confusion when I see it.

I do not see confusion in Smelly.

When I see confusion my goal is not to change into something else, I merely point it out.

History and Logos are useful tools for gardening but they are only tools like everything else.

Logos in the context of history provides a key to unlocking the door, but this key is a key I hold in my open hand.

Speaking of logos and history I am reminded of a quote.

"Be empty of worrying. Think of who created thought! Why do you stay in prison when the door is so wide open?" - Rumi

We can learn much from history about both the prison and the wide open door, then when we cut the strings of history we walk out the door understanding all of history is in the eternal Now.

Logos is useful as a constantly changing and emerging fluid tool for our imagination to imagine how it imagined and imagines itself Now.

I would like to explore how logos fits into the context of the bicameral mind.

I didn't get a change to read much about the bicameral mind yet.

Maybe that will be my next read.

Aaron,
Did you click on the link? My point is no one can truly have empathy for another. And if we could we would see the demons that exist in us and have instant compassion. You are practiced, most are not. Most would probably awake. I wasn’t implying someone could awaken another. But they would be shown the door to choose whether to walk through or not.

I cannot feel exactly what another is feeling this is true, but as a human I know what it feels like to feel sad or confused or angry or any other emotion and I can act in a manner so as to approach each individual as I would have them approach me under any given situation.

How would I have others treat me? Only exactly as they feel to treat me always.

How do I treat others? Only exactly as I feel to treat them always.

The way of walking naked in awareness and dancing in realization of IT will naturally be a walk of compassion.

It will be a dance of non judgement and non division, a great aroma of love from the flowers of complete and utter freedom and liberty.

But pretenders be warned, it will also be smelly to those who pretend they are not IT Now.

Remember this is the best Possible World. However you act or behave is always the best possible way to act or behave. Life is a great teacher. If you do something out of harmony with the flow of the ever eternal now then there will be an opportunity to learn and adjust.

I'm gonna have to learn some new words if I want to keep up with Dan.

Word of the day:

Sapience -

Wisdom, sapience, or sagacity, is the ability to think and act using knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense and insight. Wisdom is associated with attributes such as compassion, experiential self-knowledge, non-attachment and virtues such as ethics and benevolence.

You guys are funny, good discussion.

Your simple descriptions of smelly are humorous Dan and woefully inaccurate, but that’s your problem.

I have acknowledged the social aspect and history in creating yourself.

You show your ignorance, but I don’t have to defend anything, you are just not seeing clearly.

I don’t claim anything.

I shine, I live it by being.

When you shine, I’ll know you are doing your work.

Until then, please continue your humorous inaccurate assessments of others.

Why would you comment on anyone else at all?

The answer is obvious.

You have an argument where there is none.

dan wrote:

Aaron,

This is where you and smelly miss the panentheistic boat.  The body is our temple to God......

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

(cont......)

Thanks Dan. I cannot speak for Smelly, but I would agree that the body and the spirit are really one.

One could not exist without the other.

There is no eternal place you go to when your body dies. You cannot escape the Now. You were never born and will never die.

There is no difference between the eternal and the material.

Are you enjoying your little rest today Smelly as I jump in to practice?

Entertaining...

Of course the Temple is the body, duh.

We can argue about what is in the Temple.

But I know, hope you figure it out Dan, you don’t have much time left and if you don’t figure it out here, there is no there left to you.

I really do.

I have no position to defend or be offended about.

That’s where you stray into the old traps.

Nope, we aren’t playing those word games anymore in direct experience.

If you observe your experiences as scenes in a movie showing you who you are, it’s pretty clear if you aren’t tying to confirm a theory or viewpoint.

Just be love and live it.

Why do you go off on these dumb rants when we aren’t even disagreeing.