Immaterialism 5

This is the continuation of the Immaterialism 4 thread.......

The original topic reminder post https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t320-immaterialism
should be substituted here......

............

And here we go........


Speaking of frustration.......

Many a time has my temper been challenged by a certain unnamed goat, in these environs.

In very recent post of his, he has Alan Watts - When it all make sense.......

It all makes sense when you see the Tao.

In his little talk, Alan does manage to disparage poor, maligned Pangloss, who might well be a stand in for poor chicken little.


(cont........)

Dan, are you going ever get around to actually discussing immaterialism? ;-)

Since all information requires representation, the immaterial requires a physical substratum in order to exist.

Gary B,

All information requires representation...........?  

This is the point around which Gary and I have difficulty communicating.  

Now, Gary, you love to tout the utmost significance of information.

However, you are an incarnationalist when it comes to information..... information must be embodied, and so you are a dualist about information and matter.  

Folks in the prophetic/theistic tradition are, almost always, dualists in that sense.  

You are coming out of that tradition, and so you can assume a dual foundation of reality, without further ado.

The whole point of philosophy is to carefully examine our foundational beliefs..... of which we are very often oblivious.

We quickly get into matters of ontology.

You first assumption has to do with the nature/ontology of perception.

Naturally you start with a dualistic assumption.

But, Gary, you are familiar with the notion of telepathy. What are we to make of a telepathic perception, especially if we don’t resort to the rather quaint notion of mental radio?



(cont......)

dan wrote:And here we go........


Speaking of frustration.......

Many a time has my temper been challenged by a certain unnamed goat, in these environs.  

In very recent post of his, he has Alan Watts - When it all make sense.......

It all makes sense when you see the Tao.  

In his little talk, Alan does manage to disparage poor, maligned Pangloss, who might well be a stand in for poor chicken little.  


(cont........)

Bwahahaha

All things burn in the great flame in the end, including the best possible world, the truth, the MoAPS, and the Little Chicken.

GSB/SSR wrote:Dan, are you going ever get around to actually discussing immaterialism? ;-)

Since all information requires representation, the immaterial requires a physical substratum in order to exist.

IMHO,

The physical is created and maintained by the immaterial consciousness that permeates universe.

hobbit

Ok, so we already have two threads going.......

The goat thread and the Gary thread......  we could combine them, and call them the Tao of perception.  

The basic idea is that the world is only made of one stuff.  

With science, there are many stuffs.......

Space, time, matter, four forces, mathematics, etc..... and maybe mind.

Many scientists hope for a unified field theory.  

In as much was we may differ from the rest of Nature, we possess  a transcendental impulse ...... to be one with God..... as theists frame it.  

Who would deny that the impulse toward unity is the foundation for our shared humanity?



(cont.......)

One stuff.

Consciousness that scientists tend to call plasma.

travels universe flowing along birkeland currents.
These currents are dualistic in spin ( think of how DNA is portrayed).

The currents criss cross each other creating nodal points where the dualistic spin begins to accumulate and circulate.

This accumulation relative to the geometries from all around the spheroidal nodal point begins to create what We term as 3D materials.

The input geometries are constantly variable as other self similer nodal points begin to create resistances to the flow contents , thus infinite variations occur.


Fast forward to You.

hobbit

hobbit,

Ok, the squeaky wheel gets the attention........

You are very persistent about wanting to play the game of immaterialism......

Again, ok, but unless you are a smelly goat, there are rules to this game.....

Yes, you would like to unify plasma with consciousness.  

And, yes, that is one possible path toward unity.  

It is the path of science to start with somethings known, and combine them to explain something previously unknown, such as consciousness.  

But, hobbit, this is not the path that I am evangelizing here.

I would desperately wish for you, Gary, and others to understand that there is a new game in town.  

On its surface, the scientific path seems to make so much sense...... we start with the simple to explain the complex.  

How else?  

This is where smelly comes into the picture.  And, in the past, smelly has been more patient with you than I have been.  

Let’s see if we can turn over a new leaf.......

Now that smelly and I are working a little better together, I am able, hopefully, to attend to other strays, such as yourself.  
..........

And, in the process, with your patience, hobbit, I may get to rethink my own, chicken little, pedagogy........

Let’s get back to the smelly/Watts selection..... When it all makes sense......

Isn’t this what all of us are striving for? As Alan suggests, in our list of priorities, this quest for unification may well transcend all else in the (Maslovian) hierarchy of our needs.

This is supposed to be the End of all our human/hobbit strivings.

Let’s rephrase that for hobbit......

Let us consider the Vector of the vital Force.......

Some call it evolution........ and biological science claims to be very familiar with this force...... they have analyzed biological forces, right down to the very atoms of existence.



(cont.......)

Make your mind

like the clear blue sky at dawn,

unmarked by any message from man

or heaven. Continually stoking the

fire of emptiness with the breath,

you instantly incinerate

whatever appears.

-Wei Wu Wei Ching

I am reporting as I observe.
I have a unique advantage, many disadvantages.
my advantage is in in personal observation of the method I above described.
I can detect the consciousness field about anything within reason of My scale.

Trees give the best static observation, the moon gives the best displacing variation.


The tree of life...…


Formed upon a cross feature, with Fibonacci increments as consciousness implodes in duality forming the material of the tree.

Then their fabulous reversal of so called gravity reveals the nature of so called gravity.

The soft woods best demonstrate this with a reversal of spin above the equator cross feature and below same, then the water FALLS TO THE UPPER LEAVES.


THE BRANCHES AND ROUTERS DISPLAY THE FIELD SHAPE OF THE TREE.

The shape is of the consciousness field that the material forms within, a tree( plants) don't grow, they transmute into the earth and up into atmosphere at ninety degrees to wherever they are relative to a direct line to the centre of earth.

They are consciousness accumulators, as is the planet that further transmutes all such into itself.

Consciousness is the carrier of information and a seed radioing out will receive the recognised information it desires, to be as encoded in the seed.

hobbit

I never normally bother with PMs, if there is ow't to say, say it.
So grandcru, if thar has ow't to say , say it in the open.

Hobbit

Ok, hobbit,

Let’s pause right there........

You are able to perceive fields of consciousness, some might call them auras.  

And you understand that these auras often self organize into geometric/Fibonacci patterns.

You go on to suggest that the entire structure of the world may be explained by invoking such unified patterns.

This is the beauty of Nature........ until humans come along and leave their muddy/cruddy footprints everywhere.



(cont.......)

Let's just ask Hobbit a very simple question...

Why do you come to OMF?

What is your mission here?

To build the knowledge.

hobbit

Aaron,

Very good question...... let’s just cut to the chase......

Why OMF?  What is your mission here, hobbit?
........

Ok, to build the knowledge of.........?

Right now, science appears to have the hegemony on knowledge building.  

What can you offer in addition or as complementary to the scientific endeavor?  

I believe that you admit that much of your observations are subjective.  

Science makes a point of eschewing subjectivity, by relying entirely on instrumented observations.  

And this brings us right back to Gary’s problem with the nature of perception.


(cont.......)

Dan,

Humans are working at odds with nature from ignorance of natures ways.

I have children and grand children, and I now comprehend how the eternal Me will return here into a new vehicle.

Thus I feel it is My duty to reveal nature that humans may begin to operate as per it.


Sorry if this grates due to My lack of communication skills, but hobbits don't eat dictionaries.

Without knowing the basics,humans will kill this planet.

hobbit

"Instrumented observations"


Spot on.


RR Rife broke through that.


Instruments are constructed from DEAD MATERIALS.

DEAD IS AT REST WITHIN THIS PLANETS MEMORY.

RIFE WAS CLOSE TO OBSERVING LIFE.


Only by observing life can You interact with that which enables it, thus only living entities can interact.


The whole basis of current thinking and operation is from exploding the past dead, instead it is so simple to operate via the duality of spin of implosion over outrush.


We are the new kids on the block, as such, and have strayed of course due mainly to greed.


Trees and such are all in smellies zen club, very content with their all, We have the chance to be far better, to not have to murder plants and trees and chickens, but We first need to learn from the trees, how they operate, how the whole thing operates.


hobbit

dan wrote:And here we go........


Speaking of frustration.......

Many a time has my temper been challenged by a certain unnamed goat, in these environs.  

In very recent post of his, he has Alan Watts - When it all make sense.......

It all makes sense when you see the Tao.  

In his little talk, Alan does manage to disparage poor, maligned Pangloss, who might well be a stand in for poor chicken little.  


(cont........)

Smelly is my element of irreducible rascality as Alan would suggest, my Trickster archetype.

Wholeness exists in consciousness as does drama and comedy and Christ and the Devil.

Exploring one’s mind and how it works is disorienting, but very highly recommened.

I think a person can benefit through syncretic study and taking a break from faith and belief, it opens the mind and heart.

I see all this as real in the Psyche.

I can’t say I’m sorry for annoying you, it happened as it should.

Alan and I have pierced the BPW, but I’m not directly addressing anyone on OMF anymore, perhaps I’ll write about it on my thread.

Peace.

hobbit,

To start a conversation, we need to agree on something...... or agree to disagree on some basic issue.....

Here to with....... Be it resolved......

Humans do not belong on the Earth.......
........

Maybe you are to polite, hobbit, to suggest that we are interlopers, that we are an invasive species.

There is another way to phrase this....... put it into a question.....

Are we a cancer or a chrysalis, upon the Earth?

Or simply, are we a pox upon the Earth?



(cont......)

dan wrote:hobbit,

To start a conversation, we need to agree on something...... or agree to disagree on some basic issue.....

Here to with....... Be it resolved......

Humans do not belong on the Earth.......


.

As a hobbit, I agree, but here they are causing havoc.


Hence they need to learn the basics.


Religions were used to control the little so and so's.
Now they try to utilise science, but it's flawed into a death spiral.


There's no need for de population like some arrogant super rich morons are pursuing.

no need for wars, or vaccines.


hobbit

Yes, hobbit, we agree that we need to learn the basics.  

What are the basics?

Here are the basic questions, hobbit.......

Who are we........ from whence do we come, and whither do we go?  

Do you have anything to say about these questions?  

Before we can go any further, you need to address yourself to these questions.  

Otherwise you come on as a clashing of cymbals....... full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.  

You say that we need to learn the patterns of nature, presumably so that we may better fit into Nature.  


3:30.........

You suggest, hobbit, that we belong to nature.  Maybe.

Maybe not.  

There is no point in going further with a discussion, if you are not open minded to considering the possibility that we do not belong to nature.  

And, hobbit, who/what does nature belong to? Have you ever even wondered?

If nature is not a part of anything else, is it just an accident?

And what do you make of the vital Force? Is the force with us or against us?

And here’s a big one for you, hobbit.......

Is there any intentionality in nature?

You tells us what the world is made of. Is there anything in any of your descriptions of what is, to suggest what should be?

You suggest that we must learn to conform to existing patterns.

Ok, you may believe in Evolution. Isn’t Evolution all about breaking existing patterns, about finding new ways to exploit nature.


(cont......)

dan wrote:full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. 

Haha nice Dan! I'm glad you still keep an eye on that padded room Aaron built for me. You might even see that there's a method to the madness, still what is posted there is directed at no one in particular and yet everyone.

dan wrote:Yes, hobbit, we agree that we need to learn the basics.  

What are the basics?

Here are the basic questions, hobbit.......

Who are we........ from whence do we come, and whither do we go?  

Do you have anything to say about these questions?  

Before we can go any further, you need to address yourself to these questions.  

Otherwise you come on as a clashing of cymbals....... full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.  

You say that we need to learn the patterns of nature, presumably so that we may better fit into Nature.  


3:30.........

You suggest, hobbit, that we belong to nature.  Maybe.

Maybe not.  

There is no point in going further with a discussion, if you are not open minded to considering the possibility that we do not belong to nature.  


(cont......)

Your really good at creating fences whilst in motion.

My senses say that humans were transported to Earth, for others agenda.

Nature is of universe, and anything will eventually transmute to suit the condition it is exposed to.

I am sure that Earth was a garden of Eden , as such, and along came humans, or a form of humans that has colonised the place.

The agenda of others entails the slave population raping the planet of specific elements, and boy are humans good at this?

But with the evolvement comes an awakening.

Maybe You could add Your thoughts instead of just asking ?

hobbit

hobbit,

..... add my thoughts, you say.  

I have been adding my thoughts from day one.

You, however, have proven to be a very persistent and hard headed little hobbit.  

That is why, finally, I am getting in your face, oh, furry one.

After a severe session of water boarding, you give away the store......

...... maybe we were seeded here on someone else’s agenda!!

This has been my point exactly, the whole time.  

You give us a lot of lip about Fibonacci...... but so what?  

Fibonacci was not the one who put us here.  

In order to understand how to get of our predicaments, we need to understand how we got into them.  

Fibonacci is telling us nothing about this.  He seems only to be an obfuscation, on your part.  

It’s amazing how much time humans spend trying to avoid the serious questions.  

Why, then, finally, were we put here........?

Many folks suggest that our purpose here is to be fruitful and multiply........ and why?  

Either because it says so in the bible, and/or because we can’t think of anything better to do.  

Colonize the planet...... colonize space.......

You are suggesting, as is every ufologist, that somebody beat us to it.  They got here first.  


4:20...........

You stated previously that your mission was to build knowledge.

Does science build knowledge? They claim to.

Scientists claim to be doing this. Are they?

Well, there is no disputing that scientists are in the business of collecting facts.

Many ufologists are also in the business of collecting facts.


(cont.......)