Immaterialism 6

First topic message reminder :

This is the continuation of the Immaterialism 5 thread.......

The original topic reminder post https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t320-immaterialism
should be substituted here......

Please remember to confine you dialogue to matters that are pertinent to the topic of immaterialism/disclosure.  

Thank you.  

............

One way to turn over a new leaf, is the review the SEP entry on Idealism, especially this section...... The Fate of Idealism in the Twentieth Century https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/idealism/#FatIdeTweCen

The article points to the fact that the philosophical tendency never went away, even amongst academics, in the last century, it didn’t even have to go underground....... it simply adopted a much lower profile, along with a new terminology.  

The simple fact is that materialism and dualism never made a lick of sense.  

Someone pointed out that it was a bit of a jump from managing magic to chaos magic, but maybe not so much.



(cont........)

Dan, I don't have anything to add.

I'll leave you now.

No thoughts or books or words have anything to do with Awareness.

I don't know what Awareness is or Consciousness and never could really talk about it.

You just be what you are naturally and no discussion is required.

Peace.

Thank you, smelly. You be good, and take care of yourself, etc........

You too man, have a good life.

I liked speaking with you and Aaron.

I found my flow and you guys were good companions on the path to no path.

The rest of these morons...

Meow

Smelly, you've inspired me. Goats are very photogenic! I'm getting a big blow up of this photo to frame and hang in my living room. 



Will check first if there's already a poster of it somewhere.

The photographer is Kevin Horan... here's his site: https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2017/jul/10/gorgeous-goats-in-pictures-kevin-horan-chattel

Beautiful photography!

I like it.

As you absorb its energy...be the scapegoat...aaaauuummm

I have a dozen pictures of goats and statues and art all around my place.

Smelly was a fun character to create and breath life into.

So 99, be honest, you are really AP or Buddy, right?

I can't keep the names and accounts straight.

I like this one too! 


Why on Earth would you think I'm AP? It's me... 99. sheesh!

P.S. Out the door. Will be back later.

He'll be back, they always come back!

Yes Dan, God forbid we talk about disclosure on the disclosure forum.

When nothing is said, he should go to bed, or perhaps just fall on his head. Instead the Disclosure fills up his cup, and then if by magic he makes something up. To those seeking Disclosure is seems like a fine gift, despite being fake, it gives them a lift.

Hello Dan.

My hiatus has been a long one. I hope to follow this thread more regularly without getting too distracted with other things life throws at me.

Hello Earthling,

How are things down there?  

In return, you might ask how things are going at the palace.........

It seems that, once again, smitty is being provoked.  

It seems that everything here is fake news, or.......

What is the probability that it’s not?  

What is the probability that the Hive exists, etc, etc........?

This depends, doesn’t it?  Depends on the likelihood of immaterialism...... on the likelihood that Earth is not just the third rock from the sun.  Go figure.........

Foot’s thinly veiled message to me is to step up or step down....... take a late retirement, smith.......

Over my dead body.....

Is this any way to run a Disclosure?  

It must be the best possible way...... or we are the third rock.  

IOW, the heat continues to heat up.  

Suppose that foot is connected with the admin...... ours is a fairly delicate situation.  

The entire Brazil incident would have been a rock through someone’s window.  If foot came on here, and backed me up........ game over..... but, hey, it’s just getting started.  

Here’s the real provocation.......

Grant recently ran a post from this blog, on one of his blogs...... I haven’t been able to find it.  

If foot was going to abide with his protocol...... endless denial, now was the time for him to step up.  He did, I do......

Is this any way to run a Disclosure?  I submit that it’s the only way.  

Any suggestions......?  Don’t all shout at once.  


12:20..........

Besides, this is just a closet drama........ small closet, small world.  

If you want a personal Disclosure...... well, things can be complicated.  You can’t just go down to the store for a loud speaker.  There are a plethora of social/interpersonal considerations.  

Would this make chicken little a cosmic big shot?

That is a significant problem with personalism.  

So what do we do about it?  

This is what we do about...... we hide in plain sight...... until the heat heats up...... then we ride off.  But nobody’s in a big hurry, are we.   We don’t come this way again.  Probably we can play it again, and this may be a replay.  

So we do come this way again?

It’s complicated. That’s all they’ll tell me.



...... OTL.........

Where is Foot's thinly veiled message? Can you share please?

I don’t want to insult your intelligence...... but it’s right in front of your nose.

Here, Earthling

It's good advice for some

Still winding down

Most of us are now on the same page

Foot Mann wrote:When nothing is said, he should go to bed, or perhaps just fall on his head.

Right in front of my eyes~ sleepy eyes for sure. I had a long discussion with a younger person last night on the subject of disclosure. This generation is for sure more on the same page than most before.

No sleep so I came to the thread after talking to this young truth seeker to say hello and find out where we are in this long saga.

Yes FM really has a way of throwing out some sound observations that make me go., "hummmm."

But they seem designed to bring us closer while distracting us from straight forward thinking. Is this his intention? I dont think he thinks disclosure is a lie, and im certain he doesnt think you'll ever give up on this subject.

We are both ancient enemies and old friends.

However it's time for others to speak and to play, if they can ever find their spine.

Ok, Earthling, you’re not as dumb as you look.

Dont think just because Im beautiful that i must be dumb.

In this thread I hope that we will be able to consider the consequences of immaterialism.  

Immaterialism implies monism.  

It could easily be construed that monism implies fascism, as opposed to pluralism.  

But what is the Monad?  We know, strongly suspect, that it can only be love.  

Love is not an object....... it is decidedly inter subjective.  

The greatest distinction between humans is arguably gender.  Few would argue that gender is not among the strongest provocateurs of love.  

What about inter species love?  Some might call it ecology...... or symbiosis.  That is my kind of monism...... e pluribus unum.  

How does immaterialism promote, or is it concomitant with, this Unum?  

The Monad is necessarily personal, first..... interpersonal, second.  

Is there an impersonal side of the Monad?  

I’m tempted to say...... not.  It can only be more personal or less personal.  

You give personalism an inch, and it will take a mile.  

There is a Platonic/Plotinist component to immaterialism, necessarily.

It is more than a little ironic that materialists are more decidedly emanationistc than are many immaterialists.  

Anyone for the Big Bang?  

However, there are still diehard materialists who support the Steady State.  

I don’t know, but the Steady State seems almost unAmerican.  

It is decidedly mystical.  What is Eternity, if it is not a Steady State?  

What is the best possible world, if it is not the marriage of the temporal and eternal?  That’s an interesting gender specificity.  Just don’t ask me which is which.  But, now that you ask, I’d have to opine that temporality is in the precinct of the female.  


1:40(ft/gmt-3).........

So, what is the half-life of materialism......?  

I’d want to say one year, but that half-life has proven to have a very persistent tail.  

With donny, we are seeing the last hurrah of materialism.  

With the demise of the Protestant work ethic, the center is not holding.  The center of the world shifted from Rome to London.  

Is New York holding?  Is Beijing taking over?  Beijing is no more likely to take over than was Tokyo......  and perhaps less.  

What can supplant New York, if not the Queen...... as in queen bee?  

If ours is a personal world, there can be none other.  

As some noted of Aaron, am I obsessed with the Princess?  

Well, if truth be known, I am obsessed with that idea.  

It’s too good to not be true.  And what better Princess in what better place?  I ask you.  

You might even say that I am beSoTted with the Princess, if this is not just the third rock from the Sun.  

So might be donny, if truth be told.  

If the deluge cannot be held off...... ShangriLa beckons.  

The floodgates are opening.  Who will be able to hold their thumb in the dike..... in the portal?  Some might suppose I was doing a bang up job, but don’t underestimate the subversiveness of chicken little.  The global intelligence community is pervasive.  There might be a small chicken claw in that door.  Just saying.......

Maybe even a foot, if this is not the third rock...... anyone for a holodeck?  

If this were a holodeck, can anyone come up with a better scenario?  Me thinks it would be above my pay grade.  

Yes, this is not unlike the efficient slaughter house, where everything thing is used..... except the squeals...... but, here, the squeals are the piece de resistance.  

I wonder where the Mueller team is with all this?  When will that shoe drop?  

It is rumored that donny will garner a second term.  Will that be with or without an acknowledged apian assist?  AAA is another way to think of Disclosure.  

Disclosure would just be another variation on politics as usual.  This variation would have been beyond my pay grade, three years ago.  

This is not to say that there will be no more surprises in the Disclosure scenario.  


(cont.......)

Obsessed with the Princess am I, at first meeting I saw her fly, decades later she chose to stop by, like a bee she flew so high, with the Discloser she is an ally.

@Dan: This post has got me digging down some utterly incomprehensible philosophical ideas haha. One that I found to be interesting is Apeirotheism. I wonder if that'd fit in with the monad?

RB,

Apeirotheism........  is not too shabby a term..... thank you.  

Recall that Greek rationalists abhorred the Apeiron...... the unbounded.  

And we still do, that’s why we had to invent the best possible small world.  

With this minor exception........

‘Twas the night before Christmas, when all through the house, not a creature....... hardly even an artiodactyl..... was stirring......

Now we live only a few hundred yards from the beltway, and are quite accustomed to the early morning hum, but, well, with six Kuwaiti engineering cousins across the street, with their six finely ‘tuned’ GT mustangs, it takes a little extra getting used to.  

I wonder if they didn’t get the fracking memo..... it’s gonna be hard to frack the sand..... it comes pre-fracked.  Hey, over here we’re still not quite living on the fumes, yet...... we are working on it, though.  

And speaking of free energy....... how do we explain to our galactic commander in Utah that there is no galaxy?  I don’t even think that Laughlin has got the memo.

Last I checked, the Milkyway was made of green cheese, and the Earth made of Swiss cheese.  Joe Queso should know that.  

It’s the global memo that we’re working on.  There might even be a gotomeeting, later in the week.  I wonder if Brazil will come up?  How was the Queso in Brazil, and where was his vehicle, we’d still like to know?

This cheese business is all about ontology......

Ontology, like everything else, is relative...... slam your fist into a rock..... and you get the idea..... that’s how you learn about rock, paper and scissors.  

There is no absolute hardness...... no absolute nothing...... love being a possible exception.  

Mathematics is hard to bend...... that’s what mathematicians love about it.  

I would suggest that twin prime conjecture might tell us something about hardness...... but that is a stretch.  

But that is what logic and the Logos are all about..... when to bend, and not getting our knickers in a knot.  

At the large hadron collider, why did they not suppose that the supply of particles would run out?  Did they not get the Anthropic memo?  

They’ve got it now.  

But the primes..... they don’t run out, not even the Twins.  

I’m not sure I believe that, being a personal constructivist.  

I’m not an apeirotheist, either.  

Love is the only thing that can’t run out....... it’s just that we can’t sell it at the pump, try though donny might.  

Has donny got the memo.....?

He’s not acting like it.  He acting like he’s running on fumes..... go figure.  


11:15(gmt-3)............

Why do we personalists abhor the apeiron?  

We like to know which way is up.  We like to know where the love comes from.  

But isn’t it supposed to be interpersonal...... untethered..... free floating?  

Yes, I’ve heard of free love, but.......

Well, mathematicians love mathematicians just because it is tethered...... to the primes.  

And what are the primes tethered to?  

They are tethered to one.  A certain artiodactyl would have us suppose they are tethered to zero.  I don’t think so.  I don’t believe in zero, any more than I believe in a quantitative infinity.  

I do appreciate the concept of infinity, but that doesn’t mean that I have to materialize it.  Our minds are infinite.  We are quite capable of entertaining the concept of infinity.  

The Monad is infinite, necessarily....... everything is tethered to it, necessarily.  

Every chip off the Monadnock (sic) is necessarily infinite in the same fashion.  If you look at all us chips, you might even wax apeirotheistic.  

But don’t be fooled, my friends.  10^10 may be our magic number.  

Yes, there is still a clamor at the admissions office.  But, this is more of a reflexive clamor....... just saying.... who needs an extra bouncing bambino, if you have a finely tuned mustang...... or a portal, maybe?

We could always chat about this at the gotomeeting.  

Is it portal time for us Tiny-tears..... and for donny, too.  He’s looking kinda tired.  Can’t we just let him walk...... into the sunset?  

At the next meeting, we’ll need a song sheet.  That’s kinda what this is...... but some folks never get the memo.  

Was Brazil a game changer?  We’d have to ask Sgt Santos Lopez.  He should talk to Lais.  

Or we can just ask ourselves...... what the heck is going on..... on this third rock from the Sun.  

Are we a monkey’s uncle, or a chip off Monadnock.  

Are those our only choices?  That’s pretty much covers it.

And what’s that j-guy doing on Monadnock..... just who does he think he is? Can’t he get in line like the rest of us?

I don’t know if they have installed a j-bar on Monadnock, but maybe they should. I’ve heard it’s the easiest way to the top..... the Mahayana..... but don’t take my word for it. I’m not an ayahuasca expert, after all.


(cont.......)

Dan,

Will the potential Gotomeeting be open for OM to attend and listen in?

As for love, I can only opine as the imaginary 'me' that there is no doubt that when we change the way we look at things, the things we look at change, especially if we get a little help as you have suggested.

I recall watching Tom Campbell and Bruce Lipton 'in conversation' on Youtube a few years back and Tom was very clear "regardless of the question the answer is love"

I like that answer.

As for Donald, I have been wondering Dan if he is familiar with Sagan's warning and as such doing his bit to 'save us from ourselves..'

donny has definitely turned over a page in American politics.  I don’t know if it’s his muse or his ego, or if he would know the difference.  

After donny, it’s the deLuge..... Nimitz and all.  Is there a portal big enough for the Nimitz?  

Maybe we’re about to find out.

I like that....... regardless of the question........ thanks.

The GtM....... if it’s like the others, it would be a last minute posting.  

Things are a bit up in the air, aren’t they?  


6.........

Perception, again..........

I plead for direct perception..... I don’t put much stock in photons as conveyors of truth, or of anything else, for that matter.  

Photons not conveyors of energy?  Do raindrops not convey water?  

I don’t believe in water as a material substance..... not being a materialist.  Yes, I have issues with atomism, not being a reductionist.  

And what the heck is matter, if not composed of atoms?  

Matter is logically composed of atoms...... conceptually.  

Are not seeds atoms of life?  Where would we be without them?  The Monad is a seed, is it not?  

This could be a reductio ad absurdum, or is it a clue?  

The concept of personhood might help us out......

Persons are alleged to be irreducible..... as are souls and selves.  

But the Monad is also a simple/irreducible.  


9:45...........

A basic claim of the BPWH is that the Monad is also a person.

This fact requires not the downgrading of our concept of the Creator, but rather an upgrading of our concept of the Person.


(cont.......)