Immaterialism 3

First topic message reminder :

[The original topic reminder post https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t320-immaterialism
should be substituted here... ]
............



(cont......)

Nope...still overcomplicating it.

All that matters is what’s happening now.

Flow effortlessly in True Will.

Do not self analyze your actions or try to make sense of it, just flow effortlessly and enjoy the ride.

Of course you can ground yourself in family or whatever you choose but best to always be flowing effortlessly in True Will and the Way and let it take you wherever it sees fit.

Surrender completely and just let go of the rudder.

Be a feather dancing in the wind.

Alright, enough self analysis. New software uploaded.

Rebooting in 1 2 3.

Ahhhhhh

Wei Wu Wei is the only way.

Aaron,

In the midst of a paradigm shift, all paradigms may come to seem equally valid.  Truth becomes merely subjective.  It may be the best possible or the worst possible world.

But, with materialism v immaterialism, we have a veritable gestalt switch.  It’s hard to keep from flip flopping.   Many will suggest that truth is something merely subjective.  

With immaterialism, truth is intersubjective.  With materialism, truth is objective.  In between, everything will be up for grabs.  Aaron is betwixt and between.  It is wild ride.  I would not wish it upon an enemy.  Maybe smelly and I can talk him down.  Take it easy, Aaron.  


Ron is arranging for BobK and me to be on Paul Price’s radio show.  We would be debating, but the topic remains unclear.  


Back to Aaron’s unenviable situation.... state of mind......

If we have no free will, does that mean that we are merely along for the ride, as Aaron suggests?

I’ve suggested that we still have freedom of imagination. This much freedom is not to be denigrated.

But still, it seems that Aaron is correct...... we are mere spectators.... imagining what we will.



(cont......)

Haha,

Thanks Dan. I'm an expert at the wild ride now. It always happens when I turn on self analysis mode because that's when I discover that I am really an illusion and paradox. I'm also really good at getting off the wild ride instantly. I barely remember what happened yesterday evening...it seems a distant memory already.



I guess I'm just searching for something to cling to because I'm not used to free floating. You spend your whole life clinging to things and all of a sudden you let go and you are a feather floating in the wind. It can be scary at first, but only because you aren't used to it. You look down and get vertigo until you don't. You relax into it and it becomes a beautiful free floating dance in the wind. You also get used to the fact that you are dead and alone with nothing but a dream....that can be scary also, to realize you are alone and dead.

In the end it really is a beautiful dance in the wind and there is nothing really to be scared of.

Anyway, sorry to interrupt the regular programming. Back to whatever it is we talk about here normally.

Small Worlds, Best Possible Worlds, Immaterialism and what not...

Straight on.

Yes Dan, I believe we are just along for the ride. Buckle up and keep your hands and feet inside the ride at all times!

Yep, we are spectators imagining what we will.

With our imaginations, we are free to love or not.  That is our #1 existential question.  Yes, we could go through the motions....... too many of us do.  

With our external actions sealed in glass, as it were, our inner lives, our inner light takes on all the more significance.  

But here’s the challenge.......

Our ability to touch the other person’s soul becomes our ultimate freedom.  

Even a negative impact may seem better than no impact at all.  

Can this be right? Does true love, freely given, not impact the external world. Something is not adding up.



(cont.......)

I have to say, anyone else who takes the path to IT, do yourself a favor and get yourself a good pair of headphones and listen to good music to help you stay relaxed through oblivion.

For me music has helped keep me sane through the journey, especially classic rock from before my time. I don't know what it is about music from the 70s but it is magical.

We are riders on the storm.

We’re getting into rather deep spiritual waters, here, Aaron.......

What if we learn that we’re not even free to love? That may be the case, sports fans.

When we smile, the world smiles with us. When we cry, we cry alone.

Maybe what we’re saying is that God is love. Hate is love’s shadow. When we love, we are being one with God. The illusion of separation is overcome, temporarily.


(cont......)

Yes Dan, our ability to touch the other person's soul is something that gives us great pleasure along the ride, but beware of missions and expectations. Float freely doing not-doing and move effortlessly with your True Will and you will touch many souls along the journey.

These other souls are really your souls though. We are one soul family, and at the very center we are one spirit with many souls.

Note: I use the terms Body, Soul, and Spirit as is defined by the gnostics.

http://www.theforbiddenreligion.com/body-soul-and-spirit.htm

Alright, Aaron, you have described..... even explained the small world.  

This is what Princess saw the other day, but she wasn’t able to sustain the thought.... the imagining.

Why should it be so hard?  We need full faith and trust.  The world seems often unkind to such feelings.

The ugly facts destroy the beautiful illusion. The world is a b*tch?



(cont......)

In a non-dual reality there has to be some free will somewhere. There has to be both free will and no free will, they imply each other.

This is why I like the Princess' description of free will....she calls it a choose your own adventure book.

This could be interpreted many ways though.

When are the points of choice? Is it only at the moment of our physical birth that we have a choice?

Is it that we are constantly jumping dimmcensions of reality and we come to moments in our life after a death and resurrection of our old 'self' that we upload the new software after a paradigm shift and until our next big paradigm shift we are really just floating along without free will?

If you are Smelly you have finished your paradigm shifts maybe and have uploaded your last software update, which is based on the formula of no formula, just free floating in Free Will forever.

It's the shift to root node access.

After that there is no longer free will, there is only True Will, which is Love under Will.

In the end, free will is a mystery to me. It feels like there is not much free will though, but there has to be some somewhere. If there wasn't free will we wouldn't know what having no free will was, they both have to exist somehow.

We aspired to life and to experiencing ourself an infinite number of times in a finite moment. That aspiration is our free will and it is the river of Love we are all riding along without free will.

Ya, the river of love was created out of free will and we are constantly riding on it, but we have no way to get off the river and no choice as to where it will take us on the journey maybe.

So we are riding on the river of free will without a choice. Haha.

It's another paradox.

Our free will is to know ourselves and that began long before we were physically born into the world and will continue long after our physical body dies. Individually, we are just along for the ride that free will initiated with the big bang.

Who knows...

I don't, but I'll go with that for now.

Don't think about it too much...

Just enjoy the ride.



Pictures help.

I think we had free will to create the river, which is Love under Will.

Then we jumped in trusting it would take on the best possible ride and we float along now at the circumference of the wheel of time. Like everything else we have both things at the same time. We are alive and dead, we float freely in the river of free will or love under will, but we have no individual choice as to where that is leading us, at least in terms of our imagined physical and physic individual self.

Of course the river moves in a helix, spiraling through the cosmos eternally without beginning or end.

I like your terminology, Aaron.  

You may be seeing through the fog that is still obscuring my vision.  Now I’m trying to catch up......  

I would be inclined to substitute True will for free will, in most cases.  Is that not possible.....?

I’m a monist. There is only one will...... in the beginning and in the end.

In between, there is some topsy turvy. In these cataracts, we seek to align ourselves with the True will. Our alignment tool is love.



(cont.......)

True Will is a term that comes from Thelma.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Will

Yes, I would say True Will and Free Will are interchangeable, ultimately it is Love under Will, the aspiring to know and experience ourselves. Our only free will is our True Will. I think True Will is free will from the perspective of the entire cosmos. It is the effortless and spontaneous flow of the universe, of the Tao, which really is You all along. You are IT.

This is deep stuff...

Maybe Smelly can simplify it for us when he gets online later.

dan wrote:
I’m a monist.  There is only one will...... in the beginning and in the end.  

In between, there is some topsy turvy.   In these cataracts, we seek to align ourselves with the True will.  Our alignment tool is love.

I like this. Keeps it simple.

Love is trusting the flow.

When we don't trust it we are trying to swim against the current but it will get us nowhere. It will just give us sore arms and legs. This resistance is where suffering, greed, and pain come from.

Love is letting go of fear and trusting. The result is the savoring the pleasure of the passage of time.

I think in the end all concepts and ideas are all imagined just like the material world is just our imagination.

We are just imagining ourselves and we imagine whatever brings us the most peace and pleasure about ourselves, but every thought and image is but a figment of our imagination in the end.

What a lovely dream....

Do what though will and enjoy the ride in peace and happiness.

93

Wu wei

Well, Aaron........

wwjd......?  Wu Wei.....?  

I don’t know about that.  The j-guy was bound to be nailed.  He did not fight it.  

Speaking truth to power...... Is that going with the flow?  

I’m not so sure about that.  

If your compass is working, it may be telling you to go left, when everyone is going right.  

Wu Wei is something very subjective.  Taking the interpersonal, historical view is also valid, particularly if it seems to come naturally.  

And what about the Evangel? What about the good news? Do you and I have good news, or not?

That’s why I’m here. I like to think it is, anyway.

We are here to see through the miasma of Scientism..... see through the Grand Deception.

This is not non action..... nor is it free will.



(cont......)

Wu Wei means not to fight it. Wu Wei means going with the flow effortlessly and spontaneously.

Jesus was a master of Wu Wei.

Wu Wei led me to the cross.

To be completely free floating in Wu Wei and in True Will you have to die many times on the cross until there is nothing left to die.

Then you become free at last.

When you yourself align completely with True Will after killing yourself on the cross, then you finally have your own individual free will and are not subject to the control of the ego.

Or maybe you are always subject to the control of the ego but it moves from the small resistant confused ego to the higher ego aligned with True will.

I’m not sure smelly realizes that.

He makes a big fuss about the j-guy.  

Should we blame it all on Paul?  Was Paul not going with the flow, also?

There may be different flows..... different strokes for different folks.  

The j-guy may not have been perfect, but he aligned himself with perfection, as none other. He became the traffic cop of history.

Buddha.....? Woo wee. Am I being fair? Someone had to get nailed. Buddha was a bit too slippery.



(cont......)

Dan, do you believe in an actual historical Jesus that was born from a virgin and who could walk on water and raise people from the dead?

Blah blah blah

Bahahaha

Aaron,

I’m a Jesus freak, not a bible freak.


smelly,

blah, blah, blah...........?

Will you permit some of us to attempt to speak truth?

I’ve noticed that you’ve done a fair amount of talking, in your time.




(cont.......)

Dan, I am Jesus.

I am also Buddha.

I am the Christ Buddha.

You seem to be trying to talk yourself into something Aaron.

You can’t answer this.

It’s a detente.

Nope, not talking myself into anything.

Just talking, that's all.

I'm just talking to myself about my self.

And smelly keeps trying to talk himself out of something?


Aaron,

Neither one knew of the other.

Suppose they could come back.......

Is that how you are modeling yourself?

That’s what I do. smelly doesn’t like it.

.

It’s a detente.

Everything is happening.

Only each of us knows if we have realized or not.

We should push and pull and sift each other.