Immaterialism 6

First topic message reminder :

First topic message reminder :

This is the continuation of the Immaterialism 5 thread.......

The original topic reminder post https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t320-immaterialism
should be substituted here......

Please remember to confine you dialogue to matters that are pertinent to the topic of immaterialism/disclosure.  

Thank you.  

............

I believe I found the fatal flaw in Nashida’s metaphysics of Zen (absolute nothingness)......... https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kyoto-school/#NisTopAbsNot

His understanding of ontology includes both the subjective and objective at the foundational level.  One could argue that this was merely a contamination from the West, but I believe the problem goes deeper than that..... historically.  

There is in Zen a considerable emphasis on (subjective) phenomenology, more than you find in the West, outside of Heidegger.

The basic problem in Zen is its inability to embrace personalism. There is no theistic or panentheistic basis for Zen to fall back on.



(cont.......)

Damn it Dan, you just had to make me open the fucking mystery door didn’t ya?!

Now I have to go find all the fookers and put them back in the jar.

Let me explain how it works.

You look into the crystal ball and the crystal ball will exact a price.

It will fucking look back at you.

Mischief.

Random chaos.

There is the possibility we booted up new Oracles that once went silent.

We may have made it through the storm.

We just might have ignited them.

For it took ignition.

Now they speak from goats and chickens.

It came to us.

We got it done.

That’s how you do it bitches.

Mic drop.

Now that’s Magickal thinking.

Ignore me.

I do.

Stay looz.

dan wrote:I believe I found the fatal flaw in Nashida’s metaphysics of Zen (absolute nothingness)......... https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kyoto-school/#NisTopAbsNot

His understanding of ontology includes both the subjective and objective at the foundational level.  One could argue that this was merely a contamination from the West, but I believe the problem goes deeper than that..... historically.  



(cont.......)

Dan you didn’t find anything in any book about Zen

Silly muppet.

Free your mind and your ass will follow.

Open up your funky mind and you can fly.

99 wrote:

Open up your funky mind and you can fly.

I understand, smelly that you and your Zen comrades are bibliophobes.  

I can sympathize to an extent........ but there are limits......

But there may be a logos, and if there is we need to track it down...... just for our sanity, if nothing else.  

And you are also a logophobe.  

Zen, in fact, takes the Logos to be an object.  It is not, and that is the first corollary of their original fatal mistake.  

By cutting themselves off from the Source, they have cut themselves off from the vital force.  

Yes, it is interesting to compare the Zen notion of nothingness with the Western notion of Being.  There is really no difference.  

What is Being, beyond the notion of beings?  

It is the same as the Zen no-thing-ness.  Check it out.  

Yes, smelly, there may be an idea or two, still in books, that you cannot afford to neglect, if you place any value on your sanity.  

You may not, but have mercy on the rest of us, here, please.  

Zen does not know how to let persons be themselves. They always have to be embedded in an objectifiable matrix. I don’t believe you would for such confinement, but that is where your Zen masters end up placing you.

You had better start running, smelly. They are up no good.

Perhaps your old friend on the riverbank is a trickster, after all.

Better check it out........



(cont......)

You don’t need any word from any book.

Being is Being.

The Old Man said so.

Books about Zen are just books about Zen.

You are Zen.

It’s sitting in silence.

Now write a book about it.

Ha!

There is a written tradition and that’s all it is.

There are some I read.

Joshu, Cold Mountain, Bodhidharma and Suzuki.

There is a lot of religious infighting.

That’s a joke for outsiders.

The Masters fart on your silly intelligence.

Being is Being.

It is beyond thinking.

If your little monkey brain can’t handle that...

Tough shit.

Get the shit out of your head and try again.

Yes, sir, master smelly.

The last I checked, the only beings were persons.

You might want to check that out for yourself.

Don’t just take my word for it. I’ve been wrong before.

Shit in

Shit out

You have a lot to unlearn dodo bird.

If you were here i’d spit in your face!

There is nothing to learn.

It was much easier for me than it will be for you!

Ha!

Eat your face.

Dan wrote:Zen, in fact, takes the Logos to be an object. 

One needs to pass through the eye of the needle to recognize that sentiment as an error... the Logos as an object.

Only thinking about Zen takes Logos!

You are a blind bat Dan!

Logos is not supreme.

It’s my bitch, like you are.

Ha!

I spit in your face AGAIN!!!

99,

And try telling that to master smelly........


And, smelly,

Please pass the hanky.....

Sit quietly for 60 minutes and give the cosmos a fucking break talking space monkey.

God has asked me to pass that request along to you.

Without persons there would be no Zen

There is no Zen.

There are only apparently persons.

Lol

Says who?

Dan is talking about nothing.

Jokes on him.

I’m no one.

Ignore me.

Dan fell into the first Zen trap.

Talking about Zen is only words about nothing.

Virginia is for lovers

The only thing to be said about Zen, is the practice called Zen. There are several ways to practice Zen.

What happens beyond thought can’t be spoken of.

The practice is only a temporary building.

A place to be here.

There is no self, no suchness, nothing to practice without a body that practices, a place of practice, a world that allows for practice and the historical Buddha, now a collection of symbols and only symbols.

Every generation can follow the practice and realize for themselves using their own symbols.

Pepe and Kermit

So smelly is on here, criticizing the prophetic tradition, because it is actually about something.  

smelly would much prefer us prophets to be more like him, and go on about nothing.  

Being is another flavor of nothingness.

Being refers to what all things have in common, which is nothing..... allegedly.  

But don’t all things have existence in common?  

And what, pray tell is pure existence, if it is not the existence of something?

And why is there something rather than nothing?  

And what is the ground of existence?  

I claim that the ground of existence is potential existence.  

And how does being differ from existence?  

Is being a noun or a verb...... in its essence?  To be or not to be?  

And which comes first...... essence or existence?  

Then personalism comes along and stands ontology on its head.  

Understand that science is an interminable soliloquy against personhood.  

I’m gonna terminate it, personally, with or without the help of Ron and the Princess.  

Zen is an interminable soliloquy against personhood.  I’m gonna terminate it, personally, with or without smelly’s kind assistance.  

Zen makes no reference to objects.  In that regard, it is the antithesis of science.  It is the complement of science.  

And it makes no reference to persons, either.  Hmmm.......

Personhood is the 800# gorilla behind the curtain of Zen.  

Science and Zen play an interminable shell game....... person, person, who’s got the person?  

I’m gonna terminate it, personally.  

smelly’s gonna be my first victim.  

Just call me..... Terminator smith.  

chicken little said the sky was falling.  Now we know where it’s gonna fall.  Right on smelly’s little noggin.  

Let’s ask smelly...... what is the aim of Zen?  

Some might say that the aim of Zen is the perfection of personhood.  

smelly might say that it is the elimination of personhood.  

But the only thing that can eliminate personhood is another person.  

Or an eschatologist...... IOW.  

Hey, it looks like smelly came to the right place, after all.  


11:20.......

smelly fancies himself to be the one-eyed, one-horned, flyin' purple people eater.........

Hey, smelly........ eat me!  

Ch'an Buddhism supports a narrative view of personhood, a stance that denies the ontological distinction between 'self' and 'other.' Instead, the person represents the whole dynamic confluence of characters and actions in the world. Distinctions such as self and other, outside and inside, operate only as conventions within a story. The doctrine of karma, suggesting the inseparability of self and world, brings together the drama of narration and the inherently relational nature of the person.

Hmmm.......

What is smelly going to have to say about these apples?



(cont.......)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henny_Penny


Well chicken little, why did the acorn hit Your head?
What would enable the sky to fall?

Don't mention gravity or You will be sent into the class corner with a dunces hat on.

Gravity does not exist, this is part of disclosure.

How and why the acorn displaced in location is part of disclosure.

How the sky is there in daytime, but not at night is part of disclosure.

How to displace in any direction is part of disclosure.

hobbit

hobbit,

Yes, gravity does not exist, other than in our heads.  

Tell that to smelly.........!

I do not exist, other than in your head.

And you do not exist, other than in my head.

Maybe...... just maybe, hobbit, we’d better stick together.

What think, my furry little friend?

Whoa Dan.

I didn’t criticize your made up prophecy stories

I deftly threw you on your back.

Dust the dirt off.

You asked about Zen.

I showed you.

I like to throw muppets off balconies.

Fun.

We all share the same air.

Can’t deny that.

Persons are persona, shells.

Do you know how to play the shell game?

Dan the answer to your ranting is to just let it be.

Just be.

What is just is.

You can argue with your existence all you like.

Or you can just exist.

Happy happy joy joy

On this forum, we’re stuck in a word/Logos trap.......

Now I know where all your levers are hidden.  

Your goose is cooked, smelly.  Your jig is up.  

You’d better throw in towel, if you know what’s good for you.


And we share the same bandwidth........ silly goat.  

Over seventy five years, I’ve secured an hegemony on the Logos, pretty much by default, I might add.  

You are here to witness my personal hegemony........ enjoy.  

(cont.......)