Immaterialism 2

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(cont......)

I imagine a relationship between the principle of polarity and the principle of non-duality.

I think the atonement of Jesus is the archetype representation of the process of the "the reconciliation of opposites"

Atonement = at one ment

To make one

When he bled in the garden of gethsemane for our sins, that was a representation of the process of accepting the good and the bad of the world as your very own.

Without the sensation of causing pain and suffering towards others, we would not be able to have the sensation of causing peace and happiness for others.

We accept the world as it is now, the good and the bad, and we rise beyond good and bad so that we can truly embody the good.

The Tao Te Ching is as close as an imagined form I have found that illustrates the principle of polarity.

Scratch that...The Tao is not as close as I Am.

Copulation is another imagined form of polarity.

This union of man and woman, two opposites providing pleasure to each other, is symbolic of the inner process we experience as we unite with creation consciously in final participation.

The result of this union creates new life and new consciousness and our love for this union becomes an expansion on the universe itself.

This reminds us of smelly, very often........

The whole point of polarity is that the more opposition there is, the greater the unity. That is the mystery of it, and therefore you can't . . . as a human being, really become universal, except by way of polarity. You may disappear, cease to exist altogether, but you can't really acquire anything that could reasonably be called universal consciousness except by becoming still more individual than you are now. The more individual you become, if it is really individual and not just simply, self-centeredness, the more universal you are. (SP 19)

What would Osho say about this?  Would he not agree?  


cw,

The sign may have been a joke, but it addresses a very serious issue.... certainly in my case.

I do not believe in sin.



(cont.......)

I just noticed in that picture I posted that the 2nd 'N' in 'nothing' is backwards. hmm

I’ll try to summarize my version.

Kinda of like the beginning of what sloth said.

Let me grok your quote Dan.

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Good 2nd quote Dan, I feel that fierce indviduation is exactly what leads to Barfields polarity and imagination is akey element.

Jung would agree with this as well.

So would Peterson.

OSHO would prob agree too, I imagine

Hahaha, yes Dan I agree.

Is Smelly the great unifying force?

A true individual is fully human and god, using human language.

From a Zen perspective.

An old person on the mountain in the wind with a shelter near by they can seek shelter in when needed, might be a way to visualize it.

Jesus without sin, that’s a good one.

Sin was a noble lie.

TheSloth wrote:

Copulation is another imagined form of polarity.

This union of man and woman, two opposites providing pleasure to each other, is symbolic of the inner process we experience as we unite with creation consciously in final participation.

The result of this union creates new life and new consciousness and our love for this union becomes an expansion on the universe itself.

I enjoyed that, Sloth. Nice work!

Regarding the above specifically, what are your thoughts on sadists and masochists? Interesting how the opposites of pain and joy can meet each other in that universe expanding way.

I'm starting to get quite fond of this synchronicity forum. I listened to this earlier this afternoon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc3Gl2Fmvgc

I agree with you Smelly.

There are many arrows in our quiver and language is one of many.

We have to do the work and practice using words effectively.

CW,

Yes, you are correct.

I will leave it to the Watts link you provided to expound on that.

g-man and j-man........

Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

The Antichrist has to pick up the pieces...... poor guy...... don’t we feel sorry.

The way to fully understand what you read is to write about it.

I just told my boss I have another arrow in my quiver today.

Funny.

As I heard two words said in a meeting, my wife texted the same two words.

Very good synchronicities.

You break it, you fix it I guess Dan.

Kinda like saving the appearances of the clean up crew by making them clean up the mess.

Just like people were formed into duaists, they can be formed into whole Human Beings with polarity.

Look at the polarization of our classes and politics, this is separation of the sheep and goats.

It is in this space that the whole individual will rise and bring balance to.

To an average muppet, a Human Being seems like a god, well, anyone can do it if they have the will, there is a Way. No need to be scared or jealous of each other.

Democracy is also a noble lie.

dan wrote:
I do not believe in sin.  
(cont.......)

Dan,
Can you elaborate?

Also, WWTPS (what would the Pope say?)

The Pope, if he was honest, would say he himself was a liar. Maybe Dan and Ron also might say that

“It is by the goodness of God that in our country we have those three unspeakably precious things: freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, and the prudence never to practice either of them.”

— Mark Twain, on western liberal democracies

Only Human Beings can practice true self determination.

Plato knew this and told us so.

The concept of sin has a similar origin as mistake.  

In the BPW, there is a reason for everything.  Every slip is a Freudian slip, in other words.  

Poor jesus, he died for naught.  Or was it a Felix culpa?


smelly,

I have said that, if God really didn’t exist,  the pope would be one of the first to figure it out.  That is a burden to bear...... for all the believers.  


(cont......)

It is a burden to be aware in this world of falsehoods/fiction, no doubt.

This is a chrysalis maybe after all.

“Socrates famously proposes that all the citizens should be taught a myth or story. They are to identify the earth as their mother, and to believe that, during their gestation within the womb of the earth, different kinds of metal accumulated in their souls, and that these metals are definitive of their future career and place in society.

We call this story ‘the Noble Lie’. ‘Noble’ translates gennaios, meaning ‘well-born’—perhaps because it is about nobility of birth, since all the citizens are nobly born, of the same mother, according to this story, but we shall also find reasons for seeing it as noble in another sense. ‘Lie’ translates pseudos, meaning ‘falsehood’. Perhaps ‘lie’ is an over-translation, since, as many have noted, not all falsehoods are lies. We could substitute ‘fiction’ or ‘pretence’ in place of ‘lie’. But regardless of which terms we use, the fact remains that Socrates suggests using falsehood and asks how we might get the citizens to believe a myth which, in some sense at least, is acknowledged to be untrue.”

Our culture is a noble fiction then, or is our culture ignoble.

It’s both, probably in equal measure, to prevent utter all out tyranny and systemic corruption.

We were given maybe just enough rope to hang ourselves until we smartened up.

It used to be of greater concern to me that Aliyah was lying about portals.  Would that be a noble lie, or just for aggrandizement?  

I’m less concerned, now...... but still, I think it would be noble.

What do the rest of us think?  

Jesus...... a noble lie?  Like Santa Clause?  

Scientism is living without lies.  Or is it?  Or is it living?  Maybe neither one.  

I take the easy way out....... I surrender to coherence..... I go with that flow.  It is the path of least resistance..... for me, anyway.

I’m just a sucker for anything that makes sense. That makes me a Gnostic...... on steroids.



(cont.......)

Dan,

How and when do we find out if you are right?

cw,

You mean this side of the grave?  

Good luck, brother......... God speed.......

And why does He forsake us, so......?  

Well, it keeps some of us out of worse trouble, I suppose...... trying to save those appearances.



(cont........)

“In The Republic, the lovers of sights and sounds are said to be like those who dream because they think that the ‘many beautifuls’ are what the Beautiful is:

A person who recognizes beautiful objects, but does not recognize beauty itself and can’t follow if someone tries to lead him to knowledge of it, does he seem to you to beliving in a dream[ὄναρ] or in a lucid state?

Consider: isn’t the following what dreaming [ὀνειρώττειν] is, namely taking what is merely like something else to be, in reality, the very thing itself, and not just something that is like it—no matter whether they are awake [ἐγρηγορώς] or asleep [ἐν ὕπνῳ] at the time?

Certainly I would say that such a person is dreaming.

The Republic provides a definition: dreaming is taking for real something that is a mere image or likeness of the reality in question. Socrates contrasts the dreamer with one who knows of Beauty itself, and is aware of both it and its instantiations in ordinary things. This person (they agree) is lucid, not dreaming: But the one who (by contrast with those people) thinks the Beautiful itself exists and can survey both it and the things that partake of it, and doesn’t think that the participants are it nor that it is its participants, do you think that person is in a lucid state or in a dream?

Definitely lucid.”

cw, so do you want to be a dreamer or lucid?

I choose lucidity, I don’t recommend it in a world that is dreaming, but becoming lucid is to come into your full Beauty as a Human Being aware of Beautiful.

That alone gives you a fire and energy enough to easily spend a life trying to help the dreamer awaken.

That’s all

Ok, smelly, if you’re so smart........ am I am a human dreaming he is God, or God dreaming he is a human?

I’m not smart, I’m lucid. I am a Philosopher King. I know I was born underground. We are grown underground in a womb of lies.

“To be lucid is to understand that the many beautiful things are like but not identical to the Beautiful itself. To be still in a dream world is to appreciate beautiful things while still unaware that there is something else that is more real. Now, we must ask, which state were the young citizens in when they were undergoing the process of acculturation described in Republic? They were raised on good stories with fine moral exam mples—‘many beautiful things’—but without philosophy. They had no idea as yet that there was something else, such as the Beautiful itself. So according to the definition offered in the junior citizens were in the state we call dreaming, unaware of the greater reality that is the Form itself. It is only when they grow up—only then, if at all—that they achieve a lucid awareness that their training among the beautiful stories was all ‘in a dream’.

In fact, it is the philosopher rulers above all who will see it in this way, since they are, perhaps, the only ones whowill fully understand, because they will have a clearer grasp of how those beautiful things differ from the Beautiful itself, and will see their earlier experience as a dreamlike condition; whereas the ordinary citizens will never reach that level of philosophy so as to see this for themselves. The rulers above all will lucidly understand what it means to say that everything they have experienced so far took place underground, and that they were born only when they emerged from that underground womb.”

Ok, I can buy that, I’m not angry at the deceptions at all.

“It is as if they use the Noble Lie like a ladder, which they need until they have climbed out of the Cave. Then they can kick it away, for they no longer need the falsehood; or rather, what had seemed like f iction when it was told as a myth to your younger innocent self, before you knew the truth about yourself and everyone else, turns out to be not mere fiction but rather a metaphor for the truth and a source of understanding, not a source of deception.”

Personally, this is the source of my compassion to do things like OMF.

The Return of the Philosopher Kings and Queens

“Here the philosophers are required to return periodically, to govern an ideal community. This city is awake because the people in charge of it are no longer dreaming. Yet even there, everyone still starts life in the underground womb, facing the wall and watching a shadowshow. Nevertheless, the city is ‘awake’ or lucid, and even those who will never progress to pure intellectual studies will benefit, because they no longer live in a community that is confused and dreaming. Here, where philosophers bring wisdom and understanding to the task of governing, the people no longer box with mere shadows of justice, but with shadows that systematically and deliberately track the truth. These new shadows are carefully produced for them by thinkers who understand what justice really is.

How will this be achieved? Presumably the returning philosophers will choose or create the models of justice and goodness for the underground society. Their shadow-plays will not be like ours, determined by the whims of journalists and advertisers with no interest in what is really good. Instead, their shadows will speak of justice as it really is, and of what is really good, albeit in stories and images. In the ideal state the puppets, at whose passing shadows the prisoners gaze, will be crafted by selfless philosophers who have seen the Forms and have returned to convey the truth in a way that the people can handle. The very decision to project shadows will have been taken by rulers who want the people to see things that resemble the truth. The education underground, in the Noble Lie, and in the second stage of the Cave, is an education in likenesses, in a dream world, but in both cases the likenesses are chosen for their goodness and for their formative effect on the childish soul. They are the best there is for the young and for those who cannot aspire to the heights of philosophical vision.”

Perhaps Dan and crew are bringing new fictions aligned with Truth.

You can give yourself a secret education from the secret teachers.

I think that’s enough for now

I have OSHO and Plato abd Socrates and Barfield ringing in my ears.

Perhaps there is no better or truer way to persuade them of the truth than by telling stories.

Manna from Heaven...I’m done reading men for awhile, time to see what the mind of woman has for me.

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1590300068/braipick-20#mediaMatrix_secondary_view_div_1540354068796

Save your satanic toast muppets, the funniest thing I ever saw and she dead pans it. The ending is the best.



These guys are the best, they cracked it. Poor muppets, all they have is Elon Alex and Joe. They are losing their minds, good start, they just have to finish the job.

Very evident that a full moon is about to traverse across America.
Loonies is a good word.

hobbit