Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

First topic message reminder :

Ok, I'm slowly backing away. You guys have fun. Until next time, don't let the aliens or black op fascists get you.

---

Simply, there is no seeker. 
There is nothing to attain. 
No such thing as enlightenment. 
Let's stop all this silliness.

We are lost in a hypnotic dream of separation. 

Searching for something only illustrates ignorance of reality.

Refining the mind seems like a good use of time. 

We are just dreamseekers following dreamteaching. 

There is no understanding oneness, there is just being in it.

This is all already known.

We just are remembering.

That includes all of your drama too Dan. 

We will have no impact unless love is involved. 

I know, I'm no help and a big distraction.

That is half right, we are all so very distracted.

Love is all that is moving.

As you were.

You Brits always have had good timing, you are just too damn greedy.

garzparz wrote:You Brits always have had good timing, you are just too damn greedy.

Are you talking about me? I'm American. Bon and - mostly - raised in Boston. An Expat in this land downunder.

Ahh, I really am the most clueless one here.

I have to go buy an old lady a sandwich.

Later.

Donald has too much ego.....?

But this is the BPW..... nobody has too much of anything.  

His ego will provide our foil.  I trust that it will be big enough.  

He will share his vanity..... to be tinder for all the world.  

The more I think about it, the more I like it.


PF,

My # is 443 799 seven two oh one. Are you afraid to give me yours?

I can catch you up on the details, and then you can reassure the others that they haven't missed a thing, and the party's just getting started.

The Bonfire of the Vanities is upon us.

He is the sum of our demand for attention.

It's just embarrassing to see it exposed, which is the point. Have you noticed all the recent dark deeds of people coming out in public?

Trump is the entire point of the show. We are fools and unequal that have to work it out together in the same boat. Here is a good idea. Trump is right to call out the inequality, he is only doing it to take advantage of suffering. You think he wants to help? He figures if he does well he rest of us will too.

We will have to chose his way or our way. So I'm thankful he will make the choice very real for people. Vote for him and you are voting for yourself. If he wins, you know where our collective US heart is, just for ourselves. 

Great setup actually. I thought Bush would be the last president. What do I know.

https://www.facebook.com/rutger.bregman/videos/1844685682427560/

Trump is our perfect foil. Yes yes. I just can't stand his ass in the air because it's our collective ass, but take a good look.

We have to bring nonduality to Trump, hahaha.

To make the most of your circumstances is all any of us can do. He just does it on the backs of anyone dumb enough to let him and he calls them suckers as he steals their money. We buy water stolen from Indian reservations. Everything is rotten and the stink is rising.

My thought is that Hillary will be our last real president. After her, we'll have pretend presidents, just like we'll be having pretend popes. Francis just happens to be the first.

Donald already has the makings of a new media empire, to replace the implosion of Fox. He's smart enough to be ahead of our little game, but that's alright..... I won't hold it against him.

I thought Francis was the last.

See, I know nothing.

Yes, I read this is the perfect setup for Trump to start his new right media empire. He is good at Shadow work.

---

Been reading Hidden Wisdom to try to figure some things out. While you dance with these clueless people, I'm struggling with visions, Angels and Daimons.

I've been shamanized by that damn Aya and I didn't even know it. I opened myself up to it, but I was drawn to it. So it's not totally my fault. I just have an innate shamanic heritage. My heritage is a part of it. 

We are meant to bring healing back through the tea and the visions. It took me inside and out and I'm not quite sure what I am being invited to partake in.

Silicon Valley Shamans

Cool.

We need these old skills again. Modern day hackers are shamans of a kind of a digital bardo world. Not my calling. 

There are some strange things happening in the valley. It's ground zero for a new spirituality. The collective here is very close to awakening, but lost it's soul and it's grasping at the esoteric. It is no accident I am in Silicon Valley. I think this is where a new spiritual awakening will flow from. One of several places. I just know this. I'm not questioning this too much. 

What's happening in the desert is only a metaphor for the internal. I came across an old Magus' writing with an 18 month program to meet your astral guardian, God and he did that 1000 years ago. I understand better these mages learned how to create an astral form that could then manifest here. It's dangerous work and I don't think that's for me.

If I wanted to now, in ancient times, I understand my next step would be into ceremonial magick to ultimately be able to draw astral beings down to teach me.

I find it funny how systematic the old incantations and magicians are when so much of my path is natural intuitive magic. It's about vision and focus and infusing ideas and visualization with your Prana. I can few and direct my Prana now. I can bounce the energy around my body and now I'm starting to naturally direct it externally. I guess everyone has to fake it until they make it.

A modern day Shaman called by nature to help the world. 

This kinda fun learning what you are. 

I was always a gambler and risk taker, but you can know.

Things become clearer.

Every serious seeker will have no choice but to become a mystic unless the barriers in your mind block you. 

Why would anyone not want to drink of these magic crazy waters? I just don't understand people's fear.

We are all gonna die, best to hold fast in the meantime.

The Indians were told the same truth Jesus taught. This is a universal light breaking forth before us and in us. 

What a time to be alive!

dan wrote:My thought is that Hillary will be our last real president.  After her, we'll have pretend presidents, just like we'll be having pretend popes.  Francis just happens to be the first.

JFK. The last real president that is.

Kevin Spacey as President. As believable as Reagan. Probably more competent too.

As for calling you Dan, why do you post your phone number on a public forum? Why do you expect me to post my phone number in public? Hell, who even remembers phone numbers any more?

(strange that I can remember my childhood phone number but not my current one)

Why talk over the phone? Why not post your thoughts on disclosure here? Isn't this the place for talking about UFO disclosure?

(finally, I just want to express my distaste for both Trump and Hillary. It's a choice between the incompetent versus the corrupt. Trump: a historical progeny of the union between Dan Quayle and Sarah Palin. Hillary: A chimera consisting of a troll combined with a K street lobbyist.)

Eric,

It sounds like you're on the right track.  I would stick to it.  I'm not a practitioner or experiencer of any kind.  I focus on skull work, seeing metaphysics as an extension of physics.


PF,

Suit yourself.  

I doubt that you have a clue w.r.t. the BPWH.  In order to have a clue, you would need to refer back to the mnemonics that are on the pages c. 18 of the previous thread.  It does get rather dense.  It is a struggle to extricate yourself from the modern paradigm, especially for anyone with more than a casual acquaintance with science.  

OTOH, it is well worth the struggle.  Without that struggle you will not be able to fully grasp either paradigm.  The resulting ambiguities may lead you into endless confusion, as you attempt to struggle, blindly, from one paradigm to the other.  That's pretty much where Eric is, but then he seems to have a pretty good handle on the phenomenology.  That would leave you at a double disadvantage..... just saying.  

I'm not aware of anyone who does have such a handle..... certainly not Ron or Aliyah.  They are more like Eric.  They may even be more advanced, in that regard.  Eric fails to understand that we have a fairly specific mission, here.  We are in a rather delicate place, not unlike a molting crustacean, or a butterfly about to leave its cocoon.  There be predators in these waters.  Yes, Donald is one of the potential predators, and even unaware.  Hillary..... is a bit more tame, hopefully.  Likely more aware.  She can focus.  She has been on the briefing scene for longer.  But R&A don't like her either.  They won't explain.  


With somebody with media savvy, on the outside, we have a better chance to regularize this Diclosure process, even if that one be Trump.  If not.... well, wish us luck, regardless.  


What might work is a series of interviews with philosopers and physicists, wherein the interviewer would proactively engage her subjects, on the topic of immaterialism.  The series would be commissioned with a high level of network support.  Folks would gather that something was afoot, and pay attention.  Rumors would circulate that this was a lead up to something.  This process could be stretched out for about another year.  Folks would have a better idea of what was at stake.  This would be the final phase of the 70 year-long acclimation process.  Could Donald possibly get behind such an effort?  Otherwise, we'd have to grapple with an entire media bureaucracy.  

That's my suggestion, anyway, on moving forward, with a modicum of caution.  Anyone have a better idea?  

There could be more background briefings, while the media process unfolded.... in conjunction with the media process.  

Oh, yes, at some point we would begin to include theologians and spiritual types, in the interview process.  

The title of the series would indicate that this was a focused attempt to move outside the box (of materialism).  It would be a concerted exercise in 'what if....'.    


12:15-------

It would probably be difficult to hide the fact that there was a specific worldview in mind.  It would be very helpful to see other folks struggle to the same logical conclusion, but difficult to hide the fact that that the conclusion was already in the bag.  But still, it might be worth the strain on credulity.  



(cont.)

Don't hide it. Nonduality pervades all religion and a growing number of agnostic scientists. Be direct. The SAND organization is already doing this. They get guys like Spira and scientists talking. 

I don't think you should play games, just get their two cents in the changes happening, but don't hide your position.

PF, I'm sure you have been through your own spiritual journey or decided there is none, whatever your beliefs, there is a spiritual aspect to disclosure, like that's the ultimate disclosure.

The best thing someone like you could do is ask and answer those internal questions yourself. What is happening here I'm not quite sure. 

I know everyone needs what Dan and I are spinning. We are stmblibg around in the dark, there is no need for confusion. We are all part of a swirling dream. I know the dream angle has to be personal, you will just realize everything is connected, until a person acknowledges this, they are tossed on the waves of fear and regret.

And Dan, we are all experiencers. Watching you try to rationalize this I often want to say no, stop, connect the rational point to your experience, but that's the personal part I guess.

Thank you, Eric.  The SAND folks lack the courage of their convictions.  They lack a sense history, meaning and personhood.  

I don't know why or how they can be so impervious to any and all insights of the prophetic tradition.  It is the most conscious of all denials.... bizarre, really.  

At least, Eric, you realize there is a flow.  They would deny time, altogether, if they could only wish it away.   You need to straighten them out.  

I'm hopeful that the intellectuals/academicians can be afforded another year to acclimate to immaterialism. My being visible anywhere on their horizon would only scare them off. Let them play with Deepak. After a year of that, they might begin to wonder..... where's the beef?


(cont.)

You are right Dan. Jung helped clear a lot up for me. He was searching for references that matched his experience until he realized he was outside alone. It terrified him I think being out there. I'm not comparing my insights or awareness, but they align a lot with Jung's, his is my experience in the end anyway. So I'll claim them

He overlays history on his experience and I have done the same. I found parallels mostly with the esoteric. It led him to notice and Jewish Mystics which led him to ancient Egypt. He acknowledged no insight, but he was a prophet and gave a warning and prophecy in the black book. It's amazing actually. He wrote a book for people a few hundred years in the future. 

The bible was written by Mystics, I appreciate it that way, as an allegory of the inward ascent. The Caballa aligns a lot with what the Mystics are experiencing in the East and it all goes back to the east as Jung found. The Great Lodge of the East.

I integrated what I needed from Nis, we are amalgamating experience and history.

I heard often at SAND, not much compassion from these people for their fellow man, more the earth. They see everyone needing to do their own work all at different points of awareness. That's true Dan.

You have to see there is an order to the natural process of awakening. I don't want to label it. I have tried to keep my experience free from categorization. I see patterns and imprints in others writings and art. It resonates, then synchronicity takes you on a journey of learning.

And that calm guru act is funny, do your own thing I thought. No more gurus. So yes, there is always more work to do and more awareness to be had. But you can't stereotype them all. There is a collection and nexus of amazing people there. Open loving awake people. That's got to be valuable and a good place to ruminate on these things.

I'm on this crazy Ted Chaing thread. Here is an idea Dan. Free will exists in the flow of the moment after an event occurs. You have a choice how you react only. 

Prove me wrong. 

This is so hotly debated, but I don't think there is anything else possible.

I'm doubtful we have that much free will.

We have freedom in what we think, but not what we do.

I'm doubtful you're right

Edward Snowden wrote:No matter who you are, no matter what you have, sometimes a little courage can change the course of history.

He was not speaking about himself, but the Chinese families who hid him and kept his secret. This is a man I would call a friend and brother. This is the kind of man who should be representing mankind with the Others. 

The rest of you are playing, Snowden was ready to give his life for the whole, are you all?

I know some have given much in secret, to you, thank you.

Eric,

I value your sentiments.  Folks rise to the occasion.  The j-man certainly managed.  Drug lords and autocrats also manage.  We do what's put in front of us.  Sometimes we chicken out.  

We can all do better.  We will..... once we have a clue.  


The explanatory burdens I have to bear, as an immaterialist, are......

1.)  atoms

2.)  stars

3.)  fossils

4.)  free will

Perhaps #4 is the heaviest.  #4 is the touchstone of dualists.  Even pantheists, however, usually pay lip service to free will.  They speak of karma.

In my book, karma is collective.  It is the Katechon.  The j-man broke the glass ceiling that is the Katechon.  We're just waking up to that fact.  

That is the first and foremost fact we awaken to, when we awaken from the slumber of materialism.  The non-dualists have but one eye open.  

Free will......?

Like almost everyone else, I savor it's appearance. I cherish it, along with my ego.

People at Grace would ask me...... what's the point of trying to be good, if we have no free will? Let's eat, drink and be merry.



(cont.)

I have been learning about the entities that make up galaxies and stars.

What must it be like to be a conscious being over a celestial body?

I know you don't think they exist, but they sing to me. 

There is a backward way to see free will after an event maybe.

I feel intuitively it's like a sci-fi story I read about a device invented that would light 1 second before you touched it via a reverse time circuit. It drove people insane. It's all about time. The stubbornly real illusion.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v436/n7047/full/436150a.html

Good story.......

Many of us have already been in this position..... it's not at all uncommon.  

We survive.  We go with the flow..... nay, we anticipate the flow.  We thrive on the aesthetics of the BPW.  

We start thinking like the Monad that we are.  It's quite a show.  

We are constantly surprised.  We enjoy being outsmarted by the universe.  That's the take away from this game, Eric.  Sound familiar?  


What about reason?  Alvin Platinga effectively argues that reason makes no sense without free will.  

Eugene Wigner speaks to this when he argues for the UEM, the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics.

I would posit the UER.... the unreasonable effectiveness of reason.....



(cont.)

The flow sucks you into some fractal recursion program, that's what reality here is, an endless recursion that can synthesize new forms. I think there are moments where you become the flow, then you can drive a little. It's like the new emerging autonomous cars. What a metaphor. We are not quite ready to take our hands off the wheel, almost.

You can learn to almost guess the next step, but then you learn no guessing is needed, the next step does not exist.

Do as much as you can with no next steps. Amazing how simple things can become.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, we will find peace." - Jimi Hendrix #onelove

"All men should smoke because the power in the smoke makes all men agree". - Indian saying 

Aya makes all people agree too it seems. We are all connected, to each other and everything. To the degree you fall into this dictates how high your placed. Are you willing to go to hell and release your demons? You have to meet them too. It isn't all rainbows and unicorns. There are many rungs on the ladder of consciousness. 

I feel we should keep looking at ourselves in the mirror. We should not take our gaze away from the moment. We should let everything else fall away in pursuit of our Self. 

We are never done.

Ah, yes, the ladder without rungs..... how do we climb it?  

All it takes is a mustard seed of faith.  

The glass ceiling of the Katechon existed only in our minds.  We change our minds..... we change the world.  That is all the free will that we need.

Reason, like mathematics, is cosmic..... it's communal.  I don't own my reason.  It is one aspect of the cosmic sapience.  

We struggle to achieve it.  The BPWH just happens to be a cheat sheet.  Before the BPWH, there was xtianity.  Before that, there was shamanism.  Eric is somewhere between.  


Faith implies free will......?

Not really..... not if you're a Presbyterian, or believe in the holy ghost.

There is grace..... does anyone deserve grace?  Certainly not me.  

Grace is the lottery in the sky. A predetermined lottery? Determined by what?

Aesthetics......? And much of aesthetics is in the surprise. Often, we can be surprised by love. Other times, we have to work for it.



(cont.)

Perhaps this could spark some awake with moments of samadhi.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_57b4dfa2e4b095b2f542708d

You mean that we might not need the Donald?  

That would be a shame.  He's all dressed up, and nowhere to go.  

I suspect that he's already half way into this loop.  We'd just need to bring him the rest of the way.


We have to work at love and reason. As work goes, it's not so bad.

What is the big reward......?

The big reward is that you get to transcend your ego. What a relief.


(cont.)

I'm sorry, maybe it's ego, I can't have a real conversation with a republican or anyone calling themselves conservative. He is only conservative to keep as much money as he can for himself. He has gold fixtures to pay for. 

I understand having a shadow master like him has value, and it takes light and shadow to make a whole, but I simply can't abide a word that comes from his lips. He has not one real sincere bone in his corrupted little body.

Conservative = Fear

They do not compute for me. I have no idea how they can think the way they do. 

They are unnatural and thus can be ignored, they will evaporate.

They lift up Ayn Rand and this head of the Ragle Forum proud she defeated the ERA.

This sick conservative cult needs to be burned out. They are the evil in the world today.

They are other and alien to me.

Spoken like a true Western nondual convert.

I know it's not that black and white, but I have a revulsion for Trump, because just like Jesus is me, so is he. He clearly demarcated the low point for a human being in this day and age. Im not comparing him to Hitler, but if the shoe fits.

You think you can contain his shadow? I don't think a being in the Universe could contain his ego. 

He's a perfect player for his role.

Watching the conservatives evaporate would be about as exciting as watching the grass grow.

I'm under the impression that we might have license to goose this game up a bit.  


Yes, the Donald could be the perfect player. Where is your mustard seed?



(cont.)