Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

First topic message reminder :

2:40pm EST

White Smoke 30 min ago.... Watching it live... awaiting the New Pope to walk out on the balcony. Vatican Guards and Italian Naval Soldiers marching on the steps of St.Peters Basilica, to the music of the Marching Band.




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edit notice: This thread is the Part Two continuation from the original thread - last post here -

https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t6p990-hello-cy-hello-omf-ii#2215

Cyrellys wrote:
>
>
>
Many coconuts.  One mutually agreeable course.  One price.  Sanity, Soul, and Human Potential be damned.

Cy

All the above, Yes, Very well laid out, Cy. These are all real concerns.

I'm still stumped on which Puppeteers are pulling O and K's strings. And why they are play acting this out on the political stage like immature simple-minded Keystone Cops.

Well, the latest News Above will present a conundrum for O and K's, while they prepare their next 3 line Monty Python Act.


.

dan wrote:Once again, Ron is able to surprise with his contrariness......

1.)  Quasi-climate denier

2.)  Assad supporter

3.)  Obama's Syrian gambit mushrooming into WWIII

4.)  Extreme pro-life stance  

5.)  The US has become the primary supporter of terrorists, deliberately or not.  

Did I miss something?  Now he is promising a UFO special.  The next LotP show is to be on Syria.  He reserves the prerogative to assassinate the bad guys, particularly the poachers, with no small support from the Princess.  

Audience question to tomorrow's show on Syria:

Can the Footman offer any confirmation that the following report may merit attentive consideration?

'CIA fabricated evidence to lure US into war with Syria'
Published time: September 09, 2013 17:17

The intelligence gathered against Syria’s Assad was manufactured by elements within the spy community in order to mislead the US President to take punitive action, Ray McGovern, a veteran CIA analyst, told RT.

McGovern was among the signatories to the letter from veteran intelligence professionals to Obama, warning the US president that Assad is not responsible for the chemical attack, and that “CIA Director John Brennan is perpetrating a pre-Iraq-War-type fraud on members of Congress, the media, [and] the public.”

con't

http://rt.com/op-edge/us-syria-cia-fabrication-620/

Jake Reason wrote:

Cyrellys wrote:
>
>
>
Many coconuts.  One mutually agreeable course.  One price.  Sanity, Soul, and Human Potential be damned.

Cy

All the above, Yes, Very well laid out, Cy.  These are all real concerns.

I'm still stumped on which Puppeteers are pulling O and K's strings.  And why they are play acting this out on the political stage like immature simple-minded Keystone Cops.

Well, the latest News Above will present a conundrum for O and K's, while they prepare their next 3 line Monty Python Act.


.

The same ones pulling Ron's IMO.

http://prorevnews.blogspot.com/2010/08/obamas-hidden-past-contd.html

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/08/former-fbi-informant-recalls-infiltrating-the-weather-underground-says-its-ludicrous-former-members-are-teaching-at-ivy-league-schools/

I can say I've had white hats tell me to steer clear of the D&R show.  More than one group has said so.

And I might have seen it all as immaterial and kept my distance, had the ones who took down OMF left well enough alone.   But anyone who whizzes in their own oatmeal should know that the act alone attracts flies.  Not to mention burning libraries really is a crime against humanity... modern imperatives utilized by either the relative "good" guys or "relative" bad guys believe themselves above all standards of decency.  They and they alone matter...all else is thus expendable.  The ends justify the means.

Who is who?  And how far will any group go to establish, evolve, supersede another group, or to protect themselves are valid questions with variations in context as differences in groups are apparent.  Am I speaking of only one group here or several? 

And who (a German/Nazi) was it that was involved in the founding of the CIA, - returning to the subject of Obama's roots and affiliations beyond the links above?  

Ok track it back a good deal further Spring of 1944 Merck and Company, Inc received a large cash infusion from Martin Bormann...This at the time Merck's president, George W. Merck,was advising President Roosevelt, and initiating strategies, as America's biological weapons industry director.  According to CBS News correspoindent Paul Manning, the lion's share ofthe Nazi Gold went to 750 corporations, largely including Merck, to secure a virtual monopoly over the world's chemical and pharmaceutical industries.  This was done not only for Germany's economic recovery, but to assure the rise of "The Fourth Reich".


Merck, then along with Rockefeller partner I.G. Farben, received huge sums of money from the Nazi war chest to actualize Hitler's proclaimed 'vision of a thousand-year Third Reich (and) world empire. This was outlined with clarity in a document called 'Neuordnung,' or 'New Order', that was accompanied by a letter of transmittal to the (Bormann led) Ministry of Economics.  'Bury your treasure,' Hitler advised Bormann, 'for you will need it to begin a Fourth Reich.'  ~ Leonard Horowitz, D.M.D., M.A., M.P.H. Emerging Viruses: AIDS and Ebola: Nature, Accident, or Intentional? (Sandpoint, Idaho: tetrahedron, Inc. 1999) p.335.


In late 1988 Russian Premier Mikhail Gorbachev appeared to be trying to point a finger of blame for the AIDS epidemic in Africa in Germany's direction.  ~ The Black Sun:  The PhoenixRises: the Bormann Plan by Joseph P. Farrell


Also from that last source look at OTRAG Corporation in relation to the AIDS epidemic - OTRAG as in Orbital Transport and Missiles, AG tasked with isolating viruses from the African green monkey that were capable of such rapid reproduction that it could destabilize the human immune system.  The lab's assignment was to develop a mutant strain "that would be a human killer", since the green monkey variety was harmless to humans.  ~  also from Horowitz, p.364.


Farrell notes the OTRAG-Zaire enclave was something like Area 51 with "complete sovereignty and control over the area."  and was part of a network of relationships with South American governments and false front corporations with connections to the American intelligence community and military industrial corporate complex.  This stuff is such an octopus that Farrell notes an article by Penthouse magazine of all sources, disclosing OTRAG's ties to Dornier and Messerschmitt-Belkow-Blohm aerospace andarmaments firms which werequietly developing and testing German cruise missile technology with the aid of same subject technology from American Boeing Corporation.  Black projects of the Third Reich's war machine.


From there it jumps out to a quote by Nick Cook, The Hunt for Zero Point, p. 252.  "The state within a state had been transported four thousand miles tothe west and somehow I just knew Kammler had come with it.  The intuitive feeling I'd experienced all these years in obscure corners of the US aerospace and defense industry had suddenly acquired a face."


They did it more than once - create the state within a state.  Farrell noted that these people did it once in Germany attaching themselves to the SS and the Party and then again in Argentina, and again in post war United States.  Second paragraph page 272 of The Black Sun goes into the conduits used to fund their postwar survival.


Remember Eisenhower's warning?


There is also a good many post war connections that can be tracked involving a Nazis and the Arabs (Nazis find Allah) see info in The Nazi International by Farrell about Skorzeny.


I can go on and on here and you can see an Octopus that can be tracked over the last 60+ years right up into today's "players" on this transnational race to global cataclysm.  It is all in there - eugenics, Nasser's Egypt, Yasser Arafat, the Arab League, Mein Kampf translated into Arabic, Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, Saddam Hussein, the Jeddah Agreement....and the infamous Third Position.


And Truman at some point suspecting the CIA  had been compromised by the Nazis and instead assigns the FBI to hunt Bormann in Bariloche Argentina when he had originally signed in 1947 National Security Act into law which gave foreign intelligence operations jurisdiction to the CIA and now we know that NSA is a "direct translation of Himmler's Reichsiherheithauptamt," which was also a "central intelligence agency clearing house."


CIA issue which caused Truman to turn to the FBI:  Zurich OSS station chief Allen Dulles, a secret deal with German mil intelligence eastern front, General Reinhard Gehlen and his network - Gehlen in charge of day to day operations, "before the ink was even dry on the National Security Act of 1947"


And Bormann was believed traveling under a Vatican Passport in the postwar timeframe.


So there's the  roots of "some" of this...marry it up with the fabian socialists the weathermen (cia fronts) used to train Obama and the military industrial complex.


global domination, social engineering, resource control, economic control, and depopulation....


states within states.  Same folks different names.

Now ask just who is Valerie Jarrett.

Cy

While it might be prudent to steer clear of the D&R show, it is rather educational.  And since I'm here for OMF anyway, I prefer to get a good look at the scenery.

and Kerry...

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/12/28/Flashback-John-Kerry-Obsessed-With-Creating-A-Superpower-Free-New-World-Order

U.S. Senate Session January 11, 1991 on entering the Gulf War: "Much has been said by the Secretary of State about a new world order, about a defining moment in history. I have no doubt about the potential of this moment to be defining in terms of history, but that definition could be negative as well as positive. And how negative or positive it will be will depend on what kind of new world order we really create. Can it truly be said that the United States of America, trading off better treatment of China for an abstention on a vote, cozying up to Syria with its record of support for terrorism, or making promises to other countries... can it really be said that these create a new world order? Can it really be said that we're building a new world order when it's almost exclusively the United States who will be fighting in the desert? Not alone, but almost. Displaying pride and impatience and implementing what essentially amounts to a 'pacts-Americana.' Is that a new world order? Can it really be said that this is a new world order when it lacks a true United Nations collective security effort, with the full measure of international cooperation and burden-sharing -- which that should carry?"28 Dec 2012 16 post a comment

http://beforeitsnews.com/libertarian/2013/02/john-kerry-secretary-of-states-new-world-order-dream-links-to-bilderberg-group-nazis-and-skull-bones-forebodes-more-wars-2486658.html

Before Its News wrote:
JOHN KERRY; Secretary Of State’s ‘NEW WORLD ORDER’ Dream & Links To Bilderberg Group, Nazis, And Skull & Bones Forebodes More Wars
Saturday, February 16, 2013 18:40

(Before It's News)
As a follow up to my interview with Jack Blood, in which we discussed the OSS program “Operation Paperclip”, I thought it was relevent to create a brief article bolstering my claims regarding the significance of this movement of Nazis into the US at the end of WWII.  Skull & Bones members were peppered throughout the OSS, which later became the CIA under William Donovan.
The following is an incomplete but quick example of how deep connections between highly influential players and groups drive policy…
During John Kerry’s recent confirmation hearings for Secretary Of State he could not resist quoting from Henry Kissinger’s 1994 book exalting the creation of a “New World Order”.
2013.1.24 John Kerry New World Order Quote At Secretary Of State Confirmation Hearing (ABC, youtube.com):

Kerry seems rather obsessed with the idea of creating a “New World Order”, and this can be seen in his statements during the 1991 Persian Gulf Debates as he echos his fellow Skull & Bones member George Bush Sr.’s idea of “a New World Order is coming into view”.
Kerry manages to say “New World Order” SIX TIMES IN 81 SECONDS!!
2012.12.31 Skull & Bones John Kerry Talks About A New World Order (1991 Persian Gulf Debates) (C-SPAN, youtube.com):

PLAYERS:
George Bush Sr.:

• Bilderberg Group, Bush Family helped finance Nazi’s rise to power & continued throughout the war, CIA Director, New World Order, Skull & Bones
  

Henry Kissinger (Heinz Kissinger):

• Bilderberg Group, Nazi Collaborator, New World Order
  

John Kerry (Forbes):

• Bilderberg Group, New World Order, Skull & Bones
  

Prince Bernhard Of The Netherlands:

• Bilderberg Group Founder, Nazis SS Member
  

GROUPS:
Bilderberg Group:

• Planned extension of Nazi power and influence into the corporate and financial worlds (in my opinion).
  

OSS & CIA:

• OSS program “Operation Paperclip” brought Nazis into the US, Skull & Bones members were prominent OSS Agents and later CIA Agents.
  

Skull & Bones:

• Germanic Death Cult, proto Nazis, connected to the occult group the Germanenorden and its offshoot the Thule Society, which eventually became the Nazi Party.
  

Even Kerry’s relative, Forbes, wrote an article about his selection as Secretary Of State being influenced by the Bilderberg Group, and also mentions their connection to Nazis.
2012.12.17 John Kerry, Tipped As The Next Secretary Of State, Has Bilderberg Links (forbes.com):
http://www.forbes.com/sites/eamonnfingleton/2012/12/17/john-kerry-tipped-as-the-next-secretary-of-state-has-bilderberg-links/
2013-02-16 18:34:01
Source: http://deadlinelive.info/2013/02/16/john-kerry-secretary-of-states-new-world-order-dream/

Cyrellys wrote:

Jake Reason wrote:

Cyrellys wrote:

Many coconuts.  One mutually agreeable course.  One price.  Sanity, Soul, and Human Potential be damned.

Cy

All the above, Yes, Very well laid out, Cy.  These are all real concerns.

I'm still stumped on which Puppeteers are pulling O and K's strings.  And why they are play acting this out on the political stage like immature simple-minded Keystone Cops.

Well, the latest News Above will present a conundrum for O and K's, while they prepare their next 3 line Monty Python Act.

The same ones pulling Ron's IMO.

Cy

I don't think so, Cy.  But I understand why you might entertain this possibility.

Intel Analysis - Saddam/Iraq has no weapons of mass destruction.
Oh, well, that is not a convenient analysis.  Thanks but no thanks... you are dismissed.

Ok, well in that case, if you're not going to listen, I think I'll go and marry a Princess.  Sorry Whifey.  Well maybe not exactly a real Princess, but a want-a-be/could-be.  Can you blame him?  She has a nice heart.



So Cy, I don't think so.  Different faction.  Ron is on the Pope's side.  And Dan is dumbfounded as to why.

Well, maybe not, Dan does understand the Pontiff of Idolatry plays a part in the end game.  Idolatry is the second last foe, that must be transcended.

Anyway....

All I know for sure is that neither Ron, nor Dan are Apostolic Christians.  They don't like the teaching of Christ.  Well, some of it, but they find it hard to accept the metaphysical stuff - Irony of Ironies.  They think they know better than him.  Presumably because they think they are more educated.   They like Christianity, though.  It "has legs, will travel".  A helpful tool to use.   However Dan and Ron arguably use it for different reasons.  Dan and Ron are most likely NOT on the same page.  Maybe it's a "scratch my back" sort of thing.


--------------------------------

Or not



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edit: it's not nice to tell

Cy,

You will probably agree that we humans are able, and sometimes do exercise the power of forgiveness.  Wonderful.  

But now you are suggesting that God either has not the will, or has not the power to exercise forgiveness.  

Or have I misheard your statments?


..... and Jake,.....

It is quite true that very often Ron and I are not on the same page.  I seldom drop my guard, around him.  If he were tasked to keep me on my toes, he does succeed.  

And it is quite true that I am not an Apostolic Christian.  Jesus' mission of salvation, unifinished as it was, clearly points to a culminating event.  As humanly possible, I attempt to anticipate that event, bless my chicken-little heart!  


As anticipated, in these endtimes, there will be a confluence of conspiracies.  

What Cy does not articulate is that God necessarily possesses the ultimate power in the pulling of such strings, either by commission or omission.  Individual human responsibility, in this regard, is rather limited, unless you are able to effectively anticipate and possibly be in the right place and right time, which is my modest endeavor.  

Is Ron working for me or against me?  Well, if you were the PtB, would you want to miss the showtime...... or not try to keep your irons in the fire?  Why the heck not?  But, by the same token, you must not attempt to preempt the big gal upstairs.  You may be allowed a finger or two on the cosmic scale, but, no, not a thumb!  It is a pas-de-deux!  It's ok to dance with an elephant, but do mind your steps.  

OTOH, foot-dragging on the part of the PtB is fully anticipated, of course, and God probably does not wish to be a party-pooper, in any case.  So, the party's not over 'til the big-gal gets good and ready to sing!  

Is my endeavor risky?  I don't get that feeling.  Maintaining a sense of irony and humor, and not taking oneself too seriously can keep the demons at bay.  Ron can be most helpful in that regard..... just make it good enough for gummint' work.  And how do you like my little cone of silence, right here at OM..... just what the Doctor ordered.  


1pm----------

And, yesterday, there was a meeting with a small delegation from South Africa, representing both private and government interests in technology assisted counter-poaching (TACP)

And, yes, it was an interesting confluence of various agendas, only a very few of which could actually be represented. The main rhino reserve, Krueger Park, is on the boarder with Mozambique, wherein there is a confluence of many international interests, to put it mildly. Africa is an unstable region, with more than its fair share of failing states. It presents a laboratory for asymmetrical, low-intensity conflicts, on various levels. It is a frontier, in many respects. Be there or be square.



(cont.)

From: Dan
Date: September 11, 2013, 11:05:24 AM EDT
To: Steven Earl Salmony
Cc: ...............
Subject: Re: (Salmony & Bish) Fwd: $1,000 question: Did the population bomb ever explode?

Steve et al.......

Yes, we do live in the age of science, wherein every problem appears to be a scientific problem...... the only cure for bad science or too little science is going to be more and better science.  

Yes, this is a very logical and scientific way to approach our imminent human crisis.  The CCP, in 1979, did not have to worry about ignorance, in their implementation of the one-child policy.  

The rest of the world is not China, nor do we have a CCP.  

What are 'we' poor scientists to do?  One point to note is that the prestige of science appears to be in decline.  

Perhaps, before consigning the salvation of humanity to the good graces of a declining scientific intelligentsia, we might first ask ourselves...... who is going to save science?  

Is it true, for instance, that science is widely perceived as being inherently incapable of addressing itself to our ultimate concerns?  

I regret that I have not spoken recently with Paul Z, so my scientific initiative is on hold.  I suspect that Paul is terminally unsympathetic with the small-world hypothesis (SWH).  Can we blame him?  Am I not the only non-funadamentalist to explicitly endorse the SWH?  Having fraternized with such as me would not look good on his scientific resume.  

What I need to clarify in my own mind is how the Aether may relate to the mind of God.  

The Aether is the missing link between physics and metaphysics.  I may be the only one to have explicitly stated this point, but it is, nonetheless, a widely felt point amongst the few philosophically literate scientists.  In a sense, the mathematical pleroma of Pythagoras is just another aspect of the Aether/Apeiron.  There will be a confluence, asap.  


noon---------

This just in......... Prince Harry is joining with the Princess in the now international Wildlife Conservation UAV Challenge......

http://www.alkareemfoundation.org/projects.html

Presumably, the Prince will be 3-D printing his very own drone in the basement of Buckingham Palace.  
----------


And the Princess does agree that the UAV/Wildlife challenge is an integral part of our BPWH salvation.  

But how does the apeiron relate to the aether?  The apeiron is the obverse or shadow of Mad Max Tegmark's Multiverse hypothesis.  

From: Dan
Date: September 11, 2013, 12:53:48 PM EDT
To: Steven Earl Salmony
Cc: ..........
Subject: Re: (Salmony & Bish) Fwd: $1,000 question: Did the population bomb ever explode?

Steve,

Well, you do rather fall into the, not so tender, scientific trap, when you suppose that humanity can only ever be conceived as a cog in the wheel of some cosmic machine.  

And you may very well be correct in that scientific assessment.  I have no proof to the contrary.  

What I do point out to you is that 99% of humanity does not share that scientific perception.  

Failing the time or resources to indoctrinate the 99% to this mechanical worldview, and failing to have a global CCP to enforce a one-child policy, regardless of what others think, perhaps we need to think outside of that box.  

99% of humanity does believe that we are not machines, and that our ultimate concerns do transcend the purview of science.  

What is it, Steve, that causes you to suppose that humanity could or should harken to a mechanistic understanding of our ultimate concerns, when almost none of us share that worldview?  

I'm guessing that you suppose that procreation can, somehow, be compartmentalized wrt every other human concern.  You may be correct, but I'm sure not seeing the evidence for that pre-supposition.  



On Sep 11, 2013, at 11:49 AM, Steven Earl Salmony wrote:

Dear Dan,

I do not believe science can answer 'ultimate' questions, but adequate science can disclose to us how the human species is placed within the order of living things on Earth as well as how the world we inhabit works.  Needless to say, from time to time science presents us with "inconvenient truths", truth that does not support widely shared and consensually validated, self-interested thinking of 'the powers that be".  At the behest of TPTB economists and demographers alike have played not a small role by promulgating dangerous thinking and propping up perilous, distinctly human-induced activities worldwide related to the viability of an endlessly expanding global economy and the sustainability of current human population growth, despite virtual mountains of scientific evidence to the contrary. Acknowledging inconvenient truths require uncompromised intellectual honesty, an attribute that too few among the brightest and best possess in our time.

Always,

Steve  

From: Dan
Date: September 11, 2013, 1:28:55 PM EDT
To: John Taves
Cc: ..........
Subject: Re: (Salmony & Bish) Fwd: $1,000 question: Did the population bomb ever explode?

John,  

How then do you explain that the global fertility rate continues to decline toward or below a replacement level?  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_fertility_rate

Someone must be doing the math.  Or is there an invisible hand....?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand  



On Sep 11, 2013, at 1:06 PM, John Taves wrote:

99% of the people have no clue that when you create 3 children you are attempting to grow the next generation by 50% and that attempt is a deadly act on a finite sized planet. They have no clue because it is not taught. It is not taught because our scientists don't know this. It should not be that hard to get this across to scientists. Yes, they do act the same as everyone else with respect to beliefs and biases, but they do attempt and say they want to be logical.

jt

From: Dan
Date: September 11, 2013, 2:43:31 PM EDT
To: Steven Earl Salmony
Cc: ........
Subject: Re: (Salmony & Bish) Fwd: $1,000 question: Did the population bomb ever explode?

Steve,

Yes, science can, indeed, delineate a population/resource crisis.  But, do we not all agree that science does not provide a solution to the problem, beyond explaining the mechanics of birth control?  

We need more than mechanics to solve this problem.  We need a motivational paradigm that will engage the full attention of humanity in coming to grips with its own destiny.  

Science has no clue about human motivation or destiny.  So then what do we do?  

Forcing population science upon the masses, even if possible, would prove nothing, if not just being a colossal waste of very limited educational, media resources.  




On Sep 11, 2013, at 2:11 PM, Steven Earl Salmony wrote:

Dear Dan,

You report,
>> What is it, Steve, that causes you to suppose that humanity could or should harken to a mechanistic understanding of our ultimate concerns, when almost none of us share that worldview?<<
 
I said that science cannot address ultimate questions, or concerns.

Always,

Steve

(cont.)

From: Dan
Date: September 11, 2013, 4:38:12 PM EDT
To: Steven Earl Salmony
Cc: ........
Subject: Re: (Salmony & Bish) Fwd: $1,000 question: Did the population bomb ever explode?

Yes, Steve, of course good science can help to rectify both ignorance and bad science. But you keep avoiding the agreed fact that even the best possible science, given the optimal dissemination, will not solve our existential crisis.

Thus are you promulgating a partial solution as if it were the whole solution. This is not an outright fraud, but it is borderline.

What I am stating is that you are practicing management by directive, rather than management by objective. You are treating your fellow humans as if they were children, who needed your micro-management, such as..... do not cross the street without looking both ways!

You are employing a 19th century management tool to solve a 21st century social problem.

What is the objective? What is the objective that we all share? Is there any reason for our being alive, here, together?

If not, then what can you or science tell us, other than we will all die alone, and for nothing?

Is this a message that will stir the human soul, that will motivate us to sacrifice?



On Sep 11, 2013, at 3:30 PM, Steven Earl Salmony wrote:

Dear Dan,

I disagree. The broadcasting of pseudoscience (by those deceitfully using the imprimatur of science) during much of my lifetime has a lot to do with the sheer size of the now colossal global predicament in which we find ourselves. The last 40 - 50 years have been critical, in a disastrous sense, because scientists in great numbers did not stand up for science nor did they discredit self-proclaimed experts (not scientists) who were allowed to speak out unchallenged in the name of science. This situation has been a most unfortunate and unforgiveable one. The cost of silence by people of science who knew better over this time period is inestimable.

The best available scientific knowledge will surely help us understand the necessity for 'changing course', or as Rachel Carson described it, for taking "the road less traveled". All that needs to be done could have been accomplished with much less risk to human wellbeing and environmental health at the beginning of this timeframe than now. Time is of the essence and yet those who could make a difference appear to be still fiddlin' while the world goes to hell.

Always,

Steve

Subject: Re: (Salmony & Bish) Fwd: $1,000 question: Did the population bomb ever explode?

Steven Earl Salmony wrote:I said that science cannot address ultimate questions, or concerns.

Dan wrote:But, do we not all agree that science does not provide a solution to the problem, beyond explaining the mechanics of birth control? (snip)

Forcing population science upon the masses, even if possible, would prove nothing, if not just being a colossal waste of very limited educational, media resources.

John Taves wrote:99% of the people have no clue that when you create 3 children you are attempting to grow the next generation by 50% and that attempt is a deadly act on a finite sized planet. They have no clue because it is not taught. It is not taught because our scientists don't know this. It should not be that hard to get this across to scientists. Yes, they do act the same as everyone else with respect to beliefs and biases, but they do attempt and say they want to be logical.

Gentlemen let's not beat around the bush here. Western civilization is not half as ignorant as these comments depict it to be. But those attending to the issue of population most certainly are OR they know it as a "death wish" looking for a place to happen.

We do know what multiple children mean to the population. But we also know that it is part of a unspoken war of cultures. Those with the greater populations and drain upon the worlds resources vie harder to meet their needs. Competition is a survival mechanism. Either you top them or you surrender and speak their language and adopt their culture because there are more ways to be conquered than to lose in a hot war.

For instance the conscription of governance here in our own nation by a transnational culture who's roots can be traced back to both Fabian socialism and the nazi international among a few other branches, including the shadow world of Jesuit Christianity and Satanism. The lines of societal control are being drawn as we speak on the issue of population and prevention of implosion prior to unambiguous contact, along side self-protection of the inherent corruption.

A family who participates in opposition to this culture establishes its generational foothold via lines of descent which will carry a more acceptable set of principles, morality, and endeavors forward through the trials of the future. Thus investment in the future is every available option because for those who have observed the conscription and discovered that the ability to influence through previously established methods of input and effect are no longer available see the current situation as a crisis unacknowledged by the leadership in the controlling culture.

This is only one example.

Now there is another matter which pertains to Steven's reply...the "Controlling Culture" I mentioned above has already applied its own solution two which ALL have been subjected without consent. It is a form of weapon of mass destruction...

Didn't ET warn depopulation was not to be enacted via wmd's? Oh they figured it wouldn't be seen as that I suppose...

Reallly? Dr Mercola certainly recognizes it for what it is:

Dr Mercola wrote:Nearly All of the Third-Generation GMO Babies Were Sterile!

But then an even bigger problem became apparent, because nearly all of the third generation hamsters lost the ability to have babies altogether.
Only a single third-generation female hamster gave birth to 16 pups, and of those, one fifth died.
In short, nearly the entire third generation of GM soy eaters were sterile!
But it doesn’t end there.
In the GM soy-fed groups they also found an unusually high prevalence of an otherwise extremely rare phenomenon – hair growing inside the animals’ mouths. (You can see the images here.)
Says Smith:

“… it’s a very rare phenomenon but he [study author, Dr. Surov] had never in his life seen more hair in mouths of hamsters than with these GM soy-fed, third generation hamsters.”

[color][font]
As you may know, genetically modified crops weren’t released until 1996, starting with GM soy, corn and cotton. Modified canola came about a year later.
Please remember humans have MUCH longer life spans than rats and that GMO foods were only introduced in 1996.  This is LESS than one generation.
So we’re still nowhere near seeing the full effects of these potential ramifications in humans, as we’re only about 15 years into it. But if the effects are anything like the effects on numerous types of animals, we could be looking at sterility on a grand scale as our great-grandchildren grow up and begin to try to procreate...
The fact that the US is completely unwilling to implement the precautionary principle with regards to GM foods is incomprehensible in light of the findings we already have from animal studies.[/font][/color]

Source: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/05/22/jeffrey-smith-interview-april-24.aspx#!

Thanks Dan,

Yes, I can appreciate the PtB would like to keep tabs on the best possible time to hibernate, as well to being informed that best possible drones will protect their dying species from poachers dressed in snow leopard military gear.

It's a day job, but someone has to do it.

And so Today's News;

Reflecting Cy's comments above, we have...
Senator Barbara Mikulski apologizes for Monsanto Protection Act

Of Course the Biggest News today is the Global Politician of the Year, surprise!
The Op-Pages

And Today's Entertainment Feature;

Hi Dan & Jake,

I ran across an interesting bit of info today, early this A.M. actually but lost the post so I didn't have time till now pass it around for comment - spent my afternoon drowning wool maggot infestation on a lamb. I could crack a "what's grosser than gross" between wool maggots vs political maggots joke here but I'll spare everyone.

Anyway, here's the link: http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2013/09/us-troops-in-ft-hood-receive-orders-to-deploy-to-syria-2712596.html

Here is a couple quotes from the article:

Before It's News - The Daily Rant - Mychal Massie wrote:I have been able to verify something extremely troubling in the past 12 hours. A close and verifiable source contacted me to lament the deployment of a friend from Ft. Hood to Egypt, where this particular soldier will be for the next nine months. We have no military base in Egypt, so we’re all trying to understand the assignment and wonder if he and the other 400 soldiers are living in a tent in the desert, and if they are, how do they receive supplies, from everything to food, water, ammunition, and fuel to conduct whatever mission they are to fulfill, for I cannot imagine a C-140 being allowed to land at Cairo International.

The following information has been sourced thoroughly. This particular soldier said that while he was not really thrilled about the assignment to Egypt, it was better than the soldiers that remained at the military base BECAUSE THEY HAD JUST RECEIVED THEIR DEPLOYMENT ORDERS TO GO TO SYRIA. That certainly contradicts the posturing and false reassurances and table-pounding of Obama and Kerry, does it not?


-snip-

The courteous words chosen by the media due to the vomit coming from the State Department is that the people involved in the civil war with Assad in Syria are “rebels” and “the opposition”, when in fact it’s a collection of warring, tribal jihadists composed of Hezbollah, Hamas, Al Qaeda, Ansar al-Sharia, Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, and the Muslim Brotherhood, remember them? They’re the group the Obama administration enabled to take over Libya and Egypt. To put it tamely, just because they’re all radical Islamic groups does not mean they all get along.

Clearly, the gun running operation CIA operative (NOT Ambassador) Christopher Stevens oversaw out of the pseudo-embassy in Benghazi was funneling guns to the Muslim Brotherhood in Syria, which drew the ire of Ansar al-Sharia, which bears responsibility for the Benghazi attacks. Clearly it is the jihadist group of his choice, as Obama tried his hand at yet another government-overthrow. Now it becomes clearer why Susan Rice was sent out to lie to the press with an elementary school alibi, why Hillary Clinton screeched at a Congressional oversight committee, and why the surviving operatives of the embassy attack have been placed under deep cover and from whom we will never hear. The administration was funding yet another proxy war with a poorly conceived operation and it blew up in its face.

n fact, Germany’s Der Spiegel just released copies of certain intelligence intercepts this morning proving the Assad did NOT authorize the use of chemical weapons and in fact was strongly opposed to doing so. Its intelligence gathering clearly shows that the use of nerve gas was by one of the rag-tag rebel groups, instead. Gee, I can’t imagine the Muslim Brotherhood resorting to such barbaric techniques, can you

-snip-

And don’t forget: the man who lied about gun running to the Mexican cartels, IRS targeting, the contents of the health care bill, NSA eavesdropping, is the same psychopath that assured Americans there would be “no boots on the ground”, and that it will be a very small, strategic attack.

Why, then, do soldiers at Ft. Hood already have in hand their deployment assignments to go to Syria?

Deployment to Syria AND Egypt. And the Muslim Brotherhood...there's those Nazis International proteges again...gotta have a foot in the door in every major culture? Is that how it works?

Shrug.

Add all that to beta testing drone usage to kill poachers? For the moment the definition of "poachers" involves illegal harvesters of protected endangered species...but what happens when we must finally face DHS's definition of "poachers" which means anyone on some list because of political differences here in the US? For example the joint military & civilian emergency services practices in major american cities where the general public is referred to as "zombies" or political opposition to tyranny and corruption are called "terrorists" and some are currently experiencing seeing unmarked military type helicopters over-fly their general vicinity in patterns that bring back memories of Vietnam era reconn patterns? Not to mention the Russian door to door thang. And has anyone forgotten the census folks who were out last census with gps marking house locations on their little handhelds of all the homes the neighbors knew were gun owning?

Just another day in paradise.

• Florida Police Run Terrorism Drill With Sovereign Citizens In Their Gun Sights (Shocking Videos)
  

or this:

Obamacare's Here - Hand Over Your Guns
Did you know that Obamacare now requires your doctors to ask you about your weapons? Whatever happened to the 2nd Amendment? A well informed American turned the examination around yesterday when his own doctor asked him these questions: “Do you have firearms in your home? Is there domestic violence in your home?” Our informed American responded: “What kind of form is this? Is this a govt form? Is this tied to Obamacare?” The nurse replied that yes, indeed this was a standard govt form and that they are now required to ask these questions of their patients. Welcome to Obama’s ‘New America’.

From: Dan
Date: September 12, 2013, 7:09:34 PM EDT
To: Steven Earl Salmony
Cc: ...........
Subject: Re: (Salmony & Bish) Fwd: $1,000 question: Did the population bomb ever explode?

Steve,

In an NYT op-ed piece, yesterday, V. Putin pointed to American exceptionalism as a dangerous idea.  Most of us would agree.  

Another dangerous idea, that is frequently referenced in the CoF, is human exceptionalism.  

Conservatively, we should not be pursuing this risky idea, but we have, since day one, with the agricultural revolution, been putting the pedal to the metal, going for broke.  Yes, heading full speed for the brick-wall of population overshoot.  

It would be a miracle to turn this ship around, in time.  The scientific community has been given more than ample warning, but, no, they have missed every signal.  What can we do now, cry over spilt milk?  

End of story?  But, still, what a story!  We came a long way, baby, all the way out of the muck..... to Mozart.  Not a bad run.  It's just a shame that the ending is going to have to be quite so nasty.  

Yes, the force was with us, up until........ just about now.  And, yes, Mozart was exceptional, and so were we.  Our luck just ran out...... well, we ran out of progress.  

And now we have an incredible global communications network, just in time to watch ourselves go belly-up, in living color, and on youtube.  

Is there not more than a little irony in the grand futility of our communications revolution?  Now we can tweet our own funeral!  Have we nothing to tell ourselves, except how exceptionally stupid we were?  

How do we go from exceptional intelligence to exceptional stupidity, in just about one news-cycle?  The life force was blowing full in our sails, and then, in a trice, we take this nasty jibe, capsizing in the process.  'Twas a shame.  

But, if you ask me, honestly, I suspect there is something wrong with this picture.  If, indeed, Mozart was exceptional, science cannot explain him, nor us, nor can it tell us that life is an absurdity in meaningless universe, wherein you and I are no more than meat machines.  I'm sorry, but, no, I'm not quite convinced that life computes.  I don't think Mozart computes.  It's just a hunch that I have.  

Something has been pulling our strings, lo' these many aeons, and there is still one big string left to pull.  It's hard not to notice, and I doubt that I'm the only one.  

From: Dan
Date: September 13, 2013, 8:04:35 AM EDT
To: Robin Datta
Cc: .... CoF........
Subject: Limits of science?

Robin et al.........

Are you suggesting to us that the MEPP can explain human existence, and the termination thereof? I detect just a smidgen of scientific arrogance.

And, in the meantime, the very best and brightest idea that the CoF has come up with, so far, is to propose a UN sanctioned, coercive population control measure. Yes, how do we spell D-E-S-P-E-R-A-T-I-O-N?

At this point in human history, what else can a scientist do, other than despair of the future?

So, am I suggesting that I know something that the best and brightest scientists do not know?

Yes, I understand, better than most, the limits of computation and reductionism, and certainly no one on this list has a clue about these limits. If you did, you would not be throwing around half-baked notions like the MEPP, and thereby supposing that you know more about life than anyone else on this planet.

It is only your scientific arrogance that is causing you to gnash your teeth and have sleepless nights. Get over it.

There is more under the Sun, Robin, then is dreamt of, in your Bio-Physical Economics.



On Sep 12, 2013, at 9:13 PM, Robin Datta wrote:

“It would be a miracle to turn this ship around, in time.”

That bit of Hope™ clutches at the nonzero probability of a bottleneck (vis-à-vis NTE). But not to worry about population any more: dieoff/dieback is conjoined to overshoot, and Nature Bats Last™, sans fanfare, sans debate, sans planning and sans implementation.

“Yes, the force was with us, up until........ just about now.”

Actually it's been the boss since the Big Bang, and it's tenure does not run out till the 'ol Heat Death of the Universe: The Second Law of Thermodynamics™ always accompanied by its sidekick, the Maximum Entropy Production Principle™.

(cont.)

Cy,

Are you aware that, on this forum, you are the source of unrelieved gloom and doom?  

Yes, OMF II is rather like my other forum or email list, Circle of Friends, posted above, more of the same, unrelieved doom and gloom.  

What is going on here?  Am I a gloom and doom magnet?  What better comeuppance for a Polyanna, that to be surrounded by a jeremiad of Cassandras?  

Did you never awaken in the middle of the night and wonder, with all this doom and gloom, how did we ever get here?  There must be a source of light.  

Have you ever thought about searching for that Source?

From: Dan
Date: September 13, 2013, 9:55:10 AM EDT
To: Robin Datta
Cc: ..........
Subject: Re: Limits of science?

Robin,

Now you are floundering.........

But, yes, thank you for finally revealing your true colors.  Now I have gained considerable insight into the neuroses of, I'm willing to wager, most everyone on this list.  And this is no small victory on my part.  It has required >2 years of very considerable patience, but that is my middle name..... I'm a trooper.  

Your population neurosis is just the result of your deist inspired Cartesian dualism, which also just happens to be the metaphysical foundation of our Modern worldview.  

Yes, there are one or two non-dualists on this list, e.g. Paul C, and you'll notice that he is not getting his knickers in a bunch, now is he?  He finds all our desperation to be mildly amusing, bless his heart!  

Look, I understand identity politics, and I understand how much we all love to identify with our neuroses....... but, still, when is enough, enough?

When, I ask, will even just one of you be willing to admit that you might possibly be barking up the wrong tree?  

Wrong tree....?  

Yes, you are trying to find a technical solution to a non-technical problem, unless, as every professional scientist is paid to believe, you also believe that you and your fellow humans are Skinnerian meat-machines.  

If that were the case, then, yes, your only hope would be to replace the United Nations with the Chinese Communist Party.  

I'll bet that at least half of you on this list would jump at that opportunity, if you thought it had even a snowball's chance.  

So, here I sit, waiting for one of you to question your presupposition that we are Skinnerian meat-machines.  

11:15---------

Ok, I am on a bit of roll, but that usually doesn't last long, now does it?  

But, yes, if I can keep these little dots connected, then, yes, it will be time for some bigger dots, Lord willing.  

It's not what we know, it is who we know, and if I know Jesus and Prince Harry, then that could begin to add up.  


And, now, I just got off the phone with the Princess, as we are planning our next LotP radio show, which will be on Syria.  Like I say, it's not always about what you know..........


And here is the latest from my Penguin buddy, Mr Non-lethal........

From: John
Date: September 13, 2013, 11:24:51 AM EDT
To:
Subject: Fwd: Shamans and Voodoo

Folks

As most of you know we have just returned from two trips.  There was on for three weeks in Mongolia with local shamans followed by three weeks in Togo and Benin exploring voodoo.  I have now posted fairly lengthy reports on my web site.  Just go to the bottom of the first page and click on the underlined links.

www.johnbalexander.com

We saw some amazing things and have a lot of video that will come later.

If not interested please disregard.  Feel free to past the information on to others.

Thanx

John Alexander

(cont.)

We inhabit the reality of the Source Dan, it's here right now, always has been, amid every molecule and atom and more.

If you think I'm doom and gloom, then you don't actually read what I write - there goes my broken record again. The information I post to the conversation is a huge contributing factor which most people of the intellectual community either are fully unaware or they are deliberately ignoring. And so they are basing their opinions and decisions on half-cocked data sets.

That isn't being doom and gloom Dan, its called being thorough.

You and your BPWH wants to join up with the Source as a solution to population overload, BUT you have a really hard time with something as simple as more complete data sets.

I'd have chosen to be born human to see how this this little conundrum, alone, works out. Can we say square peg in round hole? Nope, we're too busy yelling "Doom & Gloom!" or "Conspiracy Theorist!" Phooey! Get over it! Says I. May I politely suggest you have alot to learn about the Source?

Especially when Human Exceptionalism was ITS idea originally.

From: Dan
Date: September 13, 2013, 12:19:41 PM EDT
To: Robin Datta
Cc: .........
Subject: Re: Limits of science?

Robin et al........

All that you are proving is that you have mostly been dishonest, up to now, concerning your agenda wrt the Circle of Friends..........

And you are not the only one on this list who has been hiding their lamp under this population Bushel, or so I strongly suspect.  

My mission, should I choose to accept it, is to smoke out the rest of you, closet metaphysicians.

Look, sports fans, none of you would not be here, if you did not have some serious under-armor.  

Ye, who venture into the land of Ultimate Concerns, had best be sure that your loins are well girded.  Or, IOW, if you can't stand the heat, it's best to not be in the Kitchen.  

This is the only reason that I am here, because I've always wanted to be where the action is.  

So, yes, if you think that human salvation is about reprogramming our little Skinner boxes, then I think you will have another thought coming, real soon.....!  

You all claim to be hewing to the Scientific path, and you pretend to wonder where are all the other scientists.  I think you actually know where they are.  They are only trying to keep their heads down.  If you actually want to keep you head down, then you should have chosen another hobby, other than population control.  Am I right about this?  

Cy,

Every human, worth that appellation, is, at least a human exceptionalist, or, equally likely, a self-exceptionalist.  

The pantheists and materialists come up with a lot of nonsense to refute exceptionalism, but, trust me, it is a lot of intellectual gas.  Actually, psychologically, it is nothing more than reverse snobbism.  

But, ok, Cy, you speak of the Source, as if you were on a first name basis.  Well, I consider myself to be on a first name basis with Jesus.  Are you suggesting that you have a better Source...... historically speaking??

From: Dan
Date: September 13, 2013, 1:07:44 PM EDT
To: Robin Datta
Cc: .......
Subject: Re: Limits of science?

Robin,

1.) I cannot prove that I am not a meat-robot. The first person to prove that, incontestably, will own the future of humanity.

2.) However, I do have faith that the so-called 'modern' worldview is about to receive its comeuppance.

3.) It should also be patently clear that no one can save humanity until they are quite clear about whether or not we humans are Skinnerian meat-robots.

John Taves continues to believe that humans are not even robots, because robots know how to multiply, and John, quite sincerely, mind you, believes that we do not know our multiplication table. And he has appointed himself to teach us our times-table, bless his heart.

(cont.)

I am on a first name basis only as much as any other person is.

You would accuse me of spiritual or theological exceptional-ism just because I'm observant enough to notice when I'm engaged or when someone else is? Is that supposed to make me a greater or lesser person because other people choose to run around like horses in harness complete with the blinders so they're by hook or crook too obtuse to notice?

That'd be funny if it realistically wasn't so pathetic.

Is someone like Jesus a being of lesser state because he took the time to invest teaching in the people of his era the wisdom that could help them rise above the human condition of their time?

How do groups rise collectively? Not just via exposure and interaction to those who've reached a greater degree of observation and intellectual or spiritual acumen. Essentially sharing. Not isolation or exclusion.

Cy,

I'll try to keep this simple........

Can you name any historical individual who has better conveyed the presence of the Source than has Jesus?  

Is making such a personal conveyance important?  Has there been anything more important, in the course of human events?

dan wrote:Cy,

I'll try to keep this simple........

Can you name any historical individual who has better conveyed the presence of the Source than has Jesus?  

Is making such a personal conveyance important?  Has there been anything more important, in the course of human events?

ah, the who is better than who question a no win offensive, so that it can then be conscripted and used to corner individuals into molds they may or may not fit, outside of their free will?

According to Jake you don't believe in Jesus's teachings so what's the point of this exercise?

Cy,

I think we all agree that we are facing an unprecedented, existential challenge.  

In order to surmount or even survive this challenge, we will need a new world order.  

This novus ordo seclorum will be possible only if we can reorient ourselves to our Source.  There is little doubt that we have become seriously disoriented, in that regard.  

Will this reorientation be possible without reference to visionary leadership, past and present?

From: Dan
Date: September 14, 2013, 12:11:54 PM EDT
To: Steven Earl Salmony
Cc: ...........
Subject: Re: Limits of science?

Steve,

What are friends for, other than friendly candor?  

I am simply pointing out that science and technology have succeeded in placing us in an unprecedented existential bind relative to population and resources, often referred to as 'overshoot'.  

Will better science and technology get us out of this bind?  Perhaps they will.  That is what most of you believe.  

But a case in point is the NYT Op-ed piece referenced by Steve K and Larry, this morning, wherein we witness the non-rebuttable, blithe denial of any problem, seemingly endorsed  by our intellectual establishment.  

I continue to labor under the impression that I have insight into the root of this syndrome of denial that has not elsewhere been demonstrated, to wit.........


(cont......)

From: Dan
Date: September 14, 2013, 12:54:21 PM EDT
To: Steven Earl Salmony
Cc: .........
Subject: Retooling vs retuning (cont.)

(cont........)


Most of you assume that our intellectuals simply have a blind-spot wrt population. We only need to fill in this (strangely?) missing piece of their education.

The underlying assumption is that we are not facing a systemic crisis, but, rather, we just need to retune the system, we won't actually need to retool it. Again, you may be right, but, I'm getting the strong impression that things are not looking good for this 'retuning' scenario.

If I'm right about retooling vs. retuning, would this not explain the great reluctance on the part of our Establishment to tangle with, what they see as the tar-baby of our population/resource crisis?

IOW, the Establishment is much more skeptical that are you about a mere technical solution to our impending existential crisis.

Ok, then, but couldn't at least some of them own up to the depth of our crisis, so that the rest of us could start the serious rethinking that will be necessary to redirect our modern juggernaut?

But rather than a passel of technicians, perhaps we need a visionary? Hey, I'm only guessing, here, I'm only trying to think a little way out of what seems to be our current state of being boxed in.

Well, if you were one amongst the Establishment, how would you go about dealing with the 'Vision' problem?

We have learned through our wars, that in order for a New Order to arise, the Old Order must first be buried.

I think this is commonly understood.

And so determining Who or What is the Old Order and How it could be segregated and buried, is the most compelling question.

If I were G-d, I would not rely on man to figure this out. Man would mess it up, badly.

Overpopulation Is Not the Problem
By Erle C. Ellis


Good One!

A tad exaggerated, but he makes his point.  We are no where near full-capacity yet.  Sure, Manhattan is.  But who cares, so is Malibu.   With our current technology USA/Canada could sustain and comfortably house two billion+.  We've got 350 million now.

Erle's right, limits of population sustenance are socially determined, rather than calculated. Change the social views of living, and all calculations run amuck.

We just need to use our ideas better. Accentuate the positive and eliminate the negative.  Which begs the question - Who truly are the "useless eaters", anyway?  

Erle's hasn't completely lost his mind.  But who has?  Is there a Mr In-Between?  Maybe we should mess with him!

Yes, we can't live on top of each other, unless you like condos.  Eventually we will run out of space. Until we make more space. But where is that elusive limit?  Heck, didn't we break the sound barrier awhile back?  How many other barriers don't exist?  except in our imaginations.

I think the best way to resolve the current population/resource problem is to arrange a mass funeral for all the people who are currently concerned with over population.  That would get rid of the problem.  And they could say they were doing their part.  Then everyone else can go about their business.


.

Jake,

Interesting thought......  how to 'retire' the Old Order......

Yes, I understand that your suggestion is just what the Bible orders..... God's Kingdom arrives on the (still smoldering?) ashes of all of our failed mundane kingdoms.  Don't put new wine in old wineskins, etc.  

And, yes, that may be exactly what is going to happen.  

Nonetheless, I continue to march to another drummer, be it Sophia, Satan or who knows?  

I understand that the Evangelical enterprise appears to be running out of steam, certainly in the 'developed' world.  Christians have done what they can, the rest will be up to God to finish.  

I suspect, however, that God still has a few tricks up his sleeve, short of fire and brimstone.  But, hey, I've been wrong before!


Overpopulation Is Not the Problem........

I agree that it is not THE problem, but, OTOH, I believe that it is symptomatic of a systemic problem with modern Civilization...... We are facing crises on many fronts, and that it will take a miraculous NWO to get us beyond our current existential impasse. Technology, alone, will not save the day.