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Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

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Jake Reason
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Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:41 pm

First topic message reminder :

2:40pm EST

White Smoke 30 min ago.... Watching it live... awaiting the New Pope to walk out on the balcony. Vatican Guards and Italian Naval Soldiers marching on the steps of St.Peters Basilica, to the music of the Marching Band.




--------------------------

edit notice: This thread is the Part Two continuation from the original thread - last post here -

http://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t6p990-hello-cy-hello-omf-ii#2215




Last edited by Jake Reason on Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:59 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Cyrellys on Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:59 pm

GSB/SSR wrote:Dan,

Re: Ron and CIA Publications Review Board protocols on publication by present and former CIA employees

The key protocol here is Reviews Are Not Optional

And so, in consideration of Ron Pandolfi's writing (e-mail) now published at this forum, consider the following:

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/kent-csi/docs/v41i3a01p.htm

The daily "take" logged in by the five-person PRB staff ranges from 1,000-page book manuscripts to one-page letters to the editor. There are speeches, journal articles, theses and op-eds, book reviews, and movie scripts. There are scholarly treatises, works of fiction, and, recently, a cookbook featuring a collection of recipes acquired and served by Agency officers and spouses around the world. Perhaps the most novel review (no pun intended) involved an interactive CD-ROM video spy game co-authored by former Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) William Colby and KGB Gen. Oleg Kalugin.

The reason all this writing is reviewed lies in the Agency's need--and its employees' contractual obligation--to protect sources and methods of collection and analysis.

The courts have ruled, in effect, that prepublication review is the only way to carry out the DCI's statutory mandate consistent with the First Amendment. In addition, prepublication review is essential if the Agency is to uphold the validity of the secrecy agreement CIA staff employees and contractors sign as a condition of employment.

Nor is it optional for the individuals who sign a secrecy agreement to seek the review. It is specifically required to protect the sources and methods of collection and analysis they will learn about and which, if revealed, could cost heavily in lives, resources, and continued access to critical national security information.

The review requirement is spelled out clearly in the secrecy agreement, in which the signer agrees to submit for review any material "I contemplate disclosing publicly or that I have actually prepared for public disclosure, either during my employment...or at any time thereafter, prior to discussing it or showing it to anyone who is not authorized to have access.... I further agree that I will not take any steps toward public disclosure until I have received written permission to do so from the Central Intelligence Agency."


The silence from the CIA PRB to my request (concerning Ron) for clarification roars in response.

FAS published a redacted version of the PRB handbook:

https://www.fas.org/irp/cia/prb-handbook.pdf



Gary, Salute!

and

Steven Aftergood & company dredges up with innumerable gems.

Cy



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"This is an indeterminite problem. How shall I solve it? Pessimistically? Or optimistically? Or a range of probabilities expressed as a curve, or several curves?..........Well.....we're Loonies. Loonies bet. Hell, we have to! They shipped us up and bet us we couldn't stay alive. We fooled 'em. We'll fool 'em again!" Robert Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.



FEMA Orders 200,000 Death Certificates–What For?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfrNGx_nEwA&feature=player_embedded

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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by dan on Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:57 pm

From: Ron
Date: December 10, 2013, 4:13:59 PM EST
To: Dan
Subject: Please post the following account by Princess Aliyah

At 2 pm on Wednesday November 20th I approached the crime scene. I had been holding a meeting of the Leadership Team at the security headquarters in Kruger when the call came in that a Rhino had been killed. Rangers, veterinarians and police were being called to the crime scene, and I was asked to go along. I was about to witness an Autopsy.

As our vehicle approached, I felt a sense of realism and rage. We were in Kruger National Park to learn how we could help stop poaching, but until now poaching has been something rather abstract. Now it was real. Rhino Kino lay dead in front of me. Yesterday he was one of the few remaining rhinos in Kruger, enjoying life with his family and friends. Last night he was shot by a poacher, a high caliper round shattering the bone in his leg. Kino fought the pain stumbling through the bush to evade the poachers. He was discovered in the morning by rangers who had responded to the gun shot. Veterinarians were called in, but the damage was too extreme. Kino had collapsed to the floor. Kino was in pain and waiting for death.

Veterinarians were gathered around Kino. There were excited because a fresh rhino carcass was very rare. The Head Vet explained that he had to put Kino down at 10 am. Now they needed to extract the bullet to send off to the crime lab. They also were going to use the opportunity to determine the health of Kino before his death, testing for various rhino diseases that might have entered Kruger.

I jumped out of the vehicle to the sight of a majestic creature sleeping forever. Earlier that morning I had heard about how difficult life was for people across the border in Mozambique. It was a story that was intended to evoke sympathy for poachers in search of a better life. Seeing Kino clarified the reality that poachers are members criminal networks, engaged in trafficking wildlife, humans, narcotics, weapons, and whatever else the network finds profitable. They are driving Mercedes while the millions of poor around them are starving. I felt shivers down my spine and realized how brutal these poachers are. I wanted to be in the field, tracking down the poachers who had shot Kino the night before intending to hack off his horn for profit.

A moment of silence for Kino made me realize the world is now working together on finding a solution through the Wildlife Conservation UAV Challenge. I am not alone in my love and passion for the freedom of wildlife. We have nearly 100 Teams in over 20 countries and 6 continents in less than 2 months committed to fighting for wildlife and justice. Together we can win this war!

Thank you wcUAVc Leadership, Teams, Sponsors, Supporters, Volunteers and all those who wake up to make a positive difference each and everyday.

A special thanks for the wcUAVc Team that joined me on this journey - Scott LB Williams of Reserve Protection Agency, Casper van Zyl of Global Unmanned Systems, Larry Wirsing & John Glezellis of Aurora Flight Sciences, and Justin Leto of Nova Labs and my daughter Kashmir Rose the youngest counter poacher Safari Kid in the world of Kashmir Robotics!

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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by dan on Wed Dec 11, 2013 7:36 am

Now I'm under some pressure to be the guest on the next LotP show on WolfSpirit.  We haven't been able to think of anyone to be on with the Princess and me.  But no one would or could be dispassionate, and everyone negatively so.  I'd better touch base with the hostess.  

Craig is on his way back to Stockholm.  It was a very helpful encounter, but mainly just for me, it seems.  This was my most extended encounter with a professional philosopher, even if just for a few hours.  It afforded me a special window into a quasi-academic mind.  There, but by the grace of Sophia, went I.  

Talking to the Princess, she suggests following Ron's idea for the title.... maniac or messiah? She and I could compare our early childhoods, or up until our respective meetings with the Pelican and with each other.



(cont.)

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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:22 am

Since the weekend, I've been having difficulty surfing this forum immediately after logging-on.  The "Facebook" plug-in is so aggressive in gaining control of my browser without success, that it subsequently hangs the IE browser, whereas all I can do is "control-alt-delete" and shut it down.  Looks like I'll have to stay with Firefox from now on. I presume it possible that if I were to simply join Facebook, all would be OK.  But I will never do that.

Now to the conversations here....

dan wrote:Jake,

Ron used your sympatico address, and it was bounced back.  Is your zoho address your current one?  
Thanks Dan,
Yes, sympatico has been gone for 2 years.  Zoho is my only Jake Reason email address.  For personal, I have my company server.


Your basic misunderstanding here, Jake, is to confuse drone with predator.  The WCUAVC is specifically for surveilance.
No, no confusion.  I understand what they are trying to achieve.  "Compact" is the way to go.

And FYI, compact (approx 4 feet diameter) helicopter type drones, carrying a fully operational machine gun, with remote camera, has already been developed by the Russians.  You can watch it operate on YouTube.

It can zoom in to hover within 10 feet of someone sneaking through the woods and blast them to pieces with 30-40 rounds within seconds.

Its very cool if you like killing machines.  But to me its rather sic.  And the enthusiastic salesman demonstrating it, is quite demented imo.


However, as the Princess migrates her operation to other, more remote venues, it could conceivably become necessary to weaponize the drones.  But I doubt that this would be done on the sly, and clearly it would mandate a high level of authorization.  We'll just have to stay tuned.  
Authorization can be bought or negotiated.  The hardest part will be the altitude and weather - the technological development required to make them functional in such extremes.


.


Last edited by Jake Reason on Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by dan on Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:45 am

From: Dan Smith
Date: December 11, 2013, 10:38:22 AM EST
To: Princess Aliyah
Cc: Ron, Jack, Bill, Paul, David, Dick

Subject: Fwd: Leopards on the Prowl -- Dan Smith, Maniac or Mesiah

Princess,

When I spoke with you, a few minutes ago, I had forgotten about this exchange.  Yes, Jack's contribution could fit in with the MorM theme, Jack being the Maniac, of course.  Maybe we could give Jack a 2' slot, which he would try to stretch into 20'.  

I'm thinking that you and I could start in the present, and then proceed with flashbacks to our early years.  I particularly like your encounter with your 'fortune-telling grandfather' at age three.  Understanding that, for poor little me, most of my spiritual experience has turned out to be vicarious.  

But, no, I am warming a bit to Jack's participation.  He would be sure to enliven the show, and with you and me together at this end, we could maybe keep him on a shorter leash, this time around.  Isn't that right, Jack?  

In some ways, Jack's early years provide a complement to mine.  There was the passing of the (maniac?) baton, with my encounter with his 'comic-book', ST&B, in 1975.  


Dan


Begin forwarded message:

From: JACK SARFATTI
Date: December 10, 2013, 7:23:34 PM EST
To: Ronald
Cc: Dan, Bill
Subject: Re: Leopards on the Prowl -- Dan Smith, Maniac or Mesiah

Messiah two s’s.

Dan can be both simultaneously - like Schrodinger’s Cat - a giant Qubit.


On Dec 10, 2013, at 4:22 PM, JACK SARFATTI wrote:

;-) depends when exactly
pretty busy writing Stargate book & it’s holiday season - Angela is big on British Xmas & I have a lot of things to do with her till Xmas Day.

On Dec 10, 2013, at 3:40 PM, Ronald wrote:

Hi Jack,

The next episode of Leopards on the Prowl will review Dan's life up until the time when he reads your book and terminates advanced study of Physics.  Would you like to be a guest on the show?

Ron


From: Dan Smith
Date: December 11, 2013, 1:13:35 PM EST
To: Dick
Cc: nine others.........
Subject: Re: Leopards on the Prowl -- Dan Smith, Maniac or Mesiah

Dick,

Oh, dear, did I put you on the cc? A Freudian slip..... Please accept my apologies.



On Dec 11, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Dick (CloudRider) wrote:

There's a relevant update for Jack at the end of this... "Eight ball in the corner pocket, Captain Jack."

You can do "wolf pack radio" all day long but if you get interviewed by Ralph Blumenthal, you're famouser.

Dan is a Golem? Jacob Sarfatti, Rabbi to the Cosmos, can explain all of this to all of us, I have no doubt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem

With all due respect, guys (and gal ;-)... and the point of including me in this Narcississtic fantasy is....?

As do so many others who've expressed similar sentiments... I find this sidebar, well, ....zzzzzzz. But...

Personally, if you're going to do a radio show about Dan and how his once-ordered "physicist-in-training" mind was disheveled upon reading Jack's book (actually, I also read that book... but not being a wannabe physicist scion of anal retentive Eisenhower economics officials, gray flannel plutocrat or "fortune teller," ... Hey, I'm just simple country reporter chasing down crime and slime stories about faux "ETs" ;-... I found Jack's book interesting and, upon running across him online in the mid1990s, certainly noteworthy). Alas.

After "Forrest Gumping" into the Human Potential Foundation's little foray into the Clinton White House, and running across Ron at the Psychocorrection symposium we did (when he tagged along with Kit or vice versa) and later on the other side of the "Rockefeller UFO Disclosure Initiative" when Ron got in over his head with Jack Gibbons' shop, such that Bootsie had to come out of retirement and help save Laurance from himself... and later on with the "Put a tiger in your poacher..." op in the Russian Far East, well... nothing surprises me.

And well, the "rest of the story" is boring, having lived it, and now we're looking at what comes next, now that John Podesta... he of "UFO/ET disclosure" initiative with the Sci-Fi Channel, Leslie Kean, et al.,... is moving back into the White House to help rescue B. Hussein Obama-bin-Lyin', as his critics call our President, get out of his political pickle barrel. You can bet that Steve Bassett and his backers are taking notice, so those folks who now "have the con" (pun and double entendre' intended ;-) of keeping UFOs secret and baffling are advised to go "wheels up" and get your saucers soaring again. Haven't had many "abductions" lately, either.

The up side of Dan's meandering "beyond the fringe" and back again, where he bumps into Ron's mirrors (as in "Wilderness of ______"), is that he's in his own way another "Forrest Gump" character, as indeed are all of us who wander in these provinces.

Remember, as Tolkien wrote: "Not all who wander are lost."

Indeed, square dancing with Kashmiri princesses, spooky scientists and clandestine nobodies who indeed are somebodies, makes for a classic Spider Robinson tale, or even one of the aforementioned Tolkien's. In the latter case, who is Dan... and indeed, who are we all? Is Dan a "Golem?" Are "The Grays" golems, too?

How do the djin of Islam compare to Greer's, Bassett's and Bruce Maccabee's "ETs?" Are these what the fundamentalist Christians believe are the "End Times" (again!) or but a "Collins Elite" political deception.

Speaking of snow leopards... of course you know it is the "National Predator" of Pakistan? Random tidbit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_leopard

Into this miasma, Ron is launching "conservation drones" to patrol the Kashmiri skies, targeting evil doers who seek to poach snow leopards... which reminds me of a rather low caliber movie another wag mentioned.

Perhaps it's the inspiration for this gig?

It's rumored to be called "Search for the Snow Leopard," and it starred a brilliant woman and actress named Asia Carrera. I've not seen the film... not really my cup of tea... but perhaps Dan can hunt it down and give us all a review of whether there is any resemblance to the drama unfolding along the frontiers of Kashmir?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asia_Carrera

Until then, Dan. No need to keep me so closely posted about your outpatient treatment and adventures.

;-)

DF

PS -- Princess Aliyah ought to invite journalist Joby Warrick to cover your Snow Leopard drone initiative.

No doubt Ron knows Joby, who is a "good guy." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joby_Warrick

Joby has some experience covering "clandestine" cover ops, especially those which go awry.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/16/entertainment/la-et-book-joby-warrick-20110716 (The Triple Agent)

Indeed, if something screws up with what y'all are up to, no doubt it'll be Joby who'll cover the story.

Might as well get him up to speed and in the loop (with apologies to Dan: No, Danny, I didn't mean you).

Of course, if you're REALLY serious (and this applies to Jack, as well), the may to bring into your gig is Ralph Blumenthal, of the New York Times. Ralph did the Vanity Fair piece about John Mack in May 2013.

http://johnemackinstitute.org/2013/05/vanity-fair-feature-article-about-harvards-dr-john-mack/

Note Leslie Kean's comment quoted at this (above) site. Leslie is John Podesta's former UFO/ET colleague.

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/05/americans-alien-abduction-science

- - - - + Note




Last edited by dan on Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:25 am

skaizlimit wrote:Now back to the flack I got from Jake.  Jake, in that you hastily labeled me a KKK dude, let me assume that you've never actually met a real KKK member.
I've not met a KKK member, but have met KKK sympathizers.  The type that would discuss it gentlemanly with academic, anthropological and historic reasoning for its philosophy.

I was not labeling you per say, I was simply responding to a put-down given him at the time of his death.  Customarily in my social circles this would be considered inappropriate timing.  And so I thought I'd hit the nail-on-the-head (the root cause) for most people's contentions with the life and work of Mandela.  And I thought comedy might be the best way to express it.

However you are correct I have never met anyone like a Metzger protege......

I've met one, knew him for twenty years.  His mother was a native american street walker.  He lived his high school years in the home of Tom and John Metzger.  He was a life long extreme alcoholic, who I watched down an entire fifth of vodka in a half hour.  He was a Jehovah Witness.  He was involved in the on air TV brawl on the Jeraldo show c. 1992 where Jeraldo suffered a broken nose from a chair tossed through the air.  This character died before age 40.  He also had attended a youth training camp for KKK and Aryan Brotherhood, and claims to have deflowered the daughter of a well known Klan leader.  He was a tenant which is how I knew him, and why I watched the Brian Lamb video series on the Tom and John Metzger trial in Oregon in which both were convicted of murder by pamphlet.  That trial video shows Tom Metzger as some sort of demoniac outta some kind of terror movie.  This is my knowledge of the KKK, in which I've never had any involvement.
I was traveling the Pacific and East Asian nations during that year so didn't get any local news until after I returned.  It was 1988.  Heard about Jeraldo's broken nose but not the circumstances.  So I watched it on you-tube a couple days ago.  WOW!

Gee, and I learned a new word - Kyke.  Never heard that in my life.  Had to look it up.  Seriously.... a virtually unknown in Canada.
 

.........let me make it clear that I respect individuals according to their character, not according to their ideologies.  What I see is a mix of Mandela and the Marxist ideology that is being pumped up at present, and thus I choose to have no part in it because of the ideology and not because of the man.
Huh?  Is that a typo or did you just contradict yourself?

Anyway, I think I understand what you're saying.


My ancestors broke away from a tyrannical govt system also, although it was not a racial issue.  Man everywhere is called to rise from slavery.  Mandela deployed the only means available, which sadly was a Marxist ideology.
Yes, so why redicule Mandela on his death?  If it was, by your own judgement, the only way he could achieve the end result?

In my observations, a man's character and ideologies are inseparable.


Leaders of other beliefs that I see as better for mankind have been failing in big ways leaving us all often leaving us to choose the lesser evils to survive.
Yes, sad but true.  Have you figured out why?  Where does thought develop from?  and how is it formed? how is it influenced? what are its roots?

Moses had it all figured out 3400 years ago.  Idolatry is a seductive poison that distorts righteous judgment and severely restricts communion with G-d.

At the moment of the death of Jesus body, the temple curtain miraculously tore from top to bottom.  And Idolaters put it back up again in the 4th century AD.

The beginning of the end of evil will come when man rids itself of idolatry in any and every form.


.


Last edited by Jake Reason on Wed Dec 11, 2013 10:52 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:36 am

skaizlimit wrote:Yes, question:  Metaphysics seems to deal little or not at all with the senses of touch and smell.  How would infinite touch or infinite smell be discussed?
I'd like to read Dan's thoughts on this.

I think this is difficult to answer, without dualism. And I see Dan struggling with the purpose of Atoms. I believe the answer to your question is associated with the question of "why atoms at all?"

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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:41 am

GSB/SSR wrote:Ron Pandolfi is being disingenuous regarding Dan's oft-repeated claim of a connection between their friendship and Ron's day job (presumably somewhere in the world of U.S. intelligence).

As evidence, consider Dan provided (at his original blog) information about government interest in the high-frequency gravity wave project between American researchers and their associates in China. One might argue this was "open" as the original report (published one year after Dan revealed the spy games being played around the persons of interest involved) was For Official Use Only. However, the same report also notes a "classified portion" of Pandolfi's government report (identified with MITRE and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence).

https://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/jason/gravwaves.pdf

All the above is so far from known published government protocols as to be laughable, if not for Ron's identification with the ODNI. One might then ask what protocol allows this unique form of "leaking" information using Dan as "useful" publisher.
I would call it the PtB protocol.  Cool 

It is unpublished and invisible to the surfs. As they are illiterate. The world actually hasn't changed since the feudal times. Just the vocabulary. The contemporary notion that feudalism is something in the past...is an illusion.  Wink 

Shhhhh, don't tell anybody.



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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:45 am

GSB/SSR wrote:Dan,

Re: Ron and CIA Publications Review Board protocols on publication by present and former CIA employees

The key protocol here is Reviews Are Not Optional

And so, in consideration of Ron Pandolfi's writing (e-mail) now published at this forum, consider the following:

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/kent-csi/docs/v41i3a01p.htm

So Smile, we're on Candid Camera!  Cool


--------------------

On a serious note, if there should be a publication problem, I'm sure we could cooperate with requested protocols.

Matthew 22:21


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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:53 am

dan wrote:Skai,  

Are you asking if heaven has been weaponized......?  

Typically, angels and demons eschew firepower.  However, there are rumors of a fatal altercation at the Skinwalker ranch.  

Some of my fellow evangelicals are anticipating an Armageddon, wherein God is expected to contribute to the general mayhem.  Looking at Creation, it does appear to be red in tooth and claw, without any great distress being registered from on high.  
My eschatology view of these Biblical prophecies is more analogous with:

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

The Seals, Trumpets and Vials, all fall within that equation.


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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Wed Dec 11, 2013 9:56 am

[quote="dan"]
From: Ron
Date: December 10, 2013, 4:13:59 PM EST
To: Dan
Subject: Please post the following account by Princess Aliyah

Thank you Aliyah for sharing your experiences with us all.


.

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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by skaizlimit on Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:26 am

Jake, no doubt the Catholic hierarchy has long been rife with corruption, sometimes of the worst sort; however, does this invalidate the Catholic Church, the foundation of which is sacramental and not theological?

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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by skaizlimit on Wed Dec 11, 2013 11:27 am

... should have added "nor judicial".
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by dan on Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:33 pm

Craig has afforded me a singular window into the academic mind, despite his not even being an academic.  He is a bridge thereto.  

He demands miracles, and this is true of most of us moderns.  The psyche and the physics are no substitute.  He is so near, with Simplicity, and, yet, so far.  It is hard for me to fathom that unfathomable gulf.  

Sophia has been important for me, but I never thought of that very minimal encounter as being essential.  Perhaps it was.  At that point, I was rather more open than seems to be the case with Craig.  Is that openness a matter of nature or nuture?  It would be hard to say.  

There is also the question of authority.  Can that not be a substitute for personal experience?  

Who besides the POTUS could serve in that capacity?  The president would simply have to make it clear that he was speaking ex-cathedra, as a spokesperson.  It would simply be to vouchsafe a fait accompli, or to not repudiate it.  Not to stand in the White House door.  Barack seems to be good at that.  No speech necessary, thank you, or not until the shouting was over.  

We did discuss morality, at some length.  Philosophers give much lip-service to ethics, but only to analyze it, not to motivate it.  Scientists try only to rationalize it, sociobiologically.  I don't think anyone is satisfied, except for a handful of point-persons.  

Craig is not satisfied.  He makes no bones about his extra-familial misanthropy.  He is honest to a 't'.  He certainly sees no hope for us who have outsmarted ourselves, one time too many.

He has developed an astute sense of just how far pure thought can move the heart.  Nowhere.  He does philosophy with as much passion as aficionado might devote to a jigsaw puzzle, which can be quite a bit, within strict bounds.  He is not even slightly transgressive about those personal limits.  In that sense, he is more professional than the professionals.  

I've almost forgotten about the SfA, last Sunday. Jeff gave us quite a show with Richard Sternberg's dvd presentation for Science and Faith..... Science, Human Origins and Human Dignity, under the auspices of the Discovery Institute.

He make the point that the biological complexity involved in mophogenesis transcends all computational bounds, and, so, is efectively infinite. Biology does not compute. It is NP-Complete. Thus, he claims, biologists are being forced to reconsider essentialism, vitalism and Aristotelian archetypes. Genetic determinism has thus been transcended. So much for Darwinism.

IOW, the state space for biology must be infinite dimensional, as is the case with the Hilbert space of quantum physics.

The introduction of the self-modification of the genome, as is seen in the case of the spliceosome.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spliceosome is the straw that breaks the camel's back of materialism, in his estimation.

We then discussed the difference between the constructivists and the Platonists in mathematics wrt the reality of infinity. Physicists have a continuing struggle with their own infinities. They try to skirt the issue with various renormalization techniques, and end up contemplating the breakdown of the spacetime manifold.


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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by dan on Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:02 am

From: Dan Smith
Date: December 12, 2013, 9:58:44 AM EST
To: Princess Aliyah
Cc: Ronald and Bill L.  
Subject: Re: Maniac and/or Messiah

Princess,

Ultimately it is up to you, but I am inclined to forge ahead, with or without Jack.  At this point, you and I owe nothing to Jack.  

Yours and my timelines first need to be motivated, which is what we would do first, if you are willing to go ahead with the show on Tuesday.  After that introduction, which could take most of the show, we could do flashbacks to our hearts' content.  

The situation is that no one can help us or hold our hands, other than God/Sophia, herself.  Them that knows can't talk, and them that can talk don't know.  

Call me at your convenience.  We do need to have our ground-rules and other parameters, in place.  

Dan


On Dec 11, 2013, at 9:46 PM, JACK SARFATTI wrote:

right - but remember I'm too busy until Jan 5 or so.

On Dec 11, 2013, at 6:45 PM, Ronald Pandolfi wrote:

Dan,

In preparation for the show, please only cc those who are directly involved.  Leave off the list the usual loons, crooks, and worse.

Jack is essential to the show.  He delivers the key element that corresponds with your transition from physics to metaphysics, and he does it while moving himself closer to real physics and real answers to outstanding problems.

How Jack's book effects different people in different ways is a key element of understanding the Maniac and/or Messiah debate.  It focuses on the process by which bright people separate their thinking from mainstream, and then forge in new directions.  It gets a bit closer than we have yet in explaining we tolerate your insanity.  Your separation from mainstream is what makes your views interesting, and it is what defines you as insane.

V/r,

Ron


In the meantime, the Princess and I need to work on an outline for the show.........

First comes the question of whether or not the world actually needs to be saved.  The jury is still out, on this one.  The Princess and I may have to be both judge and jury, for the present.  We welcome other input.  

Even if there were to be a technological breakthrough of historical proportions, many would agree that technology alone cannot solve the world's problems, and, without a corresponding elevation of the human spirit, the new technology might only render our future more precarious than it already is.  

For instance, the Princess has been very active in promoting the idea of maker-spaces, particularly in connection with the WCUAVC project, which is part of her Al Kareem foundation.  But the new technologies that are driving the maker-space movement can also be used in ways that do not promote a healthy world.  

The point is that the tremendous strides the we have been making in the material aspects of most of our lives, are not being matched in terms of our ability to get along with each other on our increasingly congested and polluted planet.  

In the past, and up to the present time, in many nations, religions of many varieties have provided an essential component of the cohesive bonds that make up any complex social structure.  

But, at the very same time, conflicting religious views are also contributing to the ethnic and sectarian clashes that have become so prevalent in many parts of the world.  

Back in the time of the Enlightenment, most thoughtful people were hopeful that the rise of reason, particularly under the auspices of our rapidly expanding knowledge and advancing technology would pave the way for a Golden Age of peace and prosperity.  

Well, after the horrors of the 20th century, those hopes have largely been replaced by a pervasive fear of our self-destruction, on a global scale.  Many, still in the religious mode of thought, express these rising concerns in the biblical perspective of the apocalyptic Endtimes.   Whilst those of a more secular persuasion are convinced that these apocalyptic preoccupations are likely to become self-fulfilling prophecies.  

Like all other human propensities, our spiritual sensibilities can be both a boon and a bane.  


11:30--------

In my estimation, the crux of the matter comes down to the question of human exceptionalism.  Are we or are we not exceptional beings, in the cosmic scheme?  

I have recently had the opportunity of an extended discussion of this topic with Craig Dilworth, author of Too Smart.  His view is one of unrelieved pessimism.  We have finally managed to outsmart ourselves and we have no one to blame but our own exceptionality, within the natural scheme of things.  

This may well be, and it is the prevailing view amongst our modern minded crew.  

The existentialists suppose that life is an absurdity in a meaningless universe.  And this is simply an amplification of the Darwinian view that the survival of the fittest is a purely ad-hoc process, with no guarantee wrt the future.  Even the thought that evolution might somehow favor increasing complexity is subjective at its core.  

And social Darwinism continues to rear its ugly head, most notably now in the form of Transhumanism.  


5:45---------

Gary calls our attention to the following item........... http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/12/10/john_podesta_returns_to_the_white_house_will_discover_truth_about_aliens.html?wpisrc=burger_bar .

I'm in no position to pooh-pooh Podesta.



(cont.)



Last edited by dan on Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by GSB/SSR on Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:08 am

Dan, Ron's drone project does invite comparison to alleged conservation management of Earth by alleged visitors from "elsewhere." The alleged Skinwalker Ranch drones (from elsewhere?) come to mind, of course.

Reference the following, if this concept fits into your discussion:

A Solution to the Fermi Paradox: The Solar System, part of a Galactic Hypercivilization?

http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0512062v3

Beatriz Gato-Rivera
(Submitted on 7 Dec 2005 (v1), last revised 12 Jan 2006 (this version, v3))
I introduce the Fermi Paradox and some of its solutions. Then I present my own solution which includes two proposals called the Subanthropic Principle and the Undetectability Conjecture. After discussing some consequences of this solution, I make some comments about brane world scenarios and their potential to strengthen the Fermi Paradox. Finally, in the appendix I have included some questions and answers that came up during this Forum. --

Brane Worlds, the Subanthropic Principle and the Undetectability Conjecture

http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0308078v4

Beatriz Gato-Rivera
(Submitted on 19 Aug 2003 (v1), last revised 26 Aug 2004 (this version, v4))
In the recent article `Conflict between anthropic reasoning and observation'(gr-qc/0303070) Ken D. Olum, using some inflation-based ideas and the anthropic premise that we should be typical among all intelligent observers in the Universe, arrives at the puzzling conclusion that `we should find ourselves in a large civilization (of galactic size) where most observers should be, while in fact we do not'. In this note we discuss the intriguing possibility whether we could be in fact immersed in a large civilization without being aware of it. Our conclusion is that this possibility cannot be ruled out provided two conditions are met, that we call the Subanthropic Principle and the Undetectability Conjecture.
-----



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http://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/viewtopic.forum?t=175


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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

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