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Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

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Jake Reason
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Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:41 pm

First topic message reminder :

2:40pm EST

White Smoke 30 min ago.... Watching it live... awaiting the New Pope to walk out on the balcony. Vatican Guards and Italian Naval Soldiers marching on the steps of St.Peters Basilica, to the music of the Marching Band.




--------------------------

edit notice: This thread is the Part Two continuation from the original thread - last post here -

http://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t6p990-hello-cy-hello-omf-ii#2215




Last edited by Jake Reason on Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:59 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by skaizlimit on Fri Dec 06, 2013 4:21 pm

Authority seems to be the underlying issue in these blogs. I once searched the main library at Catholic University of America for academic studies on authority ... there were none. Does this imply that the world's most well known authority does not discuss the issue, but lets it be a foregone conclusion? Could it be a good reference search at this time? Or should we simply abide by the wisdom and insight provided by the late Abbot and Costello in their "Who's On First?"? On the practical level, Constitutional law hands down "innocent until proven guilty"; and this idea relies on common law, which relies on the general public to enliven. That is the present effort in saving the rhinos ... to motivate the general public to lean on the horn sniffers.

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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by skaizlimit on Fri Dec 06, 2013 6:24 pm

Mandela "civilized a nation": Hmn, but someone created that nation long before that. Mandela did something noteworthy, but "civilized a nation" does not seem to be the correct descriptive phrase for whatever he accomplished.
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:31 am

skaizlimit wrote:......the number of rhinos poached this year is one hundred times as many as six years ago!  
Apparently the objective of civilization is to have good laws regardless of whether they have any bearing on reality.
You say there were only between 6 and 10 rhino's poached in 2007? I can't find those reports.

But I have seen that demand has escalated significantly while newly affluent oriental nations grow out of their primitive erroneous beliefs.


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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:41 am

skaizlimit wrote:
I once searched the main library at Catholic University of America for academic studies on authority ... there were none.
Try a Protestant University, their philosophies are more developed.
 

On the practical level, Constitutional law hands down "innocent until proven guilty"; and this idea relies on common law, which relies on the general public to enliven. That is the present effort in saving the rhinos ... to motivate the general public to lean on the horn sniffers.
Yes,
We grew out of hanging teenagers for stealing loaves of bread, quite awhile ago.  But there are always a few that take a little longer to catch up.
 
 

.



Last edited by Jake Reason on Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Sat Dec 07, 2013 7:42 am

skaizlimit wrote:Mandela "civilized a nation":  Hmn, but someone created that nation long before that.  Mandela did something noteworthy, but "civilized a nation" does not seem to be the correct descriptive phrase for whatever he accomplished.
I appreciate that KKK sympathizers are still disappointed.
My condolences
 
 
 
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:45 am

OK, back to where we left off....
 
dan wrote:Jake,

Bless you for helping maintain the semblance of a dialog on these pages.
>
>
When I last checked with you, you were suggesting that we be vouchsafed another millennium of material progress before the X2 event and the advent of God's Millennial kingdom, yielding a total of 2,000 years.  
Not quite that.
 
Rather that the X2 ushers in a millennium of spiritual progress within a material world.  Where everyone eventually learns to walk on water.  Or something like that.
 
I'm a Premillennialist.  =The X2 launches our millennial age of enlightenment.  Which is synonymous with the Age of Aquarius.  I always liked that song.
 
The Postmillennial view however, sees the X2 event at the end of our spiritual progress and the end of the world.  This is the predominate Catholic view.  That the whole world is Catholicised and then Christ returns to take us all home.
 
However my view is that when the whole world is de-Catholicised, the X2 will occur, ushering in a glorious age of progress like we've never fully imagined.  Rapturous.
 

I was then suggesting that your 2,000 years be compressed into 200 years, prior to the Ω/Rapture event.  But since then I have learned that we have been vouchsafed a considerable Thorium energy cushion......

There is as much energy available from our accessible uranium deposits as there is from our remaining fossil fuel deposits.  Furthermore, there is about four times as much available thorium as there is uranium.  

With this in mind, and with continued development of alternate energy sources, we could comfortably postpone the Ω/R event for another thousand years, bringing the BPWH more into alignment with your timeline, provided that our population explosion continues to be abated.  
Yes, I can see how many could think this possible.  However with AI on the brink, and the irrefutable scientific proof of the human soul following closely behind, I can't imagine our way of life to be lasting too much longer.
 

But here is my main caveat, Jake........

Humanity remains poised on the brink of its (self-)destruction, through any number of possible calamities, be they technological, political, biological or what have you.  The risk factors will continue to increase as the per-capita resources continue to be depleted.  

As these resources dwindle, the populations most as risk are those already impoverished.  We are facing an imminent decline in global welfare.  It will take either a technological or a spiritual miracle to turn this situation around.  

What is your preference?  

Let's make this choice quite specific, Jake........

1.)  A technological breakthrough in contolled fusion, or.....

2.)  The Second Coming.  

3.)  #1 & #2!  

What is your preference… #1, 2 or 3?  


Ok, almost everyone would vote for #3, especially if we expanded #2 (= X2) to include 4M/K/SoT.  Yes?  

With #3 in place, we could then expand God's Millennial Kingdom to comfortably include more than 10 billion of us, and extend it for more than the nominal 1,000 years.  

So far so good?  
Well.... I find those choices too simplistic, but I'm following you.
 

I'll even throw in other forms of technological progress, in order to spice the deal.  

But, then there would have to be an additional caveat concerning the ETH, or, more specifically concerning the crucial Small World Hypothesis (SWH) aspect of the BPWH......

4.)  SWH is correct...... we live in a Christocentric/Anthropocentric/Geocentric Creation… so the ETH is false and the UTH is true.  

5.)  SWH is incorrect, and, so, the ETH may either be a.) true or b.) false, depending on the uniqueness of the Earth.  
5a
 
After we finish our progress in this world, they'll be a big meeting in Heaven (something like that) afterwhich we're going to other worlds.  But in bodies that never die.  
 
Surprise!
 
 
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:24 am

Opps I over looked this comment of yours....
 
Dan wrote:
4.)  SWH is correct...... we live in a Christocentric/Anthropocentric/Geocentric Creation… so the ETH is false and the UTH is true.
Both are true.
 
I agree we live in a Christocentric/Anthropocentric/Geocentric Creation.  However, I see the whole Universe that way.  Not simply this Small World.
 
Wherever you are, you're at the center.  And all things came to be through the Logos.  And are enveloped within the One.  
 
I believe, G-d is GREAT!  Now imagine Tony the Tiger saying that.
 
And G-d thinks BIG!  Even Bigger than Texas.

The SWH is for little minds. Just like the Young Earth Hypothesis.
 
Yes quite contrary to you, I do believe there really are Billions of Galaxies.  And that the "Anthropic principle" is Universal.  = The Cosmos is fundamentally designed to be Teeming with life.
 
Imagine!

Like Lennon said...I hope some day you'll join us.


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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by dan on Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:14 pm

Skai/John,  

Glad to see you touching base, here.  Part of saving the world will be to save the rhinos, so I'm not too worried as to that outcome  And it does add some immediacy to our timeline of salvation, a fact which even the Christians are reluctant to admit.  

By what authority will all of this come to pass...?  All authority originates within us, of course.  How it gets expressed externally is always going to be ad-hoc, and so will the 4M/K/SoT/X2.  It will definitely be an exercise in minimalism.  It will be unmistakable mainly in retrospect.    

My conversations with Craig have been beneficial, certainly on my side.  There is nothing complicated about simplicity.  It is not rocket science, it has just been hiding in plain sight.  Craig and I are like the little boy pointing to the nakedness of the king.  

The intellectuals love to build castles in the sky, which is fine until Chicken Little shows up.  


Here is some further amplification from Ron......
From: Ron
Date: December 7, 2013, 1:38:55 PM EST
To: Jake Reason
Cc: Dan Smith
Subject: Correction on Wildlife Conservation UAV Challenge

Hi Jake,

I intended only to correct Dan's fabrication that the Challenge is somehow collaborative with intelligence operations.  Dan often fabricates stories about my day job and infers false associations with our friendship.

Kruger (and broader SANSParks) has broad authorities for rangers, army, police, and contracted organizations to use weapons in counter poaching operations.  The rules of engagement are similar to those in the United States.  If the counter poaching teams perceive they are threatened, they can engage with lethal force.  To someone who may have not been in the field under fire, you might not understand the circumstances. Imagine you are a ranger on foot in the African bush.  A report comes in that a team of 5 poachers is headed your way.  At least three members of the team are armed with AK-47 assault rifles intended to kill rangers.  One member of the team carries a high caliber bolt action rifle intended it kill a rhino or elephant that can also kill you at a range of over 1 mile.  One member of the team carries an axe to saw to hack off the horn or tusks of the animal.

You are alone in the Bush.  You may be able to call for assistance on your radio, but there may only be one or two more rangers in your area.  Do you perceive that you are threatened? You bet!  Do you run from the poachers or engage?  The Challenge is intended to help the rangers choose to engage.  It is intended to give them a chance to stop the crime and survive the encounter.

Kruger is a battle ground at night with hundreds of armed and dangerous poachers.  During our Fact Finding Mission, shots were fired every night in nearly every sector of the park. Some poachers were killed and some were apprehended.  Fortunately no rangers were injured during those few days.  Keep in minds that rangers are paid about $200 per month, yet they risk their lives every night in Kruger to enforce the laws protecting endangered species.

V/r,

Ron
wcuavc
5pm--------

At breakfast, I asked Craig about the ontological status of the knife that came wrapped in the napkin.  The knife may be perceived as something that is either simple or complex.  Its simplicity could be seen as being either analytic or synthetic.  This hardly seems earthshaking.  

But what is the knife, actually, other than a rather arbitrary collection of atoms?  And the same could be asked of you or me.  

Craig is a perspectivalist, and is not unlike Berkeley, in that sense, although he does not consider himself an idealist.  

What, however, if we allow God into this picture?  Would that be a game changer?  And/or what if we consider the knife from a quantum perspective?  Can it not just be treated as a 'classical' object, for all practical purposes?  




(cont.)


Last edited by dan on Sun Dec 08, 2013 7:02 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by skaizlimit on Sat Dec 07, 2013 4:27 pm

Jake, thanks, I read all the protestant theology and philosophy and wanted more and found it in the Catholic archives. My point was to comment on the issue of authority which is being debated without any definition of terms.

Dan, I was actually handed a large and razor sharp hunting knife wrapped in a napkin ... by a crazy huge dude one time. He released his grip on it after I followed his invitation to feel the edge of it. It was like Crocodile Dundee facing down a cape buffalo (although how one of those ended up in the Australian bush is puzzling). So, your image of such a classic element got me going a bit here.

Also, hopefully the symbolism in this knife image is interpreted as the Kruger rangers and wardens should also be carrying such knives.
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by dan on Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:54 am

Skai/John,

Yes, you do point out that, like every other tool, and name me one thing that from no perspective whatsoever could be considered to be a tool, and is it nonsense to suggest that God or the cosmic Monad might not be considered as a tool from the perspective of a preacher, a knife is a paradigmatic case of a relational being.  

Outside of such a relational nexus, neither a knife nor anything else may be said to exist, at all.  Nor may you or I be be said to exist, as naked singularities, shorn of all our social and ecological contexts.  

With the quantum, the problem of contextuality only becomes magnified.  


..... now off to church.......

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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by skaizlimit on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:46 am

Dan, the only thing I excelled at in college was driving professors over the brink with my interpretations ... especially the physics professors with my non verbal "duh" look; yet, I managed to develop this talent to where ... hmn, well, I forget.

On the problem of "contextuality", may I refer you to what the Church calls the Sacraments, the beginning and end of divine mystery. I am aware of all the arguments surrounding this issue, and boil down my defense of same by saying, "one can look into it or not, their choice". Let me note also that there is a point of departure between theology and religion, where one is reason and the other is mystical. St John of the Cross puzzled me as he departed from the use of reason and entered the use of understanding ... which is not something that can be understood : )

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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by skaizlimit on Sun Dec 08, 2013 10:55 am

Dan, on a practical level, I prefer a couple of formulas: the theological virtues are faith, hope and charity; the cardinal virtues are wisdom, courage, justice and temperance. All recommendations seem to derive from: Worship God and love one's neighbor as one's self. Thus the first relationship has to be with God, and if all goes right, then goodness will follow. This would be where the philosophies of who is God and who is man are critical. Who is rhino obviously is part of the quantum.

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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by skaizlimit on Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:39 am

Now back to the flack I got from Jake. Jake, in that you hastily labeled me a KKK dude, let me assume that you've never actually met a real KKK member. I've met one, knew him for twenty years. His mother was a native american street walker. He lived his high school years in the home of Tom and John Metzger. He was a life long extreme alcoholic, who I watched down an entire fifth of vodka in a half hour. He was a Jehovah Witness. He was involved in the on air TV brawl on the Jeraldo show c. 1992 where Jeraldo suffered a broken nose from a chair tossed through the air. This character died before age 40. He also had attended a youth training camp for KKK and Aryan Brotherhood, and claims to have deflowered the daughter of a well known Klan leader. He was a tenant which is how I knew him, and why I watched the Brian Lamb video series on the Tom and John Metzger trial in Oregon in which both were convicted of murder by pamphlet. That trial video shows Tom Metzger as some sort of demoniac outta some kind of terror movie. This is my knowledge of the KKK, in which I've never had any involvement.

On the Mandela ideology issue bandwagon from which you fired off your cream puffs at me, let me make it clear that I respect individuals according to their character, not according to their ideologies. What I see is a mix of Mandela and the Marxist ideology that is being pumped up at present, and thus I choose to have no part in it because of the ideology and not because of the man. My ancestors broke away from a tyrannical govt system also, although it was not a racial issue. Man everywhere is called to rise from slavery. Mandela deployed the only means available, which sadly was a Marxist ideology. Leaders of other beliefs that I see as better for mankind have been failing in big ways leaving us all often leaving us to choose the lesser evils to survive.

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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by skaizlimit on Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:43 am

One last note for the moment: Today is the last day in California when one may legally take a jake for the holiday table.
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by dan on Sun Dec 08, 2013 8:02 pm

Skai and Jake,

I have to break in with a Ravens recap...... we squeaked by the Vikings as the teams traded five touchdowns in the last two minutes!  Throop was at the game, of course.  

And let's do be nice unto one another.  I think we can celebrate Mandela and the history of Christianity while being clear eyed about shortcomings and failures.  I have no difficulty supposing that we are still on our way to becoming the best possible world.

And the proof may be just around the corner.  

Jake may well be correct that Creation is infinite.  This is what every modern has come to believe, and for perfectly good reasons.  There is, however, a fly in this infinite ointment....

By affording an infinite potential to matter, there is no room left for the spirit.  Well, one could suppose that matter is eventually transformed or simply evolved into spirit, at its limit.  This, in fact, is just what the Transhumanists believe, especially when they anticipate a technological Singularity.  

I would even be wiling to venture that the idea of the technological Singurality was borrowed largely from Teilhard de Chardin's concept of the Omega Point. And I am not bashful about importing Teilhard's Omega into my own little BPWH/SWH.



(cont.)
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by dan on Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:52 am

Skai & Jake (cont.),  

Ours is a jealous God.  I think we might agree on that.  

What I hasten to point out is that this jealousy is bound to be mutual.  God is not about to share his creatures, nor we, our Creator.  

Jake will tell us to get over it..... it's a big world with a big Creator.  Whereas I harbor the quaint desire for a small world and a small creator.  I am so yesterday!  

Yes, size does matter to many.  

It is very difficult for the moderns amongst us to embrace cosmic specificity and such quaint notions as human exceptionalism.  The idea of a chosen people seems ludicrous to the modern theist, not to mention my ufological colleagues.  

Surely I must be flogging a dead horse.  

Surely we are living in an impersonal world.  Or are we?  

Personalism begins and ends at home.  Are we at home in the universe?  Clearly not.  We do have a wanderlust.  We are nomads, all.  Family is our home.  God is our tribal father/ancestor, before being anything else.

Many tribes had many gods.  Yet, rather unlike the case with polytheism, Yaweh was no amalgam, certainly not historically.  There was a very specific covenant.  We have it in writing.  There could be only one Arc and one Temple.  

The only way to break that Covenant was to create a living and then risen Temple.  The only way was to become even more personal and specific.  Personalism had to be pushed to its logical limit.  

This is the idea that is an anathema to the modern mind.  It is the cornerstone that is still rejected, even by the most ardent of Christians, and certainly by everyone else.  To be the quintessential Christian is to be the Jesus freak, essentially unchurched, communing with one's fellow vagabonds, waiting for Godot.  The papacy retains much of this charism, to the chagrin of us regicides/deicides.  Make no mistake, Jesus was the ultimate deicide.  We do celebrate the death of God, above all else.  We are born again into those dusty sandals, nomads that we are.  This is our apokatastasis.  

The Kurzweilian Singularity can be our Omega. Someone can and will personalize that singularity.  I need hardly apologize for my feeble attempt.  There will be a ground-zero for the wikipedian information implosion.  If it is not the BPWH/SWH, I'll just have to eat my hat.  Dang, me......

Craig D should know this as well as any.  He almost has it.  If only Sophia could smile upon him.  Simplicity is in the air.  


11:30-------

The singular Simple.......

Leibniz posited an infinity of monads.  Is this not bizarrely contradictory?  He was a relationalist, nonetheless.  Relations are internal, all.  No windows, please!  Without windows, the plural monads become indiscernible, do they not?  Microcosms, all.  

Can I not distinguish between myself and an atom?  Not if I'm an atomic physicist, absorbed in my work.  Am I not a (cosmic) atom dreaming of a person?  A flower in the crannied wall?  

This is the only way to coherence.  All else is a chasing after shadows and reflections.  

The Monad is necessarily both analytically and synthetically simple.  Complexity is just the bootstrap, of which we are the buckle.  Complexity is our stepladder back to simplicity.  It is the trail of breadcrumbs by which we mark our sojourn into the Platonic Cave.  It is our silver bungee cord.  

Simplicity is our Alpha and Omega.  Atoms are the breadcrumbs.  We come from heaven, trailing clouds of glory.  Every atom is a logical knot in the warp and woof.  It is Alexander who unties the knots.  Jesus already did this, but he just made it look unbelievably simple.  Now we will believe, hon, as if for the first time.  

The Monad is also hollow.  It is a hollow doughnut, with a woven, mobius surface, and a small spark-gap.  Not too complicated.  And do KIM that the Sun is just the quantum firewall, in the spark-gap...... http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/13/science/space/a-black-hole-mystery-wrapped-in-a-firewall-paradox.html

Which, along with the Moon, is the master shuttlecock.  Just check out Hamlet's Mill, to get the precessional details.  

Any other questions?  



(cont.)


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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by skaizlimit on Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:36 pm

Yes, question: Metaphysics seems to deal little or not at all with the senses of touch and smell. How would infinite touch or infinite smell be discussed?
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by GSB/SSR on Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:31 pm

Ron Pandolfi is being disingenuous regarding Dan's oft-repeated claim of a connection between their friendship and Ron's day job (presumably somewhere in the world of U.S. intelligence).

As evidence, consider Dan provided (at his original blog) information about government interest in the high-frequency gravity wave project between American researchers and their associates in China. One might argue this was "open" as the original report (published one year after Dan revealed the spy games being played around the persons of interest involved) was For Official Use Only. However, the same report also notes a "classified portion" of Pandolfi's government report (identified with MITRE and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence).

https://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/jason/gravwaves.pdf

All the above is so far from known published government protocols as to be laughable, if not for Ron's identification with the ODNI. One might then ask what protocol allows this unique form of "leaking" information using Dan as "useful" publisher.


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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by dan on Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:30 pm

Skai,

Being a monist, I am a fan of synaesthesia and of felt meaning.  Love is a many splendored thing.  If love is infinite, then so must be its splendor.  We are the braincells of God.  One would imagine that God has as much greater range and depth of sensation relative to us, as we do to our neurons.  Such transcendant sensations are reported in states of altered consciousness, wherein the color spectrum can appear to be greatly expanded, for instance.  

As we become one with the Creator, we become one with Creation, in all of the above respects.  This is our tender trap.  It is our banquet at the end of the universe, wherein we have access to all life.  I doubt there will be cause for disapointment.  


Gary,

Thanks for this background information. And, as I've said before, there is no benefit to my engaging in a debate concerning my possible or potential institutional roles, relative to my eschatological speculations. I merely point out that there are no back-channels here. It's all just WYSIWYG.



(cont.)



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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by skaizlimit on Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:36 pm

So, Dan, you're saying spacemen might be carrying clubs instead of ray guns?
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by dan on Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:21 pm

Skai,  

Are you asking if heaven has been weaponized......?  

Typically, angels and demons eschew firepower.  However, there are rumors of a fatal altercation at the Skinwalker ranch.  

Some of my fellow evangelicals are anticipating an Armageddon, wherein God is expected to contribute to the general mayhem.  Looking at Creation, it does appear to be red in tooth and claw, without any great distress being registered from on high.  

Mortality and metabolism are our creaturely prerogatives.  I suspect there will be less of this in heaven.  Correspondingly, there is likely to be less of free-will, certainly as manifested in the context of our egos.  


When we die, any experiential transitions are liable to be discontinuous.  Intermediate states, as in limbo, may not be the rule.  During the Millennium there will be more opportunity for transitional states to be experienced, not unlike the altered states that may be experienced, even now.  Virtual realities may also figure in the mix, at least indirectly.  


8:20---------

Just as we are on the verge of completing the technological revolution, the global p2p communication aspect of it is opening us to a spiritual dimension, not heretofore conceivable. If there were to be an intergalactic SETI event, it is being strangely silent. A dramatic denouement has always been featured in the context of an Ω event, but nowhere else.



(cont.)



Last edited by dan on Tue Dec 10, 2013 6:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:30 am

dan wrote:

Here is some further amplification from Ron......
From: Ron
Date: December 7, 2013, 1:38:55 PM EST
To: Jake Reason
Cc: Dan Smith
Subject: Correction on Wildlife Conservation UAV Challenge

Hi Jake,

I intended only to correct Dan's fabrication that the Challenge is somehow collaborative with intelligence operations.  Dan often fabricates stories about my day job and infers false associations with our friendship.

Kruger (and broader SANSParks) has broad authorities for rangers, army, police, and contracted organizations to use weapons in counter poaching operations.  The rules of engagement are similar to those in the United States.  If the counter poaching teams perceive they are threatened, they can engage with lethal force.  To someone who may have not been in the field under fire, you might not understand the circumstances. Imagine you are a ranger on foot in the African bush.  A report comes in that a team of 5 poachers is headed your way.  At least three members of the team are armed with AK-47 assault rifles intended to kill rangers.  One member of the team carries a high caliber bolt action rifle intended it kill a rhino or elephant that can also kill you at a range of over 1 mile.  One member of the team carries an axe to saw to hack off the horn or tusks of the animal.

You are alone in the Bush.  You may be able to call for assistance on your radio, but there may only be one or two more rangers in your area.  Do you perceive that you are threatened? You bet!  Do you run from the poachers or engage?  The Challenge is intended to help the rangers choose to engage.  It is intended to give them a chance to stop the crime and survive the encounter.

Kruger is a battle ground at night with hundreds of armed and dangerous poachers.  During our Fact Finding Mission, shots were fired every night in nearly every sector of the park. Some poachers were killed and some were apprehended.  Fortunately no rangers were injured during those few days.  Keep in minds that rangers are paid about $200 per month, yet they risk their lives every night in Kruger to enforce the laws protecting endangered species.

V/r,

Ron
wcuavc
I didn't receive this email.  Not in the spam filter either.  I often receive emails with one of Ron's addresses added in the C.C. by the sender.  So I would presume it would be easy for Ron to have quick access to my email address.

Dan, could you please check into this?  Thanks

In quick public reply to Ron.....I understand and thank you for taking the time.

I will say that I wouldn't even go on a photo-shoot safari without at least a couple well armed Rangers in the vehicle.  Along with a spare rifle armed and ready just in case.  I fully understand that the most dangerous animals in the African wilderness are a human species of some sort.   And some of them are less civilized than lions and leopards.

And to answer my own question, (what if it was Aliyah) If I were with friends and somehow we found ourselves being chased by a stampeding Rhino, I would not hesitate to shoot it with full intention of stopping it in its tracks. However, I wouldn't de-horn it.

Now, yes, I do think Drones would be helpful to Rangers, as eyes in the sky.  However I do NOT think they should be armed.  I wouldn't even trust modern Police in G20 nations to use armed drones responsibly.  Once you give them a deadly toy that can so easily be used to clandestinely kill without trace, there will be countless casualties for a myriad of reasons that have nothing to do with keeping the peace and protecting the public.

We have to be very careful about on how we go about adapting this new technology into our societies.

And especially so with African Rangers.  The first 3 you sell them, will be stolen within 24 hrs.  And deadly force could very likely be used in the theft.  It will be exceedingly difficult, if not impossible, for Park Rangers to retain an Armed Drone for the use of protecting Rhinos.

--------------------

That said... I can respect Aliyah's R&D project.  It will inspire invention that could have numerous useful applications.

 

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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by Jake Reason on Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:57 am

skaizlimit wrote:Jake, thanks, I read all the protestant theology and philosophy and wanted more and found it in the Catholic archives.
Shhhhh, don't let the regular parishioners know about those secrete manuscripts.  I trust they are safely hidden away in a little known Abbey.  Along with the detestable King James Bibles.  Was Luther's original 95 there too?  Gosh, you must have required JHS Clearance to get into that archive.  I know how it goes though, they never give you enough time to read any of it.


My point was to comment on the issue of authority which is being debated without any definition of terms.
Kidding aside...
Actually I find this an interesting subject to broach.

-----------------

And on an entirely different subject, I would like say,
Hi John.

I didn't know who you were.  Dan never told me you were Skai. But he has told me about you, both on forum and a bit off forum.

I wish I had of known before I responded to your posts.  For all I knew you were simply another sock puppet coming on to take pot shots like a sophomore.  And I understand you are none of these.

My apologies if my form may have offended you.

Welcome to the forum.


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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by dan on Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:36 am

Jake,

Ron used your sympatico address, and it was bounced back.  Is your zoho address your current one?  

Your basic misunderstanding here, Jake, is to confuse drone with predator.  The WCUAVC is specifically for surveilance.  However, as the Princess migrates her operation to other, more remote venues, it could conceivably become necessary to weaponize the drones.  But I doubt that this would be done on the sly, and clearly it would mandate a high level of authorization.  We'll just have to stay tuned.  

And, yes, we do wish to afford Skai every hospitality.  And even our anonymous contributors deserve a red-carpet treatment.  If and when the first sock-puppet makes the scene, we should celebrate our new-found notoriety.

But, no, I do not envision predator drones ever being used outside of conflict zones associated with failed states.  That parts of Kashmir might qualify as such would be a matter for discussion.


I need to review Craig's Simplicity, in preparation for another meeting.  And I have just spoken with Debbie's cousin in Seattle who happens to be quite the railroad buff.  Craig will be coming back to Baltimore next month to catch the Amtrak to Seattle and the west coast where he will have several more speaking engagements.  


1:15------

I consider Craig to be mainly a Kantian, but more agnostic concerning God and morality.

I'm also comparing his simplicity with Leibniz' monadology, which may be taken as a form of panpsychism. Unlike most metaphysicians, he sees persons as mainly composites.

Yes, he does envision a noumenon, but is a radical pluralist when it comes to perspectives. He deals with God only as a possible abstraction. The notion of Simplicity has great promise, but seems to be squandered in the end.



(cont.)

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Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by GSB/SSR on Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:01 pm

Dan,

Re: Ron and CIA Publications Review Board protocols on publication by present and former CIA employees

The key protocol here is Reviews Are Not Optional

And so, in consideration of Ron Pandolfi's writing (e-mail) now published at this forum, consider the following:

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/kent-csi/docs/v41i3a01p.htm

The daily "take" logged in by the five-person PRB staff ranges from 1,000-page book manuscripts to one-page letters to the editor. There are speeches, journal articles, theses and op-eds, book reviews, and movie scripts. There are scholarly treatises, works of fiction, and, recently, a cookbook featuring a collection of recipes acquired and served by Agency officers and spouses around the world. Perhaps the most novel review (no pun intended) involved an interactive CD-ROM video spy game co-authored by former Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) William Colby and KGB Gen. Oleg Kalugin.

The reason all this writing is reviewed lies in the Agency's need--and its employees' contractual obligation--to protect sources and methods of collection and analysis.

The courts have ruled, in effect, that prepublication review is the only way to carry out the DCI's statutory mandate consistent with the First Amendment. In addition, prepublication review is essential if the Agency is to uphold the validity of the secrecy agreement CIA staff employees and contractors sign as a condition of employment.

Nor is it optional for the individuals who sign a secrecy agreement to seek the review. It is specifically required to protect the sources and methods of collection and analysis they will learn about and which, if revealed, could cost heavily in lives, resources, and continued access to critical national security information.

The review requirement is spelled out clearly in the secrecy agreement, in which the signer agrees to submit for review any material "I contemplate disclosing publicly or that I have actually prepared for public disclosure, either during my employment...or at any time thereafter, prior to discussing it or showing it to anyone who is not authorized to have access.... I further agree that I will not take any steps toward public disclosure until I have received written permission to do so from the Central Intelligence Agency."


The silence from the CIA PRB to my request (concerning Ron) for clarification roars in response.

FAS published a redacted version of the PRB handbook:

https://www.fas.org/irp/cia/prb-handbook.pdf


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