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» Baudrillardian hauntology - what are some haunting truths to our reality?
Immaterialism 6 - Page 33 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2024 3:07 pm by dan

Where did all the Open Minds Forum members go?

Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:29 pm by Admin

With Open Minds Forum restored now for almost half a year at it's new location with forumotion.com we can now turn to look at reaching out to OMF's original members who have not yet returned home. OMF's original membership was over 6,000 members strong, prior to the proboards suspension, according to the rolls of the time. We can probably safely assume that some of those accounts were unidentified socks. If we were to assume a reasonable guess of maybe as many as 30% possible sock accounts then that would leave potentially somewhere between 4800 to 4900 possible real members to locate. That is still a substantial number of people.

Who were all these people? Some were average individuals with common interests in ufology, exopolitics, globalism, corruption, earthchanges, science and technology, and a variety of other interests. Some just enjoyed being part of a vibrant and unusually interesting community. Others were representative of various insider groups participating in observation and outreach projects, while still others were bonafide intelligence community personnel. All with stake in the hunt for truth in one fashion or another. Some in support of truth, and communication. Others seeking real disclosure and forms of proof. And others highly skeptical of anything or limited subjects. The smallest division of membership being wholly anti-disclosure oriented.

So where did these members vanish to? They had many options. There are almost innumerable other forums out there on the topics of UFO's or Exopolitics, the Unexplained, and Conspiracy Theory. Did they disappear into the world-wide network of forum inhabitants? Did some go find new homes on chatrooms or individual blogs? Did they participate in ufo conventions or other public events and gatherings? How about those who represented groups in special access? Or IC and military observers? Those with academic affiliations? Where did they all go and what would be the best way to reach out and extend an invitation to return?

And what constitutes a situation deserving of their time and participation? Is the archive enough? How exactly do people within the paradigm most desire to define a community? Is it amenities, humanity or simply population size for exposure? Most of the special guests have been emailed and have expressed that population size for exposure is what most motivates them. But not all. Long-time member Dan Smith has other priorities and values motivating his participation. Should this open opportunities for unattached junior guests who have experience and dialog to contribute to the world? How best to make use of OMF's time, experience and resources?

Many skeptics would like to see the historical guardian of discourse opportunity to just up and disappear; go into permanent stasis. They think that not everyone has a right to speak about their experiences and if there is no proof involved then there can philosophically be no value to discourse. I personally would respectfully disagree with them. Discourse has always been the prelude to meaningful relationships and meaningful mutual relationships have always been the prelude to exchanges of proof. In a contentious social environment with regards to communication vs disclosure how do we best re-establish a haven for those preludes? Is it only the "if we build it they will come" answer? Well considering OMF has been largely fully functional over the last four or five months this line of reasoning is not necessarily true. So what would be the best way re-establish this? Your suggestions are sought. Please comment.





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    Immaterialism 6

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    Immaterialism 6 - Page 33 Empty Immaterialism 6

    Post by dan Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:34 pm

    First topic message reminder :

    First topic message reminder :

    This is the continuation of the Immaterialism 5 thread.......

    The original topic reminder post https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t320-immaterialism
    should be substituted here......

    Please remember to confine you dialogue to matters that are pertinent to the topic of immaterialism/disclosure.  

    Thank you.  

    ............



    Last edited by dan on Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Immaterialism 6 - Page 33 Empty Re: Immaterialism 6

    Post by dan Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:49 pm

    I believe I found the fatal flaw in Nashida’s metaphysics of Zen (absolute nothingness)......... https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kyoto-school/#NisTopAbsNot

    His understanding of ontology includes both the subjective and objective at the foundational level.  One could argue that this was merely a contamination from the West, but I believe the problem goes deeper than that..... historically.  

    There is in Zen a considerable emphasis on (subjective) phenomenology, more than you find in the West, outside of Heidegger.

    The basic problem in Zen is its inability to embrace personalism. There is no theistic or panentheistic basis for Zen to fall back on.



    (cont.......)


    Last edited by dan on Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:53 pm

    Damn it Dan, you just had to make me open the fucking mystery door didn’t ya?!

    Now I have to go find all the fookers and put them back in the jar.

    Let me explain how it works.

    You look into the crystal ball and the crystal ball will exact a price.

    It will fucking look back at you.

    Mischief.

    Random chaos.

    There is the possibility we booted up new Oracles that once went silent.

    We may have made it through the storm.

    We just might have ignited them.

    For it took ignition.

    Now they speak from goats and chickens.

    It came to us.

    We got it done.

    That’s how you do it bitches.

    Mic drop.

    Now that’s Magickal thinking.

    Ignore me.

    I do.

    Stay looz.


    Last edited by smelly on Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:56 pm

    dan wrote:I believe I found the fatal flaw in Nashida’s metaphysics of Zen (absolute nothingness)......... https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/kyoto-school/#NisTopAbsNot

    His understanding of ontology includes both the subjective and objective at the foundational level.  One could argue that this was merely a contamination from the West, but I believe the problem goes deeper than that..... historically.  



    (cont.......)

    Dan you didn’t find anything in any book about Zen Wink

    Silly muppet.

    Free your mind and your ass will follow.

    Open up your funky mind and you can fly.

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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:59 pm

    99 wrote:Immaterialism 6 - Page 33 Article-2061755-0ECE5D7E00000578-701_964x496

    Open up your funky mind and you can fly.
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:00 pm

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    Post by dan Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:12 pm

    I understand, smelly that you and your Zen comrades are bibliophobes.  

    I can sympathize to an extent........ but there are limits......

    But there may be a logos, and if there is we need to track it down...... just for our sanity, if nothing else.  

    And you are also a logophobe.  

    Zen, in fact, takes the Logos to be an object.  It is not, and that is the first corollary of their original fatal mistake.  

    By cutting themselves off from the Source, they have cut themselves off from the vital force.  

    Yes, it is interesting to compare the Zen notion of nothingness with the Western notion of Being.  There is really no difference.  

    What is Being, beyond the notion of beings?  

    It is the same as the Zen no-thing-ness.  Check it out.  

    Yes, smelly, there may be an idea or two, still in books, that you cannot afford to neglect, if you place any value on your sanity.  

    You may not, but have mercy on the rest of us, here, please.  

    Zen does not know how to let persons be themselves. They always have to be embedded in an objectifiable matrix. I don’t believe you would for such confinement, but that is where your Zen masters end up placing you.

    You had better start running, smelly. They are up no good.

    Perhaps your old friend on the riverbank is a trickster, after all.

    Better check it out........



    (cont......)


    Last edited by dan on Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:38 pm

    You don’t need any word from any book.

    Being is Being.

    The Old Man said so.

    Books about Zen are just books about Zen.

    You are Zen.

    It’s sitting in silence.

    Now write a book about it.

    Ha!

    There is a written tradition and that’s all it is.

    There are some I read.

    Joshu, Cold Mountain, Bodhidharma and Suzuki.

    There is a lot of religious infighting.

    That’s a joke for outsiders.

    The Masters fart on your silly intelligence.

    Being is Being.

    It is beyond thinking.

    If your little monkey brain can’t handle that...

    Tough shit.

    Get the shit out of your head and try again.


    Last edited by smelly on Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by dan Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:47 pm

    Yes, sir, master smelly.

    The last I checked, the only beings were persons.

    You might want to check that out for yourself.

    Don’t just take my word for it. I’ve been wrong before.


    Last edited by dan on Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:48 pm

    Shit in

    Shit out

    You have a lot to unlearn dodo bird.

    If you were here i’d spit in your face!

    There is nothing to learn.

    It was much easier for me than it will be for you!

    Ha!

    Eat your face.


    Last edited by smelly on Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by 99 Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:50 pm

    Dan wrote:Zen, in fact, takes the Logos to be an object. 



    One needs to pass through the eye of the needle to recognize that sentiment as an error... the Logos as an object.


    Last edited by 99 on Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:52 pm

    Only thinking about Zen takes Logos!

    You are a blind bat Dan!

    Logos is not supreme.

    It’s my bitch, like you are.

    Ha!

    I spit in your face AGAIN!!!


    Last edited by smelly on Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Post by dan Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:53 pm

    99,

    And try telling that to master smelly........


    And, smelly,

    Please pass the hanky.....
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:55 pm

    Sit quietly for 60 minutes and give the cosmos a fucking break talking space monkey.

    God has asked me to pass that request along to you.
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    Post by SurfBum Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:20 pm

    Without persons there would be no Zen


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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:22 pm

    There is no Zen.

    There are only apparently persons.
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    Post by SurfBum Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:25 pm

    Lol

    Says who?
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:38 pm

    Dan is talking about nothing.

    Jokes on him.

    I’m no one.

    Ignore me.

    Dan fell into the first Zen trap.

    Talking about Zen is only words about nothing.
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    Post by SurfBum Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:53 pm

    Virginia is for lovers
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:58 pm

    The only thing to be said about Zen, is the practice called Zen. There are several ways to practice Zen.

    What happens beyond thought can’t be spoken of.

    The practice is only a temporary building.

    A place to be here.

    There is no self, no suchness, nothing to practice without a body that practices, a place of practice, a world that allows for practice and the historical Buddha, now a collection of symbols and only symbols.

    Every generation can follow the practice and realize for themselves using their own symbols.
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:36 pm

    Pepe and Kermit

    Immaterialism 6 - Page 33 2w4is5x
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    Post by dan Tue Apr 09, 2019 7:10 am

    So smelly is on here, criticizing the prophetic tradition, because it is actually about something.  

    smelly would much prefer us prophets to be more like him, and go on about nothing.  

    Being is another flavor of nothingness.

    Being refers to what all things have in common, which is nothing..... allegedly.  

    But don’t all things have existence in common?  

    And what, pray tell is pure existence, if it is not the existence of something?

    And why is there something rather than nothing?  

    And what is the ground of existence?  

    I claim that the ground of existence is potential existence.  

    And how does being differ from existence?  

    Is being a noun or a verb...... in its essence?  To be or not to be?  

    And which comes first...... essence or existence?  

    Then personalism comes along and stands ontology on its head.  

    Understand that science is an interminable soliloquy against personhood.  

    I’m gonna terminate it, personally, with or without the help of Ron and the Princess.  

    Zen is an interminable soliloquy against personhood.  I’m gonna terminate it, personally, with or without smelly’s kind assistance.  

    Zen makes no reference to objects.  In that regard, it is the antithesis of science.  It is the complement of science.  

    And it makes no reference to persons, either.  Hmmm.......

    Personhood is the 800# gorilla behind the curtain of Zen.  

    Science and Zen play an interminable shell game....... person, person, who’s got the person?  

    I’m gonna terminate it, personally.  

    smelly’s gonna be my first victim.  

    Just call me..... Terminator smith.  

    chicken little said the sky was falling.  Now we know where it’s gonna fall.  Right on smelly’s little noggin.  

    Let’s ask smelly...... what is the aim of Zen?  

    Some might say that the aim of Zen is the perfection of personhood.  

    smelly might say that it is the elimination of personhood.  

    But the only thing that can eliminate personhood is another person.  

    Or an eschatologist...... IOW.  

    Hey, it looks like smelly came to the right place, after all.  


    11:20.......

    smelly fancies himself to be the one-eyed, one-horned, flyin' purple people eater.........

    Hey, smelly........ eat me!  
    Ch'an Buddhism supports a narrative view of personhood, a stance that denies the ontological distinction between 'self' and 'other.' Instead, the person represents the whole dynamic confluence of characters and actions in the world. Distinctions such as self and other, outside and inside, operate only as conventions within a story. The doctrine of karma, suggesting the inseparability of self and world, brings together the drama of narration and the inherently relational nature of the person.
    Hmmm.......

    What is smelly going to have to say about these apples?



    (cont.......)


    Last edited by dan on Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by hobbit Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:23 am

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henny_Penny


    Well chicken little, why did the acorn hit Your head?
    What would enable the sky to fall?

    Don't mention gravity or You will be sent into the class corner with a dunces hat on.

    Gravity does not exist, this is part of disclosure.

    How and why the acorn displaced in location is part of disclosure.

    How the sky is there in daytime, but not at night is part of disclosure.

    How to displace in any direction is part of disclosure.

    hobbit



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    Post by dan Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:27 am

    hobbit,

    Yes, gravity does not exist, other than in our heads.  

    Tell that to smelly.........!

    I do not exist, other than in your head.

    And you do not exist, other than in my head.

    Maybe...... just maybe, hobbit, we’d better stick together.

    What think, my furry little friend?


    Last edited by dan on Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:30 am

    Whoa Dan.

    I didn’t criticize your made up prophecy stories Wink

    I deftly threw you on your back.

    Dust the dirt off.

    You asked about Zen.

    I showed you.

    I like to throw muppets off balconies.

    Fun.

    We all share the same air.

    Can’t deny that.

    Persons are persona, shells.

    Do you know how to play the shell game?

    Dan the answer to your ranting is to just let it be.

    Just be.

    What is just is.

    You can argue with your existence all you like.

    Or you can just exist.

    Happy happy joy joy


    Last edited by smelly on Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by dan Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:35 am

    On this forum, we’re stuck in a word/Logos trap.......

    Now I know where all your levers are hidden.  

    Your goose is cooked, smelly.  Your jig is up.  

    You’d better throw in towel, if you know what’s good for you.


    And we share the same bandwidth........ silly goat.  

    Over seventy five years, I’ve secured an hegemony on the Logos, pretty much by default, I might add.  

    You are here to witness my personal hegemony........ enjoy.  

    (cont.......)

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