Immaterialism 4

First topic message reminder :

This is the continuation of the Immaterialism 3 thread.......

The original topic reminder post https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t320-immaterialism
should be substituted here......

............

Araneidae,

Impressed with Your species cyclosa turbinata.
https://spiderid.com/spider/araneidae/cyclosa/turbinata/pictures/

Brilliant polygon builder.

The web We are within creates polygons.

I always think of the parrot flying out of the window.

hobbit

hobbiT,

WEbs CreATE many gOnes but WHO CREates tHe WEbs?

SomeTIMES the PARrot fLies IN.

I had a portal vision/dream and thought I'd share... I was in my room and all of the sudden something or someone lifted me up through the roof and I went high up in the air.  I was over the earth,  only it wasn't the earth as we know it but a giant sphere completely dotted/covered with portals.  I could see inside the portals and they weren't to other locations, but rather they were different timelines or like different rolls of the dice for how our past/present/future play out.  Something or someone had plucked me up out of one, and was moving me over and then dropping me down into another one.  In transit, there was a giant spider-like creature--it was like a centaur but with the body of a spider and the torso and head/face of a woman.  And it was like this creature had become aware of me being transferred, and she started to give chase.  But then I was dropped into the destination portal before she was able to intercept.  And that's it.  We've heard about the queen bee.  I wonder if she knows anything about a queen spider...

Araneidae wrote:hobbiT,

WEbs CreATE many gOnes but WHO CREates tHe WEbs?

SomeTIMES the PARrot fLies IN.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2l0BP1DM4U

There's no creator, no god.

I bow down to no such rubbish.

hobbit

hobbit,

There is scant room on an open minds forum for those who make such categorical assertions.  

Like previous mystics on the forum, you simply project your worst fears onto us.  

Please consider removing yourself from this discussion, if you cannot participate with a modicum of collegiality.  

Thanking you, in advance for your consideration.
.....


Nunia,

Your queen spider incident sounds as though you were encountering Aliyah.  She is on portal patrol..... rather vigilant.  

Let us know if you have a need for access.  We are opening for business.  


jofo,

Rational foresight is virtually synonymous with teleology.  No?  

Our free will is exercised mainly in the domain of the imagination, as we rationalize the world around us.



(cont.......)

Dan, it's obvious the only one projecting fears is you.

Hobbits live in grassy mounds, you can't touch them, they have a very earthy protective shield around them.

Aaron,

hobbit believes that he will be forced to bow down to the Parmenidean One.  If that were the case, he would have to bow down to himself...... as if that were logically possible.  

Do I have fears?  What, me worry.....?

Are the mystics here just for the purpose of god patrol, to make sure that I don’t try to sneak a new god over on them.  

Atheism has grown up, almost entirely, under the aegis of scientific materialism. With the opening of publicly accessible portals, SM is about to experience a humongous collapse of its paradigm.

I am here to ensure as smooth as possible MoAPS, or transition to a new paradigm.



(cont......)

I wouldn't know why the mystics are here...

It's a mystery...

I would hate to stick any label on a person too...

No mystics here, only persons.

Aaron,

Mystics have a strong tendency to come off as being anti-human.  

They do tend to align with the deep ecologists, seeing humanity as a cancer upon the Earth, and are just waiting for our exorcism.  

Actually, hobbit is, like me, more of a gnostic, but following Pythagoras.  

Spinoza was perhaps the best known follower of Pythagoras.  I would like to discuss Spinoza with hobbit, but he doesn’t like discussion, just making assertions.  

A forum is for discussion, not a platform for assertions.  Come here if you are prepared to defend your ideas.   That is the only point, please.  


5:50.......

Aaron, if you also subscribe to the postmodern credo that there is no such thing as truth, then you ought to follow your two friends to that other forum that has been created, especially for mystics.  Could you please post the link here, so there won’t be confusion.  
........

It comes down to the simple truth, that if there is any truth, it almost certainly is the best possible truth....... a truth that we may trust our lives to.  For what other reason could we be here?  

According to the mystics, history is a tale told by an idiot...... full of sound and fury.  

If that is the case, there is nothing of general interest to discuss.  Your only purpose is then one of obstructing any who might have the temerity to seek larger issues.  


6:15(gmt-4).........

What the gang of mystics demonstrate is that chicken little lacks a support group.  That is a useful and interesting piece of information, thank you.  99 was the last of such, and she was scared off by the gang.  Good work boys.  What we have is the mystical goon squad.  They have no desire to use their heads, and want to ensure that no one threatens their mystical slumber.  


The thing about truth is that it is not a popularity contest.  It’s roots are rather deeper.  

Back to Spinoza........

I was going to point out that, toward the end, he was able to transcend Pythagoras, in the direction of personalism.  This view of history is still controversial, however.  

The entry....... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spinoza#Pantheist,_panentheist,_or_atheist?  does attest to the the more recent and revisionist view that Spinoza is better understood as a panentheist rather than simply a pantheist, in accord with my own view.  


6:50.........

I see, below, that the mystical goon squad continues their cacophony.  

I gather that they really do consider me a trouble maker...... a person who is a clear and present danger to their post-rational, mystical slumber.  

Despite some protestation, they refuse to name a truth that they are willing to support, only those to be negated.  Theirs is the via negativa.  Theirs is the path of obstruction.  They are the modern Know Nothings.

Their only seemingly, possible valid point is that if I truly believe that this is the best possible world, why don’t I just shut up and enjoy it.  

Folks still talk about the weather, even though there is nothing we can do about it.  

I believe that we have the best possible ‘weather’, and that it might be beneficial for us to pause in our daily struggles, and celebrate the fact.  As we set about to right the many remaining wrongs in the world, it would give us added confidence to know that the cosmic Force is with us.  

Is this asking too much?  I ask you.  

This impending celebration is what others refer to as Disclosure/Revelation.  

There is nothing in the mystical lexicon that would correspond to any sort of public activity.  The mystical world is a very private world.  There is no notion of a communal aspect.  There is nothing that might be recognized as good news.  

I guess I’m just a good news Charlie....... dang me.....

Any such celebration would have to occur on the grave of scientific materialism.  There is great deal of vested interest in SM.  But it is widely understood that SM is vulnerable to virtually anything that goes bump in the night.  It is an intellectual vacuum chamber that is vulnerable to a sudden implosion.  Implode it will...... in due course.  



(cont.....)

Dan wrote:I am here to ensure as smooth as possible MoAPS, or transition to a new paradigm.

Bahahahahahahaha

I backed up everything I wrote about Dan.

I challenged you point by point.

You are a liar and fool.

I read the books, but you won’t talk about what they are really about.

Your silly dumb anti-mystic rant is more of the same confusion.

Stop saying stupid things and I’ll leave you alone.

Share your own experience Dan.

You are no one to judge anyone else’s experience.

You don’t know about anything else but you.

You are inauthentic.

Dan is suffering from opinionitis, a very serious disease curable only by dancing in silence.

Sometimes curing these sorts of diseases takes time and patience.

You are only obstructed by your confusion.



There are no obstructions in reality, only complete freedom.

dan wrote:
 Your only purpose is then one of obstructing any who might have the temerity to seek larger issues.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Your confirmation bias has kicked into overdrive right now.

Relax Dan

Everything will work out just fine for the Gipper!

It is the best possible world.

If it wasn't already taken care of it wouldn't be any fun.

Dan,

99 has everything she needs and if she left then it was meant to be.

You talk a lot about about the best possible world for one who doesn't seem to really believe that.

We have no dumb obstruction missions Dan.

We see where Muppets are obstructing themselves and we point it out.

That is all.

dan wrote:

I see, below, that the mystical goon squad continues their cacophony.  

I gather that they really do consider me a trouble maker...... a person who is a clear and present danger to their mystical slumber.  

Goodbye Dan.

You have a lot of confused opinions, but they are yours.

There were several hogs in a pen filled with mud, feces, and a rare few apples.  Some of the hogs spent their time searching for apples.  Some of the hogs scoffed at those who spent their time searching because there is no real difference between apples, feces and mud.  It seemed obvious to both what the truth was.

Nunia.binus wrote:I had a portal vision/dream and thought I'd share... I was in my room and all of the sudden something or someone lifted me up through the roof and I went high up in the air.  I was over the earth,  only it wasn't the earth as we know it but a giant sphere completely dotted/covered with portals.  I could see inside the portals and they weren't to other locations, but rather they were different timelines or like different rolls of the dice for how our past/present/future play out.  Something or someone had plucked me up out of one, and was moving me over and then dropping me down into another one.  In transit, there was a giant spider-like creature--it was like a centaur but with the body of a spider and the torso and head/face of a woman.  And it was like this creature had become aware of me being transferred, and she started to give chase.  But then I was dropped into the destination portal before she was able to intercept.  And that's it.  We've heard about the queen bee.  I wonder if she knows anything about a queen spider...

It has begun...

Dan,

I have no fear.

Fear is all there is to fear.

You seem intent on inventing false descriptions of myself, and others, and then try to remove them from opposing Your jesus ( story book) restricted views.

You can throw all the fancy words in the enormous dictionary You swallowed at this, but it is a waste of time.

There is no god, no creator or any such invented garbage, there is a universal system that enables creation, and unless We re recognise this and operate with it, as opposed to against it. which this materialistic science cult is driving all into oblivion.

Hobbit

I Am the creator.

Also, I Am Jesus and this is my storybook.

I Am the second coming.

I know it’s hard to believe hobbit.

If you just knew who I Am you would believe.

Know thyself bitches!





You know who I be,
so come on dance with me!

Hobbit,

There is no god, no creator or any such invented garbage, there is a universal system that enables creation, and unless We re recognise this and operate with it, as opposed to against it. which this materialistic science cult is driving all into oblivion.

Ok, that’s an interesting statement, and I would have to partially agree...... about the cosmic system.

My only contention is that there must be something fundamentally personal about the cosmic system.



(cont.......)

If there is a universal system that enables creation then it follows that there is a creator.

What would be the point of a system that allows creation without actually having any creations?

Where there is a creation there is a creator.

Aaron,

Go easy here, please...... We’re trying to avoid categorical statements......

Let’s talk about the Source, for instance...... everyone recognizes the concept of a Source.  

First, we try to find common ground, and then we work from there.  

Around questions of religion and politics, folks operate with a hair trigger........ in a knee jerk fashion.  

It is these kind of reactions that we are trying to get beyond.  

The concept of a best possible world is another generally acceptable starting point.  

For instance, we agree on the idea of a Source...... ok, wonderful, so then, what would be the best possible Source......?

Best for whom or what.......?

However, there are going to be many folks, probably including Hobbit, who would rather not talk about a Source, rather they would prefer to talk about Eternal Return.  

That is the easiest way, Aaron, for Hobbit to avoid the very idea of Creation.  The world just is....... going around for Eternity.  

There is no direct argument against such a cosmology....... end of story?  

In fact, with the BPW, Eternity is built in, unlike with the orthodox prophetic tradition.  

In that tradition, eternity is only in the province of the Creator.  

I am attempting to sneak eternity into Creation itself.  This would be a central feature of panentheism.

Does donny understand panentheism?  I am told that, unlike mike, he is able to wax philosophical.  And I bet, I could teach mike a philosophical trick or two..... so none of should feel like we have job security, especially not chicken little.  

Face it, sports fans, the BPW has been cherry picked from everywhere.   It is turning out that everyone had an essential piece of the puzzle.  

The only question is whether the puzzle pieces can be put together in any sort of coherent fashion.  

My answer is...... yes, indeedy.......  

The biggest hurdle in putting the puzzle together is to figure out what to do with the piece called ‘personalism’...... this question strikes home to a lot of folks.

These folks do tend to see humanity as a cancer upon our little planet. Who can say they are wrong, or that they don’t have a point?


(cont.......)

I see

I’ve been working on the best possible burp.



That’s pretty personal.