Who do we think we are?

First topic message reminder :

Ok, sports fans.........

Before we ask ourselves any other questions........

Here is the #1 priority question........

Who the heck do we think we are?  

I’m not aware that this question has ever been seriously asked before.  The only precedent of which I’m aware is when it was simply posed by Paul Gauguin.  

I would not pose this question unless I thought I had the rudiments of an answer.  I’m seeking help from anyone who would be willing to participate in fleshing out the answer.  
..........

(The continuation of this ‘topic post’ is the no. 3 post (on the first page https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t361-who-do-we-think-we-are ) of this topic.....)

Ok, smelly,

Could you please explain Krishnamurti again to us......

First of all, there may be confusion between the two Krishnamurtis.


2:20.......

smelly is denying personhood.  

You can’t deny that without being in total denial.  

Personhood has built in responsibilities.  

They can only be denied at great cost to society.  

Otherwise, I can agree with UGK...... there is no such thing as enlightenment.  There is only personhood, and the infinite ways to try to deny it.  It is the only thing that cannot be denied.  

Personhood is the foundation of love and truth.  

Cosmic consciousness starts with the recognition of personhood, which, in its turn, starts with seeing your reflection in the eyes of the other.  

I don’t think hobbit understands this.  

Mere sentience is not consciousness.  Consciousness must include self awareness, as reflected in and by the other.  

Perhaps some animals can feel empathy. That is something.



(cont........)

.

Dogs can feel empathy, perhaps.

But I’m not sure that smelly can feel empathy.  

If he does, he is trying to deny it.

If he doesn’t, he is sociopathic.

I wonder if Marissa is aware that she might be living with a sociopath.  

That is not something I would want to wake up to.  

But that would be one kind of enlightenment.  

With humans, empathy is not optional, except for the sociopath, where it is non existent.


.

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The gradient theory makes no sense, if you consider human potentiality, for instance.

Remember there are time variations related to this world wide forum.

hobbits need their beauty sleep.

lots of gold and diamonds on display on heads this side of the pond, have You never wondered why such things are draped on heads ?

It's all to do with how materials refract/reflect consciousness, and is why Americas natives wore feathers.

Consciousness is malleable and locally accumulative, with the specific field variations interacting with the hosts field, as the moon does with earths field.

I can remember walking down the mall from Trafalgar square towards Buckingham palace following the most amazing flow of consciousness to end up with a machine gun stuck into My face with a moron telling Me to drop My rods or else.

Ignorance is almost total about the very nature of consciousness, but others clearly know, and utilise it for their own agendas.

The geometry is there all over this globe revealing how others have constructed to better interact with it, if it wasn't I would not be so driven, I simply follow in others footsteps, in all ages.


We are though entering a dark age of ignorance, and consciousness is both creator and dissolver, it is the grim reaper that takes itself back from all temporary living entities, and the grim reaper is well shown reaping at low level, and the surface flow is only upto aprox 30 inch above surface, no matter where the surface is.


The Norman churches are called the house of god, and they sure are accumulators of consciousness, later compass buildings are rubbish.


Chuches face East ...don't they....NO THEY DON'T

They are brilliantly FITTED to the matrix.



http://www.mysticmasque.com/history-mystery/church-orientation-alignment-and-solar-worship


https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271523030_Antiquaries_Journal_Vol_86_2006_pp206-226_'The_Rural_Church_in_the_Landscape_further_considerations_of_aspects_of_alignment_and_location

This man bothered to take the orientations of 1500 churches across GB, I have done similar with dowsing and can confirm that the church orientation is to a detectable matrix that varies relative to compass across GB.

THERE IS A MATRIX THAT YOU, ME, THIS PLANET.

Is built upon, it is not 3D physical, it is of universe, 3D physical is a consequence of it, as consciousness compresses into 3D memories.

This thread is asking who We are.....
We are all one aspect of an overall consciousness that enables and dissolves itself into 3D physical realities.

It is a system, and time/gravity are consequences and can be varied.

That's when SECRET SOCIETIES REAR THEIR UGLY HEADS, AND WITH TIME IN MIND FOR GOOD REASONS.

It's time to remember

hobbit,
It's always teatime .






hobbit

Self deluded moron Ack

UG...

Alan....

Have some balls and use your own words at least.

Do you even know the goal of philosophy?

Words=dualism

You either have the swing or you don’t.

I’m here Dan, I don’t need to elaborate on being.

Being needs no explanation.

You either get the joke or you invent a religion or philosophy to describe how you don’t get the joke.

Either way, quite amusing.

You either are tearing down the dualistic barriers or you are erecting them.

Which are you doing here?

Seeking this is as difficult as you would like it to be.

There are words and there is direct perception.

Words from those who directly perceive are indirect.

The very distinction between dualism and monism is again dualism: there is not a dualist Universe and a Zen one, or a world of logic and one of intuition, but merely two ways of looking at the same Tao. Zen does not oppose things, it unifies them. Even that bastion of logic and dualism that is (hard) science is not beyond the reach of Zen and Zen ways of thinking.

“is” and “is-not” or “has” and “has-not”...dualism.

Dualism isn’t evil.

It’s just a deluded state of mind.

It’s a tool.

A tool to learn the difference between what is real or not real.

Unless one has passed the gateless gate, they haven’t.

This is the uprooting of normal mind.

I only appear to resist your dualism.

I have unasked the question.

One speaks in koans to side step dualism.

To bypass the snakes.

Douglas Adam's famous “answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything”, is fourty-two, the only problem being that the actual question is unknown.

He didn’t lie, you are, to yourself and anyone who comes here.

It’s easy and lazy to say I am coping out and what I say is empty.

I certainly have trifled with emptiness and absurdity.

One must wrestle with them.

Language is dualism.

Beyond dualism there is no contradiction between humor and profoundness.

In other words, that perhaps even a dullard like you can grasp, philosophy is something too important to take seriously.

Know what I mean jelly bean?!

Zen is a form of humor.

So funny, so funny, the farting masters prove it.

Farts are funny and smelly, which makes it even funnier.

I won’t explain the smelly goat to dualists.

Can’t be done.

If you can’t get the joke, you are the joke.

Better compare Zen with an artistic practice, which tries to achieve a particular state of mind, that shares some properties with humor, the drawings of Magritte or Escher, or the phenomenon called “intuition” in (otherwise) rational thought, though it doesn't precisely overlap any of them.

Ok someone like Dan would say, yuh resist my logical dualism, yuh are mad then.

Madness is a state of mind where the barriers can’t be removed.

When there is no longer the element of surprise to the reader, the kōans no longer fulfill their function. So like in any other form of art, the trick is to subtly balance the order and chaos.

The idea is not to think of nothing, for it is not by putting our minds to sleep that we chance becoming Awake.

...

From “Gödel, Escher, Bach (“A Mu Offering”)”:

Tortoise:

Perhaps Zen is instructive because it is humorous. I would guess that if you took all such stories entirely seriously, you would miss the point as often as you would get it.

Achilles

Maybe there's something in your Tortoise-Zen.

Tortoise

Can you answer just one question for me? I would like to know this: Why did Bodhidharma come from India into China?

Achilles

Oho! Shall I tell you what Jōshū said when he was asked that very question?

Tortoise

Please do.

Achilles

He replied, “That oak tree in the garden.”

Tortoise

Of course; that's just what I would have said. Except that I would have said it in answer to a different question—namely, “Where can I find some shade from the midday sun?”

Achilles

Without knowing it, you have inadvertently hit upon one of the basic questions of Zen. That question, innocent as it sounds, actually means, “What is the basic principle of Zen?”

Tortoise

How extraordinary. I hadn't the slightest idea that the central aim of Zen was to find some shade.

Achilles

Oh, no—you've misunderstood me entirely. I wasn't referring to that question. I meant your question about why Bodhidharma came from India into China.

Smelly Goat Zen

Mu

https://aeon.co/essays/knowledge-is-a-stone-age-concept-were-better-off-without-it?fbclid=IwAR2IE_q9xCU3i5plfTMPSnr355EaKORywcfuyXKQ8-yupOiMvI6Iu0iJPYk

A tree told Me...
"build the knowledge"

hobbit

Dan can't talk millennial, another subject he is clueless about.


Daily pointlessness!

.

Yes, Ack,

I’m gradually being forced to conclude that both smelly and hobbit are sociopathic....... in as much as they unable to see persons, and are unable to feel compassion.  

Yes, dogs do evince compassion...... toward humans. smelly and hobbit do not.  

Is it possible to be empathic with sociopaths?  

It is not easy.  

Both of them have suffered greatly, at the hands of persons.  

Highly domesticated dogs are able to reflect aspects of personhood, and sometimes even amplify them.  

We are also mostly just reflectors, too, of course.  

But we do have something on dogs....... we each have direct access to the Monad.  Dogs have only indirect access, through us. We are their priests, in other words.  


10:35........

Yes, very perceptive, Aaron.  

smelly and hobbit, in the course of embracing some aspects of Nature, are both denying their own true natures.

They cut off their noses, just to spite their faces.



(cont.......)

.

Ack,

The darkness and ignorance they see in the world is mostly a reflection/projection of their own inner void.

I too can see the shadows, but I have the true knowledge that those shadows only mask the light.  

Yes, there is a great deal of masking....... and so there is a great deal of suffering.  

Why, as coCreators, would we inflict this suffering upon ourselves?  

smelly and hobbit cannot permit themselves to ever wonder why.  It’s rather like the charge of the Light Brigade...... yes, that is going with the flow.  

If they ever asked why, they would have to begin to exercise discernment.  They would have to recognize the Source.  

Because they suppose that everything is only a shadow, they are unable to see the trees for the forest.  They are unable to discern individual shadows....... pointing toward the Source.  

Not recognizing their own light, they are unable to see the light in others.  What a shame.  What a waste.

I think back to Osho...... do we remember dear Osho, as presented to us, by Eric?  

Osho and Rajneesh had one thing in common....... they were both sociopaths.  

Eric and hobbit may just be pretenders....... we can only hope.  


11:30........

My historical claim is that ‘Jesus’, and I need not claim that he actually existed or was resurrected, or the mythical person identified as such, is an unmatched historical marker for personhood.  

Christians still are the primary agents for bequeathing the notion of personhood upon the planet.  

This is simply an historical fact, which no one has seriously tried to refute.

I further recognize that most who call themselves Christians are quite unaware, certainly consciously, of this historical impact of their teaching.  

The vast majority of secular historians prefer to ignore this fact.  


What about other traditions......?

Let’s use Eric G as a case in point......

What he identifies as his personal void is simply his separation from the Source.  

The ‘mythical’ Jesus was the other side of Eric’s coin.

There are two kinds of mystics....... those who recognize the Source within, and those who don’t.  

Eric and hobbit are both of the latter kind.  

However, both sorts of mystic share something important......

They share a sense of cosmic wonder at the depth of their psyches. They both understand this inner, infinite dimension.  And they are able to see it being expressed and reflected around them.

What they both fail utterly to see, is the Source.  

It’s true that most people also fail, in this regard.

Many in the prophetic tradition are able to see the Source as being expressed in history...... something to which E&h claim to be oblivious.

This recognition is manifested most clearly in the peculiarly Christian tradition of a missionary evangelism.  A tradition that appears utterly abhorrent to E&h.

This same evangelical zeal is witnessed amongst most ufologists of the West, who see the phenomenon in strikingly prophetic terms, even, or especially, amongst the most secular of their kind.  

These evangelical, secular ufologists, see the phenomenon in singularly cosmic terms, almost by definition.  

Even orthodox Christians see the phenomenon as part of the prophetic signs and portents of the Endtimes.  


12:30........

By the same token the whole idea of Disclosure is abhorrent to Eric/smelly. I’ve not ascertained hobbit’s views, in this regard. I would suggest that hobbit is quite indifferent, in this matter.

At OM, hobbit is able to reinforce his knowledge of the unseen dimensions. Both are quite ambivalent about sharing.



(cont.......)

You just retreat to dualism, of course, jokes on you, as always, yawn.

You don't have the balls to face reality head on.

Enjoy your fairytales about yourselves.

Told you hobbit, they would retreat to calling us crazy.

I am not a mystic or claiming anything supernatural.

On the contrary, this is completely natural.

You have no idea what Zen is Ack, obviously.

You just bum around in a confused state.

It is the non-dual Tao or monad.

Which is just this here.

Make distinctions, stay confused.

Toodles.

.

Ack,

Any sort of discernment is branded as Dualism....... the root of all evil.  

Eric is unwilling to explain to us why humans, amongst all creatures, have been cursed with Discernment.  Eric closely associates this Curse with the despised Logos.

Eric is much enamored with the notion ‘here-ness’.  What here-ness might be in opposition to, he is very reluctant to say, of course.  

Although the explicit notion of being here, now, has a decidedly mystical origin, it really only makes sense in a prophetic context.  It is anti-cyclical, on its face.  


1:50........

Ok, here is a breakthrough........

The hidden meaning of the Tao is...... wait for it..... the Source.

The historically close relation between Taoism and Buddhism is that Buddha is the personification of the Source.

Yes, Buddha is the incarnation of the Tao.

No doubt about, sports fans.

For how long did everyone think they would be able to hind that little factoid from us?



(cont......)

But who is this song about?


hobbit

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/201305/how-spot-sociopath

I didn't realise that Dan was a qualified trick cyclist?

hobbit

smelly wrote:I guess this system can drive any of us monkeys to crack up, look at whoknows.

LOL there ya go again trying to drag me through your shit.

I still don't think any of us has a clue, and nothing that has been said here has come close to altering that thought.

Alas as one of the crazy monkeys I do love the show though.

Now, as 99, suggested to Dan. Take a long look in the mirror. You old fart you. you are well past your sell by date.

Big Hug for smelly...

Ack wrote:You are confused in that you think I am confused, poor smelly.

I am not confused

I know who I am

I am here, yes, but I am here as a person.

You seem to be the one confused about what you are here as.

You are here as 'this'

I am here as this person.

Your words betray you.

whoknows wrote:

smelly wrote:I guess this system can drive any of us monkeys to crack up, look at whoknows.

LOL there ya go again trying to drag me through your shit.

I still don't think any of us has a clue, and nothing that has been said here has come close to altering that thought.

Alas as one of the crazy monkeys I do love the show though.

Now, as 99, suggested to Dan. Take a long look in the mirror. You old fart you. you are well past your sell by date.

Big Hug for smelly...  

Relax, just kidding around leaky muppet.

smelly wrote:

whoknows wrote:

smelly wrote:I guess this system can drive any of us monkeys to crack up, look at whoknows.

LOL there ya go again trying to drag me through your shit.

I still don't think any of us has a clue, and nothing that has been said here has come close to altering that thought.

Alas as one of the crazy monkeys I do love the show though.

Now, as 99, suggested to Dan. Take a long look in the mirror. You old fart you. you are well past your sell by date.

Big Hug for smelly...  

Relax, just kidding around leaky muppet.

Missed me didn't ya

.

dan wrote:Ack,

Any sort of discernment is branded as Dualism....... the root of all evil.  

Eric is unwilling to explain to us why humans, amongst all creatures, have been cursed with Discernment.  Eric closely associates this Curse with the despised Logos.

Eric is much enamored with the notion ‘here-ness’.  What here-ness might be in opposition to, he is very reluctant to say, of course.  

Although the explicit notion of being here, now, has a decidedly mystical origin, it really only makes sense in a prophetic context.  It is anti-cyclical, on its face.  



(cont......)

Dan criticizes someone here, priceless.

I don't have to explain anything, I couldn't if I wanted to, so one wonders what you muppets are talking about.

I am not enamored with anything, I am just here.

There is no opposition here or confusion.

Just being here.

Being.

Be.

The rest is just made up stories.

What is like to be here?

If you talk about what is going to happen, you aren't here.

So where are you?

In Delusionland, it's in the middle of Disneyland.

Prophecy is the refuge of the lost and weary, the losers.

We don't need any prophecy, we are already here.

Enjoy muppets

Bahahahahahahahahaha

Ack wrote:wk,

You are totally wrong.

There are some of us here who in fact do have a big clue.... a really big clue.

Dan is not past is sell date either.

Dan is at his prime.

Dan is one of the most intelligent people I have ever met and he is showing no signs of slowing down.

With smelly around Dan has only gotten smarter.

Smelly is Dan's tool for sharpening his sword of truth.

You have not been paying attention wk.

Sharpen your pencil and do your homework, you might learn something about your self.

You don't have the clue you think you have.

Again, your words illustrate this.

This is why one must settle it for themselves before they venture out among the wolves.

There are many liars and thieves about.

I have this sharp sword here, no problemos.

Oh my.