Who do we think we are?

First topic message reminder :

Ok, sports fans.........

Before we ask ourselves any other questions........

Here is the #1 priority question........

Who the heck do we think we are?  

I’m not aware that this question has ever been seriously asked before.  The only precedent of which I’m aware is when it was simply posed by Paul Gauguin.  

I would not pose this question unless I thought I had the rudiments of an answer.  I’m seeking help from anyone who would be willing to participate in fleshing out the answer.  
..........

(The continuation of this ‘topic post’ is the no. 3 post (on the first page https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t361-who-do-we-think-we-are ) of this topic.....)

Dan,

In a plane, in a rocket, in a submarine....are all surface , they are mere local attempts to create the self same condition as at the surface, they are made of materials of the surface.


No human can survive away from the surface condition, a few minutes at the most.
No human has been in space, they are in temporary surface condition material boxes.

Humans cannot survive where a worm lives, or where fish live.

How do You know that a worm is not sapient?

hobbit

Best Possible (Disclosure) Politics?

The truth is out there. Are any 2020 candidates going to address it?

https://theweek.com/articles/844329/truth-there-are-2020-candidates-going-address

Gary,  

The Truth is not out there.  The Truth is in here.  

No figure of authority is prone to admit that there is something over which they have no authority.  

No official is authorized to declare the world to be an illusion.  

Prophets come in out of the desert.  

Prophecy........ you may take it or leave it.

What has been happening in public is that scientists have been loosing their authority, since the high water mark of science in the ‘50s.

Many folks are still waking up to this fact.

They may embrace the mystical, the ‘fundamentals’ or they may look for some new way to make sense of the world.

The only way that will make any sense, beyond science, is to put mind before matter, and to understand that persons are the children of a benevolent cosmic being.

Your skepticism belongs to you. You are waiting for something better to come along. Happy waiting........

You’ll have to wait a long time for something better than the best. Something worse can be provided in a jiffy.



(cont.......)

Paranormal phenomena can manifest in various states of density. But just because there's interdimensional anomalous phenomena like UFO's for example, does not make it any less real or, in many cases, any less physical than the chair you're sitting in.

99,

The question you are trying to ask is whether phenomena contain the truth, or whether they point to the truth.  

I suggest the latter.

If the phenomena are pointing, whither do they point?

Either they point to Beta Centauri, or they point to the God within.

Which possibility makes more sense to you, 99?  


hobbit,

I don’t know that caterpillars are not sapient, or that they will not turn into butterflies.  

In fact, I’m almost certain that there is a dimension in which caterpillars are sapient.  I have no doubt that we all have potential access to that dimension...... you especially, hobbit.

The only question I put to you is...... what are we going to do about it?  

I would encourage you to work with caterpillar consciousness, if you are motivated to do so.  

I happen to be motivated to work with human consciousness.  

Science robbed us of our personhood.  I am attempting to restore personhood.  

Yes, in the process of restoring personhood, caterpillarhood should also be restored.  

You are suggesting that focusing on persons will be to the detriment of other creatures.  

There is even historical evidence to suggest that this is the case.  

The Christian religion is the most Anthropocentric, and it is the one most closely associated with the scientific revolution, which has done so much to plunder the natural world.



(cont........)

time to pretend.

Here's a comment by someone on J. Vallee's evolving POV in the comment section of a YouTube vid about Vallee. I find it very intriguing. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhM6q7roy1w

"Jacque vallee's role in development of the ARPANET actually brings a whole intriguing layer to his contribution to UFOs. The internet, as he and peers envisioned it, was essentially a psychedelic drug and potential social control system...the internet's​ inception seems like a prophesied consciousness shift more than anything else. But ARPANET's first, top secret use for private communications channels for military black operations. this, coinciding with the launches of spy satellites, testing stealth aircraft and drones/UAVs seems to lend itself to the UFO psyops that we know today were used to obfuscate military programs. Vallee consciously or not developed technology for a global counterinsurgency control system that allegedly used UFO stories to camoflauge it's development and normalization...while also helping design and launch the very consciousness shift (internet) he alluded to!
So who's creating who? is the alien creating us, or are we creating the alien...or are we creating each other?"

Seven billion Kumaras and still counting, All those liberated souls, games of pretend.

All connected.

U, is right it won't be long.

Really it's true, not much need be said. Be careful about looking into the blind spot though. It's right where you are. Sublime.

Yes, 99,

This is a very apropos question that is being raised.  

The answer is codependent arising.  This would include visitors and caterpillars.


And, as wk seems to be suggesting, the issue of sustainability is not a high priority amongst those who await the Day of the Lord.

.

99 wrote:Paranormal phenomena can manifest in various states of density. But just because there's interdimensional anomalous phenomena like UFO's for example, does not make it any less real or, in many cases, any less physical than the chair you're sitting in.

99,

You are self similar to a UFO.
You are able to operate separate from the field of the earth.
All so called living entities operate so.
You are not MOVING when operating as You do, You are displacing in location within the confines of the earths field, the consciousness field You are within is limited ( shouldn't be) thus the displacement is limited.

UFOs display huge consciousness fields, therefore they are difficult to see via our limited senses.


The local ability to create a powerful consciousness field is what a UFO is.

Super high voltages (low amperage) coupled with multi layered materials of conductive/resistive layers as per Wilhelm Reichs accumulator will induce such a field,or maybe ark of the covenant???

Insects know how to do this via chitin, hence the iridescent colours, it is humans who need to learn these things, but We are so entrenched in oil etc that it is near impossible to achieve.


First off is recognition of the field of consciousness, without that You are dealing with blind humans.


hobbit

Ack and hobbit, et al......

Coherence comes with its own, built-in, BS meter.  

Coherence demands simplicity at the top and bottom.  In between we have the best possible amount of natural extravagance, and, yes, diversity.

I believe that coherence must remain the touchstone of the best possible world.  The person you refer to did not put any value in the exchange of ideas.  He wanted conversation to stop....... to be replaced with monologue, evidently.  

Science goes a long way in observing and helping us to understand the objectifiable aspects of coherence, but has no way to embrace it.  If ecology has any intrinsic value, it does not come from science.  

The paranormal, the numinous, is an essential part of any larger comprehension of the world that would embrace life and mind.  

There are many who suggest, and rightly so, that humanity is out of control...... that we are violating our natural limits....... we are like a cancerous growth upon the planet.  Eventually, perhaps sooner than later, the ecological balance of nature will restore itself.  

With a natural balance, there is no need for a time dimension, beyond annual and generational cycles.  

What is the purpose of history?  

We might as well ask..... what is the purpose of civilization..... and the cycles thereof?

With the idea of the best possible world, why can we not do a freeze frame........ before it’s too late.

Why couldn’t Creation have come with smart phones, for instance...... or with just hunting and gathering?

Or, even, why did we have to have persons. There are many who suppose, and rightly so, that the Earth would have been better off with the rogueries of humans.

The entire prophetic tradition seems made up just to rationalize our roguery.



(cont.......)

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitin
A caterpillar said I should be far more aware of chitin, it is.

And a fellow dowser called Grebennikov was also
http://keelynet.com/greb/greb.htm








Hobbit

hobbit,

It might be considered a bit ironic.......

The caterpillar seems to be implying that it is here to goad your curiosity....... about chitin.  

Any self respecting ecologist might be aghast.  

But, hold on, let’s consider this little scenario........

We could ask a similar question about the Fibonacci series, or the Golden section, etc.......

What is Nature without a mirror, and aren’t we, in some sense, the mirror of Nature?  

Certainly if there were a Creator, it would be too easy to anthropomorphise, to project our vanity onto the Creator.

But what about art......? Somehow, would the world not be something less without art...... almost as if something were missing?

Yes, our goat friend would be appalled by the very notion, but were there not times when he genuinely appreciated art?



(cont.......)

Point of fact Dan, I just insisted on telling people the truth about what we know by being honest with ourselves about what we ourselves know and don’t know.

You insist on lying delusions.

So your and my conversation is over.

I’ll stay out of your hair.

It was fun, been REAL.

...... speaking of the devil.......

..... even the art of others.  

If there were a God, I’m she would have place in her heart for the smelly One.

Why does there have to be a God, though? Can’t we be the appreciators, in residence? Wouldn’t that suffice for..... whatever? Why do we have to question our existence...... our place in nature?

Didn’t curiosity kill the cat?



(cont.......)

dan wrote:

Yes, our goat friend would be appalled by the very notion, but were there not times when he genuinely appreciated art?  



(cont.......)

Dan,

I believe everyone appreciates art whether they are conscious of it or not including Smelly

We are all walking masterpieces

it would just be nice that unlike many of the great masters who are no longer with us but left behind their legacy for us to marvel that we the current 7.6 billion - Da Vinci's, Rembrandt's, Monet's, Thoreau's, Blake's etc know this in our lifetime.

I love the story which tells of the works which Monet produced towards the end of his life when his sight was failing.. some of the most beautiful to me.. all from his garden.. because we don't see them with our eyes..

If we are talking art - we need Doug!

Thank you, Scott,

The fact is, we need everyone......... that fact can be hard to prove, but...... maybe it’s worth a try..... or two.

.

I’ll hold the line here Dan.

Not many can or will.

I can stick it.

I won’t wobble.

It’s just about focus.

No thought or delusion can move me any longer.

I don’t know if it matters or not in the grand scheme of such a thing exists.

I’m just living here as a child.

My writing was just for me.

I don’t know how, but this was the way that materialized for me.

It isn’t for anyone else per se.

I’ll be a good steward of whatever comes my way.

I couldn’t really do that before very well.

But I found the rhythm or it set me right.

It starts and ends with the beating of your heart and the air filling and leaving your body.

A body apparanetly here but not real.

More delusion isn’t helping anyone.

Only increasing the distance we will fall back to earth.

To our still point.

We need some more children in the world playing it seems.

I invite any to join me.

It’s play time, laters.

The owl of this world lives in the ruins of love.

smelly’s art appreciation was, maybe..... just a tad narrow.  

All of our art appreciations are just a tad narrow...... maybe.


smelly,

Certainly there are bad delusions.  

Is it slightly possible, however, that there was ever a good delusion?  

The artistry of delusions might be an acquired taste.  

Think of all of us, mediocre artists in the world.  Is it beyond the realm of possibility that one Vincent could redeem a thousand dabblers?  

Would good art even make any sense without ‘bad’ art.  

Would artistic genius be able to take our breath away...... make us cry, if once upon a time we had not gotten our fingers dirty with finger paint?  

Can there even be such a thing as ‘bad’ art.  Is a toddler’s creation to be sneered upon?  

Every castle built in the sand....... does it not speak to something inside of us trying to manifest...... trying to share with the world?  Is that a delusion?  Could humans possibly exist without such delusions?  

Is it beyond you, smelly, to accept our delusions as a part of a larger whole?  



(cont.......)

All I can say is I passed through incredible landscapes and not one of them was true about me or this world.

We all have it in us to be genius level artists if we can let the flow flow, but we can only realize it beyond thought.

I’m sorry, but now I must leave you.

I like this line^^^

I can imagine me feeling this way back when.

We do not speak this way here.

We do not need to say anything here.

I always say too much, but now I really am going to shut up and evaporate.

Toodles.

I have to pick up on Ack..........

How can we possibly draw distinctions between art, imagination and thought.....?

And when I say that, aren’t I pointing to the evil side of words...... we are always using them to make distinctions....... nay, to make invidious distinctions....... to be hurtful, even.

So much for the Logos!



(cont......)

Smelly,

you will return I sense, OM would be incomplete without you

and mama as Dan has reminded us "don't allow no gaps.."

you have always been here and as with art,  how can the picture be painted in the absence of the full palette? no..

I believe it is time for us all, together, to paint the world the beautiful colours..

If we should take anything from the legacy of those great artists of times past - irrespective of their field, genre etc they I do believe would want all the children to pick up their metaphoric brushes and paint a new picture which can double as the new scenery for our collective 'play of life.'