Immaterialism 4

First topic message reminder :

This is the continuation of the Immaterialism 3 thread.......

The original topic reminder post https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t320-immaterialism
should be substituted here......

............

Explore into its depths, whatever pops up in appearance.

There are those who declare that the M man is the truth, and never lied.

Hobbits don't tend to read, especially fiction.

Hobbits observe.

hobbit

smelly,

....... we want to leave the world.......

We, muppets, are pearl divers.  This Earthly sojourn is our diving expedition.

We find pearls of great price, and bring them back home. If we stay down too long, we get the bends.

smelly, believes that this is his home.  I think you’ve got another think coming, smelly.  

You, smelly, are a chip of the old block.  You pretend not to realize.  You are a microcosm.  All your mystic buddies are acosmic, so they are nihilists.  The prophetic tradition is a tradition of cosmologists, and the j-man...... he nailed it.  

For everyone else it’s just maya/karma...... which, by definition, ads up to squat.  

The mystic does not compute for the UFO Muppet who can only see the material aspect of this phonomena.

Very true, smelly....... it’s simply the ETH v the UTH. But do I look like a ufologist. I’m as much of a heretic amongst ufologists, as I am amongst Evangelicals.



(cont......)

There are those who declare that the Ben Ish Chai is the truth.


A very dear friend of this hobbit is a direct descendant.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ben+ish+chi&id=AB1280919168BA08AD022FD4E2089136476BCB75&FORM=IQFRBA


I met Her father lord rietti many times, a leading kabbalist.

We had interesting talks.


hobbit

Mystics are NOT all nihilists!!!

As above, so below.

Microcosm and macrocosm.

Who is arguing here?

But all who face themselves have to face the danger of nihilism.

Did I say all had to face themselves, most have no idea who they are, so if who and what they are wanted them to know, they would.

Your condemnation of nihilism tells me where you are with the unconscious Dan. It is a very very lazy and uninformed opinion, as that is just what the mystic is to you, an opinion, when it is half of our entire life.

That’s a very muppet way to see things.

Shame on you for comments like that spoken to the ufo muppets who can’t see into what you pronounce.

Dan, my home is wherever I am.

I am not overly attached to heaven or hell.

I know we are pearl divers.

I simply repeat over and over in many different ways, that we can look within and to what we are connected to to know what to do.

No missions, no vengeful gods.

Our thoughts do not lead, nor do our feelings, but they happen.

We happen and our Wu Wei is to breathe and pump blood and sense things.

Yes, we observe and act doing not doing.

I have accepted my death and the illusory nature of being.

I have a lot of fun wit those who would make an idol of themselves and being.

I mark the Way to Self, seemed like the appropriate thing to do.

I have been enjoying the response.

The Way to Self, in 1918 Jung noted that all of us live between two worlds: the world of external perception and the world of perception of the unconscious.

Both are happening now.

What is the argument between us?

I have none.

I have been the same person basically since I got to OMF, just an explorer looking for fellow explorers to compare notes with, no questions, no agenda, just some far out experiences and some beautiful down to earth ones too, and some trips to Hell.

Just another day in the life.

The UFO Muppet is a weird strange muppet in the material world.

They have caught my curiosity and pity.

Being between a rock and a hard place is hard until it isn’t.

Anytime someone speaks up for the inside experience, we run into trouble.

It appears as madness to the uninitiated and you do have to be initiated.

It is a divine madness. A reading of words from The Red Book...

“My soul spoke to me in a whisper, urgently in alarmingly: words, words, do not make too many words. Be silent and listen: have you recognized your madness, and do you admit it? Have you noticed that all your foundations are all completely mired in madness?

Jung’s soul: ‘There are hellish webs of words, only words...be tentative with the words, value them for you are the first to get ensnared in them. For words have meanings. With words you you pull up the underworld. Word, the paltriest and the mightiest. In words the emptiness and the fullness flow together. Hence the word is an image of the God.’

But if the word is a symbol, it means everything. When the way enters death and we are surrounded by a rot and horror, the way rises in the darkness and leaves the mouth as the saving symbol, the word.

Jung’s soul: ‘You possess the word that should not be allowed to remain concealed.’

What is my word?! My word is like the stammering of a child.

Soul: ‘They do not see the fire, they do not believe your words, but they see your mark and unknowingly suspect you to be the messenger of the burning agony… You mutter, you stammer.’

Mine is a high clumsy speech.

‘I knew that Philemon had intoxicated me giving me a language that was foreign to me and of a different sensitivity. All of this faded when the God arose and only Philemon kept that language.’”

It’s funny, smelly....... you claim to know yourself, as if we all have different selves.

That is a superficial observation.  

A foundational premise of the BPWH is that there is only one soul...... one self..... which ultimately is the Monad.  

You deny that.  Too bad.  You mislead others, in that and many other regards.  

Apparently, you have no clue about monism..... you who claim so much inner knowledge.  


hobbit,

Your references are terribly obscure.  They are of no help as a guide to the perplexed.  If you can’t state your worldview in simple sentences, you are merely wasting others’ time.  

You should not be on this thread.  Have your conversation with smelly on another thread, please.  


I should remind folks that smelly has his own forum, these days.  He has posted a link here.  He might do so again, please.  Aaron also posts there.  


There is something urgent about the human situation.......

My time here is spent in that context.  Those who dispute the urgency, may do so explicitly.  Otherwise, you are simply being obstructive.  Please, carry on your business as usual, somewhere more appropriate.  

Only the prophetic tradition recognizes the sense of urgency and ultimacy.  Others are engaged in an eternal filibuster.  

Let us get on with the business of survival, if we may.......

But, hey, we’ve already won the survival lottery....... this is the best possible world, after all.  

So, yes, we can begin to spend more time on the inward journey.  However, we still will have a very difficult transition period ahead of us.  We are entering the most perilous part of the journey.  

We can share an inner confidence of success...... we will need it for the dark times still ahead.  

And the ‘cosmic trigger’ is a very important land mark for gauging our progress.  As I say, we hope that this crucial event can be minimal..... nearly under the radar....... just enough for those who know what to look for.  

Perhaps, I am being too optimistic about last week’s event, but let’s see if we can get on with the show, regardless.  

Are my hands on the steering wheel......?  No, but I might play a helmsperson on tv.  It’s all about the the optics.... the psychology.  Would you really fly in a plane without a pilot...... a driverless car?  I’ll let the youngsters deal with those questions.  


(cont........)

You mislead others out of your lack of experience and Awareness Dan.

I see your lack of awareness about yourself is profound and entrenched.

So what.

It's their choice.

If you don't want anyone around with a different experience than you, so be it.

I found value in opposition, where you can't abide any, moron muppet move there.

Your limited view and understanding is yours alone.

If you don't know you have many selves inside you, you don't know yourself very well.

You seem to retain almost none of the good points from the books we have read.

You reduced them down to your version of things.

We often run into the limits of your Awareness Dan.

We all have them.

I will stay out of your web of confusion if you so desire.

You have no need to reference or speak for smelly here on your thread, and I have nothing to discuss with you.

I shall continue to share my experiences in the underworld in my other space Dan.

I have no idea what you are on about at all, not one bit after all these years, it's irrelevant.

See ya.

Thank you, Eric.  

You have many valuable insights that could be, and have been, useful, as we make the journey back to the cosmic center.  

But right now, we need a cooperative balance.  

Let’s take a break from each other for a few days, and reassess.......

Thanks.......

Missions always make a mess of things...

Relax guys...

Take your breaks if you need.

There is always rest now in the breath.

One thing we all agree on is that this is the best possible world.

If that is what you really believe than you all can relax.

Only frustrated egos need breaks.

I am happy to give Dan's ego space from now until eternity come

This applies to any confused muppet.

Dan,

Just enjoyed your 'Want to Party' piece.

Carl Sagan's 'We are one planet'?  - always loved Carl's thoughts and words though, I will humbly admit (My not being in the OM premier Philosophy league)

Are we talking Panentheism or Pantheism?

I also saw yesterday that a Music and Art festival is to be staged at Yasgur's farm at Bethel Woods this summer.

It sure would be nice to end our collective journey on a high note, maybe Ubuntu?

Maybe even a post 'event' OM party?

Though, in speaking of Ubuntu and taking one of your previous post comments re 'the bedbugs' I am trusting the divine extends a new understanding to all 'life', especially non homo-sapien forms of life.

I potty trained my daughter over the past few weeks.

She had to have many accidents in order for her to learn but now she is a pro.

Aaron wrote:I potty trained my daughter over the past few weeks.

She had to have many accidents in order for her to learn but now she is a pro.

Aaron,

Your daughter clearly has a loving dad and great teacher. Teacher and pupil.

Perhaps we all are a mix of Teacher and pupil on an interchanging basis. I am certainly grateful for what this muppet has learned from my time on OM.

Personally, I like and agree with Gregg Braden's view that Cooperation certainly 'Trump's' Competition

Teacher/student is a muppet concept.

Memento Mori

Thanks Smelly

There is no competition, there is only the dance and flow of movement.

Sometimes confused thinking perceives what is as competition but confusion can help us find clarity if we allow it to.

We really don’t know why Dan absolutely refuses to acknowledge the mystical aspect.

It doesn’t matter at all really, only limits him.

He just read a book about it in Green Man, didn’t really help.

It clearly laid out the dangers and reality of the cost to know your self.

But so what, not a problem really, just the way things are.

At least the terms are clear and the reality that our experience is not at all as Dan describes was valuable to learn on OMF for me.

I shared spontaneously mostly and I know that was for me mostly to learn to trust the intuition.

There are some nasty muppets about here.

If you are smart and open, you followed the clues, otherwise, you simply dug in deeer to your biases and fears.

It has been one of the most mystical things in my life to observe how incredible the synchronicities were here with people I met and that Dan can’t consciously relate to now, makes me laugh.

The more I stepped out on a scary branch, the more I found, lesson there for sure.

The more resistance I got, the closer I knew I was to the mark.

It has been a great place to learn about consciousness.

It only works with respect, humor and open communication and we don’t have that on OMF unfortunately.

We have a bunch of conspiracy theory obsessed people who want Disclosure info not realizing what is happening on a deeper level.

Best.

Without leaving my house
I know the whole Universe
-Lao Tzu

Reading up on acosmic...

Dan's claim that Mystics are all acosmic.

Mystics might see the world as illusory but that doesn't mean we also think the only thing real is the infinite unmanifest Absolute, that is one half of the two sided coin.

Both the manifest and unmanifest are equally "real", they imply each other.

Nihlism is a lazy man's cop out.

Zen and Tao are the cure to nihlism.

There is only this flowing experience now, dance with it.

"The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it and join the dance" -Alan Watts

Nihlists don't dance well, they just burry their head in the sand, they resist the flow and the manifest. Mystics just dance and sing.

It takes imagination and intuitions to walk backwards into bliss and dance.

The Way is like music,
The rhythm of the Tao,
The melody of mysticism,
And the harmony of Zen,
Create the symphony of Wow!

Wow is always here NOW NOW NOW.

Dan,

Your suggestion that I should piss off , made You appear as a tin pot dictator.

It was essentially "My way , or the highway"

Hobbit

dan wrote:It’s funny, smelly....... you claim to know yourself, as if we all have different selves.

That is a superficial observation.  

A foundational premise of the BPWH is that there is only one soul...... one self..... which ultimately is the Monad.  

You deny that.  Too bad.  You mislead others, in that and many other regards.  

Apparently, you have no clue about monism..... you who claim so much inner knowledge.  


hobbit,

Your references are terribly obscure.  They are of no help as a guide to the perplexed.  If you can’t state your worldview in simple sentences, you are merely wasting others’ time.  

You should not be on this thread.  Have your conversation with smelly on another thread, please.  


I should remind folks that smelly has his own forum, these days.  He has posted a link here.  He might do so again, please.  Aaron also posts there.  


There is something urgent about the human situation.......

My time here is spent in that context.  Those who dispute the urgency, may do so explicitly.  Otherwise, you are simply being obstructive.  Please, carry on your business as usual, somewhere more appropriate.  

Only the prophetic tradition recognizes the sense of urgency and ultimacy.  Others are engaged in an eternal filibuster.  

Let us get on with the business of survival, if we may.......

But, hey, we’ve already won the survival lottery....... this is the best possible world, after all.  

So, yes, we can begin to spend more time on the inward journey.  However, we still will have a very difficult transition period ahead of us.  We are entering the most perilous part of the journey.  

We can share an inner confidence of success...... we will need it for the dark times still ahead.  

And the ‘cosmic trigger’ is a very important land mark for gauging our progress.  As I say, we hope that this crucial event can be minimal..... nearly under the radar....... just enough for those who know what to look for.  

Perhaps, I am being too optimistic about last week’s event, but let’s see if we can get on with the show, regardless.  

Are my hands on the steering wheel......?  No, but I might play a helmsperson on tv.  It’s all about the the optics.... the psychology.  Would you really fly in a plane without a pilot...... a driverless car?  I’ll let the youngsters deal with those questions.  


(cont........)

My views may be "obscure" to those who cannot see, such as Yourself.

Open minds forum.....hmmmmmm????

Hobbit

To be CLEAR.

IMHO ( in My hobbit opinion)

All religions are invented control systems.







https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/story-of-jesus-christ-was-fabricated-to-pacify-the-poor-claims-controversial-biblical-scholar-8870879.html


And the biggest control lie is the story of Jesus.


Those BELIEVERS of any of these systems are easily locked into the control system and will try to defend that system against those who do not adhere to it's rules.

Science is a new control system.


History is written by the victors.

Hobbit