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UFOs, Extraterrestrial Contact, Conspiracy, Exopolitics, Geopolitics, Paranormal, Crypto-zoology, Ancient History, Cutting-Edge Science & Special Guests.

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» What Music Are You Listening To ?
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» Livin Your Best Life
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» Baudrillardian hauntology - what are some haunting truths to our reality?
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Where did all the Open Minds Forum members go?

Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:29 pm by Admin

With Open Minds Forum restored now for almost half a year at it's new location with forumotion.com we can now turn to look at reaching out to OMF's original members who have not yet returned home. OMF's original membership was over 6,000 members strong, prior to the proboards suspension, according to the rolls of the time. We can probably safely assume that some of those accounts were unidentified socks. If we were to assume a reasonable guess of maybe as many as 30% possible sock accounts then that would leave potentially somewhere between 4800 to 4900 possible real members to locate. That is still a substantial number of people.

Who were all these people? Some were average individuals with common interests in ufology, exopolitics, globalism, corruption, earthchanges, science and technology, and a variety of other interests. Some just enjoyed being part of a vibrant and unusually interesting community. Others were representative of various insider groups participating in observation and outreach projects, while still others were bonafide intelligence community personnel. All with stake in the hunt for truth in one fashion or another. Some in support of truth, and communication. Others seeking real disclosure and forms of proof. And others highly skeptical of anything or limited subjects. The smallest division of membership being wholly anti-disclosure oriented.

So where did these members vanish to? They had many options. There are almost innumerable other forums out there on the topics of UFO's or Exopolitics, the Unexplained, and Conspiracy Theory. Did they disappear into the world-wide network of forum inhabitants? Did some go find new homes on chatrooms or individual blogs? Did they participate in ufo conventions or other public events and gatherings? How about those who represented groups in special access? Or IC and military observers? Those with academic affiliations? Where did they all go and what would be the best way to reach out and extend an invitation to return?

And what constitutes a situation deserving of their time and participation? Is the archive enough? How exactly do people within the paradigm most desire to define a community? Is it amenities, humanity or simply population size for exposure? Most of the special guests have been emailed and have expressed that population size for exposure is what most motivates them. But not all. Long-time member Dan Smith has other priorities and values motivating his participation. Should this open opportunities for unattached junior guests who have experience and dialog to contribute to the world? How best to make use of OMF's time, experience and resources?

Many skeptics would like to see the historical guardian of discourse opportunity to just up and disappear; go into permanent stasis. They think that not everyone has a right to speak about their experiences and if there is no proof involved then there can philosophically be no value to discourse. I personally would respectfully disagree with them. Discourse has always been the prelude to meaningful relationships and meaningful mutual relationships have always been the prelude to exchanges of proof. In a contentious social environment with regards to communication vs disclosure how do we best re-establish a haven for those preludes? Is it only the "if we build it they will come" answer? Well considering OMF has been largely fully functional over the last four or five months this line of reasoning is not necessarily true. So what would be the best way re-establish this? Your suggestions are sought. Please comment.





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    Post by dan Wed Nov 15, 2023 6:56 pm

    First topic message reminder :

    (This topic is a continuation of Personalism 102).

    Why is there something rather than nothing?  

    Looking at it statistically, the likelihood of nothing is minuscule compared likelihood of anything.  

    However, from the perspective of modern cosmology, the Anthropic Principle tells that universes with observers are extremely rare.

    But, by whose say so, can an unobservable universe be said to exist?  

    A related question is what constitutes an observer?

    What if any role might sapience play in the act of observation?
    ………  


    But this first post is a header post…….. so I will continue in the following post…….



    (cont………)
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    Post by dan Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:05 pm

    Potentiality exists throughout nature.  

    Would you say, BBL, that there is anything exceptional about our human potential?

    Unlike the Naturalists, we might say that human potential is unnatural.

    If this were true, what might be the consequences?  

    But wait…….. is there any definition of natural?  

    Is nature natural, for instance?  

    To be natural is not to be the product of artifice.

    Consider the Penrose number……. 10^10^123.  

    If this number were written in decimal form, it would have many more zeros than there are atoms in the universe.  

    It’s the improbability that our world could exist by chance.  

    To suggest that this is the result of fine tuning……. would seem to give a whole new meaning to tuning.  

    At the very least, it might suggest the existence of a vital or teleological force.  

    It could suggest the existence of a Creator.  

    Or we could employ Occam’s razor…….. instead of positing a deity, we simply posit a transpersonal dimension to human nature.

    Or we simply suppose that our Dreamtime never ended……. it simply became of higher resolution……. as more of us came on the scene.

    But what about nature?

    Who then ordered nature?

    If metabolism didn’t already exist, who could have invented it?

    That would be a long slog, but with just a smidgen of teleology and vitalism, metabolism pretty much falls off the rack.

    Who invented the game of Pok a Tok?

    Were the gods crazy, or did they just get bored 🥱?

    And then we just fall back on the question of why is there something, rather than nothing?

    The only real phenomenon is an observed phenomenon.

    If there is anything, it has to include an observer……. and not just any old observer.



    (cont……..)
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Sat Aug 24, 2024 10:40 pm

    I’ll continue our thread, but the most interesting thing just popped up related to scientific naturalism.

    Willam Blake said there is no natural religion and that nature was in the process of evolving toward full creativity,

    He felt philosophy and science are informed and inspired from divine genius, but they will whither cut off from their source.

    He felt our imagination was where mind and cosmos overlap.

    He didn’t like scientific naturalism, as it cuts us off from our source, from the Eden Eternity.

    We must long for it.

    We must imagine it.

    He saw the emanations he imagined.

    Science can’t tread on that ground…yet.

    I’ve seen my share of imaginal beings and had inner experiences that greatly increased in intensity as I became more aware of how the inner and outer worlds seemed to be collaborating behind my back.

    A great conspiracy, the greatest perhaps.

    You feel like the adventurer heading into the dark cave with nothing but his pack, sword, and torch.

    You can’t take anyone’s or thing’s word for this, you have to suit up and head into the cave.

    Blake felt we will enter into this imaginal world when we die.

    He wasn’t a naturalist, he was an idealist.

    What was most mental was most fundamental for him.

    If nature is moving toward full creativity then perhaps so are we.

    Are we returning to Eternity?

    Blake left us a powerful vision of Eternity.

    And he had the goods.

    He was possessed by his divine genius.

    He let his awareness expand to infinity.

    He was blinded by the Light!

    I feel he was an extraordinary artist.

    He moves me.

    What moved him, can move us, if we let it.

    Were his visions disease?

    I think he certainly often lost his mind and from there he touched something beyond description.

    Our minds perceive inner and outer visions.

    IT becomes as we are, so we can become as IT is.

    Blake’s recipe was to grasp Eternity again.

    The finite will be consumed.

    Blake promised he gave us a golden thread.

    I think he did.

    If I personally hadn’t had my own encounters with the deep depths of mind, I couldn’t really see Blake or meet him where he lives now.

    Can we know the Above?

    Do we become as God in Blake’s state?

    Our inner experience cannot be ignored.

    It is what makes the material observations possible.

    We try to ignore the source of our curiosity and thought itself.

    Religion gave us frameworks to explore these inner imaginal experiences.

    But none are true on their own I know.

    They are just starting points.

    The art of the Orthodox faiths stayed close to their founding symbols.

    Their icons have great power, as any art does that comes from our starry depths.

    These are mysteries to me Dan.

    These are powerful primal forces.

    Gnosis is confusing and difficult to integrate.

    I feel to be very cautious.

    The esoteric provides us tools developed over millennia to explore and know ourselves.

    They were hidden from us.

    We have to want to look into this.

    A scientific mysticism seems the best way to face life, a fully engaged mind.

    I think science has a mystical side known by many Scientists.

    Some keep quiet, most ignore it, some explore it privately with other like minded folks I’m sure.

    Following the golden thread can only be done through expanding our awareness and considering our inner experience as well as our sense experience.
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    Post by dan Sun Aug 25, 2024 7:59 am

    Speaking of Blake……..

    https://bq.blakearchive.org/39.3.white …. Blake’s Resolution to the War Between Science and Philosophy

    ……. a badly titled article……. but it lays the groundwork for Owen Barfield.  

    The content rather supports the modern and postmodern denigration of philosophy.

    Leibniz is nowhere mentioned, for instance.  

    Nowhere is there a mention of personhood.

    The poets, like BBL, feel they must do battle with concepts……. across the board.  

    Yes, philosophers had their own agenda……. to continue their battle against the dark hegemon of Religion.

    So, in all their haste, they couldn’t wait to throw out the Logos with the bath water.  

    In the last several centuries, science has given a bad name to religion and philosophy.  

    The poets go a step further, and besmirch reason…….. while scientists proclaim their embrace of reason.  

    The philosophers fall over themselves to embrace science.  

    Poets embrace postmodern pluralism.

    What are persons……. but just another outmoded concept……. another concept to analyze and deconstruct.  

    Secular humanism reigns supreme……. with no one to question its authority…….. besides fundamentalists.  

    Then fundamentalists turn around and condemn most of us to Hell.

    Such is the Katechon.

    Where does Blake fit into all this?

    there were many more “things” Blake denied, for he encouraged everyone to doubt the reality of all truths of reason as well as those figures of authority who took advantage of the abstract non-entities philosophers created to enslave the vulgar

    This quote describes rather well BBL’s mission to OMF.

    He is here to save all you, innocents, from the Depredations of the Central Intelligence Agency…….. of which I am a prime lackey.

    And, for all we know, that could be God’s Truth.

    How could we know otherwise?

    I certainly don’t.

    My only instinct in this matter is to hang on, for dear life, to the very quaint and very outmoded notion that this world, against all appearances and against all common sense, might possibly be the best of all possible worlds!

    Even Blake, in the depths of his insanity, could have barely imagined such outrageousness.

    So there we are……. but I personally cannot imagine anywhere else to be.

    two and three are the only persons standing between chick 🐣 and the Eschaton.

    We can all, most sincerely, pray that they do not lose their footing.

    Yes, eventually, even the Katechon had to turn personal.

    Behold!



    (cont……….)


    Last edited by dan on Sun Aug 25, 2024 11:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by RealPan Sun Aug 25, 2024 10:42 am

    My final post before the next RealPan picks up the baton is nothing more an a Generative AI response: Yes, information can pass through a black hole, but physicists are still unsure how it gets out. This is because black holes break the time symmetry of physics, and quantum theory states that information cannot be destroyed. When a black hole evaporates, it destroys any information that's fallen into it, and emits Hawking radiation. However, physicists believe that information is actually saved and gets out of the black hole.
    Here are some ideas about how information can pass through a black hole:
    Entanglement islands
    In 2019, researchers found that some information about the interior of a black hole might be detectable on the surface of the event horizon in an entanglement island.
    Soft hair
    In 2016, Hawking, Perry, and Strominger proposed that information about the initial state of a black hole is stored in "soft hair" particles. Soft particles are particles that have no rest mass, like photons and gravitons, and can exist with arbitrarily low-energy.
    Loop quantum gravity
    In 2013, Jorge Pullin and Rodolfo Gambini applied loop quantum gravity to a black hole and found that gravity increases towards the core but reduces whatever enters another region of the universe. This suggests that black holes could serve as a portal, and that information doesn't disappear.
    Quantum gravity
    In 2023, researchers found that information could be carried out on Hawking radiation by adding quantum gravity into Hawking's original calculations.
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    Post by dan Sun Aug 25, 2024 11:09 am

    Yes, RealPan and chick 🐣…….. it’s like two ships passing in the night.

    I can only hope that the real two might know a little better.  

    And, yes, I am an accomplished cherry 🍒 picker…..

    Yea, though I walk through the valley……..

    My third encounter with two was in a darkened boat yard on the Potomac.  

    Should we be even slightly surprised that, for forty-two years, he has served as the chief……. enforcer…….. the one of last resort.

    The Katechon brooks no…….. second guessing…… no interlopers.

    Need we count our chickens?  

    Hey, if you’re gonna put all your eggs in one basket 🧺……..  

    And there is only for us to know………

    It’s just possible that we might not be natural…….. even when we try to act natural.  

    Even in the depths of the forest……… Nature might not be quite natural.

    Ok……. maybe you can take the forest out of the person…….. but can you take the person out of the forest?  
     
    Does the falling tree make a sound?  

    Could an unobservable universe exist?

    Yes, despite their every protest against concepts, poets may well be our best defense……… using every line of indirection.

    We can be and have been in much worse hands.

    And, most certainly, our better angels have outdone themselves in the almost complete erasure of their tracks.

    The only tracks remaining are the ones in our souls…….. the ones that the poets hide……. right in plain sight.  

    Even love has its reasons.  

    In fact, sports fans, love may well hold a virtual hegemon……. all is fair, especially when it comes to our better angels.  

    Our better angels will make darn sure that we know exactly what we need to know…… exactly when we need to know it……. and not a nanosecond sooner.  

    Second guessing your better angels……… there is a fool’s errand!  
    ……..


    So finally we come back around to the observer problem……..

    There are observers…… and then there are observers.  

    But where does the Observation buck stop 🛑?  

    Where is the only place it could possibly stop?  

    Where, but with the I Am……. where but with our best possible angles?

    On the other hand, everything that humans do experience is true, has to be true, and cannot possibly be untrue; no one, no philosopher, nor king or priest, has any right to reject or condemn anything humans experience as being false or wrong, for “every thing that lives is holy!” (Visions of the Daughters of Albion 8:10, E 51).
    See, I told…….. only the most subtle of indirections!

    Every time we stub our toe…….. it has to go all the way to the top?

    No wonder God gets exasperated!

    Ok, God invented toes……… no……..

    God invented Charlie D.

    And all the rest comes out in the wash…….. and maybe just a little bit backwards.

    And oh what a washing machine we have.



    (cont……..)
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Sun Aug 25, 2024 4:19 pm

    If the idealists are correct and consciousness is fundamental, not physics, done.

    The poets are in the lead here.

    The physicists and scientists will bow to the mystic poets.

    Egad, I sound like Deepak Chopra!

    Welcome to the Church of the Best Possible World!

    Buy the ticket, take the ride.

    The best possible Heaven has no god, duh.

    Hunter S. Thompson wrote:No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it up to forced consciousness expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten. —Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

    Dan bows to the Princess and RP. Tries to stay in their good graces.

    The poor fool doesn’t realize he needs nothing from anyone.

    He always has his own access.

    What a damned fool he is.

    One can stay a fool as long as they like.

    You won’t ever reason this out.
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Sun Aug 25, 2024 4:32 pm

    Blake is beyond analysis!

    You really can’t see him, can you?

    You can only see for yourself.

    You wanna know yourself, Blake, Bug Bunny, Chick, grab the third rail.

    Take hold of the golden thread.

    You have no idea what he is on about Dan.

    Apologies, it was pointless for me to bring up.

    I’m dealing with the smallest children here.

    They barely see.

    God can’t help us.

    We can only help ourselves here now.

    Kidding…kidding Wink



    Dan’s Blake article expands on my points.

    It’s quite good.

    Some good points…

    From The Book of Urizen.

    “Urizen holds as a matter of rational faith that the world is a fixed one of solid obstruction, and, lo and behold, that is what he claims to discover, when in fact what he does is literally create the entire fiction of a physical world of causal necessity to justify his theories—a delusory world of solid obstruction not at all grounded in observation, but erected in defiance of all the variety, change and movement he has observed and cannot tolerate.”

    Interesting commentary from Allen Ginsburg on this book here, https://allenginsberg.org/2024/02/s-f-17-blake-song-of-los-concludes/

    Like, science is profoundly confused. I was surprised by Wigner’s quote and the point that materialist’s position undermines itself as they are just describing the contents of consciousness. Science offers no truth, only convenient systems to make observations to make predictions. What is out there, is from in here. That’s the feeling of some key early philosophers and scientists.

    The power of scientific reasoning is like a spell I guess, a kind of magick. An empty kind of Alchemy disconnected from reality. We were warned about the risk of trapping ourselves. The Industrial revolution is a disaster, but I guess it moves the story along nicely. They are wizards conjuring worlds. That’s kinda cool actually. I mean that’s absolutely amazing. I love world building myself, I can’t get enough Factorio or Minecraft games. Every life is a self made world.

    The worlds we create cause horrible blowback though when we do it blindly not led by wisdom and love.

    We are world builders, for better or worse.

    You have to be careful when making wishes.
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    Post by dan Tue Aug 27, 2024 12:47 pm

    The internet is accelerating towards immaterialism.  

    The ETH is moving towards the IDH/UTH.  

    The MoAPS, however, remains off the table.  

    The stickiest wicket is Darwinian Naturalism.  

    I’m also not contesting Darwin.  

    The scientists are not fabricating the Darwinian appearances.

    The appearance that we are lost in space and time are an absolutely essential feature of the best possible world.  

    Yes, we had to be shoved out of our cozy little nest 🪺.  

    We had to experience our own wings.

    We had to be able to stand on our own.  

    This feat was essential to our becoming one with the One.

    But, when I was at Grace Fellowship…….. this was the step way too far!  

    No one could imagine that God would so deceive us.  

    Yes, constructing the appearance of the Big Bang ❗…… that seems downright perverse!  

    Could God be that sinister?

    Well, sports fans…….. all is fair…… in the game of cosmic Love…… in the game cosmic hide and seek!

    And then we will know ourselves for the first time.  

    Could we ever have imagined the stakes?

    Secular Humanism………existentialism……..?  That is for toddlers.  

    This is definitely not a game for sissies.  

    And, do tell, where did love go?  

    It went into our subconscious……. way in.

    Imagine……… when love becomes a dynamite vest.  

    Yes, we are looking in all the wrong 😑 places.  

    What is the right place?

    Wouldn’t we like to know?

    It is not buried in a philosophy book.  

    Is it on the other side……… of the Moon?  

    Is it in the heart of the guy on the airplane with the tattooed face?  

    I’m afraid that is part of the answer.  

    Is it buried under the coherence…….. very well shielded by the incoherence?

    What will ever coax us out of our shells?  

    We are lost………. who is going to find us?  

    The guy hanging on the lonely wooden tower?  

    How much love is in the Penrose number?  
    ………….


    And still we have no clue what an observer is.  

    Well, to exist is to relate.  

    If we relate to one thing…… we relate to everything.  

    Am I saying that Rover doesn’t relate…….. to the lamp post?  

    The Moon doesn’t relate to the Earth?

    Yes.

    We observe the Moon.

    So is it made of green cheese?

    Does Santa Clause live at the North Pole?



    (cont……….)
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Tue Aug 27, 2024 10:36 pm

    We are lost on purpose.

    If we remember it would spoil our game.

    You really do wanna be a spoiler don’t ya Dan.

    Love is definitely not found buried in any damn book.

    It’s found cleaning the vomit, pee, and/or poop off the floor.

    It’s found spending time with the dying.

    It’s found in new birth and every moment after.

    It’s found in the arm of that junkie over there you just stepped over.

    It’s found sharing a cup of coffee.

    It’s giving a fish to that bum.

    It’s not hard to find.

    It’s hard to let in.

    We are a stubborn obstinate people.

    Love is found in destruction too.

    I hope it doesn’t come to that, but everything ends, so enjoy while you can.

    Hell, chasing UFOs 🛸 may even lead to love, but I think they are just alarm ⏰ clocks.

    Time to wake and bake, or is it bake and wake.

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    Post by Mr. Janus Tue Aug 27, 2024 11:14 pm

    And Bake You will...

    You are a bulwark.

    Between a future of growth or stagnation.



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    Post by dan Wed Aug 28, 2024 8:29 am

    Mr J is a growth freak.  

    That is all we’ve known, throughout history.  

    And we’ve been experiencing both technological growth and population growth.

    It would take us less than a million years to expand throughout the galaxy.

    I went into science under the belief that science had unlimited potential.

    Putting these together……. we have blue sky dreams.

    Now, with the promise of artificial intelligence……… how could we miss?



    (cont………..)
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Wed Aug 28, 2024 11:30 am

    A new book on consciousness from probably the best idealist alive.

    He does eat Bernardo’s lunch I think.

    But I’m just a dumb bunny, what do I know.

    Gonna grab this one.

    And for the thick headed ones, I love ya muppets, this is very relevant to the UFO 🛸 phenomenon.

    David Bentley Hart has a more open mind than I think anyone who will ever post on OMF.

    And he’s smarter than all of us combined.

    A fun read I’m sure.

    All Things Are Full of Gods: The Mysteries of Mind and Life - https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0D3VMH8KV/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0

    Everything we say is about ourselves really, J is on fire.

    Burn 🔥 brother burn 🔥

    Remove the bulwark separating you from yourself.

    I charge $300/hr for counseling sessions, call me, I’m worth every cent.
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    Post by dan Wed Aug 28, 2024 2:47 pm

    BBL,

    Yes, DBH would be someone after your own mind…….. poetic.  

    His only saving grace is that he is a jesus freak.

    Yes, he is also an immaterialist……. as any poet must be.

    He has the temerity to criticize Darwin…… even.

    On issues of cosmology, he remains innocent.
    ………


    So, back to cosmology……..

    Might there not be more than one Creation?

    If there be two……. then there be an infinity.  

    Outside of the illusion of space and time…… how would the precincts be separated?  

    How many Eternities might there be?  
    …………


    But, speaking of poetry, we must not neglect Owen Barfield.  

    Barfield’s Saving the Appearances is certainly willing to take on all of science……. and in a christocentric manner.  

    There is also Teilhard, whose involvement with science is rather more complex.  
    ……………


    We also have Meinong and Tegmark, with their unlimited proliferation of objects and universes.  

    Once we invoke the necessity of observation, their proliferations collapse under their own weight.  

    So much for the Moon made of green cheese, and Santa Clause at the North Pole.

    And what about Nature without mosquitoes?  

    Nature is certainly prolific……. seemingly beyond reason.

    But we are hardly in a position to complain.

    Of course, most prolific of all are our imaginations…….. an essential aspect of our Being……. and of our sapient self awareness.

    And, yes, all the time, Naturalism-Materialism is falling further out of favor.

    It’s all aiming toward something anthropocentric and geocentric…… towards personalism and the small world.

    There is hardly need for an organized resistance to the small world.

    Certainly, however, Bernardo Kastrup is rising to a level of notoriety that he is liable to provoke a pushback.



    (cont……..)
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    Post by dan Thu Aug 29, 2024 8:41 am

    One thing you may notice, rather quickly, is that there are no immaterialists who consider the cosmological implications of their ontology.

    They consider neither the geocentric nor Anthropocentic implications.  

    At best, they’re liable to pick up on the traditional mythologies.

    Well, there is much talk of cosmic consciousness……. that pretty quickly verges into pantheism.

    It was Whitehead who spoke of Panentheism…… the world being contained in the mind of God.

    Panentheism goes back primarily to Plotinus.  

    The small world comes rather close to panentheism……. as long as we consider Creation to be the conspiracy of our better angels.

    It is inter-personal, transpersonal……. we could say…… hyper personal

    To see the contemporary possibilities laid out…… a good source is https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panentheism/#CriRes

    But all of these possibilities are rather weak on cosmology, and try to avoid any confrontation with the big world view of science.

    They end up being incoherent.

    Without a coherent basis, alternatives to the Big World are scarce.

    No one who already has a venue is going to have any inclination to embrace the mother of all paradigm shifts (MoAPS).

    It is a bridge too far for anyone with pretensions of normalcy.

    It is a fairly high barrier…….. a barrier of biblical proportions.

    On the other hand, for how long can the obvious be avoided?

    Over the years, I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m unlikely to be the only one with extra-scriptural knowledge, relative to the Endtimes.



    (cont………)


    Last edited by dan on Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:05 am

    There is a great yearning to release the wildness of the world from human exploitation.

    Awakening is a rewilding.

    Unlike Dan, Plotinus did not just pontificate, he was concerned with helping people find eudaemonia, true happiness beyond the physical.

    They can break your body, but that is not the only thing you are.

    The One is indescribable.

    It allows all else to be described and seen.

    It is literally the light.

    For poetic purposes, I do think we are in the mind of god.

    Plotinus saw the One as pure potential.

    Don’t forget to buy your new Trump trading cards!
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    Post by dan Thu Aug 29, 2024 11:51 am

    It is entirely possible that Plotinus was the first and last philosophical cosmologist…….. until the chick….. maybe.

    Everything else has been laden with scriptures…… of various sorts.

    He misses out on personalism…… which may just have been too obvious.



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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Thu Aug 29, 2024 1:44 pm

    Plotinus’ Neoplatonic metaphysics have some similarities to personalism.

    Plotinus believed, or knew, we are part of a cosmic order, we have a Daimon that is more of a metaphysical or spiritual guide that is specifically concerned with leading the individual toward the realization of their higher self and ultimately reuniting with the One, the ultimate principle of reality. It is less about personal dignity in a social sense and more about the soul’s journey toward transcendence and spiritual perfection.

    I have had contact with this force within us.

    It pushed me to find it or I flushed it out.

    But it has got to be the coolest fucking hack human beings have access to.

    Of course the materialist may call it inspiration and lack intimate contact with it. It can appear as any form inside or outside. It’s a trickster and wise guide. Depends on what is needed.

    Humility is the key.

    Lord it’s hard to be humble when you are perfect in every way.

    With your trusty always on light on your shoulder life is a bit more interesting.

    Life is damn hard, we can use all the help we can get.

    Some in history have recounted intimate contact with this very personal force.

    That was the world Plotinus lived in.

    If you have had similar experiences you read the ancestors differently than most others.

    The words are alive and filled with light.

    I could dig into them forever.

    It is an amazing human facility.

    I agree, we live in a Daimonic reality, see Patrick Harpur.

    Interestingly, Bernardo Kastrup is about to release a new personal book on his own daimonic journey, like Peter Kingsley did.

    That tends to get you laughed out of most rooms they seem to want to get into.

    They can’t help it really.

    One can become possessed.

    That scares muppets.



    I’ve been spending time with Plotinus.

    His work can’t be read.

    They are imaginative exercises.
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    Post by dan Sat Aug 31, 2024 3:37 am

    With a couple days on Plotinus and Zoroaster, I believe I have completed my studies.

    History is making a lot of sense……. Anthropocentric, as universally acknowledged.  

    Yes, the pairing of (prophetic) religion and science is the crux of history.

    The pairing of Xianity and (platonic-Pythagorean derived) science provides the crux of the creative tension that is the basis of our Narrative.

    ……. a Narrative which is nearly complete.

    …….. Anthropocentric and Geocentric that it is.  

    The Christocentricity is the crux of the crux.

    The MoAPS will be the pièce de resistance.

    chick will not be far from that action……. certainly not in spirit.  

    There you have it.  

    Any questions?

    That will be our close encounter with the Omega.

    Our journey back to the Source-Eternity will be relatively smooth…… on this side of limbo land.  

    Will three cooperate?

    Perhaps, but it may not be entirely necessary.

    The very friendly pooch, Milan, has passed from the scene.  
    ………..


    To check all this out, you may wish to check out the Grand Titration.
    …………..


    Forget Joseph Needham.

    Somehow, I managed to conflate Joseph’s theory of the relative retardation of Chinese science, compared with the scientific revolution in the West.

    I conflated his findings with the psychological research of Harry Harlow.  

    Why did the Scientific Revolution happen in the West, instead of the East?

    Joseph turns out to be a Marxist.  

    All I’m saying is that the Western God is much more cuddly than the Eastern counterpart.

    That  last statement is being politically correct.  

    The only God slightly cuddly anywhere is the xocentric one.  

    That makes us ready to go off and explore, and take risks…… just like Harlow’s monkeys.  

    Does this also help to explain Protestant capitalism and the work ethic?  

    That was a 1,2,3 punch that all the anti xians are still trying to figure out.  

    ……. all because of that ineffable cuddle factor.  

    Hey, it’s the sit down and have a beer 🍻 factor.  

    BBL, for all his other smarts still hasn’t figured this out.  

    No one has.  

    There’s gotta be a name for it……. the cosmic version of the Harlow effect.  
    …………


    Nowhere am I finding a reference to the cuddle thesis.

    The closest one might get is the imago dei thesis.  

    It is sometimes stated that the imago dei is judeo-christian.  

    I don’t think so.  

    Golly, Paul was being a clever PR agent when he dreamt that up.

    Yeah……. let’s do suffer the children to come unto our jguy!  

    Or, maybe, our better angels dreamt of it first.  

    Imagine that!  

    BBL cannot possibly imagine such nonsense……. he’s way above all that smarmy stuff.

    It certainly explains why there are buddha buddies, but no Buddha freaks.

    Were Charlie D or Albert E jesus freaks?

    Does that prove that chick 🐣 is wrong 😑?  

    It might prove something about the collective psyche……. the holy water 💧 in the drinking water.  

    And BBL is quite certain that the jesus freaks run the CIA.  

    I wish I could tell that to two…… but I think he sort of knows that.  

    three has cooperated more than she can possibly imagine…….
    Countin' flowers on the wall
    That don't bother me at all
    Playin' solitaire 'til dawn with a deck of 51
    Smokin' cigarettes and watchin' Captain Kangaroo
    Now don't tell me, I've nothin' to do




    (cont………)
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Sat Aug 31, 2024 10:25 am

    Dan wrote:With a couple days on Plotinus and Zoroaster, I believe I have completed my studies.

    Have you indeed!



    Again, what comes down to us from the Neoplatonists are spiritual exercises.

    You have to do the exercises!

    It’s not in a book.

    Let’s be clear, today’s Jesus freak cultists are NOT Christians.

    They never met Jesus.

    They are monsters.

    I’m sure there be a few warrior poets in the CIA, I hope anyway.

    You can’t really trust someone who doesn’t know themselves.

    I must confess I am the beneficiary of the American Empire.

    We are not appreciative enough of the very fact that we exist.

    The poet celebrates existence, communes with it, while everyone else is standing around stuffing their faces asking, what’s the big deal.
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    Post by dan Sun Sep 01, 2024 7:53 am

    BBL is right…….. chick 🐣 is wrong 😑……… on one level.

    But, on the level of the One……… chick is right.  

    On the level of the How…….. BBL is right.  

    Look…….. most of us have to live from one meal to the next……. from one pay period to the next.  

    On that level…….. ours is not to reason why…… ours is but to do and die.  

    I pretend to be able to live on the Why level.  

    It took me half my life to find out Why……. to find out that there is no Reason.

    Well, the closest I’ve come to a Reason is to ask why is there something.  

    The reason why is mainly because there can’t be nothing.

    The real question then is…….. why can’t there be Nothing?  

    It’s kinda like……… to be or not to be……

    Might I not have been?

    It depends on what level we ask that question.

    IOW, the answer is yes and no.  

    There is the level of the I Am.  

    I’ve never bothered to google the I Am.

    I’d better do that now……..
    ……….


    Ok, I’m back from Mt Google……

    And I have this to say about that……

    It has to do with the Prime mover.  

    And, guess what……. chick doesn’t believe in a prime mover…… certainly not in a temporal sense.  

    Like everything else…… time is an illusion.  

    And, so……. we have the chicken 🐔 and egg 🥚 problem.  

    To solve that problem is why I went into science.  

    The biologists have solved the problem.  

    The answer is Pratītyasamutpāda.  

    Yes……. the answer is older than the hills.  

    The answer comes from before time.  

    It also refers to the seminal word…… Logos Spermatikos.  

    And we can ask Jame Joyce……..

    Thunder perfect mind…… it is the Ten Thunders.  

    The first was discovered 22 years after the second (Wake) was started, in 1923……. only now are we catching up……. sorry for the 99 year delay…….. but, trust me……..
    For it is I who am acquaintance: and lack of acquaintance.
    It is I who am reticence: and frankness.
    I am shameless: I am ashamed.
    I am strong: and I am afraid.
    It is I who am war: and peace.
    as the world turns.

    And we do not speak on our own impulse.  

    Given that we can’t have nothing……. we must have everything…… all in due course.

    Our grief will turn to joy…… and finally to understanding…… for the first and last time…….. Alpha and Omega.  

    And what do we think of bitcoin?  
    ……………


    There are currencies commodities, and so forth.  

    We can give it away…… in God we trust.  

    How do we compare the two sides?  

    Our arrivals tend to be voluntary……. our departures….. not so much.  

    What do we make of nothingness?  

    With space and time being illusory, nothingness loses its power of intimidation.  

    NDEs………. folks who come back tend to feel obligated.  

    And, with those who do, however, there is a sense of relief……. things will work out for the better.

    It is, of course, possible that experience will simply end.

    That makes sense only in a strictly materialist world……. and the materialists are losing what little credibility they had……. in the mind-brain department.

    I don’t see ChatGPT changing many minds.

    We do have a strong sense of self identity over here.

    It’s hard to see how that could get any stronger.



    (cont………)
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    Post by dan Mon Sep 02, 2024 9:26 am

    A new thought has occurred……..

    Creation may be more holistic than I had imagined.    

    I have surmised that Creator and Creation are a conspiracy of our better angels.  

    And also that there is that of God in every one of us.

    I hadn’t really combined these two thoughts……..

    This is to say that most of our free will is being directed towards Creation……. in real time.  

    The bootstrap of Creation is omnipresent.  

    Isn’t Creation already a fait accompli?  

    Yes and no.  

    Isn’t Creation written in the stars ✨?

    Yes and no.  

    I’m just trying to figure out how it’s working……..

    Yes, Creation works from both ends……. Alpha = Omega.  

    But it also works from the middle……. as in….. be here, now.  

    We think or our free will as being channeled into the Present…….

    Do I want vanilla or chocolate ice cream?  

    That is mainly just a cover.  

    The real action is in our unconscious…….. where our better angels lurk….. along with everyone else.  

    Yes, the Kingdom is coming…… it’s just not coming on the other side of the Eschaton.  

    It is coming in our midst…….. kinda like the volcano 🌋 in the midst of the corn 🌽 field.  

    Pretty tricky, huh!

    I think that a significant portion of this emergence could be in Gaza and Kyiv, for instance.  

    Also on November fifth…… we might imagine.  

    And, sure, we could be playing a not insignificant part in that process.  

    Yes, Creation is……. sub specie aeternitatis……

    It’s just that Eternity might be a bit more clever than we had imagined.  

    Eternity is all about…….. being here, Now!

    This general idea emerged while I was struggling with polytheism…… last night.  

    Suppose everyone wanted to be God…… right now.  

    That would make Grand Central Station look like a play pen.

    But that’s kinda the point.  

    Our better angels just need a marker beacon.  

    chick 🐣 is attempting to be that marker beacon.

    And we’re all carrying a radio compass 🧭 in our pockets.

    All we have to figure out now is the…… open sesame…… then the gates will open.  

    That’s how Creation gets synchronized……. it just has to happen in real time……. at the last possible moment.  

    That’s how we make sure that there is only one Creation.

    That’s why there are no baby creations……. the Santa Fe Express pulls out……. right on time……….
    "These are the times that try men's souls. In the course of our nation's history, the people of Boston have rallied bravely whenever the rights of men have been threatened. Today, a new crisis has arisen. The Metropolitan Transit Authority, better known as the MTA, is attempting to levy a burdensome tax on the population, in the form of a subway fare increase. Citizens, hear me out! This could happen to you……..”
    Let me tell you the story
    Of a man named Charlie
    On a tragic and fateful day
    He put ten cents in his pocket,
    Kissed his wife and family
    Went to ride on the MTA

    Charlie handed in his dime
    At the Kendall Square Station
    And he changed for Jamaica Plain
    When he got there the conductor told him,
    "One more nickel."
    Charlie could not get off that train.

    Chorus:
                           Did he ever return,
                           No he never returned
                           And his fate is still unlearn'd
                           He may ride forever
                           'neath the streets of Boston
                           He's the man who never returned.

    Now all night long
    Charlie rides through the tunnels
    Saying, "What will become of me?
    How can I afford to see
    My sister in Chelsea
    Or my cousin in Roxbury?"

    Charlie's wife goes down
    To the Scollay Square station
    Every day at quarter past two
    And through the open window
    She hands Charlie a sandwich
    As the train comes rumblin' through.

    For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west…….
    It may be about time to start our engines.  

    When all through the house not a creature was stirring……

    Our docking with Eternity has been coordinated…… from day one.  

    And what happens with Disclosure?

    That might be redundant.  

    Things are more personal than that……. and time may well slow down.  

    There is a kind of hush all over the world……

    As the noise becomes predictable…… the canceling headphones kick in.



    (cont……….)


    Last edited by dan on Mon Sep 02, 2024 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Mon Sep 02, 2024 3:18 pm

    Alright then.

    Dan is inspired.

    Let’s focus on that.

    That is the essence of life!

    We can invite inspiration, beg for it.

    We set the table for the honored guest to come and fill us up with love.

    Your body is the table.

    It’s beautiful to see one be inspired.

    The ole divine fire intoxicates.

    We sat around the volcanic holes looking for Orphic inspiration.

    Now we sit around black holes muttering equations.

    Everyone wants to know and tell the future.

    Haha, silly muppets!

    We just can’t stop chasing your old vestigial tails.

    Imagination will come and carry one off if they aren’t careful.

    It is enough to be brushed by the wings of the Muse.

    One must be respectful.

    She can come like a raging storm or a little innocent bunny.

    I like it when she’s mad myself.

    I am often enraging her.

    She is really hot when she is angry and out of control.

    Our passions are the gods themselves.

    I think Goethe’s warning below a good one.

    I have let imagination take me away at times.

    I have lived with intensity and passion.

    I’m an intense bunny, what can I say.

    But oh how we play and laugh in our burrows.

    We laugh at silly humans.

    We marvel at how much they can’t see.

    Goethe wrote:We can never be too careful in our efforts to avoid drawing hasty conclusions from experiments or using them directly as proof to bear out some theory. For here at this pass, this transition from empirical evidence to judgment, cognition to application, all the inner enemies of man lie in wait: imagination, which sweeps him away on his wings before he knows his feet have left the ground; impatience; haste; self-satisfaction; rigidity; formalistic thought; prejudice; ease; frivolity; fickleness — this whole throng and its retinue. Here they lie in ambush and surprise not only the active observer but also the contemplative one who appears safe from all passion.”

    It ain’t over til it’s over.

    Straight on.
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    Post by dan Tue Sep 03, 2024 6:27 am

    Yesterday a morning came, a smile upon your face
    Caesar's palace, morning glory, silly human, silly human race
    On a sailing ship to nowhere, leaving any place
    If the summer changed to winter, yours is no, yours is no disgrace
    Yours is no disgrace
    Yours is no disgrace

    Here’s something that’s not easy for us to get our heads around……

    If there is one thing in our world that is unnatural…….. then there is nothing in our world that is natural.

    chick 🐣 is here to tell you that…… at the very least….. there are 10^10 things in our world that are not natural.    

    And how do I presume to know this?  

    I presume to know this because Douglas Hofstadter knows Gödel……. and I know Doug…….. just don’t tell him that I told you so!  

    Gödel’s theorem is likely to be the most unnatural thing in the world.  

    And, mind you, ChatGPT is about to prove this……. because ChatGPT will never be able to get its little head around Gödel……. no more than a parrot can get its head around Shakespeare.  

    Is ChatGPT natural?  

    You tell me!  

    When Anaximander invented the sundial, he was sticking his finger into naturalism.  

    Well, that was like the little Dutch boy sticking his finger in the dike…… except in reverse!  

    It looks like the chicks are coming home to roost.  

    If one thing is unnatural……….

    How do I know this?

    Because I’ve done ✅ my homework.  

    I did physics…….. Robert H was my advisor……. and I’m here to tell you that there is nothing more unnatural than the Quantum.

    John W knew this, but………. he even got his head around this, but…….
    Once upon a time there were three billy goats. They lived in the mountains in a little goat-village called Goatstown.………
    we all know the story……. it’s about the mean old Katechon.  

    And, yes, again……. we’re playing it in reverse……

    Well, actually, sports fans……. we’re playing it both ways…… at once…… which is a lot like Creation……. we know Alpha = Omega….. so we start in the middle……. kinda like the volcano 🌋 in the corn 🌽 field……  🛜…… you just have to find a spot…….

    And how far is our errand into the wilderness?  

    That’s right……. it’s just about half way…….

    Uh, oh…… did I forget to mention that I also know three?  

    Just don’t tell her that!  

    Along the way, there are sentries…….. centuries of sentries……. and even centurions……. 🤐.  
    ……..  


    I’m listening to Colored Television 📺 on Fresh Air.

    How do Senna and Gross speak to the small world?  

    Or, more to the point, where do they sit relative to the Katechon?  

    Understand that two and three associate with donny.  

    Here’s the question…….

    What do they know, and when did they know it?  

    And here is where quantity comes into the picture……..

    How many are they…… ?

    I mean…… it’s not like we haven’t had dress 👗 rehearsals…… since about……  the beginning of time…. and wouldn’t we like to know…..

    Yes, when exactly was that……. the beginning of Dreamtime?  

    I’ll tell you when………

    It was like with……… terry mace….. Dale ceresole and otto koch…….

    In other words…….. it was up close and personal……..

    …….. did I forget to mention drew allen and bonny smith?  

    ……….  shelly swift…….

    Inter racial is where it’s at……..

    …….. almost…….. inter dimensional is where it’s at.  

    And finally……… just as a reality check……. OM…….?

    It’s boots 🥾 on the ground, and wings 🪽 in the air.  

    She’ll be comin’ round the mountain 🏔️ when she comes……..



    (cont……….)


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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Tue Sep 03, 2024 1:14 pm

    All the figuring in the world won’t get you one step closer to this than you already are.
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    Post by dan Tue Sep 03, 2024 1:22 pm

    It all depends on what we mean by we…….. Kimosabe……

    Yes, you may be sitting on ground zero 0⃣…….. maybe even wittingly!

    But what about the rest of us…….. bunny boy?

    What did we know……. and when did we know it?




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