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UFOs, Extraterrestrial Contact, Conspiracy, Exopolitics, Geopolitics, Paranormal, Crypto-zoology, Ancient History, Cutting-Edge Science & Special Guests.

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» WRATH OF THE GODS/TITANS
Personalism 102 - Page 18 Icon_minitimeYesterday at 8:36 pm by U

» Why are we here?
Personalism 102 - Page 18 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 23, 2024 7:59 am by dan

» OMF STATE OF THE UNION
Personalism 102 - Page 18 Icon_minitimeFri Nov 22, 2024 10:22 pm by U

» Disclosure - For U by U
Personalism 102 - Page 18 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2024 10:08 pm by U

» The scariest character in all fiction
Personalism 102 - Page 18 Icon_minitimeThu Nov 21, 2024 6:47 pm by U

» Uanon's Majikal Misery Tour "it's all smiles on the magic school bus"
Personalism 102 - Page 18 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 10, 2024 9:36 pm by Mr. Janus

» What Music Are You Listening To ?
Personalism 102 - Page 18 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 09, 2024 12:34 am by U

» Livin Your Best Life
Personalism 102 - Page 18 Icon_minitimeWed Nov 06, 2024 8:55 am by Post Eschaton Punk

» Baudrillardian hauntology - what are some haunting truths to our reality?
Personalism 102 - Page 18 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2024 3:07 pm by dan

Where did all the Open Minds Forum members go?

Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:29 pm by Admin

With Open Minds Forum restored now for almost half a year at it's new location with forumotion.com we can now turn to look at reaching out to OMF's original members who have not yet returned home. OMF's original membership was over 6,000 members strong, prior to the proboards suspension, according to the rolls of the time. We can probably safely assume that some of those accounts were unidentified socks. If we were to assume a reasonable guess of maybe as many as 30% possible sock accounts then that would leave potentially somewhere between 4800 to 4900 possible real members to locate. That is still a substantial number of people.

Who were all these people? Some were average individuals with common interests in ufology, exopolitics, globalism, corruption, earthchanges, science and technology, and a variety of other interests. Some just enjoyed being part of a vibrant and unusually interesting community. Others were representative of various insider groups participating in observation and outreach projects, while still others were bonafide intelligence community personnel. All with stake in the hunt for truth in one fashion or another. Some in support of truth, and communication. Others seeking real disclosure and forms of proof. And others highly skeptical of anything or limited subjects. The smallest division of membership being wholly anti-disclosure oriented.

So where did these members vanish to? They had many options. There are almost innumerable other forums out there on the topics of UFO's or Exopolitics, the Unexplained, and Conspiracy Theory. Did they disappear into the world-wide network of forum inhabitants? Did some go find new homes on chatrooms or individual blogs? Did they participate in ufo conventions or other public events and gatherings? How about those who represented groups in special access? Or IC and military observers? Those with academic affiliations? Where did they all go and what would be the best way to reach out and extend an invitation to return?

And what constitutes a situation deserving of their time and participation? Is the archive enough? How exactly do people within the paradigm most desire to define a community? Is it amenities, humanity or simply population size for exposure? Most of the special guests have been emailed and have expressed that population size for exposure is what most motivates them. But not all. Long-time member Dan Smith has other priorities and values motivating his participation. Should this open opportunities for unattached junior guests who have experience and dialog to contribute to the world? How best to make use of OMF's time, experience and resources?

Many skeptics would like to see the historical guardian of discourse opportunity to just up and disappear; go into permanent stasis. They think that not everyone has a right to speak about their experiences and if there is no proof involved then there can philosophically be no value to discourse. I personally would respectfully disagree with them. Discourse has always been the prelude to meaningful relationships and meaningful mutual relationships have always been the prelude to exchanges of proof. In a contentious social environment with regards to communication vs disclosure how do we best re-establish a haven for those preludes? Is it only the "if we build it they will come" answer? Well considering OMF has been largely fully functional over the last four or five months this line of reasoning is not necessarily true. So what would be the best way re-establish this? Your suggestions are sought. Please comment.





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    Personalism 102

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    Post by dan Fri Dec 23, 2022 2:19 pm

    First topic message reminder :

    This is a topic reminder post……

    Personalism 102 is just a continuation Personalism 101…….. as we approach the limit of 40 pages.  

    The contention remains that the best possible world is necessarily based on the philosophy and ontology of Personalism.  

    The ontology is immaterialism, taken at it’s most fundamental level.

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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Sat Apr 22, 2023 11:44 am

    And at some point, matters will come to a head.

    The question everyone has after reading Ginsberg is: what is Moloch?

    My answer is: Moloch is exactly what the history books say he is. He is the god of child sacrifice, the fiery furnace into which you can toss your babies in exchange for victory in war.

    He always and everywhere offers the same deal: throw what you love most into the flames, and I can grant you power.

    As long as the offer’s open, it will be irresistible. So we need to close the offer. Only another god can kill Moloch. We have one on our side, but he needs our help. We should give it to him.

    Ginsberg’s poem famously begins “I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness”. I am luckier than Ginsberg. I got to see the best minds of my generation identify a problem and get to work.

    (Visions! omens! hallucinations! miracles! ecstasies! gone down the American river!

    Dreams! adorations! illuminations! religions! the whole boatload of sensitive bullshit!

    Breakthroughs! over the river! flips and crucifixions! gone down the flood! Highs! Epiphanies! Despairs! Ten years’ animal screams and suicides! Minds! New loves! Mad generation! down on the rocks of Time!

    Real holy laughter in the river! They saw it all! the wild eyes! the holy yells! They bade farewell! They jumped off the roof! to solitude! waving! carrying flowers! Down to the river! into the street!)

    I will not sacrifice what I love for power.

    I have thrown myself into the fire.

    It was what I loved most, but I did it because I wanted to truly know love and I saw I was the impediment.

    So who is here now?

    A babe in the woods.



    Einstein said,  "Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand."

    And…

    “The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom the emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand wrapped in awe, is as good as dead —his eyes are closed. The insight into the mystery of life, coupled though it be with fear, has also given rise to religion. To know what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their most primitive forms—this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.”

    The ultimate courageous act is not to choose religion or final conclusions.

    It is to stand in the midst of the mysterious nature of life and not name it, but accept it.

    If you don’t know yourself, truly you know nothing.

    To know thyself leads to self awareness and humility and accepting the limits of what you can know.
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    Post by dan Mon Apr 24, 2023 1:28 pm

    I continue working on Heidegger’s Being and Time……..

    In most respects, it has helped to clarify my own thinking.  

    Being in the world is necessarily temporal.  

    In being with us, as Dasein, it is being here or being there.  
    ………..


    I should say that beings refers almost exclusively to sapient beings.  

    It is a strong form of personalism, but not quite as strong as with the BPWH.  

    I’m not getting a clear and consistent picture, however, of the eschatology of Heidegger’s personalism.  

    I suppose that it must be wrapped up in the necessary temporal finitude of an anthropocentric Creation.  



    (cont…….)


    Last edited by dan on Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:49 pm; edited 3 times in total
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Mon Apr 24, 2023 4:31 pm

    "Heidegger follows Kant into the bar and asks for a pint of ale, to which the bartender replies, 'Sorry, last orders was fifteen minutes ago.' Leaving, he sighs and thinks to himself, 'I hate not Being on Time.'"

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    Post by dan Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:12 am

    I believe I’m getting a better grip on Between Being and Time (BBT).  

    The main problem is that it is being absolutist about a supreme being……. rendering Creation absolutely dependent upon the good will of the Creator.  

    With the BPWH, an optimal Creation is a logical necessity.  

    Every sapient creature is a co-Creator, partaking of this cosmic necessity.  

    This absolutism overrides the necessary relativism of personalism.  

    There is no original participation…….. so there is no final participation.

    I would like to be proved wrong in this assessment……. otherwise, the splendid isolation of the chick 🐣 continues.  

    The superficialities of personal freedom come at a high price.  

    Does this make me a Calvinist?  

    Perhaps, but not a TULIP…….. Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, and Perseverance of the saints……..

    Actually, I might be a ULIP…….

    Well, no, I believe that we are all Totally sanctified.  

    I’m not sure how Limited atonement might fit into the BPW……..
    Limited Atonement simply says that Jesus died on the cross to atone only for the elect. In other words, his sacrifice was not for the world entire but just enough to cover each and every one of the elect that God called to himself.
    This is simply, totally BS.  

    But it’s fine…… with a slight modification……. Everyone of us is elected to be one with the One.  

    Election is not the right word, then……… we are predestined to be one with the One.  

    Then we have to figure out how much of the above can be blamed on Heidegger.  

    I need to look at John Zizioulas’ Communion and Otherness: Personhood and the Church.  This is described as an ontology based on an eschatological Christology.



    (cont………)



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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Tue Apr 25, 2023 8:21 am

    I don’t worry about or ask things like this.

    Of course it’s for all of us.

    But I don’t think any atonement was needed and that our historical view of Jesus is distorted and incomplete. If one is following their guide, they don’t think about things like this.

    In the book, Zizioulas explores the concepts of communion and otherness as they relate to personhood and the nature of the Church. He argues that true personhood can only be understood and achieved through a balance between communion and otherness, emphasizing the importance of both unity and diversity.

    Zizioulas argues that communion, or being in a relationship with others, is central to the nature of the Church and human existence. He believes that individuals can only find their true identity and purpose through relationships with God and other people. However, he also recognizes the importance of otherness, which refers to the uniqueness and distinctiveness of each individual. Zizioulas posits that otherness is essential for maintaining the authenticity of relationships and for the flourishing of the Church as a diverse community.

    Throughout the book, Zizioulas delves into the Trinitarian theology, illustrating how the relationships among the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit exemplify the balance between communion and otherness. He also examines the implications of these concepts for ecclesiology, the Eucharist, and various aspects of Christian life.

    "Communion and Otherness: Personhood and the Church" is an exploration of the interplay between unity and diversity in the context of personhood and the Church. John Zizioulas argues that achieving a balance between communion and otherness is essential for understanding true personhood and fostering a healthy, vibrant Church community.

    I don’t recognize any Church.

    I do agree relationships are key to understanding who you are.

    No modern scholar really denies Jesus lived.

    They have proven Pontius Pilate lived.

    He was an apocalyptic prophet.

    He unveiled something.

    Most would say his predictions did not come true.

    I think they did in the liminal world.

    For 2000 years apocalypticists have awaited the new kingdom of god.

    What if the kingdom was a shift in our consciousness?

    Of course it was.

    John the Baptist was also preaching this before Jesus.

    The Essences also were waiting god.

    Pharisees also were apocalyptic.

    The Egyptian proclaimed the coming end.

    The Magi were waiting for Jesus.

    Another Jesus came 40 years after Jesus preaching the same.

    Something moved in human consciousness.

    Forces of evil would be destroyed.

    A new kingdom god ruled would come.

    Jesus was not unique, but distinctive in emphasizing rituals and sacrifices and personal purity didn’t matter.

    What mattered were your actions toward others in need.

    Did Jesus think he was the Messiah?

    It appears that, yes, he did.

    God would destroy the enemy and make him ruler.

    He called people to repent.
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    Post by aaron Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:43 am

    On the one hand smelly claims that no atonement is needed

    On the other hand he claims that the kingdom is a shift in consciousness

    If one is not a biblical literalist the atonement could be seen simply as a shift in one’s consciousness.

    Re. At-one-ment

    I would say atonement represents becoming one with the monad.

    I will admit to taking some liberties here

    Deeper understanding would be developed on what/who The Father represents in the Bible since atonement in the Bible refers to Jesus becoming one with the father

    I am supposing that “the father” is indeed analogous with the Monad

    I feel that a deeper understanding of what the monad is depends on the practice of a living gospel (good news) in action and not word alone.

    The gospel (good news) being that we are redeemed by what we do

    What we do is our communion with the spirit of creativity and action that permeates all life



    My Mormon roots are showing

    Did I leave out the part about grace?

    Does it sound like I’m advocating the position that we have to earn a place in the Kingdom?

    It’s not so much earning as it is learning

    Reminding ourselves what we already know

    That we are enough and that the kingdom is already here appearing as this

    As above so below
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Tue Apr 25, 2023 1:37 pm

    We have come from nothingness.

    What atonement is needed?

    The post-modern age is nihilistic.

    We cannot resurrect the old gods.

    Look the monster in the eye.

    Straight on.

    https://www.firstthings.com/article/2003/10/christ-and-nothing
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    Post by aaron Wed Apr 26, 2023 12:19 am

    All nihilism is self-destructive, it ends nowhere. Negativism is sound as method, but the highest truth is an affirmation.

    The old gods are part of all of this and a useful tool for developing a full view of this and cleansing the windows of perception between the inner and outer

    All exist within a closed timeline curve in which interdependent co-arising is fundamental to our being here doing our part co-participating with creation

    There is a quality to the suchness of phenomena and our experience of such that a totally nihilistic view corrupts

    To grasp the central fact of life, one is forced to face and propose a series of negations. Mere negation, however, is not fully receptive to the quality of existence, the suchness of the way things are, and our participation with what appears
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    Post by Mr. Janus Wed Apr 26, 2023 2:16 am

    What's your antidote to nihilism within our "closed timelike curve", dude?

    And which old gods do you find useful?
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    Post by aaron Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:54 am

    Which god walked the path of enlightenment through nihilism?

    The article chivo shared gives a pretty clear hint, and one I am apt to agree with.

    The article does leave out an important figure though that cannot be separated from the one ☝ it sheds light on

    Goethe wrote:Alles Vergängliche
    Ist nur ein Gleichnis; Das Unzulängliche,
    Hier wird's Ereignis; Das Unbeschreibliche,
    Hier ist's getan;
    Das Ewig-Weibliche
    Zieht uns hinan.

    In other words, the divine feminine draws us on high and leads us upward and onward

    That’s right Princess, eat your heart out!
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    Post by dan Wed Apr 26, 2023 7:31 am

    Nihilism within our closed time-like curve…………

    Yes, as the jguy said……. It’s my way or the highway!  

    Is the small world too small for us……… too small for Elon Musk, for instance?  

    The smallness of the world forces us to face the abyss…… to face Sunyata.  

    Love is the only antidote.  

    Love is the only thing that cannot be contained.  

    Without death, life would have no meaning.  

    With the Eschaton, history would have no meaning.  

    Is the Princess going to have to eat her heart out?  

    chick 🐣 is doubtful.  

    With the advent of BB&T, we may be seeing a movement within academia toward paying attention to ontology.  

    Heidegger was among the first to point out that existence can only be grasped with a context.



    (cont……..)


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    Post by aaron Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:01 am

    Eat your heart out….

    or

    Our expedition is our destination

    Are we eating our hearts out as we speak?

    Mmm, tastes like chicken 🍗
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    Post by dan Wed Apr 26, 2023 9:57 am

    Our expedition is our destination……?  

    Well, our immediate goal is to touch base with the One.

    We have a rendezvous with the Truth……. to experience being one with the One.
    ………….


    Back to Heidegger……. and the contextuality of existence.

    This contextuality is the thesis of Relationalism……. to be is to relate.



    (cont………)
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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Wed Apr 26, 2023 10:18 am

    We are always connected to everything.

    We have but to become aware of it, but it’s always true.

    The old gods are gone.

    We are here.

    It is not for us to resurrect anything, but to fully inhabit our being.

    We are in a death match with Moloch.

    Dasein, is deeply embedded within its particular historical, cultural, and social context.

    Heidegger emphasizes that human beings are fundamentally relational, meaning that they exist in relation to others, the world, and their own selves. This relationality is what gives rise to the contextuality of existence. Human beings are not isolated entities, but rather, they are immersed in a web of relationships, roles, and responsibilities that shape their identity, understanding, and experience of the world.

    This contextuality is crucial to understanding Heidegger's concept of Dasein. He argues that Dasein is always a "being-in-the-world," meaning that it is inseparable from its environment, and its existence is fundamentally shaped by its surrounding context. Dasein is not a neutral or abstract entity; instead, it is always situated within a particular world, with specific values, practices, and traditions.

    Heidegger also emphasizes the importance of history and temporality in shaping human existence. Dasein is "thrown" into a historical and cultural context, inheriting a set of beliefs, practices, and traditions that have been passed down through generations. This historical context shapes Dasein's understanding of itself and its place in the world, and it also provides the basis for its future possibilities.

    This contextuality underscores the importance of understanding the particularities of one's own existence in order to grasp the meaning and significance of Being.

    Generally agree here, but one has to be careful not to abdicate responsibility for your actions.

    Our context is Christ, not Zeus.

    The Enlightenment.

    Hyper connection through technology.

    The Greeks.

    Knowing thyself is understanding the context you appeared and exist in.

    We don’t disconnect, we hyper connect.

    You don’t divorce your wife or husband or leave your family or quit your job or run into the hills.

    You explore the connections you have and dive deeply into your life.

    Your life is deeply meaningful.

    We have a meaning crisis in our world.

    Heidegger points to fostering greater empathy for the world you are part of by understanding the contextuality you exist in.

    Heidegger's focus on the individual's unique historical, cultural, and social context may lead to a kind of solipsism or excessive individualism. This could potentially undermine the importance of shared values and common human experiences.

    Heidegger is hard to understand, is he coherent?

    There is the Nazi problem relating to his ideas and actions.

    Hey, no one’s perfect.
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    Post by dan Wed Apr 26, 2023 12:52 pm

    Poor chivo is missing the larger point……..

    BB&T is pointing out that Heidegger is necessarily an eschatologist.

    History makes no sense outside of an eschatological context.  

    History is just one damned thing after another, unless it can be circumscribed…….. as with an Alpha and Omega, for instance.  

    Yes, Heidegger subscribed to the Third Reich…….. he was a Millenarian…… that was as close as he could get to a Telos.  

    The Telos of the small world is the MoAPS.  

    The only question is whether the Telos will necessarily entail phenomenology such the opening of the portals.  

    Will the opening of the portals come before or after the MoAPS?  

    In the scheme of the BPW, it would come before…….. by way of lessening the shock of it.  

    The BB&T book augurs well for an early MoAPS.  

    Scientific materialism is just the walking dead……. it is in a state of zombie hood.  

    Elon Musk plus the Chatbot will not be able to revive Scientism…… it is too little, too late.  

    It is all about ontology, now.  

    The high water mark of Materialism was 1950……. it has been running on fumes for far too long.  

    I suggest that we take a look at……. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-ontology/

    In particular, see……. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-ontology/#FormThouStruRealL4MeetO3 ……..
    To take the simplest example, the form of our subject-predicate thoughts corresponds perfectly to the structure of object-property facts. If there is an explanation of this correspondence to be given it seems it could go in one of three ways: either the form of thought explains the structure of reality (a form of idealism), or the other way round (a form of realism), or maybe there is a common explanation of why there is a correspondence between them, for example on a form of theism where God guarantees a match.

    It seems that chick 🐣 is getting behind the curve…….

    Show me where the troops are marching, so that I may get out in front of them……..!

    Or are they just waiting for the chick 🐣 to keel over?

    They might not have much longer to wait.

    But, yes, sports fans, the phenomenology problem is growing apace.



    (cont……..)


    Last edited by dan on Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by aaron Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:49 pm

    Mr. Janus wrote:What's your antidote to nihilism within our "closed timelike curve", dude?

    And which old gods do you find useful?

    Nietzsche offers another alternative to facing nihilism

    Embracing ones will to power in order to overcome the “last man”

    The last man is said to be a mediocre figure who values comfort and security over growth and self overcoming



    The death match with Moloch is a death match between Prometheus/Lucifer and Moloch in a sense

    Lots of Heidegger today

    Heidegger was deeply influenced by Nietzsche and considered him to be one of the most significant philosophers of the modern era.

    Heidegger's own work can be seen as an attempt to build upon and respond to some of the challenges that Nietzsche's philosophy posed, especially in regard to the question of the nature and meaning of human existence.

    Heidegger was primarily focused on metaphysics and ontology while Nietzsche is more concerned with a critique of values, the nature of truth, and the implications of the “death of god”



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    Post by dan Wed Apr 26, 2023 1:59 pm

    The God of the BPWH is definitely the postmodern God.  

    It is the synergy of all of us.  

    But is it personal?  

    That was the job of the jguy…….. showing that the Telos was just one of us, guys and gals…… 🍻.  

    The Eucharist renders the Eschaton as incarnate…….. placing it right in the midst of history……… Alpha = Omega.  

    This is what BB&T is all about.  

    The SoT is just the closer.  

    It’s all over, but the shouting………
    Therefore we have a mind whose thoughts have a form which mirrors the structure of the facts that make up the world.

    This kind of an explanation is a nice try, and plausible, but it is rather speculative. That our minds really developed this way in light of those pressures is a question that is not easy to answer from the armchair. Maybe the facts do have a different structure, but our forms are close enough for practical purposes, i.e. for survival and flourishing. And maybe the correspondence does obtain, but not for this largely evolutionary reason, but for a different, more direct and more philosophical or metaphysical reason.
    We don’t say!  
    To explain the connection differently one could endorse the opposite order of explanatory priority, and argue that the form of thought explains the structure of the world. This would most likely lead to an idealist position of sorts. It would hold that the general features of our minds explain some of the most general features of reality. The most famous way to do something like this is Kant’s in the Critique of Pure Reason (Kant 1781/7). We won’t be able to discuss it here in any detail. This strategy for explaining the similarity has the problem of explaining how there can be a world that exists independently of us, and will continue to exist after we have died, but nonetheless the structure of this world is explained by the forms of our thoughts. Maybe this route could only be taken if one denies that the world exists independently of us, or maybe one could make this tension go away. In addition one would have to say how the form of thought explains the structure of reality.

    It only gets better……..!  

    We’d better hang on to our hats 🧢, sports fans.  

    Another way in which there might be nothing to explain is connected to philosophical debates about truth. If a correspondence theory of truth is correct, and if thus for a sentence to be true it has to correspond to the world in a way that mirrors the structure and matches parts of the sentence properly with parts of the world, then the form of a true sentence would have to be mirrored in the world. But if, on the other extreme, a coherence theory of truth is correct then the truth of a sentence does not require a structural correspondence to the world, but merely a coherence with other sentences. For more on all aspects of truth see Künne 2003.
    Let’s hear it for the CohTT!



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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Wed Apr 26, 2023 3:52 pm

    There is not just one theory of truth.

    It depends on the context.

    Laughter brings you closer to love.

    Why did the eschatologist break up with their partner?

    They couldn't agree on the end times!

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    Post by GSB Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:16 pm

    Who is the Hummingbird?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11996773/Six-whistleblowers-spill-UFO-secrets-congress.html


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    Post by dan Wed Apr 26, 2023 6:24 pm

    Gary,

    Re: Hummingbird……..

    I had best defer to google.
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    Post by dan Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:19 pm

    Although this is written mainly in ecclesiastic terms, it gives a rather good understanding of the necessary eschatology of ontology……. https://resourcesforchristiantheology.org/towards-an-eschatological-ontology/ .

    Since the ancients, we have put our trust in the protological dimension of Being.  This is historicism.  

    It is also giving total credence to the unidirectionality of time.  

    All signs of teleology are discounted.  

    In other words, life is an accident in a meaningless universe.  

    Only mystics and poets are allowed to push against those boundaries.  

    This is the Katechon.

    This is the foundation of scientism.  

    Elon Musk and the JWST are keeping scientism afloat, and the Katechon intact.  
    ………..



    Let’s take the ontology of stars…….

    Yes, we have very impressive theories to explain the existence of stars, starting with the Big Bang.  

    By similar theorizing, we can also explain our own existence.  

    It is, however, a little more difficult to explain the Anthropic Principle…… we have to hypothesize a nearly infinite array of hypothetical universes to avoid the problem of design/teleology.  

    The alternative is to embrace teleology…….. in which case we simply dream up the universe……. starting with the primordial observer/dreamer.  

    Why such an elaborate dream?  

    Well, ok, we like to impress ourselves……. we like to keep ourselves busy with technology and science.  

    How would such a fancy dream be possible?

    It would be possible, if we share the same dreamscape.  

    And, in point of fact, we are able share the same cognitive space, with an infinitely dimensional cognition.  

    Extending this cognitive space to include a common or collective sensory space is not a very big stretch.  

    If we can share a cognitorium, why not be able share our qualitative sensorium…….. we just all get on the same dream wavelength.  

    That we are able to adjust the furniture 🪑 of this dreamscape should not be a big deal.  

    Yes, we are positing a world of mind over matter.  

    Is this illegal?  Is it illogical?  

    Well, it does explain the mind/body problem.  

    The teleology/eschatology of the world comes along as a freebie.  

    The ontology and eschatology are pratītyasamutpāda.  



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    Post by dan Sat Apr 29, 2023 3:41 pm

    That ontology is necessarily eschatological is merely to say that ontology is relational.

    Perhaps we should start from another direction…….

    Let’s consider the problem of the unobservable universe…….

    On what basis could such a universe be said to exist?  

    This problem may be related to the the quantum and its spooky action at a distance……. talk about the necessary relationality of existence.  

    Since I don’t believe in the objectivity of physics, I had best tread carefully, here.  

    Suppose that all observers in a universe die off, does the universe still count as having been observed?  

    I’m inclined to say no, unless we can appeal to a collective cosmic memory of the observers.  

    The initial and final observer is the I Am.  

    Am I claiming that the I Am is omniscient……

    There once was a man who said "God
    Must think it exceedingly odd
    If he finds that this tree
    Continues to be
    When there's no one about in the Quad."

    Dear Sir,
                 Your astonishment's odd.
    I am always about in the Quad.
    And that's why the tree
    Will continue to be
    Since observed by
                             Yours faithfully,
                                                     God
    This limerick suggests that God doesn’t need people.  

    The essence of personalism, however, is that we are the co-Creators/co-Observers.  

    The BPW is contained within the mind and memory of the Source…….. of whom we all partake.  

    I am tempted to say that it is we who don’t need God.  

    Creation is a social enterprise, sub specie aeternitatis.  

    It is a bootstrap operation…… a quantum loop, if you will.  

    With a strong dose of relationalism, we’re good to go.  

    Personalism and relationalism are kissing cousins.

    To be is to relate.  

    If this is what the Eucharist is trying to tell us, then more power to it.

    This is the crux of the liturgy…… the crux of ontology……. this is what the metaphysically minded theologians are pointing out.  

    Yes, it’s a pretty tall order for a bitty piece of bread 🍞.  

    Maybe the jguy wasn’t quite as dumb as he looked……. maybe there’s hope for the rest of us.



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    Post by dan Sun Apr 30, 2023 9:12 am

    A relational world is necessarily finite in extent.  

    It is necessarily a personal world.  

    Love is the relation par excellence.  

    Can love be spread too thin?

    Is love spread too thin already in our world?

    One way to avoid the spread is to share in the common love of a particular person, generally referred to as God.  

    Ok, but are we the children of God, or are we God’s spawn……. as in panspermia and the like.  

    Many folks take it to heart that we are the children of god, and, therefore, that the the son of god is the only son.  

    What about the Islamists?  

    Did they draw the short straw in the theism department?

    Defensively, they tend to be much more intolerant of other religions.  

    Personalism gets rather short shrift in Islam……. it is much more deistic than theistic.  

    Sufism is rather more personal than Islam……. much more emphasis is placed upon the individual participation in small groups.  

    In Islam proper, the emphasis is on outward loyalty through literal obedience……. this is how the love of Allah is defined.  

    If one religion is more personal than the others, why were the others given so much leeway…….. even encouragement, we could say?  

    Why was Darwinism provided with such a great plethora of fossils, and all the other evidence supporting a materialist interpretation?

    My inclination is to blame it all on the Katechon.  

    The situation of the Truth being hidden from us is to extend Aeon of normal history……. of modernism……. of confusion.



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    Post by Post Eschaton Punk Sun Apr 30, 2023 12:12 pm

    That’s really funny.

    I was going to write a post on partaking of the world.

    Yours is pretty good.

    All is transient.

    Does it matter?

    Do I bother?
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    Post by dan Sun Apr 30, 2023 4:30 pm

    Chivo,

    I gather that you are not convinced that this is a personal world.  

    There is good reason to believe that we are not ready to learn otherwise……. but that we will be, in the fullness of time.  

    There are plenty of reasons to be hopeful, if one so chooses.  

    Does it matter?  

    Sure, whether or not we focus on ourselves or on the world.  



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