The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

First topic message reminder :

Hi ScarZ,

Thank you for posting this information. Does any of David Flynn's material give any idea to the time-frames for the early events or historical figures that his research indicated?

I know, I know, I know.  This isn't easy.

But I have to go there to figure this out.  There is something seriously wrong with the millennium come and "the little season" at it's end.  And I'm siding that it's not the prophecy that's wrong, but rather our interpretation.

How could a world be so fraught with sin when it is inhabited by millions of resurrected people in new bodies preforming myriad paranormal feats, while overseen by a Living God?

It doesn't compute.

There are NT scriptures which make it clear that Satan was defeated at the cross.  And we were given all power over him.  What does this mean?

This is the sort of questions I'm asking.

What would this world have looked like today if there had never been a Jesus?  That's a nebulous question if one really stops to think about it.



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Jake Reason wrote:

There are NT scriptures which make it clear that Satan was defeated at the cross.  And we were given all power over him.  What does this mean?


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Yes the devil was defeated at the cross. We do have power over him. It's all  about no more death. He has no power of death over any of us "IF" we accept the free gift of salvation.Through the resurrection of Jesus Christ we will also one day defeat death as we are resurrected........"The Devil has no power over us." 


Hebrews 2:14........"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;"

When I get some free time Jake I will lay out some of my thoughts and questions about "The Little Season". I understand just as yourself that the set view of most is missing something.

Very good read from Peter Goodgame. As the seconds,minutes,hours,days,and years continue to move forward I can't help but wonder how much further we will fall before we hit bottom. 
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The Zombie Apocalypse and the Decline of Love


By Peter Goodgame


http://www.redmoonrising.com/zombieapocalypse.htm


Did you know that the New Testament speaks about the rise of flesh-eating zombies in the end times?  Yes, this is true! The revelation came to me while I was at work on Friday, the same day that Brad Pitt's new movie World War Z was released (June 21).  While working I was also listening to the radio and to all of the ads that would play every fifteen minutes or so. One particular advertisement that I kept hearing on KSSK was describing all of the commodities that would be sold at an upcoming "Mega Sale" at the Blaisdell Center in Honolulu. As I began thinking of the horde of single-minded consumers that would be streaming into the arena on the weekend I connected this image with the images that I had seen promoting World War Z.  I began to think about this and to compare modern-day consumers with zombies.  Aren't zombies the ultimate consumer?  The only difference is that modern-day shoppers go after all of the products offered by the global marketplace, whereas zombies are really only interested in one product: human flesh!


There is something going on in popular culture today that is reflecting the fears of society at large. Sociologists have made manyattempts to offer explanations, but I like the one given by economist Tomas Sedlacek in his 2011 book, Economics of Good and Evil. Sedlacek speaks of two extremes to the human psyche: one part of us that is animalistic and driven by instinct, and the other that is coldly rational and driven by calculation. This helps to explain why popular media seems to focus on two forms of apocalyptic destruction for the human race. One comes through a change that takes place biologically, reducing humans to the animalistic hunger-driven flesh-eaters of the zombie apocalypse (Zombieland, World War Z), while the other comes at the hands of the machines that we have built that turn against us (The Terminator, The Matrix). Sedlacek writes, “In the first scenario animals destroy us, in the second it is the robots that we ourselves have crafted. In both cases we fight the same thing: the apathy with which they tear us (humans) to bits.”


Sedlacek argues that at the heart of the matter what humanity collectively fears is our loss of sympathy for each other.  He writes, “If we lose it, we will become either animals or machines. That depends on which extreme we tend toward, whether the animal in us or the mechanical-rational. We have ontological fear of both.”


This societal fear of the loss of human sympathy is growing rapidly and cannot be denied.  The rich and powerful at the top of the global hierarchy respond to this fear with a call for more law and order and more security and protection from the masses (often using advanced technology), while those outside the power structure are becoming stirred up and unified into massive hordes that are taking over city squares and marching on capitol buildings.  Truly it is just as Jesus predicted it would be―that in the end times “the love of many shall wax cold” (Matt. 24:12).
Ultimately, following along with Sedlacek’s logic, we see that zombies are simply human beings who have lost all sense of compassion for their fellow man.  Human beings are three-part beings made up of body, soul, and spirit. Zombies, on the other hand, are bodies without a spirit whose soul has been reduced to fulfilling one single lust of the flesh, that of hunger.  Zombies have no love. They serve only themselves and fulfill their purpose by seeking human victims that they might devour.  In his letter to the Galatians the Apostle Paul also connects love, or the lack of it, with the potential for human-beings to descend into zombie-like behavior:

For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.  (Galatians 5:13-15)


Paul continues and teaches that those who “bite and devour” each other are simply those human beings who have given themselves over to the selfish lusts of the flesh.  All flesh and no Spirit makes you a walking zombie. Instead of serving, you are at war with your fellow man―biting, devouring and consuming each other!  The works that follow such people are listed by Paul as, “Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like.”
Human beings have been infected with a virus that is at war with the very Spirit that was breathed into mankind by God Himself in Genesis 2:7.  This virus was released when Adam and Eve sinned by eating the forbidden fruit, but the antidote to this virus, purchased for us by Jesus Christ, was then released on Pentecost in Acts 2:4.  Now when human beings receive the Holy Spirit our own hearts become a battlefield as the Spirit of God immediately goes to war against the residue of this unholy virus.  Paul explains,


For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would… But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. (Galatians 5:17, 22-25)


The zombies who are all flesh and no Spirit are in a constant state of competition with each other. The same goes for Christians who refuse to walk in the Spirit and thereby crucify their own flesh that is persistently rising up.  The Apostle James refers to such Christians in his brief letter, speaking of the lusts of the flesh that cause us to turn against each other:


From whence come wars and fightings among you?  Come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, the Spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.  [James 4-8]


James brings up the stark reality that the entire world is an enemy of God.  It is a world system ruled by Satan known as Babylon the Great that is currently under the authority of a woman named “The Mother of Prostitutes and Abominations of the Earth.”  She can also be identified as the great end-times Zombie Queen of Babylon in the sense that she is definitely all flesh and no Spirit, and completely given over to her own selfish lusts.  If we read her obituary closely we can find that what started in the Garden of Eden comes full circle and is finally judged when she falls:


And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat. (Genesis 3:6)


And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were liparos [good for food] and lampros [pleasant to the eyes] are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. (Revelation 18:14)


As was explained in the presentation in January at Future Congress 2, in the end times the forbidden fruit from the Garden of Eden becomes transformed into the great mass of commodities consumed by Babylon, whereas the tempting serpent’s role becomes taken up by the great merchants of the earth. With this insight we find that global capitalism has emerged victorious throughout the world today as Babylon's great Maximum Temptation Delivery System of the end times.


The Queen of Babylon is shown in Revelation 18 as the world’s greatest consumer of worldly goods, and the great merchants of the earth and the global shipping industry will both mourn when she falls, “for no man buyeth their merchandise anymore.” If we look at the very last commodity on the long list of commodities consumed by this woman we find “bodies and souls of men.”  She is indeed a Zombie Queen, for she consumes, in a sense, the very bodies and souls of men.  This is confirmed literally in Revelation 17:6 where it says that she was seen “drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.”  She indeed “bites and devours” mankind and becomes drunk on the blood of the righteous.


The Zombie Queen of Babylon rules the world today, and those who rise up to the highest reaches of her hierarchical system of power are the rich and powerful who are least likely to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.  They are the cream of the crop of those who have wholeheartedly given themselves over to the pursuit of the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life. Like zombies who are driven solely by hunger, Paul describes these people as having made their bellies their god:


For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. (Philippians 3:17-20, ESV)


Those with minds set on earthly things can often rise to positions of power and influence within the world's system. Yet as James writes, to be a friend of the world is to be an enemy of God. The destiny that is reserved for the Queen of Babylon is unique, however, because she ends up as an enemy of both God and the Antichrist in the end times.  Scripture is clear that there will be a palace coup in Babylon when the Queen is deposed and the Antichrist (referred to as the King of Babylon in Isaiah 14) is installed in her place. Revelation describes how a group of powerful world leaders will be used by God to turn against her and hand their power over to the Beast:


And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. (Revelation 17:16-17)


The final end of Babylon's Zombie Queen will be one of gruesome poetic justice when she herself is attacked by "zombies" and her own flesh is eaten by the Antichrist’s henchmen.


The Disappearance of Love and the Preparation of the End-Times Zombie Horde


There are two great kingdoms battling it out for possession of the earth today: the Kingdom of Light announced by Jesus Christ two thousand years ago, and the Kingdom of Darkness ruled over by Satan and the Mother of Harlots described in Revelation.  The laws of God's Kingdom teach that love of God and love of human beings (even our enemies) must come first, and that we are to love not the world, but commit ourselves to generosity and serving one another in humility ("it is more blessed to give than to receive"). On the other hand, the Kingdom of Darkness teaches us to love and serveourselves first, to accumulate wealth and possessions, to freely indulge the lusts of the flesh, and to love the world and all that it has to offer. Just as Christ is preparing His Bride for the consummation of this present age and the coming of the Kingdom of God in its fullness, so is the Mother of Harlots preparing for her own final apocalyptic expression of wickedness and rebellion. Paul predicts this in the following passage:


This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. (2 Timothy 3:1-5)


In Galatians 5:14-15 the Apostle Paul identifies the commandment of  "love thy neighbor" as a deterrent to the pervasive zombie virus that leads human beings to bite, devour, and consume one another.  This basic ethic can be found at the heart of all of the major world religions.  The problem for society today is that we have divorced "religious beliefs" from the way that we live our lives.  This is true in so-called "Christian" nations as well as in Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, and Hindu nations.  Now virtually everywhere around the world, regardless of what people may believe spiritually, we are all being conformed into a certain way of living out our lives actually. 


The way of life that has taken over and reigns supreme throughout the world today is the way of life that is dictated by the global marketplace.  Everywhere some form of Capitalism reigns supreme (although with various levels of government regulation and different policies of taxation and re-distribution). Fundamentally, Capitalism is a way of life based on competition, consumerism and covetousness.  It is a way of life in which everything has been turned into a marketable commodity, including labor, culture, sex, and even land and the earth itself.  It is a way of life in whichmoney has become necessary for just about everything, and almost all of our human relationships are mediated by cash transactions or self-serving voluntary exchanges.  In fact, what many promoters of Capitalism have referred to as the "magic of the marketplace" is at the same time the primary reason why we have seen the decline of love throughout the world over the last few hundred years at the same time that we have witnessed the explosive rise in commerce.


For thy merchants were the great men of the earth; 
for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. (Rev 18:23)



So what is the "magic of the marketplace" and how does it work?  Well, the marketplace is promoted with the illusion of "freedom."  No one puts a gun to your head and forces you to go out and buy or sell, and it is all passed off to us as completely "voluntary."  Then, when you have your commodity ready to be exchanged nobody forces you into making a deal.  All you have to do is find someone willing to accept what you have to offer in exchange for whatever they have, whether it's labor, a service, a commodity, or money that is exchanged.  Once fair value has been established and the exchange is made then both sides walk away happy.  They each end up in a better position than they were before the transaction, with their needs satisfied, or else they would not have both agreed to the transaction in the first place! Brilliant, isn't it?  In the marketplace two selfish people can come together and serve each others need, with both ending up better than they were before the deal was done! If this is how Capitalism works, then why not encourage the proliferation of these self-serving, voluntary exchanges?  Eventually, the whole world will be a much better place, and everyone will have all the things they need, right?



And he said unto them, Take heed, and keep yourselves from all covetousness: 
for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth. (Luke 12:15)



There's only one problem in this equation: it is the fact that "love thy neighbor" becomes completely unnecessary for markets and for Capitalism itself to flourish, and the temptation easily arises to dismiss it as an out-dated and superstitious ethic.  And that is exactly what has occurred. Not only have many of the most celebrated ideological promoters of Capitalism mocked and dismissed "love they neighbor," but so have untold billions of human beings in today's global, market-driven, individualistic, competitive society. Commerce goes up, selfishness goes up, competition goes up... while love goes down.



For Christians looking for the return of Jesus Christ this should not be a surprise, because Revelation predicts that commerce will dominate right to the end with its depiction of Babylon the Great with her commodities and merchants, and its warning of the Mark of the Beast connected directly to "buying and selling." In parallel with the end-times global commercial takeover Paul predicted the rise of selfishness ("There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money..." 2 Timothy 3:1-2, NIV), while Jesus predicted the decline of love itself: "And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold." (Matthew 24:11-12, ESV)



Christianity and all of the other great religions of the world all claim to be more than just "belief systems" dealing only with hypothetical questions about eternity, because each of them teaches rules, values, and principles that are supposed to guide their adherents in everyday life.  In the same way Capitalism teaches rules, values, and principles that guide its billions of faithful adherents in everyday life.  However, Capitalism stands starkly apart from all of these world religions by the fact that it teaches that the ethic of "love they neighbor" is over-rated and unnecessary or, in some cases, actually bad for the prosperity of the individual and of society at large.  Isn't that truly stunning and noteworthy?  Who in their right mind would actually teach that "love thy neighbor" is an ethic detrimental to society, even while Jesus Christ Himself emphasized that it was the most important rule governing our human relationships? 



Well, we must recall that Jesus predicted that the appearance of false prophets would precede the decline of love, and it is the promoters of Capitalism who have helped to fulfill this prophecy.  The merchants and their ideological lackeys over the last few hundred years, men such as Bernard Mandeville, Adam Smith, Ludwig Mises, Friedrich Hayek, and Milton Friedman, as well as Ayn Rand (who is referred to by her biographer as "Goddess of the Market"), have all expressed their contempt for this most basic and fundamental teaching of Jesus Christ. Whether it is referred to as love, charity, sympathy, benevolence, or altruism, these prophets of Mammon have done their best to destroy the ethic of "love thy neighbor" by promoting "buying and selling" as a more sophisticated, fulfilling, and profitable alternative. In so doing they have helped to prepare the end times zombie horde for its final judgment.



For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 
But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.  (Galatians 5:13-15)



"For by thy sorceries were all nations deceived..."



"The ability to coax beneficent spirits from their habitations was very much a part of classical beliefs of theurgy. These spirits, be they gods, dryads, nymphs, or mythic personages with names like Zeus, Hera, Jupiter, or Ajax became the saints, cherubs, and seraphim of the Christian heavens. The Jolly Green Giant, the Michelin man, the Man from Glad, Mother Nature, Aunt Jemima, Speedy Alka Seltzer, the White Knight, the Enrgizer Bunny, and all the otherworldly kin are descendents of these earlier gods. They now reside in manufactured products not in the natural world and while earlier gods were invoked by fasting, prayer, rituals, and penance, their modern ilk are called forth by the prospect of purchase." —James B. Twitchell, Lead Us Into Temptation, Google Books edition, 40-41.



And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts. (Rev 9:20-21)



And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. (Rev 13:16-17)



And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble... (Rev 18:11-12)



Covetousness = Idolatry 
(Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 3:5)






Edit to remove font formatting - readability fix.  Admin.

Yes ScaRZ, this contemporary fixation is peculiar. I can't say I fully agree with Goodman here, but he makes some talking points. There is a fundamental psychology at play in the Zombie craze.

I have never watched a full Zombie movie. It's a ridiculous premise in my view. But millions have seen and millions more will be seeing this new Z movie, and so I'll watch it. And I'll keep in mind some of Goodman's points while viewing.

Most pastors never have much to say about the little season of Satan. This has got to be one of the most skipped over or just plain ignored areas of The Bible.

One area that has caught my attention for years now is........" the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished."

Those who were not part of the first resurrection and the meeting in the air are humans who have died and have remained unresurrected until the 1,000 year period of time is fulfilled. Most people believe "the rest of the dead" will be resurrected after the Little Season of Satan is fully concluded and the White Throne Judgment is about to take place. The words do not read after the Little Season of Satan is finished,but after the One Thousand years were finished. If it is only exactly 1,000 years fulfilled then the little season of Satan must be fulfilled also after "the rest of the dead" live again.

Will "the rest of the dead" take part in the Little Season of Satan?

How much time in our time frame of today will Satan have to deceive the nations once again?........How long is a Little Season?

Satan will be restrained in the Abyss for that 1,000 year period of time and can't deceive the nations of the earth. But once that 1,000 year period of time is fulfilled Satan's restraining will end for what Revelation calls "A Little Season". Satan now goes forth to deceive the nations of the earth from all four corners of the earth. We know that before the Millennium begins that the Antichrist and the False Prophet will be cast into the lake of fire. Satan is locked away in the Abyss and will have no direct influence on those living during the One Thousand years.

......."that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season"........(Revelation 20:3)



One thing to notice is that those who are blessed to take part in the first resurrection are to be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


Revelation 20:6......."Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

If they are to reign for 1,000 years only,then what about "The Little Season" of Satan that comes after 1,000 years are fulfilled?


We can read that there are saints here on earth during the "Little Season" but that's to be expected after the rule of Jesus Christ and teaching of the priest for 1,000 years.



Revelation 20:7-9

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Thank you ScaRZ.

Yes, those are the verses.  Well selected.

Now how do we discern these Prophecies, within the context of our modern contemporary understanding of all things?

If an ancient Prophet or Apostle could be present today and see the what we take for granted as normal... they would most surely be spell bound with the mysterious wonders of our technology.  Explaining cell phones and the global internet to them would be astonishing to them.  Let alone something as common place as Intercontinental Jet mass transport.

This vast dispensational 'disconnect' between their world/realm, from ours, is most difficult to synergize a coherent cohesive resolve.

I am convinced we will figure it out.  As we would not have been told, unless we were foreknown to understand.  The Prophecies were written for OUR time to resolve.  As we live in it.  And G-d will not leave us, nor forsake us, to flounder without a light to direct our path.


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ArchPriest of Russian Orthodox Church, links Edward Snowdon's whistle-blowing of NSA's Surveillance, to Biblical Prophecy.


Snowden deals blow to ‘global electronic prison camp’ –



Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin has praised Russian authorities for not caving in to pressure from abroad, saying granting asylum to US whistleblower Edward Snowden would help prevent the establishment of a ‘global electronic prison camp’.

“It is encouraging news that Russia is demonstrating its independence in this case as it has in many others, despite the pressure” said the head of the Holy Synod’s Department for Relations between the Church and Society.

Vsevolod Chaplin added that the Snowden saga has been broadly discussed both on the domestic and international level, with Russia’s position potentially bolstering its image as a country upholding “the true freedom of ideals.”

The Russian cleric further argued that Snowden’s revelations confirmed the existence of a pernicious problem discussed by Orthodox Christians for many years – “the prospective of a global electronic-totalitarian prison camp”.

“First they get people addicted to convenient means of communication with the authorities, businesses and among each other. In a while people become rigidly connected to these services and as a result the economic and political owners of these services get tremendous and terrifying power. They cannot help feeling the temptation to use this power to control the personality and such control might eventually be much stricter that all known totalitarian systems of the twentieth century,” Interfax news agency quoted Chaplin as saying.

The church official added that in his view true democracy remained an unreachable ideal.

“Any political system fixes the domination of a few over many. In the twentieth century the harshest forms of such political power used brute force, but now they are using soft power, through total data collecting and through soft persuasion of people, first through slogans but then through legal acts,” Chaplin explained. He noted that currently the soft power system was promoting such topics as declaring the western political system as the only viable option, making religion a marginal trend, and sidelining both criticism of market fundamentalism and leftist political platforms.

Chaplin urged Russian authorities to defend “real freedom, the freedom from the global ideological dictate and from the electronic prison camp.”

The cleric also offered a possible solution – the development of its own electronic communications system that would be independent from foreign-based mediums. “The nation has the brains for this and I hope we will also have a will,” Chaplin declared.

Russia is currently considering Edward Snowden’s request for temporary asylum and the former NSA contractor still remains in the transit zone of the Moscow’s Sheremetyevo airport.

The Russian Justice Ministry on Tuesday sent a formal response to a letter from US Attorney General, who assured Moscow that Snowden would not face the prospect of death or torture if handed over to the United States.

The Russian ministry did not provide the details of its reply to the press.

Reading the above about Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin brings up a recurring question I have: If biblical prophecy is true, then a OWO is inevitable. Would resistance, then, be futile? What would be the proper response?

Seems the only correct answer would be to be active in shedding light on the machinations and the nature of the intelligences behind it, and try to develop resources should our buying/selling rights be denied?

Of course, G-D himself delays, we are told, so as many as possible can enter the Kingdom. Our own efforts--should we try and slow it down--wouldn't seem to affect the divine timeline in any way. Unless, of course, our philosophical "resistance" is factored in by G-D and part of the timing?

I don't know if I'm making much sense at all, but I can't recall ever seeing that aspect of eschatology addressed and I'd be interested to hear y'alls take on it.

Gut wrote:

Of course, G-D himself delays, we are told, so as many as possible can enter the Kingdom. Our own efforts--should we try and slow it down--wouldn't seem to affect the divine timeline in any way. Unless, of course, our philosophical "resistance" is factored in by G-D and part of the timing?

I don't know if I'm making much sense at all, but I can't recall ever seeing that aspect of eschatology addressed and I'd be interested to hear y'alls take on it.

Welcome Gut to OMF and this thread.

This brings to mind some interesting material on Predestination I placed on OMF some time back. Michael Heiser's material on the subject was very eye opening for me. I've been meaning to repost it again and now seems a perfect time.




Key question........"What exactly is it that God decided in predestination?"


Normal View

God predestinates who will be saved,and all events equates foreknowledge with predesination. Before the foundation of the world.

Progress of human history......."All events "including" evil acts were predestinated."

At the end of human history........"Every event happened the way God predestinated it to."



Ramifications of the Normal View


*Every event no matter how good and evil,small or great was predestinated.

*There is "No" actual human freedom.
-Despite philosophical attempts to make humans seem free (e.g.,"their wills agree with God's") this predestination means humans could not have chosen otherwise.

*The "Fall" had to be predestinated.

*God therefore predestines all evil.

-Attempts to soften this (evil is part of God's plan but he doesn't ordain it ) leave God either needing evil for his plan to work,or deliberately including it in his plan (couldn't God think of a better one?)

-I don't see how this allows humans to image God,since freedom "Must" be a communicable attribute to image God (our not being able to make real choices means we are not like God.)




My Proposal....= Michael Heiser


Before the foundation of the world......."God predestinates the ends of human history (how/ what he wants it to end/accomplish) God decides to make humans free."

Progress of human history,all events are not predestinated (some may be) but all the end points are predestinated. God influences the behavior of his human imagers,who have freedom,through other humans,his Spirit,and other non-human imagers (e.g.,angels).

The separation of foreknowledge and predestination calls for this idea.

The end of human history........"All ends pretestinated by God are accomplished."



Ramifications of My Proposal


*Evil is not predestinated,it arises out of human or non-human freedom.

-God saw this,and had plans to fix it so that his decreed end (a believing remnant and kingdom/council on earth) will not be thwarted.
-God does not need or want evil in any sense. But he knew that was the cost of his decision.
-The cost of God's decision:suffering the effects of evil-but this was deemed by God preferable to creating robots made of flesh who were not like him.


*There is actual human freedom.

*The fall was not predestinated,but was foreknown (I'm giving them freedom and I know they'll screw it up,but I'm doing it anyway-and I already know how I'll defeat it toward my desired ends").



*The salvation of individuals may or may not be predestinated.

-God is free to predestinate a remnant if he chooses.Romans 8 (and other passages).

-The questions are:

*In what sense?

*Are all believers at all times predestinated?

*Can someone who believes stop believing?


-If we go into Romans 8 thinking God has decreed there will be a remnant (out of the elect),and "That" is what is predestinated in that passage.....


*Then look at the passage anew:

*Romans 8:28........"And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose."

-His purpose=The end;a remnant


*Romans 8:29........"For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."

-Notice that in this verse it is the "End" that is predestinated (the conformity of to Christ's image).


Red color are Michael Heiser's views added to Romans 8:30.


*Romans 8:30........"And those whom he predestined [to be part of the end remnant] he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified." [Their path will end in glorification]

*I am suggesting that "if you believe (and keep believing),God has predestinated that you will be saved and glorified." (You will be in the remnant that he predestinated to exist at the end of all things).


*I believe this honors both predestination and the necessity to believe (make that choice).

*Yes,God can influence some more than others.

*Yes,God has to awaken ("quicken";regenerate) people to enable them to believe.

*He can bypass people in that regard (He predestinated a remnant,not the salvation of everyone).

*Once you are enabled to believe,you must believe to have eternal life (no one will be found in heaven who did not believe).

*This enablement may or may not be the "calling" of Romans 8 - that passage does not use quickening language,so they may be synonymous,or only some of the enabled (quickened) may be called.

<...snip >

too much rambling on.  I'll rewrite later

Jake Reason wrote:<...snip >

too much rambling on.  I'll rewrite later

I read it earlier this morning and just now came back to reply. Guess I will wait to view the rewrite.

Smiles.
I enjoyed writing it, but hours later it looked more like I was simply talking to myself. It was to be the intro to a response to Gut's question. Way too long an intro. So I snipped it.

I liked your devotional, ScaRZ. Well thought out.

I'll return later when time permits

Hot off the press:

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/08/21/pope-benedict-idINDEE97K07920130821

MD02 wrote:Hot off the press:

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/08/21/pope-benedict-idINDEE97K07920130821

 

0.o

any thoughts on what that's all about MD?  ScaRZ?  Jake?

And why do you suppose we're only just now hearing about seven months later? I had to take a second look at the date of the article.

Until that mystical experience is related a bit more I don't think I can really weigh in. Mystical experiences are a rather elusive thing.

MD02 wrote:Until that mystical experience is related a bit more I don't think I can really weigh in.  Mystical experiences are a rather elusive thing.  

Seems sort of strange to me. If it wasn't some excuse to high tail it out of there, you'd think that there would be at least some sort description as to what was so profound as to pull out of a job like that. The article didn't breathe a word about it. Not even so much as an "interviewer" or "author" politely asking and being politely turned down. Surely such an interviewer or author would have thought to ask?

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/08/21/pope-benedict-idINDEE97K07920130821

This article was only put online yesterday.  I think He was asked to stand down and there was no mystical experience , the vatican tried to make it seem something it wasn't , @Cy I like the way you noticed there was no interviewer , etc , simply because it was a article straight from the vatican , you can tell it was a step down based on

"the arrest of his personal butler for leaking private documents alleging corruption in the Vatican."

Could it be possible that Ex pope Benedict sanctioned the move , also the background of The new pope is certainly worth a read "According to the Huffington Post, Bergoglio was a high-ranking official in the Society of Jesus of Argentina when a military junta was installed in the South American country in 1976 and he may have been involved in a kidnapping.. According to the Los Angeles Times, priests Orlando Yorio and Francisco Jalics were kidnapped in May of that year by the navy. “They surfaced five months later, drugged and seminude, in a field,” the Times reported. A 2005 lawsuit accused Bergoglio of unspecified involvement in the abductions. Reuters explains that “the military government secretly jailed [Yorio and Jalics] for their work in poor neighborhoods.”  A spokesman for Bergoglio called the claims “old slander.”

I found these links maybe it'll lead to more

I just now read the article and came away wondering if Benedict thought back when he said he ask God to let someone other than himself become Pope. He thought the pontiff should be someone younger and a better man than himself. Benedict viewed the position as a guillotine falling on him. But God didn't listen is what Benedict said.


I certainly believe The LORD has,does,and will move certain chosen people to fulfill his will. One chosen person for today's journey begins and will end when his/her time is completed. Someone else always grabs hold of the paton and begins their leg of the race.


Does this have anything to do with the claims of Benedict?........"I don't have the answer to that question."

Sirius-Nazis International/Argentina - NASA/Operation Paperclip- QUOTE #2-Jesuits/Vatican controll/BlackNobility-NightsofMalta/BigOil-now Argentina again and then there isthis:

QUOTE #1"Experimental approach to solar flare conditions and to the explosion-tendency of the solar plasma, ultraviolet excess analysis,excitation of space structure by pulsation-controlled plasma implosion testing the limitations of quantum mechanics and quantum dynamics.  Experimental approach to the unified field theory (insert foundation to zero-point energy propulsion systems) and to the velocity of propagation of gravity.  ~ Stevens, Hitler's Suppressed and Still-Secret Weapons, Science and Technology, pp 289-290, emphasis added.

QUOTE #2:  It appeared that the British were intercepting and decoding traffic over a clandestine network, a survivor of the German defeat, with ramifications in Europe and Germany. ~ Office Memorandum United States Government, To: The Director Top Secret Date May 15, 1948 From D.M. Ladd, Subject: Martin Bormann war criminal.

QUOTE #3:  1989-1991:  German reunification exhibits careful coordination between Bonn and Neo-Nazi groups in Eastern Europe.  Post reunification Germany moves quickly and effectively to break up Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, even to the point of sending German troops to protect Croatia, which over NATO, UN, and European opposition, it had unilaterally recognized diplomatically.  (p390 Nazi International, Joseph P. Farrell)

Where have we witnessed the Pope stalling or instigating in regards to an intention to break up nations?  Who else is involved in nation deconstruction and reconstruction?

And there is a difference between one earlier generation vs the new from Argentina?  The relation tale between the Jesuits and the employers of the nazi ideology is a long one...including this:

Quote:  Bormann, Muller,and Kammler themselves, not to mention Schacht, Skorzeny, Voss, Remer,and all the other parade of wickedness and evil we have surveyed here, were3 all themselves bureaucrats.  They were in a word, "professional" Nazis.  Nazism as an ideology is about but one thing:  gain power over as much of the world by whatever means possible, and hold on to it.  It was an ideology that maintained there were far too many "useless eaters" of "dubious racial background" in the world - much likethe pronouncements one hears coming from the global corporate elite today - and busily set out to do something about it. (p.391 Nazi International, Farrell)

Yes Farrell, the modern eugenics movement can be traced back to corporations that had dealings through a transnational web with the pre-WWII Germans.

We know the Nazis were obsessed with Sirius and ancient technology - ran around the planet looking for pieces which the U.S. Shadow Government was also accused of doing during first Gulf War and beginning of the Second Gulf War.

And we know there are post wwII ties with the fabian socialists in the USSR - Farrell in his book above points out:  The overall senario as such only argues that in order for all these various activities to have been pursued - especially with evident coordination as in the case of the Egypt affair, the Richter fusion project affair (Venezuela), Nazi activities inside of NASA, or the German reunification itself - that there had to have been in place a tight knit organization with very clear and secure channels of communication, chains of command, and financing on both sides of the Iron Curtain.(p390)

Both sides of the Iron Curtain?  And this older Pope quits in February ahead of the seeming finalizing of FEMA panic buying in the United States?  And then there is this:

From My Offline Notes 08-22-13 (not yesterdays at the top of the post!) #1 Strange Russians in the US  https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t158p45-uncommon-thoughts-on-common-things-cyrellys#3555

Coordination on both sides of the Iron Curtain?  Might explain the high strangeness we're seeing.  Did anyone know that cold war documents once stated that Massive Fires eliminating places to hide were on the Russian table just prior to a US invasion?

From ETs to Jesuits to Nazis to Argentina to Paperclip to modern eugenics to the military industrial complex/shadow government system to DUMBS to talk of pole shift and "needing to be at an elevation of above 1500"  to ocean sea-floor spreading causing the acceleration of magnetic reversals and inundation of islands and continental plate sinking - to Cloward and Piven alongside fabian socialism and Russians wandering the US.

Did these guys miss any bases?

Lol.  Argentina.  I suppose they thought no one was paying any attention?  Cy

Cyrellys wrote:

MD02 wrote:Hot off the press:

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/08/21/pope-benedict-idINDEE97K07920130821

 

0.o

any thoughts on what that's all about MD?  ScaRZ?  Jake?

pman3 wrote:
I think He was asked to stand down and there was no mystical experience , the vatican tried to make it seem something it wasn't ,

Yes, that is my understanding too.  Dan said Ron told him to stand down.  Coincidentally 3 months later, the Rat did.  LOL  There is never a scarcity of the strange and bizarre written on OpenMindsForum.

Cyrellys wrote:]And why do you suppose we're only just now hearing about seven months later?  I had to take a second look at the date of the article.

I presume it to be a diversionary tactic.  The Vatican is in cahoots with the Luciferians and global organized crime.

There are numerous MONUMENTAL issues occurring in the world at this time.  example.....

- Fukushima now confirmed in Japanese News to be spilling Apocalyptic Amounts of radiation into the ocean.  And is unstoppable.  Thousands of children are developing cancers - Children!!!!  Millions of Japanese will ultimately have to be evacuated.  A 10th, or more, of Japan will be uninhabitable for several hundred years!  This Kind of News is simply too earth changing to be getting attention, so a diversion is required to prevent panic.

-  Egypt, Libya, Iraq and Afghanistan are all Seriously failed Gov't engineering projects.  All of them exceedingly worse off now, than before the PtB Coalition Invasions.  It's becoming very difficult to control the Media that comes out of these regions.  Too many people are learning the truth.

-  The now globally known surveillance apparatus which has taken away the entire world's privacy, is under significant attack, while G-20 Politicians are looked upon and scoffed as idiots for thinking they are getting away with covering it up and justifying it.

There is a MASSIVE global threat to maintaining Continuity of Gov't at this time.  Diversionary tactics will have to be employed for there to be any hope that we'll get through the next few years without WW3.  The PtB are certainly well aware.  And so too the Vatican.

So the Popes are simply saying, Hi there, keep smiling, God loves you.  While also offering assurances to the PtB that the Vatican will continue to play the cheerful Scarlett Whore.

Meanwhile, it appears obvious to me that the PtB are going to use Syria to buy some time.  America and the UK is lying about knowing the Assad Gov't is responsible for using chem/bio weapons on its people.  And 3 weeks ago the Saudi Royal Family offered Russia a global Oil partnership and further offered to guarantee NO Terrorist attacks (whom they control) at the Sochi Olympics.  All this if Russia backs away from Syria.  Oh and, Saudi also offered assurances that Russia's Syrian military base would not be harmed.  Yes 3 Weeks Ago - BEFORE there was any gassing and before today's threat by the US and UK preparing to Attack Syria, with Battle Ships dispatched and on their way.

All pre-planned and orchastrated.

http://business.financialpost.com/2013/08/27/syria-russia-saudi-oil-deal/

http://rt.com/usa/kerry-syria-chemical-attack-017/

http://rt.com/usa/us-syria-strike-chemical-060/

http://rt.com/news/putin-cameron-syria-attack-020/

And it looks like there will be another stock market crash in the fall. Buffett is betting on it.

.

Gut wrote:Reading the above about Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplin brings up a recurring question I have: If biblical prophecy is true, then a OWO is inevitable. Would resistance, then, be futile? What would be the proper response?

If inevitable, which appears so, I would question what is inevitable?  IOW, which prophectic interpretation is most accurate.  How would it unfold and in what form would it appear to us, in contrast to how it looked to the preindustrial seers who wrote it?

I think this is important when asking if resistance is futile.  As surely it is encumbrant upon us to seek and work to provide safety and a build a future for our children regardless of what evils may arise and encompass us.  Consequently, resistance can never be entirely futile, as we possess the ability to shape and form how evil might arise and take effect.  Even evil has to conform to be effective in it's snares. Our resistance can change it.

Which leads to - when it arrives and we can't resist it anymore, what is our response to a New OWO?

I am reminded of Y'shua/Jesus saying- "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's".  There are many things Caesar can not take.  But what are his, let him have.

Seems the only correct answer would be to be active in shedding light on the machinations and the nature of the intelligences behind it, and try to develop resources should our buying/selling rights be denied?

Yes, surely we're created to survive.  Survival is part of what we are.   There is no shame in that which is naturally inherent.

Although as a red-letter man I do not believe we are taught to fight back.  Turn and walk away in peace.  Have no part of them.  Let the dead do what the dead do.  And depart from their sight.


.

Jake Reason wrote:Yes, that is my understanding too.  Dan said Ron told him to stand down.  Coincidentally 3 months later, the Rat did.  LOL  There is never a scarcity of the strange and bizarre written on OpenMindsForum.

I'm still spinning in contemplation about a great many things as of lately.

Do you think there is more where that came from?

Without a doubt MD02.  

On my end hearing of elites sending their families out of the country, of spec ops finding and disarming the n00k which was said to be ensconced in Helena MT, then a few months later some officer in Fort Harrison Helena MT claims to be opening what is marked and he thinks is his office furniture to allegedly find a guillotine?  To NASA whistleblower essentially saying we're not out of the woods yet on the poleshift/planetary cataclysm (and confirmed by two other sources - one mil), and like Jake said, Fukashima, Bengazi, now the Syria chemical weapons false flag, to system attempts at making it illegal for farmers and ranchers to sell direct to the public, outlawing vegetable gardens in the cities, or other small food producers like two or three pet chickens or rabbits.  

And then there's Dan's latest disclosures which really isn't anything new to me but he thinks its new to everyone.....Geez the list is long.  I simply don't have the where-with-all to type it all out.

And all of it strange and bizarre.

And you know what?  I have found that after being raised amid all this stuff, spending most of my adult life in it via one fashion or another, that I have a really hard time among the mundane and uninformed venues of life.

I have been participating in Toastmasters with my teen daughter of late, and like this morning at 630 AM I get to participate in table topics where they ask you a question and impromptu you must provide a response sort of like an excerpt to a speech or presentation.  I was asked this morning something so simple and innocuous about the local population in the low income bracket as a common problem and how I would solve it, that off the top of my head I couldn't come up with a re-wired response fast enough and without some serious stutter.  It simply isn't an encompassing concern in my paradigm.  

My paradigm is populated with patterns, knowledge, events, and powers that makes the question rather alien, because I know it as something manufactured and you simply can't come up with a coherent quip on that in 30 seconds impromptu among an uninformed audience without sounding like a complete lunatic.  

I flubbed my way through it with the lamest, most inadequate response my morning muddled mind could contrive.  It was embarrassing.  And my daughter knowing me, sat there holding her breath to keep from roaring in laughter with a poorly hid smirk because mom was caught speechless for once and sounding really pathetic.  

Lol, this paradigm will eat you alive and spit you up on a doorstep of the most ridiculous nature in circumspect and test your mettle with what it knows will trip you up.  In my case something a part of the so-called "normal" world.

Hopefully when it does it to each of you, there won't be someone sitting on one of those desk bells you tap with a finger every time you find yourself saying "umm",  "ah", "and" or "well".   After four dings, he - the Ah Counter gave up, sat back in his chair and rolled his eyes in the air arms folded...ex-military, ex-city government...Oh man.  I hate desk bells.  I can't think before two cups of bosuns brew and I really can't think with a desk bell critiquing my every failure to engage synapses.

Cy

Edit to add: Lol, I seriously need to figure out how high to revv up the rpms till I can jam it into gear without the clutch. If you get my meaning.