Hello, Cy, hello, OMF II

dan wrote:Thank you very much, Jake, for you blessings wrt my meeting with John C. It went well, so I'm sure that you were there in spirit.

From: Dan Smith 
Date: January 23, 2013 11:42:36 AM EST
To: Paul Chefurka 
Cc: [24/60+ folks on a population/climate change list.....] 

Subject: Eschatology 101

I'm preparing to give a talk to the Baltimore Green Forum on February 24 concerning eschatology, and I need to come up with a title in the next couple of days.  

(BTW, I just got a call from my son, to say that his graduate professor in environmental health at GW/DC is touting Peak Oil as a primary health policy issue.  Or should it be climate change?)  

My starting point will be that, if modern civilization is, just within the last decade or so, beginning to get serious about eschatology, then, perhaps, before we call it quits and turn out the lights, we ought to recall that our civilization has, from day one, been based on an eschatological expectation/premise. 

Rather strangely, however, I, at least, am not aware of anyone else making this obvious, yet startling observation.  I've always been on the lookout for psychological blind-spots, and I'll wager that this is, quite literally, the Mother of all such lacuna.  

For the last two years, I've been taking this eschatological coal/lacuna to our local 'Newcastle', Grace Fellowship (mega) Church.  Well, to make a long story, short, they've only threatened twice to have me arrested, and, otherwise, we're still on speaking terms, somewhat miraculously. 

Is it just an historical coincidence that the civilization that has been preaching eschatology, now finds itself in the position of actually practicing eschatology?  IMHO, no!  

So, should we stop preaching or stop practicing, or both......? 

Actually, I would advocate neither one.  Rather, we may only need to recall that, strictly within the Eschatological proximity, there is also the prophecy of a Great Awakening.  All of this, I submit, was intended as a self-fulfilling prophecy.  We may observe and/or we may participate, in the Awakening, that is.  

Participate?  Heck, yes!  Anyone for ground zero?  

Dan 


On Jan 23, 2013, at 7:31 AM, Paul Chefurka  wrote:

I guess where I part company from much of this august assembly is that I accept (albeit with some regret) the hopelessness of various instrumental (political etc.) approaches to our common problems.  Further, I believe (insomuch as this would-be Pyrrhonian skeptic "believes" anything) that our only real hope for adapting with least suffering would be a change of our collective consciousness. And while I know that such a transformation is possible on a personal level, I accept that there is no instrumentality that will bring it into the collective.

Which pretty much leaves me with chopping wood, carrying water - and Ho'oponopono for my transgressions.

My apologies for all the superstition, Steve :-)

Paul

Jake Reason wrote:

dan wrote:Hi, Jake,

I'm preparing to meet with John C of SfA for lunch, tomorrow.

John is my polar opposite in the seminar. He very much goes by the book, but he is my only possible confederate on the young-earth side.

As you know, the young-earth view is usually indicative of narrow-mindedness and Biblical literalism. Not a good match for you. I would suspect he has agreed to meet you, under the motive to evangelize.

John is a bit inconsistent on the Endtimes........ The countdown has started, but the real action wont begin until the Tribulation is underway.

That is perhaps the most prevalent view. Most believe the re-establishment of Israel to have been the 'sign' that commenced the roll-out of the end-times. But that the Great Tribulation has not yet begun. According to prophecy the Temple is present during the Great Trib. And so the presumption is, until it is rebuilt we can't be in the GT.

I don't know what to do about that. I have nothing new to say....... We are due for a reprieve from the Tribulation. We have been granted a reprieve from nuclear armageddon, which would leave the world in very poor shape for the Millennium.

I would point out to John that the Armageddon of the bible is hardly a match for any sort of nuclear holocaust.

Yes, but 1/3rd of the world's population is prophesied to parish by war. A limited nuclear exchange would fit the prophecies. Armageddon is the last battle, after all wars. It takes place solely in Israel.

And what about the Grand deception and the Great apostasy?
And what have the Xians contributed to disarmament. That idea runs very contrary to all their right-wing rhetoric, and even the pro-gun stance of many of them.

This is where you will receive the greatest resistance.

As every interpretation of prophecy includes an Anti-Christ. It/his purpose is to con the world into accepting a false religion. This religion will incorporate and collude with Christianity, but it will not be truly Christian.

And Dan, you of course are trying to do exactly that. So red lights and sirens will always sound when you try to convince Christians of your new religion.

As for the guns? The AC system will be forced on the world's people, by Government. With refusal subject to imprisonment and/or death. And so it is natural for American Evangelical Christians to be very worried that its government may turn on them, as prophecy outlines.

Also, Xians, generally, are anti-Green, which is seen as a Satanic conspiracy to disenfranchise them by promoting more government intervention.

It is my experience that Christians are usually more pro-green, than non-Christians. Government intervention is seen as a separate issue.

What did Jesus say about the Tribulation and Armageddon?

I see you read the Olivet Discourse, today.

The rest can be read in the book - Revelation. Its full title is "The Revelation of Jesus Christ".

Oh and one other major resistance... Prophecy is quite clear of an actual return of Christ. Not a human or worldly replacement.

I'm sorry I can't offer more help in prep for your lunch meeting.

and this thing in the senate is more of the same--they are once more threatening the "nuclear option"...it's like holding a gun to a woman's head demanding that she have sex with you or you'll rape her
at first, i thought we'd be lucky and someone was going to nuke DC...
they should make reid pull that trigger
the threat of the "nuclear option" is also known as extortion
they'll nuke DC when patriots converge on DC to remove the corruption...then they'll take out as many of the resistance to the corruption as possible. They won't do it until it is profitable for them
yeah
they're already set up in Denver so they no longer need DC
right

We are just past the point where they care about legitimacy
rioting and openly marching is stupid, it is the patriots task to force them to fight on OUR terms, not THEIRS
They've canned RP and neutralized his son so there's no real opposition there
the only thing openly marching does is hand your I.D. to them

the only thing openly marching does is hand your I.D. to them
then they can pick you off at leisure
*** AnimalMother has joined #Libertytreeradio
the biggest problem with protestors is they don't realize the war is already in action and they don't look at what they are doing as part of it.
if they did they wouldn't be so stupid in their choices
protesting in person = offering one's self up as a potential easy target. Get enough protesters together and the opportunity becomes more appealing
they don't get it...the enemy they face openly talks about depopulation under the guise of "population stabilization" and braggs in the form of things like movies and white papers flaunting it in everyone's face as a litmus test to sleepiness of the general population
I seen the movie the hunger games yesterday and read between the lines at the message that went over the heads of most viewers. No one furious about it as necessary

Re: German troops...Yes, the have a fighter-bomber unit at Holloman and we have heard rumors of infantry at Ft. Bliss. Germans have been in Alamogordo for years with F-4s and Tornadoes. Of additional concern is the SPP. Under Partnerhship for Peace programs additional foreign military units are tasked to operate with National Guard units. Ppl need not only to apply pressure on SHERIFFS,
but also on National Guard commanders
http://beforeitsnews.com/politics/2013/01/american-holocaust-and-the-coming-new-world-ordergerman-soldier-interviewunpeacekeepers-video-2486162.html
Gun Owners Of America, This Is Not "URBAN LEGEND" But Reality Coming To America. Video | Politics
thanks Animal seen it yesterday
there's parallel accounts up here in MT
Most of the SPP will liaise with former Soviet Bloc unis and with units in Central and South America
yes pliable sheep with a thirst for blood, any blood will do

they do NOT like us...and have no restraints in acting brutally in their own countries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Partnership_Program
contol them by giving what suits them, our blood
State Partnership Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
word has gone out to the Germans, mess with us-get planted
do you really expect them to take that as anything other than a challenge? They know this will start on their boss's terms as American's won't act until openly attacked. That gives them the advantage militarily
I don't think I'd care to be living close to Holloman
the neighbors may end up being the sacrificial lambs
I think if there was a march on Washington, and they nuked it, it might be worth it.

I am really concerned about the Polish units assigned to IL. The Poles are damn good fighters as the French, Germans and Russians know. We have a huge Polish immigrant population in America.. People across the ocean talk. A dialogue must initiate between Polish Americans and Poles overseas...do not make war on us...word is that this is happening now
unless the neighbors took the bull by the horns and dealt them first
word coming back is that the Krauts were none to pleased
too
well that's at least good news
damn straight...we need to avail ourselves of any and every opportunity to send the message wherever it needs to go. Babushkas in Poland will be very upset if Jani stands a chance of not coming home...

Tell '
ppl are going up to the cops with a witness and letting them know informally and politely they will shoot back if they violate their oaths
Tell 'em if they make war on us they only way they'll gett the bodies back is after they've been run through a meat processing plant
sounds good to me...
'en bulk
you guys in the Midwest need to start talking to Polacks and Gemans with relatives in the old country
I don't personally know of anyone out here
Mexicans across the generations are already doing that here
just pass the info on every chance you get
the first time the gangs get out of step will be last

You are failing to understand here that the US nation was created to be a track which gives the opportunity to avoid what the Globals are currently doing. They are the old track. THE CONSTITUTION was the new track endorsed by the Creative Source. So your comments about the "right-wing rhetoric and pro-gun stance of many of them" is illustrating your ideology is infected with the same twisted perceptions and beliefs as the constructed situation....i.e. "An almost trivial, ancient misunderstanding turns out to have been crucial to orchestration of the Endtimes" and "timing and sequencing."

Mike and Fred, 

MoAPS and Metamorphosis..... Chrysalis failure......? 

Preaching failure to those who might wish to take up the cause of a MoAPS, may not be the optimal strategy for cosmic intervention.  The three of us, humans, have come a long way out of the muck.  Was there never a slight miracle in that ascension?  Has the cosmic miracle machine, at this last hour, been turned off?  Maybe it has been, but it should not be our responsibility to be bringing these bad tidings.  

Rather, may we not put ourselves in the shoes of the putative cosmic intervenors?  Is there any harm in this?  If the three of us were the cosmic consciousness, what would we now do to save the world?  

Of course, this cannot have been a last-minute fire-drill.  Can we not assume that there is existence beyond space and time?  That time is not a cosmic absolute.  That time is a construct of some sort.  This relativization of time is the core of any possible MoAPS.  

The mere fact that time is not a Newtonian absolute, implies that humanity is not a cosmic experiment.  We did not come this far, just to be thrown under the cosmic bus.  Given this putative good news, then how should we intervene in human affairs?  

Dan 

Jake Reason wrote:Dan,

A funny little thing called Love.....

"Our journey is not complete until our gay brothers and sisters are treated like anyone else under the law -- for if we are truly created equal, then surely the love we commit to one another must be equal as well."
President Barack Obama Jan 21, 2013

Is this a little thing? Well, Americans are entitled to their views. It's a free country. But what of the rest of the world? Does it matter?

I suggest the seeds of Global War are now planted. This is a global historical turning point.

A casual essay on Global Social Politics -
Part One

Part Two

Part Three


added by Cyrellys - post with links to articles on Christian Persecutions.

From: Dan Smith 
Date: January 24, 2013 11:44:38 AM EST
To: Steven Salmony 
Cc: list of ~70...... 

Subject: Eschatology 102

Steve, 

I thank you for reposting some of this dialog to the larger list.  I had been whittling the list down, manually, over the course of yesterday's conversation, and will continue to do so, periodically, to save folks' patience.  List control on my iPad is non-existent.  

Several general questions have been raised, yours among them, which do need attention, while, hopefully, moving forward...... 

Where there seems to be a general agreement is that the most likely 'miracle' that could save a semblance of civilization would be a 'radical' transformation of consciousness.  

On this list, there appear to be generous representations of our three major belief systems.... materialism, pantheism and theism.  I was raised as a materialist, and have two masters degrees in physics ('66 & '77).  In 1975 I was introduced to the anthropic principle.  

The so-called 'anthropic' principle provides a rational confluence for our three belief systems, and so it may also be the gateway to a universal radical transformation, along with a smidgen, perhaps, of 'external' input. 

Back to consciousness.......  

Consciousness is a purely subjective phenomenon.  Therefore, it is not measurable and not otherwise objectifiable.  There will be no scientific smoking gun, when it comes to consciousness.  Which might give our materialist friends a slight pause.  Scientific omniscience may not be rational, since reason itself is substantially based upon the stubbornly persistent 'illusion' of consciousness.  Reason deals mainly with intentionalities and qualities, not measurable quantities.  

This brings us to the historical fact that scientific reductionism is long overdue for a revamping, which opens the door to the mother of all paradigm shifts (MoAPS).  It is the putative MoAPS which is the miraculous skyhook upon which the fate of humanity probably hangs, twisting in the wind, some may suppose.  

So, there we have it.......... 

Anthropic principle + mind-body problem >>> MoAPS..... which is the most likely trigger for a radical transformation of human consciousness.  

Dan 

Admin wrote:Dan,

I am a mirror of the Creative Source. I have unlimited love where Creation is concerned, until that Creation becomes something it was never intended to be - mass murder on a planetary scale or to eradicate a strand deliberately created by the Source, i.e. the positive U.S. Constitutional track to human governance evolution.

I used to think there was a mistake in sending a sword to this situation. Now I'm not so sure.

Should the day comes I will mirror its rage. How can you or anyone else, aware of how interconnected we are with the Source, expect otherwise?

Final choices have not yet been made. Those choices about the Nature of this world can still be adjusted.

Free Will. To be fully redeemed, the subject in question must choose to be redeemable.

Cy

From: Dan Smith 
Date: January 25, 2013 9:23:37 AM EST
To: Lore Rosenthal 
Cc: Sam B Hopkins, Steven Salmony , Paul Chefurka 

Subject: Stewards of Land and Sea?

Even this much is difficult for most of us to imagine.  But, at the next Baltimore Green Forum, on Feb 24, Dan Smith will be suggesting that we may need to take this admonition to a whole new level..... to consider ourselves as the possible co-Creators, with a nod to our ancient wisdom.  

Dan is the author of BestPossibleWorld.com, and is active on the Open Minds Forum.  People from the Baltimore/Timonium area might even think of this as a Grace and Green initiative.  
---------

Lore,

Sam tells me you have a release deadline today.  I said I would run this by him, but also wanted to meet your deadline.  

Dan

Where you and I seem to differ, most crucially, is in your quite reasonable belief that the Earth is an experiment.

If we want to save freedom and humanity, can we not join to convince our brothers and sisters that none of us are lab-rats, and that we all share in God's love and protection?

What then would there be to fight about?

From: Dan Smith 
Date: January 26, 2013 9:58:14 AM EST
To: Paul Chefurka, Mike K, Robin D
Cc: Steven Salmony, Gail S, Sam BHopkins, Gary G, Fred M 

Subject: If you meet the Buddha on the path.........

Paul, Mike, Robin et al., 

I'll be leaving in a few hours for Cabo/cape Matapalo in SW Costa Rica, where there may be just one computer for email, at the lodge.  This provides an opportunity for me to compose my last will and testament, which is a good idea, in any case, for a guy about to turn 70, with one stroke already notched on his belt.  

Paul has been very forthright about putting his cards on the table..... I will attempt to reciprocate......  

I continue to labor under the impression that the world needs to be saved.  IOW, civilization is being backed into some fairly precarious corners and blind alleys.  For those who are cognizant of our many possible fatal predicaments, presently foreseeable, very few of those would wager much on any semblance of our civilized survival, for even just the next few decades.  

Most of us on Steve's list would agree that it would take a miracle to pull our iron out of this fire.   Several of us are hoping for a gathering ground-swell, taking the form of a global awakening to our mutual predicaments, and then a rising to the great challenge that they present to us. 

How might you and I attempt to trigger and/or facilitate such a ground swell?  

I was wondering the same thing, about 45 years ago, while working toward a physics PhD at Princeton.  I was just coming to the conclusion that science and technology did hold much promise for a solution to the population/resource crisis that was already looming, even back then.  I dropped out of school...... my mind a virtual blank slate.  I began exploring for answers in various other fields, and briefly came back to physics, at the Univ of Md, after first hearing about the  cosmological anthropic principle.  That was when I had my little mystical experience, which seemed to hold out the hope of a solution to our human predicament.  It quickly became apparent that the path being laid out for me had some strongly non-academic aspects, so, once again, I took off on my own.  Let me hasten to point out that having some independent means made possible my independent 'research'.  

(cont.) 

From: Dan Smith
Date: January 26, 2013 10:44:45 AM EST
To: Paul Chefurka 
Cc: ...... 
Subject: Re: If you meet the Buddha on the path.........

(cont......) 


After about five years of struggling with quantum/mind dualism and other such esoteric attempts to make sense of the world, I came to the conclusion that the answer to every human puzzle and predicament would be predicated on what a now refer to as the mother of all paradigm shifts (MoAPS).  This was in 1981.  My occasional forays back onto various local campuses left me with no doubt that it would take a miracle to trigger this MoAPS.  

Ten years later, I believe that I caught a glimpse of that miracle...... it possibly had already occurred, some fifty years previously, out in a desert known as Trinity Flats.  But, no, I'm not referring to..... “Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.”  But rather I'm referring to this..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_fireballs .  Oh?!  

Yes, in 1991 I had another 'mystical' experience, which indicated to me a sense of urgency, like I needed to call 911, about the MoAPS.  Hmmm....... what is that number?!  The experience led to join MUFON, which, just then, made an announcement of the nascent crop-circle phenomenon in Britain.  I soon heard that the UK/MOD was investigating the phenomenon.  A few phone calls to Britain led me to Larry Lemke at NASA Ames, who gave me the phone number for Ron [P] at the CIA.  The rest is 'history', well, we became the Ron&Dan show, as you may see by googling our names.  

Sorry, folks, but this is a 'funny' story, and the devil, as usual, is in the details.......... and I must pack a bag or two....... 

(to be continued, as time permits......) 

cont....2)  (enroute to Atlanta) 

I was later told that the reason for the UFO coverup was the fact of a disturbing message that had been delivered from the 'stars'.  By this time, my metaphysical studies had already lead me to consider the possibility that sustainability was not the outcome that was intended for us.

Sustainability has never made much sense to me.  After coming all this way, out of the primordial muck, why stop here?  Who decided where progress and evolution were stop, and why right now, on yours and my watches?  Ours had been an exciting journey...... what would we do for an encore, for the next 5 billion years, until the Sun went out? 

Well, 'Jake Reason', my long-time interlocutor on the Open Minds forum, still insists that he won't be ready to meet his maker until he has been granted a flying-saucer tour of the Milky Way.  I kid you not, just ask him!  I must be a spoil-sport.  

(We are flying parallel to the Skyline drive, and we imagine that we can see Mt. Mitchell, with a frosting of snow.) 

My proposed MoAPS is the Best Possible World Hypothesis, which is unabashedly pre-Copernican.  Yes, you heard that right...... I'm just a born-again Geocentrist!  And I'm sure you're thinking....... what a waste of a good education!  

I guess you could also say that I'm an Advaitist (non-dualist) Christian, or heretic, if ask my friends at Grace Fellowship, where I'm the only young-Earther in our Sunday seminar.  

But that's not quite true either, the young-Earth part of it.  Well, according to the BPWH, we live on an eternally young Earth that, for the best aesthetic reasons, is given a very 'mature' appearance.  

I do apologize for these twists and turns in this exposition........ and once again, time is flying.....

(cont.)

From: Dan Smith 
Date: January 26, 2013 10:16:52 PM EST
To: Paul Chefurka 
Cc: 8 members of the Salmony list 

Subject: Re: If you meet the Buddha on the path.........

(cont.......3) (on to San Jose, CR)  

Eternally young.....?  And it even gets better.........  In about 200 years we're gonna get a makeover.  

What happened to the 'disturbing message'?  Well, between here and the makeover lies the Eschaton, in fact, the Eschaton is also the Makeover.  What is going on?  

It's very simple.... We happen to live on a closed timelike curve, qv., which is like a serpent biting  its tail, as depicted in the archetypal symbol of the Ouroboros.  

BUT, no, this is not a cycle, or eternal return.  This is just the singular, best possible Circuit.  From the PoV of us, mortals, history is definitely finite, lasting just about the duration of recorded history, or about 6,000 years.  

Surely I jest..... surely I'm making this up!  Maybe yes, maybe no.  But don't ask Ron, because he would be about the last one to know.  


7:05pm----------- 

(Golly, I hate to tell you the view you are missing.  The full moon is rising over the Eveglades, and now the Keys, and then on over Havana.) 

But there is a Soul-cycle, within this Circuit.  Despite everything everyone has told you, we are only doing time-shares on the one cosmic Soul.  Yes, maties, you and I are Soul-mates, whether we like it or not!  

Here, again, the physicists figured this out, first, wrt the lowly electron.  Just ask Richard Feynman for his one-electron theory of the universe, qv. in Wiki.  The poor cosmic Soul gets reincarnated  ~10^10 times, and each of us is one of those incarnations.  I kid you not!  Who could have made this stuff up?  Surely not Chicken Little, which happens to be my Aviary code-name.  

I've got one last trick up my sleeve.........  You remember Noah's ark?  Well, that was really just a time-machine.  Honest!  That's how some of us get from the Omega, back to the Alpha.  Our descendants become our ancestors.  Pretty neat, huh?  So, no, we don't go back and kill our grandparents, because, if truth be known, they are also our grandchildren.  

Now, was that so bad?  The end of the world might be disturbing, from our very personal PoV, but, from a larger perspective, we see how everything works out, in the wash.  

If anyone can come up with a better BPWH mousetrap, speak now.......!  

Have I left anything out?  Any questions?  It only took me 35 years to figure this out, and now you can read it in 35 minutes, if you are a slow reader, like me.  

We're still 90 minutes out of San Jose........ 

So now what?  Is the BPWH/MoAPS going to save the world?  Not if no one can believe it.  

But, where is the competition?  Nothing else makes a lick of sense.  According to every other theory, we are meat machines in a meaningless universe, or we are just dying to get off the wheel of life.  It's us or rust.  

Oh, dear, there is just one other thing I forgot.......... the 4M/K/SoT/X2.  Now, I'm only going to spell this out once....... Mahdi, Maitreya, Messiah, Magdelin(sp?)/Kalki/Spirit-of-Truth/X2.  As Archimedes once said, give me a fulcrum, and I'll move the world. 

Like I say, folks, if you meet the Buddha on the path........  Or as my Xian brothers and sisters like to say...... the only good saint is a dead saint.  

Hey, as my 3rd-grade baseball coach once told me....... if you're gonna make a mistake, make it big.  He who hesitates......  Fools rush in.......  You get the idea.  It was Ron who once told me that my Aquarium code-name was Sunfish.  Hey, give Chicken Little an inch, and he will take a mile.  I'm just doing my patriotic duty.  Mine is not to reason why?  Well, tell me something that makes more sense, please!  

Ok, so what are we waiting for......?  Not a whole lot, really.  Hey, sports fans, what more can I do?  Isn't the ball in your court, now?  Either the BPWH is going to go viral, or it's not, and time is wasting.  No?  

I mean, look, if you were the cosmic spirit, how would you handle the big Awakening?  Can you think of a better way?  If you have a bird in the hand, are [you] going to holdout for two, in the bush?  

Or, remember the story about the poor guy on the roof of his house, while the flood-waters are rising...... Along comes someone paddling a tippy canoe, telling him to get in.  No, thanks, says the guy on the roof, I'm waiting for God to save me.  


(45' out.......) 

. 

dan wrote:Thanks Cy, Jake and MD02,

We made it!

Date: January 26, 2013 10:16:52 PM EST

(cont.......3) (on to San Jose, CR)  

(45' out.......) 

Preaching 'UFOs are Demons', is the surest way to reduce the number of those written in the book of life. Grand Slam for Lucy.