Personalism 102

First topic message reminder :

This is a topic reminder post……

Personalism 102 is just a continuation Personalism 101…….. as we approach the limit of 40 pages.  

The contention remains that the best possible world is necessarily based on the philosophy and ontology of Personalism.  

The ontology is immaterialism, taken at it’s most fundamental level.

Chivo. Im writing an old fashion love song as we speak

painterdoug wrote:Chivo.  Im writing an old fashion love song as we speak

Then you sir, are doing the best of things.

TTPTB

I would like to state, I love my country.

As flawed as America is and we certainly have brought a lot of bad karma on ourselves we will have to pay back, this is the best place on earth.

I gladly serve.

I have been able to explore myself here.

That says something great about America.

There is such a mix of traditions.

If one be up for it, you can find the end of the rainbow here.

Granted, most will not.

But I did.

If Truth is to be found anywhere, it is to be found within the domain of the interpersonal.

Without Truth, we all are lost.

Without Truth, it’s just…… granny get your gun.

The domain of the interpersonal has been reduced to consensus politics……. to pluralism.  

Pluralism, in the modern understanding, is a mile wide and an inch deep.  

Whatever happened to……. e pluribus unum?  

What happened to the Truth was our valiant attempt at objectivity.  

We became impatient with…… e pluribus unum……. we thought we could take a shortcut through science.  

Science became our battering ram……. against the mighty fortresses that were sectarian religion.  

Meanwhile, the intelligentsia was mesmerized by power of science and technology.  

The objectivity of science overwhelmed the subjectivity of the humanities.  There was no question as to who was in the academic wheelhouse.  

We’ve had nearly four centuries of science dominating…… defining modern civilization.  

Where would we be without science……… freezing in the dark?  

There is no turning back.  

Well…… such are the blandishments of modernity.  
……….

A widely shared opinion among observers is that scientific materialism has passed its high water mark…… perhaps decades ago.  

Quine noted the impossibility of an analytic/synthetic distinction in 1950…… signaling the demise of logical positivism.  

However, the subsequent collapse of scientific materialism has been a study in slow motion……. the coup de grace remains elusive.  



(cont…….)

If we have no basis or resources for discerning Truth within ourselves, where do we turn?  

We become nothing more than flotsam that is tossed about by the currents of public opinion.  

What are we if we have no internal compass or there is no pole star to steer by.  

That such internal guidance could exist is the major thesis of personalism.  

That we live by the golden rule ought be a no brainer, but unfortunately it’s not.  

It seems that animals have a greater respect for the golden rule than do humans…… animals do not engage in warfare……. whereas humans do, almost universally.

In most other circumstances, we are quite willing to espouse it.



(cont……….)

You can only turn to yourself.

When you are ready to drop all the names and isms, you know where I am.

I don’t hide.

Good luck scrambled eggs!

Personalism as philosophical topic is significantly impeded by personhood being exploited as a political issue in the debate on the definition of life.

By converting the philosophical issue into a biological issue, the right-to-lifers attempt to objectify personhood…… exactly contrary to the philosophical concerns.  

And when has philosophy ever had precedence in the political arena?

The lifetime of scientific materialism is being inadvertently and artificially extended by our increasingly partisan politics.  

Politics makes for strange bedfellows.



(cont…….)

dan wrote:If we have no basis or resources for discerning Truth within ourselves, where do we turn?  

We become nothing more than flotsam that is tossed about by the currents of public opinion.  

What are we if we have no internal compass or there is no pole star to steer by.  

That such internal guidance could exist is the major thesis of personalism.  

That we live by the golden rule ought be a no brainer, but unfortunately it’s not.  

It seems that animals have a greater respect for the golden rule than do humans…… animals do not engage in warfare……. whereas humans do, almost universally.  

In most other circumstances, we are quite willing to espouse it.



(cont……….)

We have our own personal field of consciousness, and We can attune to this and larger such fields which have divine and never moving guidance system.
ALL knowledge is contained and available with intent by such tuning to ever larger fields of consciousness.
hobbit

The Stanford SEP has several comprehensive entries pertaining to consciousness.  

One might easily come away with the impression that the philosophical community is making progress in  providing a physical explanation for consciousness.  

A less partisan view might suggest that the proponents of physicalism aim to weaken our embrace of consciousness, with a strategy of a thousand cuts.

It’s the Lilliputians vs. the big C…….. nolo contendere.  

When will the philosophers awaken from their slumber of materialism….. when will they cease to be mesmerized by a scientism backed with billion dollar budgets?

Yes, at the best possible time.

.

dan wrote:The Stanford SEP has several comprehensive entries pertaining to consciousness.  

One might easily come away with the impression that the philosophical community is making progress in  providing a physical explanation for consciousness.  

A less partisan view might suggest that the proponents of physicalism aim to weaken our embrace of consciousness, with a strategy of a thousand cuts.

It’s the Lilliputians vs. the big C…….. nolo contendere.  

When will the philosophers awaken from their slumber of materialism….. when will they cease to be mesmerized by a scientism backed with billion dollar budgets?  

Yes, at the best possible time.  

.

It when they realise that the physical is a consequence of consciousness, it is not there is any "physical explanation"

The physical 3D We are part of is enabled as a memory supported by consciousness, this is a multi dimensional universe that 3D is just a part of.

hobbit

So…….

Who are we…… from whence did we come, and wither do we go?  

You will note that that the reference is to ‘we’….. not to ‘I’.  

We are nothing, if not part of a community.  

As to the emergence of sapience, there are two stories……. the physical and the mental.  

On the first account, sapience emerged out of the Big Bang and the primordial ooze.  

The alternative is that we emerged from some aboriginal Dreamtime.  

An early proponent of this view was Julian Jaynes with his Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind in 1976.  

Somehow, the Logos emerged from the Mythos……. the Logos providing the launch pad for the ego and its attendant sapience.

An early notice for the nascent sapience was the I Am, the crux of the prophetic tradition.



(cont…….)

"We" do not create consciousness, it creates us and everything in this 3D reality.

Consciousness is what You Dan call God.

Consciousness is detectable in it's method of compression into 3D and how it maintains 3D mass and matter in an eternal chase ( ouroboros) about anything in 3D as a FIELD of consciousness vortex .

The whole of creation is a two way deal with the created receiving information and transmitting information back into the local larger FIELD of consciousness it was created within.

The planet is thus as a living entity, itself been within even larger FIELDS of consciousness.


hobbit

I get it, hobbit, that you are not a personalist.  

You just have to understand that, for those who espouse it, personalism runs deep……. deeper than any religion possibly could.  

You really don’t want to waste your time swimming against that current.  

That day is coming, when the rest of world will awaken and smell the coffee that is personalism……. now we see as through a glass darkly…..

On that day the rest of the world will come to understand that anything short of personalism is a denial of everything that could hold any meaning for us.  

It is a denial of our total being.

If this does not quickly become obvious to you, I can only pray for your soul.

You are simply avowing that there is not a transcendental bone in your body.

How sad for you!



(cont……..)

No Dan,
You don't get it, it is not the human mind, it has very little to do with humans at all.
It is consciousness itself that is the creator of all.

Humans have a huge FIELD of consciousness, but dwarfed by the planets FIELDS of such.

I am simply observing how this operates and relaying this via these words.

It is SIMPLE, really simple . yes We interact with consciousness, but it is also how all other entities operate exactly in the self same manner.

There has never been any big bang rubbish, there is no such force called gravity, time is merely a local consequence in tandem with that called wrongly gravity.

Consciousness implodes into the heart centre where it reverses and spiral back out in the opposite manner, that is what black holes are where the heart centre is observed but there is no signal back as our stupid so called science is all based on one half of the duality of spin of consciousness.


hobbit

hobbit,

In your infinite scheme of things, you claim that we, persons, count for virtually nothing.

The cosmos would barely notice our absence, should we decide to annihilate ourselves.

dan wrote:hobbit,

In your infinite scheme of things, you claim that we, persons, count for virtually nothing.  

The cosmos would barely notice our absence, should we decide to annihilate ourselves.  

Spot on.

Hobbit

Ok, fair enough.  

Most who are physicalists or who otherwise refuse to grant persons any special metaphysical status believe that doing so only brings out the worst in our overbearing natures.

And in many cases they are correct.  

The history of religiously inspired violence makes that a fairly easy case to make.  

A general disregard of Nature is often rampant in such precincts.

One such evangelist was alleged to have stated that Jesus would return only when we had chopped down the last redwood.  

There is no dearth of supportive evidence.  

If such beliefs are the cause of so much depredation, aren’t all well meaning folks obligated to extirpate these beliefs, true or not?  

In general, I would have to agree.  

Darwin faced a similar dilemma, coming from the other side of the controversy….. delaying publication…… well, more recent scholarship suggests the delays were not actually over concerns about public perceptions.  

In the best possible world, it would be virtually by definition that Truth could not be detrimental to the world.  

What could be the case is that partial truths prior to an anticipated revelation could be misunderstood and misused.  

Thus do we also have the notion of a Grand Deception followed by a Great Apostasy.  

God the Deceiver…….. an anathema to all believers!  

Satan/Antichrist is usually posited for just such eventualities.  

There is the passage……..

If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.

Hmmm, suggesting a degree of connivance between the cosmic antagonists.  

At the worst we have God showboating in front of his Creation.  

Is there any doubt that we live in a dramatic universe?  

Would we have it otherwise?  
……………


Enough about God already……..!

Do keep in mind that the best possible God is the minimal God…… the Creatures take on as much of that responsibility as we can possibly handle……. leaving God to put in cameo appearances.  

If Creation is God’s dream, we are the primary dreamers.  God just kicks it off with his primordial observation…….. I am that I am.  

If Truth be hidden, we have decided, sub specie aeternitatis, to hide it from ourselves, for the best possible reasons.  

We are perfectly welcome to second guess ourselves in these matters. Just don’t lay awake nights worrying that we forgot some crucial facet.

I suggest that finding the slack in our Creation is the work of our collective unconscious. In our waking hours we are here to take in the show.



(cont……..)

There has been no concerted pushback against the comprehensive scientific reduction of personhood.  

Immaterialism provides the only avenue for such a response…… radical though it may be.

But the pressure is building….. as with a long dormant volcano.  

There will be a day of reckoning.

What will be the trigger remains obscure.

There is always the chance of global outbreak of a phenomenological nature, but the rationale for such a denouement decreases as the years and decades pass.  

I’m hardly the only one to be fearing that we have already entered upon a global dark night of the soul.



(cont……….)

Obviously humanity is in its Dark Night.

Since we walked away from spirt and embraced abstract materialism as our primary way of knowing.

“Technological metaphors and technical literalisms are undermining the very possibility of experiencing ourselves as persons. We rush headlong into the oblivion of Progress.

Let me be explicit about what I intend. First: What we think of as reality is a restriction, an immense constriction of existence. Second: Scientific materialism is non-sense, and acceptance of its premises leaves us insensate. We must be willing to accept the reality of depth psychology's psyche, of Corbin's mundus imaginalis, of the Soul of the World. Or, if that seems too exotic, recall Blake and Coleridge and the Romantic claims for the primacy of the imagination.

If we want to make sense of the cosmos, of rocks and persons both, we must make moves that seem ridiculous to modern, hard-headed materialists. To recover our senses, our sense of what matters, to breathe once more the life of the world, we must move not toward Matter as we have come to conceive it, as its Masters, but, seemingly, away. We've been pushing matter around for a long time now. It pushes back apocalyptically.”

“If the prophetic tradition is not to conclude with finality in this moment of immeasurably tragic drama, then a means must be found of learning to speak again, of learning to think again, to feel again, of bringing these shattered fragments of a life into some wounded yet living whole. Perhaps it is more than we can hope that we will be able to succeed. And yet there is no question that the attempt must be made. We must try, in the face of all that is darkest in this night of the world, to learn what the Sufis call "the thought of the heart" And we must do this by struggling to learn again the languages of the world.”

—Tom Cheetham “Green Man, Earth Angel”

In Sufi psychology the heart refers to the spiritual heart or qalb, not the physical organ. It is this spiritual heart that contains the deeper intelligence and wisdom. It holds the Divine spark or spirit and is the place of gnosis and deep spiritual knowledge.

It is difficult to ignore the question of why there is something.

A scientist might wish to know……. how is there something.

However, if there must be something, the ‘how’ question loses its force……. if something exists out of necessity, the ‘how’ question becomes otiose…… completely arbitrary.

There must, at least, be a minimal something……. an I Am.  

But this self aware something implies a cosmic schizophrenia.  

There cannot exist just a single, pure subject.  

Yes, to be is to be perceived, and that includes selves.  

Two selves might have sufficed……. two’s a company and three’s a crowd………

Trinitarians might beg to differ.  

And what’s a Creator without a Creation?

But why a Creator?
…………


One cannot progress far into the question of existence without encountering questions of quantity and quality.  

Is there such a thing as a minimal self aware being?

We have already seen that the one necessitates the two…….. if just minimally an imaginary playmate.  

Can our minimal being lack an imagination?  

If not, then how and why could that imagination be restricted?  

Try to imagine a restriction on imagination.  

It is an oxymoron, is it not?

The only way to limit imagination is to invent a physical world or playpen……. an interpersonal arena……. imagine that!  

That’s what we do, in our waking hours!

That our playpen function in any consensual manner, it would have to be the best possible playpen.  

In short, our world is a no brainer.  

If you would like your money back, the manager will see you in her office.  
…………


To whom, then, do we pray?  

To our better angels?  

That would be my best guess.  

And who are our better angels?  

Well, they are just further up our food chain, as we inevitably retrace our way back to the Source/I Am.  

Any other questions?

I think you get the idea.  

And think of all the blood that has been spilt over such simpleminded matters…….. persons will be persons.  
………..



Could there not be more than one Source?

Not if we assume a universal mind/imagination.  

Mathematics provides a modeling ground for the Logos.

It seems like we are fairly well covering the territory.  

And can we imagine a Logos without a Logos Spermatikos……. a cosmic seed?  

Pratītyasamutpāda…….. we are all nest mates……. all hatching and returning together…….. ……. space and time being the ultimate illusions.  
……….



Another small matter of logic………

The accidental and intentional do not mix.  

It’s got to be one or the other.  

Mingling the two would be a Cartesian nightmare.  

If God has done anything, she has numbered every hair on your head…… every grain of sand.

Isn’t that making an awful lot of work…….. for somebody?

Well, physicalists are determinists…… gravitons from every grain of sand interfere with the gravitons from every other grain of sand…… throughout the universe.

That’s putting a mighty big burden on the Logos.

All that the immaterialist has to do is invoke a collective unconscious.



(cont…….)

For myself, I can only say…I have seen the light and the light is all I see.

The questions are all answered and settled.

Have I found my faith again?

All I can say is that I now pray, not to a god, but with being.

I pray with something that called me out of the darkness.

Out of the depths.

It called me, not by name, but through love.

It said worry not how you got here, you are here now.

It told me, we have to work to do and you were born to do this now.

We speak beyond all doubt.

This is a state I wish for all people.

To know beyond a shadow of a doubt why you exist, is simply beyond my words to express.

It is very clarifying to know yourself and why yourself.

The focus is intense, no doubt.

God said you have been given a woman to take care of and that’s why you continue to exist.

Do not forsake her.

For me, it is only about one.

The rest of the world, I must trust to better hands.

You have to make the cosmos small.

You have to shrink it down to make it comprehensible.

I don’t worry about materialists or fundamentalists.

They have to make their own way.

I have to focus on where I AM and what I AM doing.

If one has not been a good steward of the small, they cannot be trusted with more.

Either I will die first or she will, or we both will together.

It doesn’t really matter.

So for me, life has become very simple.

Somehow I know, what we two do together will echo everywhere through time.

How many play out this small drama and fail to see its significance?

I do not claim to be wise, but I can say, I am doing everything I can to honor the life I was given.

I do not seek to convert or convince another how important this moment is.

I can only sing about it.

For me, everything is meaningful.

And I know angels do exist and provide us support.

There is an order to being.

I have an ongoing dialogue with this.

Have I cracked up?!

I cracked all the way open.

To be is to be perceived……. Nothing cannot be perceived, so Nothing cannot exist.  

Does that prove there has to be something……. and what sort of Something?  

If nothing cannot exist, then everything has to exist…… n’est pas?  

Everything is not quite nothing.  

But it is rather like the Vedic conception of Brahman…… the ultimate immaterial……. not unlike Hegel’s Absolute.  

The imagination of every person contains, potentially, Everything.

We are the cosmic Potentates.

There is that of God in everyone of us.  

God is just your minimal person…… we could be no more and no less.

We are all soulmates, because, in the End, there is just one of us…… the cosmic Adam…… also the cosmic Atom…… the cosmic Quantum……  the Logos Spermatikos.  

Could Everything possibly be anything else?  

And what about all those other creatures out there…… the stray dogs and their fleas?  

Should we be kicking them?  

Well, perhaps it is the best outlet for our suppressed anger.  

We wouldn’t want to take it out on God, now would we?  

And, if the dog is asleep , maybe you’d better watch where you place your foot 🦶!  
……….


Yes, quantum gravity is quite the little conundrum……. it keeps the best and brightest awake at night.

When will they throw in the towel?

Not one hour before they’re supposed to…… bless their hearts .



(cont………)

Sometimes Dan can be very clear.

Other times…

It is difficult to dialogue with one like Dan.

But dialogue is the only way to really learn and connect with others.

I was emailing someone today and I wanted to repeat something I said.

The real epidemic today is the loss of meaning.

Since the 17th century and Descartes we have more and more cut our connections to higher states of consciousness, to one another.

We all feel very alienated.

This is surely the cause of the rise of schizophrenia and psychopathy.

This is the cause I think of the epidemic of mental illness being experienced by most people.

It drives drug addiction and political extremism, another kind of drug.

The tribalism today seems to me a symptom of this mental illness.

One must and can only heal themselves.

Participation is the only medicine.

You have to reconnect yourself to the cosmos.

The cosmos is always trying to reconnect with us I have experienced.

If we don’t reconnect, we will tear ourselves into pieces.

Look at our art and culture.

One way to reconnect is to see other human beings are worthy of love and connection.

Look at the forces seeking to sew hatred between groups.

This is the great truth about Trump and the new right.

They enhance anger and division.

This could be a part of healing, because it seems to take great tragedy to wake us up often times.

Perhaps this kind of phenomena speeds up the disease.

Burns it out.

Should we all be checked into an insane asylum?

Perhaps we should.

This world is very painful.

Extremely painful, a kind of hell.

It is painful to watch humans tear each other and themselves apart.

Thinking does not make you human, being here connected does.

We hunger for the sacred.

There are many false teachers taking advantage of those who seek real connection.

The dark night of the soul leads to the reconnecting to the sacred and a rediscovery of meaning.

No guru, politician, or minister can do this for you.

How to know if you are suffering from this disease?

If you hate your neighbor, you are very sick.

If you seek common ground, you are mending well.

Self diagnosis is very difficult.

There is a vaccine for this epidemic.

The Logos is literally imprinted into us.

We could not be aware at all without it.

The end of our current world view will be violent.

Even to live in this hell is a great gift.

My hope has only increased.

Resacralization is the vaccine.

Agnosticism, Absolutism, Atheism, Nihilism, Materialism, or Secular Humanism just ain’t gonna do it.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resacralization_of_knowledge

The healing has started among a few.

We are causing ripples.

It will come to the masses slowly.

Dan,
If You dare kick My dog I would not only kick You I would knock Your head off.
Hey teacher Leave the dogs alone.

I first discovered consciousness whilst dowsing a very rigid and totally fixed system of sort of lines ( they are more akin to sheets, but at our level they are detectable as lines)

I became totally obsessed and driven by these but kept detecting something around them which was not fixed and varied especially in relation to the sun and moon .

I learned myself how to alter what I was thinking of to switch about at will that which I desired to detect.

ThEn one day at a so called Roman hillfort I then discovered how this had a duality of directions and how it LAYERED ON TOP OF ITSELF IN OPPOSITE DIRECTIONS RELATIVE TO GROUND, NO MATTER WHERE THAT GROUND WAS.

I then found Myself almost becoming at one with these flows, and suddenly KNOWING things I had never even heard of, I would start singing and and wandering along following these flows serpentine routes.

I realised that the serpentine routes were in actually symbiotic with the geometry of the lines where adjoining geometric compression points created opposite spin outcomes where the flows ALWAYS followed the routes of least resistance.

Been so obsessed resulted in ever more KNOWING and whatever I concentrated upon found Me.

I had a huge problem in hardly been able to read or write ( still do)
But found that a computer helped.

Consciousness is that which is both imploding into the heart centre of this planet and all living entities and then reverses at the heart centre to then outrush back in the opposite spin direction.

That implosion ( male, god) empowers creation with its opposite outrush (female, mother) and what is used in creation of the implosion has a consequence termed as gravity.

Gravity does not exist, it is a consequence of implosion over outrush and in this planets case that is a fibonacci ratio of 55 over 34.

The moon ratio will be different hence so called gravity is different.

I learn whatever from been in tune with consciousness, then seek comparisons to verify and make sense of that which I know but struggle to describe due to My limited writing abilities.

Just writing this post wears Myself out.


Hobbit

Chivo,

Thanks for the link to Nasr……. I took it all in.  

Despite his participation with Sufism, he strongly leans toward the historical strictures of Islam.  

Personalism and the small world are barely on his horizon…… being a strict monotheist and being a conventional traditionalist….. not being a radical.  

He is out to fix the world, not turn it upside down.  


Hobbit,

I don’t doubt the existence of sacred geometry, nor of Earth magic, dowsing and archeoastronomy found in almost all traditional cultures.  

That I have been unable to explicitly incorporate them into the BPWH is only due to my own limitations.  



(cont………)

Don’t be so quick to dismiss Nasr.

He sees the benefits of perennial philosophy.

He doesn’t say the Islamic path is the only path, only a path.

Fixing it is turning it upside down.

We experience the transcendent and immanent.

There are levels of consciousness.

He moves back and forth between the universal and the particular.

We have lost our way and the meaning of life.

Living heart led is the way back.



You seem to write well enough hobbit.

No one can deny your experience.

We all receive what we need when we need it.

Do we receive it?

It seems to me you are doing just fine.

I feel resonance with you.

I found this passage on Henry Corbin’s thoughts on our Angelic doubles interesting.

Henry Corbin wrote:The Angel ~ Eternal Archetypal Partner In Heaven

One way in to [Corbin's] angelic world is to think of Rilke's angels. Rilke thought that the angels of the Elegies had more in common with the angels of Islam than with the angels of Christian theology in part because their terrifying appearance in mystic visions affirmed the continuity between Heaven and Earth. Corbin . . . believed that the Elegies "formulated exactly, literally" the central themes of the mystic vision that he defended. But let me suggest another way to see what he means. For Corbin, the Person is the first and final reality. This is not idealism, nor realism, nor materialism, and certainly not historicism, but rather "personalism." The person "can neither be deduced nor explained." . . . The individual can only be amplified, not reduced, and the locus of the amplification toward which the person is to be raised is the celestial, eternal counterpart, the partner in heaven, the archetype of each of us that guarantees the possibility of our eternal individuality--the locus, the telos of that spiritual motion is the Angel.

Each of us has a counterpart in Heaven, and if our access to this essential component of our being is severed, we are crippled and incomplete. Corbin says of the great Sufi mystic Ibn' Arabi that he was "and never ceased to be, the disciple of an invisible master, a mysterious prophet figure to whom a number of traditions . . . lend features which relate him or tend to identify him, with Elijah, with Saint George, and still others. Ibn 'Arabi was above all the disciple of Khidr."

The loons shall inherit the earth.