Hello, Cy, hello, OMF II

First topic message reminder :

Testing.......

Yes, it is working.

Congratulations to Cyrellys & Co.!

I will be continuing the BPWH blog from Compass Morainn, which was a continuation from the original OMF site on ProBoards, which is in the process of being re-archived from that site.



(cont.)

To clarify my last statement, in case you are wondering....

The list of Global Elders, would exclude virtually every person currently involved in Exopolitics and the Ufologers Disclosure movement. Wisdom of a Global Elder is not found amoung them. Everyone one of them, even the best, is middle/lower manager. Unqualified for disclosure, at this time.

@Dan, I understand why it would remain prudent that you not be briefed. For one, an ET encounter would shatter your usefulness. And two, it could potentially destroy positive efforts in acclimation.

However besides that, I am persuaded the ET/UT debate should be partially resolved (in fact) amoung a sufficient number of the world's wise, prior to D-Day. In order to increase the probability of a successful global transition.





edit grammar

Jake,

You are assuming partial disclosure. I don't think that would work.

Once we have access to more advanced beings, many of us would demand to know the whole story. Sooner or later, we would pry it out of one or more of them. Haven't you heard of Pamdora's box? We pry open the lid to take a peek, and then, inevitably, the lid is blown right off!

Well, I ought to attend to the concert.......,

I am not assuming "partial disclosure" in the above. "Partial disclosure" has already occurred. I didn't craft the above thoughts in haste. Unlike your response.

You, haven't pried open that box. n'est-ce pas?

Review the above again later.

Enjoy the concert.

Jake Reason wrote: The world simply is not ready. But neither are its Leading Elders of Influence. There is an insufficient number of them to successfully guide humankind. The majority of Global Elders still remain at the speculation stage of understanding, lacking real knowledge required to crystallize wisdom. This is perhaps the biggest problem now facing the world.

The world's Leading Elders, across nation, race, creed and tongue, require this knowledge in order to avoid erroneous speculation, so they may prepare, advise and guide with sound wisdom.

I harness the same feelings on this matter. An outreach must be made to these potential elders. Who they are and selection process should be as transparent as possible.

You say that the Exos' would not qualify for this outreach nor anyone within the community?

How long would you expect these unknown elders to GRASP the nature of what is before us? Psychological aspects intrinsic to each individual may or may not be able to pluck them from their own desolation after the 'man' presents the facts. How many years do you believe it naturally takes, especially one within the religious community would have had their worldview collapsed around them?

Who does qualify in your opinion?

Or do we just stock up on the Elderberries or boysenberries and let them handle the rest?

MD02 wrote:

Jake Reason wrote: The world simply is not ready. But neither are its Leading Elders of Influence. There is an insufficient number of them to successfully guide humankind. The majority of Global Elders still remain at the speculation stage of understanding, lacking real knowledge required to crystallize wisdom. This is perhaps the biggest problem now facing the world.

The world's Leading Elders, across nation, race, creed and tongue, require this knowledge in order to avoid erroneous speculation, so they may prepare, advise and guide with sound wisdom.

I harness the same feelings on this matter. An outreach must be made to these potential elders. Who they are and selection process should be as transparent as possible.

Yes, however 'transparency" is neither required nor advised. "Transparency" is a middle-management concept promoted for increased potential in sound judgment among the lessor experienced. The "wise" do not require such as they can see through the shrouds that individuals and societies wear.

You say that the Exos' would not qualify for this outreach nor anyone within the community?

Yes, not at this time - (pre-public disclosure)
There may be a few Ufologers that may be useful as secondary advisory council, but I am unaware of any who currently qualify as "Global Elders".

How long would you expect these unknown elders to GRASP the nature of what is before us? Psychological aspects intrinsic to each individual may or may not be able to pluck them from their own desolation after the 'man' presents the facts.

When "The Wise" are presented with factual realities, their judgments arise rapidly. The "wise" are experienced with objectifying psychological aspects, highly reducing their personal effect to judgment, to near nil or n/a.

How many years do you believe it naturally takes, especially one within the religious community would have had their worldview collapsed around them?

Within weeks to months, the "wise" would be significantly prepared to soundly guide. And increasing value of judgment would accelerate rapidly thereafter.

Who does qualify in your opinion?

The wise, that all other 'wise' would recognize each other as peers.

------------

My posts above referred to "Global Elders of Influence", meaning global perspectives and global/historical wisdom, with experience in influence. Thus my answers here, are responded within that context.

Jake,

You and I have made different assumptions about what is to be disclosed. And, so, given that the method of disclosure ought to depend upon the content that is to be disclosed, you and I arrived at different views as to the optimal method.

But, wait, Jake, you and I both subscribe to the prophetic tradition. Why, therefore, would we not suppose that this disclosure would follow the pattern of all the previous disclosures, particularly since the J-man appears to have already that it would do so?

Why, in the past, has God chosen to employ prophets? Was this an arbitrary choice, on his part, or is there a rationale?

I'll be happy to come up with a rationale for God........

Now, on several occasions, we are told, God did employ angels to make announcements. And correct me if I am wrong, but these angelic announcements were typically used to bear glad tidings to specific individuals. Well, I'm thinking of Mary and Sarah(?).


Well, pardon me, but, given the balmy weather, it looks like we are heading over to the Blackwater Preserve, on the Eastern shore, for some hiking......

What I mainly wanted to talk about, today, was the putative specialness of humankind in relation to Creation. This is what we may be talking about, on Sunday. Later........

.

Jake Reason wrote:

MD02 wrote:

Jake Reason wrote: The world simply is not ready. But neither are its Leading Elders of Influence. There is an insufficient number of them to successfully guide humankind. The majority of Global Elders still remain at the speculation stage of understanding, lacking real knowledge required to crystallize wisdom. This is perhaps the biggest problem now facing the world.

The world's Leading Elders, across nation, race, creed and tongue, require this knowledge in order to avoid erroneous speculation, so they may prepare, advise and guide with sound wisdom.

I harness the same feelings on this matter. An outreach must be made to these potential elders. Who they are and selection process should be as transparent as possible.

Yes, however 'transparency" is neither required nor advised. "Transparency" is a middle-management concept promoted for increased potential in sound judgment among the lessor experienced. The "wise" do not require such as they can see through the shrouds that individuals and societies wear.

You say that the Exos' would not qualify for this outreach nor anyone within the community?

Yes, not at this time - (pre-public disclosure)
There may be a few Ufologers that may be useful as secondary advisory council, but I am unaware of any who currently qualify as "Global Elders".

How long would you expect these unknown elders to GRASP the nature of what is before us? Psychological aspects intrinsic to each individual may or may not be able to pluck them from their own desolation after the 'man' presents the facts.

When "The Wise" are presented with factual realities, their judgments arise rapidly. The "wise" are experienced with objectifying psychological aspects, highly reducing their personal effect to judgment, to near nil or n/a.

How many years do you believe it naturally takes, especially one within the religious community would have had their worldview collapsed around them?

Within weeks to months, the "wise" would be significantly prepared to soundly guide. And increasing value of judgment would accelerate rapidly thereafter.

Who does qualify in your opinion?

The wise, that all other 'wise' would recognize each other as peers.

------------

My posts above referred to "Global Elders of Influence", meaning global perspectives and global/historical wisdom, with experience in influence. Thus my answers here, are responded within that context.

"the Wise"? this term refers not to elites but to those participating in the Collective Consciousness - Kenning (the knowing). Sort of a messed up term to use for the Elites to which you refer - Influence.

I often agree with you Jake, but here I cannot. This you describe above is just more of the Elitism which is about to tear this planet apart at its roots. This rift is more dangerous than Contact. Feeding the Rift - it is shear stupidity.

As far as how you go about pre-Disclosure: you need a tipping point and that happens to begin at 3% of the population...the part of the population which drives forward...see my quote on the Forum Index. There is a reason ETs & UTs have focused on laymen individuals (outside of the Grey Group acts).

Both ETs & UTs have instructed: "disclose to you population" this wasn't an Elite only suggestion...let us not forget the part, "or else we'll do it for you."

Cy

Hat Tip to Ron...remember politics is a double-edged sword that swings both ways and Rome is a rats nest swimming in it...but then you don't remember homes burning in their name beneath promises of peace. Round and round the mulberry bush the monkey chases the weasel...

CY

I was thinking the same thing - more elitism. That is why I asked again. Top down approach with 2nd tier too educate? It does make sense on certain levels except for (who) these mysterious ones would be and (who) is feeding them the scoop of the ages.

MD02 wrote: CY

I was thinking the same thing - more elitism. That is why I asked again. Top down approach with 2nd tier too educate? It does make sense on certain levels except for (who) these mysterious ones would be and (who) is feeding them the scoop of the ages.

Yes certainly not a round table of all parties/groups it would seem. Guarantees we don't approach this with all resources and faculties? Ensuring the current 21st Century habit of the three Control Contexts of this Era: Fear, Doctrine, and the Human Condition. Or so it seems. Same ol' Sh*t different day.

Shrug. Cy

**Shut my website down and I'll create three new ones X'3rd power; shut the internet down and I will take my people and introduce them to the Golden Spike Project and we will be back in business in short order. Control isn't the solution. The only Control ever held is what is given freely and held in trust. All else is skating on thin ice.

***A leader leads only by consent of the People. Can two parties occupy a single space disconnected? Yes Indeed; where one or more delusion exists.

The Mind is of itself and can make a Heaven of Hell or a Hell of Heaven. Miltion, Paradise Lost.

Cyrellys wrote:"the Wise"? this term refers not to elites but to those participating in the Collective Consciousness - Kenning (the knowing).

Yes

Sort of a messed up term to use for the Elites to which you refer - Influence.

No
I do not understand why 'influence' must = Elites?
This is not how I have defined "the Wise" in my posts.

As far as how you go about pre-Disclosure: you need a tipping point and that happens to begin at 3% of the population...the part of the population which drives forward...see my quote on the Forum Index. There is a reason ETs & UTs have focused on laymen individuals (outside of the Grey Group acts).

Both ETs & UTs have instructed: "disclose to you population" this wasn't an Elite only suggestion...let us not forget the part, "or else we'll do it for you."

You are talking about process and so was I. However, you are speaking here about general process of disclosure(over view). And this may be considered speculative and some of it may be erroneous. Whereas my comments were specifically addressing narrowly defined aspects of the pre-Disclosure process (before world leaders announce).

...there is an obligation of historical proportions, that 'hidden knowledge' should be shared with globally sufficient representation of humanity to aid in a successful transition.

There is an insufficient number of them [Leading Elders of Influence] to successfully guide humankind. The majority of Global Elders still remain at the speculation stage of understanding, lacking real knowledge required to crystallize wisdom. This is perhaps the biggest problem now facing the world.

The world's Leading Elders, across nation, race, creed and tongue, require this knowledge in order to avoid erroneous speculation, so they may prepare, advise and guide with sound wisdom.

According to Dan (as per Ron et al?), there were approx only 200 people on earth who had been briefed as of a few years ago.

What I am saying, is that is not enough. And "briefed" in most cases would not be enough either. Dan is briefed, but still speculates about ET's or UT's, Old or New earth. And that of course is a long way from "knowing".

If D-Day occurred next week, the world would go into melt-down. And all of us who are prepared could tell them, "be calm, its not bad, let me explain" until we are blue in the face, and the world would not listen.

And this imo is directly because there is an insufficient number of Global Leading Elders who know what is going on, and therefore unable to prepare, advise and guide with sound wisdom. A Pre-Disclosure world! let alone a Post-Disclosure world.

--------

I hope this helps further clarify.

dan wrote:Jake,

You and I have made different assumptions about what is to be disclosed. And, so, given that the method of disclosure ought to depend upon the content that is to be disclosed, you and I arrived at different views as to the optimal method.

Yes I understand. No worries.

But, wait, Jake, you and I both subscribe to the prophetic tradition. Why, therefore, would we not suppose that this disclosure would follow the pattern of all the previous disclosures, particularly since the J-man appears to have already that it would do so?

Why, in the past, has God chosen to employ prophets? Was this an arbitrary choice, on his part, or is there a rationale?

As I have clarified, I'm talking about revelation from Man to Man. From those men who have first hand knowledge to those who know not.

Yes, ET/UT Disclosure from themselves to Man, has been revealed in a similar process as from God to Man - (limited selected people, who then tell others). So what? Is there any other way?

ET/UTs do not present themselves as the Creator of the Cosmos and all therein.

It is up to man, what to be done with what is revealed.

Cy and Jake,

What neither of you seem to grasp is that, IMHO, the impending disclosure is meant to be of a spiritual sort. Given the overwhelmingly materialist bias of our modern culture, any disclosure at all that involves beings that are less materially oriented than are we, would, to a very large measure, be focussed upon the spiritual dimension of our difference. To be more specific, the disclosure would necessarily focus upon their relationship with the Creator, upon the histories of their own prophetic traditions.

The second order of disclosure business would focus on the means and ends of our continuing communication with these other beings.

But it is just at this point, Cy and Jake, that the cosmic logistics starts to run off the rails........

Firstly, we must guard against the likelihood of a further fragmentation of human civilization, as the various ET/UT factions vie for our allegiance, and we, individually, for theirs.

And, I think we can stop right there...........

From day one, ufologists have assumed that, as below, so above. As there is a continuing struggle for survival, down here, so there must be up there. But even this does not make sense.........

1.) On the competition model, it is difficult to make sense of the apparent efficacy of the Prime Directive wrt the Earth. Some unified supreme authority must be posited to explain that very long term efficacy.

2.) We have, even with our primitive technology in weapons and communications, found the need and the means for enforcing a rather effective Convention on the High Seas. It is difficult to believe that our various kinds of visitors would not have been able to fashion similarly effective treaties, if only for their own self-preservation. Such treaties would certainly include joint protocols governing the restrictions on interactions with 'virgin' or developing planets, such as the Earth.

Surely, these protocols, as they have been developed over billions of years, would have worked out highly sophisticated methods of acclimation and disclosure wrt to these nascent civilizations.




(cont.)

Dan, of course I grasp the spiritual dimension of Disclosure. I've been supporting that position since my first post on-line, seven years ago.

However, you are suggesting that those who know, are the most spiritually prepared people on earth and are guiding the disclosure process in the most Godly and wisest manner possible.

The mere fact that the world is not yet ready for D-Day, confirms this position is inaccurate, erroneous and misguided.

I have presented a pre-disclosure solution, that the "insiders" are obligated to seriously consider.

Jake,

Now, please bear with me, while we struggle through a 'complete' disclosure scenario, albeit in a very condensed fashion...........

At this point, I'm only assuming that there are both ET's and UT's involved in the disclosure process, and that there has evolved a highly sophisticated and unified protocol for acclimation and disclosure.

I don't think we have to be rocket scientists to understand that there will be disclosure issues of various priorities. The #1 question on everyone's mind will be......

#1...... Who are we, from whence did we come, and whither do we go?

Am I right about this, Jake?

If the visitors, after billions of years and billions of actual cases, have not come up with very cogent and complete answers to these simple questions, along with a great deal of supporting evidence, we will have every reason to harbor doubts as to their competence and/or integrity.

Are you still with me, Jake?

But, already, we have a big problem with the protocol for disclosure.......

Nay, we have a big problem with the protocol for the Acclimation that should have led up to the Disclosure. Namely.......

#2....... How did the Acclimation process coincide and/or conflict with the Prophetic and/or the Scientific processes?

Should this not then be the next question on all of our minds?

Does it not appear that the Acclimation process, be it spiritually and/or scientifically oriented, has been....... well, evidently lacking in coordination? Yes?


Right off the bat, with question #2, it appears that the visitors have a lot of explaining to do. How can they possibly gain our confidence and trust, based on their track record, up to this point?

Very frankly, Jake, the simple answer is...... no way, Jose!

Any fool could and would see that, already, the Visitors had screwed up, royally! How can we possibly explain this cosmic Snafu?

Clearly, whoever has been running our cosmic acclimation program is either incompetent or sociopathic. No?


12:22-----------

OR....... just maybe, we have been thinking about acclimation and disclosure with a faulty set of presuppositions.

From: Dan Smith 
Date: December 4, 2012 12:34:20 PM EST
To: Ronald 
Subject: Re: Assistance with Introduction

I have already posted this correspondence, with appropriate elisions. 

I did make a brief and direct response in that same posting, yesterday.  As it is, I continue to address, each day, the issues that are foremost in my mind.  They are posted on a public forum so that everyone has equal access.  Should anyone in Rome, or elsewhere, desire a private consultation wrt eschatology, I would have to take that under advisement, since there has been no such previous request. 

In the meantime, of course, anyone may pose any question, under whatever is the desired degree of anonymity.  

cc: OMF II 

IMHO, withstanding any and all suggestions to the contrary, there is only one way to explain this Cosmic SNAFU/TACFU......... and seeing as how I am the only human with the independent means and two advanced degrees in physics and minimally adequate PtB connections to be playing the Acclimation/Disclosure game, and also supposing that I have been recruited to this effect, in lieu of any and all Visitors....... Here is my, oh so humble, explanation for this SNAFU/TACFU.......


12:56 (10') conversation..........

He had not seen my response to the previous email. He relies upon John S. to forward to him my relevant posts, however......... John, in preparation for his trip with R&A to I, G & K, is, very diligently, trying to preconsume his three week quota of alcohol, seeing as how he will be observing the Muslim protocol for that duration. There will first be a meeting with 'the Bishops', and then, a fortnight later, will be the meeting with PB. He seemed satisfied with my three-paragraph response. He will keep me in the loop, if there are any further questions.

I am attempting to contact John S, so that we may exchange further observations.


1:40-----------

Back to my apologetics wrt our seeming lack of proper acclimation for the cosmic Disclosure......




(cont.)

dan wrote:
11:17----------
Jake,

Now, please bear with me, while we struggle through a 'complete' disclosure scenario, albeit in a very condensed fashion...........

>

12:22-----------

OR....... just maybe, we have been thinking about acclimation and disclosure with a faulty set of presuppositions.

Yes, yes, yes, there are many concerns and paradigms that most serious studiers are still working and learning to catch up to. So continue on as you are musing if you feel so compelled.

While you think it through and write it down, eventually you will arrive to conclude the same advisory I have presented. It is the next required stage in the pre-disclosure acclimation process.

If this is soon undertaken in prudence, we may still have time to significantly reduce global chaos. The wise will understand.


-------------

I am coming close to the end of my time on public forums. These past few pages, form part of my concluding comments from nearly sevens years of daily participation in this venue of communication. Having been so prepared; In-person communications, both public and private, is now a more suitable way for me to serve.

Jake,

Hold that thought, but I don't think we are quite through with you, yet. In as much as you may still be partially compos-mentos, you should not contemplate an early retirement, not until we have found a proper replacement for you. I will be the first to let you know when your replacement has been secured.


Ok, should we not include certain Bishops and PB as amongst those of us with a need to be briefed about the impending Disclosure? Who else would you wish to be included on this list? Presumably, BHO would be briefed. Which other heads of state ought to be included?


2:40------------

And, besides the Pope and some of the heads of State, Jake would also like us to brief the Elders, whomever they might be.

But, wait, who is to brief whom?



(cont.)

dan wrote:Jake,

Hold that thought, but I don't think we are quite through with you, yet. In as much as you may still be partially compos-mentos, you should not contemplate an early retirement, not until we have found a proper replacement for you. I will be the first to let you know when your replacement has been secured.

You have a voice mail from my new phone.

Ok, should we not include certain Bishops and PB as amongst those of us with a need to be briefed about the impending Disclosure? Who else would you wish to be included on this list? Presumably, BHO would be briefed. Which other heads of state ought to be included?

I believe appropriate Bishops have been briefed. You may recall, Clark McClelland's witness testimony was personally received and taken by a Bishop? to Rome. This was confidential for some time, however he has since made it public.

"Heads of State" are complicated with compromise, as you know. I would think a sufficient number are briefed at this time. Most of them are temporary Leaders. They are probably best briefed after they retire, provided they have appropriate intention to utilize their influence toward successful global acclimatization.

It is the "wise council" base of people that should to be expanded. quote: The majority of Global Elders still remain at the speculation stage of understanding, lacking real knowledge required to crystallize wisdom. [They] require this knowledge in order to avoid erroneous speculation, so they may prepare, advise and guide with sound wisdom.

And mankind requires this representation across nation, race, creed and tongue, in order to enhance and insure the potential effectiveness, through the transitional period of global awareness and adjustment.

Thank you for the clarification Jake. In that context yes I agree.

It is the "wise council" base of people that should to be expanded. quote: The majority of Global Elders still remain at the speculation stage of understanding, lacking real knowledge required to crystallize wisdom. [They] require this knowledge in order to avoid erroneous speculation, so they may prepare, advise and guide with sound wisdom.

And mankind requires this representation across nation, race, creed and tongue, in order to enhance and insure the potential effectiveness, through the transitional period of global awareness and adjustment.

Yes this is in progress but could use an uptick in speed.

@Dan,

I'm the last person to miss the spiritual end of this. But functionally this is going to begin materially and will have to proceed at its own pace through the evolutionary process which adds/allows the extra-dimensions.

@ Jake...you of all people should know as well as I that there is no retirement from the Contact Paradigm, whether you are mediating, facilitating, or mentoring. Need will dictate the nature and extension of involvement and none of us individually dictate what that is or is not.

I have just gotten off of a nearly three-hour phone conversation with Jake.

We do still have some fundamental differences, and I'm trying to remember what they were.......

1.) The issue of salvation..... Jake believes that many or most of our souls will need to be recycled. I agree. In fact, I believe that all of our souls have been recycled 10^10 times.

2.) Noah's ark was or was not a time-machine...... I had some difficulty in attempting to persuade Jake that this possibility was not entirely implausible. He stated that my view was contrary to the traditionally accepted understanding of the Flood. He believes in a literal and local flood, and in a literal interpretation of Noah's ark.


But, wait, let's cut to the chase....... since he was 19 years old, in 1976, Jake has been laboring under the impression that he would be meeting with the Elders, concerning Disclosure.

My counter-offer to him was that Ron could help to arrange for us to have a three hour segment on C2C, preferably the day after Christmas, as did Gary and I have, two years ago.

Nonetheless, Jake does expect to have personal consultations with the Elders. I have no problem with that, but I, personally, do not feel that need. I would do my utmost to accommodate that need.

What was our next biggest difference? We did not get around to discussing the actual eschatology and the relation of the visitors thereto, except indirectly. We both agree that there will be a Rapture that involves something on the order of 10^8 of us, or 1-2% of our present population. When will this Rapture be? I think we both agree that it will occur within the next thousand years.

It seems that the possibility of Noah's ark being a time-machine is still a possible difference between us.


I now have a call into Jack's friend, and cameraperson, Kim B, lensman137. And I'm scheduled to speak with John S, at 8.




(cont.)

While we did discuss the issues you mention Dan, you have an imaginative interpretation of my positions. I understand why Ron may take issue with some of what you say about him.

I expressed that if I were asked to select people to be briefed with direct insider knowledge, I would not include myself among those who should be briefed. Which would exclude me from doing any briefing.

I found your Noah's Ark time-machine story to be very funny to talk about it. But recall you found my laughing to be somewhat disrespectful of your considerations. At least now I understand how you constructed that hypothesis.

19 in '76? close enough for horseshoes. However meeting "Elders" concerning disclosure didn't occur to me until around 2007.

C2C? this might be helpful. Christians need to be extended permission to discuss disclosure and its implications to their faith, while they move through a process of theological adaptation. And people of no particular faith need be aware of how and why religion will influence and effect the world during this process. Understanding the Christian quagmire would be helpful to both believer and unbeliever alike.

I'm open to the possibility of participating on a C2C show.

>

We talked for 3 hours? Yes apparently so. We discussed perhaps 20-30 other related topics. You sure are persistent, Dan

Cyrellys wrote:@ Jake...you of all people should know as well as I that there is no retirement from the Contact Paradigm, whether you are mediating, facilitating, or mentoring. Need will dictate the nature and extension of involvement and none of us individually dictate what that is or is not.

Very well said, and so very true.

Thank you Cyrellys

Jake Reason wrote:

Cyrellys wrote:@ Jake...you of all people should know as well as I that there is no retirement from the Contact Paradigm, whether you are mediating, facilitating, or mentoring. Need will dictate the nature and extension of involvement and none of us individually dictate what that is or is not.

Very well said, and so very true.

Thank you Cyrellys

@Jake

I nodded my head ever so reluctantly in agreement when I read Cy's insights. Still, with that said - there is nothing wrong with time in the wilderness with nothing but private thoughts. I will ask you question, asked many moons ago – How long would you last within your walls of faith (church) if you opened the doors to your heart about your feelings on this issue uncensored?

Still, much work to be done, it seems.

Speaking of thoughts - what of 'theirs'? Surely they must love and succumb to errors of judgment. What of forgiveness - do they seek it? Is their apparent curiosity for us a culmination of all regards?

I agree with your premise of guidance. Still, with that said, how many would be required to aid a world? Those elders would also have to study in secrecy, biding their time, until an official announcement; otherwise they would be stripped from those lofty seats in earnest. Can we all agree on some level that ‘secrecy’ is a dirty word these days?

Besides, Dan still needs a replacement. I feel this may be a silent admission on his part - that he would miss you.

Who will council those Elders that when when faced with those who would strip them of their seats for speaking that they must stand and fight? That failure to do so is not an option? So much of the human condition on the matter of Contact we face today is due to the failure of those fated to speak to hold their ground against all assault.

Three reasons for speaking, come what may: for instruction against ignorance, council against strife, and Truth against harmful falsehood.

Three measuring rods of every person: their dreams, their fears, and their unconcern.

Who among them have the heroes portion of diligence, integrity, and bold design? Who among those can wield those swords to create the necessary Liberty and Virtue out of bad position in the Human Condition?

Great ships know their power, know their wisdom, and must be manned by crew who know their time.

Jake,

I very much enjoyed our lengthy conversation. It is very helpful for me to have that more personal form of communication. And, yes, I am sure that we still have many significant differences in our views.



But allow me to digress upon an idea that just recently occurred to me concerning the relativity of existence. This seems like such an obvious point that I am surprised that it did not occur to me earlier.......

It is simply this...... Physical existence is predicated upon location. It is like that saying in real-estate...... location, location, location! But what is location?

Location is a point in four-dimensional space. This is how location is designated in physics. What more need be said? Well, it is a question of what is left unsaid. Unstated is the obvious fact that location can be designated only by a sapient observer. We have all seen those display maps with the red dot and the caption: 'You are here.' But most maps are portable, and so they don't have that helpful red dot. Well, come to think of it, the maps on our smart phones do come with a blue dot, but we could still use them without that additional information.

But what about a merely sentient observer? How do their locations differ from ours? Doesn't the soaring eagle have a built-in blue dot, as it gazes down upon the countryside? Well, there is one innocuous seeming difference in that we can be sure that the eagle would never confuse the map with the territory, something of which we sapients are sometimes accused.

And why should maps have anything to say about existence? Are they not perfectly mute? Ok, then, here we go........

Let us ponder the existence of atoms...... you know, those little things that go swerving in the dark. We have no problem supposing that our universe is filled with those little critters. But suppose that we are talking about an inter-galactic atom of hydrogen. We know they must be out there, and sometimes we can even see their absorption spectra. We are content to ascribe to them the same reality that we ascribe to ourselves. But wait a minute......

Of what does that reality consist? Is there any reason for us to wonder whether that atom's existence might be conditional? I am suggesting that, very unconsciously, we may be projecting our own existence onto that of the atom's. Whoa......! Are we not supposing, along with Thomas Nagel, that there must be something like what it would be to be that atom? Can we even think about that atom, without somehow projecting ourselves into that icy void? In our minds there is a map or photograph of the galaxies, with a little red arrow pointing to the atom.

Sure. Is there any problem with that? Hmmm....... That is how and where the atom would exist...... from our PoV. But that little codicil or caveat may not be completely innocuous. If we were not here, what difference could that make to our intergalactic atom? Is it not quite oblivious to our existence? Should it not be? Hmmm...... again..... maybe it shouldn't be quite so oblivious. Aren't we assuming that the atom could have its own PoV? Isn't that kind of what existence is about.... the possibility of having a PoV, as hypothetical as that might be?

We humans are just very generous, very extroverted in ascribing...... no...... in sharing our personal PoV's with all and sundry, with anything that might ever come to mind.

Ok, so let's take that same little atom and transpose it into a universe that is devoid of all sapience and sentience. Should there be anything problematic with that? Hmmm........ Could I be so impertinent as to ask where it is, within that unobservable universe? Well, you say, it could just be anyplace it wanted to be. That does a tad anthropomorphic. Ok, then, it just is wherever it happens to be. Hmmm.........


I'm headed out lunch with Sam and Craig Dilworth's daughter....... over from Sweden......

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