Hello, Cy, hello, OMF II

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Congratulations to Cyrellys & Co.!

I will be continuing the BPWH blog from Compass Morainn, which was a continuation from the original OMF site on ProBoards, which is in the process of being re-archived from that site.



(cont.)

Yes, Jake, I thank you again for this find, coming via the Discovery Institute, of Nagel's book. BTW, I was unable to find a reference to Nagel, on the DI website.

Later, yesterday, I was focusing on 'neutral monism', particularly on this section of the SEP article, where reference is made to Russell's bizarre notion of 'centrifugal realism'. In his later work, he adds a 'proximal' model to this earlier 'distal' model.

It appears likely that there will be considerable overlap between NM and immaterialism. Here I find numerous examples of speculations that I should be trying to avoid. There should also be some useful insights coming from Anomalous Monism. BTW, although I am a great fan of the breadth of Wiki, if you want more depth, in philosophical matters, the SEP is your goto place.

My main brief against NM is its denial of relations, in general, and of the self, in particular. I need to get a better grasp the motivations behind those denials. Is it simply to do with its denial of the soul?

The way that the self is obviated within NM is mainly by reference to associationism or to a bundle theory. In the SEP, this topic is covered under the rather obscure heading of Tropes. Associationism has generally been discredited within psychology, having been too closely 'associated' with behaviorism. Using another descriptor is a way of coving those tracks.

Besides being anti-self/soul, the NMers, including Nagel, are also anti-essentials/universals, and, so, anti-Platonic, in general. A strict monist, like myself, is, perforce, anti-particular, although, the (optimal!) 10^10 reincarnations of the cosmic Soul, does seem to give ample obeisance to individuality, even, or especially, within the eternal context of our ouroboric CTC. No?

It may be right here, with the soul/self, that we come to the crux of the argument between theism and pantheism/panpsychism. Strict pantheists should, strictly speaking, deny the soul/self and all other essences. And strict Buddhists do so deny, but that form of austere nihilism is very hard to maintain within any social context, whatsoever. And even my sister, Louise, was adamant about her belief in the soul.

There must be a glue that holds the world together. No? What can that be, besides love? And what can love be, besides a relation between free individuals? Thus do we start with the eternal triangle of the Trinity, wherein the third person is the glue. No?

We have three persons in one substance, and what can that substance/glue be, other than love?

What then of our furry friends? They orbit within the pale of our love. Mosquitos? They fill the interstices of that love. They are a necessary part of the logical, anthropic glue. If they did not exist, I'd hate to think what might fill that niche.


12:45----------

And then there is this..... Trope Bundles and Sheaf Theory.




(cont.)

You are a busy philosopher, Dan. Too much for me to dig into, though.

I too am somewhat stumped as to why Nagel stopped short of the soul. Perhaps his own questions will lead him home.


----------------

I just watched President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's entire address to the 67th UN General Assembly 2012.

Here

A surprising speech. I can find little fault in it. He basically verbalized the hopes and dreams of all mankind. And he described the political world's dilemmas, failings and causes fairly accurately. And appealed for U.N. reform.

I could nit-pic a few things, but nothing significant.

'hypocrisy' is perhaps the only serious fault in it. However with all the false propaganda being forced upon the world, it's hard to truly discern how much 'hypocrisy' may be implied in his address.

He received generous applause, which imo was earned.

And the world turns....

Thanks, Jake, I'm listening to it, now.......

So far, after 11', there are no references to eschatology.....

I have to run an errand........

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/27/world/united-nations-general-assembly.html?hp



(cont.)

dan wrote:Thanks, Jake, I'm listening to it, now.......

So far, after 11', there are no references to eschatology.....

He introduces Islamic prophecy at the end. Speaking highly of Jesus, and being a co-Saviour of the world in co-op with the Mahdi. (my paraphrasing)

You know I could nit-pic that, but....
....it's surely not a big enough contention to start WW-III over. Shame on self proclaimed Christians who would think otherwise.

Yes, his discourse on the Mahdi and Jesus begins at 30'..........

Several times he mentions that the imminent Savior will put an end to ignorance. If this is not the SoT, then what is it?

So far, I've looked at two transcripts, and they do not seem to follow the live speech. In particular, the UN translator, on the above video link, seems to use the French word, 'esprit', several times, which is only used twice, as 'spirit', in the transcript. Is there a possible link with the SoT?

I'm at the 33min mark in the above video. Here is my rough transcript......

>>> The arrival of the ultimate savior, Jesus Christ, and the righteous(?), will bring about an eternally bright future for mankind, not by force.......


5:15--------

It is clear that his actual speech deviated significantly from his prepared remarks, not, in itself, an unusual occurance.

>>> .... not by force, but through thought, awakening and developing kindness in everyone.....

>>> .... Their arrival will breathe new life into the frozen heart and body of the world. He will bless........

>>> .... will bless humanity with a strength(?) that will put an end to our winter of ignorance.....

>>> .... poverty and war. With his tidings of a season of blooming, he puts an end to our winter of ignorance poverty and war.

Notice the possibly unscripted repetition, although he appears to be reading from a transcript, but not the official that was published before the talk.


6:30----------

Next he seems to be talking about a 'spring'........ Has this any reference to the so-called Arab Spring? He has mentioned this, earlier.


6:55---------

33:40----- He puts an end to the winter of ignorance of humanity......

>>> .... Now we can sense the sweet sense..... and the soulful breeze of the spring that has just begun...... and that does not belong to specific race.....

>>> .... nation, ethnicity or religion. A spring that will soon reach Europe.....

>>> .... Africa and America. He will be the spring (strength?) of the justice seekers........

>>> .... freedom lovers, and followers of the heavenly prophets..... (34:15)

>>> .... of all humanity..... join hands with empathy and cooperation for his eventual arrival..... (34:27)

>>> .... in harmony and unity..... Let us march on this man(?!) .... in joy and grace....

>>> .... long live this Spring... long live this Spring .... and, again and again, long live this Spring..... (34:37).

And that was the end of his talk. What are we to make of this?



(cont.)

You made a few errors and missed words in your transcription, Dan. I trust you won't mind me to sync it with the spoken translator as recorded...

------------------------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHyvkQpqQTE

Start at 32:54


>>> The arrival of the ultimate savior, Jesus Christ and the righteous, will bring about an eternally bright future for mankind. Not by force or waging wars, but through thought, awakening and developing kindness in everyone.

Their arrival will breathe a new life in the cold and frozen hearts and body of the world. He will bless humanity with a strength that puts an end to our winter of ignorance, poverty and war. With the tidings of a season of blooming, he puts an end to the winter of ignorance for humanity.

Now we can see, and we can sense the sweet scent and the soulful breeze of the spring. A spring that has just begun and doesn't belong to a specific race, ethnicity, nation or a region. A spring that will soon reach all the territories in Asia, Europe, Africa, and America. He will be the spring of all, the justice seekers, freedom lovers, and the followers of heavenly prophets. He will be the spring of humanity and the greenery of all Asia's.

Let us join hands and clear the way for his eventual arrival, with empathy and cooperation in harmony and unity. Let us march on this path to salvation for the thirsty souls of humanity today's immortal joy and grace.

Long live this Spring. Long live this Spring. And again and again, long live this Spring.

Thank you, Jake. I think you got it!

So when will we get this in print?

So far, the US reports have been negative, just following the status quo....

I wonder if there will be any Christian response. I'll wager that < 0.1% of westerners realize that the Mahdi is expected to return with Jesus.

dan wrote:Thank you, Jake. I think you got it!

So when will we get this in print?

So far, the US reports have been negative, just following the status quo....

I wonder if there will be any Christian response. I'll wager that < 0.1% of westerners realize that the Mahdi is expected to return with Jesus.

I'm sure you would win that wager.

We won't see this in print. The current propaganda war wouldn't permit it. Only two countries politically boycotted his speech, the USA and Canada. Israel wasn't there either, but it was Yom Kippur, so they weren't present for any meetings that day.

Yom Kippur - the Day of Atonement. Ohhh the irony. Convenient too. wink-wink

This part of the speech is most surprising. If the first two paragraphs were spoken from the pulpit of any Christian Church, it would be well received by all, regardless of denomination. I find it hard to think this a coincidence.

A most Peculiar script. There is probably no other Muslim country leader who would word such a statement. Is it an olive branch? My prophetic ponderings are being challenged. I have an odd feeling that the Vatican will quietly pass on an emissary note to Tehran. One that acknowledges in kindness.

Here we stand on the brink of war, with the US and British countries (prophetically Ephraim and Manasseh) starring down at their foe. And then Persia makes such a statement in the midst of a brewing storm?

Wow

Ahmadinejad's speech to the UN, provides an excuse to revisit one of my favorite puzzles.... the briefing problem.......

Who has a need to know about the Visitors and their Disturbing message, assuming that they and it even exist? At one point, I was even keeping count, until the count got up to about a thousand, as per KG. According to KG, the Presidential briefings are both ad hoc and ad hominem, he having debriefed three of them, upon their retirement.

Besides the POTUS, the DCI and a very few ranking Senators, there would also be the Mossad, the Vatican and MI6, wherein two or three top officers would be included. There would be a degree of trickle-down from there. Russia and China might have their own sources, and then they would share with us. Certain media moguls might be included. Bill Gates?

What about a hostile power, like Iran? Muslims might also have an 'independent' source or two. If the BPWH was not too far off the mark, then the briefings would likely be more extensive.

Need to know? For the sake of global security, it would likely be beneficial to have a few, very strategically placed individuals be on the same cosmic page. In case of an emergency, there would exist a baseline from which to launch a wider dissemination.

Did Ahmadinejad get briefed and then go rogue? I doubt it. I can speculate that he might have been given a special role to play, tailored to the cultural tensions that exist in the Middle East. His UN talk may have been very carefully calibrated to meliorate that situation. I get the feeling that he was encouraged to push that envelope, in a particular way, based on considerations of timing, etc. Islam will have a very delicate role to play, in what may be about to ensue.

MJ12 cannot be an entirely passive group. They do need to be kept actively participating in a very meaningful fashion. Playing a major role in overseeing the briefing process would likely be their primary responsibility.

Also, that process likely operates as a ratchet. You can dial it up, but it is rather more difficult to dial it back. That process passed a point of no return, early in its inception. The brake peddle remains firmly engaged, but the momentum is inexorable. There was alleged to have been an abortive disclosure, back in 1991. The Aviary was cut out and cut loose, which provided a significant cover for R&D, one might suppose. Otherwise, there has always been an endgame, in those cards. The sunset provision was always understood. The fine-tuning was managed on a case by case basis.

I do not find it implausible that the JFK assassination played an essential role in the calibration of the graduated disclosure system, if such there be. It would have provided an unmistakable marker. It was a measure of the stakes involved. 9/11? That too..... another global calibration point, a shifting of gears. Are we all together, now, for the raising of the curtain? Does Mahmoud provide a crucial signal? It is not something that I can ignore.




(cont.)

Hi Jake, Dan, MD and everyone. Jake yes 42 is a nice birthday number, thank you. I've spent a small part of the day pleasantly surprised at the hundreds of birthday wishes from the internet world that has flowed in over the last several days. The rest of my day has been spent with the kids (we took the day off from homeschooling) and we put part of it into the ranch to do some much needed fall cleaning before lambing and kidding seasons return. Beyond that it is the usual monitoring of global events and events unnoticed by the mainstream population within our own nation. A peaceful day so far.

dan wrote:Ahmadinejad's speech to the UN, provides an excuse to revisit one of my favorite puzzles.... the briefing problem.......

Who has a need to know about the Visitors and their Disturbing message, assuming that they and it even exist? At one point, I was even keeping count, until the count got up to about a thousand, as per KG. According to KG, the Presidential briefings are both ad hoc and ad hominem, he having debriefed three of them, upon their retirement.

I often wonder why I was informed of this. (not via you)

Why did I awake one morning Nov 2005, with the thought coming from far-out left field.... "I wonder if that guy who claimed he was abducted, whose logging buddies supporting it, has ever posted anything on the internet?" I wasn't a ufologer at the time. The question/thought seemed so out of the ordinary, I felt compelled to follow through and do a search, and rescheduled my work responsibilities. That day, I discovered an obscure story - 'Serpo'.

It subsequently changed the direction of my life's attention.

One other time, this kind of thing happened to me (years before)..... One morning I arose and got ready for work. And somehow I felt a compulsion to turn on the TV, as there was News of some sort. I have no idea why I thought that. And I almost never turned on the TV in the AM before work. Such was an irresponsible diversion. Standing in my living room ready for work, I turned on CNN, thinking, "why am I doing this, I have clients awaiting my call!"

The News Anchor was saying that it appears a small plane may have hit one of the World Trade buildings. They were trying to figure out was was going on. Hmmm, what's this!?
Minutes later I watched the second tower struck.

Does Mahmoud provide a crucial signal? It is not something that I can ignore.

Nor I.
For reasons I am yet to know why.

Thank you for your musings today, Dan.

Dear Admin,
I didn't know you are a mother! What a very pleasant surprise. Happy Birthday '42. It is a great age for anyone, and especially for a women with talents! Go-Girl. You will affect and accomplish more than most men can even dream of. I hope some day we meet in the flesh. It will be a smiling day for me.

Thank you Jake, I'm a mother of five children along with my work here, the ranch, writing, and Compass Morainn.

Cy,

Happy birthday, again, in a more timely fashion. Thanks for sharing with us. What a full life you have. It is hard for most of us to imagine. It is amazing how different folks run into each other, in this brave new world. Here we are, basically sharing a foxhole. Who'd a thunk it?


Jake,

Yes, on 9/11, the world, very suddenly, got very much smaller. God works in strange ways. S/he has many ways to grab our attention, drama queen that she can be. We are making up for our centuries of ignoring our fellow theists. And we ain't see nothin', yet!




(cont.)

dan wrote:Cy,

Happy birthday, again, in a more timely fashion. Thanks for sharing with us. What a full life you have. It is hard for most of us to imagine. It is amazing how different folks run into each other, in this brave new world. Here we are, basically sharing a foxhole. Who'd a thunk it?

Thank you Dan. That is such a true statement...there is much more to my story which would help make my presence here make sense but it is a story whose day has not yet come...all things in good time, aye?

But for now what concept do you have for Synchronicity? In my understanding Synchronicity with a capital S is something like an avatar...it is the Creative Source focused into a needle point - fine enough to operate consciously directly on our level within our environment but without loss of complexity. My perception of the creative source is far different than how you word yours but that does not mean yours is any less depictive of it for I have personally seen it formulate its expression to be conducive to the perceptions of those it operates directly with. In this understanding there is no such thing as coincidence. And your perception of reality can certainly differ from another person's without loss of meaning. Truth is more about meaning than it is about subjective accuracy. And that is all I will say on it for the moment but I think it will illustrate to what I am pointing in your statement (bold)...a very good thing that establishes kinship. Who'd have thunk it, indeed?

Carry on my friend.

Cy

~ apprentice to Synchronicity.

Dan

I must also echo a thanks on what you have shared recently. History is an invaluable tool upon which we must reflect upon to gain insights on how to live tomorrow. The trenches always seem so lonely, especially at night, until realize who is with you.

Admin

Happy belated. You always seem to have your hands deep in the fiery coals - forging new talons for the times ahead. Do not forget to hang a wreath upon them when complete.

Jake

Thanks for the dose of prophesy.

Cy,

There is a natural tendency, in too many situations, for us humans to emphasize, and then stand upon our differences. It does make for good drama, but it also can be a signal distraction from our greater sense of global community.

Synchronicity, as Jung was wont to point out, gives us all the sense that we are enmeshed in a cosmic web of meaning. Yes, it makes us feel small, but in a good way, and in no way insignificant. So, yes, as with any vitalist, teleologist, panpsychist, pantheist, monist, I live and breath synchronicity. It is our mother's milk. It is also a great leveler..... the momentous is oft seen in the seemingly insignificant. It definitely keeps us on our toes. The cosm and the microcosm are often coincident, each reflecting the other.

Synchronicity is the currency of the Telos, of the Omega toward which all progress converges.


10:30--------

I'm looking back to the nine points (post 313, p. 23) recorded a few days ago, and they seem rather scattered. For whatever recording may be done next, it would be desirable to be able to work from a single theme. The only one I can think of is progress. After all, this has been the theme of.... what? Of the Cosmos? Of Creation? Although, progress is usually best seen in hindsight!

But the very idea of progress is surprisingly recent in its provenance. And, to conform with the Ouroboric cosmology of the BPWH, the idea of progress must be expanded, well beyond the narrow defiles of modernism, even though the idea of progress is practically synonymous with the idea of modernism.

I was surprised to see a mention in this article of a pantheistic interpretation of Plato, in relation to the emergence of empiricism in the Renaissance. Does such an interpretation not verge on the oxymoronic? Well, there is a sense in which Pythagoras provides a pantheistic view of Plato, although the former preceded the latter. For the historical Plato, the realm of the forms was definitely supra-mundane. There was no conception of a law-like Nature, until the apple struck Newton on his noggin. Pythagoras, with his mundane/cosmic harmonies, was probably the nearest to an exception.

Newton's Pythagorean/pantheist take on Plato was the one who opened the floodgates of the Rationalization (reduction) of nature. Before Newton, there was alchemy, astrology and numerology, which prepared the soil for the planting of Newton's seed.

Of course, the 800# gorilla behind the curtain was the notion of a law-giving Creator.

The central problem with the idea of is the problem of its continuity. This problem I refer to as the problem of Perpetual Progress.........


1:20---------

Here is something that I've been looking for, for some time........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Evolution.

This is the latest attempt to combine cosmic, biological and cultural evolution. This is the only (semi-!) coherent alternative to the BPWH.

OTL..........



(cont.)

mdonnall2002 wrote:


Admin

Happy belated. You always seem to have your hands deep in the fiery coals - forging new talons for the times ahead. Do not forget to hang a wreath upon them when complete.

Always!
Cy

Don't forget Animal in helping restore what may have been lost to history

Happy Birthday to you Cy

Animal,

Well, I knew that someone was putting some considerable effort into the restoration, of which the BPWH and Chicken Little are prime beneficiaries! Tell us something about yourself, if you haven't already, or even if you have.......
------------


Transcendentalism is a word that, strangely, I've not used in some time. But then we don't find fish talking much about water, either. As an immaterialist, everything transcends everything..... there is nothing actually material or mundane, even though familiarity may sometimes breed 'contempt' wrt aspects of our stubbornly persistent illusion.

I've been laboring lately, back in the wiki saltmines, struggling with evolutionism vs. transcendentalism.......

A prime contender with the BPWH is the idea of theistic, actually deistic, evolutionism, and of EO Wilson's idea of the Epic of Evoution, mentioned yesterday.

Most religionists, even evangelicalis, now embrace the old Earth hypothesis (OEH), which assumes a deistic, finely tuned Creation, with virtually no divine intervention, up until the special creation of the human soul. And little or no intervention, thereafter.

If you try to find out what is the eschatology or teleology of such a Creation, you encounter only a miasma of contradictions and ambiguities.......

Evolution will continue in its various forms until the end of time, or until we reach some sort of sustainable utopia, which could be more or less what we used to suppose Heaven to be. Evolutionism can, and often does, support a quasi-transcendental Telos. It is to this vague notion of a quasi-perpetual, or utopian(sic), progress that most moderns lend their tacit support or acquiescence. The more vague these aspirations remain, the less we question them, the better off we'll be!




(cont.)

dan wrote:
>>>>
....The only one I can think of is progress. After all, this has been the theme of.... what? Of the Cosmos? Of Creation? Although, progress is usually best seen in hindsight!

But the very idea of progress is surprisingly recent in its provenance. And, to conform with the Ouroboric cosmology of the BPWH, the idea of progress must be expanded, well beyond the narrow defiles of modernism, even though the idea of progress is practically synonymous with the idea of modernism.

>>>>>

...Newton's Pythagorean/pantheist take on Plato was the one who opened the floodgates of the Rationalization (reduction) of nature. Before Newton, there was alchemy, astrology and numerology, which prepared the soil for the planting of Newton's seed.

Of course, the 800# gorilla behind the curtain was the notion of a law-giving Creator.

If the Cosmos displays an history of progress, and the 800# Gorilla be a law-giving Creator, then who/what is the source of progress? And how could progress be considered a recent idea (as if born in the mind of man), when it's history predates the inception of man?

Now for something completely different...

Pantheism: Has it ever occurred to you Dan?,

(based upon the Hebrew Bible) Lucifer's attempt at usurping the throne of G-d, implies that all creation, both seen and unseen, is eternally locked in a Pantheistic premise. Such premise would be required for his political ambitions to succeed. Panentheism was the antagonistic force for his loss.

Historically, this philosophical concept predates Abraham (2,200 BCE). In fact it is considered by many Biblical scholars to predate Noah. (Enoch 4,000 BCE)

Why should Greek Philosophers, arriving more than 3,000 years afterward, be credited with these constructs?

>

I have to run out for the day, sorry to leave this post incomplete.
.... maybe it's enough as is. a little salt

Well, Jake, if you're wishing to pick a fight with Chicken Little, you'll have to try a little harder than this.........!

So, no, I don't see where I differ from what you say, above......

When I was 10, I declared myself to be a transcendental pantheist, which, as it turns out was only mildly oxymoronic. And then, at age 33, with the help of Sophia, I became a born-again, transcendental heretic, which remains flat-out, 100% oxymoronic!! There's progress, for you! Just ask the folks at GFC/SfA.

I am saying that human material/technological progress was the prime ingredient of the plan of Creation, from the beginning. This was intended to be our primary challenge on the path to our Resurrection, as being One with the Creator.

Only now, are we entering the final leg of our Resurrectional journey.......

You, see, God arranged for us to able to get all dressed up, with our technological accouterments, until, finally, we realize that we have no place to go. We're like those small children..... you can dress them up, but you can't take them out!

So, you see, Jake, this was the mother of all setups, the mother of all Bait&Switches.....

It turns out that God has bigger plans for us...... much bigger plans!

He's not going to take us out, he's going to take us in! The Kingdom is within? Well, yes, more or less.....

Just when we were starting to get comfortable in our new clothes, with our latest technologies, God is here to tell us that there has be a slight misunderstanding....... ooops! Our destiny is not in the stars...... nope! Not in a computer...... nope! Our destiny lies beyond space and time, just like Jack, my other Sophia, told me, a little before the ol' girl got her hooks into me.

Beyond space and time? Yes, that is the definition of transcendental.

Now, what is it about pantheism that is bugging Jake and all the other Evengelicals?

Why did so many pantheists get burned at the stake, back in the good ol' days, of the Inquisition? They must have scared the bejezus out of somebody. How?

Familiarity breeds contempt? Yes, siree, especially if you get too familiar with God, which is sort of what pantheism is about. No? Well, theists often like to suppose that pantheists are atheists, which they are, up to a point..... that was the point to which Louise and I had arrived, up to the point of her (un-?) timely demise. But when you scratch that surface, the perennial philosophy, the ancient wisdom does emerge, just like Jung, and almost everyone else, says it must......

Although the sacred scriptures of the world religions are undeniably diverse and often superficially oppose each other, there is discernible running through each a common doctrine regarding the ultimate purpose of human life. This doctrine is mystical in as far as it views the summum bonum of human life as an experiential union with the supreme being that can only be achieved by undertaking a programme of physical and mental purification.

Experiential?? What sort of a quibble is that?

Does there exist a human without a transcendental bone in her body? I seriously doubt it. What about the four horsemen of materialism...... Hitchens, Dawkins, Dennett and Harris? All you have to do is ask them about the anthropic principle and Tegmark. They will become more than a little tongue-tied, those who still have tongues.

The ancient wisdom, the perennial philosophy, are all about Gaugin's questions..... who are we, from whence did we come, whither do we go? If you have nothing to say about that, then, let's face it, you have nothing to say at all. You are the village historian..... with a tale, full of sound and fury, as told by an idiot.

History is the story of our material progress. It was almost the greatest story ever told, that is until God does a curtain call. And, folks, that is the mother of all curtains......

And, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks were split;

It's a hard act to follow!



(cont.)

Let's see if I can recall a conversation.........

There was mention of Ahmadinejad's UN talk.... that it seemed to be relevant to the BPWH, and that it was passed over by the western media, and that it was dismissed by my colleagues at the SfA.

Mostly we talked about science vs. religion, and in the 400 years of formal science, there has been no constructive dialog with religion. Each has gone its separate way. This is perfectly understandable, but what about the future?

It would be wonderful if we could work out a gradual reconciliation between science and religion, but that may not be feasible, because of the fragility and vulnerability of scientific materialism to paranormal phenomena. Thus, the only way to end the intellectual hegemony of science will be with a paradigm shift, or, more accurately, with a gestalt switch. And perhaps this switch is part of a cosmic plan, a plan that may be related to the Endtimes.

The conversation will be continued at a later date.....

There was discussion of how the Renaissance in the west took off from the intellectual blooming in the middle east that came with the rise of Islam.

Why, in the BPW, can we not have our scientifc cake with our spiritual icing? This is a point that needs more discussion.



(cont.)

Can we have our spiritual icing, and keep the scientific cake.......?

Many scientists and most professional theologians do not see, or will not admit to seeing, that there is even the slightest problem with maintaining this 'partnership'. I can only think of this as whistling past the graveyard.

In theory, yes, it should be possible to serve both science and the spirit at the same time, but, sports fans, that's just not in the cosmic cards. So sorry......

We cannot have two masters, and, for the past 400 years, science has been our intellectual master. It demands our full intellectual passion. That you might also go to church with your kids on Sunday, well, that's very thoughtful of you, but let's get serious......

Jake is our very own scientist/theologian. At the SfA, it is David Yue, our biologist/evangelical.

Yes, in theory, it is a wonderful idea, but that's just not where we're headed.

Once we've heard the good news, science will quickly become the weak sister...... the one in the attic, where we send some bread and water, every other night. Yes, the shoe is destined to be on the other foot. Anyone who tells you otherwise is whistling Dixie.

Now, in theory, Judaism and Islam should be more compatible with science than is Christianity. Is it, then, just a supreme irony that science was birthed in the West? No, there is a logic to this 'irony'.......

In the past, I've explained this by referring to the infant monkeys raised with two kinds of ersatz mothers....... warm and fuzzy vs. cold and metallic, both equipped with a nursing bottle. Well, sports fans, do I have to remind us of the results of this experiment. Which 'mother' did curious George get, and what might we conclude wrt the historical provenance of science?

Ok, but why, then, did our best possible Creator not arrange for all of us to get the warm and fuzzy 'mother'?

Hmmm..... that's not a bad question, and I always need to take a deep breath, at this point.....

Well, what can I say, besides doing a lot of hand-waving, other than if God hadn't done that, then I couldn't do this? My waving hand points to the prophetic tradition, and to it's individual, and all too human, prophets. Why didn't God use a PA system? What happened to his sound engineer? If you can explain that to me, then I'll explain warm and fuzzy to you. I'll also explain the 'mechanics' of our participatory universe.

Well, for starters, God does have a 'sound' engineer........ His name turns out to be Donald Davies, a British colleague of Alan Turing's, and whom I'd never heard of until I just, now, wiki'd the Internet. He invented packet switching in 1968. The rest is........... and still is......

If the Internet is not God's belated sound system, then I'll just have to eat my hat. It has everything to do with participation. Doesn't it?

Well, has it been worth the wait? Half the 'fun' has been getting here.

How do we explain this to the Muslims? Did they end up with the short end of the prophetic stick? Did they not read the fine print in their BPW contract? My colleagues at GFC/SfA will tell you that Satan did it. And when I ask them why did God allow Satan to do this, they threaten to call the police. Hmmm.......

Well, it turns out that salvation is also a relay race, and that team humanity has won. This is why we've had to wait for two-, four-, six-thousand years for the payoff. It is rather like the journey of the Olympic torch. No? Was this the best possible relay race? Well, you tell me.....

I will also tell you this...... it was designed to be an impossible act to follow. It had to be. It had to be the best possible act. Yes, we live on sort of a wheel, like the Hindus say. And we will get off this wheel, like they also say. The only part they didn't get was that this Wheel cannot be reinvented!!

Did Satan arrange for them to not grok that excruciatingly obvious point? Or was it God? Well, just off the top........ It had quite a bit to do with their caste system, and also with their slightly errant version of the recirculating cosmic Soul. So, which came first, ignorance or sin?

But wait, am I saying that the Christians won the relay race? Not exactly..... They are about to be hoisted on their very own Jesus! Soldiers that they are! No, I don't blame it on Jesus, I blame it on Guttenberg, speaking of 'sound' engineers.

Hey, there's nothing more dangerous than half of a truth. Jesus was the whole enchilada, but don't tell that to a Christian, if you don't wish to be sent to a psychiatrist.

IMHO, the Bible was the best possible encapsulation of the X-event, on that side of X2. And 2,000 years is nothing to sneeze at? Thank you, Saul/Paul, looking through your glass, not all that darkly, as it turns out! Hey, could you lend me your specs for just one minute, Saul? I lost mine, somewhere on the sidewalk in front of the Comedy Club in San Francisco, ha ha. Dang me! Hey, sometimes a drink is cheaper than a shrink, but not that night.

So, as of Tuesday, it turns out that MA/UN is closer to the truth than all the King's men, who don't even realize that Humpty had a great fall. Mahmoud can even see how we are going to put Humpty together, again..... Mahdi + Jesus + ..... and it has everything to do with reawakening our minds, and putting an end to our winter of ignorance. No Armageddon, no Tribulation, here, not more than we have already had, for the last 2,000 years.

You go, Mahmoud! You tell, 'em! They think you are some kind of peasant. Well, we both are that, each in our own, somewhat inimitable, fashion.


1:30pm-----------

The one thing that Christians cannot abide is Jesus freaks, especially when we are driving a chartreuse minibus.

So, where will the convo(y) go next....?

It mostly comes down to the plausibility of the B&S, and, in theory, at least, the Muslims are better prepared to handle this than are the Xians, with Mahmoud being exhibit A.

The main problem with the Muslims is that they are still, to a large extent, enmeshed in the 'alpha thinking', as delineated by Owen B. What is going to happen about that?

What is happening to the residue of the alpha-thinking, that is still enmeshed, globally, is the Internet.... is twitter, etc...... The Omega will be able to swallow the Alpha, whole, yum-yum.

The ego-centric, beta-thinking, West, will be a different kettle of fish. Yes, we will! But there is hope, even for us. Bless our little hearts! The A/K-kid is my channel, from the beta to the Alpha. It's just that simple.

Probably, we betas will have to reimage the alpha, enroute to the Omega. That could be a really sticky wicket. Just ask the T-party and the neo-Nazis, especially in the midst of a global credit crisis. In God we trust, everyone else pays cash, but gold would be preferable.

Or would it be, if and when the big crunch comes? If you don't have a bible handy, then you might want to grab a Glock, and see how far that gets you!

But I don't have to worry. The CIA is going to protect me. They have an underground facility near Thurmont, and I have an engraved invitation.

What about the Israelis? What about the religious Zionists? Which group is most provocative of the 4M/K/SoT/X2? Is it a contest?

Despite this, some Jews did not embrace Zionism before the 1930s and certain religious groups opposed it on the grounds that an attempt to re-establish Jewish rule in Israel by human agency was blasphemous. Hastening salvation and the coming of the Messiah was considered religiously forbidden, and Zionism was seen as a sign of disbelief in God's power and therefore a rebellion against God. Rabbi Kook developed a theological answer to that claim, which gave Zionism a religious legitimation: "Zionism was not merely a political movement by secular Jews...."

Here is the latest rendition. We might wonder what God thinks about this tempest in a nuclear teapot.

What did God think about Trinity flats, and our Promethean ambitions? What would you do, if you were God?

If I were God, I'd be getting just a bit tired of baby-sitting. I'd be thinking that it might be time for boots on the ground. Time to activate the sound engineer. Gabriel? You, know, the one with the trumpet.


4pm---------

Now we have the Libyan attack........ in the Presidential campaign.

Mitt has proabably already lost the election, but, there is a serious oversight, concerning Benghazi. If I were anywhere near the Whitehouse, I would be all over this issue. Someone seriously dropped this ball. May the Lord have mercy. Think of Jimmy and Tehran.


5:30--------

And here we have the very latest from Gary B..........

http://www.newscientist.com/special/reality

BTW, Gary has been unable to log onto OM. His OM ID has been corrupted. I sent a PM to Cy, on Sarurday, and have not heard back. Can anyone help?



(cont.)

dan wrote:
And here we have the very latest from Gary B..........

http://www.newscientist.com/special/reality

BTW, Gary has been unable to log onto OM. His OM ID has been corrupted. I sent a PM to Cy, on Sarurday, and have not heard back. Can anyone help?

I just checked everything in Admin. No errors showing.
I added Gary's website STARpod.US and his logo (as an avatar), then I reset his account.

It should work now.

Gary, if you are still not able to log in, email me and I will enter a new temporary password to allow you in, then you can reset a new one when you log on.