Personalism 102

First topic message reminder :

This is a topic reminder post……

Personalism 102 is just a continuation Personalism 101…….. as we approach the limit of 40 pages.  

The contention remains that the best possible world is necessarily based on the philosophy and ontology of Personalism.  

The ontology is immaterialism, taken at it’s most fundamental level.

Chivo,

Evidently, you and I don’t have a need to know the details……. not at present.  

In any case, the details are liable to be all over the place…….. inter subjectively.

Yes, the only thing I can guarantee is that the portals are not objects.

Portals are the best possible passages to other dimensions/realms.  

Entering a dream state is one example of a portal.

Like dreams, portals are heavily entangled with everything else….. in particular, they are loci/conduits of the paranormal.  

Very likely, most of us already know or can guess these things……. this is only for the record.  

Portals facilitate our ultimate re-entanglement with the Source……. our in-gathering.

If anyone has more specific thoughts, don’t be bashful.  



(cont………)

Bahahahaha

Exactly!

It is not I who needs to be read in, it is they, who are far behind me.

Can’t touch this.

I think I have an advantage over you, I’m not insane.

Hehe.

I need nothing from anyone else, neither do you, if you realize it.

It’s ok my good man.

I know you are doing the best you can, as I AM.

Let me tell you, I’m out here, way out here and I know how far ahead I AM.

But it hasn’t gone to my head, it’s just the nature of my heart that has brought me so far along.

Let me just say, listen to your divine double.

It is real and it knows better.

I can’t explain it, nor need too, but I hold the world in my hand.

But I love it, it is not garbage to me at all.

Even if this is the Archon’s world, I AM the ghost in the machine.

Very good.

Good show!

Portals are not the main problem for an immaterialist.  

What is more problematic is coming to terms with metabolism.  

One needs to get a handle on it.

The first place I look is to the necessity.  

Why is metabolism necessary in an immaterial world?  

It is necessary from a microcosmic point of view.  

But why is the microcosm necessary?  

Does Creation need to be such a numbers game?

Why not just stop at Three……. why did there have to be 8,000,000,000 of us?

How big can a personal world be without becoming impersonal?  

Many would say that the world is already impersonal.  

But, for the sake of argument, let’s suppose that our target population was 1,000,000.  

Would that number call for metabolism?

Do we need to be mortal?  

What would life be without birth, love and death?  

A world without mortality would be a world without life.  

What kind of Creation would forego creatures?  

So we have our handle on the necessity of metabolism, but we still haven’t answered the numbers question.  

Isn’t 8,000,000,000 of us just a little over the top?  

Can there be too much of a good thing?

But so far, we haven’t touched upon history.

Can we imagine a Creation without a plot line?

Half the world seems to be getting by without a prophetic tradition, while the other half seems to be making more than its share of the trouble.



(cont……….)

Dan,
Is Your hero Gates sponsoring You to discuss reducing the world population?
Please detail who will be killed off first.

All dimensions are omni present in universe, it's just a case of tripping across from one dimension to another, as one does whilst dreaming, to trip the 3D vehicle will require a vast amount of consciousness.

hobbit

hobbit,

Are you suggesting that in the Best Possible World there would be an infinite number of sapient beings?

This is what most of us moderns are tacitly assuming.  

Most of us can’t even imagine living in a small world.  

Certainly you cannot.  

Is there anyone complaining that the universe is too big?

And who amongst the scientists is content with just a single universe, anymore?



(cont……….)

Dan,
I consider this to be an interactive system that will be whatever the inputs from the independent life forms transmit to the overall life form they inhabit.

We humans are by products of this planet, many I speak to keep repeating parrot fashion the garbage that such as Gates keeps promoting that there are too many humans, thus they are transmitting that information to the host life.

We sow the seeds and scatter the good seeds all around, and good outcomes come about.

Your Jesus story is of this, hence with intent if You desire thousands of loaves of bread they will as if by MAGIC appear, whatever collectively is inputted will be the outcome.

hobbit

hobbit,

Are you telling us that we should stick to just the Mother Earth and not populate the galaxy ?  

How modest of you!  

How unmodern!

But, if you’re saying that we’ll get what we ask for, maybe we’d better be careful what we ask for!  

What would you ask for.  

I think I’d ask for the best possible world!  

I think we already have, and that’s exactly what we’ve got…….. understanding that we have to look at all of history……. sub specie aeternitatis!  

…….. and look at all of Heaven and Hell….. wondering if they should even exist…….

What do you think?  



(cont……..)

Dan,
We will not be able to "populate the galaxy, We are by products of the condition here and now upon this planet, and We are blind to how it operates.

We simply cannot survive anywhere else without the ability to replicate the condition of the here and now elsewhere, and as We don't even recognise what this entails with our limited senses , You can kiss that idea goodbye.

What is at risk is telling this LIVING planet to rid itself of ourselves now.

The whole system is alive, and is interactive.

hobbit

And how many of us are truly wishing for total extinction?

Do we know of anyone who truly does……. other than in a moment of total exasperation?

I travelled to Cold Mountain:

Stayed here for thirty years.

Yesterday looked for family and friends.

More than half had gone to Yellow Springs.

Slow-burning, life dies like a flame,

Never resting, passes like a river.

Today I face my lone shadow.

Suddenly, the tears flow down.

Airborne,

Perhaps you had better call a crisis hotline.

Is your family connected with Antioch?

Dan,

I have several lines on hand. I still have the "sky is falling" line saved in my contacts if I need it.

I think your assessment is correct about my family. Antioch has had much to offer the world

One question remains though. What hath Roswell to do with Jerusalem?

https://www.logos.com/grow/min-ufos-and-christianity/

8,000,000,000 does seem awful redundant.

Makes for a lot of drama and tragic comedy.

But DNA is a successful mechanism to say the least.

It keeps nature moving.

I think we must always ground ourselves in our day to day experience and our bodies.

Yes, we have this essence we call consciousness also, which may be immaterial.

But if there is no electrical activity, we may still be alive it seems.

Our cells continue to function for a long while.

But the organizing network seems to be gone.

It is a mystery.

Anyone who thinks they understand it is a lying fool.

We are, this is.

Why it is?

What it is?

How it is?

Not as important as this is what it is.

If most would just take care with the small world they live in, might be a lot more peaceful.

But our nature is to covet as well as give.

They seems like a natural governor on our potential.

My smelly opinion anyway and living grounded in the day to day, taking each day as my last seems to yield good results.

Tomorrow will take care of itself if we take care of today.

But then again, anything can happen anytime.

Each has to work it out and come to terms with this themselves.

hobbit wrote:Dan,
Is Your hero Gates sponsoring You to discuss reducing the world population?
Please detail who will be killed off first.

All dimensions are omni present in universe, it's just a case of tripping across from one dimension to another, as one does whilst dreaming, to trip the 3D vehicle will require a vast amount of consciousness.

hobbit

Dan can only speculate, same for anyone.

The first shall be last and the last shall be first or so a man from Galilee once said, 2nd or 3rd hand at least

I don’t think we should let the beliefs/thoughts and words of others dictate our lives, past or present.

Airborne,

Only one question…….. Roswell and Jerusalem?  

If either Ufos or the jguy didn’t exist, we would have had to invent them, and it may well be a bit of both.

And we could say the same thing about the world, especially the best possible world!

That’s pretty much describes my ontology.

If you know of a better one, let us know.  
……….


Chivo,

Yes, 8,000,000,000 of us does seem a bit redundant.  

But perhaps we are not looking at it properly…… sub specie aeternitatis.  

If ours is the only world, for all of eternity, this would be a very high rent district, regardless of your actual neighborhood.

And, yes, we can think of this as a multiverse…… with 10^10 microcosms……. with each one of us harboring a transcendental dimension.

We all end up as one with the One……. just for showing up, we all receive a winning lottery ticket .

How long a line would you stand in, for such a deal?

And remember, the last will be first.



(cont……..)

dan wrote:Airborne,

Only one question…….. Roswell and Jerusalem?  

If either Ufos or the jguy didn’t exist, we would have had to invent them, and it may well be a bit of both.

And we could say the same thing about the world, especially the best possible world!

That’s pretty much describes my ontology.

If you know of a better one, let us know.  
……….

(cont……..)

Idealism in its various forms seems to be the best possible ontology according to the coherence test.

But idealism tends to have a built in gestalt switch. Is it "we" who are "inventing" these things, or is it God? Whether or not freewill exists would seem to determine the answer to that question...

101airborne wrote:

dan wrote:Airborne,

Only one question…….. Roswell and Jerusalem?  

If either Ufos or the jguy didn’t exist, we would have had to invent them, and it may well be a bit of both.

And we could say the same thing about the world, especially the best possible world!

That’s pretty much describes my ontology.

If you know of a better one, let us know.  
……….

(cont……..)

Idealism in its various forms seems to be the best possible ontology according to the coherence test.

But idealism tends to have a built in gestalt switch. Is it "we" who "inventing" these things, or is it God? Whether or not freewill exists would seem to determine the answer to that question...

Do You believe in freewill, tough guy?

I’m about to triple jump you all.

Hypermodernity and the end of the time…

Oh my.

Mr. Janus (U2) wrote:

101airborne wrote:

dan wrote:Airborne,

Only one question…….. Roswell and Jerusalem?  

If either Ufos or the jguy didn’t exist, we would have had to invent them, and it may well be a bit of both.

And we could say the same thing about the world, especially the best possible world!

That’s pretty much describes my ontology.

If you know of a better one, let us know.  
……….

(cont……..)

Idealism in its various forms seems to be the best possible ontology according to the coherence test.

But idealism tends to have a built in gestalt switch. Is it "we" who "inventing" these things, or is it God? Whether or not freewill exists would seem to determine the answer to that question...

Do You believe in freewill, tough guy?

We are free to exercise our will, but our will is determined. So yes, but also... hell no

I can say for sure that free will is much overrated.  

Whether we choose chocolate over vanilla is not what the best possible world is about.  

The world is about why there is something rather than nothing.  

And, given the very least of something, how was that something not going to be the focus of consciousness?  

But from that seemingly inauspicious primordial logos, it was going to be a very slippery slope to the BPW.  

Even God had no choice.  

Can’t we just opt out?  

Can’t we fight city hall?  

We have met the cosmic consciousness……. and it is us.  

We are one with the One.  

Always have been…….. always will be.  

Get over it…….. get used to it!  

Free will only makes the slightest sense……. sub specie aeternitatis.  

Space and time are our best possible illusions……. for here and now…….. in the midst of our global gestalt switch.  

Enjoy them while they last.  
……….


Marilynne Robinson……. https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2022/12/22/a-theology-of-the-present-moment-marilynne-robinson/ doesn’t embrace the small word, but she doesn’t embrace the big world, either.

With her monism of the Present……. of our Presence……. we are definitely not lost in space and time.



(cont……..)

Believing in something is the beginning of foolishness.

You will never know or understand why you do what you do or why things happen the way they do.

It’s the small things that matter to us in the end.

If you get a death sentence tomorrow, I promise you things will become very simple and clear.

I assume I’ll be gone soon and I act accordingly.

I don’t worry about what after, I focus on here now.

That’s why us stoics consider our death every morning.

It focuses us on the day ahead.

Keeps things pragmatic and simple.

You do what you do.

This is what it is.

Free will is the worry of egos.

I find the Sufi/Mystic direct view interesting.

“Ibn ‘Arabî considers that only He who possesses Being in Himself (wujûd dhâtî) and whose Being is His very essence (wujûduhu ‘ayn dhâtihi), merits the name of Being. Now only God can be like that. For the creatures, Being is a loan, which is not part of their essence. This means that a creature does not own its being, that it can never be independent in itself, and that it cannot for the blinking of an eye do without Him who lends it Being. Thus for Ibn ‘Arabî, the created does not deserve the attribution of Being. Only God is Being, and all the rest is in reality a possibility (imkân), a relative, possible non-existence.
Thus Being is Divine Essence. Indeed, if the Being of God were an adjunct to His Essence, then Absolute Unity (wahdâniyya) would be done away with. Besides, for Ibn ‘Arabî, since Being is the Divine Essence, if a creature claimed to possess Being, it would be claiming to share with God in His Divinity.”

We exist.

Why things happen as they do, what we do, don’t know.

I am always amused by muppets so sure about what they think they know.

If you get the chance to face your own death for real, love to hear what is important to any of you then

How about live that way everyday?

Assume the music can stop any moment.

Things become very simple.

dan wrote:

Marilynne Robinson……. https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2022/12/22/a-theology-of-the-present-moment-marilynne-robinson/ doesn’t embrace the small word, but she doesn’t embrace the big world, either.  

With her monism of the Present……. of our Presence……. we are definitely not lost in space and time.  



(cont……..)

Indeed

My favorite theologian, John Calvin, called this world “the theater of God’s glory.” I incline to the view that reality is, figuratively speaking, a theater, arbitrarily circumscribed so that what passes within it can seem or be comprehensible and meaningful. This is anthropocentric thinking, necessarily. But then the given world is anthropocentric, scaled to our perceptions, accessible to manipulation by us, allowing endless uses for our ingenuity. I know it has seemed generous lately to try to step away from our dominion and to renounce our singular nature. And no wonder. It is, we are, such a problem. But this is only a proof that the drama of existence as we know it is centered in us. There is more to existence than we can begin to conceive of, but we have the useful illusion of knowing essential things. We lived in the uncanny quiet of sun and moon, morning and evening, for hundreds of thousands of years, never dreaming that everything in the universe is rushing away from everything else in the universe at a rate that must ultimately shatter the web of gravity that holds it all together. Or so they say. Within our little quiet, which is at least as remarkable as the cosmic roar and everything it carries with it, we have been up to all sorts of things, testing the limits of good and evil, filling the calm with havoc and disruption, making music and poetry.

Thanks for sharing.

Robinson also touches on continuous creation.  It's controversial at best, but also inescapable given the Christian idea of creation.  

A certain divine from New England was big fan...

We do indeed live in the best of all possible worlds, like Pangloss said.

Here is something (discussed before, if I’m remembering correctly) I have to contribute to this discussion, in addition to the following quote from a man with funny hair: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-dimensionalism

“Given the existence as uttered forth in the public works of Puncher and Wattmann of a personal God quaquaquaqua with white beard 🧙‍ quaquaquaqua outside time ️ without extension who from the heights of divine apathia divine athambia divine aphasia loves us dearly with some exceptions for reasons unknown but time ️ will tell and suffers like the divine Miranda with those who for reasons unknown but time will tell are plunged in torment plunged in fire whose fire flames if that continues and who can doubt it will fire the firmament that is to say blast hell to heaven so blue still and calm so calm with a calm which even though intermittent is better than nothing but not so fast and considering what is more that as a result of the labours left unfinished crowned by the Acacacacademy of Anthropopopometry of Essy-in-Possy of Testew and Cunard it is established beyond all doubt all other doubt than that which clings to the labours of men that as a result of the labours unfinished of Testew and Cunard it is established as hereinafter but not so fast for reasons unknown that as a result of the public works of Puncher and Wattmann it is established beyond all doubt that in view of the labours of Fartov and Belcher left unfinished for reasons unknown of Testew and Cunard left unfinished it is established what many deny that man in Possy of Testew and Cunard that man in Essy that man in short that man in brief 🩳 in spite of the strides of alimentation and defecation is seen to waste and pine waste and pine and concurrently simultaneously what is more for reasons unknown in spite of the strides of physical culture the practice of sports such as tennis football running ‍ cycling ‍ swimming ‍ flying floating riding gliding 🪁 conating camogie skating 🛼 tennis of all kinds dying 🪦 flying sports of all sorts autumn summer winter winter tennis of all kinds of all sorts penicilline and succedanea in a word I resume and concurrently simultaneously for reasons unknown to shrink and dwindle in spite of the tennis I resume flying gliding 🪂 golf️‍ over nine and eighteen holes of all sorts in a word for reasons unknown in Feckham Peckham Fulham Clapham namely concurrently simultaneously what is more for reasons unknown but time ️ will tell to shrink and dwindle I resume Fulham Clapham in a word the dead loss per caput since the death of Bishop Berkeley being to the tune of one inch four ounce per caput approximately by and large more or less to the nearest decimal good measure round figures stark naked 🩲 in the stockinged 🧦 feet🦶 in Connemara in a word for reasons unknown no matter what matter the facts are there and considering what is more much more grave 🪦 that in the light of the labours lost of Steinweg and Peterman it appears what is more much more grave that in the light ️ the light the light of the labours 🧐 lost of Steinweg and Peterman that in the plains in the mountains ️ by the seas ️ by the rivers ️ running water running fire the air is the same and then the earth namely the air and then the earth in the great cold 🧊 the great dark the air ️and the earth abode of stones 🪨 in the great cold ️ alas alas in the year of their Lord 🧙‍six hundred and something the air the earth the sea the earth abode of stones in the great deeps the great cold an sea ️ on land and in the air I resume for reasons unknown in spite of the tennis the facts are there but time ️ will tell I resume alas alas on on in short in fine on on abode of stones who can doubt it I resume but not so fast I resume the skull to shrink and waste and concurrently simultaneously what is more for reasons unknown in spite of the tennis  on on the beard 🧔 the flames ️the tears the stones so blue so calm alas alas on on the skull the skull the skull the skull in Connemara in spite of the tennis the labours abandoned left unfinished graver still abode of stones 🪨 in a word I resume alas alas abandoned unfinished the skull the skull in Connemara in spite of the tennis the skull alas the stones 🪨 Cunard tennis ... the stones ... so calm ... Cunard... unfinished...“

Cockatoo,

Thank you for your interlude.

I’m sure it was meant in good faith.


Airborne,

Thanks for your referral to the book on idealism and theology.

You have provoked me to at least take a stab at it.

Dan, this is to notify you the account named "Footman" has been closed by me.  


According to Ron he has not used it in years.  The posting that has been happening from the Footman account has not been Ron or anyone in his family.  


It seems Dan requested access to the account along with the user password.  It was granted to Dan and then Dan shared it with "philosophy students" (multiple).  I do not know at what point Rons use of the account halted and the unknown users ensued.  Ron asked the account to be closed down because Dan has been attributing the authorship of the posting to Ron or his wife which is incorrect.


I have not at this point deleted any of the posts by the Footman account as that would break the various discussion threads contexts in which the account contributed.  This account is to STAY closed unless I otherwise alter the situation for Ron at Ron's request.  No exceptions.  If anyone attempts to tamper with the account I will delete it along with all the posts and wreck Dan's board in the process.  So.  Hands off.  

End of message on the matter.


Cyrellys, Admin.