The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

First topic message reminder :

Hi ScarZ,

Thank you for posting this information. Does any of David Flynn's material give any idea to the time-frames for the early events or historical figures that his research indicated?

Cy wrote:Re: Uncommon Thoughts on Common Things - Cyrellys
 Today at 11:42 am by Cyrellys (Online)

Well, during homeschool today I have been assaulted by teenage discoveries in "your mama" quips from the internet including ones like this:

Your mama is so fat, that when she went swimming out in the Pacific ocean a group of whales came swimming along singing we-are-family! even though you're bigger than me!!!

Your mama is so fat, that when she went swimming in the Atlantic ocean and Spain claimed her as a new world.

And then there were a series of similar ones that exceed re-publishing discretion and decency.

MEANWHILE

Putin is reported as slamming 'morally bankrupt America who is godless now'.

 http://patdollard.com/2014/01/putin-slams-morally-bankrupt-america-whos-godless-now/


Whelp there is nothing sane nor sacred these days.  Maybe. 

But then Putin is still focused on the recent policy topic (01-14-14 ?):

“Many Euro-Atlantic countries have moved away from their roots, including Christian values,” Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a recent keynote speech. “Policies are being pursued that place on the same level a multi-child family and a same-sex partnership, a faith in God and a belief in Satan. This is the path to degradation.”

Cy
-- Truth is stranger than fiction.

compare to the list of events provided in date order within my speech here:  https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t158p330-uncommon-thoughts-on-common-things-cyrellys#4975

as well as to several subsequent events where I've tracked the dialog on the 'policy announcement'.

QUOTE:

As part of this defense of “Christian values,” Russia has adopted a law banning “homosexual propaganda” and another that makes it a criminal offense to “insult” the religious sensibilities of believers.

The law on religious sensibilities was adopted in the wake of a protest in Moscow’s largest cathedral by a female punk rock group against the Orthodox Church’s support of Mr. Putin. Kremlin-run television said the group’s “demonic” protest was funded by “some Americans.”

Mr. Putin’s views of the West were echoed this month by Patriarch Kirill I of Moscow, the leader of the Orthodox Church, who accused Western countries of engaging in the “spiritual disarmament” of their people.

END QUOTE  Source:  http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2014/01/putin-slams-morally-bankrupt-america-whos-godless-now-2798146.html


BACKSTORY:  One of the things Russia has been criticized about (topic russian troops in America for martial law scenario - pre staged here) is that Russia is believed to have ulterior conquest motives and be morally bankrupt because they are led by a former KGB agent - this is per comments from talking heads in the patriot community who swear if a martial law scenario occurs here and Russian troops emerge from the places they've been identified as hiding in, that Russia will not be getting those bodies back, not even in body bags.  But much of the patriot community has not been doing what I've been doing which is tracking the extraterrestrial wild card in the mix and the 01-14-14 events/dialogs in the back channels.  

Looking at that article put out by pat dollard and the comments by Putin, it seems to me that those taken along side of a recent letter to America is designed to communicate something to the conservatives, patriots, christians, libertarians, constitutionalists et al in America.  A stance he has taken.  Putin never seems to be someone who goofs around.  So if he publicly takes a stance there's a reason behind it.

He's communicating being a supporter of traditionalist, principled values that are uniform to our conservative constitutional patriotic values.  He's recommending to the world sticking to those values.  Is this a response to the accusations leveled at him and his nation for the presence of Russian troops?  Are we looking at a possible meeting on the proverbial battlefield of ideas something akin to the Irish turning and shaking hands with the hero of the tale of Braveheart of Scotland?

The answer to that may be in who controls the troops stationed here in the US.  Is it the globals or is it Putin?  The hard part in answering that question however is that someone outside of those in the American liberty movement who know of them, would have to first admit they are here.

Cy
Is Putin a Third Option'r?

As I've said many times before,"I look for events to play out much differently than how most are seeing it today."

If the words or teachings become too popular then be very watchful, it could turn out to be nothing more than "Fools Gold."

Always keep in mind,"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:" .........Here we see once again that the broad way (Most traveled or most popular way)........leads to destruction.

As the revelation continues,it will increase in swiftness until the final outcome. Faith in the Word of God will drop off more and more. A revealing will take place at the right time and the right place.

A small remnant will not be asleep in their minds and will not be deceived because they are children of the day. The vast majority are childern of the night and they sleep in their minds.

1Thessalonians 5:4-6

But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.


True believers will be nothing more than outcast looked upon as fools who believe in nonsense. The birth pains will intensify as time draws near for the gathering of forces.

1 Thessalonians 5:3

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


**************************************

Jack is back!!!

ScaRZ wrote:

Always keep in mind,"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:" .........Here we see once again that the broad way (Most traveled or most popular way)........leads to destruction.

Where exactly is the narrow gate or for that matter - what does it look like?  Some who walk alone in their quest towards God, are always being suggested to, that they are not on the narrow path.  Who defines the narrow path? Men? Christians? Pastors? Who has the authority to claim they 'know' the narrow way or does God naturally have that function?

Does God speak to us all in the same manner? Are all our walks the same?

If perse one Billion Christians, profess to Christ and the Father in prayer, how many are on the narrow way? All? Some? Few? Is it all of them vs a world that does not?  

What exactly is the 'most popular way'? How do you define this?

Should we return to the days of stoning as punishments for gathering sticks on Sabbath as Moses did - or did Christ bring us something more to consider – something far greater?  

Questions, normally unacceptable within church walls, asked here, should naturally be asked.

Bard wrote:

Where exactly is the narrow gate or for that matter - what does it look like?  Some who walk alone in their quest towards God, are always being suggested to, that they are not on the narrow path.  Who defines the narrow path? Men? Christians? Pastors? Who has the authority to claim they 'know' the narrow way or does God naturally have that function?

Does God speak to us all in the same manner? Are all our walks the same?

If perse one Billion Christians, profess to Christ and the Father in prayer, how many are on the narrow way? All? Some? Few? Is it all of them vs a world that does not?  

What exactly is the 'most popular way'? How do you define this?

Should we return to the days of stoning as punishments for gathering sticks on Sabbath as Moses did - or did Christ bring us something more to consider – something far greater?  

Questions, normally unacceptable within church walls, asked here, should naturally be asked.

The words were from Jesus Christ. A great teaching from The Lord that I believe show those "Of The World" and those who are "Not Of The World". It's all about the childern of darkness......."Those of the night" and the childern of the light........"Those of the day".

As Jesus Christ said........"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."(Matthew 7:14) Jesus Christ is teaching using prophecy of how only a few will receive the gift of eternal life. Remember Jesus Christ is The Way..........."He is the Narrow". The vast majority take the "Broad" way that is not Jesus Christ and it leads away from eternal life and ends with destruction. The Adversary is the Broad......."The Destroyer".

I used the term "The Most Popular" because I believe it fits very well in our thinking of today. It is suited to the means of the majority or widely accepted.

ScaRZ wrote:
The words were from Jesus Christ. A great teaching from The Lord that I believe show those "Of The World" and those who are "Not Of The World". It's all about the childern of darkness......."Those of the night" and the childern of the light........"Those of the day".

As Jesus Christ said........"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."(Matthew 7:14) Jesus Christ is teaching using prophecy of how only a few will receive the gift of eternal life. Remember Jesus Christ is The Way..........."He is the Narrow". The vast majority take the "Broad" way that is not Jesus Christ and it leads away from eternal life and ends with destruction. The Adversary is the Broad......."The Destroyer".

I used the term "The Most Popular" because I believe it fits very well in our thinking of today. It is suited to the means of the majority or widely accepted.

Thinking internally:

So, only those who profess to be Christian, are on the Narrow way? All Christians despite the actions they take through life? Wearing one face - but presenting another? Are they also the narrow-walkers?  

Theologically speaking, we know that as long as you ask for forgiveness for that action, you will be absolved, but what if it is chronic? Two cheek limits?

If a holy-man, peeks through your windows day/night, with a pseudo-omnipotence, technologically speaking, does this take them further or closer to the narrow-way?

Did Jesus promote the practice of temple spies in the name of the Lord and or the Father?  I honestly need to find an answer to that one question.

A verse, anyone?

What of those who kill in His name or for His name?

I wonder if the Snow-Down affairs and how light moves through Prisms may have been inspired.  If it were - hypothetically speaking, what would covering it up amount to?  Of course there is no real way of knowing for sure so that does provide some insulation to those in charge of its refractory nature.

Keep Well All

Just curious if Jesus condoned, spoke about, or discussed spies.

How would he view them?

Bard wrote:Just curious if Jesus condoned, spoke about, or discussed spies.

How would he view them?

Dude- where are you going with this?


48 Bible Verses about
Spying

Jude 1:4 ESV / 6 helpful votes

For certain people have crept in unnoticed who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into sensuality and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

Ecclesiastes 10:20 ESV / 5 helpful votes

Even in your thoughts, do not curse the king, nor in your bedroom curse the rich, for a bird of the air will carry your voice, or some winged creature tell the matter.

2 Peter 2:1-22 ESV / 4 helpful votes

But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;

1 Timothy 4:3 ESV / 4 helpful votes

Who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

John 12:48 ESV / 3 helpful votes

The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.

Joshua 7:1-26 ESV / 3 helpful votes

But the people of Israel broke faith in regard to the devoted things, for Achan the son of Carmi, son of Zabdi, son of Zerah, of the tribe of Judah, took some of the devoted things. And the anger of the Lord burned against the people of Israel. Joshua sent men from Jericho to Ai, which is near Beth-aven, east of Bethel, and said to them, “Go up and spy out the land.” And the men went up and spied out Ai. And they returned to Joshua and said to him, “Do not have all the people go up, but let about two or three thousand men go up and attack Ai. Do not make the whole people toil up there, for they are few.” So about 3,000 men went up there from the people. And they fled before the men of Ai, and the men of Ai killed about thirty-six of their men and chased them before the gate as far as Shebarim and struck them at the descent. And the hearts of the people melted and became as water.

Jude 1:3 ESV / 2 helpful votes

Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.

Hebrews 4:12 ESV / 2 helpful votes

For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

1 Timothy 4:1 ESV / 2 helpful votes

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,

Ephesians 6:12 ESV / 2 helpful votes

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

For anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says, “Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you.”

Ephesians 5:1-6:24 ESV / 2 helpful votes

Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children. And walk in love, as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us, a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God. But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5 ESV / 2 helpful votes

For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,

John 14:6 ESV / 2 helpful votes

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 8:31 ESV / 2 helpful votes

So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, “If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples,

John 3:36 ESV / 2 helpful votes

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Luke 6:46 ESV / 2 helpful votes

“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?

Mark 13:22 ESV / 2 helpful votes

For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform signs and wonders, to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

Mark 10:14 ESV / 2 helpful votes

But when Jesus saw it, he was indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God.

Mark 7:7 ESV / 2 helpful votes

In vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

Matthew 18:16 ESV / 2 helpful votes

But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses.

Matthew 16:18 ESV / 2 helpful votes

And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Matthew 7:17-27 ESV / 2 helpful votes

So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits. “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Ezekiel 3:17 ESV / 2 helpful votes

“Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel. Whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me.

Jeremiah 26:2 ESV / 2 helpful votes

“Thus says the Lord: Stand in the court of the Lord's house, and speak to all the cities of Judah that come to worship in the house of the Lord all the words that I command you to speak to them; do not hold back a word.

Jeremiah 23:29 ESV / 2 helpful votes

Is not my word like fire, declares the Lord, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?

Proverbs 3:5-6 ESV / 2 helpful votes

Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths.

Psalm 146:3 ESV / 2 helpful votes

Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation.

Psalm 100:3 ESV / 2 helpful votes

Know that the Lord, he is God! It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture.

Psalm 97:10 ESV / 2 helpful votes

O you who love the Lord, hate evil! He preserves the lives of his saints; he delivers them from the hand of the wicked.

Psalm 91:3 ESV / 2 helpful votes

For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence.

Psalm 50:15 ESV / 2 helpful votes

And call upon me in the day of trouble; I will deliver you, and you shall glorify me.”

Psalm 28:7 ESV / 2 helpful votes

The Lord is my strength and my shield; in him my heart trusts, and I am helped; my heart exults, and with my song I give thanks to him.

Psalm 14:1 ESV / 2 helpful votes

To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good.

Psalm 11:3 ESV / 2 helpful votes

If the foundations are destroyed, what can the righteous do?”

1 Kings 18:28 ESV / 2 helpful votes

And they cried aloud and cut themselves after their custom with swords and lances, until the blood gushed out upon them.

Joshua 6:17 ESV / 2 helpful votes

And the city and all that is within it shall be devoted to the Lord for destruction. Only Rahab the prostitute and all who are with her in her house shall live, because she hid the messengers whom we sent.

Joshua 6:1-27 ESV / 2 helpful votes

Now Jericho was shut up inside and outside because of the people of Israel. None went out, and none came in. And the Lord said to Joshua, “See, I have given Jericho into your hand, with its king and mighty men of valor. You shall march around the city, all the men of war going around the city once. Thus shall you do for six days. Seven priests shall bear seven trumpets of rams' horns before the ark. On the seventh day you shall march around the city seven times, and the priests shall blow the trumpets. And when they make a long blast with the ram's horn, when you hear the sound of the trumpet, then all the people shall shout with a great shout, and the wall of the city will fall down flat, and the people shall go up, everyone straight before him.”

Joshua 5:14 ESV / 2 helpful votes

And he said, “No; but I am the commander of the army of the Lord. Now I have come.” And Joshua fell on his face to the earth and worshiped and said to him, “What does my lord say to his servant?”

Joshua 5:1-15 ESV / 2 helpful votes

As soon as all the kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan to the west, and all the kings of the Canaanites who were by the sea, heard that the Lord had dried up the waters of the Jordan for the people of Israel until they had crossed over, their hearts melted and there was no longer any spirit in them because of the people of Israel. At that time the Lord said to Joshua, “Make flint knives and circumcise the sons of Israel a second time.” So Joshua made flint knives and circumcised the sons of Israel at Gibeath-haaraloth. And this is the reason why Joshua circumcised them: all the males of the people who came out of Egypt, all the men of war, had died in the wilderness on the way after they had come out of Egypt. Though all the people who came out had been circumcised, yet all the people who were born on the way in the wilderness after they had come out of Egypt had not been circumcised.

Joshua 4:1-24 ESV / 2 helpful votes

When all the nation had finished passing over the Jordan, the Lord said to Joshua, “Take twelve men from the people, from each tribe a man, and command them, saying, ‘Take twelve stones from here out of the midst of the Jordan, from the very place where the priests' feet stood firmly, and bring them over with you and lay them down in the place where you lodge tonight.’” Then Joshua called the twelve men from the people of Israel, whom he had appointed, a man from each tribe. And Joshua said to them, “Pass on before the ark of the Lord your God into the midst of the Jordan, and take up each of you a stone upon his shoulder, according to the number of the tribes of the people of Israel,

Deuteronomy 4:2 ESV / 2 helpful votes

You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you.

Numbers 21:14 ESV / 2 helpful votes

Therefore it is said in the Book of the Wars of the Lord, “Waheb in Suphah, and the valleys of the Arnon,

Numbers 13:26 ESV / 2 helpful votes

And they came to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation of the people of Israel in the wilderness of Paran, at Kadesh. They brought back word to them and to all the congregation, and showed them the fruit of the land.

Leviticus 16:16 ESV / 2 helpful votes

Thus he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleannesses of the people of Israel and because of their transgressions, all their sins. And so he shall do for the tent of meeting, which dwells with them in the midst of their uncleannesses.

Leviticus 16:15 ESV / 2 helpful votes

“Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering that is for the people and bring its blood inside the veil and do with its blood as he did with the blood of the bull, sprinkling it over the mercy seat and in front of the mercy seat.

Genesis 6:1-22 ESV / 2 helpful votes

When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years.” The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Genesis 1:1 ESV / 2 helpful votes

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.     

Maybe two of the extensive list were related to spying. Thanks for trying, though.

Do you have an opinion Nib - beyond questioning the intent of the question?

Does one require a destination when they walk out the door?
Does a question have to have an end purpose?  
Questions are asked when we are naturally without answers and seek better understanding.

Can you mentally put your 'OWN' personal belief or feelings into thought here, for us, related to the question?

Do you feel men of God and or those that profess to be of the Lord - are sanctioned to pry into the private lives of anyone they chose - For whatever reason they deem appropriate?

I realize you enjoy your one liners, and that is fine, but is there more in you than that? Do you have a voice deeper than one liners? I'm certain Scarz does not need someone to pat him on the back or to agree with him when he 'lays it out'. Why don't you take some time to lay out your feelings and soul - like the many others here. You might actually find it - educational.

In defense of you own - silence - I did sit for years before speaking openly. So, do understand, I 'understand' if you can't illuminate us further.

Bard wrote:Just curious if Jesus condoned, spoke about, or discussed spies.

How would he view them?

I don't remember Jesus Christ using anyone to spy or teaching a topic on spying.

We know in scripture that some spies were used by men of God for reasons I believe accomplished God's will. Many times we don't understand the full picture but God uses people to reach certain goals. Getting someone to turn to God is number one on the list I believe.

Here below is a very good read about why I said what I did.

---------------------------------------------

http://www.enduringword.com/commentaries/0602.htm



Joshua 2 - The Salvation of Rahab



A. Spies sent to the city of Jericho.

1. (1a) Joshua sends forth spies.

Now Joshua the son of Nun sent out two men from Acacia Grove to spy secretly, saying, “Go, view the land, especially Jericho.”

a. Remember that all this takes place during the three days Joshua has commanded the nation to wait on the banks of the Jordan (Joshua 1:11). God has a special purpose for these three days.

b. Joshua the son of Nun sent out two men from Acacia Grove to spy secretly: This kind of careful preparation shows faithfulness, not a lack of faith. God’s promises of success to us should never lull us into inaction. They should spur us on to a step out in godly activity.

i. We aren’t told who the two spies are, but Jewish tradition - speculation, really - says they were faithful Caleb and the High Priest Eliezer.

c. To spy secretly: Joshua also shows wisdom by sending them secretly. The last spies that went out publicly turned out badly for Israel, when a majority of the spies came back with a discouraging report (Numbers 13).

d. Go, view the land, especially Jericho: God has greater things in mind for this spy mission; it will fail as a mission of military reconnaissance, but it will succeed in God’s purpose.

2. (1b) The spies at Rahab’s house.

So they went, and came to the house of a harlot named Rahab, and lodged there.

a. Came to the house of a harlot named Rahab: Through the history of Christianity, it has embarrassed some Bible interpreters that these two spies went to the house of a prostitute. Some have tried to say that Rahab was simply an “innkeeper,” but the language is clear enough. She was a harlot.

i. In the second century Origen wrote: “As the first Joshua sent his spies before him and they were received into the harlot’s house, so the second Joshua sent his forerunners, whom the publicans and harlots gladly received”.

ii. It is great when sinners receive Jesus; not those who deny their sinfulness or don’t know what they are capable of apart from Jesus - the gospel is for those who know they are sinners.

b. And lodged there: Why did they go to the harlot’s house? Though it was an awkward place, it must be admitted that it was a perfect place to hide out and remain anonymous, and this was necessary because the city was on strict guard.

i. There isn’t even the hint of immorality with Rahab. Anyone who assumes that there was immoral conduct forces their own bias on the text.

3. (2-7) Rahab hides and protects the spies.

And it was told the king of Jericho, saying, “Behold, men have come here tonight from the children of Israel to search out the country.” So the king of Jericho sent to Rahab, saying, “Bring out the men who have come to you, who have entered your house, for they have come to search out all the country.” Then the woman took the two men and hid them. So she said, “Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they were from. And it happened as the gate was being shut, when it was dark, that the men went out. Where the men went I do not know; pursue them quickly, for you may overtake them.” (But she had brought them up to the roof and hidden them with the stalks of flax, which she had laid in order on the roof.) Then the men pursued them by the road to the Jordan, to the fords. And as soon as those who pursued them had gone out, they shut the gate.

a. Then the woman took the two men and hid them: In the culture of that day, there was a strong tradition of hospitality. If someone was a guest in your house, you had a strong duty to protect them and care for them. Even considering this, Rahab went much further than the respect of cultural traditions regarding hospitality. She put her own life on the line for these men.

b. Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they were from: The Bible simply reports Rahab’s lie; it does not praise it or excuse it. Perhaps if she had beforehand determined in her heart to not lie in obedience to God, He would have made a way for her to preserve the life of the spies without lying.

c. Rahab’s lie is not justified, but it does show courage. Consider that she was a pagan sinner in a city and culture wholly given over to the worship of false gods and immorality, with no previous contact with the word of God or the things of God. What is your excuse?

B. Salvation for Rahab.

1. (8-14) Rahab’s confession of faith.

Now before they lay down, she came up to them on the roof, and said to the men: “I know that the LORD has given you the land, that the terror of you has fallen on us, and that all the inhabitants of the land are fainthearted because of you. For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea for you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were on the other side of the Jordan, Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed. And as soon as we heard these things, our hearts melted; neither did there remain any more courage in anyone because of you, for the LORD your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath. Now therefore, I beg you, swear to me by the LORD, since I have shown you kindness, that you also will show kindness to my father’s house, and give me a true token, and spare my father, my mother, my brothers, my sisters, and all that they have, and deliver our lives from death.” So the men answered her, “Our lives for yours, if none of you tell this business of ours. And it shall be, when the LORD has given us the land, that we will deal kindly and truly with you.”

a. I know that the LORD has given you the land: This surprising outburst of faith shows how God had a plan in bringing Rahab and the spies together. It is the same kind of thing we see when God supernaturally brings us to people who are believers or open to the gospel.

b. Rahab’s declaration He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath is proof of her faith. It is not strong faith and it is not perfect faith, but her faith is commendable nonetheless (Hebrews 11:31 and James 2:25).

i. We may be appalled at the fact that Rahab was a prostitute, or that she was a liar. But the fact is that she was not saved by her works, but by her faith. She knew who God was, she knew who she was, and she trusted God for her very life.

c. That you also will show kindness to my father’s house: Rahab’s desire to see her family saved, and the length she goes to in order to save their lives shows that her love should be noticed, as well as her faith.

d. Swear to me by the LORD: This shows that Rahab longed for assurance by asked for an oath. She wanted to leave her sinful life and culture and come with God’s people.

2. (15-21) The means of Rahab’s salvation: the scarlet cord.

Then she let them down by a rope through the window, for her house was on the city wall; she dwelt on the wall. And she said to them, “Get to the mountain, lest the pursuers meet you. Hide there three days, until the pursuers have returned. Afterward you may go your way.” So the men said to her: “We will be blameless of this oath of yours which you have made us swear, unless, when we come into the land, you bind this line of scarlet cord in the window through which you let us down, and unless you bring your father, your mother, your brothers, and all your father’s household to your own home. So it shall be that whoever goes outside the doors of your house into the street, his blood shall be on his own head, and we will be guiltless. And whoever is with you in the house, his blood shall be on our head if a hand is laid on him. And if you tell this business of ours, then we will be free from your oath which you made us swear.” Then she said, “According to your words, so be it.” And she sent them away, and they departed. And she bound the scarlet cord in the window.

a. Bind this scarlet cord in the window: This was the signal to the army of Israel that the people in this home were to be spared. Despite Rahab’s desire, despite her faith, despite the promises of these spies, she would have perished unless she put her trust in a blood red cord cast down from her window. Without the scarlet cord, she could not have been saved.

i. As early as the first century, commentators such as Clement of Rome, Justin Martyr, Ireneaus, Origen and more saw this scarlet cord as a symbol of the blood of Jesus.

b. And she bound the scarlet cord in the window: Rahab immediately put her faith into both the identification and safety of the scarlet cord. She also trusted in the ones who made the promise about the scarlet cord (according to your words, so be it).

i. Joshua would be a savior for Rahab, but a judge of the rest of Jericho. In the same way Jesus is a savior for those who trust Him, but a judge for those who reject Him.

c. Rahab’s destiny was to marry one of the princes of Judah and be found in the lineage of King and David and Jesus Himself.

3. (22-24) Mission accomplished.

They departed and went to the mountain, and stayed there three days until the pursuers returned. The pursuers sought them all along the way, but did not find them. So the two men returned, descended from the mountain, and crossed over; and they came to Joshua the son of Nun, and told him all that had befallen them. And they said to Joshua, “Truly the LORD has delivered all the land into our hands, for indeed all the inhabitants of the country are fainthearted because of us.”

a. And told him all that had befallen them: Considering how God will have them conquer the city of Jericho, how did the information from these spies help in the battle for Jericho? Jericho was one of the strongest and most heavily fortified cities of Canaan; if Israel could conquer it, the whole land would be before them - but how did this reconnaissance help them with the eventual battle? It didn’t help them at all!

b. Truly the LORD has delivered all the land into our hands, for indeed all the inhabitants of the country are fainthearted because of us: The reconnaissance mission didn’t help with military strategy, but it did help in encouraging the faith of these spies and the whole nation. This was far more important than a good battle plan.

i. There was another purpose at work in sending the spies: to save Rahab. In this, we see the extent God goes to in bringing one woman and her father’s house to salvation - Someone seemingly “impossible” to save.

ii. You may know some that seem “impossible” to save, but God’s hand is not short to save people like Rahab, and He can work in amazing ways to bring salvation.

Bard wrote:

Do you feel men of God and or those that profess to be of the Lord - are sanctioned to pry into the private lives of anyone they chose - For whatever reason they deem appropriate?  

This wasn't directed at me but I will give my opinion on the question.

I would say most people or nations that spy aren't of God or even profess to be of The Lord.

This world we live in isn't sugar and spice and everything nice. Sometimes spying is needed, but like anything else it can and is misused.

Instead of a beast that is kept under control,it can rather become a beast that controls.

Jake Reason wrote:Thanks Nib, you've convinced me.  I've change my mind on investing the time to write about that complex subject here.  Be mindful where one trusts the value of pearls hard found.  Perhaps I'll save it for some other venue.

The up-side is that I have faced the reality of this forum.

What is the reality, exactly?

Bard wrote:

Jake Reason wrote:Thanks Nib, you've convinced me.  I've change my mind on investing the time to write about that complex subject here.  Be mindful where one trusts the value of pearls hard found.  Perhaps I'll save it for some other venue.

The up-side is that I have faced the reality of this forum.

What is the reality, exactly?

I think Jake believes it's much too time cosuming and would bear little if any fruit at this forum for now. At least that is how I read it.

Most of the readership are silent passengers, but you'd be really surprised at some of the distinct names who frequent our house and relish the various perspectives as they intertwine and interact.

I just met another this early AM...really early AM, lol via email.  My hat tip to him.

Cy

Edit to Add:

Wrt what ScaRZ posted about the woman in the biblical story just recently...

There are a couple of things which might add some dimension...the story of the woman mentions that later she was found in the geneologies of David, Jesus, et al.

Well there is something very Celtic seeming in the first part of the story and the insinuation that God intended her to become part of the story of his people, and that later she was found in t he geneologies.

In Celtic tradition, major alterations (and this may or may not apply as a more universal type characteristic of ancient cultures) in any human society, i.e. one people taking the helm for another group which absorbs the former or conquers them, is generally done following a form rite of passage...you see this in British Celtic story narratives where a special type of Queen - a queen of the soul of the land & its people...a hidden queen, not officially or publicly recognized must first give her consent or sanction to an event or alteration in the human narrative such as for a new King taking control of a people or tribe...the traditional pagan narrative being that the King-to-Be goes off into the wild or is guided by a wise man to meet with this Queen who evaluates the prospective leader.  If she approves she makes a formal act or sacrifice, i.e. sexual relations or a profound gift of a sacred object or fulfillment of Geis, sealing the deal and sanctioning that leader to his new state of power.  The hidden Queen wields the power of the Earth (combined collective consciousness of the biosphere) and without her sanction the alteration in the human experience or ascension to leadership cannot occur.

This is a part of the narrative at least figuratively in that story which I noticed because it is a theme I am accustomed to seeing.  Further depth on story narratives involving stories themselves (related to our current paradigm) and to the creation and realism of Heroes can be found in the following interview with a very curious writer, that I have found some interesting connections in (which may be essentially nothing, but they ring a certain kind of bell - Patrick please take note of this wrt our convo in pm today about the author and his works)

http://www.sfsite.com/10a/mc209.htm

For all others read down through the part about stories and heroes in relation to characters Hal and Hunter, where interesting correlation, via abstract symbolic facets and narratives, across our current paradigm converge in a set of deep points about humanity.

It is just a book, but....he's a Chadbourne - although not from Piscataqua, and if it were not for the same curious slant to his eyes I have, and the fact he's using mythical narratives involving the Dannan's that caused him to be brought to my attention, I might have chuckled and not looked closer.  And then I would never have noticed a good many things in his writings.  Lol, and that's before even finishing reading the books!

Oh well, nothing to see here, carry on. 

Cy

Bard wrote:
I realize you enjoy your one liners, and that is fine, but is there more in you than that?  Do you have a voice deeper than one liners?  I'm certain Scarz does not need someone to pat him on the back or to agree with him when he 'lays it out'.  Why don't you take some time to lay out your feelings and soul - like the many others here. You might actually find it - educational.  

"One liners"?    I don't have time to deal with this ridiculous post (the entire thing) tonight.

Let's be clear about one thing for now- when I went on my sabbatical some time ago from this place you for whatever reason fully encouraged me to not be here.   I didn't really understand it but more importantly did not really care what you said to me in PM.  

Here is the thing to get straight-  I only come here to see what ScaRZ is interested in.   I don't come here for your non stop ? mark ? mark ? mark.




I'll address your post this weekend.. .

Urggg....

I anxiously await your input.  Please illustrate why I led to you to consider your vacation also, if it is not too much hassle. I'd appreciate your analysis.

The Trio of Marks? Mark my words? Marking targets? Mark vs Quark?
Lost on your meaning.

ScaRZ wrote:

This wasn't directed at me but I will give my opinion on the question.

I would say most people or nations that spy aren't of God or even profess to be of The Lord.

This world we live in isn't sugar and spice and everything nice. Sometimes spying is needed, but like anything else it can and is misused.

Instead of a beast that is kept under control,it can rather become a beast that controls.

Thanks for your input, Scarz.
Appreciated.

Nib wrote:

Here is the thing to get straight-  I only come here to see what ScaRZ is interested in.   I don't come here for your non stop ? mark ? mark ? mark.                                                

I really enjoy you coming here "Nib" and wish more people would take part. If there's anything you have an interest in please feel free to lay it out.

"Bard" doesn't mind asking questions and that's fine with me. I may not always have the answers he is looking for but I do the best I can. I never answer questions attempting to please he or anyone else. I don't have all the answers but most of the time I will at least give my opinions.

Many times he helps open up a topic that I find needs to be talked about. Sometimes good things can grow from soil thought of as nothing but bleak and lifeless.

If you want to see the brave, look at those who can forgive.
If you want to see the heroic, look at those who can love in return for hatred.
Bhagavad-Gita

Your behavior is based upon your feelings, which are based on your thoughts. So the thing to work on is not to change your behavior, but those things inside of your consciousness that we call thoughts. Once your thoughts reflect what you genuinely want to be, the appropriate emotions and the consequent behavior will flow automatically. Believe it, and you will see it!
Wayne Dyer

All paths are the same; they lead nowhere. The question you must ask yourself is "Does this path have heart?"
Don Juan to Carlos Casteneda

“The most exquisite paradox… as soon as you give it all up, you can have it all. As long as you want power, you can't have it. The minute you don't want power, you'll have more than you ever dreamed possible.”
Ram Dass

"Intuition will tell the thinking mind where to look next."
- Jonas Salk


“If we manage conflict constructively, we harness its energy for creativity and development.”
Kenneth Kaye


IT's a process.    Cyrellys

And last but not least...

“Smooth seas do not make skillful sailors.”
African Proverb

For Nib & Bard with love.

Cy

I'm going to share again a dream I had a few years ago. I really don't know why it's been on my mind but I feel I need to post it once again.

--------------------------------------------------------

I was in an area that reminded me of a backroom of a large building. There was a large table in front of me and a little off to the right was a very large sink. A very beautiful lady with long black hair was standing in front of the sink and had something small in her hand.

I watched as she took what appeared to be a type of pill, placing it in her mouth and swallowing it. She then motioned for me to come over close to her. As I walked up next to her she ask me if I would please comfort her because she was about to get very sick.

Before I moved another inch she began to tremble and turned so pale it frightened me to the very core of my soul. She then hung her head over the sink and that's when I began to try and comfort her. I pulled her hair behind her head and gently stroked her head. She was so very sick and kept barfing up in the sink until the sickness finally past.

As soon as she pulled herself upright I could see she was glowing with happiness and appeared to have a great light around her.

She then reached in a pocket of her pants, pulled out another pill and ask me to take it. She held the pill out very close where I could see it.

The pill was in the shape of an hourglass and within the pill you could see the sand. When she flipped the pill over the sand would run as that through an hourglass.

She then told me that the pill would make me very sick after I took it but only a short time would pass and then great joy,comfort,peace,and love would follow.

Then for the very first time in the dream another lady appeared and told me I could handle taking the pill.

I remember feeling a fear of the sickness but desired what was to follow.

My eyes then opened from the dream.

*************************

I believe the dream was all about life in this world,death, and one day eteral life. The hourglass pill was the sands of life running out as time ticks away and leads to death in this life. In this world life will bring with it tribulation,heartache,sickness and death but after this fleshly life will come comfort,peace and true love.

She swallows the hourglass pill of life=she was born into this fleshly life. The sickness then followed a short time after her birth or taking the pill.

One day the sickness will finally pass from her as the hourglass sand runs to the bottom. Then she glows with a new light and life.

Sometimes we think with all the heartache that life isn't worth living,but the end result is worth all the heartache.

In other words the other woman that told me I could handle taking the pill was telling me I can handle the tribulations that will come from this life.

An unusual lenticular cloud formation, embedded within other clouds.

-----------------------------------------------




https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ufo-collective/lKy32vY2bUw

http://www.asia.si.edu/exhibitions/online/ITB/html/chronology.htm


CHRONOLOGY

ca. 600 B.C.E. | Ezra the Scribe reconstructs the Hebrew scriptures destroyed by the Babylonians
ca. 250 B.C.E. | Formation of the Septuagint commences; according to legend, with the Hebrew Torah translated into Greek in Alexandria at the command of Ptolemy II Philadelphus (285–246 B.C.E.)

ca. 3 B.C.E. | Birth of Christ

ca. 30 C.E. | Crucifixion of Christ

ca. 50–60 | First Christian texts (some of the Pauline Epistles) written

ca. 65–70 | Gospel of St. Mark composed

ca. 80–90 | Gospels of St. Matthew and St. Luke, and Acts of the Apostles composed

ca. 85–95 | Gospel of St. John composed

late 1st century | Other letters composed (of James, of Peter, of John, to the Hebrews)

ca. 95 | Apocalypse / Revelation of John composed

ca. 100 | Council of Jamnia determines the canonical text of the Hebrew Bible, known as the "Masoretic" text

ca. 125 | Earliest surviving manuscript of a gospel written (St. John, known from fragments)

second century | Old Testament books start to be individually translated from Hebrew into Syriac

first half 2nd century | Christian writings—letters, gospels, and apocalypses—multiply; Pauline Epistles circulate as a collection

ca. 180 | Irenaeus, bishop of Lyon, asserts the primacy of the four gospels (St. Matthew, St. Mark, St. Luke and St. John); Tatian, a Syrian, produces the Diatessaron, a single narrative drawn from the gospels and additional material

early 3rd century | Origen of Alexandria compiles a comparative edition of the Old Testament in Hebrew and Greek, the Hexapla

late 3rd century | St. Anthony retreats into the eastern desert of Egypt, beginning a trend towards ascetic desert monasticism

303 | Emperor Diocletian orders the destruction of Christian books during the "Great Persecution"

312 | Constantine sees a vision of the Cross and triumphs at the Battle of the Milvian Bridge

313 | Edict of Milan: Emperor Constantine grants freedom of worship throughout the Western Empire

early 4th century | Armenia becomes the first nation to adopt Christianity as its state religion; Gregory the Illuminator ordained bishop of Armenia (ca. 314); Christianity introduced to Ethiopia from Egypt

324 | Constantine defeats Emperor Licinius and reunites the Empire's two halves

325 | Council of Nicaea, the first ecumenical council, condemns Arianism

330 | Constantinople (now Istanbul) founded by Constantine as a bridgehead between East and West

332 | Constantine commissions Bishop Eusebius to supply the churches he has founded in Rome with complete Bibles

ca. 337 | Georgia accepts Christianity as its state religion

mid–4th century | Codex Sinaiticus, the earliest surviving complete Christian Bible, is made in Caesarea

363 | Council of Laodicea lists 26 canonical books for reading in church (omitting Revelation)

ca. 372 | St. Martin of Tours introduces monasticism to Europe

381 | First Council of Constantinople declares that that city exerts an equal authority in the East to that of Rome in the West

ca. 382 | St. Jerome enters the service of Pope Damasus and is commissioned to produce a Latin edition of the Bible—the Vulgate

383 | Death of Ulfilas, "Apostle to the Goths," who translated the Bible into the Gothic language

392 | Emperor Theodosius bans pagan worship, and Christianity effectively becomes the state religion of the Roman Empire

393 | Council of Hippo and Council of Carthage (397) both name the 27 books of the New Testament we know today

ca. 400 | Roman Empire begins to contract

5th century | Syriac translations of Old Testament and New Testament books combined to form the Peshitta,the standard text for Syriac-speaking Churches

early 5th century | Greek alphabet adapted by the missionary St. Mesrob to produce those of Armenia and Georgia

431 | Council of Ephesus condemns the views of Nestorius on the nature of Christ; Bishop Palladius is sent from Rome to believers in southern Ireland

451 | Council of Chalcedon condemns Monophysitism (the belief that Christ has only divine nature) and establishes five patriarchates—Constantinople, Rome, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem

ca. 460–90 | St. Patrick's mission from the northern British Church to Ireland

548–65 | Emperor Justinian founds the monastery now known as St. Catherine's on Mt. Sinai

ca. 529 | St. Benedict founds the monastery of Montecassino in Italy

563 | St. Columba leaves Ireland on voluntary exile to evangelize the Picts and the English, and founds the monastery of Iona in western Scotland

580 | Death of Cassiodorus, founder of the monastery called the Vivarium in southern Italy

588 | Patriarch John IV of Constantinople declares himself Ecumenical Patriarch, a title still retained by the leader of the Greek Orthodox Church

597 | Death of St. Columba; Pope Gregory the Great sends a Roman mission led by St. Augustine to Britain to convert the Anglo-Saxons

599 | Pope Gregory the Great sends a legate bearing gifts to Sinai

604 | Death of Pope Gregory the Great

ca. 610 | The Prophet Muhammad begins preaching in Mecca

615–17 | Paul of Tella makes the Syrohexapla, a translation into Syriac of Origen's Hexapla

635 | Monastery of Lindisfarne is founded in northeast England

ca. 641 | Islamic conquest of eastern and southern Mediterranean complete

687 | Death of St. Cuthbert of Lindisfarne

716 | Abbot Ceolfrith of Wearmouth–Jarrow sets off for Rome in retirement, taking one of three great complete bibles made by his community as a gift for the pope

720s–787 | Period of Iconoclasm in Byzantium

754/5 | Death of St. Boniface, "Apostle to the Germans," at Dokkum (now in The Netherlands)

735 | On his deathbed the scholar Bede, a monk at Wearmouth–Jarrow, translates St. John's Gospel into English

787 | Council of Nicaea reinstates the use of images in Byzantium

793 | Viking raids on Europe commence with the sacking of Lindisfarne

late 8th century | Theodulf of Orléans asserts the primacy of the word over images in his Libri carolini

800 | Emperor Charlemagne crowned in Rome, solemnizing the creation of a Carolingian Empire; Abbot Alcuin of Tours completes a single-volume edition of the Vulgate Bible, copied throughout the Carolingian Empire

814–43 | Resurgence of iconoclasm in Byzantium

869 | Byzantine Emperor Constantine sends St. Cyril as a missionary to the Slavs; Cyril invents the Glagolitic alphabet from which Cyrillic is descended

ca. 950–60 | Aldred glosses the Lindisfarne Gospels into Old English—the oldest surviving translation of the Gospels into English

ca. 962–1056 | Ottonian Empire succeeds the Carolingian in Europe

The Hagmann & Hagmann Report with John B. Wells

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/cfp-radio/2014/02/01/the-hagmann-hagmann-report-with-john-b-wells


Direct Link

http://blogtalk.vo.llnwd.net/o23/show/5/911/show_5911103.mp3

Cy wrote:Re: Uncommon Thoughts on Common Things - Cyrellys
Post on Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:55 pm by Cyrellys (Online)

For anyone who missed it, John B Wells was fired from C2C.  David Hodges does quite the dress down of C2C here:  http://thecommonsenseshow.com/2014/02/06/john-b-wells-fired-for-being-too-popular-and-truthful-an-exclusive-interview/

Wells is starting his own show.  Caravan to Midnight.

I missed it since I haven't been a listener since Bell sold out to the corporatist Premier/aka Clear Channel.  The few shows I'd listened to were exactly as David describes.  It was like C2C had been neutered.  I'd heard good things about Wells and have seen him interviewed in a few places which was interesting but I never got around to returning to C2C myself.

***

wrt the timeline:

Cy - Uncommon Thoughts on Common Things wrote: Year 314 Council of Arles - ties to today's situation

Re: Uncommon Thoughts on Common Things - Cyrellys
Post on Sun Jan 26, 2014 3:04 am by Cyrellys (Online)
A book I would like to lay hands on and read:  Ever Ancient Ever New - Celtic Spirituality in the 20th Century by Delores T Whelan

and more on Pelagius and Pelagianism

particularly as pertains to comparison with Deism and concepts employed by the Founders & the Old Irish side of the concept of the Third Option

http://www.seanmultimedia.com/Pie_Pelagius_Letters.html

"Let them also read my recent little treatise which we were obliged to publish a short while ago in defense of free will,
and let them acknowledge how unfair is their determination to disparage us for a denial of grace, when we throughout
almost the whole work acknowledge fully and sincerely both free will and grace." ~ Pelagius

I've been looking at the roots of the ideas that formed the Third Option in its many facets. I traced some of those ideas back to several sets

There were in the early broadcasts of these ideas several groups of people whose experiences went into them:

The Ascetic Tradition with the Ionians, Cistercian, and Ceile De groups who mixed to varying degrees] with the living tradition the druidic led older culture. Ideas from these groups can be found in both the Laconian contribution and the Mason/Templar.  (Third Option)

Well, looking over these groups brought up a discovery of an accusation made in 314 at the Council of Arles which showed something peculiar in the beliefs of monastic leaders of the Isles.

That at least some of those (representatives) from the Isles present (at the meeting) may have been open practitioners of Pelagian concepts which focused on the concept of Free Will existing and working in tandem with Grace. Something we see in the beliefs of several of the Founders and in the principles that are part of the operation of the Third Option.

(Addendum:  In the roots of both Laconian /Old Irish circa 1623 to present/, and /Masonic/Templar tradition circa 1724 - 1800/, the term 'Grace' has an additional connotation:  "Fall from Grace" includes the dual meaning of specifically the collapse of the last technological high civilization on Earth which was space travel capable & integrated in the Greater Community to some degree - this extraneous connotation is part of the 'tiered style' /modern term/ of thinking communicating from that time period where terms often held two or more referential meanings that added depth and breadth to their dialogs and efforts, and which sometimes adds confusion to accounts.)

Not being what anyone could call well read in biblical or doctrinal arguments, I stumbled across this one completely by accident, following synchronistic bread crumbs of recreational inquiry. The short description is that I had a 'wow' moment as I looked at an accusation attributed to Germanus of Auxarre leveled at the british contingent attending the event.

Edit to add:

Definition: Third Option = construct devised by a working group within the colonial founders of the US who were 'informed' about the generational corruption, ET Contact, and Earths post apocalyptic post tech civilization "fall from grace". Construct was devised to chaperon current edition of civilization through the next 500 years to practice and prove Theorem on Free Will & Self Governance thus establishing the viability of the 'template' for a future 'global governance' for the People, of the People, by the People.

This is a construct that was held within the creation of this nation under the care of several of the most well known founders & associates including Washington, Jefferson, and others not on the public list. There were three powers at work during that time...one was the teamed Laconian/Masonic/Paine, another was a provincial for lack of a better term, and the third was a colonial branch of the fledgling illuminists who desired centralization and connection to the fledgling central banking being established in Britain.

So when I say the origins and outcome of the creation of the nation (representation of the multifaceted template) could have gone either direction (upright or corrupt) at any time in its history and has indeed swung back and forth like a pendulum over its existence, this is what I mean. It wasn't till the last 100 years starting just a bit prior to the institution of the Federal Reserve, that the pendulum actually got stuck in one nature.