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» best possible world
Persons within the substance of love.   - Page 21 Icon_minitimeToday at 8:44 am by dan

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Persons within the substance of love.   - Page 21 Icon_minitimeSun Oct 03, 2021 10:54 am by aaron

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Persons within the substance of love.   - Page 21 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 06, 2021 10:37 pm by U

Who's Disclosure is Disclosure?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:16 am by Cyrellys

The narrative war is in full swing. When there's a 100 different competing narratives, how is it possible to discern a disclosure?

Is it akin to which truth is Truth?




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Persons within the substance of love.

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Post by dan Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:25 am

First topic message reminder :

(‘first topic message reminder.......’)

Once again, I attempt to bring the conversation back to Personalism......

Disclosure is simply going to underscore the infinite worth and potential of every sapient creature, ie, person.  Anything other than that is simply false.
...........


(Please keep in mind the links given in the fifth post on this thread......

https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t313-three-in-one )



Last edited by dan on Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:28 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by AtomicBrando Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:19 pm

mion wrote:Muppets on a stick:


There was never a chain made that could tether this goat, it was up and out.

Very synchronistic to my other discussions today.

On it mion.
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Post by Z Thu Jul 05, 2018 7:06 pm



I choose love ...


Last edited by AP on Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by smelly da goat Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:21 pm

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Post by aaron Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:29 pm

AP sounds just like De Jesus



AP, that's just like your opinion man...

You moral muppet you. Wink

The Dude Abides
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Post by AtomicBrando Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:46 pm

The trees are up to something, but I’ll never tell.

I will be using three colors, they will never be alone again.

It doesn’t matter what they want.

It’s not all about you, Mountain.

Painting was invented by a tiny bird who wanted to be rich.

I went to school with that cloud...

Today we will paint a Mountain that owes us nothing.

I pick up my painting weapons...

What else does this painting need....well of course, it needs U!

I will paint you on top of the mountain.

There, now you are at peace, but you are leaking paint.

If you need help, ask the cloud...

But the cloud won’t help U.
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Post by mion Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:17 pm

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Post by GSB/SSR Thu Jul 05, 2018 9:54 pm

You are a Simulation & Physics Can Prove It: George Smoot at TEDxSalford

https://youtu.be/Chfoo9NBEow


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Post by Z Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:32 am

❤️❤️❤️

I'd rather be a fool for love, than "wise" for any other reason....


"Sheeeeeeema Yisrael adonai eloheinu, adonai echad,
Baruch sheim k'vod malhuto l'olhim vaed"
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Post by ParanoidFactoid Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:49 am

GSB/SSR wrote:You are a Simulation & Physics Can Prove It: George Smoot at TEDxSalford

https://youtu.be/Chfoo9NBEow

Gary,

I'd like to point out, Smoot's analysis relies on the presumption that brains are not just computational systems BUT can also be simulated using Turing machines. That is, brains are entirely classical systems. And that mapping neuronal interconnections and hidden weights and executing these systems in any computational substrate is the same as whatever process underlies consciousness itself.

Yet, if that's true, there would be no way for consciousness to impact or manipulate a holographic reality. So Dan's BPW hypothesis would be out. Penrose's quantum brains would be out. As well as Sarfatti's extensions to that. Puthoff and Targ would have chased false ghosts. And there would be nothing beyond the Copenhagen Interpretation and GR to unify.

There are a lot of hard AI folks who adhere to this belief. We'll see if the simulacra they create are anything like life itself.
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Post by Bubbles! Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:41 am

;


Last edited by Bubbles! on Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:30 am; edited 5 times in total
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Post by GSB/SSR Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:11 am

ParanoidFactoid wrote:
GSB/SSR wrote:You are a Simulation & Physics Can Prove It: George Smoot at TEDxSalford

https://youtu.be/Chfoo9NBEow

Gary,

I'd like to point out, Smoot's analysis relies on the presumption that brains are not just computational systems BUT can also be simulated using Turing machines. That is, brains are entirely classical systems. And that mapping neuronal interconnections and hidden weights and executing these systems in any computational substrate is the same as whatever process underlies consciousness itself.

Yet, if that's true, there would be no way for consciousness to impact or manipulate a holographic reality. So Dan's BPW hypothesis would be out. Penrose's quantum brains would be out. As well as Sarfatti's extensions to that. Puthoff and Targ would have chased false ghosts. And there would be nothing beyond the Copenhagen Interpretation and GR to unify.

There are a lot of hard AI folks who adhere to this belief. We'll see if the simulacra they create are anything like life itself.

Sarfatti believes his extension of the Bohm pilot wave theory will allow for the above; so yes, from the extended QM point of view (Penrose, Sarfatti, Gao and many others) the uploading of minds may be possible, assuming new physics (new physics is a near certainty given all of the unexplained problems OR perhaps the new physics is actually the physics running the simulation we live in!) ... it's simulations not turtles all the way down!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down


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Post by GSB/SSR Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:20 am

BPWSH = Best Possible World Simulation Hypothesis (where we hope and pray for the best possible simulation manager looking out for our personal interests). I gather that in Dan's (wealy wealy small!) Best Possible World the simulation manager's job is rather personal. So does that mean persons all the way down?


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Post by whoknows Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:44 am

Good morning birds, good morning trees, good morning muppets.

Hope it's another beautiful day within you and without.

Dan wrote:And please tell us, wk, the nature of love.

My point was that no one knows. We can know Barbelo, Forethought, but not the wherewithal to know the Progenitor. At least that's what the old Gnostic's said.

Dan wrote:Dreamtime

Is very very old. ONE the earliest recorded efforts of human kind desire to understand.

PD wrote:with that, why don't we all just accept that everything, every thought, feeling, impulse that precedes language is lie. OK?

Well, lets be kind to our selves and say inaccuracies. Lies seems to harsh.


Last edited by whoknows on Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:11 am; edited 3 times in total
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Post by Sign Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:49 am

Morning.. Its mid afternoon...  Very Happy



Sign
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Post by whoknows Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:56 am

I hear the UK is stewing in their own juices.pirat
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Post by Sign Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:08 am

its another 1976.. 

we have had at least 3 weeks of 20= 25 degree in the north east .. 

the cockney's have been getting 25 - 32 degrees.. 

i can not remember a year like this for a long time.. .. and i'm 55.. 


The world must be coming to an end..  Very Happy and the Devil is preparing his  ground for a come back..


Sign..
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Post by whoknows Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:16 am

Sign,

Been around 35-36+ where I am, and that ain't to bad really... Better than 38 or 39.

Thursday, July 5, brought Ouargla, Algeria. Africa its hottest reliably measured temperature on record: 124.3°F (51.3°C),
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Post by 99 Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:45 am

Yes, we live in a simulation where everything is predetermined. And everyone, every now and then, may momentarily even dwell on that when synchronicities occur in their lives or when they intuitively sense that something will happen that's totally outside of their normal everyday conscious thinking processes that ends up actually happening. And sometimes information like that comes to us in our dreams or from something that we perceive is outside of us... or even in us in the form of our 'higher selves'

Does sh#t just happen or is the script already written? In a simulated world, it's already written but is there other parallel simulated worlds created as alternative universes based on whatever decision we make as an individual or as a group, a nation and so on... ?

And do we, as individuals switch over to another simulated world due to whatever action we take as a result of a decision?

This is not to say that free will exists because when we switch over to another parallel world, we are still living in a world that is scripted.... just like the one we were in before.

Bottom line: We live in a deterministic universe. No matter what parallel universe we are dwelling in, at any given time, everything is predetermined.


Last edited by 99 on Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by murnut Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:54 am

https://youtu.be/RKRksnjSxWI

Sent from Topic'it App
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Post by dan Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:04 am

I had lengthy conversations this morning with both PF and AP......

...... mostly about simulations and persons.  

AP mentioned the ‘exploits’ of video games...... another way to think of portals.  

We also attempted an analysis of Ron’s game plan.

Also some speculation about TTSA.


..... otl .......


Last edited by dan on Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by ParanoidFactoid Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:08 am

GSB/SSR wrote:
ParanoidFactoid wrote:
GSB/SSR wrote:You are a Simulation & Physics Can Prove It: George Smoot at TEDxSalford

https://youtu.be/Chfoo9NBEow

Gary,

I'd like to point out, Smoot's analysis relies on the presumption that brains are not just computational systems BUT can also be simulated using Turing machines. That is, brains are entirely classical systems. And that mapping neuronal interconnections and hidden weights and executing these systems in any computational substrate is the same as whatever process underlies consciousness itself.

Yet, if that's true, there would be no way for consciousness to impact or manipulate a holographic reality. So Dan's BPW hypothesis would be out. Penrose's quantum brains would be out. As well as Sarfatti's extensions to that. Puthoff and Targ would have chased false ghosts. And there would be nothing beyond the Copenhagen Interpretation and GR to unify.

There are a lot of hard AI folks who adhere to this belief. We'll see if the simulacra they create are anything like life itself.

Sarfatti believes his extension of the Bohm pilot wave theory will allow for the above; so yes, from the extended QM point of view (Penrose, Sarfatti, Gao and many others) the uploading of minds may be possible, assuming new physics (new physics is a near certainty given all of the unexplained problems OR perhaps the new physics is actually the physics running the simulation we live in!) ... it's simulations not turtles all the way down!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

Yes. But that's not classical computation. Sarfatti (et all) is proposing quantum computation. Which is a different animal. But he makes a leap which I'm not sure is true. And that's the presumption that any quantum computer is a universal quantum computing engine and therefore would be functionally the same computationally as the kind of Penrose microtubule style biological computation. And that's not necessarily the case. Furthermore, even if it is the case, that doesn't mean we'd understand how to program a quantum computer to perform the same computations as biology does.

Here's Ed Farhi giving a Google lecture about quantum computing algorithms about ten years back.



It's a very good lecture and I'm not sure much has changed since. But the takeaway is, there aren't too many quantum algorithms that have been discovered. So even if you have the hardware, on the software side there's a lot of basic research still to be done in order to learn how to program these things with a real performance boost over classical computing.

So: We don't know if quantum computing is necessary for consciousness. If it is, we don't know what kinds of quantum computations - algorithms - are performed by biological systems. And even if - when - that's untangled (cough!), we don't know if man made quantum computers are functionally similar enough to biological systems in order to translate algorithms from one hardware substrate to the next.

So, Jack might say, 'I have a back-action theoretical model which I believe allows for machine consciousness.' And I think the Sarfatti/Sutherland stuff is pretty interesting. But even so, it's another big leap to go from that to building a piece of hardware that might replicate biological systems. Even assuming, we had nanotechnology capable of its manufacture.

And I'm not saying this to shit on you or Jack. Not at all.
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Post by AtomicBrando Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:18 am

haha, this is a funny place
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Post by ParanoidFactoid Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:22 am

AtomicBrando wrote:haha, this is a funny place

Yeah. Muppets all the way down.

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Post by smelly da goat Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:23 am

Very complicated 99.

Let’s keep it simple.

There is this.

What are you going to do with it?

Relax into it maybe.

APretender will have no fun or relaxing.

He has missed the beat.

He’s on a serious mission.

Actually, he is here for me to poop on.

Trust no goat or pretender or wizard or princess or fool.

Trust your self 100%.
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Post by 99 Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:33 am

AP was asking in a couple of his You Tube vids on why UFOs always show up as technology that our world ends up creating in the near future. Here's his decription of what's in that vid on that YouTube page:
AP wrote:UFOs seem to constantly reflect near future technologies… And it has to make you wonder why. Is it because they are time travelers? Or is it a nearby breakaway civilization that is several hundred years more advanced than us? Or is an extraterrestrial race leading us down a path to increase our technological growth rate? The intelligence behind UFOs seems to be coyly leading us through a technological script... they were flying around as airships just before we had our inflatable air ships, there were rockets with smoke behind them as UFOs before we created real rockets with smoke behind them , triangles before our triangles and so on

Here's a link to that vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_GltKB14RI

I posted a comment on that in an attempt to give one possible explanation for that phenomenon:

"Maybe the answer to your questions AP is a question.... Is the universe deterministic? Is everything preordained or do things happen randomly and by chance? And on our end, does free will exist? Maybe it doesn't. Allow me to continue....
Supposing the universe really is deterministic and UFOs and how, as you have shown, keep showing up as technology that will be created by our world in the near future is meant to be a message to us, from celestial intelligence's that, in fact, everything in our world and the universe is preordained."

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