Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

First topic message reminder :

dan wrote:Cy,

I'm not in favor of guns, but I understand that some folks need that extra sense of security.  

Yesterday we were at the national Cathedral doing the flower market for Kashmir-Rose.  Today we are headed to a WCUAVC flight day at a school down here.  


Was looking at the connection between India and Greece back in the day.  In fact there was a Greco-Indian empire, created by Alexander the Great.  The mutual influence



(cont.)

Well guns have their place, but that wasn't the point...the point was that Hillary equates gun possession with violent individuals or groups and I think I quite clearly illustrated the problem with that kind of thinking by saying I've never been responsible for hurting someone.

I'm not a violent person and my record attests to that. Hillary however is responsible for the deaths of two exemplary military members and one Ambassador, all by design. She also responsible for the arrests and loss of career of one General and one Admiral who attempted to send in a rescue party. They would have been successful in the rescue and then the creation of ISIS and the gun running that contributed to it would have been exposed. Nothing like wiping the proof of criminal wrong doing off the map to protect your own arse Hildebeast? Like any of us would forget and forgive her? Hillary apparently doesn't own guns and yet she's been responsible for the ending of at least three lives and two careers. She's five ahead of this gun owner. And that's just what we happen to know about. There's rumors her and her prior hubby were involved in the drug trade of Arkansas and S. America...then there's China and Walmart. I could go on but what's the point. Truth is too old fashioned and justice is also out-dated.

I'm a celt so truth and justice is not a cultural trait in the eyes of the modern umbrella society which refuses to acknowledge those traits as part of the nation's psyche, but rather as a personal neurosis that they'd probably insist a straightjacket and heavy medication be applied to if I were within reach in DC. Truth and justice equals neurosis? What kind of thinking is that?!! But that's the spew emerging from orgs like DHS since its inception. So when it comes to commentary, turn-about-is-fair-play. They and their flunkies make snide comments about us and we return the favor.

>>>on India and Greece...look at the Sanskrit language and old greek. Then compare it to Old Irish. Fascinating? Now look at some of the ideas each culture valued...same again. All three have same root system. Ah but why would anyone care about the legacy of the elder gods? 'er ET and the seeding of civilizations? Virmana are inconveniences...ah! and there once was one in the vicinity of Fermoy Eire of all places! That is if you can take the Christian overlay off the history.

>>> on the subject of the Glyphs:

432 Mystery

432 Mystery: the first lesson - the Abducted Preceptor

DR...... desert rendezvous......

How many folks have wandered out into the desert looking for some kind of rendezvous.....?  Thousands?  I'd guess that it would be closer to millions.  How is this any different?  

For you..... it's no different from all those other millions of rumors.  

For me...... it is different, but mainly by degree.  In for a nickel, in for a dime.... or maybe a dollar.  

And what if nothing materializes?  How big a dent would it put in the BPWH?  Depends......  on too many other variables.  

I'm just following my protocol.  I hardly have any choice but to keep telling what I hear, and to keep speculating within certain bounds.  My particular bounds are pretty well specified by the BPWH/SWH/CTC.  

There are long established ufo rumor mills.  They just would keep getting cranked up.  We have acclimation on steroids.  The government gets to butt out.... bow out.  The POTUS...... no comment...... have fun, boys and girls.  

My job is to have a front row seat.  The long established R&D show allows me to be front and center, much of the time, as long as Ron follows his protocol.  Then we have to figure out whether the BPWH baggage should have any relevance to any of this other stuff.  Maybe yes.... maybe no.  


10:30/9:30edt----------

Eric and I were on the phone for a couple of hours, last evening.  

As usual, while I had him on the phone, I could cajole him into being on the same page.  

I put it this way......

Did he and his tea party (ayahuasca) friends mind too much if the PtB muscled in on their little party.... the more, the merrier..... assuming that we're talking about similar types of encounter.... indoor/outdoor?  

I mean couldn't the two encounter initiatives be, somehow, complementary?  

And then we have the economic issues, not very far in the background.....

Globalization was going pretty well, based on the assumption of infinite resources.  But, maybe, we're now running into the limits to material/quantitative growth.  

Then we start transitioning from a free enterprise, expanding economy, into a rent economy, based on limitation.  

Encounters, indoor/outdoor, point to a bigger playing field, with a rather different set of rules.  Yes?  

Yes, there will, of necessity, be a changing of the guard.  How likely is that to come voluntarily?  I'm quite sure that Cy would be quite skeptical.  So would be most others.  Will there not have to be a Tribulation?  Isn't that what Jesus told us, in so many words?  

And his words were the word of God?  Yes, the God of history.  Jesus was the historical incarnation.  Jesus' words were intended to have an historical context.  


noon/11edt---------

God's word is also eternal.  True enough.  Jesus is also eternal.  Jesus is the Logos...... spermatikos.  Jesus is the Word and the Way.  

The Holy Bible is the Eternal Word of God......?  I'm a self-admitted Jesus freak.  I say that Jesus is the Eternal Word of God.  Slight difference.  

I have been going to an evangelical church.  Most of us believe in the Big Bang.  I don't.  There are very, very few 'educated' Christians left, who do not.  

Where did I get my SWH notion from?  Partly from the Bible.  Does that make me more Bible oriented than most of my fellow Christians.  Actually, yes, it does.  It makes me more discerning w.r.t. the Word.  

I plan to say those very words to JP Kahnert, when we meet next week to discuss the conditions for my return to GFC.  


So, what was this about......?  It was about the Tribulation.  I'm saying that, in the last two millennia, we've had enough tribulation to last for eternity.  Remember, Jesus was operating under the timeframe of his being the last generation.  It turned out that there were to be eighty more generations.  Had God told him that, I seriously doubt that Chistianity would ever have arisen.  Too bad?  Maybe.  Maybe we're about to find out.  

That is the bottom line, here.  

And all of this depends upon whether we, our acquaintances, will be encountering ETs or UTs.  There is room for ambiguity here.  If I were running this show, I'd leave the ambiguity door open for as long as possible..... ALAP is likely to be measured in months, at most.  


1pm/noon(EDT)----------

JP is a somewhat formidable figure.  I wouldn't want a patsy.  The new senior pastor should not need to confront CL.  CL does have his moments.  

I'm here to finish saving the world.  Yes, it has already been saved, but..... the fat lady needs to sing.  Don't I look a lot like the fat lady?  

It looks like I might be coming in on queue.  I'd hate to miss my queue.  I'd much rather be too early than too late.  

Jesus sure managed to hit all his queues, in only one respect might he have been deemed too early, by 79 generations.   I hope we can look back on those extra generations as having been well spent.  It was freebie. We must have been hitting our queues. Were we given a choice? Might we have failed? I'm not a professional philosopher, even though I might have to play one, on tv. I do know, though, that there are many hairs, there, to split. Be my guest.



(cont.)

I love you Dan.

The man with a plan.

Cajole, pfffttt! I play you like a violin.

I'm 50/50 anyone could be the Jman or more appropriately, the J-woman

Well, maybe its 60/40 for in your case. Time or a few miracles will tell.

Perhaps time has run out and I was here to see it live.

Hmm, I am happy to play the everyman observer.

We do like our stories, don't we.

Hmmm.........

My dear Eric, me thinks 'tis a bit early for high fives.  

But I would prefer high-fives to brick-bats, thank you very much.  

Yes, I'm the wannabe fat lady.  When my service option expires, is preempted, I'll try not to cry too much.  I've given a few folks a run for their money.  

Yes, it is my story, and I'm sticking to it, until I see something that makes more sense.  Miracles?  Nah.  That was for another time and place.  Let's see if we can move beyond that.  Phenomena?  I think there will be enough phenomena to go around, but I'm content to let others be their amanuensis.  Not my job.  


5:30ft(forum time)/4:30---------

Ron continues to be circumspect about the agenda of this meeting in the desert. It's about trying to resolve an old issue. The are six of ours, no surprises, and an unspecified number of the others. Were the others like visitors? No intelligible response.

There is a definite protocol, and the one of ours, who seemed untrustworthy w.r.t. to it, was disinvited.

Why would I be interested in this meeting? Might it have anything to do with September? No discernible response.

There you have it. Lean pickin's.



(cont.)

I conceeded nothing nor offered to give a high 5  I just think you are sweet wanting to save the world crazy or not. I only think we are a little crazy. How could we not be?

Hafiz wrote:TRIPPING OVER JOY

What is the difference
Between your experience of Existence
And that of a saint?

The saint knows
That the spiritual path
Is a sublime chess game with God

And that the Beloved
Has just made such a Fantastic Move

That the saint is now continually
Tripping over Joy
And bursting out in Laughter
And saying, “I Surrender!”

Whereas, my dear,
I am afraid you still think
You have a thousand serious moves

Have some fun, I AM.

You mean like how the j-man laughed all the way to the cross? And remember my dad..... known as smiley Smith.

It is a shadow day when Joy causes one pain. I like to think the Jman laughed a lot, at himself mostly.

Muslims believe that he laughed on the cross. There are accounts of 'witches' laughing while being immolated.

Life, though, has not been a laughing matter, for the vast majority of us. Try not to be elitist, spiritually or otherwise. Ok?

I thought TRIPPING OVER JOY captured it perfectly. That is not elitist. Obviously, a sore spot for you.

Truth is truth. And Yeah, I'm fucking laughing, like a lot. Just because you don't feel like it, I won't stop saying it. I do not diminish other's suffering, I suffer. I can understand it compassionately, but Joy is out there, waiting.

Ok, so you're ahead of the game. Are you going to help the rest of us catch up, or not?

Laughing on the cross is ten steps ahead. That's simply not reachable, by the people who will need desperately to be reached.

This is not a flying contest. It's a running race, a marathon.

People are worn out.

Let them have something they can grab onto.

The BPWH is virtually in the clouds. Don't make it harder than it has to be. Please......

I wasn't saying that to everyone, I was saying that to YOU!

You and I are flowing in something I have come to understand as flow magick, a highly synchronistic state of grace.

It’s kind of like living in a lucid dream. You suddenly get that the whole play is yours to act out while at the same time you are the script writer and director. To play with God as God, what a trip.

Yes, I'm helping and will continue to.

I know to be gentle with people. Really, learning that.

John Wheeler wrote:We are participants in bringing into being not only the near and here, but the far away and long ago.

Adyashanti wrote:Awakened, life can drive itself so much easier—it can flow in ways you never imagined. Life becomes almost magical. The illusion of the “me” is no longer in the way. Life begins to flow.”

Osho wrote:Don’t seek, don’t search, don’t ask, don’t knock, don’t demand ~ relax. If you relax it comes, if you relax it is there. If you relax, you start vibrating with it.

Nisargadatta wrote:Whatever happens, happens to you by you, through you; you are the creator, enjoyer and destroyer of all you perceive.

Flow Magic is a sweet spot between surrender to life as it unfolds and participating full on at the same time. There IS agency.

You begin to notice that your point of view is everything. You begin to observe that your life is playing out without you and with you, and the midline between full agency and zero agency, it that Flow Magic state of grace.

You begin to remember the future. You notice there is barely a delay between the wish and the wish-fullfilled when those wishes are borne from your True Self. Physicist Amit Goswami calls this your Quantum Self and the process of true wishes flowing into being, Quantum Creativity.

From the higher mind, there is a new kind of desire and living. It's not name it claim it, it's like, align with the source and receive and give what you need and have to give. It is simplicity.

That doesn't all sound so terrible does it? It is coming in the awareness of all who want to receive it.

This is the Way and it is a hell of a lot of fun. I'm not so scared of this big change. I think people will surprise you and rise to meet themselves in the clouds. I really do.

... it may be that 'self aware' matter has an impact that the rest of non-self aware matter don't .... 

Perhaps the collective self awareness of a universe of aspects of matter that are self aware, that can recognize and examine its own condition as matter ..

.. mountains do not build telescopes, and perhaps they dont need to .... but that bit of self aware matter we are most familiar with does, at least collectively ..... it, Humanity, builds telescopes on mountains and sends other telescopes into space to try to understand our place in the universe and any meaning that might have ...

But given the rarity of self aware matter on our own planet it may be that with a universe teeming with self aware matter it all, never the less, makes up but a microcosmic amount of matter per se, self aware or not .... which leads us to consider that self aware matter's observations of itself over trillions and trillions of years might introduce an, at this point, unknown variable into the math .......

That is, while no individual person, self aware matter is, or can be, greater than the whole the whole may be greater than the sum of its parts .... the awareness of matter throughout the universe may have an effect on the universe's evolution .... perhaps ..... the forces are just that delicately balanced that mere awareness of them is enough to change them .... affect them in unpredictable ways...

And then when you have mastered Joy, flow and synchronicity having a lot of FUN, you can become a baby Ninja:

http://giphy.com/gifs/kill-bill-ninja-toddler-baby-3oEdv2GSuTZdK5Ej6M/fullscreen

Eric,

You are explicating your own worldview.  I don't see that it bears any resemblance to, or makes any useful contrast with, the BPWH. You have simply gone off on your own tangent.

Don't you think it would make more sense for you to be working out your views in your own section?

I find that I have nothing useful to say about what you have written above.  It's not something I have any urge to respond to.  

Nor does it appear to be responsive to anything I have said.  

I believe it would be more helpful to us, and to any readers, if you had your own section.  Yes?  

Thanks.

Peace dude.

Thank you, Eric.  

We have had many helpful conversations.  The phenomena that you encounter with your group in the 'Tea' ceremony have similarities to phenomena that folks may encounter in other states of consciousness.  Your insights can be very useful.  

There is no reason that we should not have parallel threads here at OM.  Also, a continuing resource will be your prose/poetry at Quantum Underground.

And, when the spirit moves, I'm sure you will have additional material to helpfully/hopefully contribute to this thread, as well.
----------

Yes, right now, the biggest thing on my small horizon will be my meeting with JP of GFC, sometime in the next week.  What would be my business with GFC.....?

GFC has a statement of faith, which includes the spiritual inerrancy of the Bible.  I readily subscribe.  

Then comes the matter of Young Earth and Old Earth beliefs......

Not a spiritual matter........?  

True, not in a world in which matter and spirit can be compartmentalized.  This may or may not be such a world.  

There has always been an immaterialist streak within the various spiritual traditions.  There are two primary traditions, which might, somewhat arbitrarily, be identified as the prophetic/theist tradition and the pantheist/non-dualist tradition.    

Ne'er the twain shall meet.....?

True, given the correspondence theory of truth and history.  

However, if there exists such a thing as Truth, proper, wherein Truth is a coherent whole, then those other bets are off the table.  

IOW, the CorTT assumes that the world is composed of a set of independent, absolute facts.  The CohTT says.... not so fast.....

The CohTT points out that there is, indeed, a world, a whole, the sum total of all the facts.  

CohTT assumes that this world is more like a great thought than a great machine.  

When we look around us, at nature, geology and astronomy, it is very difficult to find any substantial evidence for spirit or mind.  There are many intelligent, educated individuals who can readily suppose that mind is an illusion.  

That would constitute the core belief of the CorTT.  

There is a philosophical dichotomy between these two theories of truth.  They cannot be given equal billing, not within any logical frame of reference.  

Nonetheless, the prophetic/theistic tradition has attempted to do precisely that, especially over the last four hundred years.  This philosophical/theological departure was inaugurated by the Cartesian split between mind and body.  It was like the judgement of Solomon.... how, in this instance, both 'mothers', both science and religion, leapt upon the opportunity to sequester their God given portion of the Truth.  

I am simply, at this juncture in the history of the world, claiming, on behalf of the father and the son, to be the true mother of the truth, the spirit of the truth, if you will.  

In some very strong sense, the proposed healing of this four hundred year rift in the truth will constitute the MoAPS, the mother of all paradigm shifts.  


12:45ft/11:45edt---------

It is the MoAPS that I'll propose to JP/GFC/SfA as the substitute for the Tribulation.  

Sounds like apples and oranges......

The MoAPS will be an internalized/spiritualized Tribulation, but, like the traditional notion of the Tribulation, this internalized tribulation will be playing out on a global stage.  There will be no other event in history that comes close to being as globally dramatic as this will be, in real time.  

This is CL's answer to the Tribulation.  

The RD, rendezvous in the desert.......?  

The RD could be a rather significant marker in the run up to Disclosure/Revelation.  Am I putting that much faith in some very sketchy information from Catfish?  No, but I also don't want to be left behind.  That's not in my protocol.  


3:30ft/2:30edt---------

I'm putting my faith in the larger process, in the BPWH.  That's definitely worth sticking my neck out for.  How far do you want me to stick it out?  

Yes, we do avoid the WH.  I'm sure that the POTUS is on the side of the light.  Donald......?  I wouldn't mind seeing him bite the big one, the dust, if you will.  

IOW, I wouldn't mind being able to ride into sunset, being about the only one to know that the BPWH was in the bag.  The only good saint is a dead saint.  

Don't I already know it?  Pretty much.  Anything more would border on the anti-climatic, but, I could use a little anti-climax.  Poor Eric, I don't think, in retrospect, he had a clue.  If he did, it scared the stuffing right out of him.  

In retrospect, what was the smoking gun.....?  

It was the AP.  Soon, however, came the Multiverse.  Some of the wind in the sails of the SAP was knocked out by the WAP, not for me, but for everyone else, who was not ready for the MoAPS.  With the WAP, everyone else, in the physics community, had an excuse to not stick their neck out.  It was obviously a rearguard strategem of the katechon.  

Then came the mind/brain business.  That had always been a slow burner.  SAI provided the same katechonic services as the WAP.  There was always plenty of cover for the faint of heart.  

Then, along in 1981 came my MoAPS, simply out of the Kit Williams book of paintings.  That was my chicken little moment.  Not much happened until the spring of '91.  My personal cover was removed, but Ron became my katechon, in a good way, I suppose.  Trust me, all katechons are put down for a reason.  

Then what....... the two biggies were the SSCI and 9/11.  I can't think of anything else that truly stands out.  I was kept pretty well occupied, being unemployed and all.  After that, it was really just phases of the internet.... BPW, and OMF 1&2.  Pretty boring for the spectators, obviously, but it always kept me entertained.... my personal echo chamber cum katechon.  

I'm feeling pretty laid back.  I even have my prvt meditation spot cum dunce's seat next to the guard house at the front gate of the WH.  It's almost like it has my name on it.  

What next?  

Well, if the UTs cooperate with some DR shows, and I can see no reason why not to, aren't we home free?  The public reaction could be closely calibrated, as with Fatima.  It would gradually build up.... to whatever, whenever.  The BPWH could be slotted in, almost anywhere in the process.  It could be pretty much full frontal.  A package deal.  It would seem too easy.... an anti-climax.  That's a lot better than a Tribulation.  But all the xtians would be saying it was the anti- X.  That would add to the drama.  



(cont.)

While awaiting permission to return to GFC, I visited an AoG church.  I was taken aback to find two heavily armed guards at the entrance.  It had been thus for the past three years.  Within that time frame, they had been visited by a group that appeared to be Muslim, who also appeared to be reconnoitering.  AoG does not downplay their spiritual support of Israel, and their sometimes clandestine support of Christian mission work in Islamic countries, and they occupy a mega church on the Beltway.  Go figure.  

In the coffee lounge I engaged one of the members.  He was carrying a bible.  I contrasted the Word of God with the words of the Bible.  He would have none of it.  We know Jesus through the words of the bible.  True enough, but, said I, we also know the Word through this cup of coffee.  He did not disagree.  I pointed out to him that I was an amateur philosopher, and we let it go, at that.  

I think I'll be able to use this approach on JP, next week.  I'm a hyper-evangelist.  I'm specifically going after the intelligentsia.  No one else in the community has that specific goal.  Who comes closest?   There are three organizations that stand out.... Reasons to Believe, Reasonable Faith, and the Jesuits.  

I'm prepared to run circles around them, particularly with the nearly heretical BPWH.  Plus, I may be about to lay claim to MJ12, and some sort of postmodern Fatima type of event.  I think that would seal the deal, in rather short order.   If the RD fizzles?  Hey, I'll take it in stride, and just keep on blogging.  I welcome setbacks.  With every setback, I can only expect to be more surprised.  

And what if the Tribulation does come, in full force?  I'll just have to scratch my head a bit.  

Admittedly, that does sound a bit like bravado.  I certainly would have to do a major recalibration.  And I'm certainly not prepared to go there, yet.  How quickly might I convert to materialism?  I wouldn't advise that you hold your breath.  As if any of us would have any breath left in us.  

And if we manage to muddle through?  That would be the biggest miracle of all.  


4:45ft--------

BTW, I'm led to believe that the 'Falcon' I met a few weeks ago is also one of the six of ours participating in the RD.  But three of the others are not aviary.  I'm pretty sure that RC is involved, however, so maybe it's more than six.  Should I check back with Ron?  Mañana.  


6:10ft---------

It's been awhile since we last discussed atoms.  My latest thought is to place atoms in the same category as, e.g., bacteria and seeds.  

I don't think that atoms and seeds are much different, ontologically speaking.   A Creation without seeds would be seriously deficient.  Given that seeds are possible, quite obviously, the BPW could not possibly exclude them.  Could it?  

The only trick is to have non-absolutist atoms.  Should that be difficult?  Atoms, like seeds, are potential beings..... potent, even.

The aborginal seed is the Logos spermatikos.  If you can explain that, you may be able to explain everything.  

Forgive me, but does Comsky's generative grammar have anything to do with the logos spermatikos.



(cont.)

You were interviewed some sixteen years ago in Paranoia Magazine and spoke to the involvement by our featherless friends with the Heaven's Gate disaster. You likened it to 39 apples falling from a tree shaken by birds - jumping up and down on those branches furiously I suppose. The madness of the Bennewitz caper writ large. Do you - and what members are left - still think it was worth it?

Dear Paranoid,

You might do us the favor of providing a quote or two, to back up your assertion.  

My feeling at the time was that our feathered friends were playing with fire, and here was the proof.  I play with it still.  I play with the MoAPS, and with the RD.  

I play with the Eschaton.  What do you play with, Mr Paranoid?  

The more serious eschatological gambit transpires in the Middle East.  I don't support Isis.  Ron does that.  But I do point to Isis as a sign of the times.  

Heaven's Gaters supped on apple sauce.  The Isis boys and girls don vests. Their faith being a tad less than with the xtians.  Well, the xtians do have the Bomb.  They walk softly, though.  


Last week the RD was a couple of weeks away.  Now it is several weeks.  The California team has a bit of preparation.  I'm still just supposing that we're talking about the visitors, but nothing has been said.  Gordon's son, Sur, is playing catchup with the ufologists.  He had assumed that his old man was just crazy.  It seems that we're cutting it a bit close, timewise.  

Do any of them know of the vectors?  Even the 'falcon' didn't, and he's not even out there, yet.  I'm supposed to talk to Paul Price, but all I have is four old numbers.  


W.r.t. Jeremy England, after a bit of reading and googling, I'm thinking that the hoopla, more than a year ago, was mostly just a rearguard action.... the materialists putting up a smoke screen to cover their strategic withdrawal.  All he had was a couple of statistical inequalities.  Plus he had a toy model for computation.  And, yes, if you squinted, you could detect a slight shift in the frequencies.  

This was 'proof' of the mechanical basis of life?  Hmmm......

I am a vitalist.  I'm a fan of Ilya Prigogine's.  I like the idea of far from equilibrium self-organization and dissipative structures.  This, though, was a bit over the top, I thought.  


About the alleged RD.......

I'm thinking that it would be the better part of valor to combine the two approaches...... the phenomenal and political.  Rather than go for a full frontal Fatima, combine a pinch of RD with a pinch WHPB.  Then the R&D show could garner a smidgen of heightened attention, just enough to put the xtians on the spot.  Then, yes, it would be all over but the shouting.  

How would that be, Mr Paranoid?  

We have RD + R&D = whatever.  Perhaps, for the sake of clarity, I should switch the mnemonic from RD to DR, desert rendezvous.  

If the DR were carefully orchestrated, we'd be home free.  All the old men, out in the desert, will be very well connected ufologically and paranormally.  We get Ron, Steve Bassett, and the Falcon in the mix, plus the vectors, we could have rumor city, even without CL.  

Me?  I'll just be able to bide my time.  We'll find out rather soon how the world will abide my eschatological mouse trap.  There I go, counting my chickens, again.  Ron did point out that this was going to be a short week.... extended vacation, but things might pick up, in the following week.  If you say so.  


1ft/noon(edit)-------

Bill L sends the following..... http://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/06/25/pentagon-papers-watergate-lawyer-shares-inside-information-about-ufos/  He points to the interview with Daniel Sheehan.  His indirect evidence points to a nuts&bolts explanation.  The interchange between Bush and Carter sounds genuine.  


2:30ft---------

Paul would barely communicate with me, when I finally got hold of him.  He advised that if I wished to communicate with John, it would be necessary for Ron to provide specific permission to John.  

Ron said he would.  Ron pointed out that the reluctance to speak with an outsider would likely stem from one of their fellows having recently been dismissed for a similar offense.  


5:45ft-----------

Thanks to Gary for bringing to my attention Cameron's latest book.... our feathered friends get several mentions.  I'm a bit disappointed as to how tenaciously, even a researcher of Grant's caliber is sticking to the ETH.  Therefore, his grand conclusion is suspect... that presidents get full disclosure.  Had it been my call, I would have recommended otherwise.  Constitutionally, the government is invited to butt out of UTH matters.  

It would only be as a matter of courtesy, and then only in the most general fashion possible.  If they ask the right questions, they might be directed to OMF.  


8ft--------

Both Grant and Steve agree that Larry's WH initiative is the royal road into the coverup.  But both are fixated by the ETH.  Larry?  Maybe not quite so much.   At some point, I suspect, that Larry was taken inside, and, from that point on, he cooperated with the ET cover for the UT's.  It worked.  That's how we managed to get all the way to 2016.... no mean feat.  

Date: Tuesday, July 5, 2016
Subject: review of new Cameron book re: Hillary and UFOs
To: dan

What do Bill and Hillary Clinton think about UFOs? Are they real? Are they friends or foes? What should they tell the public?

After reading this book it appears that they might be interested in UFOs. It would have helped if the author had interviewed them. Probably they'd have said no, but he doesn't even say if he tried to interview them on this matter. A Clinton advisor called John Podesta appears to have a definite interest in UFOs, but he wasn't interviewed either. All the book basically amounts to is the Clintons and Podesta dropping hints that UFOs exist.

There is also the matter of the sources of the Clintons' UFO material. Cameron states that any private briefings on the matter would probably include disinformation, "compared to the accurate information he could get from a CIA, NSA, or MJ-12 briefing on the subject." Well, who is to say that any President would get completely accurate info from those agencies on the subject?

There's some background on MJ12. Cameron says a story broke in 1987 about a leaked MJ12 document. Actually it was 1986 that the MJ12 material was first published in book form, in UFO Crash at Aztec.

From the book, it seems that Hillary, at least in the late 90s, had more of a UFO interest than Bill. A snippet of a speech is included in which she states that people might live under domes on Mars and that we might have to put aside our difference to fend off attacks from aliens in outer space. But was she just saying that to show she's in touch with popular culture, given that the first Independence Day movie had been released a couple of years earlier? A 2016 interview features her saying that there is a "new name" for UFOs: Unexplained Aerial Phenomena. This is not new. The term was used in the 1960s books of Coral and Jim Lorenzen of APRO, the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization.

As for Bill Clinton, it's not clear whether he has a UFO interest because of movies on the subject. In a 2015 interview he says, "Remember when there was a great Si-Fi movie where there was an alien kept deep underground in Area 51?" He then goes on to say that he sent "people" to investigate Area 51 records to make sure there was no alien down there. He doesn't say who these "people" were and the interviewer, Jimmy Kimmel, doesn't press him on the matter, so the interview tells us basically nothing meaningful.

Later in the book there is a table of Freedom of Information requests for the Clinton administration. This states there are 102 textual records and 1412 electronic records on the topic of "White House UFOs, flying saucers", 504 textual records on the topic of "Clinton Greer". It might have been an idea to interview Steven Greer for this book to get his opinion on what the Clintons' postion on UFOs is. Greer is later quoted from an interview with a White House reporter saying that "there is a government inside the government, and I don't control it." Going back to the table, it appears that the Clintons' main interest was the Kennedy Assassination, as this topic has "7600+" textual records.

Jimmy Carter is discussed briefly. Cameron states that there is a story that Senator Claiborne Pell arranged for Col. John Alexander and Scott Jones to meet Carter to discuss UFOs after he left office. However, it is not stated why Pell decided to do this, nor is it stated why Alexander and Jones were the men for this task. Anyway, Carter declined the meeting. Cameron adds: "This refusal constituted a major snub by Carter of a request from the ranking Democrat. It adds validity to the argument that 'the presidents cannot be players' as stated by [Ron] Pandolfi in 2000." So, if the Presidents cannot be players then they don't have accurate UFO information, so that counters what Cameron said earlier that a President could get accurate information from a CIA, NSA, or MJ-12 briefing on the subject. Also, why should Pandolfi be trusted?

In the conclusion the rise and fall of author and researcher Bill Moore is discussed. Cameron states that a book, The Roswell Incident, was written by Moore and Stanton Friedman. Actually, the cover of the book states that it was written by Moore and Charles Berlitz. Anyway, Cameron relates how Moore was contacted twice by "a senior government intelligence agent", known as "Falcon". Cameron doesn't state who Falcon was, but if the internet is to be believed, Falcon was Harry Rositzke. It would have been helpful if Cameron had mentioned this and attempted to verify this claim. A group called "The Aviary" is then mentioned. Cameron doesn't mention that other people earlier mentioned in the book, such as Scott Jones, John Alexander, Kit Green and Ron Pandolfi have been mentioned in print as being members of the Aviary. Cameron makes the case that the Aviary was responsible for feeding Moore disinformation so that he went from being a "highly respected researcher" to one who would be "blamed and discredited" when he quit the field in 1989. As it happens, one reported member of the Aviary, Robert Collins advised me that Grant Cameron is an "unreliable source". He stated to me: "Both Leonard Stringfield and Grant Cameron are unreliable sources. They don't vet their sources or check information. Half of Cameron's new book [UFOs, Area 51 and Government Informants] is dead wrong and contains hoax documents naming Pandolfi. My contact at the National Intelligence Directorate Ron Pandolfi (formerly with CIA) was laughing: he also thought the EfD was outstanding and accurate, but his bosses said no: no book review could be approved. Btw, Bill Moore was in charge of forming the Aviary which included members not listed in the book with Alexander as a minor player. How you sound doesn't mean you're telling the truth soft spoken or not."

So, has Cameron been hoaxed? He claims at the end of the book that 51% of all "experiencers" claimed aliens talked to them about oneness and love. He doesn't say where he got that information, nor where he learned that "oneness is the key alien message" according to "many experiencers". There is an appendix, "Indicators the President Knows". This contains the claim that President Kennedy knew because he, "Met aliens through George Adamski". That's a new one! Cameron doesn't say what he makes of some of Adamski's claims, e.g. that there are aliens who look like us who live in pleasant houses with lawns on Venus.

(cont.)

Dan, my account is too new to allow for links. This is the best I can do:

JD: With regard to Heaven’s Gate, you have also written: “There is a larger agenda and those 39 got caught at the short end of that agenda. The Aviary knows something of that agenda, and it shakes a lot of trees trying to find out more, and some of the apples will hit the ground pretty hard.” Can you elaborate on that agenda? Whose agenda is it that the Aviary is trying to shake down?
DS: The larger agenda is eschatology. We presume that this is God’s agenda, but it doesn’t hurt to kick the tires once in awhile, just to make sure.
JD: In this essay, you admit that “the remote viewing of the alleged Hale-Bopp companion was pretty much an Aviary spin-off.” Can you elaborate on this? What did the Aviary hope to achieve with this story?
DS: Remember that this was part of the run-up to Y2K. If this were deliberate, it was like the setting of the fires in the Bandolier Forest near Los Alamos. You take your chances. It might still be considered a success, compared to what else might have happened.
JD: Was it trying in some way to measure the public’s gullibility?
DS: Gullibility? Perhaps it was more like measuring how dry is the powder in the keg. Another way to kick those tires.

- The Aviary and The Eschaton: An Interview with Dan T. Smith, Paranoia Magazine, 2000.

You should be able to google it. The rest of your comment I'll respond to shortly. Thanks for your lengthy reply.

So you're on the internal list. I got a taster a few years back. But I think I pissed some folks off. Or perhaps I'm just not smart enough to join. There's certainly some truth to the later.

I have to say, i'm not quite sure where you'd think I stand on the materialist vs. metaphysical side of this debate you've been having with Jack. I very much agree with Jack and Roger Penrose that hard AI will never be achieved by classical computing. Von Neumann systems don't have the computational uumph. But does that make this perspective metaphysical? Certainly not religious in the traditional sense.

I see the Aviary through an outsider's eye. Really, I view them as an offshoot to the Advanced Theoretical Physics Working Group that preceded them. In that regard, to me their real purpose has been to achieve a breakthrough with exotic propulsion. Field propulsion. Paul Hill's Anti-Gravity revelation.

The rest I believe to be a smoke screen.

What do I mean by that? Well, let's talk Bennewitz. Because he is the precedent for all else that's happened in UFOlogy post 1980. Linda Howe, George Knapp, they are what Bill Moore would have become had he just kept his trap shut. Moore supposedly played Doty's game to learn insider secrets. Yet what secrets did he actually learn? What so-called secrets would he have learned? MJ-12? Strawberry ice cream? SERPO? The CARET drone revelations and bogus document reveal from Palo Alto? Or Nazi collaboration with Draco reptilians based in Antarctica?

I expect learning such has made Howe and Knapp even less knowledgeable than their audiences. Moore fled at the right time. Accepting the job of PR disinfo agent leaves your sense of reality too warped for reasoned judgment.

So, maybe I'm wrong, but I think all of that stuff is pure 'strawberry ice cream'. With a glowing red orb on top.

Much attention on revelations about the disinfo front has focused on Doty. But he was a enlisted man. Fit for no more policy-making and planning than, 'Yes Sir!' And did you read his section of Exempt from Disclosure? Dude is nearly incoherent. No, he didn't orchestrate any document falsification. He didn't write the SERPO copy. He simply made contacts and dropped off the goods. So who was the brains of the operation?

I'd guess Collins. Maybe Wood too. With a team. With some digging I found two papers Collins wrote in the 1980s. Soviet Research on the A Vector Potential and Scalar Waves and Soviet Research on Unified Field Theories, False Vacuum States, and Anti-Gravity. They seem suitable for publication by the Tesla Symposium. A favorite backwoods to dump things the working group wants published but not noticed.  

It shows Collins didn't just get in because he knew PR strategy.

Gary Bekkum. The last thing of note he published was the revelation that Tom Drake had formally worked with a British psychic on 9/11 predictions right before planes hit the two towers. And further rumors that Star Gate had never really been shut down, just migrated to NSA (where it belongs, being SIGINT). And the tantalizing suggestion a physics breakthrough had been made in the carrier mechanism. Then he shut up at Starpod. I wonder why. Did the moth flutter a bit too close to that flame?  

There are a lot of tantalizing suggestions of breakthrough. Sarfatti and Sutherland. Woodward making real progress with his piezoelectrics. Hal White and EmDrive. Tajmar, Podkletnov and Ning Li, whose work seems strikingly similar. And of course Hal's project. Eric Davis gave a fantastic presentation to the 2013 MUFON symposium. How often does MUFON get speakers who actually say something meaningful?

So they chased UFOs to get down the performance envelope and now they're getting somewhere.

But how does that relate to an oncoming Eschaton?

I'm not sure it does.

Is ET about to drop some whoop-ass on humanity for being upstarts in this side of the galaxy? Or will America finally piss off Russia enough to nuke earth to oblivion? That strikes me as more likely.

Some years ago I asked what various featherless folks thought about what kind of intelligence was the culprit for UFOs. Jungian psychic blowback from our collective unconscious? ETs from space? Or parallel universes? AI? Time travelers?

There was no consistent answer.

If they'd really believed MJ-12 and the aliens on ice was true, I'd have gotten more consistency in their replies I think.

So what's driving the possibility of armageddon other than our own shortsighted idiocy?

EDIT: and even if England is right, you could always fall back on some variant of the anthropic principle and call it a mere 'mechanism of action'.

Thank you, PF, for the lengthy explication of your interests and concerns.  

From reading your post, it seems clear to me that you are approaching the phenomenalogical issues from the scientific/physicalist side.  That was the side that I was on, originally.  But then I began to question authority, both scientific and religious.  

The scientific revolution began with the Cartesian compromise, wherein reality was neatly split between mind and matter.  


4:30----------

Science and technology were given free rein of the material realm.  Material progress picked up steam, if you'll forgive the play on words.  

And that brings us to today's juncture.....

At the very least, science and technology, on many accounts, are running out of steam.  Many see that, lacking a dramatic new development, we are running up against the limits to material growth.  

As these limitations draw nearer, many eyes have turned to the sky, possibly out of desperation.  Many hopes are pinned upon the rumors of visitation by extraterrestrial beings, and a cornucopia of super-advanced technology.  

I'm one those, however, who is skeptical of this technological interpretation of the UFO phenomenon.  More to the point, I'm skeptical of the materialist (non-) explanation for our existence.  

On the reductive view of science, there is no rhyme or reason for the existence of either us or the world.  But, now that I think about it, neither does any spiritual tradition offer us a reason.  

Only on the prophetic tradition, might a reason exist, but, even then, it can exist only in the mind of God, to which we have little or no access.  

Basically, ours is not to reason why.......

Even the so-called Gnostics, failed to venture a guess.  

Is there any wonder that I labor here, alone?  


8:00ft----------

When this is all over, we'll look back and wonder what we were thinking.  What were we smoking, to suppose that this was all a colossal accident?  I don't get it.  It was a twisted intellectual path that brought us into this blind alley.  

OTOH, the overall fact of our existential alienation, on the larger view, is an essential aspect of our Metanarrative.... of progression toward our co-Creatorship.  But maybe I'm being too cautious, maybe I should be talking about our Co-creatorship.  This is just the logical outcome of monism and personalism.  

For me, PF, the phenomena are just the frosting on the cake of immaterialism.  Ufology has never been the focus of my attention.  I have, however, seen it as playing a crucial political role in the lead-up to the MoAPS.  

As long as I have coherence on my side, I'm not feeling vulnerable. I hardly need to sweat the details. The details will take care of themselves, they will fall into line, eventually.


(cont.)

Dan,

I think the position you take is rather nihilistic. And not much different from that of the positivists you seem to oppose. Let me explain.

Consider michelson-morley. They thought to detect the luminiferous aether. And yet their null result led to a general conclusion it didn't exist. Then, later at Copenhagen, the luminaries of QM drew the conclusion that whatever those statistical predictions might mean one thing it didn't mean was anything having to do with physical reality. That is, because our measuring apparatus relied on EM and because the act of detecting states of EM destroyed the thing they tried to detect, therefore they drew the radical conclusion that such things do not exist. That is, what we can't detect doesn't exist at all. Hence, we get nonsense thought experiments like Schrodinger's Cat.

I'm oversimplifying here. But the point is that Copenhagen is a nihilist perspective. And it's no surprise a bunch of Germans thought it up. Nor much a surprise a German Jew who'd fled Nazi Germany thought it a pile of hooey.

A curious twist to the story is EPR. That is, they proposed a nonsense experiment that - unlike michelson-morley - turned out to be true. But once again the physics community drew nonsense conclusions based on the presumption that underlying mechanisms to superposition are a meaningless question. Because what's happening at the subatomic level can't be measured and therefore doesn't exist.

Einstein and his followers tried in vain to resolve this seeming contradiction with a unified field theory. Or de-Broglie-Bohm pilot wave. Everett's many worlds. Transactional Interpretation. All of which dealt with things that don't exist and therefore have been derisively called 'philosophy'.

In yet another ironic twist to this, LIGO recently detected gravity waves using an apparatus remarkably similar - if more accurate - to michelson-morley. And as the physics community cheers their grand success few have bothered to look back and ask: does that mean there is some kind of aether after all? No. That question will get you laughed at.

My point here is that physicists have spent the last hundred plus years searching for ways to prove that which they can't detect doesn't exist. While, by turning your back to their ways, you've taken the same nihilist approach by declaring so too anything that can be detected - ordinary matter - must also not exist!

It seems you're both trapped inside a total perspective vortex. I think you need a piece of fairy cake.

PF,

You are painting yourself as a philosophically naive materialist.  In point of fact, I am not aware of any non-naive materialists who do not admit to their consequent nihilism.  

It is generally understood that nihilism = materialism, i.e., all that exists is atoms in the void.  I doubt that you have ever encountered an idealist or immaterialist.  

The human race is fatally naïve, philosophically.  A significant aspect of the MoAPS is to alleviate that fatal naïveté.  

If you wish to remain a part of the zombified herd, up until the last minute, you are welcome to continue on your merry way.  Otherwise, stick around, and you might learn something.  

I was a naive materialist until 1975, when I had my first encounter with the anthropic principle, gratis an appendix in Jack Sarfatti's book, S,T&B.  Based on that bit of insight, I reapplied to graduate school, naively supposing that other academicians might share my concern for the truth.  The great preponderance of concern in academia, as everywhere else, is with survival.  The truth is considered to be an unobtainable luxury..... the province of angels, or fairies, as you might characterize it.  

I had my bit of financial independence, but no fairy dust.  I continued the pursuit long enough to determine that there was a perfectly good reason for our naive materialism, almost any other view led to seeming absurdities.  Immaterialism led to eschatology.  Eschatology would never sell amongst the intellectual set.  

My fairy dust did not arrive until 1991.  I experienced a quasi-psychotic break that lasted five days.  The result was a compelling sense of urgency, like I needed to dail 911.  Instead, I called the local Mufon chapter.  In about three months, I had sussed out Ron's existence, along with his phone #.  Thus began the R&D show.  

And the rest is...... well, it's beginning to emerge elsewhere than on this rather obscure blog.  The latest on the politics of ufos was published just last month by Grant Cameron.  Ron's name appears on about fifty occasions.  CL?  I'm in there as his publicist.  

In case you hadn't noticed it, we're into another of those many ufo cycles..... every five or ten years.  

This time...... well, some of us are noticing the differences.  Associated with Grant's latest, is Steve Bassett's PRG initiative.  More to the point, the ufo question was raised three times within one week, in the WHPB, recently.  I'm not aware that the question had previously been broached in that arena.  IOW, the ufo phenomenon is no longer just lights in the sky.  The ufo agenda, such as it may be, is emerging, in a rather focused manner, with some sort of political agenda.  What's going on?  

It's the Vectors, stupid......?  Well, maybe.  Eschatology does seem to have come of age, at least since 2008.  Economic/political meltdown continues apace.  

The underlying cause..... limitations in resources and technology are becoming increasingly evident.  Yes, maybe we'll be able to muddle through the approaching bottleneck.  Maybe there will be a technological breakthrough..... particularly in the energy domain.  

In our hour of need, eyes turn to the sky..... for technology.... for salvation..... for a sign.....

To the desert......?   Well, I have some reasons to be skeptical of the DR, as presented to me.  I spoke with one of the alleged principals.  There was disarray.  

I'm hopeful that some other DR initiative is in the works.  It's not a bad idea, if I say so, myself.  

How might this differ from Steve Greer conducting groups of believers into the night, and shining a flashlight into the sky?   There were occasions when even Steve succeeded.  

What I'm hopeful for is some historically oriented orchestration.  By that, I'm referring to some initiative that is drawing its impetus from an MJ12 style of contact.... where both sides have an agreed upon context/agenda.  

I'm assuming some validity to an MJ12 type process.  That has been my assumption, from day one of the R&D show.  Otherwise..... the entire BPWH could be called into question.  

Yes, we're back to trumpets in the sky.  We're back to shock&awe.  If that's the best possible strategy, I'll just have to eat my hat.  


12:30--------

What I'm looking for is a mini-Fatima, with MJ12 barely visible in the background.  That's what the doctor ordered.  

No, I'm not overly bashful, when it comes to the MoAPS.  With this Fatima/MJ12 scenario, we avoid the Tribulation, and we minimize the necessity of any WH participation.  Still, we need to acknowledge Hillary's own initiative.  She has put herself on this line.  

The rollout of the mini-fatima and the MoAPS could be closely calibrated, on both sides of the divide, for each part. An excellent setup to work on the collaboration, going forward.  


4ft------------

There is also naive realism.......... that tree over there, that's real.  A naive materialist would tend to agree, but, if you questioned them closely, differences would emerge.....

The naive realist would perceive an oak tree, for instance.  The materialist would perceive a tree-like collection of atoms.  How is that different?  We'll, the realist would see a particular tree that was exhibiting the qualities of universal tree-hood.  The materialist would only acknowledge the nominal existence of anything universal.  But is there a practical difference?  Yes, because that naive realist could easily embrace creationism.  The materialist.....? Never.  

What would the immaterialist perceive.....?  She would be aware of the potencies surrounding tree-hood.  She would view the tree as existing in relation to an ecosystem, and be aware of it as a living individual.  She would think of its treeness as primarily a construct of sapience.  The birds in the tree have little more concept or perception of treeness than the trees have a concept of birds.  

I understand that, to most of us, this sounds like so much semantics.  To others of us, however, semantics are an extension of the Logos, whatever that might imply.  

My contention is that if we take words, sapience and persons seriously, we encounter a rather slippery slope, leading us directly to the Eschaton.  Ultimately, this is the reason that even, or especially, the intelligentsia stopped having deep thoughts, since...... Darwin.  

Yes, if humanity gets even a whiff of the Eschaton, it is liable to be a sobering, focusing experience.  

Didn't we all become eschatologists, with the advent of the nuclear age.....?  

Evidently, not.  It was more like eat, drink, and get on with our lives.  

How would this Eschaton be any different?  


9:20ft------------

Between the physical and the metaphysical eschatons, there would be virtually no comparison.  Using the term 'metaphysical' here, in no way implies that the overall consequences would not be physical, rather that they would be transphysical, and that might be a better term.  

In regards to this Transphysical Eschaton of the BPWH, the primary factoid is that the world does not end. There is even the provision for the continuation of off-grid, human societies, albeit of a primitive sort, that might not even notice this TE event. I have explained this fact in considerable detail, in many previous posts.


(cont.)

What I wish is to delay that 'last minute' as long as possible. Foolish though it may be, I rather like humanity. And life. I think there need not be purpose to existence. It is its own value.

Though I don't dispute people have rather screwed things up. But no worse than bacteria eating up all the agar in a petri dish. We just need to find a bigger dish.

In that regard I wholeheartedly support the energy and exotic propulsion goals of the working group. Getting us off this rock and safely spread out is a first order task necessary for long term species survival.

My wife and I just recently had a kid. That might also have something to do with it.

I haven't spoken to my beliefs. I believe the work at SRI and PEAR is valid. Their conclusions real.

I believe UFOs are real. I've seen one. A broad daylight sighting some decades ago. And it worries the hell out of me. All one must do is look over any ecosystem to see just how violent and hungry are those predators who roam in search for advantage. It's understandable why they do this. They too value their own existence. But one might reasonably conclude from UFO reports that no longer is it possible to hide in that sea of emptiness between stars. Or parallel universes, if that's what we face.

So I do not wish to rush headlong into some eschaton that might be avoided. Death holds no sweetness for me. And extinction, well that's a downright sour offering.

I'm aware of Cameron and Basset. I think little of their Rockefeller initiative and even less of the Clintons. And the disclosure project, my God did you see the faux citizens hearings they ran? I'd guess our featherless friends found that circus particularly entertaining. But Greer gave me the creeps. That guy did some good work in the 90s. Since then his whole desert contact guru project has a distinctive Applewhite taste to it. Contactees get their brains scrambled - alien telepathy is a bitch.

So I hold out little hope on the disclosure front.

You know I think just about everything promulgated by UFOlogy post 1980 has been a pack of lies. Except for Clear Intent, Fawcett and Greenwood. And Hasting's UFOs and Nukes. And John Greenwald's Blackvault project. Otherwise, a fountain of BS.

Except for Sheehan. You mentioned him earlier. I think his story is credible. His credentials impeccable. And values laudable. I believe Sheehan.

Have you run across Edward Riorden? He has a fantastic youtube channel. Does RV sessions on video. Isn't pimping it for the money. And shows how it's really done. Yet another artist. Boy do they like artists. Look him up.

Anyway, a few weeks ago he posted a shot of him and Hal Puthoff meeting for lunch. And I have to say Puthoff is looking a little too thin. After Edward Mitchell, it's dawning on me just how old the featherless crowd really is. As I said, I have the utmost respect for the real work accomplished (as opposed to the disseminating BS part). But I wonder who will take on the reins as this old guard goes out to pasture. Eric Davis is one very good choice. I like him.

You wanted a philosophical debate. Perhaps I'm not qualified. But I did want to express my opposition to rushing headlong into some rapture. Chicken Little didn't jump for joy as the sky fell.

Bohm's Implicate Order is here to stay. 

https://www.brainpickings.org/2015/09/29/david-bohm-jiddu-krishnamurti-ending-of-time-love-intelligence/

The Sun shines brightly across the ages.

Can you dig it blockheads?

https://i.servimg.com/u/f35/19/46/49/08/image10.jpg