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» What Music Are You Listening To ?
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» Livin Your Best Life
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» Baudrillardian hauntology - what are some haunting truths to our reality?
Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2 - Page 25 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 03, 2024 3:07 pm by dan

Where did all the Open Minds Forum members go?

Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:29 pm by Admin

With Open Minds Forum restored now for almost half a year at it's new location with forumotion.com we can now turn to look at reaching out to OMF's original members who have not yet returned home. OMF's original membership was over 6,000 members strong, prior to the proboards suspension, according to the rolls of the time. We can probably safely assume that some of those accounts were unidentified socks. If we were to assume a reasonable guess of maybe as many as 30% possible sock accounts then that would leave potentially somewhere between 4800 to 4900 possible real members to locate. That is still a substantial number of people.

Who were all these people? Some were average individuals with common interests in ufology, exopolitics, globalism, corruption, earthchanges, science and technology, and a variety of other interests. Some just enjoyed being part of a vibrant and unusually interesting community. Others were representative of various insider groups participating in observation and outreach projects, while still others were bonafide intelligence community personnel. All with stake in the hunt for truth in one fashion or another. Some in support of truth, and communication. Others seeking real disclosure and forms of proof. And others highly skeptical of anything or limited subjects. The smallest division of membership being wholly anti-disclosure oriented.

So where did these members vanish to? They had many options. There are almost innumerable other forums out there on the topics of UFO's or Exopolitics, the Unexplained, and Conspiracy Theory. Did they disappear into the world-wide network of forum inhabitants? Did some go find new homes on chatrooms or individual blogs? Did they participate in ufo conventions or other public events and gatherings? How about those who represented groups in special access? Or IC and military observers? Those with academic affiliations? Where did they all go and what would be the best way to reach out and extend an invitation to return?

And what constitutes a situation deserving of their time and participation? Is the archive enough? How exactly do people within the paradigm most desire to define a community? Is it amenities, humanity or simply population size for exposure? Most of the special guests have been emailed and have expressed that population size for exposure is what most motivates them. But not all. Long-time member Dan Smith has other priorities and values motivating his participation. Should this open opportunities for unattached junior guests who have experience and dialog to contribute to the world? How best to make use of OMF's time, experience and resources?

Many skeptics would like to see the historical guardian of discourse opportunity to just up and disappear; go into permanent stasis. They think that not everyone has a right to speak about their experiences and if there is no proof involved then there can philosophically be no value to discourse. I personally would respectfully disagree with them. Discourse has always been the prelude to meaningful relationships and meaningful mutual relationships have always been the prelude to exchanges of proof. In a contentious social environment with regards to communication vs disclosure how do we best re-establish a haven for those preludes? Is it only the "if we build it they will come" answer? Well considering OMF has been largely fully functional over the last four or five months this line of reasoning is not necessarily true. So what would be the best way re-establish this? Your suggestions are sought. Please comment.





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    Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

    Cyrellys
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    Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2 - Page 25 Empty Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

    Post by Cyrellys Mon May 04, 2015 12:29 am

    First topic message reminder :

    dan wrote:Cy,

    I'm not in favor of guns, but I understand that some folks need that extra sense of security.  

    Yesterday we were at the national Cathedral doing the flower market for Kashmir-Rose.  Today we are headed to a WCUAVC flight day at a school down here.  


    Was looking at the connection between India and Greece back in the day.  In fact there was a Greco-Indian empire, created by Alexander the Great.  The mutual influence



    (cont.)



    Well guns have their place, but that wasn't the point...the point was that Hillary equates gun possession with violent individuals or groups and I think I quite clearly illustrated the problem with that kind of thinking by saying I've never been responsible for hurting someone.

    I'm not a violent person and my record attests to that. Hillary however is responsible for the deaths of two exemplary military members and one Ambassador, all by design. She also responsible for the arrests and loss of career of one General and one Admiral who attempted to send in a rescue party. They would have been successful in the rescue and then the creation of ISIS and the gun running that contributed to it would have been exposed. Nothing like wiping the proof of criminal wrong doing off the map to protect your own arse Hildebeast? Like any of us would forget and forgive her? Hillary apparently doesn't own guns and yet she's been responsible for the ending of at least three lives and two careers. She's five ahead of this gun owner. And that's just what we happen to know about. There's rumors her and her prior hubby were involved in the drug trade of Arkansas and S. America...then there's China and Walmart. I could go on but what's the point. Truth is too old fashioned and justice is also out-dated.

    I'm a celt so truth and justice is not a cultural trait in the eyes of the modern umbrella society which refuses to acknowledge those traits as part of the nation's psyche, but rather as a personal neurosis that they'd probably insist a straightjacket and heavy medication be applied to if I were within reach in DC. Truth and justice equals neurosis? What kind of thinking is that?!! But that's the spew emerging from orgs like DHS since its inception. So when it comes to commentary, turn-about-is-fair-play. They and their flunkies make snide comments about us and we return the favor.

    >>>on India and Greece...look at the Sanskrit language and old greek. Then compare it to Old Irish. Fascinating? Now look at some of the ideas each culture valued...same again. All three have same root system. Ah but why would anyone care about the legacy of the elder gods? 'er ET and the seeding of civilizations? Virmana are inconveniences...ah! and there once was one in the vicinity of Fermoy Eire of all places! That is if you can take the Christian overlay off the history.

    >>> on the subject of the Glyphs:

    432 Mystery

    432 Mystery: the first lesson - the Abducted Preceptor







    _________________

    "This is an indeterminite problem. How shall I solve it? Pessimistically? Or optimistically? Or a range of probabilities expressed as a curve, or several curves?..........Well.....we're Loonies. Loonies bet. Hell, we have to! They shipped us up and bet us we couldn't stay alive. We fooled 'em. We'll fool 'em again!" Robert Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.



    Rue she said Protection
    Rooster's Crow Confusion
    One thing else to end the deed --
    A dog with no Illusion.

    ~ Walter Wangerin Jr., Book of the Dun Cow
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    Post by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:50 am

    It is not in the interest of power to give away power. They will control the narrative as the boat goes over the falls. It is not in their interest for anyone to wake up, but then again, it's in all our interest we wake up. It is just sad to me that what the elite sacrifice the world for is nothing but an illusion. Who needs to wake up?

    They do.

    “All I can say right now is the US Government is not going to be able to cover this up by jailing or murdering me. Truth is coming, and it cannot be stopped.” - Edward Snowden
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    Post by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 12:03 pm

    http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-quantum-computer-video-game-water-20160413-story.html

    "Humans, on the other hand, have a real knack for forgetting, or filtering, information – tossing out irrelevant bits and focusing on the parts that might really matter."

    I and others like me are a reaction, an adaptation. Spontaneous ignition and awareness led by intuition, our greatest survival trait? Use us or not to divine what really matters.

    What really matters, yes, that is the question.
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    Post by Guest Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:55 pm

    Love, love is all that matters. I am drawn to the Sufi path of love, not blissed out discorporation. That is a dead end. Bliss and deep sleep sticks in my throat for some reason.

    "Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
    The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
    Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
    The heart that is not in love will fail the test." - Rumi

    You accuse me of seeking my bliss, I have never said or represented that. I have tried to demonstrate intuition sets the priorities in the moment and Love is behind the Light.

    But everyone says to let go of thinking and wisdom. I can't disagree with that approach, it allows higher objective reason to come forward in our death. You can't just think your way through this.

    Yes, I turn my back on the prophetic tradition. I embrace the esoteric one if any. It's a lot closer than the public religions.

    I believe as the BPWH that we are asleep in materialism, thus the overreaction and push away from reason in embracing a cure.

    You are like, whoa there!

    I agree we should strive for the best expression of consciousness we can here and now.
    CC is the end of our existence, in sleep ultimately and then to dream again?

    I cut my teeth on a big prophetic tradition and I am not wanting to take up another rein. I am sick of blind ignorant unchanging tradition. Hell, I was a born a preacher who ran from his supposed calling. That is why my family is really pissed. I was going to be an Evangelical voice. I had so much potential. Well, I'm sick of everyone's expectations. I worked it out for myself.

    So, the world is going to end in the best possible way. Is that important for people to believe when it happens to set course for the next phase? I think I am ready for it. No? I think I can be a voice in the dark if it comes to that. The Christians want to see you all get yours and watch the world burn. Disgusting! I reject them completely, because they do not understand what Jesus did and was. They will have their deserved reward. Not my problem.
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    Post by dan Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:20 am

    Eric,

    Rest assured that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing.  What you're having trouble grokking is that so is everyone else.  

    Eric...... it's the PSR, the principal of sufficient reason.  There is a reason for everything.  There is a reason for evil.  

    There is a caveat that goes with the PSR.... Personalism....

    I just finished with the first favorable review of the PSR in the last two centuries.  This was the book by Pruss (2006).  However, he conflates the PSR with causal determinism.  To my BPWH mind, it is better to conflate the PSR with occasionalism.  In the BPWH, causality, such as it is, is secondary to the phenomenological cycles that are habituated through us.  

    IOW, atoms are not the foci of causality that we usually take them to be.  Reality is not composed of atoms swerving in the void.  Atoms, and everything else, do not have the individuality that we normally ascribe to them.  

    Only persons are individuals.  This is the true meaning of personalism, though it is seldom stated as such.  

    Sentience does not objectify.  It does not individuate.  Does a dog not individuate its owner?  No.  It does not objectify its owner.  Yes, it is behavioral.  Thinking is not allowed.

    Isn't a dog feeling happy when it wags its tail?  


    12:20---------

    My point is that doggie happiness need not be same as Rover happiness or your happiness.  If the behaviorists are correct, they are the same, in that they are both nonexistent.  The only thing that counts are the outward manifestations.  There is nothing inside... nothing there, there.  

    Am I saying that there is nothing like it is to be Rover?  

    No.  I'm saying that there is nobody there.  Yes, there is happiness there, but there's nobody there to identity with it.  It's doggie happiness, pure and simple.  There is nobody there to possess it... to make something of it.  It is an ontological distinction.  

    Pantheists, non-dualists would say that there is no distinction.  There could be attenuation, but no distinction.  

    See, I'm saying that Rover is a figment of my imagination.  Yes, and I'm a figment of God's imagination.  However, Rover, qua Rover, is not a figment of God's imagination.  Yes, doghood is conjured through our collective/cosmic consciousness.  But Roverhood is the result of our personal/individual/sapient symmerty breaking.  

    In short, Rover's not going to heaven.  Well, I can drag him there, barking and biting, but his apparition will only be mine.  IOW, Rover can bite me, but not you.  His apparition will fade much more quickly than my own.  

    Non-dualists don't get any of this. Dualism, such as it may be, was just a big mistake. It is all just karma.... not even personal karma.

    Was cosmic love a mistake? Perhaps not, according to Rumi. But, guess what, Rumi stole that idea, that love, right from the j-man... right from the logos. All that went right over Buddha's head. Am I wrong. I've been wrong before.



    (cont.)
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    Post by Guest Fri Apr 15, 2016 11:44 am

    No, it is odd nonduality seems to care for earth more than their fellow man. You know, I was looking forward to my dogs for eternity. I know why no one has listened, your a big downer and as interesting as watching paint dry sometimes. I mean that in love.

    So Taoism and Zen don't speak much of love, for them they transcend the emotion. The Taoist Chuang Tzu writes chillingly: “Because right and wrong appeared, the Way was injured, and because the Way was injured, love became complete."

    Love is the give and take with no thinking and feeling. Love and breathing is love. Every act is one of love. We live in this disturbance of the way. Flowing in this natural love joy comes naturally in the expression of your being. Taoism and Buddishm is about alleviating suffering. To have love is an attachment that makes you yearn for more love. They say no no. No love needed. No good and evil. No love and hate. Now, that is not my experience. I understand what they are saying.

    Love is the practice of listening to each moment to discover how we can harmonize with all we face. So being is the act of love, you love best when you flow because the The Way is always flowing.

    This way of thinking does calm the mind.
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    Post by dan Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:57 pm

    Eric,

    We have a common theme of the need for us to awaken from our slumber of materialism.  

    You seem dissatisfied with the core message of the non-dualists.  Their message is the same as the materialists.... life is an absurdity.  The only solution for the pantheist is to escape from the wheel of life or samsara.

    The materialist proclaims that as long as life is improving materially, we should enjoy the progress.  

    The non-dualists in the West attempt to put a more positive spin on this message, and they do speak of the power of love, as counterbalancing material competition.  

    Perhaps, Eric, the more balanced and loving life style will be sufficient to carry us over the rough patch ahead.  

    The non-dualist path, however, has, even in its modern version, been aimed at the spiritually adept.  However, Mahayana Buddhism accounts for over half of all practicing Buddhists.  

    Mahayana has been around for millennia.  The waking up part of it does not seem to have been aimed at any particular historical target.... never any urgency.  

    As I read the wiki entry on the New Age, I see a considerable overlap with your beliefs, as far as I can understand them.  Yet you have been vehement in your disavowal.  

    You have left me rather confused on this significant point.  

    The only name I recognize is that of Ken Wilber.  My guru, Bob Clark, was rather taken with Ken.  

    Also, Frijof Capra, especially with his Turning Point (1982), would be a link between us and also with Jack.  You will note that there is considerable overlap between Capra, Wilber and myself.  

    Those two, C&W, captured the substance of the New Age movement.  They have had considerable impact on my generation.  Now we need to go beyond them.  You claim to have a way.  I have not been able to discern it.  

    Along with C&W, I subscribe to transpersonal psychology, at least in its broad outline.  

    They would also be monists and immaterialists.  Where we differ is precisely on the issue of the small world.  

    I imagine that we also differ on the PSR and all that is entailed thereby.  They attempt to provide a non-prophetic alternative to the prophetic tradition.  

    It was a good try.  It never went for the jugular.  It lacks that coherent core.  

    I don't see any other way to go, quite frankly, Eric.  

    It might be fruitful for us to discuss C&W, however.  We might even end up on the same page.  You might better understand why I think we need stronger medicine.  

    Both C&W think we need a paradigm shift.  You could say the same about the Xtians.  Theirs, however, would be forced down our throats, to put it mildly.  

    Again, I am a personalist, which has very little in common with humanism, for instance.  More precisely, I might say that I'm an interpersonalist.  

    Pope John Paul II was a personalist.  I'm rather sure that he and the others would disavow the BPWH version.  Personalism veers much too close to existentialism.  

    Yes, Eric, it will take some strong medicine to turn the cancer into a chrysalis, but not quite as drastic as what the Xtians propose.  I'm guessing that God did not deal himself a losing hand when it came to saving our soul(s).  

    Would God have wasted this much time and effort on us, without a winning strategy.  It's as if our salvation was just some sort of divine experiment.  Hey, it's just a crapshoot, when it comes to winning the soul(s).  So what the heck if you lose 95% of them?  Better luck next time?  

    Who says there's gonna be a next time?  Certainly not me.  

    The BPWH should be totally obvious.  That it's not is the biggest mystery of all.  

    .......
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    Post by Guest Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:00 pm

    There is no time for him to waste. This does not have to mean anything for me anymore. I'm finding my way just fine led through creative intuition. Not much else I can say. Every day is new. People have to do the inner work. I will continue to let things unfold. My mind is closed to nothing.
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    Post by dan Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:51 am

    Eric,

    Yes, people have to do the work that's put in front of them.  

    You are welcome here, anytime.  Godspeed.  

    I'll miss the dialogue.  

    Eric also sent me some lengthy texts, yesterday.  I would be glad to answer any further questions online.  

    I was also glad for the opportunity to review the work of Capra and Wilber.  They were definitive of the substance of the New Age movement, NAM, along with Marilyn Ferguson and her New Age Conspiracy, of course.  

    I was hoping to discuss these authors with Eric.....

    There was a time when revolution and hope were in the air.  But then there was a backlash from the religious right, and the movement seemed to run out of ideas.  Well, if anything, it transmogrified into the green movement and the spirit of deep ecology.  

    It is the religious right and the hard-core capitalists who make up the core of the climate deniers.  One may see this at.....

    http://www.resistingthegreendragon.com

    There were numerous instances where Ferguson&co were likened to the antichrist.  

    OTOH, take a look at Heartcom.......

    http://www.heartcom.org/AscentWave.htm

    This site belongs to Chistopher Rudy who is also on Jack Sarfatti's email list.  Hope does spring eternal.  

    In the NAM, we did see spirituality flirting with aspects of the prophetic tradition.  Needless to say, there was pushback.  Rudy is keeping that spirit alive, though.  

    What can the BPWH offer, in this regard......?

    What I can offer is coherence, but this coherence comes at steep price......

    The price is that the coherence must confront the incoherence of scientific materialism and the scientific, big-bang cosmology.  The modern mind is unwilling to go there.  Even the postmodern mind is unwilling.  

    Nevertheless, the sky will fall.  This can be everyone's excuse to deny coherence.  Even as the evangelicals would say..... God does not deceive.  

    And, yet, the evangelicals are wont to speak of the Grand Deception and the Great Apostasy.  Hmmm.......

    Only the Devil deceives.  Only the Antichrist will deceive.... in the End.  

    Yes, this is dualism with a vengeance.  

    And is the God of revelation not also, necessarily, the God of concealment?  

    The religious mind does not go out of its way to connect any dots.  Incoherence has been the name of the game for the fundamental literalists.  Scientists, OTOH, practice their own version of literalism... it's called reductionism.  


    noon--------

    Don't look to the big-bang for coherence.  If you want coherence, you're going to have to take the drastic step of turning the world upside-down and inside-out.  

    Is this not the MoALF.... the mother of all leaps of faith?  

    Short answer..... Yes. Is there any wonder that it gets a bit lonely at the BPWH?

    Eric&co have taken the first step.... they have turned inward. The truth is in there, but it is well concealed behind a mountain of scientific facts and theories.

    Who wants to have to dig through all those facts in order to find enlightenment? All you have to do is clear your mind of all those facts.

    (cont.)


    Last edited by dan on Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Guest Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:25 am

    That 5D stuff is so cheesy. That is the New Age with it's angels and channelings I avoid. It's more overemotionalism. I agree with the shift to nonlinear thinking. Will not scientific materialism be directly challenged by a 5D Ascension? What's the big deal? Who or what is there to confront? They will see. He seems to have it all figured out, well they didn't give me a map or timeline. But I can say, there is a lot more energy flowing. Shrug. I have coherence. And it can survive a 5D encounter and then some.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherence_(film)

    Maybe all the versions of u collapse and the wave function we have been riding on collapses into the final real version.

    I understand your point with the BPWH and I see why I came in contact with you. Because through my own way, I expanded my Christisn view, but I was never a literalist. So, I am not a good Everyman. I am like one sent into their midst to help them see I think.

    From your old blog: “All I am attempting to do is to translate the Christian message into a broader idiom, pouring old wine into a new bottle. In that process, we incorporate the salient points of other belief systems. And we use that composite to revamp and reinterpret Scientific Materialism into an immaterialist frame, so that it, too, may be incorporated into the BPWH.” I see you are attempting to bridge the east and west. Sounds good. I don’t think no one is listening though. Some are. You are saying similar things in a more rational way a few of us intuitively feel.

    I think what you propose is the only way forward. Does it need disclosure? I don’t know or have an opinion about such things. I am not a UFOlogist.

    I was a disillusioned Christian who was open if there was more to know. Because I came to the end of myself and faith in myself. Very personal. I don’t know why talking about such things with one like myself would matter or trigger something. You have had many people talk through your ideas with you. Much better qualified and lettered than I.

    I was burned out on literal prophetic interpretation of the bible. When I found and saw Revelations as the union of 4 elements crowned by spirit. What I always felt intuitively found voice rationally. Anyway. That’s all I got. I align wire with Sufis and Theosophists, not Ken Wilbur and his integrated system. Though much I feel is true may be explained in his system. His stuff makes my head hurt and represents more spiritual materialism to me. The truth is free.

    Also, I had throught of a story where we were the fallen angles and devolved from what we were. The Atlanteans were fully activated us. Then I find that part of the BPW and the mystical tradition. That’s interesting. Many synchronicities like that for me in your work. It's like, ok, all my searching led me to Dan.

    I feel if someone opens to the idea that bits of a possible Truth are likely found all around and not everything you sense could be real meaning you have no objective way to know what kind of situation we find ourselves in, they find a chance. The red and blue pill from the Matrix presents itself.

    Most are just scraping by to eat and live while others are burning them with a magnifying glass like ants. More are opening to the reality an unsustainable profit driven existence is a dead end. To be open minded is the key adaptability trait I could see a quest like this could be meant to encourage and identify. Closed minded thinking is a dead end. If a person from some tradition starts to connect the dots, they can start to learn to take what they need and leave the fluff. I think if a person gets shaken up like I have been with a certain intent, they end up with a view kind of like the BPWH. You're surprised more don't end up here. I think people are tending away from adopting another belief system, especially a rational one. They don't want to think anymore. The Truth is simply becoming something one finds intuitively in a song. We hear it. How do you reach someone asleep and lost in the social fog of living in a material society?

    If everyone has salvation what does this philosophizing matter? Do they have to become aware of their true state to wake up or after? If acceptance of this is required to enter into eternal life, things are more pressing for us. If we are just cells in God's brain, could not all this just be the immune response? We are part of that. In that case, we are eternal and there is nothing to save, but perhaps we have actions to perform.

    If we are just Boltzmann Brains in darkness, then why wake up and spoil everyone's fun?

    I can't get this evangelical streak out of me, why probably I embraced going with the flow so fiercely. I was always trying to find meaning. Well, OK, it doesn't have to make sense to me anymore. Sometimes we just have to shut up and get on with our part.

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    Post by dan Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:18 am

    Eric,

    There is much experience to be gained by going with the flow.  If God is anything, she is the Great Attractor in the sky.  We'll all end up there, at approximately the same time, even.  

    There is nothing to be gained by going against your own inclinations.  You may only be delaying the process.  

    Me....?  I'm just doing what seems to have been put in front of me.  It keeps me busy.  

    Does philosophy matter......?

    If you seek truth, it may, in some instances. Philosophy helps to conceptualize and communicate some truths, especially the ones that are intersubjective.

    But no one listens, certainly not in my case..... Well, I guess I just have a hankering for truth. If I ask myself a reasonable question, I can usually come up with a reasonable answer. It does require some focus.


    (cont.)


    Last edited by dan on Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by Guest Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:29 am

    The first thing I said to you starting this dialogue again was that I was just doing what seems to be in me and in front of me, with the people I'm connected to.

    I definitely like your approach bolting together the parts that make sense and looking at the view from here. You are the great distillator. And I feel that attraction and feel drawn to something in your words. We are hearing a similar resonance. When I talk to people, they hear my heart. I'm good at explaining my feelings, sometimes.

    Before I started catching up on your writing again, I had felt strongly and been led to the realization we are to develop ourselves to our fullest mind, body and spirit, here now. I think that is what made me think what I was hearing was aligning with the BPWH.

    It seemed to me the fact we might not be real the way we think we are is a pretty good crack in the wall to climb up with. That was a big deal to me as I began to listen to the higher ego. So AI and simulation seem like a good front to engage the materialists on. Now with LIGO and new findings from CERN, they know the standard model is just getting started.
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    Post by dan Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:04 pm

    The physicists at the LHC and at LIGO are also keeping busy.  Will it spoil their fun if they find out that they've been chasing their own tails?  

    It should not.  Somebody had to hold up the sky until the fullness of time.  The Standard Model of particle physics is a sight to behold.    Wigner's UEM provides a logical segue to the Logos.  

    The UEM works because we have been able to internalize its logic, especially intersubjectively.  

    I've made some effort to ensure that the BPWH conforms to intellectual standards.  That is not the problem.  The intellectuals will not budge until they realize that we can do an end-run around them.  

    That threat alone may be sufficient to get them worried.  

    Furthermore, even just the threat of Disclosure will help to keep them off balance.  

    Easily, we can represent a triple or quadruple threat.  If we can be sufficiently agile, they're liable to think we have them surrounded.  


    2:50edt----------

    All we need is some sort of 'man bites dog' story.  That was my intent all along.  There is more than ample fodder, particularly if we can use some prophetic leverage.  

    Capra&Wilber were unwilling to go where angels feared to tread.  


    4:15--------

    Eric raises the question of leveraging a news cycle or two. How about man bites dog..... or how the j-man and the spook....?



    (cont.)


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    Post by Guest Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:11 pm

    Actually I like Ken sometimes. I really just have a strong reaction to materialistic spirituality seemingly supporting egotistical fear. But there are many paths.

    http://www.kenwilber.com/blog/show/609

    What a great summary of my exepereince, nothing special. This is what is happening to many people, they are moving from exoteric to exotic to esoteric and back with both merged allowing for rational thought and subjective experience. Ken is just pushing for a fully formed post-modern rational exoteric and esoteric spirituality, yes yes yes! He has said in his summary exactly what I experienced and have been trying to say to you.

    So, while I dislike the selling of a system, I know he has some strong foundations here to build on. You might want to seek Ken out. He seems to be pushing the BPW in his way and being successful at it having become one of he great spiritual leaders of our time.
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    Post by Guest Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:11 pm

    Wow, posted that 11:11. Yes, that's meaningful.
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    Post by dan Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:24 pm

    Yes, we're not selling anything. We're saying that as long as anything is possible, why would anyone in their right mind settle for second best?

    The truth is simple. We have spent the millennia trying to complicate it. We've been looking for truth in all the wrong places. We have nowhere else to go, but to love. Get over it.... get used to it.

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    Post by dan Mon Apr 18, 2016 9:35 am

    It's time to do a brief recap on immaterialism......

    Mind is logically prior to matter.  Early on, with immaterialism, I entertained the notion that aboriginally there would exist an experiential chaos, not unlike the virtual chaos of quantum vacuum.  

    Then came Leibniz' principle of the identity of indiscernibles (PII)....

    With the idea of an eternally inflationary quantum chaos and the multiverses emerging out of it, the idea of some sort of pre-space or super-space is being presupposed.  Identical universes could arise.  

    The PII, however, tends to put a damper on any equivalently inflationary Meinongian jungle, in the experiential realm.  

    The whole question of discernibility seems to imply the presence of a discerning subject, not just any old experiencer.  We have discussed the distinction between sentience and sapience, which would be pertinent.  

    Only with sapience does the issue of individuality make sense.  Without the individuation of personhood, ontology has very little basis.  With atomism, an entire ontology is just assumed.  But, without an atomic basis, ontology becomes dependent on epistemology.  A robust ontology is only possible with an interpersonal subjectivity.  

    To us, multiverses and many-worlds make some sense. This sense making, however, is greatly limited when the sapience is conditioned by coherence. Sapience makes little sense, if it is not so conditioned.

    Assuming such a condition, practically guarantees an Earth-like background. It's only a short step to the BPW and its implied monism.


    (cont.)


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    Post by Guest Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:05 am

    A meditation...


    Hexagram 49: KO
    REVOLUTION
    Devotion to truth enables a revolution.

    The hexagram Ko announces the arrival of a time of revolution. A set of conditions, internal or external or both, is ready to pass away in favor of a more beneficial situation. What enables this transformation is your conscious and vigorous adherence to correct thought and behavior.

    No revolution in outer things is possible without a prior revolution in one's inner way of being. Whatever change you aspire to in your affairs must be preceded by a change in heart, and active deepening and strengthening of your resolve to meet every event with equanimity, detachment, and innocent goodwill. When this spiritual poise is achieved within, magnificent things are possible without.

    The revolutions of others are enabled also when we refine the fire of goodness and truth inside ourselves. Sincere commitment to higher things travels outward in powerful waves from the superior person, and all those around are affected by this. Indisputably, to lead one's inner self to truth and peace is to lead the outer world to truth and peace. A beneficial revolution is assured to one who takes this path now.
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    Post by dan Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:31 am

    Yes, very percipient.......

    Hexagram 49 even refers to the process of 'molting', which is very apt for our chrysalis analogy.  It also refers to an inner/higher truth.

    Then there is hexagram 61, which refers to love, truth and simplicity.  Rather powerful ideation, hereabouts.  

    I wonder if there's not a hexagram for microcosm?  


    Immaterialism and the PII lead straight to the BPWH, as does the PSR.  Good old Gottfried left his fingerprints all over this sucker.  He mainly didn't have the CTC.  We need to check his eschatology.  In any case, he was way ahead of his time.  Newton might just as well have mugged him in some dark alley.  

    So, yes, there had to be a primordial, interpersonal subjectivity just to get together anything slightly resembling a world.  All the rest can be accomplished with straightforward symmetry breaking.  We are well equipped with such assemblages as the trinity, the olympiad, the zodiad, etc......



    (cont.)


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    Post by Guest Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:10 pm

    Indeed. We must seek to understand the positions of others gently. Through openness and gentleness the correct solution can be reached. The entire I Ching itself is the microcosm of every possible human situation.

    To use the I Ching for divination is influenced by two factors: the first factor is the objective reading of Time in this present point in space. The second factor is the role of your place in that measurement, with regards to the specific question you are asking.

    I was given the Revolution hexagram in query about our conversation. Interesting. Take it or leave my intuitive woo Wink I'll take it. The Universe is giving a nod in our direction.


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    Post by dan Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:37 pm

    Our interests and skills certainly have the potential for synergy.

    If I can just keep you enthusiastic about this little project, I think we might finally get it off the ground.  The ideas have had ample time to germinate, certainly in my case.  

    And, if the time isn't already ripe....... well, I hope we don't have to get any closer to the edge of the abyss.  

    If you continue to catch on, at an accelerating rate..... well, it indicates that the time for the MoAPS cannot be too far off.  I would be surprised if we don't find others breathing down our neck.  Hey, the water's great..... it could be quite a swim party.  

    Should we be worried about the Katechon catching up with us?  Should we be looking over our shoulders for the anti-revolutionaries?  I'm pretty sure that they have already been read the riot-act, when it comes to minding their own business.  

    Were any of them to interfere, I'm rather sure that there would be pushback from the cosmic PtB.  The mundane PtB just don't want to go there.  

    This plan of action, if indeed there is a plan, has been around for all eternity.  Them that needs to know were informed, decades ago.  This is what MJ12 was all about.  They've done their job, and have already ridden into the sunset.  


    5:15----------

    So, yes, the entire I-Ching serves as a microcosm. Good point. At the least, it would indicate a form of panpsychism.

    (cont.)


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    Post by Guest Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:10 pm

    I think this represents some of the most advanced religious thinking on Oneness, at least from the Sufi perspective. http://www.workingwithoneness.org/ and http://www.workingwithoneness.org/about

    I really resonate with this message.
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    Post by dan Mon Apr 18, 2016 3:26 pm

    The modern world lies under a pervasive sense of anguish, of being abandoned, or at least experiencing God as absent. Yet events that seem to turn our lives upside down and inside out are part of God's redemptive plan, not only for us, but for the world in which we live. God may be preparing a great awakening for the world, if God can find enough people to cooperate in this mysterious plan.

    — Thomas Keating
    Hmmm......

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    Post by Guest Mon Apr 18, 2016 5:04 pm

    Wink

    I'm feeling we are in the flow of something here. It's powerful. I feel it. This is important.

    Albert Einstein wrote:A human being is part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. We experience ourselves, our thoughts and feelings as something separate from the rest. A kind of optical delusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. The true value of a human being is determined primarily by the measure and the sense in which they have obtained liberation from the self. We shall require a substantially new manner of thinking if humanity is to survive.

    An optical delusion...

    There is an element of the astral in my experience and words. Part of putting all this together comes from the place outside of time and space inside and it does something when you touch it, introduces an agent into the solution that opens things up in ways I am only beginning to experience and understand. Whatever my path, it will be walked through the power and knowledge of the inner fire lighting my way and thus is an integral part of A Way forward.

    This reminder and experience is my contribution to the BPWH, perhaps the necessary ingredient, mystical inner experience.

    All the cool kids are doing it.
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    Post by Guest Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:33 pm

    WHEEL AND—WHOA!


    The Great Wheel of Samsara.

    The Wheel of the Law. (Dhamma.)

    The Wheel of the Taro.

    The Wheel of the Heavens.

    The Wheel of Life.

    All these Wheels be one; yet of all these the Wheel of the TARO alone avails thee consciously.

    Meditate long and broad and deep, O man, upon this Wheel, revolving it in thy mind!

    Be this thy task, to see how each card springs necessarily from each other card, even in due order from The Fool unto The Ten of Coins.

    Then, when thou know’st the Wheel of Destiny complete, may’st thou perceive THAT Will which moved it first. [There is no first or last.]

    And lo! thou art past through the Abyss.

    The Book of Lies KEF.OH.

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    Post by Guest Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:52 pm

    Let me share a stream I am following at the moment on Tarot I was led to from the Interwebs. Seems relevant. This is a summary of a conversation with a mystical chaotic fellow.

    What say you...again...Dan to those who believe we live in a random, meaningless, causeless universe, which is part of an Omniverse? Many esoteric folks see it this way from the Shadow left path. Make your own luck here and now, screw the rest of the suckers.

    ---

    We live in 'organized chaos' trying to learn how to be happy.

    The Light showing the way is from the Hermit's lamp.

    There is hope.

    This Universe was conceived for our survival.

    Do not let yourself get confused on the Tree…Know the difference!

    Do we only have a random chance of survival?

    ---

    Well, not if you take history and the esoteric and prophetic traditions into account. There is nothing random about it. If anything, it is an organized disturbance setup for our evolution and survival. It wants our good.

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