Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

First topic message reminder :

2:40pm EST

White Smoke 30 min ago.... Watching it live... awaiting the New Pope to walk out on the balcony. Vatican Guards and Italian Naval Soldiers marching on the steps of St.Peters Basilica, to the music of the Marching Band.




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edit notice: This thread is the Part Two continuation from the original thread - last post here -

https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t6p990-hello-cy-hello-omf-ii#2215

Cy,

You do often refer to the 'Source', and suggest that you have a personal connection, therewith.  

However, in common parlance, the 'Source' is usually used as a lable for something impersonal or inhuman.  

I can empathize with your connection, becuse my main personal connection was only semi-personal.  It was with this 'Sophia' entity, which seemed only vaguely human/feminine.  

It was Sophia, however, who led me to reconnect with Jesus, via John 16:12ff.  That connection was when I was ~12, reading a homework assignment, http://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Story-Ever-Told/dp/038508028X (1949).  

I believe that those of us who suppose that we connect with the 'Source' need to try to be as explicit about it as possible, if we suppose that we might have some public role to play, therewith.  

Yes, and then, besides Sophia and Jesus, there is also Ron, about whom I know both more and less, than about the other two.  


So, why do I trust these three........?

Because, ultimately, I have to trust myself and my own sense of coherence.  They hang together or they hang separately.  And that is going to go for all the rest of us.  Yes?  

....got to run........


7:30--------

Yes, we do have to trust ourselves, with the understanding that wrt the Source our individual selves are an illusion, and are subject to many untruths.  

We can trust ourselves only to the degree that we can trust our social/spiritual contexts.  Usually that trust has to begin with our families.  If not, we are facing a great challenge.  


Many are the social groups which attempt to build internal trust by projecting external distrust, and, necessarily, this dichotomy begins with the family.  

Our parents would probably be derelict, if they did not teach us to distrust strangers, up to a point.  We then spend most of our lives trying to figure out which strangers to trust and which not.  

Now, with the internet, etc, that task only becomes more complex and, yes, vulnerable to manipulation on every possible level.  

On many fronts, our survival will depend upon our developing the means to augment all existing measures of tust.  Would it be possible to accomplish this without the benefit of the spirit?  

If so, the means of doing so remain obscure.  

If there does not exist an untapped spiritual dimension within ourselves and the world, are we not screwed?  Not to put to fine a point on it.  

My problem with Cy is that, up to this point, her primary MO seems to be to project distrust upon some shadowy others.  This is rather like my evangelical colleagues who project distrust onto Satan and his minions, although, at GFC, there is less of this projection than there is at OMF, surprisingly enough.  Ultimately, trust in the Source has to overcome all else, or, yes, we are screwed.  

I frankly don't know if Cy will be able to step up to this greater level of trust.  I trust that she will, but am not sure that, now just turned 70, I will live to see the day.  

As a for instance, I am under the impression that the patriot movement puts more trust in their guns than they put in the Source.  If I am wrong about that, I would like to be corrected.

Sorry to hear about your E-incident.  Such activity seems to be going around, recently.  Some more subtle than others.   Those Nigerians are always up to no good it seems.  One might naturally assume, given the curiousness as of late, it could have been a homegrown Nigerian.  No real way to get to the bottom of that?  You would think Gmail could recover those for you, given the connections.  

So as to not pollute your space:

https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t124p45-musings-of-randomness#4094

Cy, Pman, Jake, MD02, Gary, et al.,

Happy Thanksgiving!!

And speaking of guns, Debbie's nephew-in-law shot their turkey up on the hill behind their house. That's up in the North-east Kingdom. We just hope it wasn't an AR15. And, clearly, it was self-defense!

Happy Thanksgiving all!

Since I'm cooking today, perhaps you can forgive me if I am slow to answer your thoughts on the current discussion. Turkey, stuffing, mashed potatoes, corn bread, brioche, turkey gravy, marshmallow covered yams, corn, green beans, pumpkin and cherry pie all have a higher security classification and priority on this day of remembering Provenance and Human Exceptional-ism than does Majic, the Alternative Space Program, ET, corruption, or tyranny. Tell anyone in the system who misses my howling to take a number and stand in line. The heavenly Turkey reigns supreme.

lol

Hugs for your Birthday Dan,

Cy

dan wrote:Cy,

You do often refer to the 'Source', and suggest that you have a personal connection, therewith.  

-- Yes I do suggest that.  I've also suggested to you that the connection spans more than even this lifetime although outside of this lifetime I've been sparse on the details.

However, in common parlance, the 'Source' is usually used as a lable for something impersonal or inhuman.  

-- Incorrect wrt myself.  It is a label that illustrates I regard the Source as something more than what the translated documents oft quoted by so many folks describe it.  It is a reference to a multimillenial regard and cultural experience for it that is older than Christianity.  So many forget the refuge found in ancient Hibernia and Provincia Britannia by Christianity when Rome was so conflicted with its presence...eradicate them or let them flourish?  And once again during the fall of Rome when the northern tribes flooded the empire sacking cities.  We were there and gave safe haven, only to be harassed into hiding, burned from our homes in acts of genocide, and chased from our land by the same we gave haven to just over a millenia and a half later...such short memories.  We who venerated the same Source and still do.  The deist founders of this nation met once more with us as kindred and in recipriocity and belief in their efforts we contributed lives and opened our libraries to them that them might have a whole view of known history with which to work; a history to complete and compliment their own knowledge and resources.

The Source is inhuman.  It is so far above and beyond our current development that to speak of it purely in human terms might be considered disrespectful to it.  The Source is of a nature however to aspire to.  It has supported and encouraged human potential and positive development in every imaginable way, short of doing life itself for us.  I fail to see how you could assume that a simple term which is neutral from the arguments of organized religion from which we have clearly kept ourselves separate that we regard it as an impersonal entity.  Far from it.  We merely choose to see it wholly as it is rather than a digestible image.

I can empathize with your connection, becuse my main personal connection was only semi-personal.  It was with this 'Sophia' entity, which seemed only vaguely human/feminine.  

It was Sophia, however, who led me to reconnect with Jesus, via John 16:12ff.  That connection was when I was ~12, reading a homework assignment, http://www.amazon.com/Greatest-Story-Ever-Told/dp/038508028X (1949).  

-- you will never hear me quote scriptures.  Scriptures are appropriate for some people who feel the need of them, but it has never been for us.  I, like mine own, prefer a direct and personal relationship based on mutual experience.  The perception of others interpreting via a belief system and historical view of theocratic nature is and has been a cause of conflict in the past.  It is mine and my cultural group's preference to continue to base ours on direct experience.  We do however recognize personal narratives, which we have heard more directly.  This includes the individual Jesus.

I believe that those of us who suppose that we connect with the 'Source' need to try to be as explicit about it as possible, if we suppose that we might have some public role to play, therewith.  

-- perhaps.  But a great deal of my personal experience with it is highly personal and not pertinent to the public needs for it involved itself with me for the formulation of what I am now in this time.  Other portions some of which is or could be of value to the public, are in the range of the fantastic and as we all know the public has a problem with things that exceed scientific understanding at this time.  I have spoken on occasions wrt Synchronicity, over the course of my years at OMF  Synchronicity is simple enough to follow and build an experience base with should any researcher care to go to the effort.  Yet only two have ever fully approached me about it.  And so my references have been largely passed over.  What more do you want?

Yes, and then, besides Sophia and Jesus, there is also Ron, about whom I know both more and less, than about the other two.  

-- You are not the only one who has or continues to touch base with various system inhabitants.  This involvement with Source & system inhabitants and all the fantastic which goes with it does not elevate us to the hood of demi-god.  I have carried and delivered the message in the bottle and it still makes me no different than any other person on this planet.  The Human Potential exists within every individual on this world...even those who carry a bit or more of otherworldly dna.  This world is not a closed system  What the People both on an individual and collective level choose to do with this Potential is a matter of free will.  The Source declares intention to support and assist those who seek to fulfill that Potential.  This you may trust for it comes direct from the Source.


So, why do I trust these three........?

Because, ultimately, I have to trust myself and my own sense of coherence.  They hang together or they hang separately.  And that is going to go for all the rest of us.  Yes?  

....got to run........


7:30--------

Yes, we do have to trust ourselves, with the understanding that wrt the Source our individual selves are an illusion, and are subject to many untruths.  

-- no our individual selves are not an illusion.  They are the spark off the old block.  They are where the Source itself seeks a beginning...a blooming of something that so very far in the wide flung future might become as it is.  We are its children in an array of color and type it sees as wonderful, although not all children fulfill their potential.  That failure is only a hurdle to be surpassed.  The Source in its immensity has what for us at least would seem an eternity to 'wait and see'.  We however are interwoven with the many other beings who are our siblings in the greater scheme of the universe.  Not everyone else out there can wait forever for us to get our act together.  Ref. posts of the past in this thread.

We can trust ourselves only to the degree that we can trust our social/spiritual contexts.  Usually that trust has to begin with our families.  If not, we are facing a great challenge.  


Many are the social groups which attempt to build internal trust by projecting external distrust, and, necessarily, this dichotomy begins with the family.  

-- I would agree with this, generally speaking.

Our parents would probably be derelict, if they did not teach us to distrust strangers, up to a point.  We then spend most of our lives trying to figure out which strangers to trust and which not.  

-- I have had the benefit of being taught differently, courtesy of my fam's hereditary culture.  I was taught to listen first, and think second before opening mouth and inserting foot.  lol.

Now, with the internet, etc, that task only becomes more complex and, yes, vulnerable to manipulation on every possible level.  

-- the largest problem I see with the internet is that so much of communication is unspoken or relational.  When your relation to someone is limited to a non-physical form of interaction, and is fleeting in its association or without the peripheral contexts which support a deeper understanding, then full communication can be afflicted with misunderstanding.  Also the language we use though it originates from the same roots is not altogether the same.  These subjects on the fringe of human understanding is developing new terminology and contexts, and different groups go through this process separately due to the truth embargo which causes different products to arise.  Thus the embargo complicates our development and much time is lost in comparing notes and trying to come to an understanding of what others know or understand and how that knowledge came into being.

On many fronts, our survival will depend upon our developing the means to augment all existing measures of tust.  Would it be possible to accomplish this without the benefit of the spirit?

-- There are none who operate in this paradigm alone Dan.  Some just don't realize they do not walk alone. 

If so, the means of doing so remain obscure.  

If there does not exist an untapped spiritual dimension within ourselves and the world, are we not screwed?  Not to put to fine a point on it.  

-- You have no need to worry about there being an untapped spiritual dimension within ourselves and the world.  There most certainly is...but I would expand this to say that it is not exactly untapped.  Only that the degree and direction of its use is not always coherent with what individuals and groups such as yours see as necessary.  This nation for example is deeply spiritual on many levels but their choices in how they express it, has courses and forms which many such as yourself no longer recognize because it has taken a track different from yours.  The end result might be the same or it might not.  But you do not and possibly will not recognize it in its travels and expression.  This does not lessen its value or potential impact.  It only illustrates your degree of disconnect.

My problem with Cy is that, up to this point, her primary MO seems to be to project distrust upon some shadowy others.  This is rather like my evangelical colleagues who project distrust onto Satan and his minions, although, at GFC, there is less of this projection than there is at OMF, surprisingly enough.  Ultimately, trust in the Source has to overcome all else, or, yes, we are screwed.  

-- project distrust?  I point out routinely problematic behavior, corruption, disconnection, which builds a clear image of where we are currently working from.  That is not projecting distrust.  It is pulling the wool from all eyes.  I operate with one foot in the light and one foot in the shadows holding open a bridge.  You have not noticed.  But perhaps that bridge was not for your use?  Perhaps you have your own?  I am a woman of no illusions wrt our human condition.  This has no bearing on my trust of the Source.  The Source and I have a clear understanding of our mutual relationship.  What I have been asked to point out is that it takes more than trust of the Source....because free will is indeed seated within us, we must act in all matters on the behalf of our Potential or it stalls the Source's involvement.  As long as there are those who do so, the Source is free to participate in a supportive, uplifting role.  A nudge or a miracle here or there is part of the deal when the individual and groups endeavor toward the goal.

I frankly don't know if Cy will be able to step up to this greater level of trust.  I trust that she will, but am not sure that, now just turned 70, I will live to see the day.  

-- Sorry Dan, but if this is your view of me, I'm way ahead of you.  Do you not have enough proof in the continued existence of OMF, of the work I do as a bridge, as a communication facilitator, as a member of the liberty movement, as Synchronicity's Apprentice?  You seem troubled with a condition Anne McCaffrey author of the Dragon Riders of Pern series of books describes as "hide-bound" to kype a useful metaphor.  Its a form of tunnel vision.  Self-limiting.  Come from the dusty laden table, and darkened hall and enter the fresh air, fine things are afoot!  There truly are metaphorical dragon riders and THEY RISE, THEY FLY!

A Thousand voices keen at night
A Thousand voices wail,
A Thousand voices cry in fright
A Thousand voices fail

You followed them, young healer lass
till they could not be seen;
A Thousand dragons made their loss
A bridge 'tween you and me.

And in the cold and darkest night
A single voice was heard,
A single voice both clear and bright,
It says a single word.

That word is what you now must say
To open up the door
In Benden Weyr to find the way
To all my healing lore

It's all that I can give to you,
To save both Weyr and Hold
It's little I can offer you, 
Who paid with Dragon gold

Symbiont: A lifeform that lives in harmony with its host, often performing valuable functions for the host, e.g. E. coli in the human gut.

Harper, teach.
Miner, mine.
Smith, forge.
Healer, cure.
Dragonrider, protect them all.

It is the duty of the Eridani Adept to preserve their assigned '-ome.' 
~ Excerpt from the Eridani Edicts.

-ome (suffix) (i) the biological portion of an ecosystem.  (ii) the material and genetic information required to re-create the biological portion of an ecosystem.  Examples: the "terome" refers to the biological portion of the Terran ecosystem, the "cetome" refers to the biological portion of the Cetus III ecosystem, the "eridanome" refers to the biological portion of the Eridani ecosystem.  ~ Glossary of terms, Ecosystems:  From -ome to Planet, 24th Edition

As a for instance, I am under the impression that the patriot movement puts more trust in their guns than they put in the Source.  If I am wrong about that, I would like to be corrected.

--  wholly wrong about that.  The preservation of natural rights and the tools that ensure it, e.g. guns, wakefulness, abhorrence of corruption & illicit secrecy etcetera, fulfill the free will portion of the agreement; they fulfill the requirement to be active participants in one's own story, enabling the participation of the Source.  The Patriot Movement upholds the founders intentions and the creation of this nation prior to wholesale adulteration of the original purpose.  They see the self-destructive course the corruption is taking us in and wish to return it to an honorable and just nature.  Now, you can listen to me who has gone within and investigated for first hand understanding or you can listen to the propaganda by parasites such as the Southern Poverty Law Center which was created to sustain the status quo through demonetization of all opposition to corruption.  Houston we have a problem...the ship is listing and taking on water...it is overloaded with disease and trash.  A house cleaning is in order.

Again this does not bear on the issue of trust.  If you know where I stand is that not more trustworthy and equitable than if you do not?  What of our silent observers who fear so greatly they cannot or will not speak in the face of the corruption even when they are directly addressed or spoken of?  

Does that not speak volumes as to the condition of our state of affairs?  I fear not to speak for a force more formidable than any aspect of the corruption could imagine dogs my every move and directs me where and when to look.  It bids me speak truth to power and encumbered.  It reinforces my actions.  It upholds my maintenance of virtues...that I might plow the road where and when needed.  

I am at the core of this great storm the Source wields, and the wind and spray freshens and energizes me.  I am roar...silent yet not...ever present yet shadowed...a root and a leaf..I am an outreached hand....I am with the herd at water and again when they thunder across the bluff....I with the ingenuity of the tinkerer in his shop....I am with the great whales roaming in the ocean depths and dying on the shore...I am the focus within the student in the library....I am with the sparrow and the squirrel outside your window...I am frost that chases the snowboarder upon the hill...I am the renewing life in the soil and spirit of wonder within dreams of stars...I am roar....I am an earthquake in the universe.  

I am a guardian of life and liberty.

Cyrellys

Cy,

Let me be the first to acknowledge that, had you not been able to salvage a significant portion of OM, I and several others of us here would have been left out in the cold.  We owe a significant portion of our public lives to your continuing efforts on that score.  

As a for instance, when my email archive got trashed on Monday, I was greatly relieved by the fact that my most important emails had been sequestered here at OM.  


So here a few of us are, huddled together in this small lifeboat, as if cut adrift on the wide ocean of the internet, with the seas rising and the skies threatening.  

And, yes, I surely do share your suspicions about the dramatic dremise of OMF I.  I do not doubt that my bbq-buddy was either complicit or complacent in that denouement/demarche.  

I hope and trust the backups are being maintained.  History does repeat.  


I believe that Cy and I harbor similar ambitions wrt saving the world.   She is a bit more coy about it than am I.  

Both of us are well aware that, with the PtB, and to the extent that either of us have ever shown up on their radar, our continued public presence is tolerated only in as much as they view us a potnentially useful idiots.  


But here is where Cy and I probably have divergent beliefs.......

I believe that there is a plan of salvation, and, to the extent that either of us have a non-trivial role therein, the PtB are not going to touch us, whether or not we have an arms cache in our basements.  

My connection with Ron has, at least in the past, seved to underscore the above fact, and to put the PtB on notice that their mundane powers are very limited when it comes to interfering with the plan of salvation.   I would be a bit surprised if the POTUS, for instance, had not been so apprised.  

These leads us up to the even more significant divergence between Cy and me..... It is all about the timing.......

Virtually every last human has been bedazzled by the keystone of the entire scientific enterprise, which is that you and I are lost in space and time.  

Despite my having been sermonizing on this topic for ~7 years on OMF I&II, not a single person here, or anywhere else, has shown the slightest credulity wrt my small-world hypothesis (SWH), which is the kestone of my BPWH.  

Yes, the large/infinite world hypothesis (IWH) is the keystone of the cosmic coverup.  The role of the PtB in perpetuating the IWH myth is minuscule wrt that of the Cosmic Intelligence in setting it up, in the first palce.  

The only folks who would agree with me on this score are the rapidly diminishing number of biblical creationists.  These are the very same folks who would have me crucified in a jiffy, were they to ever take my spiritual ambitions as anything more than sheer lunacy.  

The bible very clearly specifies a 'grand delusion' and the resulting 'great apostasy', in the context of the Endtimes.  The bible believers are uniformly of the opinion that these manifestations are directly related to the personal charismatic advent of the Antichrist.  My nearly total lack of charisma is all that allows me to be tolerated at GFC.  

TBMK, these beliefs are just part of the cosmic setup for D-day, just as surely as was my dad involved in the strategic planning for the subterfuge that kept the Germans wrong-footed wrt to the historical D-day.  Yes, virtually the entirety of human history has been aimed at the cosmic Bait&Switch operation that will culminate in the Rapture event.


2:45---------

Cy and virtually everyone else in the world believes that we have all the time in the world to straighten out ourselves and the rest of the world.  Yes, this is the Grand Delusion and the resulting Great Apostasy of which every last one of us partakes, whole heartedly.  

Boys and girls, do I have news for you!  

What is the chance that, within my few remaining years, anyone, let alone the entire world, will heed my words?  Nil to none?!  

But I am also perfectly aware that these slim odds could be reversed in a trice, just with a single phone call.  

Do I hold my breath?  I get 'paid' to hold my breath.  I do so, gladly.


Why am I then so special...... especially targeted, either with delusion or with wisdom?  The delusionary side of that coin could easily be chalked up to megalomania.  The wisdom possibility would simply be in keeping with the time-honored prophetic tradition.  

Having been playing this game for the better part of my three-score and ten, I've been afforded ample opportunity to appraise both sides.  My personal jury is still out, but, I know, vastly better than anyone else in the world, that my odds are vastly less slim than they appear to everyone else, at first blush, and, TBMK, no one has gotten beyond that first blush, present company included.  


Because of this sociological/spiritual fact, everyone's eyes just glaze over whenever I speak of the SWH.  Hey, boys and girls, fear not, it is all just part of the Plan.  It is the one fact that saves me from the tender mercies of the bible-believers and the PtB, up until the morning we awaken to find that our world has been stood on its head.  The building-block that was rejected becomes the cornerstone of our brave new world.  Praise the Lord.  That's just how the world turns.  Would we have it any other way?


3:45---------

But, hey, I've been wrong before, and the liberty-patriots may well be right. The world will be getting worse, a lot worse, before it ever begins to get better...... we are approaching many decades or generations of tribulation, with alternations between fascism and chaos.

I would be tempted to join the throngs of those, including Cy, who believe this scenario, were I not of the strong opinion that the widely anticipated global Tribulation, signaled by the abrupt ending of material progress, has by anticiapted by the Creator, from day-one.

We would, indeed, spiral into the abyss, were the Plan not already fully initiated.

Look at it this way.........

Already the global standard of linving has reached a peak wrt the crucial measure of our per-capita energy consumption. The number of people at the starvation line has been holding steady at around one billion. That number should start creeping up.

Already we see the sure signs of the zero-sum game, beggar thy neighbor economics, which will only be growing more pronounced.

God can put an end to this downward spiral, with a single phone call. How long will God wait to make that phone call?

Why wait at all? That is the one pressing question of the day. All else is vanity!



(cont.)

Further searching on the internet shows conflicting measures amongst the various indices of global well-being.  

Vastly more important and much less tangible are likely to be the measures of hope and anxiety.  The best measue of these two are likely to be the indices of consumer/investor confidence, when they are bolstered by food price indices, e.g. http://www.fao.org/worldfoodsituation/FoodPricesIndex/en/ . This latter index shows food prices holding reasonably steady since the shock in '07.  It was that shock, in combination with the global recession from which the world is still struggling to recover.  

The primary offset to the economy/food shock has been the surge in global connectivity.  Internet access passed the billion mark in 2012 and is projected to continue its exponential growth for the next several years, mainly through smart phones.  

Increased internet connectivity will facilitate the rapid onset of the MoAPS, once there is the triggering phone call.  That connectivity is God's safety-net wrt any new threats to global economic confidence.

It is the juxtaposition of these two measures...... connectivity vs. economic anxiety that will most closely determine the timing of the phone call that will be heard 'round the world.  It will be the phone call to the POTUS that sets in motion the MoAPS.  

Right now, I would be the most likely person to post the fact of this phone call to the internet, if previous protocol is to be followed.  This would be following the Occelot/Ferret protocol, concerning timing.  

The probable plan is that the news would be picked up by the wire-services within 24 hours of the initial posting.  Whatever else is going on in the world at that point, short of an all-out nuclear war, would quickly be overcome by this news.  

Confirmation of the 'data' behind the MoAPS would start emerging in a steady stream.  Skeptics will never really have a chance to mount an organized counter-offensive.  They will be kept off-balance by the flow of events, from thence forward.  

Those are the parameters in question.  There is no doubt that, absent a MoAPS, we are rapidly approaching a precipice in global trust/confidence.  Just how close God wants us to come to this precipice is well above my pay-grade.  With a half-life of ~10yr, I could easily be bypassed, given the viability of the Thorium option.  

Nonetheless, God and I might have a few words, were that option to be exercized arbitrarily!  

Hey, just sayin'........!  


12:15----------

IMHO, this protocol has been in place since ~'43.  The last major update came in 2/92..... http://bestpossibleworld.com/nexu52.htm#712 .

There is, of course, the possibility that the O/F protocol has been replaced by the CL protocol, and that may have been what was signaled in 2/92.  But, also of course, that revision is conditioned upon my being kept, explicitly, in the dark.  This simple condition would go a long way to explaining the peculiarities and vagaries of the R&D protocol.  

One could envision a 'game' rather like the Groucho duck protocol.... http://www.liketelevision.com/liketelevision/tuner.php?channel=1207&format=tv&theme=guide .  It just a question of saying the magic word(s).  Thus the 24/7 blogging.  Yes?  

But included therein would likely be a necessary pattern of public interaction with one or more other individuals.  This latter condition would likely be the main sticking point, any more, i.e. once the last major built-in hold had been surmounted.  Two such hold-points were the tearing down of the Berlin Wall and 9/11.  Can we reasonably anticipate any more such holds?  Maybe/probably not.  

Given the timely lapse of the O/F protocol, this is where we are, with only the X2/KC between us and eternity.  Would we have it any other way?  

And, yes, the A&D show provides the most likely outlet for said interaction. I have not yet taken any of the opportunities to explicitly broach this option. My bad? But, hey, no time like the present.

It could be that there is another hold-point wrt the second person. That is a question to raise. It could well be answered at present, like yes or no. So be it.

Happy Thanksgiving, all.  We in Canada had our day last month.  But we do share "Black Friday" craze.
 
Interesting conversations here.
 
O/F?... the allusive timing, the clock....?
digress
 
Yesterday I listened to a debate.  I downloaded it in Feb 2012, never got around to listening to it, forgot about it, and then stumbling upon it again yesterday.
 
A debate between Richard Dolan and John Alexander, moderated by Leslie Keen-
Subject points:  Are UFOs real?
Are they from outside this world?
Is there a Gov't cover-up?
Is there a Secrete Gov't?
Has there been any reverse engineering attempts?
 
Main thrust of debate - Is there any evidence to substantiate either the Yea or Nay position to these questions.  
 
The debate lasted 3 hours.  It was most fascinating.  Richard, of course, argued with the historical facts (incidents, particulars, names, quotes) of which he could rattle off with great ease.  John argued that Gov't does not work as people think and the so called "cover-up" is not as orchestrated as main-stream Ufologers think.  And that the entire well of evidence for UFOs et el, is nearly insignificant in relation to the overall concerns of Gov't Intel, Military and Sciences.
 
Both made excellent points.  Tit for Tat.  It was apparent that John has protocols to respect restricting his freedom of speech, although I perceived no reason to believe he was intentionally misleading.  They both believe the phenomena is real and not from this world, but have wholely different interpreted views of the evidence.  I side significantly more toward Richard's view.  I'm sorry I can't provide a link as I downloaded it 20 mths ago.  I'm sure you could find it by Googling.
 
I felt John's closing comment to be the most insightful of the two regarding the entire UFO Subject and our earthly approach to it.... he said, "I don't think we are asking the right questions."
 
This statement kind of hung in the air, leaving the participants wondering what he means.  Mind-Pause.  The panel and audience had been totally focused in on nuts-n-bolts Ufology.  They were discussing answers to many questions.  His statement didn't fit the long debate.  And then in that millisecond pause of bewilderment, there was a "ah, yes" exhale from everyone.  Ever so softly agreeing, but no one saying what it is they agree about his closing comment.  It was like everyone one was thinking, "Oh Ya, that part of it all".  The part we're not talking about....It's far too way-out-there to talk about.
 
UT
 
Yes, John's position and views had been difficult for Richard, the Panel and general listeners to resolve and understand. How could he be a believer and yet hold positions diametrically opposed to the majority of Ufologers?

Without saying it, he cryptically answered it in his closing comment.

Dan, this is where we hold common ground. The UTs are in charge!

It seems to me that John is reluctant to open this dialog, but quite obviously, it is where he really is.

And so if UTs be in charge, where would we find the answers to our questions? O/F? And who tells them? Who directs the Prime Directive? What does their 'calling card' look like?

I see you are returning to question the protocol.


.

dan wrote:....It just a question of saying the magic word(s).  Thus the 24/7 blogging.  Yes?  

But included therein would likely be a necessary pattern of public interaction with one or more other individuals.  This latter condition would likely be the main sticking point, any more, i.e. once the last major built-in hold had been surmounted.  Two such hold-points were the tearing down of the Berlin Wall and 9/11.  Can we reasonably anticipate any more such holds?  Maybe/probably not.  

Given the timely lapse of the O/F protocol, this is where we are, with only the X2/KC between us and eternity.

I think you may be answering your own question.  But then erring by digressing to a facsimile of the predominant Evangelical position - there are no hold-points between now and Christ's return.
 
Which I believe is a difficult position to meld with Biblical Prophecy and Y'shua/"Jesus" teaching.
 
You ponder at least another, quote, "necessary pattern of public interaction with one or more other individuals..... the last major built-in hold"
 
There is such a hold in UT lore.  What do I mean by "UT Lore"?  Well that would be The Word manifest among us, and those who whispered into the ears of the Major Prophets. = UT
 
And I think we should listen to them.  N'est ce pas?  After all they are in charge.  My opinion, perhaps.  
 
The Berlin Wall and 9/11, you say?  The last two hold-points.  They could fit into UT Prophecy, as causes toward effects.
 
But there is at least one major hold-point yet missing between now and eternity.  Someone brokers Peace in the Middle East between the Christians and the Jews, Rome and Israel - The Olive Branch.  We saw a sign of that building up, through Ratzinger's short rein.  But it hasn't been Publicly ratified yet.  This would be a major hold-point that few would be expecting.
 
In Biblical prophecy, this could be argued to be the very Mother of all Fulcrums (MOAF) that levers the world toward the MOAPs.
 
Who could pull that off?
 
 
.

MD02 wrote:
So as to not pollute your space:

https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t124p45-musings-of-randomness#4094

>

Dan, no offense, but you/some of your friends look for connection to the Logos while being the most disconnected from it.  They hide, feigning truth with untruths while seeking connections to its greater meanings.  Is there disconnect with this methodology of hiding truth, while seeking it?  You will never find that connection until the world knows 'the reality'. Is that the curse of intellectualism, to know through dissertation and memorization, yet so unable to know without knowing?

>

The dream
Everyone will eventually know the minds of others like their own and 'trust' will become a word long forgotten because deception will be impossible to create.

Imagine for a moment – this reality, or pretend its true momentarily.

Yes, the book ACIM, says there is no forgiveness in heaven.  As it is unthinkable that it would be required.
 
Trust? what restricts this wish we all desire.
 
You make a good point MD...deception.
 
My first thought was that the root cause wasn't so nefarious, but rather innate.  Arising out of human instinct and our condition.  Natural Fear, inducing neurosis.
 
We appear to be prone to create and develop internal answers to why and what-for everything, and everything that happens.  But because we can't always obtain enough information to be accurate in our assessment, we tend toward formulating some answer that would allow us to continue to live within our paradigm without the duress of mystery.  As mystery prompts fear.  Many of these constructs are inevitably neurotic in nature.  Untrue realities that we know are incomplete and incapable with true reality.  However many live it anyway, knowing it is not true reality, yet act, live, function and commune as if it is reality.  Being that we are gregarious (innate, instinctual need) we are prone to impart our constructed pseudo reality upon others close to us in order to create a safe feeling environment of common belief that eases the trials and burdens of daily survival.  This is so compelling that it is common to actually seek and desire a construct that someone else has devised, even if it is false, as long as it satisfies our needs for a reduction in fear and ease of survival.
 
This Human condition naturally induces and sustains our reduced levels of trust.  And so 'neurosis' is the culprit.  'Deception' is merely a form of designed neurosis.  First to self then to others.  And virtually everyone is guilty of it, to some degree or another.
 
Thus, as one may be projecting a neurotic construct, we can't readily trust their projected truth.  It's just too dangerous.
 
So, we're stuck with it and we all know it.  Reducing to a minimum is all we can do.  As best we can.  But even that has a price.  One that many feel is too high to pay.  Fear thus compels them to hold on to their neurosis.  And while they hold on, others who have released it must somehow reside with those who have not.
 
Que sera sera
 
 
.
 
 
 
Edit a couple hours later:
I see MD, that you posted on your blog, a TED Talk of Simon Sinek sharing his views on the restrictions of trust.  Serendipity! we've perceived the same.  However he expressed it better than I.
Thanks

Cyrellys wrote:
I don't distrust you Dan.  Yes you and I differ on a number of things, but at the core, the well being of this world and its peoples is what we're about.

I see you within the context you have set for yourself.  I can see you working toward the same goal but by a different road.  

Can two roads ultimately compliment each other?  I do believe so or I wouldn't be holding down the fort.  This was supposed to have been Bren's gig not mine.  It is a necessary component, this knowledge cache, so I have stayed.

I can't say ultimately why you should trust me.  I'm a woman with a war sword tasked to play diplomat and to speak truth to power - some think I'm too young and warlike for the job.  Another felt I was just what was necessary given a predicated set of circumstances.  Ask Synch.  This was the Source's idea and he enlisted certain others to ask me to take up the cause....the cause of human potential...same as Jesus was bound to do.

If I'm lucky, they're all wrong and I get to play obscure nobody with silly ideas in my pocket and a blog full of bs -- and life will roll on without catastrophe rearing its ugly head.  If their right?  I'm cursed.  Cursed to be one of several to throw a monkey wrench in the turbine of darkness.  There's a helluva pinwheel to reel out of control.  And if it comes to that, I will relish my handiwork grim though it would be.  The result of past lives I've never been fully able to shake...ask our corruption ridden system how to revive an ancient elemental.  If it's asked on a good day they might tell you just get on the bad side of the Creator and enjoy the results.

People are worth it, whether any of them realize it or not.  The Source keeps reminding me I truly do think that.  And that alone is probably why you should trust me.

You're right about one thing...this is the Source's gambit.  Shrug.  I just take marching orders.

Is that a good enough excuse for you?

Cy

If the world had 1000 more Cy's, in 20 years we'd all be better off.
 
Keep it up!  You speak what most everyone hopes for, but are too shy to say....or to express it as eloquently as you. You are so gifted, Cy.  May you always be free to let your light shine.
 
 
.

Jake,

Thanks for catching us up with your thoughts.  And, yes, we do think alike on many topics, me just being somewhat more optimistic concerning human potential.  

Where we may differ most speifically is on the identity of the Antichrist.  I consider this to be more like the Anti-truth of scientific materialism.  

False peace in the mideast.......?  I have not pondered upon this.  In general, I believe that most of us would rightly prefer a cold peace to a hot war.  There can be no lasting world peace until the MoAPS - 4M/K/SoT/X2, i.e. the advent of the Earthly/Millennial Kingdom.  

Armageddon, though, is off the table.  

I see no flaw in Creation beyond the necessity of our temporary, ego-derived free-wills.  How can free-will be a flaw?  It is simply our pearl of great price, set aginst every force of nature.  


Down south last night, Ron is not budging.  He remains resistant to any change in the status quo.  

Their S. African drone safari went well, and the WCUAVC may be just in time to save the Rhino in the Kruger park...... http://www.wcuavc.com/ .  1,000/7,000 remaining rhinos have been poached this year.  Impovrished Mozambique youths can earn $100's for a single night's foray into the Kruger.  Persistant deadly force is the only short-term fix.  

Otherwise, he is not admitting that we face a crisis.  I have never meant to imply that he was a decider wrt disclosure, but only that he does reflect to me the prevailing sense amongst the insiders.  Well, they might be more concerned in private, but are not prepared to project that concern on the outside.  

Nonetheless, he will allow the Princess to play nice with me vis a vis the saving of Kashmir and the world.  We are reviewing our respective histories, up to the point of the R&D show.  How much of that latter portion will be aired is another matter.  

Tomorrow LotP will broadcast on WolfSpirit radio at the usual time.  It will be a review of their S. African trip.  

LotP is still, by design, I'm sure, my best shot to impinge upon the status quo.  To what extent the princess may actually be a wildcard in this operation is just part of the fog of war.  Switch&Bait?  


In the meantime I should start my review of Craig Dilworth's 'Simplicity'. Rather pricey even on Kindle. Craig is arriving tomorrow for six nights. I'm thinking about trying to combine his efforts with those of Paul Z. It would be a stretch, and Craig is even less gregarious than Paul. Besides the princess, the physics option is the only other possible opening for the BPWH.




(cont.)

dan wrote:Jake,

Thanks for catching us up with your thoughts.  And, yes, we do think alike on many topics, me just being somewhat more optimistic concerning human potential.  

This is surprising statement, Dan.   I don't really understand how you could feel more optimistic about human potential than myself.
 
The pillars of your overall message is to promote and indoctrinate the world into believing that this is the end of progress for humanity.  And that the majority of humankind is on the verge of depopulation on an unprecedented massive scale.  You promote that there is little cause to research and develop inventive solutions toward man's advancement, and resolutions to our problems and restrictions.  You virtually insist that man is not capable of overcoming what is before us.
 
And so it would appear we have a completely different definition of 'optimism of human potential'.  Further, you don't even believe in life after death.  But rather letting God keep you in his dreams, while you and everyone else are obliterated.
 
I have had great difficulty seeing any optimism to your philosophy.  And just when I see some glimmer, you make a post that wipes out the thought as mistaken enthusiasm on my part.  Just like you done again below...
 
Oh well.
 

Where we may differ most specifically is on the identity of the Antichrist.  I consider this to be more like the Anti-truth of scientific materialism.  

That approach is much too simplistic.  Even the Biblical Satan, knows scientific materialism to be a form of Anti-Christ.  In fact the Biblical Anti-Christ will apparently propagate exactly that.
 
BTW, in your PBWH the Logos is Christ, right?  And what did the Logos do?  Through the Logos all things came to be (materialsim).  So in your logic, the Logos is also a form of the Anti-Christ.
 
See what I mean by simplistic?  The logic falls apart.  It's not satisfying the coherent theory of truth (CToT).  To say scientific materialism is the Anti-Christ is similar to saying death is the Anti-Christ.
 
There is truth in both concepts, but only at a simplistic symbolic level of understanding.  Neither is satisfactory.
 
The Anti-Christ;
1)  Impersonates Christ.
2)  Replaces his Gospel with a counterfeit Gospel.
3)  Forces adherence upon the world through Military and Political might.
4)  Threatens and carries out mass murder, justifying it as for the benefit of the whole.
 
Scientific materialism is a pipsqueak in comparison to the Anti-Christ.
 

False peace in the mideast.......?  I have not pondered upon this.  In general, I believe that most of us would rightly prefer a cold peace to a hot war.  There can be no lasting world peace until the MoAPS - 4M/K/SoT/X2, i.e. the advent of the Earthly/Millennial Kingdom.

But this contradicts your previous post that The Berlin Wall and 9/11 were holds.  So what was 9/11?  A cold peace or a hot war?  I'm not understanding your first point.  Religious Peace in the East, is really no different than "Tear Down this Wall", in Berlin.  
 
They both cause a dialog that can remove "Holds".  And they are both temporary.  America has no obvious intention in removing tensions between them and Russia.  Just like the Jews would have no intention removing tensions between them and Christians.  The Jews are certain Christians are wrong, just as Americans are certain Russians are wrong.
 
So it doesn't matter that the Peace move is only a Political move.   What matters is the dialog. Yes?  That is what 9/11 was about, so you have said.
 
Now Prophecy is quite insistent that such an "Olive Branch" shall be extended, received, ratified and publicly announced with fan-fare.  These are in the same prophecies that predicted 1948.  My point is that they should be listened to and given consideration.  Seriously!  As it IS being taken serious by numerous powerful factions.  Remember, more prophecies have been fulfilled, then what are left to be fulfilled.  And many eyes are watching.
 

Armageddon, though, is off the table.  

Cy made a comment about this someplace on her blog or perhaps yours here.  And I too have been seeing an increase in this hope being repeated with much assurance and confidence.  
 
Several people who maintain contacts with insiders are saying Armageddon (or more often referred to as WW3) has been defeated.  Those who wanted it, have lost their chance.  Have lost their power to carry it out.  Or have been removed from their power to influence it.
 
It's also been recently said by the high level World Bank Lawyer, turned Whistleblower (can't remember her name off hand).  She is even getting high level MSN exposure.  Interviews on National Television in various countries.
 
The very fact that this is being said by numerous people who report to have insider contacts, suggests to me that the this is coming from the insiders.  It is THEIR Headline.  As in, MAKE the Headlines, don't believe them.
 
Now don't get me wrong here, as I believe that I was the first one of this forum to declare that its been called off.  I wrote - postponed for another generation until the Boomers are all in wheelchairs or gone.
 
Yet while entertaining that this might be a ruse seeded by the PtB themselves, I do see clear signs that it is becoming increasingly Politically difficult to effectively launch a WW3.
 
So for the time being, I'm back to sitting on the fense......expecting either way.
 

I see no flaw in Creation beyond the necessity of our temporary, ego-derived free-wills.  How can free-will be a flaw?  It is simply our pearl of great price, set against every force of nature.  

I have become occupied of late as to how little free-will we actually have.  Simply being a warm blooded mammal removes a great deal of free-will.  We are surely encased in a matrix imparting an exorbitant amount of laws and other restrictions, that we have little choice but to adhere to.
 
However I do agree that what little free-will we do have, it is a pearl of great price.
 
However when I ponder my Fathers House, I see a great number of flaws in our creation and our Beautiful Blue Dot.  Yet until that day, I can also enjoy the flaws, merely because I can partake of them.  Worms and all.
 
 
 
.

Jake Reason wrote:
 
I felt John's closing comment to be the most insightful of the two regarding the entire UFO Subject and our earthly approach to it.... he said, "I don't think we are asking the right questions."
 

Mirror comment ATS

Jake,

Bless you for helping maintain the semblance of a dialog on these pages.  What you express are likely to be the confusions harbored by those with much less exposure to the BPWH than yourself.  You present me, periodically, with the opportunity to set the record straight…

1.)  Anti-progress.........  Yes, this is likely to be the greatest source of confusion…

Rather, according to the BPWH, there is an optimal, finite amount of progress that has been 'programmed' into Creation.  The notion of perpetual progress is only used by materialists as an idol to distract us from the spiritual nature of our mission into this 'wilderness'.  

Material progress was only ever intended as part of the cosmic Bait&Switch strategy intended for our ultimate and imminent salvation.  

When I last checked with you, you were suggesting that we be vouchsafed another millennium of material progress before the X2 event and the advent of God's Millennial kingdom, yielding a total of 2,000 years.  

I was then suggesting that your 2,000 years be compressed into 200 years, prior to the Ω/Rapture event.  But since then I have learned that we have been vouchsafed a considerable Thorium energy cushion......

There is as much energy available from our accessible uranium deposits as there is from our remaining fossil fuel deposits.  Furthermore, there is about four times as much available thorium as there is uranium.  

With this in mind, and with continued development of alternate energy sources, we could comfortably postpone the Ω/R event for another thousand years, bringing the BPWH more into alignment with your timeline, provided that our population explosion continues to be abated.  

But here is my main caveat, Jake........

Humanity remains poised on the brink of its (self-)destruction, through any number of possible calamities, be they technological, political, biological or what have you.  The risk factors will continue to increase as the per-capita resources continue to be depleted.  

As these resources dwindle, the populations most as risk are those already impoverished.  We are facing an imminent decline in global welfare.  It will take either a technological or a spiritual miracle to turn this situation around.  

What is your preference?  

Let's make this choice quite specific, Jake........

1.)  A technological breakthrough in contolled fusion, or.....

2.)  The Second Coming.  

3.)  #1 & #2!  

What is your preference… #1, 2 or 3?  


Ok, almost everyone would vote for #3, especially if we expanded #2 (= X2) to include 4M/K/SoT.  Yes?  

With #3 in place, we could then expand God's Millennial Kingdom to comfortably include more than 10 billion of us, and extend it for more than the nominal 1,000 years.  

So far so good?  

I'll even throw in other forms of technological progress, in order to spice the deal.  

But, then there would have to be an additional caveat concerning the ETH, or, more specifically concerning the crucial Small World Hypothesis (SWH) aspect of the BPWH......

4.)  SWH is correct...... we live in a Christocentric/Anthropocentric/Geocentric Creation… so the ETH is false and the UTH is true.  

5.)  SWH is incorrect, and, so, the ETH may either be a.) true or b.) false, depending on the uniqueness of the Earth.  


12:45---------

With #5b & FTL starships, we could look forward to another billion years of being fruitful and multiplying.

With option #5a, we would be mixing and mingling with other races with their own cosmic agendas.


Now I'm heading out for the LotP show............

Hi Dan,
Before I respond to our chat here, I wanted to point out that this plug here below is rather disturbing.  I hope you would consider editing it out of your post.
 

dan wrote:....

Their S. African drone safari went well, and the WCUAVC may be just in time to save the Rhino in the Kruger park...... http://www.wcuavc.com/ .  1,000/7,000 remaining rhinos have been poached this year.  Impoverished Mozambique youths can earn $100's for a single night's foray into the Kruger.  Persistent deadly force is the only short-term fix.  
>
Tomorrow LotP will broadcast on WolfSpirit radio at the usual time.  It will be a review of their S. African trip.  

 
 
The planning, outfitting and orchestrating of Child Assassination is against the laws of the most countries, the Geneva Convention and the country that hosts the server of this forum, last I understood.
 
I'm not sure about Mozambique.  I know it is general knowledge that Gov't authorized child assassination is tolerated without penalty by Police and Military authorities in the Congo.  If it is also permitted in Mozambique then I guess I have no say in passing judgment in that regard.
 
But I am concerned that you may be violating certain laws with respect to our Countries (US and Canada) in promoting these types of corporate organizational plans and mission statements.  I also see that you are publishing the corporate website which includes pictures and names of the directors of this organization.  By doing so you may be putting them in grave danger in the advent that any Mozambique family should want to seek revenge against the murder of one of their children.
 
Please reconsider what you are promoting and posting here, and edit your posts accordingly. 

On a personal note, while I am deeply saddened by the potential extinction of Rhinoceros, assassination of innocent children who are near starving to death, can not be the correct humanitarian approach.
 
I did see the word "Education" being used in that website.  I would have hoped that Humans would wish to lean toward investing and developing Education Initiatives as a deterrent to animal poaching, rather than by Assassination by some Military Grunt sitting at a desk with a joy stick and trigger.
 
But then, it's entirely obvious this has nothing to do with saving Rhinos.  It's all about profit, power, control and manipulation of Africa.
 
Now, I do understand that the African jungle bunnies need a different form of management in order to eventually become a functioning civilization.  But there are much better ways than by Drones operated by cold-blooded murderers, with smiling faces eating popcorn.
 
 
 
 
There, now that feels better to get that off my chest.  I've been quite disturbed since yesterday over your cold posting, dished up as if it be a charitable humanitarian work.

MD02 wrote:

Jake Reason wrote:
 
I felt John's closing comment to be the most insightful of the two regarding the entire UFO Subject and our earthly approach to it.... he said, "I don't think we are asking the right questions."
 

Mirror comment ATS

Interesting, thanks MD.

I'm sure you caught the date the blogging began....curiousness?

Didn't most everyone believe JA was the darkest of birds? Changing public feathers? Green Berets/Red Berets live right down a firebrake or two, unless that has changed over the passage of time.

Still, I'll watch.... Through the ads of course....

RP2STICKS: GRINNING

Spelling edit.

Jake,

Your points are well taken, and I will bring them up with the management of Al Kareem.  

You must also understand that there is a great frustration with the total disregard wrt the impending extinction of one of the last remaining of the wild megafauna.  

It is known to us that the Gates foundation has contributed > $100 million to the WWF.  Eliminating the S. Korean market is a step in the right direction.  Going after China and Vietnam will take many more years.  These are years that the Rhinos do not have.  

Is a human life worth less than the life of a Rhino?  What would a Christian or a Muslim say about that?  In many parts of the world, human lives are virtually worthless, on the open market.  This is the end product of millennia of spiritual disregard for the evident evils of excess procreation.  

Nonetheless, no child or Rhino is born without a reason, and we are about to discover the respective reasons.  That is my job, Jake, and sometimes you are less than helpful, in that regard.  


I now need to prepare for a meet-up with Craig, later today.  This entails my continued review of his 'Simplicity'.  Our telling point of difference lies in his deliberate rejection of Leibniz' II.  This is what I now investigate.........

The reason for our difference wrt the II, lies in our divergent takes on the 'episteme'.  Craig takes a narrow, historical view of the episteme.  I take the most generous, cosmic/eternal, unbounded view of the episteme, wherein, on any idealist PoV, there can be no distinction between the Episteme, the Ontos and the Logos, all of which is covered by the Agapos and the Apokatastasis.  

Yes, I am a radical monist/holist.  All else is smoke and mirrors.  How then may we assign value to human lives?  Well, it starts with the reciprocity between the micro- and macro- cosms.  Ultimately there can be no distinction.  Every one of us contains the Monad, in its entirety.  

What about the rhinos and the stinkbugs?  What do they contain?  Each contains the entire ecosystem, sans humanity.  Therein are they, individually, radically less real than are you or me. You and I have absolute potential. Such is not the case with our feathered friends. What potential they may have is predicated upon us.




(cont.)

Jake Reason wrote:Hi Dan,
Before I respond to our chat here, I wanted to point out that this plug here below is rather disturbing.  I hope you would consider editing it out of your post.
 

dan wrote:....

Their S. African drone safari went well, and the WCUAVC may be just in time to save the Rhino in the Kruger park...... http://www.wcuavc.com/ .  1,000/7,000 remaining rhinos have been poached this year.  Impoverished Mozambique youths can earn $100's for a single night's foray into the Kruger.  Persistent deadly force is the only short-term fix.  
>
Tomorrow LotP will broadcast on WolfSpirit radio at the usual time.  It will be a review of their S. African trip.  

 
 
The planning, outfitting and orchestrating of Child Assassination is against the laws of the most countries, the Geneva Convention and the country that hosts the server of this forum, last I understood.
 
I'm not sure about Mozambique.  I know it is general knowledge that Gov't authorized child assassination is tolerated without penalty by Police and Military authorities in the Congo.  If it is also permitted in Mozambique then I guess I have no say in passing judgment in that regard.
 
But I am concerned that you may be violating certain laws with respect to our Countries (US and Canada) in promoting these types of corporate organizational plans and mission statements.  I also see that you are publishing the corporate website which includes pictures and names of the directors of this organization.  By doing so you may be putting them in grave danger in the advent that any Mozambique family should want to seek revenge against the murder of one of their children.
 
Please reconsider what you are promoting and posting here, and edit your posts accordingly. 

On a personal note, while I am deeply saddened by the potential extinction of Rhinoceros, assassination of innocent children who are near starving to death, can not be the correct humanitarian approach.
 
I did see the word "Education" being used in that website.  I would have hoped that Humans would wish to lean toward investing and developing Education Initiatives as a deterrent to animal poaching, rather than by Assassination by some Military Grunt sitting at a desk with a joy stick and trigger.
 
But then, it's entirely obvious this has nothing to do with saving Rhinos.  It's all about profit, power, control and manipulation of Africa.
 
Now, I do understand that the African jungle bunnies need a different form of management in order to eventually become a functioning civilization.  But there are much better ways than by Drones operated by cold-blooded murderers, with smiling faces eating popcorn.
 

- End rant -

 
 
 
There, now that feels better to get that off my chest.  I've been quite disturbed since yesterday over your cold posting, dished up as if it be a charitable humanitarian work.

Thank you for taking the lead on this Jake.  I was wondering if I was the only person who had noticed.

There is even more to this than you pointed out.  We in the patriot movement know that things like this are beta testing.  The system lords use corporations to do their dirty work beta testing certain things to establish common precedence and a "reasonable" excuse...i.e. rhino preservation.

It is a prime example of their devaluation of life.  We already know that the System is using targeted assassination of humans using drones in the Afgan & neighboring region/nation Pakistan.

Obama has claimed the right to kill American's at will overseas without warrant, court or conviction...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/9913615/Barack-Obama-has-authority-to-use-drone-strikes-to-kill-Americans-on-US-soil.html

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/22/1249581/-Living-in-a-Drone-Laboratory

These matters on the heels of threats here at home to "yard-farm" our communities of undesirables and their families come a martial law circumstance, reported to us by family members within military circles.

There is much more here that is problematic than even our personal issue with it being inappropriate for our respective nations and servers.

We within the liberty movement suffer being touted as extremists because we have protested this conduct in the past and continue to protest this ideology that mankind are vermin and a plague upon the Earth to be exterminated at will and spoken of with all disrespect regardless of circumstance for politics having a higher value than individual and collective rights.

Hear well the related silence of the genocide occurring overseas by our System's sanctioned "rebels" who pull Christians from their homes and expel, murder, and commit mayhem that whole nations may be destabilized for the benefit of high placed white collar criminals poised to benefit in diametrically opposed nations.  

The NDAA is in this same family of activities that designates citizens as potential enemy combatants and enables the use of rendition.

But these things are unstoppable when government does it.  And as we all know excrement rolls downhill and others join the fray following suit....

Which is the Pandolfi effort?  Is it beta-testing for eventual yard-farming in America, Canada, and Mexico?  Or is it just little guys following suit...if it is ok for Obama and Company to use drones to assassinate in Pakistan and Afganistan, then surely there is no legal issue for them to do it in Mozambique!  After all human life is over-populated according to them and of less value than earthworm fodder which of course they intend to manufacture with scientific reason-ability, just ask Dan's buddy John. 

But the Princess is such a sweet person with a tremendous destiny says Dan and Ron.  Cough Cough.  

Fine words butter no parsnips.


But thank you Jake.  Spot on.

Cy


Edit to add on this one:  I'm not just yelling foul...I'm yelling crimes against humanity.  Its a huge organization that makes the Nazis look like an easter parade....but oh wait!  if you look deep enough you will indeed find the descendants of the Nazi International...in bed with Fabian Socialists.  From the Bell to Eisenhower's warning, to the DUMBs, repeated attempts at thefts of on base nukes, to depopulation theory/population stabilization, to the development and use of drones to conduct warfare, to full redistribution of wealth, to yard-farming/gun control/confiscation and ultimate eradication of all constitutional restrictions.  From control of education to control of media to control of monetary and foreign policy to build a controlled global governance not by the People of the World or For the People of the World.

Yes huge indeed.

Jake and Cy,

It would seem that you are advocating the assassination of certain individuals associated with Al Kareem, which number might well include myself.

Deadly force is tolerated in instances of self-defense. If we have one poacher targetting the last Rhino pair, would it not be advisable to target that poacher, in the face of such an irredeemable loss?

Self-sanctification wrt such fraught issues is suspect, to say the least.

As to the US's role wrt to maintaining global security and targeting mass murderers in the pursuit thereof, it is not a matter that lends itself well to ideological grandstanding.

Nonetheless, I will defend your right to espouse silly ideas.



(cont.)

dan wrote:Jake and Cy,

It would seem that you are advocating the assassination of certain individuals associated with Al Kareem, which number might well include myself.  

That's just plain silly, Dan.  Such is unthinkable for me.  But its not for many people, Especially in that part of the world.  Your posting of the primary use of the Drones was irresponsible, plain and simple.  And dangerous too! - thus why I pointed this out.  The organization has obviously and with purpose, specifically chosen NOT to explain how the drones would be used.
 
Publish that the drones will alert Forest Rangers.  Or use tranquilizer darts, or carry a loud speaker warning them to cease and desist.  But blatantly stating they will use deadly force as there is no other option.  And informing that the targets are most likely to be impoverished children!?
 
Get ahold of yourself!
 

Deadly force is tolerated in instances of self-defense.  If we have one poacher targeting the last Rhino pair, would it not be advisable to target that poacher, in the face of such an irredeemable loss?  

Doesn't this question need to specify who that person is?  What if were Aliyah gunning down the rhino to save her child from being stampeded?
 
That's enough for this post.  Now I'll return to your original reply to this issue.
 
Thank you Cy
 
 
 
.

dan wrote:Jake and Cy,

It would seem that you are advocating the assassination of certain individuals associated with Al Kareem, which number might well include myself.  

Deadly force is tolerated in instances of self-defense.  If we have one poacher targetting the last Rhino pair, would it not be advisable to target that poacher, in the face of such an irredeemable loss?  

Self-sanctification wrt such fraught issues is suspect, to say the least.  

As to the US's role wrt to maintaining global security and targeting mass murderers in the pursuit thereof, it is not a matter that lends itself well to ideological grandstanding.  

Nonetheless, I will defend your right to espouse silly ideas.  



(cont.)  

Wholly incorrect Dan.  Reread what I wrote.  We accused you and the Pandolfi family/company of advocating assassination and violation of international laws.

Cy wrote:Edit to add on this one:  

I'm not just yelling foul...I'm yelling crimes against humanity.  

Its a huge organization that makes the Nazis look like an easter parade....but oh wait!  if you look deep enough you will indeed find the descendants of the Nazi International...in bed with Fabian Socialists.  

From the Bell to Eisenhower's warning, to the DUMBs, repeated attempts at thefts of on base nukes, to depopulation theory/population stabilization, to the development and use of drones to conduct warfare, to full redistribution of wealth, to yard-farming/gun control/confiscation and ultimate eradication of all constitutional restrictions.  From control of education to control of media to control of monetary and foreign policy to build a controlled global governance not by the People of the World or For the People of the World.

Yes huge indeed.

*

I spoke with someone recently who was asked by someone else what was his occupation in the mil.  His answer was effectively none - meaning unacknowledged.  He reiterated what I had heard from a half dozen other sources, that before this is all said and done "they" meaning the ones at the top of the dung heap calling the shots fully intend to create and set in motion an event so globally huge as to dwarf all other horrific acts.

This Jake and I have pointed out is just the tip of the iceberg in other words.  But where does one begin in tracking the beast and its hydratic tendrils if you are a layman?

Salute!

Cy

cc. Elias Alias OathKeepers

dan wrote:Jake,

Your points are well taken, and I will bring them up with the management of Al Kareem.  

Thank you. Hopefully you'll receive a reprimand. Even 10k sponsors can make mistakes. And this one was a doozy.

(Sponser info published on the website.)

You must also understand that there is a great frustration with the total disregard wrt the impending extinction of one of the last remaining of the wild megafauna.  

I most certainly do understand.

It is known to us that the Gates foundation has contributed > $100 million to the WWF.  Eliminating the S. Korean market is a step in the right direction.  Going after China and Vietnam will take many more years.  These are years that the Rhinos do not have.

Yes, I mentioned these in my follow-on post. You must have read it before I deleted it after I realized a continued rant was redundant.

So yes, "Education" does in fact work. We have proof of it now. The techniques of societal psychological programming is a well developed science. And one of the men who was responsible for the S.Korea success believes they can do the same for Vietnam.

My point - there are Educational options. And they are also more persuasive and targeted non-lethal options, but that is another subject all together. Interesting that John Alexander oddly came up during conversation. I hadn't expect we would be talking about child assassination by aerial drones.

Is a human life worth less than the life of a Rhino?  What would a Christian or a Muslim say about that?  In many parts of the world, human lives are virtually worthless, on the open market.  This is the end product of millennia of spiritual disregard for the evident evils of excess procreation.  

Yes, I too have spent many hours over this human saga. You're absolutely right about "worthless". I saw it in Morocco.

Which leads me to say - I don't know what a Muslim would say. I guess it depends upon which one. I have read satanic verses in their Koran that teach the beheading of non-believers merely for not believing. And it is considered the rule of Allah - Divine Law to many Muslims.

As a Christian however, I know that true Christians can not endorse such behavior. Christian scripture teaches the methods of thinking and education to teach and lead people toward increasing their moral awareness and responsibility to humanity and nature.

A Christian would say no lethal force should be used, regardless of any circumstance. Once that was an accepted policy, the minds involved in dealing with the matter would automatically create and develop non-lethal tactics that would be equally as effective (and even better in the long run), than stopping the act of poaching through deadly force.

Nonetheless, no child or Rhino is born without a reason, and we are about to discover the respective reasons.  That is my job, Jake, and sometimes you are less than helpful, in that regard.  

I am only saying what millions of others will also say, if they find out. And Heck, many wouldn't be near as kind as I am about it.

Just ask Bill Gates.