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Where did all the Open Minds Forum members go?

Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:29 pm by Admin

With Open Minds Forum restored now for almost half a year at it's new location with forumotion.com we can now turn to look at reaching out to OMF's original members who have not yet returned home. OMF's original membership was over 6,000 members strong, prior to the proboards suspension, according to the rolls of the time. We can probably safely assume that some of those accounts were unidentified socks. If we were to assume a reasonable guess of maybe as many as 30% possible sock accounts then that would leave potentially somewhere between 4800 to 4900 possible real members to locate. That is still a substantial number of people.

Who were all these people? Some were average individuals with common interests in ufology, exopolitics, globalism, corruption, earthchanges, science and technology, and a variety of other interests. Some just enjoyed being part of a vibrant and unusually interesting community. Others were representative of various insider groups participating in observation and outreach projects, while still others were bonafide intelligence community personnel. All with stake in the hunt for truth in one fashion or another. Some in support of truth, and communication. Others seeking real disclosure and forms of proof. And others highly skeptical of anything or limited subjects. The smallest division of membership being wholly anti-disclosure oriented.

So where did these members vanish to? They had many options. There are almost innumerable other forums out there on the topics of UFO's or Exopolitics, the Unexplained, and Conspiracy Theory. Did they disappear into the world-wide network of forum inhabitants? Did some go find new homes on chatrooms or individual blogs? Did they participate in ufo conventions or other public events and gatherings? How about those who represented groups in special access? Or IC and military observers? Those with academic affiliations? Where did they all go and what would be the best way to reach out and extend an invitation to return?

And what constitutes a situation deserving of their time and participation? Is the archive enough? How exactly do people within the paradigm most desire to define a community? Is it amenities, humanity or simply population size for exposure? Most of the special guests have been emailed and have expressed that population size for exposure is what most motivates them. But not all. Long-time member Dan Smith has other priorities and values motivating his participation. Should this open opportunities for unattached junior guests who have experience and dialog to contribute to the world? How best to make use of OMF's time, experience and resources?

Many skeptics would like to see the historical guardian of discourse opportunity to just up and disappear; go into permanent stasis. They think that not everyone has a right to speak about their experiences and if there is no proof involved then there can philosophically be no value to discourse. I personally would respectfully disagree with them. Discourse has always been the prelude to meaningful relationships and meaningful mutual relationships have always been the prelude to exchanges of proof. In a contentious social environment with regards to communication vs disclosure how do we best re-establish a haven for those preludes? Is it only the "if we build it they will come" answer? Well considering OMF has been largely fully functional over the last four or five months this line of reasoning is not necessarily true. So what would be the best way re-establish this? Your suggestions are sought. Please comment.





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Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

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Jay09784691
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Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by Jay09784691 on Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:20 am

I wanted to create a thread about philosophical idealism, where people can discuss openly the idea that mind is fundamental. There's no real need to break down the various interpretations of idealism (classical, subjective, transcendental, objective, etc.), as they're covered in Wikipedia and various other websites and books fairly considerably.

I'd rather the discussion didn't turn into an argument as to whether the theory is true, but instead considered it a potential truth (even though it's unproven for now) in order to consider the various possibilities of psychic and physical phenomena that are apparently interacting/influencing our day-to-day existance.

I understand that this forum is a place where people can discuss all manner of phenomena, so I thought (with assistance from @cwalla7 from Twitter) that this would be a good place to start the conversation. I believe that idealism could go some way to covering and explaining all of the aforementioned phenomena. It's also worth noting that the AATIP group that was present at The Pentagon in the US and for some time managed by Luiz Elizondo (now of Tom Delonge's To The Stars Academy) believed, and I quote, "what was once considered phenomena is now quantum physics". Now it's not clear that they're referring to the possibility of idealism, but it certainly could be an potential outcome.

I don't think it's worth getting lost in the semantics of idealism, or anyone's interpretation of it, but let's rather consider what the impact on the world and perception would be if it were a truth.

I personally (in a manner of speaking) believe that if such a thing were true, it would change absolutely everything we understand about ourselves and our reality. We would need to accept non-duality; so the difference between you and I were subjective rather than objective and could eventually become accepted objective truth. Also, psychic phenomena would be explained because everything would be comprised by, or influenced by mind and all minds being connected. Maybe even "UFOs" could be explained as consciousness that's not "trapped" or obscured by matter/body.

So, do you feel that this philosophic view could explain anything mentioned above or anything other that's unexplained?


Last edited by Jay09784691 on Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:34 am; edited 1 time in total

Jay09784691
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Re: Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by Jay09784691 on Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:33 am

Here's the relating AATIP image for anyone that's interested.
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99
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Re: Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by 99 on Wed Aug 29, 2018 6:54 am



Fascinating essay Jay! Thanks for dropping by.
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Re: Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by 99 on Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:33 am

ATTIP wiki page wrote:The Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program (AATIP)[1] was a secret investigatory effort funded by the United States Government to study unidentified flying objects, but it was not classified. The program was first made public on December 16, 2017. The program began in 2007, with funding of $22 million over the five years until the available appropriations were ended in 2012.[2][3][4]The program began in the U.S. Defense Intelligence Agency.[5] Although the official AATIP program has ended, a related group of interested professionals have extended the effort, founding a nonprofit organization called "To The Stars Academy of Arts & Science".[6][7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Aviation_Threat_Identification_Program
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Re: Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by 99 on Wed Aug 29, 2018 7:53 am

Many say that Fortean phenomena of any sort is just science that hasn't been discovered yet. 

But here's a question that's addressed in Jay's comment here... Is the UFO phenomenon and everything related to it a reflection and manifestation of the collective subconscious mind of all sentient life on this planet?

cwallatruth
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Re: Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by cwallatruth on Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:06 am

99 wrote:Many say that Fortean phenomena of any sort is just science that hasn't been discovered yet. 

But here's a question that's addressed in Jay's comment here... Is the UFO phenomenon and everything related to it a reflection and manifestation of the collective subconscious mind of all sentient life on this planet?

99,
Given your tenure on this forum, you are probably more familiar with Dan's BPWH than many of us. WWDS (what would Dan say) in response here? Also, will Dan participate on this thread?

Jay,
Dan Smith has created a best possible world hypothesis (BPWH), or better yet... has extended this concept that originated from Gottfried Leibniz, and references that as a basis for his UFO disclosure efforts on this site. Its connection to disclosure and his related discussions on this forum are beyond cryptic, but the more motivated minds, like yours, we get involved, the more momentum we can potentially create collectively. It's quite a long read, but would be interested in your opinions.

Leibniz background:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_of_all_possible_worlds

Dan's hypothesis:
http://www.bestpossibleworld.com/




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Re: Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by 99 on Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:33 am

Thanks for posting that information cwallatruth... and Dan's links. It would be beneficial for Jay to read over Dan's website especially if he plans on participating in any conversations with Dan in his blog. 

I also wanted to mention that for the subforums, like this one (the paranormal subforum) and all of the other ones here outside of Dan's subforum and threads, one can present their own personal viewpoints on any of those topics regardless that one's POV on them is different than the paradigm that Dan is operating in... which is the Best Possible World Hypothesis.

So if, for example, someone leans more toward the Nuts and Bolts viewpoint of the UFO phenomenon, they can start up discussions here that are framed within that context in any of the other subforums here that are outside of Dan's section of the forum.


Last edited by 99 on Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:47 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by Jay09784691 on Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:36 am

I asked a question of Twitter a while back, something to the effect of; if a computer were to become conscious, how would it determine its own existence?

I didn't use it as a way of expressing my belief in simulation theory, as I believe that theory is wrong. I used it as an analogy of explaining our reality. Ours is way more complex than that of a computer, especially considering the multiverse. I see the computer as our creation, not our creator. It's a step lower than our own existence.

But maybe we're (as a collective) beginning to understand more of our own existence and we were required to fractionalise in order to determine each part a little better. I realise it sounds utterly bonkers, but if idealism were true, this may be an outcome of that theory.

If non-duality were a thing and we're all connected, then when-and-where do we make that separation and do we eventually become part of one phenomenon. The crossover between the occult (all is mind), quantum physics (significance of the observer effect), and non-duality (we're all "one") may be worth investigating further.
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Re: Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by dan on Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:36 am

Hello, Jay,

Thanks for posting.  It would be helpful to have a separate section and thread devoted just to the issues of idealism/immaterialism.  My own attempts toward that end have not been successful.  

I’ll be getting back to Baltimore later today, and hope to be able to devote more attention to the forum, at that point.

My devotion to immaterialism goes back to 1981.  I have used various websites to that end.  This second version of OMF is owned by Cyrellys and managed by 99.  

My intellectual pursuit of immaterialism has been diluted by my association with Footmann, who is alleged to be an officer of an intelligence agency.  His exact status remains obscure...... certainly to me, at least.  

A personal timeline is located here..... http://www.bestpossibleworld.com/nexu66.htm#timeline . This earlier site also contains a topical index page..... http://www.bestpossibleworld.com/index06.htm that might prove useful.  

Post no. 5 on this thread http://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t313-three-in-one might also prove useful for orientation, if you should be curious.  

You will notice, Jay, that the notion of an Eschaton is an essential feature of my BPWH, however, allow me to hasten to quote my goddaughter........ seriously, gogo, the world is not going to end.  

I would point out that, from certain perspectives, it might be appearing to do so, however.  Suffice it to say that, in this modern era, the world has managed to conform itself rather closely to the vision of scientific materialism.  A truly postmodern world may be capable of taking on a less rigid appearance.  

The ouroboric notion of a closed timelike curve (CTC) might also prove useful.  

But I’m fairly sure that you’ll conclude that the mind wags the quantum, and not the other way around, as my friend, Jack S, believes, for instance.  

.


Last edited by dan on Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:44 am; edited 2 times in total

Jay09784691
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Re: Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by Jay09784691 on Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:39 am

Thanks for the introduction.

It seems to me that we're not fully understanding the world around us, our bodily selves appear to be present in an environment that's comprised of three spacial dimensions and a temporal dimension(s). Our consciousness itself appears to be present within different parameters and cannot accurately be measured within the spacial. Obviously we can have MRI scan and these can measure the activity/shape of the brain, but it really tells us nothing of the consciousness of any participants.

Our consciousness exists within dimensions not fully understood. If we were able to better define the mind parameters, it's then possible that we could start to understand and better perceive our environment. It could be an evolution of our species.

The mind appears to also have capacities beyond what's traditionally expected of it.
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Re: Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by dan on Thu Aug 30, 2018 4:51 am

I understand, Jay, you are currently trapped in the frame of dualistic thought.

I was similarly trapped for the first five years of my post-Sophia life, from 1977 to 1981. You, too, Jay, will be able to transcend your Cartesian Dualism..... hopefully within a shorter time frame.

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Re: Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by Jay09784691 on Thu Aug 30, 2018 5:26 am

I don't mean to be rude, but I'd prefer for this thread not to be hijacked to subjects well documented in other areas of this forum.

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Re: Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by Jay09784691 on Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:37 am

Can a mod please delete this thread? It was a mistake to post here. My account can also be deleted.

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Re: Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by cwallatruth on Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:09 am

dan wrote:I understand, Jay, you are currently trapped in the frame of dualistic thought.  

I was similarly trapped for the first five years of my post-Sophia life, from 1977 to 1981.  You, too, Jay, will be able to transcend your Cartesian Dualism..... hopefully within a shorter time frame.  

Dan,
Can you describe your methods, means, and experiences of your transcendence? I think Jay's point is that most humans don't have that 100% connection between mind and body that reveals the very nature of where mind truly exists (potentially in some consciousness ether, where perhaps ETs easily move in and out of). However, his desire to discuss how to either measure it or understand why we experience them separately, our conscious/material world, does not necessarily mean he is a dualist.

Jay09784691 wrote:
then when-and-where do we make that separation and do we eventually become part of one phenomenon

Our consciousness exists within dimensions not fully understood. If we were able to better define the mind parameters, it's then possible that we could start to understand and better perceive our environment.

I don't mean to speak for Jay as I might be misinterpreting, but if we all lived with a constant psilocybin drip or were all monks meditating 18 hours per day in the Himalayas then perhaps we wouldn't be having this conversation. So can you describe what your journey was that allowed you to transcend the notion of a separateness, even though that is every human’s natural experience? If your answer is “logic”, that doesn’t then address the notion or question of a way to measure or more clearly understand, in some way, the perceived or illusory difference between mind and body.

Thanks
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Re: Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by GrandCru on Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:14 pm

Jay09784691 wrote:Can a mod please delete this thread? It was a mistake to post here. My account can also be deleted.

Jay-Great post! I would love to see more of your thoughts here. Please don't leave.

Just ignore Dan; he used to be somewhat coherent in is diatribe of disinformation, but now his posts have become so transparent in their attempt to just muddy the waters.

I would also ignore any private messages you get since recently I was sent some dick pics by a member(no pun intended) which I laughed royally at(username SlimShady)

These explicit pictures are some sort of attempt to keep you and others off this forum; persevere and laugh at how simple minded our foes are! haha.
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Re: Philosophical Idealism: Mind is Fundamental

Post by dan on Fri Aug 31, 2018 6:48 am

Jay,

Please don’t leave.  

If your desire is to discuss anomalous phenomena from the point of view of idealism/immaterialism, perhaps there would be less confusion if the title were more specific, in that regard.

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