Hello, Cy, hello, OMF II

First topic message reminder :

Testing.......

Yes, it is working.

Congratulations to Cyrellys & Co.!

I will be continuing the BPWH blog from Compass Morainn, which was a continuation from the original OMF site on ProBoards, which is in the process of being re-archived from that site.



(cont.)

My prayers are with you and your family Dan but Louise' separation from all of you is only temporary because someday you will all be joyously together again in a world that's even more beautiful than that mountain backdrop seen in that photo of you and Louise!
I am taking time to get up to date on your posts here today .... and yes, it's mighty quiet here but it's summertime and more people are out and about outside these days than sitting in front of their computers during their free time. This place will start picking up once the fall season hits, I'm sure! Talk later!

99,

Things are going well, out here in Livingston. The weather has cleared up today. The cabin we are borrowing is 20' from the Yellowstone River, still in flood stage. We'll be mostly visiting with Louise's friends this week.
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For non-sapient creatures, the individuated objects are friend, foe and prey. And perhaps a nest. Otherwise, there is the shining Present. Abstract objects? By definition, no.

.

Dan,

Good that you will all be comforting each other and I'm sure her friends
will be very glad you to see and talk to you too! Being where you are now
will allow you to seek solace in the mountains and nature... so you are 20' from the Yellowstone River? Wow! Lucky you! Do take some pics ok?


linda

Linda,

Pictures will be coming out, but I will not be the one taking them.

The situation out here is quite complicated. Deborah and I are making the effort to hear the different perspectives. Life is complicated, and it wouldn't be worth it, if it weren't. We never really get to relax, but I'm the most relaxed one that I know. I hang on to the truth, whatever that may be. Knowing that if the ultimate truth were not love, that we would not be here to worry about it.

We live in interesting times. How interesting can the times get? God plays brinksmanship. Finally, there is a Brink, wherein we either fall into or out of love. No one wants to be like the little match girl, with her nose pressed against the window. But we all are that. And isn't she the one who knows more about love than those gathered inside? Life is about absence and presence. How do we navigate/negotiate the shining Presence?

Sapience Is a burden. We try to bear it lightly. There is that of God in each of us. From whence else comes our free will? The temporal God, prepares us to replace her. Then we both become the eternal God. Is there a better possible being? Do we wish we had not been born? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Can we be patient to wait for the fat lady to sing? Am I not the picture of patience? Am I not sufficiently fat? Where is MJ12 when we need them? We have met the enemy and they are us. Is it my bedtime?

.

We take pride in how many things we know, and very rightfully so. We know an amazing amount. And we can even connect the dots, and make all sorts of timelines. And, now, all of this knowledge is accessible instantly, at our fingertips. It should be mind boggling, but so quickly do we come to take everything for granted. One day it's a new marvel, and the next day it is ho-hum.

But then there are these darned philosophers......... the more we tell them, the more questions they ask. The scientists like to think that they have almost all the answers, and yet the philosophers are not so easily satisfied. They keep asking the same old questions, perhaps phrased a bit differently each time.

One thing that's pretty darned obvious is that with all of their facts and in all of their theories, there is just no need to invoke unknown powers. If we don't have all of the answers, just yet, we have the methods that will keep getting us closer to a final truth..... a final theory, the last paradigm.


10:30pm-------------

But, come hell or highwater, the scientists, qua professional scientists, have no need of THAT hypothesis........ that being God.

Here are the sticky wickets for the atheist scientists......

1.) Anthropic principle

2.) Consciousness

3.) Holism

Each one of these items ought to be a deal breaker for scientific materialism. Taken together, there ought to be no contest. Most honest folks understand that materialism is dead. The practical issue is that no one knows what comes next. Everyone is waiting for the shoe to drop...... waiting for the MoAPS. Yes, somewhat unwittingly, waiting for Godot.

But, as I will readily admit, immaterialism is a tough sell. There has not been one day in my adult life when I have not had qualms about immaterialism. I'm the most skeptical person that I know..... most skeptical as in best informed skeptic. I would have it no other way. I have always held my immaterialism at arms length. I'm no sucker. I'm no fool. But I am telling you that materialism is not the last word. It is neither the Alpha nor the Omega.

That would seem to leave us with mind..... some sort of cosmic mind. But what is this mind? Is it personal or impersonal?

That depends largely upon whether the cosmos is, quantitatively, finite or infinite. The modern mind cottons to the infinite and impersonal cosmos, wherein we are the cosmic orphans...... all dressed up, with our free-will, but no place to go.

With the finite, pre-copernican cosmos, we may go home. There may be an end to our struggle.

This is also the personal cosmos, with a personal Creator, to whom we are directly related, in the most intimate fashion. How could any such creator not be personal? With pantheism, creation is impersonal. It is all about karma, in that it is an entirely negative manifestation. Existentialists cotton to this notion..... of the impersonal and negative aspect of the cosmos.

Theists come after......

.

Another day older.......

We are building up to the climax on Sunday. What a microcosm is Livingston. If you can't find it here, you probably won't. Where else would you find Whoopi Goldberg as a neighbor of Tom Brokaw. And there was Louise. And here we are for a few more days. It will be sad to leave this behind. We can't go home again, not in this life. But we do, beyond space and time....... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Sarfatti

There may come a day when I will get an entry, but I probably won't live that long. Louise didn't.

Because immaterialism is a tough sell. If it weren't, we'd all already be there. We have saved immat. for dessert. We hope you like the taste. I do not know what to do about metabolism, as we progress to the other side. I was hoping that someone would help me out, please.

I do know the metaB is magical, in the holistic sense. Livingston is magical, especially at the solstice. And what does this have to do with OOO? Is Livingston an object? Well, in our backyard in Concord, Louise and I played Giddyup Paia. I was Paia. This is one of my earliest memories. And now on Nan's place, out Swingley Rd, you will find Skugi, the Icelandic, who was Louise's last horse. Skugi and I have something in common. What that is, I wouldn't trade it in a million years.



(cont.)

Hello Dan....


How are you?

Hi Andy,

Long time no see. Is there anything we can do for you? What's happening with you?



(cont.)

Things are good Dan...I'm busy as hell.

You know I like you....but this isn't Open Minds and will never be.

This place is cold, dark and obscure.

You can do better

I hear you, Andy, and duly noted. I'm in no hurry, just now.....

In the meantime, you take care, and please keep in touch.

There will be eleven of us going up, today, to place a marker at Louise's ranch. The weather is perfect.


Are space and time objectifiable? Well, they are quantifiable, but is that quite the same thing? Space and time are the ground of objecthood, but only in a limited sense are they objectifiable. There seem to exist many kinds of things, besides 'mere' objects. Photons and numbers are cases in point. And, without qualities, how would we experience quantities?

We have objects, maybe, but what about beings, such as persons? Do they exist? If so, in what sense?

Do holes exist? Books have been written on the ontology of holes. Out of what were space and time created? I don't have answers to these questions, but neither does science, nor does it seem likely that it will. In the meantime, perhaps scientists could afford to be a bit more modest in their truth claims, especially of those claims that purport to be fundamental.



(cont.)

Mur wrote:Things are good Dan...I'm busy as hell.

You know I like you....but this isn't Open Minds and will never be.

This place is cold, dark and obscure.

You can do better

What was once open - has become sealed. Caving, is much like you described, Mur. Still, in the depths of emptiness - great wonders can be found within the silence if you listen long and hard enough. Certainly you have experienced the constant noise in a crowded room and how insights succumb to it?

Philosophers enjoy hearing themselves think. Is Dan any different? He's never truly alone.... Bring some cheer next time, please, or at least a suggestion where he should be. Your observations do hold some validity though - to certain people.

Keep Well,

Hey Mur,
Good to see you here! Mdonnell's got a point though but the bottom line is, you're a great conversationalist when the mood suits you. Hope you stick around!

Dan,
As usual, you're freaking me out. This time round is your reference to that story called "The Little Match Girl" because I have not heard anyone ever mention that story anywhere since my dad used it as his favorite bedtime story to us back with I was a preschooler. So here you are bringing it up again and I'm absolutely amazed! Lol, I thought he made up that one but only now finding out that it must, in fact, be a well known children's story.... hmmm, interesting. Whelp, learn something new everyday and I loved your analysis of it too... so true!

Hi Dan,

I just posted an Admin announcement. A new OMF archive has been made publicly available. It is a complete working copy that can be download to your c:/drive, and works off-line, as if you were on-line.

https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t33-open-minds-forum-archive#181

Hi Mur and 99.

Mur, I agree this forum template is cold and dark looking. I also find the extremely small font size, to be less appealing to read. However it was quite a lot of work to set up in the first place. Which was kindly done by Cy's friends.

The format and style can be changed of course, as all other forum software, but that takes quite a time investment too. I'm going to try a few minor changes to warm it up a bit, and toward making it easier to read.

99 wrote:Hey Mur,
Good to see you here! Mdonnell's got a point though but the bottom line is, you're a great conversationalist when the mood suits you. Hope you stick around!

Thanks for the kind words from both you and Mdonnell.

This site is basically just Dan's thread.

There are only 12 members.

I'm thrilled the data based was restored...but this isn't OMF.

Ufocasebook is a good site, so is the new OUTpost....I like amkon for free speech, but it is not always pretty....in fact in can be down right ugly.

The Outpost has a facebook page which thrives.

Look...if you all are happy here, god bless and more power to you.

I'm not here to tell anyone what to do.

I did come here to say hello to Dan.....and to share my thoughts about his posting in relative obscurity.

All the best to all of you

Andy

Welcome home Mur. My apologies if the decor seems alittle dark right now...We didn't have any phosphorescent paint at the time. Functional was more important...color and murals are something one adds after the kinks are worked out, generally speaking...this is only the first year. I agree with you at the moment this is not a complete version of OMF...OMF was her people and there is a little problem of being able to reach her people. There is no complete list accessible at the moment of the members connected with their emails to let them know this much has been reconstructed. It is a slow process. Marketing methods will rebuild some of it eventually. Like Dan says we're not in an all-fired rush. Quality is always better than quantity and that's what I personally and striving for.

We do understand that what is accessible of our version of archives is not yet complete. It is a work in progress and is time consuming. The sheer volume is huge and it takes time to transfer....some of us have day jobs and other interuptions normal to life. It will get there eventually. Fore's contribution will help for certain. I'll have a link up to it in the top left menu soon. Between what is accessible online and what can be downloaded researchers will have enough to begin working once again. So far this new community forum has been stable and relatively easy to use both user friendly and administratively. We're working on improving visibility of menus and buttons which may get revamped once again if color schemes change to match new forum artwork. Again a work in progress....it was made available to everyone before perfection because there were people who wanted their home back and were concerned about the length of time it was taking.

As with Dan who needed a place to work. He is always welcome at CM but OMF is his traditional home. Over 30 readers per day visit his threads. And I read his work with great interest as well. This isn't a dead forum just because you don't see signed members in volume. More people read than talk.

We look forward to your conversational skills Mur. I hope you can find time to drop in occasionally at least. Let other's know the light is on. There is great freedom awaiting them here who can also keep it clean and civil...think the freedom of Amkon without the sewage.

I'm enroute to Indianapolis to spend a couple nights with my cousin Susie and her family, and then back to Baltimore.  

It was an extraordinary experience, out in Livingston, briefly connecting with  Louise's friends.  How much we missed of her life.  How she struggled to brighten others' lives, even while her own had probably more than its share of sadness and worry.  While Throop and I were visiting the tree, where we scattered her ashes and and those of mom and dad, he pointed out the hawk that was soaring along the flanks of Shell Mountain, and I knew, as surely as I have ever known anything, that it was her spirit, free at last. 
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I want to stress again how glad I am to be here with Cy and all of you.  I feel more relaxed now, off the beaten track.  I don't mind at all, just conversing with the cosmos.  A sense of urgency is always with me, but I know just as strongly that all of us are in Her hands and that we have nothing to fear.  


Connecting with the soaring hawk helps me to better appreciate the utter lack of objectivity of 'objects'.  How absolutely silly of us to have ever thought  otherwise.  When was the last time that any of us experienced a mere object?  In fact, I can't even begin to imagine what such an experienceless experience would be like.  

I had forgotten that Louise's place was just a few miles from where the horse whisperer lived.  We are all such whisperers, and are usually just too busy to notice.  

It is extraordinary to realize that quantities are supposed to be the most objective things in the world, and, yet, what the heck is a mathematician if she is not a number whisperer?  My 'buddy' Srinivasa knew that as surely as anyone.  Could he balance a checkbook?  I sincerely doubt it!  

Perhaps I am an Eschaton whisperer, just as surely as is Louise's hawk.  We all soar on the crest of that mountain wave, as we are about to discover.   And you can take that to the bank, as we descend into Chicago.  

.

The flight from Chicago to Indy was shorter than I had expected..........
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Enroute to Indianapolis........

But surely there must be something behind those experiences.  Behind the phenomena are the noumena, as Kant would say.  
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This morning I'm at cousin Suzy's......... Last evening we had dinner downtown, and did some catching up on family stuff. Always too much stuff to catch up on......
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And, Jake, thank you for the link to Fore's condensed version of the old OMF. Jake's linking post is here..... https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t33-open-minds-forum-archive#181

I take it that this is an encoded version that is accessible only off-line, and that Google will not be able to access it.

This would fit in with my pronoid conspiracy theory of Ocelot and Ferret, if any of you recall the two birds that were not birds. They are the Aviary's version of Punxatawney Phil. Every six months, Raven would venture out to Los Alamos to consult with O&F concerning the timing of the Eschaton.

I'm not sure if O&F were supposed to be humans or not. In any case, the three of them would be the Eschaton whisperers. If they still exist, then I'm their understudy. Otherwise...... well...... It's going to be a race between google and the CIA, and the websites of us eschatologists, if there are any others that remotely resembling my version of OOO/BPWH. Everyday, I leave breadcrumbs for google wrt the Eschaton. Like H&G, I await the dove that will show us to the gingerbread house in the sky.

Before getting back to OOO, let me post a link from Gary.......

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/culturelab/2012/06/is-there-an-explanation-for-existence.html

And from they NYT........

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/26/technology/in-a-big-network-of-computers-evidence-of-machine-learning.html?_r=1&hp

These both present ontological issues, par excellence...... but it's time for me to rise and shine....

Let me quickly leave a couple more breadcrumbs.......

The only alternative to oncology wrt Earth/humanity is going to be the ontology of the Chrysalis.

And in relation to yesterday's post, Kant's Noumenon is just the collective unconscious, and realizing this will constitute the Panpsychic Catastrophe........ it is psyches, all the way down....

Is that enough breadcrumbs, before breakfast?


5pm EDT----------------

Grant Cameron wanted to know if I'd ever heard of this fellow......

http://silverscreensaucers.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/cia-veteran-writes-roswell-conspiracy.html

I had not.



(cont.)

dan wrote:And, Jake, thank you for the link to Fore's condensed version of the old OMF. Jake's linking post is here..... https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t33-open-minds-forum-archive#181

Yes, Google can't crawl it. But then Google can't remove it either.

Thank you for sharing news of your trip in God's country. I remember you mentioning the horse whisperer a couple years back. That was a beautiful place she lived. Gee, if I wasn't so inclined to work until my last breath, her property would be just the perfect place I could settle into.

Jake,

Wintertime at Louise's is well nigh impossible, unless you invent an antidote for cabin fever. And unless the fences can be repaired, it will quickly become a cow commons, with the usual overgrazing of the summer forest grazing permits that surround her property. It is only the rich horse farmers from out of state who can afford to maintain such land.

Increasingly there will be the threat of forest fires, which have already devastated big hunks of the area. Insurance on improvements is hardly affordable or even sensible. This was a big part of Louise's discouragement.



(cont.)

Hi Dan Montana is a place unlike most others. People don't move here to get rich. It is a lifestyle and a culture and a way of looking at the world that brings those who come to stay. What need is there for insurance? Fencing is always a work in progress especially when the deer, elk, and pronghorn tear it up so much with their leaping it or crawling through it or even back scratching on it by leaning into it until it's bowed out of shape and the posts are pulled from the ground. It's a measure of the psyche to weather the fires, the incessent winds, and the mosquitos. But all that's just part of the landscape. The real wonder is in the life that flourishes here both animal and humankind. The real wonder is in belief in human potential that not only sweetens dreams but is exercised and realized in body even if it is only exhibited after one has hauled water from a cistern or hiked through hip deep mountain snow to check the cattle, lol.

Enroute to Philadelphia---------

Is this still the best possible world?  I'm even more inclined to think that now, than I was, two weeks ago and five months ago, and this is not about me.  It is mostly to do with mostly to do with my better understanding of Louise, that has come in these two time frames.  

It's fair to say that Louise did not have a happy life.  Who's fault was that?  

It was no one's fault.  It was felix culpa, for all of us, especially me.  

I've heard it said many times that someone has been touched.  It happened to me once before.  Maybe it will happen again.  Maybe it is starting.  I was touched by that hawk.  A few minutes ago I was touched by a jet.  Maybe I am touched in the head.  Who knows......?  I'm kinda expecting to be touched more often, going forward.  That's all.  And it could be everything.  If it is, then it is the beginning of the end, as long as it's ok with you all.  

That's what I mean by the BPWH/OOO........ 

Indy may be about to be touched by record heat, 105', and drought.  Is that a BP touch?  Maybe.....  Felix culpa.  

I think it may be about time for us to get out our spiritual surfboards.  It's gonna be interesting...... just like they say.  Les jeux sont fait.  Fear not.  

Descending into Brotherly Love......... 
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Cy,

Bless you. I am always open to the possibility that I am in the right place at the right time. And, if truth be known, that is what the Endimes are about. It is about being present in a special and personal way. Every hour we are being taught to be more open. Some of those lessons are easy, some are very difficult. Louise learned these lessons in her bpw way...... nay/neigh...... in our bpw way. I remain her student. She, mine....? Perhaps......

I'm still on the Montana mountain wave, in my Schweitzer 232(?).

If we are on the wave, it will get better. Can it get worse?

I learned that it was BK who introduced Louise to the Freemen. Was that good or bad, Cy?

Do you know anything about BK? I wonder what RP knows, or could know.


I'll be interested to get any feedback concerning being present. It is the easiest and most difficult thing. Many cliches apply and don't apply. It can get very personal. That is what theism is about.

With Suzy, we discussed how there are quite a few folks who have a very strong aversion to Christians. Louise was one of these. I struggle to understand this. I'm thinking it has something to do with misanthropy...... hey, not that there is anything wrong with that!

IMHO, misanthropy has to do with too much hope. Louise hoped....... both too much and too little. Too much for her lifetime..... too little for humanity.

Livingston, as are all of we, is a microcosm. Louise spanned that cosmos. In that sense I am her student. In patience, she is mine.

The negativity is the glass through which we look, darkly. And there are Free Minutes in montana.... or so I'm told. Are they harmless...... pretty much. Ask RP. TedK was a stimulus. Whatever floats our boats.


Enroute to Philadelphia---------

Is this still the best possible world?  I'm even more inclined to think that now, than I was, two weeks ago and five months ago, and this is not about me.  It is mostly to do with mostly to do with my better understanding of Louise, that has come in these two time frames.  

It's fair to say that Louise did not have a happy life.  Who's fault was that?  

It was no one's fault.  It was felix culpa, for all of us, especially me.  

I've heard it said many times that someone has been touched.  It happened to me once before.  Maybe it will happen again.  Maybe it is starting.  I was touched by that hawk.  A few minutes ago I was touched by a jet.  Maybe I am touched in the head.  Who knows......?  I'm kinda expecting to be touched more often, going forward.  That's all.  And it could be everything.  If it is, then it is the beginning of the end, as long as it's ok with you all.  

That's what I mean by the BPWH/OOO........ 

Indy may be about to be touched by record heat, 105', and drought.  Is that a BP touch?  Maybe.....  Felix culpa.  

I think it may be about time for us to get out our spiritual surfboards.  It's gonna be interesting...... just like they say.  Les jeux sont fait.  Fear not.  

Descending into Brotherly Love......... 


Enroute to BWI-------- 

Very short route..... 

It does appear that I may be going to the b-day of KRP.   

We are at the head of the Chesapeake.  I'm kinda thinking we will survive, despite all the gloom-sayers.  Does anyone pay more attention?  

And now we are descending into total Charm.  This is not Shelly's (Stanford, MB charm) but it is similar........ 


I was on the phone to Palmer C in Los Cruces. He has, maybe, three years.

He is in good spirits, and that is what counts.

I'm on the light rail. Palmer's son is in the Mideast with the F22's, and it may have something to do with the Mahdi, as in MA. But, hey, what do I know?



(cont.) 

You said: Cy,

Bless you. I am always open to the possibility that I am in the right place at the right time. And, if truth be known, that is what the Endimes are about. It is about being present in a special and personal way. Every hour we are being taught to be more open. Some of those lessons are easy, some are very difficult. Louise learned these lessons in her bpw way...... nay/neigh...... in our bpw way. I remain her student. She, mine....? Perhaps......

yes we are always in the right place and time, but I do not define this as the "endtimes" by my knowledge despite the collective human and planetary cataclysm we are about to travel through. We have been through this before you know. It isn't the first time. We puzzle over the multifaceted enigma of contact and evolution without remembering who we are and that we once were out there among the stars...at least some of our ancestors were. Yes we are engaged in learning to be more open...very much so. Some are ready for it others not and some will hit the ground running as the need and circumstances demand surprising all observers.

I'm still on the Montana mountain wave, in my Schweitzer 232(?).

If we are on the wave, it will get better. Can it get worse?

Everything happening right now is seeking its climax...that ridge hasn't been reached yet...there is always the ride down the far slope waiting for us. Just ask one of my goat babies who tonight was discovered with his body stuck perfectly in a large gopher hole like a cork in a bottle, hidden by tall weeds...despite his predicament he kept his walnut sized brain about him and patiently waited for a little help to 'unplug' him. All things in good time. It will get there, it always does. We are not alone. We don't reside in a closed system. Louise was right, there is always room for hope. And I will add that struggles never come without some sort of perk...

I learned that it was BK who introduced Louise to the Freemen. Was that good or bad, Cy?

Do you know anything about BK? I wonder what RP knows, or could know.

BK is a two letter name and this is a big world to hunt a needle in...but I can say I know a "BK" out of Liberty Tree Radio who might be a person knowledgeable enough to give references. I live in the heart of Freemen and Minutemen country yet I am personally set apart and don't know any here specifically. I do know many Oathkeepers. None of these I've named are bad or bad people. That's concept of being bad is pure propaganda proposed by a system that does not respect individualism, sovereignty, or laws, and is supported by less educated dwellers of the citizenry who seem to think we can live without the several centuries of carefully cultivated truths and corresponding freedoms. Like any group of individuals there are flavors and colors of character types. That is human nature; and inescapble as truths go. If you seek more information about her life in relation to them then walk without fear, wear your soul upon your sleeve, and treat the ideas and truths of others with the same respect you'd hope they treat you. No one would fail to empathize with your loss. If this is not helpful seeking the person try contacting Oathkeepers members and see if the person is known there.

I'll be interested to get any feedback concerning being present. It is the easiest and most difficult thing. Many cliches apply and don't apply. It can get very personal. That is what theism is about.

I will try to respond better tomorrow. Cy
With Suzy, we discussed how there are quite a few folks who have a very strong aversion to Christians. Louise was one of these. I struggle to understand this. I'm thinking it has something to do with misanthropy...... hey, not that there is anything wrong with that!

IMHO, misanthropy has to do with too much hope. Louise hoped....... both too much and too little. Too much for her lifetime..... too little for humanity.

Livingston, as are all of we, is a microcosm. Louise spanned that cosmos. In that sense I am her student. In patience, she is mine.

The negativity is the glass through which we look, darkly. And there are Free Minutes in montana.... or so I'm told. Are they harmless...... pretty much. Ask RP. TedK was a stimulus. Whatever floats our boats.

[i]