The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

First topic message reminder :

Hi ScarZ,

Thank you for posting this information. Does any of David Flynn's material give any idea to the time-frames for the early events or historical figures that his research indicated?

Here is a youtube link to the Coast to Coast show with Michael Heiser as one of the guest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RFKnEDOPLlU


Apocalypticism & Biblical Texts

Date: 12-20-12
Host: George Noory
Guests: Mike Heiser, Lauren Cielo

Appearing during the middle two hours, expert in theology, Biblical languages, and world civilizations, Mike Heiser discussed the history of apocalyptic beliefs, why for millennia we have predicted "end times," and the current concern over 12-21-12. The end date of the Mayan calendar or the closing of one of their cycles would have been a cause of celebration for the ancient Maya, and they never said anything about the end of the world, he commented. "They were really about the new beginning on the other side; I think we sort of filled in a negative field to it," he added. Further, the Bible doesn't say anything about 2012, though it may be possible to pull out some references to it using the Bible Code, or by juggling numbers mentioned in certain apocalyptic passages, Heiser continued.

He questioned the idea of the Rapture believed by some Christians, noting that this is a New Testament interpretation based on two different events related to Jesus' second coming, whereas certain occurrences in the Gospel described in different ways, are considered a single event. He spoke about the number 666 mentioned in end times prophecy, which he related to the Greco-Roman concept of the 'magic square of the sun,' a kind of occult mathematics. Through a circuitous route, the number 666 indicates something about the cosmic impostor or enemy to God or Christ, he suggested. Heiser also critiqued the work of Zecharia Sitchin, disagreeing with a number of his translations of Sumerian cuneiform, which form the foundation of his theories about Nibiru, and the Annunaki.

Clairvoyance & Energy Reading

First hour guest, clairvoyant Dr. Lauren Cielo talked about how she reads soul energy, and her psychic process. She believes her clairvoyance is related to the sixth chakra which plugs into the pineal gland, and has been called "the third eye" throughout the ages. Currently, our bodies and chakras are being bombarded by new energies, as our planet moves into a new ascension phase, she said. Cielo noted that people can be born with different spiritual "contracts," but through energy work, these can be shifted or changed.

During the last hour, as we moved into the calendar date of 12-21-12, George featured Open Lines, with the special topic of 'what would you do if this was your last day?'

Merry Christmas brother.

Though the days of this world be uncertain, come what may, His light forever shines in the darkness, showing the path to those who see. The Great Hope remains alive within all who receive The Way.

Thanksgiving and Peace to all.

Some great words Jake. I like your post to Dan in his thread,very well put. I just pray Dan will read,fully understand and move in that direction.

Have a great Christmas Jake and that goes for everyone else also.

Thanks ScaRZ, and thanks for the Heiser C2C link, I think I'll listen to that today. We're in the midst of a wintery mini-blizzard, so I'm cozied-in for the day.

I just listened to this question and answer type interview with Steve Eastman asking questions to Peter Goodgame. It's only around 30 minutes in length and is very high quality sound. In my opinion it's one of the best at asking a question and Peter going straight to the heart. We really get an opportunity to understand so very much about Peter Goodgame and his work. In a 30 minute time frame Peter answers several key questions. I thought it was great!

Here is the link to the interview. Just scroll to the bottom of the page and look for the...Interview with Peter Goodgame,author of "The Second Coming of the Antichrist"

http://www.faithissues.com/page/480363596

Listening to the interview with Peter Goodgame got me thinking back on the subject of the 70 Sons of God taking rulership of the 70 nations. It led me to The Book of Jasher and some interesting reading came of it. I will lay it out below and you will quickly understand why I found it so interesting.....70 Sons of God,70 Nations,70 Languages.

In The Book of Jasher 48:43 we read that it describes the throne of Pharaoh having 70 steps.

Jasher 48:43-48

And the throne on which the king sat was covered with gold and silver and onyx stones, and it had seventy steps.

And it was their custom throughout the land of Egypt, that every man who came to speak to the king, if he was a prince or one that was estimable in the sight of the king, he ascended to the king's throne as far as the thirty-first step, and the king would descend to the thirty-sixth step, and speak with him.

If he was one of the common people, he ascended to the third step, and the king would descend to the fourth and speak to him, and their custom was, moreover, that any man who understood to speak in all the seventy languages, he ascended the seventy steps, and went up and spoke till he reached the king.

And any man who could not complete the seventy, he ascended as many steps as the languages which he knew to speak in.

And it was customary in those days in Egypt that no one should reign over them, but who understood to speak in the seventy languages.

And when Joseph came before the king he bowed down to the ground before the king, and he ascended to the third step, and the king sat upon the fourth step and spoke with Joseph.


As we can read Joseph at this point was only a common person and only ascended to the third step. Things were about to change for Joseph as he is about to interpret the dream of Pharaoh. Joseph is about to be placed over the land.

Jasher 49:8......."And the king said to all the officers: I have thought that since God has made known to the Hebrew man all that he has spoken, there is none so discreet and wise in the whole land as he is; if it seem good in your sight I will place him over the land, for he will save the land with his wisdom."


The officers quickly point out to Pharaoh that Joseph can't speak 70 languages that are written in the laws of Egypt.

Jasher 49:9-10

And all the officers answered the king and said, But surely it is written in the laws of Egypt, and it should not be violated, that no man shall reign over Egypt, nor be the second to the king, but one who has knowledge in all the languages of the sons of men.

Now therefore our lord and king, behold this Hebrew man can only speak the Hebrew language, and how then can he be over us the second under government, a man who not even knoweth our language?


That night an angel came to Joseph and taught him all 70 languages.

Jasher 49:13-14

And on that night the Lord sent one of his ministering angels, and he came into the land of Egypt unto Joseph, and the angel of the Lord stood over Joseph, and behold Joseph was lying in the bed at night in his master's house in the dungeon, for his master had put him back into the dungeon on account of his wife.

And the angel roused him from his sleep, and Joseph rose up and stood upon his legs, and behold the angel of the Lord was standing opposite to him; and the angel of the Lord spoke with Joseph, and he taught him all the languages of man in that night, and he called his name Jehoseph.


The next day Joseph ascends the 70 steps by speaking all 70 languages and becomes second to the king over the whole land of Egypt.

Jasher 49:17-19

And the king came forth and ascended the steps of the throne, and Joseph spoke unto the king in all languages, and Joseph went up to him and spoke unto the king until he arrived before the king in the seventieth step, and he sat before the king.

And the king greatly rejoiced on account of Joseph, and all the king's officers rejoiced greatly with the king when they heard all the words of Joseph.

And the thing seemed good in the sight of the king and the officers, to appoint Joseph to be second to the king over the whole land of Egypt,


The Book of Jasher
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/index.htm

Nice post Scarz.

This one made me think - 'I need to read Jasher again.'

I'm glad your around.

MD02 wrote:Nice post Scarz.

This one made me think - 'I need to read Jasher again.'

I'm glad your around.

Great to hear from you MD02. I was hoping someone else found it interesting.

It got me really interested in the angel that came and taught Joseph the 70 languages.

How was it possible to teach Joseph 70 languages in a single night?....."It appears something had to be programmed,downloaded into his mind,or a section of his mind was opened."

Of coarse whatever The LORD'S will is no doubt can and will come to be. But with that in mind,there still must be some specific way of accomplishing it.

ScaRZ wrote:

MD02 wrote:Nice post Scarz.

This one made me think - 'I need to read Jasher again.'

I'm glad your around.

Great to hear from you MD02. I was hoping someone else found it interesting.

It got me really interested in the angel that came and taught Joseph the 70 languages.

How was it possible to teach Joseph 70 languages in a single night?....."It appears something had to be programmed,downloaded into his mind,or a section of his mind was opened."

Of coarse whatever The LORD'S will is no doubt can and will come to be. But with that in mind,there still must be some specific way of accomplishing it.

I was thinking the same thing -

How can one learn 70 languages in one night? Downloaded - or opened-up to the WORDs. Then I thought, can you imagine trying to recite each language and not forgetting what you already spoke in and what remained to speak?!

The Mental capacity of most humanity, however limited, seems to be capable of much more. Look at the Savants, the Autistic Savants, the Prodigies, and capacity of dreamers to inspire creations into reality.

Clearly, we have MUCH room to grow.

Jasher's night messengers seemed to know how to accomplish this. Interestingly enough, the messengers of old, and even today, seem to have no language barriers.

"and the angel of the Lord stood over Joseph, and behold Joseph was lying in the bed at night in his master's house in the dungeon."

Do you think Jasher had the wits scared out of him when he woke?

MD02 wrote:

I was thinking the same thing -

How can one learn 70 languages in one night? Downloaded - or opened-up to the WORDs. Then I thought, can you imagine trying to recite each language and not forgetting what you already spoke in and what remained to speak?!

The Mental capacity of most humanity, however limited, seems to be capable of much more. Look at the Savants, the Autistic Savants, the Prodigies, and capacity of dreamers to inspire creations into reality.

Clearly, we have MUCH room to grow.

Jasher's night messengers seemed to know how to accomplish this. Interestingly enough, the messengers of old, and even today, seem to have no language barriers.

"and the angel of the Lord stood over Joseph, and behold Joseph was lying in the bed at night in his master's house in the dungeon."

Do you think Jasher had the wits scared out of him when he woke?

As it reads Joseph didn't even know the Egyptian language before the teaching of the ministering angel........"a man who not even knoweth our language."

The ministering angel was acting as the agent or instrument,to administer to the needs. I'm sure if I arose from sleep and saw a figure standing over me I would be terrified. Of coarse it's all about the mind and the ministering angel could use an ability to comfort before he arose from sleep.

The mind is a powerful thing that for some allows deeper understanding or greater knowledge. Are certain areas of the mind opened that allow this?

Are our minds also closed off in certain areas?

Can all of our minds be opened in every area?

Can all of our minds be closed in every area?....."Is this death?"

I believe all of us have gifts and talents. We all don't have the same gifts and talents. Some with the greatest school smarts can't program a DVR. Many who struggle in school can be masters using their minds for a vast ocean of works using their hands.



I was reading a book on abductions the other day by Carissa Conti titled "Chasing Phantoms". It was all about the subject of abduction and the mind control phenomenon.

One area Carissa touched on was for some abduction cases having an ability for unusually good memory. I quote Carissa Conti........"What it all means, I’m not sure,but it seems to be indicative of something. I think people can be, and most likely are, tinkered with during their abductions and programming. Brains are upgraded,people will find themselves with skill they didn’t used to have and some of it may even be the natural by‐product of other things that they’re being used for."

Interesting!

Digress; I spent a couple hours the other day researching scholarly articles on the origin and authenticity of the book Jasher. There are a couple versions which are considered frauds. ScaRZ, you quoted from the version that is the most recognized authentic version. It was originally translated into English by a Jewish Rabbinical Scholar.

There was a Jewish settlement in Salt Lake in the early 1800's. The Rabbi had a Hebrew version of the oldest surviving copy of Jasher from the 1600's. And he translated it in 1840. Coincidentally, the Mormons also settled in Salt Lake to escape persecution around that time. And they were intrigued by the book and consequently included it in their library of extra-biblical books. Because of this, some say that it is a Mormon book and thus refrain from accepting it for that cause. However, the Jews in Salt Lake considered the Mormons to be fraudulent in their scriptures and had nothing to do with them. Jasher was a Jewish book, and is accepted by today's Jews as equally reliable for instruction, as the Talmud.

Back to 70 languages..

This reminds me....I have witnessed people speaking in tongues, while praying. It is remarkable to say the least!

The first time I encountered it was in high school. I wasn't present at the time however I was part of the Christian Fellowship Group at my high school and knew all of them as friends and fully trust their witness. Boyd was only 17 at the time. He was a white anglo saxon protestant Baptist, and only spoke English. During closing pray of the bible study he suddenly began speaking in an unknown language. He totally startled the entire group and they simply watched him in awe wondering what was going on. He continued for about 5 minutes, standing as he spoke, and when he finished he didn't know what happened. One of the fellowship members was Korean, 16 or 17 years of age. To the shock of everyone else there, he said he understood everything, and that Boyd spoke in perfect Korean. And told everyone it was the most beautiful prayer he had every heard anyone say.

All Boyd remembered was that he felt very close to God and could feel the love of the Holy Spirit embrace him. But did not know what he had said and had no subsequent recollection.

Boyd went on to Bible College and became a Pastor. I don't know about the Korean, but I'm sure it changed his life forever.


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Happy New Year everyone!

Oh, to add - there were about 7-9 people present at the Bible Study after school that day. But within the week, the entire high school and staff of approx 1,000 students, heard all about it. Boyd became quite popular because of it, and witnessed his faith to many students.

Hello All ! Happy New Years, Hope I can get to this place more often now. Lets see if I can figure out how to post here
Seems I have a lot of reading to catch up on ...

Hello vectorian,I'm glad to see you made it here. I wish you and all A Happy New Year.

Welcome, V .......

Yes, welcome Victorian,

I remember your name from the past. Been over a year and so I can't quite recall who you are, and what your interests and views were. But I do recall the name fondly, meaning I thought you one of the nicer people. I'm getting older and so forgive me for not remembering more. I used to try and remember an overview of every OMF member, but when we reached over 4,000 members it became increasingly difficult to keep up.

Happy New year, Victorian.

Something new from Tom Horn. I'm only going to post some snippets from each part so be sure and click the link for the full articles.

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EXO-VATICANA

Part 1 THE INVESTIGATION BEGINS
http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/vaticana1.htm


Petrus Romanus, PROJECT LUCIFER, and the Vatican's astonishing exo-theological plan for the arrival of an alien savior.

********

But as much as the commonality of UFO sightings on Mt. Graham’s telescopes intrigued, this was not the primary reason for our being there. We had come with deeper questions concerning high-level Vatican astronomers and what they had been leaking to, and discussing with, media in recent years. Captivating comments from Jesuit priests like Guy Consolmagno—a leading astronomer who often turns up in media as a spokesman for the Vatican who has worked at NASA and taught at Harvard and MIT and who currently splits his time between the Vatican Observatory and laboratory (Specola Vaticana) headquartered at the summer residence of the Pope in Castel Gandolfo, Italy, and Mt. Graham in Arizona.

Over the last few years, he has focused so much of his time and effort in an attempt to reconcile science and religion in public forums specifically as it relates to the subject of extraterrestrial life and its potential impact on the future of faith that we decided to contact him. He agreed to be interviewed from Rome, and over the numerous exchanges that followed he told us some things that seemed beyond the scope. He even sent us a copy of a private pdf, a literal goldmine of what he and the Vatican are considering regarding the ramifications of astrobiology and specifically the discovery of advanced extraterrestrials... in which he admits how contemporary societies will soon “look to The Aliens to be the Saviours of humankind.”

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Part 2 WHAT THEY SEE
http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/vaticana2.htm


In our last entry top Vatican Astronomer Guy Consolmagno stated how contemporary societies may soon “look to The Aliens to be the Saviours of humankind.” [i] To illustrate the theological soundness of this possibility, Consolmago argues that humans are not the only intelligent beings God created in the universe, and, he says, these non-human lifeforms are described in the Bible. He starts by pointing to angels then surprises us by actually referencing the Nephilim:


Other heavenly beings come up several times in the Psalms. For example, look at the beautiful passage in Psalm 89 that calls out, “Let the heavens praise your wonders, 0 Lord, your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones. For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord? Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord? ... The heavens are yours, the earth also is yours; the world and all that is in it -you have founded them.” Likewise, God asks Job (38:7) if any human can claim to have been around at the creation, “when the morning stars sang together and all the heavenly beings shouted for joy .”

Are these “heavens,” “holy ones,” those “in the sky,” the “morning stars ... and heavenly beings” more references to angels? Or do they refer to some other kind of life beyond our knowledge?

…And these are not the only non-human intelligent creatures mentioned in the Bible. There’s that odd, and mysterious, passage at the beginning of Genesis, Chapter 6, that describes the “sons of God” taking human wives. With it is a frustratingly oblique reference to “The Nephilim ...the heroes that were of old, warriors of renown .”

Most Biblical scholars suggest that the Nephelim and the Sons of God in Genesis can be explained away as a left-over reference to the creation stories of the pagans who surrounded ancient Israel, that they were written by the kind of people whose culture saw anyone Not Of My Tribe as being unspeakably alien. Likewise, the references to heavens and stars singing and praising the Lord can be seen simply for the beautiful poetry that it is.

But whether you interpret these creatures as angels or aliens doesn’t really matter for the sake of our argument here. The point is that the ancient writers of the Bible, like all ancient peoples, were perfectly happy with the possibility that other intelligent beings could exist.

Thank you ScaRZ for bringing this to our attention.

As you know I have an insider understanding with the Vatican. I choose not to elaborate more on that here.

Tom is a talented investigator and does a good work. However he is mistaken on his perspective, as many others of his paradigm. Which was prophesied long ago. He understands these prophecies as well. Which makes it even more complexing to unravel.

Indeed we understand that nefarious Visitors exist. However there are benevolent Visitors as well. Christians can not deny that Angels of G-d have Visited our realm.

And we must always remain mindful that G-d loves us, has a purpose for us, and Will Not Foresake us!

Tom is much too quick to find fault in the Visitors. Many amoung the Visitors are on our side. G-d would not permit it otherwise.

Yes, the Vatican will be deceived. But also, the Vatican will not be deceived. There are diverging groups within the Hierarchy.

Discoveries are just that... discoveries! How they are interpreted is the root of deception. Such that, not that the revelations are wrong, but that the interpretations are folly.

We must remain mindful of this during these times. Because, (in Christian Lingual) God has sent/permitted his messengers here as well. God has sent His own!

We will not be forsaken. But some will surely deduce we are being deceived by God's own chosen messengers. Some, if not many, will believe His Angels to be Demons.

The Catholic church has a history of this. Burning those that are centuries later uplifted as Saints. Tom Horn needs to be mindful of this. Evangelical Protestants are equaling as prone to make the same errors.

Nefarious Visitors will not succeed in destroying God's creation here. Prophecy declared it so. If one is to believe prophecy, then one must also believe that there are Visitors here, working for God's Will.

And if they be working for God's will....they are already redeemed.

ScaRZ,

What do you think about this latest Vatican discover from Tom Horn?

Jake Reason wrote:Thank you ScaRZ for bringing this to our attention.


Indeed we understand that nefarious Visitors exist. However there are benevolent Visitors as well. Christians can not deny that Angels of G-d have Visited our realm.


Tom is much too quick to find fault in the Visitors. Many amoung the Visitors are on our side. G-d would not permit it otherwise.


We must remain mindful of this during these times. Because, (in Christian Lingual) God has sent/permitted his messengers here as well. God has sent His own!

Nefarious Visitors will not succeed in destroying God's creation here. Prophecy declared it so. If one is to believe prophecy, then one must also believe that there are Visitors here, working for God's Will.

And if they be working for God's will....they are already redeemed.

Jake

Your thinking mimics feelings that I have held in the last few years. I concur with you.

Christians, a large majority, have a tendency to rush to judgment with all things, especially the most devout. They fear all things ‘unholy’ or seemingly so - all the while oblivious to their own nature!

If only they could recognize this.

The link you provided Christmas week helped me see this with a bit more clarity than before. Christ’s followers should spend less time assuming they are saints.

During Christmas week I had the opportunity to explain to several of His followers that December 25th was not when Jesus was born. You would have thought after being called, ‘a devil’ I would have relented, but I challenged them to ‘look it up.’ Still, silence…

I shared the story of Jesus in the marketplace, and His anger, because of the disrespect on the holy day and what was to be holy ground, flipping tables.

I then asked: Do you believe Christ would not do the same to your Xmas trees and gifts you heap upon yourself, friends, and families when you could have helped so many others in need? Do you actually believe He would approve of this - especially in the manner in which you enrich yourself to remember His birth?

I did apologize to one – for cutting too deep a day later after I realized the hurt I had caused. The writing is on the wall and still, cannot see. Some seek God so hard - they become easily led.

Forgive me, but I have strayed.

We cannot assume, with all of the scriptural evidence of God’s own visiting humanity periodically, all of those TODAY stem from a nefarious nature. If one persists on that path then logically they should accept that all of the visitors to man in the past are of the same dark nature.

Mankind is currnetly blinded by the very separation that God imposed. When has a blind man (metaphorically) been able to see anything with clarity, I ask you?

Thanks Jake and MD02 for your interest in the articles. There will be more Parts coming from Tom Horn and I will post links when they become available.

When I get some free time today I will give my thoughts on Toms articles as well as both of your post.

Jake Reason wrote:ScaRZ,

What do you think about this latest Vatican discover from Tom Horn?

I really didn't see it as a new discovery. Most of this has been around for a good while. I certainly don't take much stock in the Vatican's view on just about anything.

Tom Horn does some good work that in many circles isn't liked.

Of coarse anyone who decides to venture in dark areas will compound many enemies. If one isn't very careful they can find themselves being stained by the darkness.

Not every believer and follower of Jesus Christ can enter these areas. A person can very quickly become a lost sheep. The LORD must lead the way,or the flesh will win.



As far as the subject of the visitors,from this point forward I will give only "My Opinion". I'm not going to post scripture,ancient text,research material or quoting anyone else.

I don't believe "All" visitors have been,are,or will be only bad guys. Without a doubt I know we need to be very careful trusting any of the visitors. I'm certainly not one for opening wide my arms with a blind mind.

The dark forces are masters at letting us see what we desire to see. Our flesh grabs hold and we consume the eye candy.

From the point of this earth on outward into the heavens as far as we have seen it is ruled by the powers of the heavens. One day a mighty shaking will take place and the powers will be moved.

Are there other worlds of creatures within these heavens that we have seen,fighting the same battles that we fight against these powers of the heavens? Are they at war with their (flesh,suit,house,tent) as we are?.........."If they die then they are stained,and they battle."

If it came right down to it they would need discerning minds viewing humans. It certainly wouldn't be a one way street on only humans behalf.

MD02 wrote:

During Christmas week I had the opportunity to explain to several of His followers that December 25th was not when Jesus was born. You would have thought after being called, ‘a devil’ I would have relented, but I challenged them to ‘look it up.’ Still, silence…

I shared the story of Jesus in the marketplace, and His anger, because of the disrespect on the holy day and what was to be holy ground, flipping tables.

I then asked: Do you believe Christ would not do the same to your Xmas trees and gifts you heap upon yourself, friends, and families when you could have helped so many others in need? Do you actually believe He would approve of this - especially in the manner in which you enrich yourself to remember His birth?

I have found myself over many years getting into conversations around Christmas time. I have not been into the whole "Christmas Thing" in many,many years. When I first stopped it was like I was an alien in many of my on families minds. Some of them got so mad they stormed out and I didn't hear from them for some time.

I did what I thought was correct for me. I lay out why I chose to no longer follow that direction. For the last three years before I stopped,it was on my mind all the time.

I never attempted to force others to stop as I did. That is for each to decide for themselves.

I hate with a passion the whole Santa lie. What does any of that have to do with the birth of Jesus?

If I want to give someone a gift,I give it on any day of the year. I'm thankful every day for the birth of Jesus.

I got so sick of mammonism ruling the day. Retailers taking over the minds and wallets of the masses.

If I was going to run my mouth about how displeased I was with "The Whole Christmas Thing" then it was time to put up or shut up.

It was one of the best things I ever did and I don't miss any of it one grain of sand.

ScaRZ wrote:



As far as the subject of the visitors,from this point forward I will give only "My Opinion". I'm not going to post scripture,ancient text,research material or quoting anyone else.

I don't believe "All" visitors have been,are,or will be only bad guys. Without a doubt I know we need to be very careful trusting any of the visitors. I'm certainly not one for opening wide my arms with a blind mind.

I will -post a video that is

Excellent conversation here fella's and ladies too. The Vatican stuff is interesting. Malachi Martin was an interesting guy some say fraud.. Why spend so much of one's life looking through a telescope ? Odd isn't it? lol.

Ok but as far as some "worldly" view point on all this the Russians making the news about MIB etc lately was interesting...
Sorry- it's a little long and you have to read the transcription but there is some fascinating witness testimony in it.. for those who have time...

http://www.examiner.com/video/russian-men-black-documentary



Ok and so back to the article:
"While Christ is the First and the Last Word (the Alpha and the Omega) spoken to humanity, he is not necessarily the only word spoke to the universe… For, the Word spoken to us does not seem to exclude an equivalent “Word” spoken to aliens. They, too, could have had their “Logos-event”. Whatever that event might have been, it does not have to be a repeated death-and-resurrection, if we allow God more imagination than some religious thinkers seem to have had. For God, as omnipotent, is not restricted to one form of language, the human."

Well.... Umm kind of like the conversation you guys just had about the 70 languages: Umm Ultimately "THE WORD IS THE WORD" Yes?

@Nib

I come back to this verse of scripture over and over.

Romans 8:22........"For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now."

If this verse is indeed referring to "The Whole Creation",then this would certainly cover not only earthly creation but also the whole creation within all the heavenly realms.

"The Whole Creation" is like a woman about to give birth.
This shows us the massive effect that rebellion has caused on the whole creation.

The effects run deeper than we humans have ever conceived. The birth pangs continue but one day they will come to a climax. What will then come for the whole creation?