Persons within the substance of love.

First topic message reminder :

(‘first topic message reminder.......’)

Once again, I attempt to bring the conversation back to Personalism......

Disclosure is simply going to underscore the infinite worth and potential of every sapient creature, ie, person.  Anything other than that is simply false.
...........


(Please keep in mind the links given in the fifth post on this thread......

https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t313-three-in-one )

A girl in an empty vessel holding an empty box, being sent back out to sea.

Very good, Ackbar.  

And now she wants a chicken run.  And the chickens lay real eggs.  

See how much progress we have made in two centuries.

Please don’t send us back out to sea, not just yet.

If Ack could help me keep smelly in the chicken coop, maybe we wouldn’t need to play with the Ebola telomeres.  I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy.  Please.......

And somebody’s got to do it, 99.

.

I AM uncontainable Danny boy.

Speaking of transformations in human society:

https://aeon.co/ideas/say-goodbye-to-the-information-age-its-all-about-reputation-now

We are experiencing a fundamental paradigm shift in our relationship to knowledge. From the ‘information age’, we are moving towards the ‘reputation age’, in which information will have value only if it is already filtered, evaluated and commented upon by others. Seen in this light, reputation has become a central pillar of collective intelligence today. It is the gatekeeper to knowledge, and the keys to the gate are held by others. The way in which the authority of knowledge is now constructed makes us reliant on what are the inevitably biased judgments of other people, most of whom we do not know.

Let me give some examples of this paradox. If you are asked why you believe that big changes in the climate are occurring and can dramatically harm future life on Earth, the most reasonable answer you’re likely to provide is that you trust the reputation of the sources of information to which you usually turn for acquiring information about the state of the planet. In the best-case scenario, you trust the reputation of scientific research and believe that peer-review is a reasonable way of sifting out ‘truths’ from false hypotheses and complete ‘bullshit’ about nature. In the average-case scenario, you trust newspapers, magazines or TV channels that endorse a political view which supports scientific research to summarise its findings for you. In this latter case, you are twice-removed from the sources: you trust other people’s trust in reputable science.

The “laws of physics” actually arise from the maximal number of experiments the humans of all times can in principle perform: What is and is not possible is not determined by physical “laws” but the other way around, it is these “laws” which actually arise from what is and is not possible.

The “hidden assumption” behind Many-Worlds is that the physical reality is defined by “the free choices human observers can in principle perform”. We play a role at the deepest level of the structure of physical reality.

This idea together with “Infuturabilien” leads to “All Possible-Worlds”, which is the coherent formulation of “Many-Worlds”: All possible setting-choices humans of all times can perform is a main ingredient of the contextual description of quantum. The other main ingredient is God’s contextual outcome assignments to all these possible choices distributed according to “the normative Born rule” (QBism) ...

Specifically, “infuturabilien” allow us to reformulate “Many-Worlds” as a theory of “All Possible-Worlds”, which do exist in the divine mind [5]:

By making a choice to perform a measurement the experimenter realizes one of these possible worlds, instead of provoking the split of the actual world (and the experimenter her/himself) into many
unconnected worlds, as Many-Worlds claims.

In this sense All-Possible-Worlds makes it possible to unify two interpretations of quantum physics considered opposite so far: Conpenhagen and Many-Worlds, and proposes “nonlocality at detection” as a principle ruling the whole quantum realm, including single qubit and qutrit experiments. In the same line of thinking it accounts for divine omniscience without abolishing human free-will, and thereby contributes to solve the outstanding “Infuturabilien” problem.

Additionally, All-Possible-Worlds has a number of interesting consequences for physics: The number of possible worlds in the divine mind is the same as the maximal number of free choices the humans of all times can in principle perform. If one acknowledges the theological theorem that this number is finite, and asks for physical features granting this, one is naturally lead to: 1) discreetness of space-time, 2) upper bounded signaling, and 3) the heat death of the universe (“time arrow” and “second law” of thermodynamics).

All this means that what is and is not possible is not determined by physical “laws” but the other way around, it is these “laws” which actually arise from what is and is not possible. All-Possible-Worlds bring to focus an overlooked feature of Many-Worlds: At the end of the day physical reality is defined by the free choices human observers can perform.

In summary, reformulating Many-Worlds in the light of Quantum Contextuality allow us to appreciate the astonishing potential of quantum physics for interpreting consistently the physical world without giving up free-will, stimulating interdisciplinary research, and contributing even to philosophical and theological knowledge, the kind of work Ernst Specker did. Paraphrasing Alexei Grinbaum: “By linking the mathematical properties of [the quantum] with other episodes in the history of ideas, one gives quantum theory and quantum technologies a place in history and a place in culture.” [6]


https://arxiv.org/pdf/1712.06448.pdf

Thank you, PF,

The article you cite does raise legitimate concerns.  

However, as a philosopher, Gloria ought to know better.  

She refers nostalgically to the bygone information age.  The implication is that, one upon a time, there existed bare facts to which we had direct access.  And also she appears not to understand the concept of a paradigm.  

This is one very big supposition and one very big caveat.  I reject the former and emphasize the latter.  

A paradigm is not concerned with any sort of ‘facts’, per se, but with the global interpretations of alleged facts.  There exist no uninterpreted facts.  

If you posit that the cat is on the mat.... it would require an encyclopedia to parse that alleged ‘fact’, and you would just be grazing the surface.  

To get an inkling of the magnitude of the problem, consider...... https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/meaning-holism/ .


On the other hand, the article that Gary (GSB) points to, does point to some truly substantive/ontological issues, just within the current paradigm. I highly recommend it.

But, having said that, the ‘just’ clause is a major reservation. One implication of the article, nonetheless, is that we might have to turn the world inside out.



(cont......)

Gary,

from your link, causality on the chopping block:

We  will  discuss  quantum  nonlocality  more  in  detail
later  in  Section  VII.  Here  it  is  suitable  to  remember
what experiments in the last three decades have demon-
strated and Specker’s parable also illustrates (see Fig.4):
Quantum correlations cannot be interpreted in the sense
that one event occurs first and is the cause of the other,
but one should rather state that correlated events arise
like a single event coming from outside space-time;  the
prophet’s assignment of outcomes does not involve any
time  order  and  so  can  be  considered  covariant.   Actu-
ally both, quantum nonlocal and local relativistic correla-
tions, assume “free will” and happen without connection
in space-time.

Might need to rethink common interpretations from results of testing Wheeler's Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser and later derivatives.

EDIT: Something I posted to one of AP's videos (lightly edited):

...let's talk about macro quantum effects like the double slit. With a humorous analogy.

Suppose there existed a football stadium. On one side of the field there was an automatic machine-clown-cannon, fed by a line of blindfolded clowns going out to a massive underground storage area. In the center, a huge metal double slit, suspended on poles. And where the far goal post should be, a big brick wall. The audience in the bleachers is told either to watch the ceremony or turn their backs.

Now, with the audience watching, you load up the automatic-cannon with that string of clowns and start firing. The clowns fly through the air. Most of them go splat on one side or the other of the double slit, but a few make it through. And those that do, when they hit the far wall, they also go splat there instead. We see by their trajectory a bloody line of goo up and down the wall, one per slit.

Now turn the audience around. Nobody's watching, not even the blindfolded clowns. What would happen? This a macro event, not a stream of photons. Will there be an interference pattern of clown spatter on that far wall?

I'd bet yes.

Yes, PF,

Good catch.......

Increasingly, folks of all persuasions are grappling with the definite possibility of a MoAPS.  

In a larger context, the entire scientific revolution was a piece of fake news.  Yes, the intentions of every individual scientist could have been golden, but, by ignoring the bigger questions, they were paving a pathway to hell.  

But, no, I don’t believe that for a minute.  Rather, science was the best possible pathway/setup for the MoAPS/BPWH.  


Quantum clowns.......?  

I hope you are joking, PF.  

But, yes, point taken.

And it might be more accurate to say that the Quantum is a micro effect of the BPWH.



(cont.......)

The Raven King

smelly wrote:I AM uncontainable Danny boy.

smelly wrote:The Raven King

You're making the same mistake that yaldabaoth guy made; he thought he was the only one too.

I’m sitting here smoking my joint and chatting lies with a muppet.

You got me.

Ha.

No way I'm staying away from the man with the aluminum foil hat.

Dan has asked everyone to stay on topic. Can someone explain to me what many of the recent posts have to do with the substance of love? I feel completely lost and confused.

Everything

Wheeee Waaaaayyyyy

Relax into it babiez...

Confusion is a great place to be, go with that.

Cuan Scott,

I agree.  One person can sabotage an entire forum.  

Complexity leads to fragility.  I doubt there is any simple answer.  

I will start deleting posts.  Eric Garza is a smart fellow.  I expect retaliation.  

Too bad.


3:20........

The potential love of many can be held hostage by the few who feel short changed.  We operate under the aegis of a such an imbalance.  

One country can easily be taken hostage by one confused person.  

How can the BPWH possibly remain viable in such circumstances?

These are the limits of personalism...... an anarchist one day, an autocrat the next.  

It is a mystery that our small world has gone this far.  People do feel that we are approaching the limits.  

Any one person holds a potential veto power over the futures of the rest of us.  

A new paradigm will be an uprooting experience for all of us.  Our safety nets are very liable to be misplaced and misused, as if they weren’t already.  Our tower of Babel is being built out of match sticks.  


Our spaceship Earth is becoming overly claustrophobic, especially since the waning of the space age.  If we are going to open a portal or two, yesterday would have been not soon enough.  Yes, these conveyances are going to have a destabilizing impact.  It’s not clear that the pros and cons will even be balanced.  We cannot deliberate much longer, before the test begins.  


There is talk of another attempted rollout by the pond.  My role is liable to be even more peripheral than before.  I wish them well.  Don’t ask if anyone is providing oversight.  It sounds rather spontaneous.  That might be all to the good.  We’re not talking about a rocket launch, evidently.





(cont.......)

You can delete anything you like Dan.

I expect nothin

I thought our dialogue clear.

Cover your privies and head with tin foil.

Oh, did we offend your delicate UFO nut sensibilities?

Relax.

It's OK smelly, I still love you and everyone else here.

I only love my Self, you guys unfortunately/fortunately come along with the deal

Ya know smelly, you can't love anyone else till you love yourself anyway, so don't feel bad about loving your self. Just sayin. Good thing I'm anti authoritarian....

Of course you must love yourself Smelly and all the other aspects of you. 7 billion+ of them. Muppets and all.

Shhhhh, CS, I cant let that get around.

Must make them think I’m a broken muppet with mommy issues

It’s funny, the Kings and Queens of man mostly use Magick today, consciously or notz.

Born on the 12th of July.

Two doves on our barn wall.


We have bird boxes on our barn wall , but the doves sat on top of them, and today two little doves appeared.


Never had doves before.


hobbit

We have two doves that live around the house now too.

Showed up last spring.

I love watching them.

Your president is just down the road at the moment...Blenheim palace,
Having a nosh up, You should see these doves parents feeding them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blenheim_Palace



http://www.garden-birds.co.uk/birds/collareddove.htm
hobbit

hobbit wrote:Your president is just down the road at the moment...Blenheim palace,
Having a nosh up, You should see these doves parents feeding them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blenheim_Palace

http://www.garden-birds.co.uk/birds/collareddove.htm
hobbit

Wow my hairy footed friend.

You are indeed Magick.

They can’t see you mostly, but I do.

I see it all around me now.

I clicked your link.

Sparrowhawk!!!

I just recently spoke that exact name to Ack in a personal thread with many spooky synchronicities.

He was a Native American shaman chief as well.

Pan again, damn!

Straight on.

And they can’t see it, bahahahaha.

—

Dan, I know most won’t come this far.

I know who I was before I came here.

Origin brought me out here into the deep.

Most will not expose the Origin in life.

We can hypnotize ourselves all we like.

But I am constant as a star.

I won’t ever stop.

There is mentally working things out and then committing psychological suicide.

Guess what I promote, hell, I’ll push any off the ledge that ask or not

Most compassionate thing I could ever do.

You have to want this only or death.

It takes that kind of pursuit.

It takes a lot humility to be as great as you are!

Can you bare it?!

It is that stark.

That deep.

That zero sum.

What we see of each other in this shared space and time is what you get, it is not who we are truly.

Fighting is fighting over illusions.

So we laugh

Go look in the mirror and see what you are NOT!!!

Thank god I’m not human.

Thank god I’m not what I look like or say or a smelly goat.

This is a temporary model that will be gone soon.

Origin always remains.

Nearer to you than all else is the Origin of the world.

“Man is like a mirage in the desert. You go up to him and where you thought was a man, you lose him and there you find God.” - The Koran