Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

First topic message reminder :

2:40pm EST

White Smoke 30 min ago.... Watching it live... awaiting the New Pope to walk out on the balcony. Vatican Guards and Italian Naval Soldiers marching on the steps of St.Peters Basilica, to the music of the Marching Band.




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edit notice: This thread is the Part Two continuation from the original thread - last post here -

https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t6p990-hello-cy-hello-omf-ii#2215

frightening...don't bother with the advice

just the tip of the iceberg

The govt has created a whole class that needs it to eat.

They will believe what ever the govt tells them to believe.

Good luck oathkeepers

Mur wrote:


frightening...don't bother with the advice

just the tip of the iceberg

The govt has created a whole class that needs it to eat.

They will believe what ever the govt tells them to believe.

Good luck oathkeepers

Mur you're preaching to the choir. Dan and Jake already know about it. And to illustrate where I'm at, my grandmother was involved in the 1940s with the discussions on state and national level on the 'big plan'. They called it "The Road To Survival" back then, the eugenics, and societal helmsmen. There's even a book that was published by that name that outlines much of the summary charting of the course in 1942. She was in the vanguard of those fighting it. I learned about much of this as a child in the 1970s. And I spent additional time with senior individuals with keen knowledge from the IC pov as a teen and young adult.

What you've posted here is old newz - 'we're way ahead of that' in so many ways.

Yes I feel for those who have no resources, especially those who in abject ignorance still reside in the cities where the masses will go rabid on each other on D-Day, and the outcome which the system lords already intend will result in them being a non-issue. Did I paint a pretty picture? The methods on the table wax and wan and are elaborately altered from day to day and fluid circumstances. But their goals haven't changed in several hundred years.

The one thing you're getting points for in this comment is that it is just the tip of the iceberg. Glad to hear you've digested that much of it.

Dan and I and Jake all have different takes on how this will go. Jake and I are the most similar. But his connections are more multi-national than mine as to his contributor's perspectives, whilst mine are more ground floor at the national base coordinates on the proverbial map. We're sitting around comparing notes and having lively debates. Each treats the other with respect even when we disagree.

Sharing info on recent and real time events isn't the same thing as trying to convince each other that one is more right than the others. Each brings pieces of the same puzzle to the table.

Mur this is so huge a conspiracy with compounding natural attributes that no one person can realistically deliver all of it in one digestible bite. That's just the nature of the problem, not a slight on any particular individual.

We have the luxury here in our little group at OMF to speak in the context of knowing generally what the others know. Thus we can move ahead and address other aspects. Dan's people are involved in trying to steer a part of the leviathan to their own ends. They are essentially one faction among many operating on the situational playing board. Discussion of that is what largely populates this thread. Dan participates in that effort as a member of that community and through the contribution of his perspective and philosophical prognostications. But you already know that.

I'm not going to stop you from participating here as long as you're not in wholesale destruct mode. But do us a favor and please don't treat either Dan or Jake as if they fell off the turnip truck yesterday. In their respective quarters they're on the expert level, whether you agree with their take on it or not. Even the experts bicker and quarrel over what they know, share what they've heard lately, and go to the extra length to find where the other stands.

This small community isn't built around a "I'm better than you, culture or a He's holier than thou, culture." This is just friends gathered round the hearth having an adult conversation.

Thanks for the good luck wishes for the oathkeepers. We know the score, each of us, no matter where we happen to be residing at the moment. Run if you like, but know this, that this is so huge there's really no where you can go, on the face of this planet, that the beast could not reach you should the oathkeepers fail in their honor and their duty. I for one won't run from a predator. That's never a smart choice.

Cy

Thank goodness you're not arrogant.

No one believes I brought down omf...because it isn't true

I have no allegiance to dirt...I'm not running...I'm leaving... exactly like both our forefathers did.

Mur wrote:Thank goodness you're not arrogant.

No one believes I brought down omf...because it isn't true

I have no allegiance to dirt...I'm not running...I'm leaving... exactly like both our forefathers did.

It's not an allegiance to dirt Mur. If I were prone to an allegiance to dirt I would not have left my state of origin to go live in Montana.

It's an allegiance to a set of ideas, principles - an ideology if you will. Sure I could practice it just about anywhere but I happen to believe in the original plan. And the only place intended for that plan to emerge and come to fruition is right here under our feet. You could try it somewhere else but you wouldn't get the original intended result.

I doubt your forefather was anything quite like mine. My forefather didn't just leave his homeland. He was the product of over a millennia of time spent by the members of our culture beneath a very different umbrella that grew up over them. When he left it was at the behest of our cultural group to seek out a new home and a fresh start for everyone, deliberately. And then he participated in the creation of a recognized colony along with the earliest transfers of the clannad. And his son after did the same overseeing the transfer of hundreds of families. They were building something coherent. And despite the many changes in our nation and in themselves since, they are still here.

I'm not aware of you participating in the building of something coherent or the preservation or restoration with far reaching consequences - generationally. Are you? I am participating in preserving that effort and work mine did. What are you doing?

There's not much difference between just up and leaving out of the blue because you feel the situation is not salvageable after a few years of difficulty, vs running from your problems.

But suit yourself.

And btw I never said you were the sole destroyer of the original forum. I've made no secret that I believe you were one of several who contributed to the end result. And yes I happen to consider you a substantial player in that. But it's all water under the bridge. The original forum is only an archive now. The 1000's of original members scattered across the net around the world, many still erroneously thinking all their time, work, and contributions were permanently lost. That's a heck of a feather to have in one's cap, no?

Surely you couldn't exactly blame me for the slight coldness in my voice if you could see it from my pov. If I waltzed into your world and the world of your friends, family, colleagues, and all, then proceeded to participate gleefully (example - posts you posted at Amkon to that effect) in the take down and decimation of something of similar value to you and they, would you not be of similar reaction? Most people I know would have nuked you on the spot the moment you showed up at the new location. But I have not. I don't see it as serving a useful purpose to do so. The label you carry upon you is censure enough because it is something you'll never escape no matter where you go on this planet.

Good fortune to you wherever you wander Mur.

Cy

like I said...luckily you're not arrogant...spawned by a race of super humans...your ancestors are better than mine...and yet a simple hoaxer fooled you...hahaha

bravo

keep going...this is priceless

Yeah...so where is your proof I or anyone other than Bren took down OMF?

no...that isn't your method of operation....you prefer to spread lies and fear and innuendos.

Isn't that the Traveler way?

You dishonor the name oathkeeper.

if a simple stolen valor hoaxer can fool you...i wonder what else you have been hoaxed on?

clearly it isn't that difficult.

Mur wrote:like I said...luckily you're not arrogant...spawned by a race of super humans...your ancestors are better than mine...and yet a simple hoaxer fooled you...hahaha

bravo

keep going...this is priceless

Super humans?  Lol, is that what you call the difference between couch potatoes and pro-active?  Geez Mur.  Who fooled who?  The data is still here and in more than one archive both on and offline.  It wasn't rescued after the destruction.  It was completed just under an hour before the final closure by Proboards and took over a week to accomplish.  You have a funny definition of being fooled.

What would I need any proof of your misdeeds for Mur?  My continued satisfaction after contracting Alzheimer's?  No thanks I don't plan on dwelling on you or any of your cohorts that long.

And as usual you misjudge my position in the whole ScA thing.  I supported the right of individuals and groups to present and communicate within a non-disclosure of personal identity agreement, and without molestation.  All of which you violated because you couldn't get any recompense or proof.  So you created your own recompense in the event of exposure.  

I don't care if the guy turned out to be italian mafia fulfilling a card-table dare.  What you did was fundamentally wrong and affected a good many other things you and all the others didn't know about adversely.

Part of this whole big picture thing that you're whining about and saying you're going to walk away from to some other country could have been set on a corrective resolution path back then as part of those things you didn't know about.  And to this day I am fully unaware of any other initiative started to replace those failures.  Which equates to guaranteed hot war on American soil at a point probably nearer than any suspect.

Is that what you were itching to know?  Congrats there it is.  You can never know who is watching or working behind any public scene.  What the public and other players in the mix do and say truly does matter.  But most are too obtuse to bear that in mind.  You don't care.  That's it in a nutshell.  You simply don't care.  And now you're poised to run to someone elses nation where you can be disfunctional there too.

Nice.  

I see nothing has changed with you Mur.

(snip post)

Oops, broke my ankle at a water park.  Things change.  And so too...perspectives.

Mur doesn't hold any importance anymore.  GL in Costa Rica.  And don't forsake G-d.  You'll need G-d there.

Life goes on...

I'm in crutches and an Aircast, foot to knee.  Physician says I'll be walking freely in about 6 weeks.

Jake,

Sorry about your ankle, do take care.  We are overnight in Leadville, CO, returning to Baltimore on Thursday.  

I guess it is almost a miracle that some portions of OM still survive, thanks to Cy and few other dedicated volunteers.  

Are we any closer to a resolution of the UFO enigma than we were, almost eight years ago?  Does it matter?  

I continue to suspect that it does matter, although not necessarily for the reasons embraced by most of us who have followed these phenomena.  

And, yes, there is a conspiracy afoot, but not of the sort most generally believed.  

And who am I to still be making such contrarian pronouncements, after all these years?  Certifiably insane?  Well, the jury may still be out.  A shoe or two remain to be dropped?  How can any phenomenon command such patience?  It has been enough to drive some of us to distraction.  Mur is a case in point.  Yes?

This phenomenon has provided a unique venue for certain kinds of speculation and politics to move forward, despite the many appearances to the contrary. Nay, move forward simply because of the appearances and the cover that all those ambiguities have provided, over so many years. Quick silver? Fools gold?

If you can't track the phenomenon, you track the characters involved. I can't recall who said that. Not too many characters left.

"So he pretended to be insane in their presence; and while he was in their hands he acted like a madman, making marks on the doors of the gate and letting saliva run down his beard."
1 Samuel 21:12-14

Soothing to see that Mur still has a brain and a willingness to think.
"Save me from all my transgressions; do not make me the scorn of fools."
Psalm 39:7-9

Jake Reason wrote:(snip post)

Oops, broke my ankle at a water park.  Things change.  And so too...perspectives.

Mur doesn't hold any importance anymore.  GL in Costa Rica.  And don't forsake G-d.  You'll need G-d there.

Life goes on...

I'm in crutches and an Aircast, foot to knee.  Physician says I'll be walking freely in about 6 weeks.

@ Jake, bummer on the foot!  No fun been there.  I hope the pain eases quickly for it.  Six weeks of forced inactivity would make me a bit nutty.  I'd be chewing on the woodwork by then.

@ Dan, thank you.  You realize you yourself are a big part of the cogs in the wheel here?  

What makes a community?  Why do so many wisemen historically wear seemingly fantastically colored or mismatched clothes full of vibrant strangeness and intricate pattern?  Because those things which glue a people and collective wisdom together is like that...it's colorful, fantastic, and where the diverse thrives.  

I left the house at five a.m. this morning to get to our weekly Toastmasters meeting and the subject of the day was:  passing the buck and the world of the day was Serendipity.  I was thinking of the Serendipity that has allowed us to preserve OMF and how in a real community passing the buck involves something very different than it does typically.  In real community creation and sustenance is a trust to which the members contribute without reserve or hesitation.  Passing the buck is a shared construct not an averted one.

The serendipity is the unexpected or unassuming synchronous living interconnection, natural altruism, acted upon between the members.

This is coherency is what enables the end result.  Thus OMF's continuation is not solely the construct of any one person but rather the compilation of all contributors.  This applies and is true of the mechanics who operate the helm, the posters, and even those in the background who visit read but never chime in.  They too take something away and their presence energizes the moments of pause.  All cogs in the wheel.

Cy

Jake Reason wrote:

I'm in crutches and an Aircast, foot to knee.  Physician says I'll be walking freely in about 6 weeks.

Sounds about right - if you stay off the thing. Don't cheat it. 6-8 is the average. Non-displaced fractures heal much faster.

[quote="Cyrellys"]

Mur wrote:

What would I need any proof of your misdeeds for Mur?  

snip


I see nothing has changed with you Mur.

That's true....it's clear you don't need proof of anything...you are willing to believe anything as long as it suits your views.

You prefer the beautiful (your views) lies to the ugly (opposite your views) truth.

I prefer the truth...even if it's against my views.

You're right...that has not changed with me.

You're wrong...I had nothing to do with the take down of OMF.

Stop lying about it.

You cannot produce any proof I'm involved because you are lying about it.

Stop lying and stop supporting liars....Trish.

You damage legitimate folks credibility.

You were wrong about source a...you're wrong about me.

Admit that you were wrong for once.

But it won't happen...because you are a narcissist of the highest order


An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges CHECK
Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships UNKNOWN
A lack of psychological awareness (see insight in psychology and psychiatry, egosyntonic) UNKNOWN
Difficulty with empathy CHECK
Problems distinguishing the self from others (see narcissism and boundaries) CHECK
Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults (see criticism and narcissists, narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury) CHECK
Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt CHECK
Haughty body language UNKNOWN
Flattery towards people who admire and affirm them (narcissistic supply) CHECK
Detesting those who do not admire them (narcissistic abuse) CHECK
Using other people without considering the cost of doing so CHECK
Pretending to be more important than they really are CHECK AND DOUBLE CHECK
Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements CHECK
Claiming to be an "expert" at many things CHECK
Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people CHECK
Denial of remorse and gratitude CHECK

Any questions?

Jake Reason wrote:(snip post)

Oops, broke my ankle at a water park.  Things change.  And so too...perspectives.

Mur doesn't hold any importance anymore.  GL in Costa Rica.  And don't forsake G-d.  You'll need G-d there.

Life goes on...

I'm in crutches and an Aircast, foot to knee.  Physician says I'll be walking freely in about 6 weeks.

Sorry to hear about your foot...I love water parks.

As far as myself holding importance anymore...I never did hold any....and I don't hold any now either.

I haven't always shown it Jake, but I've respected the words you've typed more that you know.

We are all a part....and we all return

Good Grief Mur, 

You complain about me, and yet you're coming into this forum and portray the very thing you're complaining about.  Like Jake said in not so many words:  "Mur get over it."

Contrary to what you seem to believe, I'm not running around the net yakking about you.  I have better things to do with my life.  Other than your presence here on OMF you're a has been.  What is your malfunction man?  Don't you have a hobby or something?  

Take your psycho-babble and stuff it where the sun don't shine.  It doesn't do you any justice to come in here looking for a fight.  And FYI - I AM ENTITLED TO MY OPINIONS!  And those are not changing.  I don't see you changing Mur.  You can't even acknowledge the part you played because you don't recognize that kind of behavior as unacceptable in civilized society.  You seem to have a craving for causing trouble and then sucking the blood off the floor in every aftermath.  Why would I have a good opinion of you?  For WHAT REASON?!!!  

There is a difference between having enough personal experience with something or someone and maintaining proof after the fact for some sort of posterity's sake.  You ARE NOT WORTH DWELLING ON MUR.  So no I don't maintain anything in the regard of your past behavior.  You don't interest me, you annoy me to no end when you show up, and you never learn!  

Don't you have a job or something?  I have an excuse, I'm retired.  What's your excuse?  Why is it you can't seem to go find something constructive to do?  Instead you waste your life coming in here to take insult shots at me?  Are you seriously that bored with your life?  At least I can say the higher percentage of my time is spent on more worthy matters!  AND THERE IS NOT A SINGLE SOUL ON THIS PLANET WHO COULD SAY OTHERWISE!

Mur you need a different hobby.

Cy

Psalms 94:8 - "Understand, ye brutish among the people: and ye fools, when will ye be wise?"

Mur, and the response to him, are about the only posts that can be understood. The rest is babble about nonsense.

Isaiah 56:10 - "His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber."

Of Mur's good work, He spoke;
Exodus 2:25 - "And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto" Mur.

And one last thing, since you are hell bent on causing public sentiment injury by hurling these insults at me:

Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

 Today at 10:04 am

----

Mur quoted Cyrellys wrote:What would I need any proof of your misdeeds for Mur?  

snip


I see nothing has changed with you Mur.

Mur wrote:That's true....it's clear you don't need proof of anything...you are willing to believe anything as long as it suits your views.

You prefer the beautiful (your views) lies to the ugly (opposite your views)truth.

I prefer the truth...even if it's against my views.

You're right...that has not changed with me.

You're wrong...I had nothing to do with the take down of OMF.

Stop lying about it.

You cannot produce any proof I'm involved because you are lying about it.

Stop lying and stop supporting liars....

You damage legitimate folks credibility.

You were wrong about source a...you're wrong about me.

Admit that you were wrong for once.

But it won't happen...because you are a narcissist of the highest order


An obvious self-focus in interpersonal exchanges CHECK
Problems in sustaining satisfying relationships UNKNOWN
A lack of psychological awareness (see insight in psychology and psychiatry, egosyntonic) UNKNOWN
Difficulty with empathy CHECK
Problems distinguishing the self from others (see narcissism and boundaries) CHECK
Hypersensitivity to any insults or imagined insults (see criticism and narcissists, narcissistic rage and narcissistic injury) CHECK
Vulnerability to shame rather than guilt CHECK
Haughty body language UNKNOWN
Flattery towards people who admire and affirm them (narcissistic supply) CHECK
Detesting those who do not admire them (narcissistic abuse) CHECK
Using other people without considering the cost of doing so CHECK
Pretending to be more important than they really are CHECK AND DOUBLE CHECK
Bragging (subtly but persistently) and exaggerating their achievements CHECK
Claiming to be an "expert" at many things CHECK
Inability to view the world from the perspective of other people CHECK
Denial of remorse and gratitude CHECK

Any questions?

I am not half as stupid as I look Mur.  You're pulling the same crap above that you pulled in the ScA affaire in which you denigrated the person once you had their identity, just because you personally didn't believe the story given, in order to totally ruin the guy's life.  The intent here on your end is what I'm talking about, not the case.  

You did it knowing full well that modern employers utilize the internet to research employment suitability.  So not only did you violate a non-disclosure of identity agreement but you deliberately went after the man in internet forums, articles, internet radio, and social networking in a deliberate drive for recompense outside of any courtroom jury or judge.  Taking matters into your own hands and administering what could be construed in modern terms as a corporal punishment of sorts.  Quite effectively I might add.   Last I heard he could not get any job better than serving coffee.  

And NOW YOU'RE TRYING THE SAME THING ON ME?  Ha ha ha ha!  Like I said Mur, the old fashioned games don't work with me.  I'm RETIRED!  I don't need a job, or an employer. And if I did, I wouldn't bother with employers.  I'd go out and start a business or work as a subcontractor like I did for 90% of my career.  That means I'm not beholden to public sentiments conscripted by a lunatic fringe stalker and twisted into something that couldn't resemble myself, come hell or high water!

You're wasting your time dear.  Like I said, why would I have a good opinion of you?  FOR WHAT REASON?

Show me YOUR PROOF!

Rofl.  Oh that's right, you just did.

Cy

Mur,  

It is apparent that you are much more inclined to settle old scores than to contribute new insights.  

Please, come back when you are in a more helpful mood.  I'm not holding my breath, however.  


Paul Z recommends Information and the Nature of Reality, ed. Paul Davies.  It was helpful for me to read the Amazon reviews.  

The point is made that the mysteries of information permeate all aspects of reality.  The biological and mental aspects can hardly be distinguished from the rest.  Information comes in all guises and contexts.  In as much as it can be defined, it is trivial.  In as much as it is substantive, it cannot be defined. It is a scientific tar-baby.  Many venture in, few venture out.  

In short, information is the modern gateway to immaterialism, IMHO. But, wait, how can information exist w/o matter? But then, how can matter exist w/o information? Where can the line be drawn? This dilemma leads to neutral monism.

Such metaphysical neutrality seems only to deepen the confusion. Kant became lost in his own noumenon. Yes, there is the conscious and the unconscious. Reality (objectivity?) is the thin blue line between those two regimes.

Thin blue line......? This is what the Islamic philosophers refer to as occasionalism. Xians refer to it as love. Chicken Little refers to it as the Eschaton.



(cont.)

(Today will be occupied with my father-in-law's 91st birthday and my son's house settlement, downtown)


But, yes, what does the informational nature of reality have to do with eschatology, pray tell.......?

Am I suggesting that the Earth is just a will-o'-the-wisp that will vanish if God blinks or Atlas shrugs? Yes and no......

What most philosophers have always claimed, with seemingly more or less arrogance, is that appearances can be deceptive and/or that just because the Sun has always risen in the morning is not proof that it will rise tomorrow morning. We can only be fairly sure that it will continue to do so, for the foreseeable future. How much of the future is actually foreseeable remains an open question, even within the scientific community.

We do, though, continue with our daily routines, as best as possible, despite all the uncertainty about the future. We could not get out of bed in the morning, if we did not have a minimal confidence in the predictability of the future, and our continuing ability to cope.

Is Chicken Little trying to subvert human self-confiedence? Does CL want the world to end, as the Pricess suggested, on her radio show, about a month ago?

Yes and no........

.....

Dan wrote:Is Chicken Little trying to subvert human self-confiedence? Does CL want the world to end, as the Pricess suggested, on her radio show, about a month ago?

Yes and no........

Well if the latest chatter in the usual places on the net has any merit, has he moved 200+ miles inland, 1500ft above sea level minimum, away from large population centers, and/or discovered he's on a list for one of the DUMBs?

Scratch the DUMB list and he might have a shot, grin. Whatever it happens to be it'd be better than Puerto Rico or Guatemala, both of which have really active volcanos at the moment.

The minimal confidence in predictability would make a good tangent in the conversation. What if the world ended as we knew it tomorrow but not for everyone? Even in chaos can there be a confidence in predictability to be found?

Cy

From: Dan
Date: August 24, 2013, 9:02:06 AM EDT
To: Sam
Cc:  members of the Baltimore Green Forum planning committee.  
Subject: Re: Sam, suggestion for a program for BGF from NIPS

Sam,

No, we do not need an outsider to come in to tell us how to reorganize.  And, no, we don't need more activism for the sake of being active.  

We only need to recognize that, as Paul clearly states, we are facing an existential crisis, historically unprecedented.  Yes, the environmental movement has failed, uniformly, without exception, to rise to the imminent challenge.  Continuing to 'actively' apply bandages to hemorrhages is not helping the patient.  

We need to follow what is beginning to happen in our Circle of Friends mailing list, wherein, each in our own way, is beginning to ask...... who are we, from whence do we come and whither do we go?  

Until we get clear about these questions, we will simply be the blind leading the blind.  

There have only ever been two answers to the above questions.  Until we understand what those answers must be, by sheer force of logic, we and humanity will remain paralyzed within our existential fog.  

Dan

Cy,

I can only say to you what I am saying to the BGF....... we need to stop playing games and get serious about our existential crisis.  

The crisis is that we dont know who we are or from whence we come.  Your answers to these questions have always had a strongly tribal overtone.  If we are going to survive, we definitely need to transcend our tribalisms.  Yes?  

I'm the only one, Cy, who is presently providing a globally coherent answer to our existential crisis.  Yes?  

Is it then just an accident that I am the only one who is being afforded even a modicum of insider support.  

Everyone on every side of every local and global dispute understands that there will have to be a New World Order.  Yes?  But, of course, we cannot agree on what the shape of that new order will be.

Then we must ask whether we can change the system from within or without.  

The only possible answer is that we need both an internal and external initiative.  The original intent of OMF I was to make straight the way for an external intervention.  In effect, we were volunteering to be the fifth column, preparing the ground for an ET invasion.  It is no wonder that our communications garnered the attention of the PtB.  

And here we are, some sixty years later, still out standing on our little hill, waiting for the Landing.  

Why no Landing?  Have the PtB been able to fight off the ET's, be they good, bad or indifferent?  Have any been shot down lately?  If not, then why this apparent stand-off?  Well, they and the PtB must be waiting for something to happen, down here.  

Yes, we are all still waiting for D-day..... Disclosure day.  

The only question is when and how to make this Disclosure.  Yes?  And, so, I put the question out to you and the other OMers..... when and how?  

The answer, of course, depends on what is to be disclosed.  If, in fact, as I surmise, the disclosure is to be along the lines of the BPWH, as I have been outlining it, for these many years, then we are witnessing right here, at ground zero, the best possible when and how of disclosure.  Certainly, no one has shown up to vouchsafe some other when or how.  

So, how is our driving?  Are we driving in the right direction, at the right speed?  Would you like us to speed up or slow down?  Or are you convinced that our world could never be the BPW?  Seldom does any anyone come forward to critique or discredit the BPWH.  When they do, they last for not more than a day or two.  

Do you want to speed things up?  We have the power to do that, to speed up the BPWH disclosure, but just by my little lonesome, you are seeing me at my best possibly level of performance.  If you are not actively participating, then you must know why ours is not the BPW, or why the time is not perspicuous.  I, the Visitors and the PtB can only respect your judgment on this matter.  

Are there any other focus groups around?  There probably are, but this is the only one that really counts.  No?  


10:30---------

Yes, I agree that there is still a considerable level of implausibility wrt the BPWH.  If the cosmic PtB would lift a finger, they could increase the level of plausibility to almost any desired level, but not without a considerable threat to the Prime Directive.  There is a trade off, here.  What we see is an ongoing balancing act wrt the PD.  

From: Dan
Date: August 24, 2013, 11:46:25 AM EDT
To:  Bridget
Subject: Re: from the wikipage on gnosticism….(and NB "public builder" = mason)

I believe that the reason why there is so much evil and suffering on Earth is because we are special.  This could not be an average planet, if there were any sort of beneficent intelligence.  That intelligence would and could intervened more positively and definitively.  

What then is special about the Earth?  There are many theories about this, gnosticism provides at least one of those theories as to why the Almighty is so standoffish.  Well, but, when I try to summarize gnosticism, it just doesn't make sense.  It is mashup of theism and pantheism that makes no pretense of being coherent.  Like pantheism generally, gnosticism is generally a very private affair.  There is felt to be very little need to communicate about it.  Theorizing is given a very low priority, when one is on the path.  

Theorizing has historically been the province of theism, in general, and of its Xian version, in particular.  There are rational reasons why this process of rationalization has fallen peculiarly to this one particular version of theism.  

But, then, it is a bit strange why I should be the only one actively putting forward a coherent worldview.  But that strangeness can also be rationalized, upon further reflection.  Reflection is my stock in trade.  

For very clear historical reasons, a vacuum has developed in the tradition of coherentism or idealism.......


(cont......)

From: Dan
Date: August 24, 2013, 3:02:51 PM EDT
To: Gary Gripp
Cc: 50 others on an environmental mail list.
Subject: Coming to grips with our human dilemma....

Right about at this point, any attempt to continue a rational discussion of population comes to a logical juncture..........

1.) Humans are rational, or.......

2.) Humans are not rational.

If humans are rational, then, yes, we have been separated from the rest of nature, which, other than with us, has no truck with sapience.

Then it would seem that our extra intelligence is our ultimate curse, or, as Craig Dilworth has put it, we are Too Smart for our Own Good.

If we wish to come to grip(p)s with our human dilemma, we must then reconsider the point of our apparent departure from the non-sapience of the rest of Nature, and, here again, there are two views.........

1a.) Our special status within nature is something noteworthy, or....

2a.) Our special status is an illusion or just a fluke of nature.

IOW, if we are going to appeal to human intelligence, as a possible antidote to the population problem, then we must necessarily take that intelligence as something more than an illusion.

These two choices, 1 & 1a, commit us then to a supra-scientific or a metaphysical approach to our human dilemma. Science is a product of our special status, but it can, by only adhering to a mechanistic view of the world, offer no special insight as to how we might come to grips with our singular dilemma.

Science can, indeed, measure the extent of our depredation of the Earth, but it cannot foster any appeal to our sense of values, or offer any vision of how or why the future course of humanity might be drastically altered. Any such new paradigm is beyond the province of our modern, scientific worldview.

That we must transcend that scientific view in order to find an antidote to our technology induced crisis is an observation that is, at once, both trivial and profound. Are we not prepared to rise to that challenge?

(cont.)

Original quote by Dan from above, with my comments in Red interspersed:

Dan wrote:Cy,

I can only say to you what I am saying to the BGF....... we need to stop playing games and get serious about our existential crisis.

I for one have never played games about our existential crisis. I'm aware of the crisis on a scale beyond even many intellectuals working aspects of the various components of the problem.

For one point, I happen to hold the opinion that the biggest issue with the environmental movement (and yes I've spent some time with some of the groups out there when I lived in Oregon to investigate what was going on for myself) is that there is almost entirely too much activism and not enough simple living the culture. The activism end of it turns away many many people who would espouse much of the culture and ideals. Being a culture does not require a corptocracy with this or that named group doing this or that project. But an uninvolved hiker who walks through the mountains and encounters one of the tree cities by accident, for example, and witnesses the sustainable living in action might find himself intrigued enough to consider adopting some or many of the same practices if practical...but go activist on the man and he feel under siege and flees and all he seen is now colored with a negativity. See what I mean?

With regards to the environmental culture much I myself like and agree with, but I have my objections as well such as the eugenics portion of the movement now cloaked in the more sophisticated circles under the heading of "population stabilization" to make its objectives and methods both current and propsed which have never changed, more palatable to the under informed.

The crisis is that we dont know who we are or from whence we come. Your answers to these questions have always had a strongly tribal overtone. If we are going to survive, we definitely need to transcend our tribalisms. Yes?

I disagree with this above. I know perfectly well who I am and from whence I come. And if I sound tribal at times it is not from being wholly tribal but rather to interject long held principles which propose or hold to a clearly defined limit of conduct in the process of change.

I'm the only one, Cy, who is presently providing a globally coherent answer to our existential crisis. Yes?

Again, no I perceive many people, too many to name working on a globally coherent answer to the crisis and aspects of the crisis. You are one niche with a select type of audience. Each out there are working a corner of the proverbial tetrahedron. Few are interconnecting with each other.

The collective exhibits a severe form of disconnect and each believes it is the only version or effort in existence. In the best tradition of a military working group it can be said of each, "you/we only know what we know." There is a myopia to be found in each, is my experience. I do think you are doing a remarkable job of networking among groups within your reach.

Is it then just an accident that I am the only one who is being afforded even a modicum of insider support.

There are other insider groups out there. Each seems to have its own preferences and champions. Did you see the latest post in my blog at the bottom of the forum index where I replied to MD02? There are two links in it at the bottom of the post. The one which discusses Anonymous is the most pertinent to what I have said as an example.

Everyone on every side of every local and global dispute understands that there will have to be a New World Order. Yes? But, of course, we cannot agree on what the shape of that new order will be.

Change and improvement is not the same as a New World Order. And there is more than one defined path. The current coordinated NWO carries a darkness that moves even the Universal Source to engage in opposition.

Then we must ask whether we can change the system from within or without.

Yes I would agree with this question above. That is currently being discussed in an immense number of venues and cross cultural divides.

The only possible answer is that we need both an internal and external initiative. The original intent of OMF I was to make straight the way for an external intervention. In effect, we were volunteering to be the fifth column, preparing the ground for an ET invasion. It is no wonder that our communications garnered the attention of the PtB.

This you say about OMF I would entirely agree with.

And here we are, some sixty years later, still out standing on our little hill, waiting for the Landing.

Well you cant do anything about the different groups of ETs with their own cultures, standards for initiating open interaction, and their own brands of procrastination. It's like you can't do anything about having a BBQ Block Party but only three out 23 neighbors show up after you spent hundreds on the food and preps. The only thing you can do is go through with the set up and get the smell of sizzling steaks into the air and cross your fingers. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Its all a proverbial crap shoot.

And then there is the fact that you only see a part of the big scene because you are smack in the middle of the fray participating and you simply can't see the whole thing; not humanly possible...but not for the lack of trying!

ET looks on humanity as a whole and it is easier for them to play with the thermometer - is the roast done yet? Nah, those guys over there are still oozing blood. And the ones over their have their heads stuffed in the sand.

Why no Landing? Have the PtB been able to fight off the ET's, be they good, bad or indifferent? Have any been shot down lately? If not, then why this apparent stand-off? Well, they and the PtB must be waiting for something to happen, down here.

They are waiting for something to happen down here...trouble is that war, famine, and mayhem is an everyday affliction down here and no one bats and eyelash at it. It will take a real catalyst to distract a planet from its daily dose of dysfunction. Some ETs don't want the headache or the responsibility (take your pick which, most likely a good measure of both - we know something of what this is like, or at least we should after Afganistan and Iraq - where we swooped in on a "pretense" of intervention, we then proceeded to follow through with 'nation-building' whereas others might not - ET might not. ET might hit and run. Intervene; shock and awe, then leave 'em standing dumbfounded with their thumbs in their mouths till it suddenly sinks in and everyone goes bug-nuts trying to clean house because we got caught with our pants down looking like a pig-sty and smelling a good deal worse /read - corruption/ ).

Yes, we are all still waiting for D-day..... Disclosure day.

So who is the worse procrastinators? ET or us for not getting our act together? I don't know how many Patriots I've spoken with, who said yes that's nice ET plans on doing that but we're busy trying to figure out how to clean house and ET is a luxury that just never shows at the party even if a place was set for them, so why make any assumptions that have such terrible odds? And then they go on about their current business. ET is a novelty, that isn't active in this paradigm as far as they are concerned and until ET gets THEIR act together such individuals and groups won't waste any energy on them. Its not that they don't know. It's that ET acts like ET don't know they know. That's the door bell ET and your hand ain't broke!

The only question is when and how to make this Disclosure. Yes? And, so, I put the question out to you and the other OMers..... when and how?

Anytime you like and in any way you like. Just non-destructive, non-hostile toward any interested party and respecting the inalienable rights - pun intended. Some things are universal. Right?

The majority of people don't mind adding to the big story. At least as long as the presenters don't come busting in their doors violating 4th Amendment, mouth-mashing journalists, strip-searching parents and elderly on the highways or outlawing weapons and gun culture that is an integral part of who we are. Leave the sacred cows in Peace and Ye Shall Have Peace in your paradigm! Or at least you have a fighting chance at Peace - again pun intended. You do realize that right now ALL OF THOSE ON MY LIST above is currently going on? Not a good start to this. Stop the improper conduct, take a team of bulldozers and demolition experts and make a scene tearing down FEMA camps and guillotines and you'll send the message that you intend to do this the right way finally; instead of half-ass backwards.

The answer, of course, depends on what is to be disclosed. If, in fact, as I surmise, the disclosure is to be along the lines of the BPWH, as I have been outlining it, for these many years, then we are witnessing right here, at ground zero, the best possible when and how of disclosure. Certainly, no one has shown up to vouchsafe some other when or how.

At this point it doesn't matter what is to be disclosed - History Channel with their Ancient Aliens Series and various UFO history series is well over three years ahead of you. The Exopolitics and Ufology Community with their Press event this year is WAY AHEAD of you too. The only thing you will do at this point is add to the story hopefully in some coherent and cogent way without the usual fun and psy-op games for once. Remember the terms "clear" and "concise" and you should be ok. No half-ass efforts or talking out the side of your mouth with a hammer poised behind your back.

So, how is our driving? Are we driving in the right direction, at the right speed? Would you like us to speed up or slow down? Or are you convinced that our world could never be the BPW? Seldom does any anyone come forward to critique or discredit the BPWH. When they do, they last for not more than a day or two.

Speed up...it's been the slower than sludge pace that has gotten everyone into so much trouble on both sides of the chasm. Just lay it all out on the table and let everyone go at it with forks and talk about the contents, paradigm, and courses available...or creation of something that seems most agreeable to everyone.

I don't know if I would ever describe Earth as the Best Possible World - at least at this point....I've been told it has POTENTIAL! I would not neglect something that has potential.

Do you want to speed things up? We have the power to do that, to speed up the BPWH disclosure, but just by my little lonesome, you are seeing me at my best possibly level of performance. If you are not actively participating, then you must know why ours is not the BPW, or why the time is not perspicuous. I, the Visitors and the PtB can only respect your judgment on this matter.

This is the first time you've ever spoken about this in clear terms. No one can respond in clear terms if you hem and haw around the bush all the time. I've always been an active participant Dan, in more ways than one. But you never seemed to notice. You were too busy interpreting guidelines for civilized conduct as TRIBALISM.

Are there any other focus groups around? There probably are, but this is the only one that really counts. No?

LOL, no comment


10:30---------

Yes, I agree that there is still a considerable level of implausibility wrt the BPWH. If the cosmic PtB would lift a finger, they could increase the level of plausibility to almost any desired level, but not without a considerable threat to the Prime Directive. There is a trade off, here. What we see is an ongoing balancing act wrt the PD.

I've never had an issue with the PD of the Greater Community with one exception....the conduct of the Grey Group which thinks it can take the permission of one group of humans to serve to cause violation and offense on another group depicts them as either extremely ignorant or disingenuous. It will be topic on the table for much of the public. In the same vein the differences between the Grey Group and Other groups out there should be clearly defined so that at all times we can know who is speaking, to whom something can be attributed, and what the rules of play is for different groups beyond Earth or beyond our current kenning for comparison to our rules of fair or unfair play. This is the foundation for beginning the formulation of opinions which eventually lead through discussion to some sort of consensus.

Cy

From: Dan
Date: August 25, 2013, 7:14:22 AM EDT
To: Steven Earl Salmony
Cc: 55 others........
Subject: Re: Regarding Population Messaging, Exactly What is the Problem?

Steve et al.........

Exactly what is the problem........?

Ok, I'll tell you exactly what the problem is........

Are We a Cancer, or Are We a Chrysalis?  

Until you can deeply address this question in your own minds, not one of you has any business telling anybody what to do about anything.  

I can guess who most of you are.  I also have a pretty good estimate of where you think you are coming from, and where you think you are going.  

I can say, with some ease, that I am the only theist on this list of fifty and change.  

I also know that about 98% of the audience you are attempting to address are also theists of one sort or another, at least much more so than any other ones of you.  

Hey, guys and gals...... do the math, and then tell me whether you truly wish to go out into the world to tell those 98% of your audience that they are a Cancer on the World

If any one of you is able to do the math, then let's you and me have a little talk about the birds and the bees.  

I trust that a few of you will get the gist of my message, and, taking it to heart, will wish to discuss the bottom line of human existence.  

I thank you for your patience, in advance.......

Dan

From: Dan
Date: August 25, 2013, 7:57:02 AM EDT
To: Bridget
Subject: Re: from the wikipage on gnosticism….(and NB "public builder" = mason)

(cont.......)


The tremendous success of science and of its analytical approach to observing the world have rendered all but the analytic forms of philosophy obsolete.  

I engage in the supposedly obsolete forms of thinking about the world. There are a very few others of us, such as Chris Langan, who engage in this kind of thinking on a global basis.  
---------

The above, I wrote yesterday, and have since become involved in two other conversations.  

What I am saying to these other is that humanity is rapidly approaching the crucial juncture of our existence.  We are not unlike the lab rat on the wired platform being forced to choose between door A and door B.  This is not a comfortable position to be in.  The rats usually die of ulceritis.  

My side of these conversations, including this one, are being copied to my forum blog......

https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t113p645-hello-cy-omf-ii-part-2#3584

and then I'll be heading to my evangelical church, in about an hour, after responding to Cy, on OM.  

Cy,

Speed up, you say.......

Well, Ok, then, Godspeed........!

About the Greys and the PtB......?  

Yes, there are bad actors on both sides of the terrestrial divide.  But, guess what, would we have ever gotten this far if the Bad guys were really in charge of human development?  

In my conversation with Bridget, you see my attempt at communicating with a serious gnostic, wherein the Earth is viewed as a prison planet.  Of course, there is some deep truth in this widely held view, but, also of course, it is not the whole truth.  

The whole truth is that the bars on our prison are comprised of our own ignorance, an ignorance or forgetfulness in which we have been fully complicit.  Yes, God only has to lift a finger, once in a while, in order to hold us to our dispensational or covenental naiveté.

And, by this same token, Cy, God has only to lift another finger in order to initiate our mutual Revelation.  I attempt to be that final finger of fate.  I gather, then, that you are game for this.  

From: Dan
Date: August 25, 2013, 8:44:59 AM EDT
To: Paul Z
Subject: update........


https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t113p645-hello-cy-omf-ii-part-2#3584 and a couple of the previous posts.......

As you see, physics, per se, will probably play a minor role is what is transpiring......

Nonetheless, Jack remains a prime target. I need you, Bridget and David to help me do an intervention with Jack [Sarfatti]. That can and should be our prime focus.

..........

Thank you, Dan, Cy and MD for your kind wishes.