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Where did all the Open Minds Forum members go?

Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:29 pm by Admin

With Open Minds Forum restored now for almost half a year at it's new location with we can now turn to look at reaching out to OMF's original members who have not yet returned home. OMF's original membership was over 6,000 members strong, prior to the proboards suspension, according to the rolls of the time. We can probably safely assume that some of those accounts were unidentified socks. If we were to assume a reasonable guess of maybe as many as 30% possible sock accounts then that would leave potentially somewhere between 4800 to 4900 possible real members to locate. That is still a substantial number of people.

Who were all these people? Some were average individuals with common interests in ufology, exopolitics, globalism, corruption, earthchanges, science and technology, and a variety of other interests. Some just enjoyed being part of a vibrant and unusually interesting community. Others were representative of various insider groups participating in observation and outreach projects, while still others were bonafide intelligence community personnel. All with stake in the hunt for truth in one fashion or another. Some in support of truth, and communication. Others seeking real disclosure and forms of proof. And others highly skeptical of anything or limited subjects. The smallest division of membership being wholly anti-disclosure oriented.

So where did these members vanish to? They had many options. There are almost innumerable other forums out there on the topics of UFO's or Exopolitics, the Unexplained, and Conspiracy Theory. Did they disappear into the world-wide network of forum inhabitants? Did some go find new homes on chatrooms or individual blogs? Did they participate in ufo conventions or other public events and gatherings? How about those who represented groups in special access? Or IC and military observers? Those with academic affiliations? Where did they all go and what would be the best way to reach out and extend an invitation to return?

And what constitutes a situation deserving of their time and participation? Is the archive enough? How exactly do people within the paradigm most desire to define a community? Is it amenities, humanity or simply population size for exposure? Most of the special guests have been emailed and have expressed that population size for exposure is what most motivates them. But not all. Long-time member Dan Smith has other priorities and values motivating his participation. Should this open opportunities for unattached junior guests who have experience and dialog to contribute to the world? How best to make use of OMF's time, experience and resources?

Many skeptics would like to see the historical guardian of discourse opportunity to just up and disappear; go into permanent stasis. They think that not everyone has a right to speak about their experiences and if there is no proof involved then there can philosophically be no value to discourse. I personally would respectfully disagree with them. Discourse has always been the prelude to meaningful relationships and meaningful mutual relationships have always been the prelude to exchanges of proof. In a contentious social environment with regards to communication vs disclosure how do we best re-establish a haven for those preludes? Is it only the "if we build it they will come" answer? Well considering OMF has been largely fully functional over the last four or five months this line of reasoning is not necessarily true. So what would be the best way re-establish this? Your suggestions are sought. Please comment.

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The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz


Posts : 586
Join date : 2012-03-15
Location : West Rising

The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Admin on Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

(Thread Post Setup on Behalf of GarzParz, Enjoy!)

GARZPARZ: Morality is a just a shadow of right action. Right action isn’t the highest degree of morality any more than agapè is the highest degree of love. When you understand and are able to act from right action, morality is no longer necessary; it’s instantly obsolete and discarded.

This is at the heart of the Bhagavad Gita.

Arjuna, as a moral creature, throws down his weapon and refuses to launch a war.

As he, I threw my arms down and refused to fight.

Krishna converts him to a creature of right action by freeing him from delusion and Arjuna takes up his weapon and launches the war.

This is what I have realized also. I found a sword inside as well. I’m at war now, not within. I’m not always nice and peaceful. Of course it is a story always happening. Right action has nothing to do with right or wrong, good or evil, naughty or nice. It is without altruism or compassion. Morality is the set of rules and regulations that you use to navigate through life when you’re still trying to steer your ship rather than let it follow the flow.

Go with the flow always, you can’t fight it. I am overcome.

Happiness, Compassion are dream concepts for an ego trying to realize itself, but self can’t know no-self.

I would make a good assassin with this understanding, no thanks Wink

The owl of this world loves to live in the ruins of love.” - Polynation - Sufi I song

ADMIN NOTE: See more of Garzparz posts at Dan Smiths thread. Special Guest Forum.

"This is an indeterminite problem. How shall I solve it? Pessimistically? Or optimistically? Or a range of probabilities expressed as a curve, or several curves?..........Well.....we're Loonies. Loonies bet. Hell, we have to! They shipped us up and bet us we couldn't stay alive. We fooled 'em. We'll fool 'em again!" Robert Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:07 am

“Zen says that if you drop knowledge--and within knowledge everything is included, your name, your identity, everything, because this has been given to you by others--if you drop all that has been given by others, you will have a totally different quality to your being--innocence. This will be a crucifixion of the persona, the personality, and there will be a resurrection of your innocence; you will become a child again, reborn.”

— Osho Dang Dang Doko Dang, Chapter 7

Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:54 pm


By seeing all the way through
things we are able to perceive
the perfection of existence. The
foreground of mind is noisy chatter,
but by simply watching that with
discipline and perseverance, we
see it quiet. In its place arises a vast,
silent, illuminated emptiness.

So also with life.
The foreground is rife with
suffering and difficulty,
but by doing not-doing and
quietly observing, we
become aware of its purity.

— Wei Wu Wei

Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:35 pm

Stoic minute...

In this lazy age of sensation, fear, ego, greed and AI looming to gobble us up, I reach back to the wise who saw through things. I reach into myself and I find firm ground.

Give way to nothing else beyond yourself.

Stand firm bending when you need to.

"If you find in human life anything better than justice, truth, temperance, [and] fortitude,

. . . turn to it with all your soul, and enjoy that which you have found to be best.

But if nothing appears to you better than the divinity planted within you,

. . . give way to nothing else."

-- Marcus Aurelius - Meditations - Book III

I don’t know about divinity. I can’t make a distinction here now. It is said that perhaps death is a transition into a world without sensation, what do we care about that as Humans?

Sounds like hell from a Human perspective, what do we know or care of such things here and now?

I do not.

Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:58 pm

So...what now? I have dismantled the cartoon world, examined it.

So as unreal as this is, here I am.

So whom can one be after destroying the cartoon avatar?

What will I do now that I have seen the futility of action and fighting it?

This desert may be fake, but it’s where we are.

I may be fiction, but this is who I am now.

Chasing the bird gives my life dramatic movement, but it is folly.

I can be bored in Truth or engaged in a lie.

Is option 3 possible, to escape it all?

Take all that outward energy chasing birds and focus it within.

Break out of character or die trying.

So here I am.

I was a coyote dreaming he was a man and I removed my coyote costume to reveal something yet more.

Even if there is no beyond this cartoon, at least I am not lost in the desert or wasting my time chasing birds.

If life is a lie, you have nothing to lose denying an empty part in a drama you didn’t write.

What is the core message or essence of this plot...

So what is the core message of Adam and Eve?

It is about the transition from silence to awareness.

We left the garden.

They find suffering and death.

Knowledge illuminates things and they feel shame about their nakedness.

But the story doesn’t stop there.

Jesus said the lamp of the body is the eye, when your body is good, you are full of light.

Good and evil are light and darkness.

We are Awareness.

Is ego original sin?

It is of the dream state.

Atman and Maya are not the bad guys.

Wholly full of light is awakening from the dream.

The Apple is the key of the creation myth, the transition.

Gen 1 Nature is created...bored...Ken and Barbie show up hobbled with irrational emotion.

Ego is the appearance of imperfection that gives rise to conflict and drama, no more boring dream.

So Adam and Eve become aware of their meaningless, being naked and this gives rise to fear and then you have imperfect ego and now the stage is set.

Full spectrum of emotion.

This almost makes sense.


Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:20 pm

It’s funny how much conflict raises up in the ego world when you let your Awarensss roam free.

I do enjoy certain aspects of it.

I see how easily it is to adopt a belief.

Belief is such a strange thing.


Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:47 pm

Eye of the Heart

What a mystery it is. It vibrates like stars colliding from the black hole soul within. It drives us on, that feeling we just don’t quite fit here now. You can feel the artificiality of time. Everting I write now is from the heart and things my heart has led me to, my mind does not lead. I have no belief to be led blindly by. One could call me an existential nihilist, a spiritual terrorist. I like talking about reality and pointing out our bullshit beliefs and errant thinking leading us into delusional unmaintainable empty lives. Doesn’t make me friends.

I’m a friend to all Humanity and I meet each as such. We are One together here in nature whether we accept it or not.

Anyone not living in their hearts will hate your heart words. They will spew you out of their mouths. The heart is a veil hiding and I feel protecting us from the Truth of life.

For you to discover if you feel so led, most do not, they are satisfied with their senses and settle for illusions instead of Truth.

Truth is boring.

If you like your beliefs, keep em, they do no one any good though. I don’t recommend pursuing enlightenment or saying anything about it if you realize it. No one will understand you or believe you especially if they hold strong personal beliefs. Your realizations in the end are for you alone. They will fear or kill you, hate will rise against you. People will have violent reactions to you if you are being authentic. Some will embrace you, but none of that matters. It’s all total delusion and distraction. Meaningless non-sense what anyone else thinks about you. Ignore them completely if you are true to your heart.

People live mostly automatically because of the desire of their eyes. From the heart, life has a different rhythm completely.

Thoughts are like fire, to set them free is to leave scorched earth, which doesn’t make you many friends.

Stop seeing things in other people and realize yourself if you are so motivated.

Then don’t listen to anyone holding you back. You will find only you omg held yourself back all this time or maybe you found an integrated life, good for you and us. Overcome yourself and you will win your prize at the end of knowledge, peace profound and then you will laugh at all who would argue with you.

Image - Two neutron Stars colliding.


Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:04 pm

Interesting...catching up.

This was queued up.


Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:22 pm

The Terror of History

Eliade asks in his work how modern man can "tolerate the catastrophes and horrors of history—from collective deportations and massacres to atomic bombings—if beyond them he can glimpse no sign, no transhistorical meaning”.

The sacred and profane. The real and surreal and unreal. Modernity has turned its back on the sacred. A secularism has taken hold. Today humanity creates its own value and purpose.

Relativism and nihilism prevail in an age where Humanity cuts its ties to the sacred. In the age of dawning AI this seems a disasteretous conjunction where Humanity could lose itself in its own metanarrative.

This age of anxiety is the result of the loss of the sacred. The terror of history may be yet overcome by looking back to how cultures did this. Hinduism denies human history as real for example, avoiding historical terror. Historical time is not true time to the Hindu. The existentialist may argue man is defined by our temporality, we are History. Eliade below describes an existentialist view of Hinduism:

“You are asking me, then, to give up my authentic existence and to take refuge in an abstraction, in pure Being, in the atman: I am to sacrifice my dignity as a creator of History in order to live an a-historic, inauthentic existence, empty of all human content. Well, I prefer to put up with my anxiety: at least, it cannot deprive me of a certain heroic grandeur, that of becoming conscious of, and accepting, the human condition.”

Eliade notes that according to Hinduism, history is a divine creation, and one may live contentedly within it as long as one maintains a certain degree of detachment from it: "One is devoured by Time, by History, not because one lives in them, but because one thinks them real and, in consequence, one forgets or undervalues eternity."

He suggests suffering and death can be viewed in a bigger sacred context. Stoicism I feel acknowledges the same abstractions as Hinduism and offers a way to live detached in the Western world. Like Zen, Stoicism is a go with the flow way of living. Good tools to reboot the mind out of time and space.

Ancient cultures integrated suffering and symbolic death into their initiation rituals as rights of passage. Life can be seen as initiation into higher orders of being. Eliade believed there could be a western spiritual rebirth triggered through encounters with other cultures and traditions, “genuine encounters”.

I personally took this very path to reestablish the sacred in my life. I connected with ancient cultures and enacted the old rituals and I received a response. I have reestablished a connection to the Truth.

I come from an Evangelical background and I am accused recently of ‘talking down’ to people with an evangelical zeal. The Truth is a revelation I will confess I enjoy discussing and experiencing as an innocent child. I simply have shared my wonder from knowing. They see very little. I don’t see them living out or acknowledging these things. I don’t see them writings or working it out. I only hear questions and criticisms of my brash abrasive style. So few with this connection to the sacred. It’s a precious thing, but does it matter if it’s a dream?

Well, that’s what I have been exploring as a Human Being. What are the implications of this kind of thinking and reestablishing our sacred connection to the Real? I’m finding out. I’m living it out as a journal of how to move from profane to sacred living.

The sacred events are not limited to a far-off primordial age, but continue throughout history: "time is no longer [only] the circular Time of the Eternal Return; it has become linear and irreversible Time". Eliade describes Christianity as a linear religion based in history.

Myths reveal timeless truth. When God is born as a man, into the stream of history, "all history becomes a theophany". According to Eliade, "Christianity strives to save history". In Christianity, the Sacred enters a human being (Christ) to save humans, but it also enters history to "save" history and turn otherwise ordinary, historical events into something "capable of transmitting a trans-historical message".

I think Dan feels as Eliade about Christianity. Modern mythologists have been our modern day Gnostics pointing to Truth outside of time. Eliade wanted an eternal return, it drives his work in exile from his home country of Romania. One must be careful of nostalgia. Mythologist and metaphysicists can’t help being nostalgic in an age where God is dead replaced by machines.

I have been playing around with meaninglessness. I suppose whether I admit it or not, I allow the abstraction of above and below to give me freedom from existential terror, because I know I am more than I appear to be. I experienced that awareness in myself. I took a crazy road out of the delusions of culture and religious narrative. Am I free? Have I reached escape velocity? Who knows, it is happening as I write, where it leads in time I cannot say.

But I feel connected to the same singularity still happening allowing our awareness. Life keeps me grounded in the dirt very literally these days. Humbling. I’m working out a way to live in these crazy times of terror. The past has hints how to be here now, but we are moving back to something as with a circle, this I know.

Not all myth has an eternal return. Eliade is criticized for generalizations. There are gaps secular researchers can’t follow or jump I see due to his high spiritual clarity. He provides a good foundation for comparative religious studies. I’m enjoying his book Shamanism.

Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:06 pm

The end of history will be as creative as it’s appearing.

What story ends history?

Since 2000 it does seem we have crossed a threshold.

Ironically, how it ends isn’t so important to me as how to live in this place day to day.

Could Disclosure ever be as hyperreal as Close Encounters?

The Simulacra’s realism is primary.

History has already ended, the narrative now comes first.

What can we know real about any non-local events?

It could literally all be staged?

At least the big events.

If the passion play holds, Trump will be called to account soon.

Or the nightmare phase begins where nothing appearing is real as we occilate between meaningless simulacras.

Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:37 am

Funny how things come to you.


Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:52 pm

Keep it simple stupid...


“Traditional wisdom is profoundly based on observation. That means that the ancients accepted things as they were, and rarely speculated on metaphysical reasons why. There are no theories as to why there is illness, or bad people, or calamity. They are simply accepted as a fact of life.

The most they speculated about was the effect of the environment on people in the form of the Five Phases. Or they might have thought of Change. Or Tao. Or spirits. If there was something wrong, they didn’t think that a person was a broken machine. They only spoke of an imbalance with nature.

And why is that the important? Sometimes we need to remember to begin from wholeness. Sometimes we need to remember that we are a part of this world and remember that everything is tied together. Often, there are no single causes: we’re observing the complicated movements of a massive system.

How do we understand that? We have to observe.”

— Deng Ming-Dao

Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:29 pm

if you write a book
with few words
it will be a short book
i’ll need a good hook
it’s sure to be a hit
witty and clever
whatever I say
will drip like may


Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:03 am

My brother sent me this. I have experience with breath work, but I did a lot of drawing mandalas. My art was very important to connect to the sacred/subtle in my life. Giving visualization to the deep cognitive images helped to clarify them.

And synchronistically the images lead to other subtle threads. I have an active indoctrination under way where I am teaching myself through image and word from deep intuitive expressions.

Sometimes for me entheogens like THC, DMT and LSD were involved, not all times. I feel strongly nature has given us these substances to experience other non-dual states of being.

I was spiritually naive like the 14 year old boy. I knew nothing of the ancient mysteries. But I experienced mystical union on Ayauasca. I saw many mythopoetic images and info that led me to subtle things in life I had no previous knowledge of.

That was the most incredible thing about my experiences the last 4 years, receiving spontaneous understanding and knowledge, it happens due to subtle awareness and it gets stronger the more you exercise the subtle muscle.

Last edited by garzparz on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total

Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:31 am


We are part of a massive connected system with subtle and gross aspects. We all know the gross side of life very well in our waking lives perceived through our senses. Then there is a subtle side of life that is more intuitive than sensual. Most human beings are not aware of non-visual aspects of life consciously, but I assure you they do exist.

Now imagine there was an opposite side to the sensual world you live in invisible to most Humans only believing in their sense input. The subtle side of life is more like Alice in Wonderland and to get there you indeed must find the white rabbit and follow it down the hole.

This hole connects the subtle and gross aspects of life. They are not better or worse than each other.
Our view today is occluded. We have so many competing ideas, you almost literally have to stop and drop out and reboot your mind.

I used art to find and connect to the subtle, as will as Tarot and the I Ching. Everything in your life you realize has two sides, a subtle and gross. So consider both.

So what? Enjoy life as you like, I am simply mentioning, there is another side not dependent on your beliefs or senses and awareness of this subtle side can enrich and challenge your mundane life, because beliefs don’t work in the subtle world, magic does. There are maps inside human Beings that can be found and studied as well. Interesting, no?

Image - a mystagogue, a mythical alchemical teacher of the subtle world. Human teachers become these on Death Wink


Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:58 am


Pause to consider the widespread
degree to which people prefer chasing
fame and fortune to refining their
understanding of the Way. The evidence
is that status and riches make people
more insecure and frantic, not less,
but do they examine this?

The wise person does, and acts accordingly.
She divests herself of unnecessary
possessions and abandons frenetic activity.
With her quiet mind and untroubled
heart, she is at home anywhere
in the universe wearing a patched robe.

— Wei Wu Wei

Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:42 pm

For the last year I have been the contrarion’s contrarion, not planned, questioning the very fabric of space-time. I haven’t made any friends. I pissed people off, which is not maybe the most effective strategy. I may need this skill later, but it felt right at the time.  

I may be delusional, but I believe I have been pierced by the Truth of meaningless and death will be a welcome rest, but I don’t want to die, though I don’t fear death at all. When I’m done on Earth, I’m very much looking forward to it.

So let’s see what happens being helpful. I see you must help people where they are. As my chosen metaphor for life is Dreamscape, this means I need to go with the flow of their dream, illusory or not, to start. There need be no arguing of the meaning of things, you can show them how to live and flow in a world of fact as a dream and a thought.

As always, I will trust my heart in the moment as far as what to say, but man, did I piss some people off knocking over or threatening to knock over their apple cart. Truthfully, their frustration was theirs, but I did enjoy the negative aspect of their frustration, because I know becoming aware of your anger’s source, can lead you to realization, if that’s the only thing that will help, anything is on the table to facilitate realization.

And I came across many, who thought themselves realized, but they were only filling themselves with other stories and abstractions. I could see it clearly, but could not verbally communicate it well to them. Should I even bother telling someone who thinks they aren’t, that are indeed full of shit? This is where riddles, meditation, etc can help. I really think you should pick a path and be diligent with it. You have to be a true believer in something or nothing. No heat, no drive, no motivation to look.

Anyway, it takes practice to learn to communicate in a subtle way with people. Sometimes making them mad is a way to show them what they know gives them no peace, so what good is it?

I’m not as dumb as I look, but I’m still pretty dumb, I’m Human Wink

Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:26 am

Our leaders are of the lowest quality, because our appearance is of a very low quality.

In Truth, being Human is the tops.

We covered ourselves in our own shit and cried out for someone to help us.

Do we need help?

We can only help ourselves.

Is anyone really here?

Yes, something here is appearing.

Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:33 am


To realize the Way you must die
and stay dead and go on living.
With one mighty blow, sever the
attachments of mind and self and
dwell in emptiness.

Pouring emptiness into emptiness
like waves coming to shore, you
become quiet, luminous, still.

Where before there were ten
thousand entanglements,
now there is undifferentiated
Oneness, clarity, peace.

- Wei Wu Wei

Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:42 am

Mastering Yourself

"If you can master nonsense as well as you have already learned to master sense, then each will expose the other for what it is: absurdity. From that moment of illumination, a man begins to be free regardless of his surroundings. He becomes free to play order games and change them at will. He becomes free to play disorder games just for the hell of it. He becomes free to play neither or both. And as the master of his own games, he plays without fear, and therefore without frustration, and therefore with good will in his soul and love in his being."


Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Fri Dec 01, 2017 9:32 am

Masking the Void

I have deconstructed myself because I saw through myself. Our personalities mask a Void.

The Void....

Many mystic traditions describe the void and how we interact with it at our lowest levels of cognition. Compared to religious views, I have found the mystic experience the most authentic. That’s a direct experience with the Void. It really is what this thing called life is about. We wear a mask of personality to hide ourselves, but why? We all seem to have this void in us driving us crazy or into bliss. This is our common shared experience.

For myself, I saw and see my public self as a total fabrication. I have been experimenting with it here and other places.

I’m not going to pretend I understand it.

But you can walk through that void. Yuh know if you have or not.

Nothing about you is real on this side of the void. That idea unraveled me.

But it didn’t leave me bitter, it left me amused that we all think ourselves these independent beings.

I saw all around us is only Simulacra of the real.

So now I just live on Earth happy and peaceful mostly. I see life as a drama, a dream. You can wake up in a dream.

And sometimes I like to mix it up and destroy it all and start again.

I’m not perfect and neither are you. We are limited and beautiful and terrible.

I can only say I’m a Human Being here now, whatever that is ????

Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:29 am


There is no difference between
your body and the body of the
buddha. If ignorance exists,
seeds of realization are sown in it.

Seeing yourself in the master and
the master in yourself, you sense
reality. Understanding that all worldly
phenomena and the one reality are
interwoven and inseparable, you
begin to experience peace and comfort.

Carrying on, continuing on with
concentration, you illuminate your
own buddha nature from within,
and then, seeing that nothing
is apart from it, become free
and peaceful in all you do.

— Wei Wu Wei


Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:22 am

Stoic minute...

“Be thankful for whoever comes to you, for they have been sent as a guide.”

Become What You Cherish

“Instead of averting your eyes from the painful events of life, look at them squarely and contemplate them often. By facing the realities of death, infirmity, loss, and disappointment, you free yourself of illusions and false hopes and you avoid miserable, envious thoughts.

Attach yourself to what is superior, regardless of what other people think or do. Hold to your true aspirations no matter what is going on around you.”

— Epictetus - The Art of Living - pg. 28-29

Memento Mori

Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:03 pm

The Pure Land

— Dialogue 72 from Open Secret by Wei Wu Wei

Is IT possible to be rid of the concept of “other” without at the same time being rid of the concept of  “I”, or to be rid of the concept of “I”' without at the same time being rid of the concept of ”other”?

☼ It is not possible.

With which should one begin?

☼ With neither. An identified subject cannot rid itself of either concept.

That is news, bad news! I thought that was what is required of us?

☼ As well be required to scoop up the moon by baling its reflection out of a puddle!

What then?

☼ Until an identified subject knows what he is, he cannot be expected to realize what he is not.

Cannot I say also that until he knows what he is not, he cannot realize what he is?

☼ You can. You should. You must.

There seems to be no way out!

☼ That is why we are not all Buddhas. If it seemed to be possible should we not have done it long ago?

But there must be a way out!

☼ There is no 'way', and nothing 'out'. It is here and now.

Then what is it?

☼ What it is—is quite obvious.

Not to me.

☼ If you can't find it by looking—don't look, if you can't find it by thinking—don't think! It is where there is no looking, and no thinking.

Because it cannot either be seen or thought?

☼ Not at all.

Why, then?

☼ Not because it cannot be seen or thought, but because there is no 'one' to look or to think!

Then what does one do?

'☼ One' does not do. 'One' does not even cease to do.

And so?

☼ It is better for you to tell me. Is what your identified subject is—anything he can know?

Surely not.

☼ Is what he is—anything he can not-know?

What he is—is not likely to be an object of knowledge.

☼ Can he see, know, or find what he is or what he is not?

I do not think so.

☼ Why is that?

Probably because what he is looking for, trying to know, seeking to find, is what is looking, trying, seeking?

☼ Exactly. That is the answer.

But is it an answer?

☼ It is the only answer. Finding no 'thing', he finds that he is what he is, which is also what he is not.

So that what he is not is what he is?

☼ In so far as words can suggest it.

But does that answer my question?

☼ You asked me how to be rid of the interdependent concepts of 'other' and “I”. They have been mutually abolished.

So that. . . ?

☼ No 'other', no “I”.

And what I am is also what I am not, and what I am not is also what I am! No room for self, no room for other-than-self! Is that not a definition of Nirvana or of the Pure Land?

☼ It is also a definition of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Is there a historical precedent for such an approach?

☼ There are many. For instance when Hui K'o had 'his' supposed mind tranquillized by Bodhidharma, by being unable to find it—that was not the result of his having no mind to find, but because there was no 'he' to have anything. The mind was not missing: it was he that could not be found.

It was mind that was looking for mind and not finding itself as an object?

☼ And not-finding was finding!

Memento Mori


Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:15 pm

The wind is up...

I was going for post modern biblical...


Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

Post by Guest on Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:03 pm

Amazing synchronicities.

The wind is up.

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Re: The Black Hole Soul by GarzParz

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