Yes, 99...... 2

First topic message reminder :

It looks like we’re running up,against the 40 page allotment from the last thread......

And I’m still with Tulsi, unless there is a better suggestion......

Cy and smelly,

Both of you believe that (some?) persons are expendable.

I find that reprehensible.

And I have faith in one thing.

I am going to die.

So now that I’m done with my faith.

I’ll enjoy my wondering amazement.

Sorry Dan.

I had to give it to you straight for once.

What you do with it is your choice.

Nothing is the only thing that can't exist.

I will not die.

I am eternal...the Alpha and Omega.

Yes, smelly,

You have had a very difficult time telling it straight.  

Now tell us about the ‘expendables’........ the ones of us who seem incapable of rising to life’s challenges.

And tell us why you are not expendable, smelly.

The whole world isn’t my problem or persons.

I know that my faith in death will handle all ignorance.

It only allows ignorance on earth for a short time.

That’s how you know we are loved.

It kills us, as ignorance.

Only our ignorance dies.

dan wrote:Cy and smelly,

Both of you believe that (some?) persons are expendable.  

I find that reprehensible.  

I NEVER said that Dan.  

You are still jumping to conclusions to suit your meta narrative - BAD HABIT.

ReRead.  Slow down and actually look to see thru the eyes of another.  Without assumption or expectation.  It's a skill you've not exercised in a long time.

Do it.

Again, Cy,

You continue to demonstrate your inability to have a conversation......


smelly,

Boy! You have suddenly changed your tune about death. I hold your feet to the fire, and you start to wise up.

I hope you’re paying attention, Ack.

I love this.

Bahahaha

Sophia is whoppin Dan’s ass.

Whoop him good ma!

Dan, stand down.

Do it.

You guys are kind of on the same page.

I love any person I meet like my self.

Don’t do your little shut down move.

Are you threatening me, smelly?

And exactly who is threatening to shut down whom?

Dan, Smelly,

Go read:
Walter Wangerin Finds God Everywhere | Christianity Today

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/januaryweb-only/1-26-21.0.html

Walter Wangerin Jr. is widely recognized as one of today's most gifted writers on the issues of ... He won the American Book Award for The Book of the Dun Cow.


We will speak AFTER you have read the book by Wangerin. 
https://www.christianbook.com/the-book-of-the-dun-cow/walter-wangerin/9780060574604/pd/574607?p=1004924

Study Questions on The Book of the Dun Cow
http://www.lutheranwriters.org/uploads/dun_cow_pdf.pdf

Dan Smith wrote:Again, Cy, 

You continue to demonstrate your inability to have a conversation...... 

I answered your questions Dan.  You didn't understand the conversation.

Perhaps you Dan should pay attention.

The way makes the way.

You can have faith death wakes us all up...only if we face it and are born again.

The Christians lied about being born again.

They never learned how to die.

Jesus died, but not them.

They are all living in ignorance.

Profound.

Clear here.

dan wrote:Are you threatening me, smelly?

And exactly who is threatening to shut down whom?

No.

I commanded you to stand down

I’m tellin Ma on you.

Now!

Who is ready to see the one writing here is their ignorance?!

Me is one!

I am ignorance!

Who else will confess their truth?!

I could never speak or know or be Truth.

My life is a compromise between Truth and Chaos.

Maybe an experiment.

Well whoever made me, I’m ready to give you some direct feedback.

Call me

Let’s do lunch.

Cy,

If you wish to wield the Truth, you are going to have to learn to do it while standing on your own two feet, in real time.  

It is of no use to hide behind books.  

You need to learn to internalize Truth...... to make it your own, so that when we, all, have to finally step up to the plate, we can stand up for our universal Truth.


smelly,

So, for you know, you and all the rest of us are expendable..... right now.


(cont.......)

Turn the sim off when you like.

Let’s serve god our ignorance pie.

Maybe he’ll choke on it

It would only be the known ignorance of god that chokes.

Only gods ignorance died on the cross.

dan wrote:Cy,

If you wish to wield the Truth, you are going to have to learn to do it while standing on your own two feet, in real time.  

It is of no use to hide behind books.  

You need to learn to internalize Truth...... to make it your own, so that when we, all, have to finally step up to the plate, we can stand up for our universal Truth.


smelly,

So, for you know, you and all the rest of us are expendable..... right now.  


(cont.......)

Dan I already stand on my own two feet.  To quote something for context rather than rewriting it all is perfectly reasonable.  Reading should be easy for a scholar.  

You want to have a conversation but the problem is, you have no interest in speaking any language but your own these days.

Just as you don't understand my signature lines...what I mean when I say "The Dog Without Illusion" or the other about "Loonies."  You don't want to do due diligence and read the defining works for the context they provide...you think you can expect from others a two sentence explanation, when in turn you write a forum board-wide book and expect us to understand you by reading its long winding trail.

And now there are so many other posts in the thread I'm not sure you'd ever be able to place the reference in the context intended.

Cy,

smelly and I both believe in the Big Love.  

I don’t think you have any conception of what that might be...... much less that any such thing might even be possible.  

smelly and I do not believe in being timid in love.

We believe that we should all be ready, at a moments notice, to bet the farm on love.  

That is all that I am doing....... should any of us do any less?  



(cont.......)

Cyrellys wrote:

dan wrote:Cy,

If you wish to wield the Truth, you are going to have to learn to do it while standing on your own two feet, in real time.  

It is of no use to hide behind books.  

You need to learn to internalize Truth...... to make it your own, so that when we, all, have to finally step up to the plate, we can stand up for our universal Truth.


smelly,

So, for you know, you and all the rest of us are expendable..... right now.  


(cont.......)

Dan I already stand on my own two feet.  To quote something for context rather than rewriting it all is perfectly reasonable.  Reading should be easy for a scholar.  

You want to have a conversation but the problem is, you have no interest in speaking any language but your own these days.

Just as you don't understand my signature lines...what I mean when I say "The Dog Without Illusion" or the other about "Loonies."  You don't want to do due diligence and read the defining works for the context they provide...you think you can expect from others a two sentence explanation, when in turn you write a forum board-wide book and expect us to understand you by reading its long winding trail.

And now there are so many other posts in the thread I'm not sure you'd ever be able to place the reference in the context intended.

Ok I will make this easy for you Dan...

Analysis of the book with emphasis in bold and yellow mine:  

Wangren's first novel, "The Book of the Dun Cow" (1978), won both the 1980 National Book Award and the New York Times Best Children's Book of the Year award.


Using animals to write about the affairs of humans has a long tradition in literature. Walter Wangerin Jr. has written about the influence of Chaucer’s The Nun’s Priest’s Tale,” a beast fable, on The Book of the Dun Cow. Beast fables are about very “human” animals and end with strong, instructive moralsm Wangerin. asserts that The Book of the Dun Cow is not a beast fable nor is it, as some have called it, an allegory. Rather it is a novel in which, Wangerin argues, the “meaning ... springs from the reader’s experience”


Wangerin also credits another genre, the beast epic, as an influence (243-244). Epics traditionally present heroes and their antagonists in battles which define the values which a culture holds dear. The Book of the Dun Cow has such a hero-- Chauntecleer, a rooster-- who not only rules his coop, but also a whole community of animals. His final major antagonist is none other than Wyrm, a snakelike creature, who embodies evil itself. But using a rooster as the central character also contributes to a playful element in the novel. Pay attention in your reading to the ways in which Wangerin uses the actual characteristics of the animals he is describing, as he is simultaneously describing their humanity for us.


"Wangerin's work - marinated in myth, animals, biblical figures, and Lakota storytellers - is masterful wordsmithery," noted Portfleet's Hope collegue Dr. Stephen Hemenway in reviewing the book. "Wangerin's writing guides his reader on a journey to Grace on the roads of dejection, despair and darkness."


Walter Wangerin, Jr.’s book The Book of the Dun Cow (1978) is loosely based on the fable “Chanticleer and the Fox,” adapted from Geoffrey Chaucer’s “The Nun’s Priest’s Tale” in The Canterbury Tales. In this profound fantasy novel, Chauntecleer the Rooster rules over a peaceful kingdom. However, unbeknownst to the animals that live there, Wyrm, an evil monster imprisoned underground, is breaking free.

Comedically, The Book of the Dun Cow presents the animals’ clashes in personality and their wit and foibles, but comedy soon becomes horror when Wyrm unleashes his forces of chaos and madness. The book became The New York Times Best Children’s Book of the Year and won a US National Book Award.
The rooster Chauntecleer rules his company of hens and the area surrounding his coop. He is presented as a good ruler, albeit with a somewhat flawed character. He is revealed to be quick to anger and self-important. The novel is set prior to the Book of Genesis, at a time when humans are not yet present upon the earth. The animals have been placed on Earth before humans to protect the world from Wyrm, an ancient and evil creature that is trapped at the earth’s center.

Chauntecleer learns that Ebenezer Rat has been sneaking up to the coop at night and eating the hens’ eggs. He is also trying to get used to a new member of the community, Mundo Cani, a dog that is depressed and constantly cries out in anguish.

Another country lies across the river from Chauntecleer’s kingdom. There, another rooster, Senex, lives. He is characterized as a weak ruler, whose subjects think little of him. Senex is also greatly troubled that he lacks a son. One day, Wyrm speaks to Senex in his dreams, instructing him to put his faith in Wyrm and he will deliver to Senex a son of his own. Senex follows Wyrm’s instructions, and soon, he defies the natural mating order by laying an egg.

When the egg hatches, Cockatrice, a horrible monster, is born. He has the head, legs, and wings of a chicken but the thin, scaly, gray body of a serpent. He murders Senex, taking his kingdom for himself. A toad serves as the speaker for Cockatrice. Cockatrice, an evil tyrant, rapes all the hens he rules so that he can birth an army of basilisks, poisonous snakes he intends to use to crush any animals that oppose his will. Some of the animals escape the land, making it to Chauntecleer’s kingdom, where they attempt to forget the past.
When spring arrives, the animals are filled with joy. Chauntecleer has bred three sons with one of the hens that escaped Cockatrice. Her name is Pertelote. Chauntecleer is struck with prophetic visions about the river beside his land. He dreams of the river rising up and submerging everything in his kingdom. One of God’s messengers, the Dun Cow, comes to Chauntecleer with an enigmatic riddle about how he can defeat the three evils he faces: Cockatrice, the army of basilisks, and Wyrm. When Chauntecleer’s three sons are discovered lying dead by the river, everyone is struck with sorrow. Ebenezer Rat is also found dying with a basilisk in his mouth.

Chauntecleer learns the story of Cockatrice from his wife, and he learns that Cockatrice is making war on the animals to make way for Wyrm. Chauntecleer gathers all the animals in his kingdom. Soon, a wild turkey named Thuringer is attacked and dies from a basilisk’s bite. Mundo Cani saves the rest of the turkeys.

When war breaks out between the animals of the kingdom and the basilisks, the animals, suffering many casualties, purge the land of the snakes. Chauntecleer then puts on war spurs and goes to the battlefield to confront Cockatrice. The battle is bloody, but Chauntecleer is the victor. He throws Cockatrice’s head into the river. Chauntecleer faints from weakness and is brought back to the coop.
A great crack opens in the land, and Wyrm begins to make his way into the world. Inside the coop, Chauntecleer stirs but is delirious from his exhaustion. He sees Mundo Cani and, thinking him a traitor, orders him to leave. The animals all agree that Chauntecleer is acting delusional and that Mundo Cani should not leave. The dog tells them he knows what he must do and leaves the coop.
The other animals are confused, and a delirious Chauntecleer shouts for Wyrm to arise so they may fight. As Wyrm is about to emerge onto the earth, Mundo Cani arrives, holding the horn of the Dun Cow as a weapon. The dog lures Wyrm out with insults, and Wyrm falls for the trick, sticking out his eye so that he can see his opponent. Mundo Cani leaps onto Wyrm’s eye, impaling it with the horn in his mouth. Wyrm falls back into the crack in the earth, and the surrounding area collapses, burying both Wyrm and Mundo Cani.
The animals attempt to return to their normal lives, but Chauntecleer breaks down before his wife. He cries, remembering the final words he spoke to Mundo Cani before he sacrificed himself. His wife comforts him, telling him to honor Mundo Cani and to ask for forgiveness.


Alt Description with additional context: A very different sort of rooster, Cockatrice, who is half serpent, rules the other land and rules it into ruin. Unbeknownst to Chauntecleer and company, they have been set guard over Wyrm, who dwells deep in the ground, an imprisoned evil, anxious to liberate himself and spread disorder:

Could he but spread that soft, vulnerable area across a continent and to the sea, then he could himself blast through the the crust, break free, and gallop through the spheres of the universe. He would bloody the sun. And he would roar almighty challenges to the Lord God Himself. He would spew chaos among the stars; and he would whirl his tail with such power that when it hit the earth, that planet would be cracked from its fixed position at the center of things to spin like nonsense going nowhere.

And when Cockatrice leads an attack on Chauntecleer's coop it enables Wyrm to get on with working his way free. A fierce battle, tragic loss, and noble sacrifice all await, but not before even Chauntecleer despairs:

"And by my will I demand to know now--it is most certainly time now to know: O God, where are you? Why have you hidden your face from us? Why now, of all times, when things are on the rim of disaster, have you turned away?

But he and his comrades will find an odd strength and comfort in the mysterious Dun Cow who shows up to help them by silently sharing their grief as if it were her own, so that this army of the meek can find it within themselves to: "save themselves against the damnable evil which feeds on them."  


The book's message (goes) this way, "Evil must be engaged; it's painful, tiring, and exhausting, but evil left un-addressed allows evil to continue to expand its borders."

I am amazed at Cy’s output Dan.

She even beats the smelly goat and you combined.

I feel such a Love in Cy.

She is the fiery sword.

You can feel her heat.

She is righteous hot forged in Truth.

She can only be quenched by Love.

A little tribute to Cy.

We speak on her porch Dan.

A confession...

I do not have God in my heart.

I do not know how to love it all as my self.

For I have selfishly clung to my life out of fear and ignorance.

What do I know of love?!

I am a cheater in fact, a betrayer of love because I would run from it.

I awoke in the Heart of God I must confess.

I did not want it.

A screaming child!!!

I sought only an end to my doubt.

I did not choose it for it seemed a terrible thing.

I saw it had chosen me ultimately.

I was a marked man from birth.

It’s had me in its sight.

It had given me life.

Damn it!

What a poor life it was raised by fools.

But they were not there for me.

I was there for them.

When I am silent, I do not feel to die and blow away.

I feel inflamed by Love.

But I cannot really show anyone.

It has burned its way out.

Great red and blue flames shoot from my eyes and fingers and other openings

I did not want it.

I did not choose it.

It chose me.

It won’t let me rest.

It won’t let me run.

I have no where else to hide.

I must give it what it wants.

My precious treasured sadness.

It wants my sadness.

Funny words flowing here.

Oh, you know Love great prophets?!

Surely you have seen and felt the terror.

I hear it and feel it in your timeless wordz.

It will burn in you.

It will destroy you.

And then gently caress you with the wind.

And then eat you with a shark.

That’s love terrible.

We cannot look upon it.

We cannot bare it’s full gaze.

And we are totally captured by it.

We have no choice in it.

The choice was made.

I have seen the unidentified object and I have discovered it’s identity and non-identity.

If I have the courage to truly lay down my sadness I shall truly realize paradise here.

Your sadness seems to be behind it all and hides everywhere.

Sadness is impossible and the illusion.

We cling to it as if we would blow away if we let it go.

We live under that shadow.

It isn’t real.

Only Big Love is real or I wouldn’t be here

Sadness did not bring me into being.

Partly it was used to make me, but within that sadness, lay this seed that has grown here before you into this.

And it is TERRIBLY Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gibran on Love...

“When love beckons to you, follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams
as the north wind lays waste the garden.
For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.

Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth.
Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.
He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant;
And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God’s sacred feast.
All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart, and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life’s heart.
But if in your fear you would seek only love’s peace and love’s pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love’s threshing-floor,
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.

Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;
For love is sufficient unto love.

When you love you should not say, “God is in my heart,” but rather, “I am in the heart of God.”
And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
To know the pain of too much tenderness.
To be wounded by your own understanding of love;
And to bleed willingly and joyfully.

To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving;
To rest at the noon hour and meditate love’s ecstasy;
To return home at eventide with gratitude;
And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise upon your lips

...

My heart has broken open...and this is good.

Cy and smelly,

I thank you both for your heartfelt explanations.  

I understand that Wangerin has written an allegory of another allegory...... Armageddon.  

I understand that the prophetic traditions all prophesy a final battle between the forces of good and evil.......

The mystical/monist traditions, on the other hand, have us battling our own shadows in the land of illusion or samsara.... for all eternity.

I guess I’m of the tradition of the One mind......

I place my ultimate faith/fate in the hands of the cosmic Self, of which you and I are still just the microcosms.

But, yes, I do have aspirations....... and, yet, these aspirations are of naught, if they cannot be shared.



(cont.......)

It's turtles all the way down.

Great tribute to Cy, smelly!
Definitely well-deserved.

I'll try this once more, though I'll probably be deleted.

Spoons...

Everyone wants to believe they are the holder of "truth and reality"

Mostly a laughable concept, especially if you are trying to convince someone else of your perceived "T&R"

Now the thing that will get my post deleted..





Be careful...

Ack wrote:It's turtles all the way down.

Always like, Terry Pratchett's books.