Hello, Cy, hello, OMF II

First topic message reminder :

Testing.......

Yes, it is working.

Congratulations to Cyrellys & Co.!

I will be continuing the BPWH blog from Compass Morainn, which was a continuation from the original OMF site on ProBoards, which is in the process of being re-archived from that site.



(cont.)

Its not just that BPWH is lame.

It only goes so far. Immaterialism is like nihilism... it is a negation. Its not a thing.

Materialism took dudes pretty far. Immaterialism isn't going to take them any further.

There is a new idea suggested by the fact that materialism AND immaterialism are both inaccurate or incomplete.

Once you figure that out, your failures will turn into success. And everyone will be like, "Oh yeah, duh."

Ok, dude/Dylan,

The floor is yours. You have my undivided attention to show us how to thread the needle between the Scylla of materialism and the Charybdis of immaterialism...... after lunch, that is.......


3:45----------

All the King's horses and all the King's men have tried to mend the Cartesian dichotomy, but, after four centuries, no one has a clue as to how to solve the mind/body problem, other than with materialism or immaterialism. All the scientists favor materialism. All the philosophers favor immaterialism. Who is right?

Why should I favor philosophy over science, in this regard? For one reason, this issue is nolo-contendere, on the part of the scientists. They simply refuse to debate the matter. Their only motto is...... damn the torpedoes.

There is nothing wrong with that PoV, as long as science rules the intellectual roost. But those days are, quite obviously, running out.

How then do we explain the lack of traffic, here at OM? As mentioned this morning, it would seem that Chicken Little is the only one who has been granted permission to make a federal/cosmological case out of immaterialism. Why so?

Well, if you were God, what would you do wrt the MoAGS?

Would you not wait as long as possible? Evidently, the great Concealer has been quite content to bide her time wrt Revelation. It would even seem that she is intent upon playing brinksmanship wrt the Eschaton. How else can one play with the Eschaton, pray tell?

Furthermore, if we had our d'ruthers, would we not want God to be a drama queen? Don't we usually like our mysteries to keep us in suspense, until the very end? Why should history be any different?

So, here we are. How close to the precipice is close enough? Shouldn't we wait until the majority of us have awoken to our peril? If God intervened any sooner, wouldn't most of us suppose that God is a party-pooper?

But suppose there is no God...... Well, in that case, you had better get out your shovel, and start digging. Are there any better ideas?

Furthermore, if we assume that we, humans, have a natural, God given, proclivity for the truth, then, it would take only the smallest nudges, in the right direction, to set off a truth-quake, especially, now, with the Internet almost fully in place. No?

Also, if you bother to check out the historical parameters wrt the CL slot, then you would also realize that there is a divinely ordained quantum barrier wrt this slot. To jump that barrier, you do need to be a fully credentialed and accredited fool and/or clown. Having your very own kashmerian goddaughter might not hurt, either. That does narrow down the field, just a bit.

Have I left anything out?


4:45---------

So, as I said, early in the day, it all comes down to the insanity of Tegmark....... either there exist an uncountable infinity of worlds, or we are God's children, and we are about to get our little rear-ends Raptured. No?

Which would you prefer? Well, this raises the other issue....... I have yet to meet anyone who was ready to meet their maker. Have you? Almost by definition, we, sane ones, are not ready. All of us have severe qualms wrt suicide. None of us would be here if we didn't..... which brings us back to that earlier question...... why is there something, rather than nothing?

We are here because, and only because, we have a very serious fear of God. Who put the fear of God into us? Other than God herself? And why would she do that to us?

Well, here is the answer...... we have met the Enemy, and She is us!

Probably, I will need to explain that........


5pm-----------

It comes back to that other, pressing, question........ Are we a cancer or a chrysalis?

Had we been a cancer, then, like any good physician, God should have intervened, ASAP.

However, if we are a chrysalis, then the proper time for intervention would already have been written in the stars. No?

What is the date that has been written in the stars? If it is not ~2,000 CE, then I'll just have to eat my hat. And so will a few others.

But, no, ask not what is written in the stars, ask only what is written in our own minds. TBMK, the answer is still the same. Would someone care to venture another date, this side of Eternity?

And, yes, the preeminent question is, still, whether you and I are prepared to meet our Maker? Well, that answer has a lot to do with the issue of Universalism, which was virtually my mother's milk. The only excuse for delaying our xfer to Heaven is because none of us is totally convinced that we measure up to those high standards, except for those few of us who happen to be Universalists. How can I bring anyone else around to that PoV?

Well, all you have to do is study Feynman, and take under advisement his advice concerning electrons...... it is entirely plausible that there exists only one electron...... OMG, here it is....... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-electron_universe.

Well, according to the recently updated BPWH, we happen, quite logically, to inhabit a One-soul-universe, which soul we happen to share with God. Therefore, if God is going to Heaven, then so are you and I. Any other questions?

So why doesn't God just come out and tell us this? Why keep beating around this bush, on the brink of the Precipice?

Well, if I were God, I would hit this ball right back into your court...... If you were God, how would you handle the Eschaton, pray tell?

How long would you wait?

And, quite to the point, how would you handle the Announcement, given that this issue were to be, quite suddenly, tossed into your lap? If you're so smart, anyone, why don't you have the answer?


5:45--------

There is only one logical answer...... To whomever this question first occurs, in some serious fashion, to that person is liable to fall a certain, minimal responsibility, thereto. If that were to be the case, you already have my answer........ WYSIWYG. Are there any further questions, wrt the Eschaton?

And, so far today, I've failed to mention MJ12. That group does play a critical role herein, although, by design, they have very little free-will in that regard. If any humans are on a short leash, they are the ones. For instance, and by comparison, I am a veritable loose cannon, which is only meant to add a bit to our eschatological drama.

Jack is a PoI, wrt this drama. So is Sam, who is only slightly, as of late, less cautious than Jack, in this regard. After all, Jack is refusing to organize a seminar for me in London. But, do keep in mind, that I have spent many, many more hours in conversation with Sam, about the Eschaton, so, yes, Sam has less excuse, if excuse there be.

But, let it be known, that Sam has never studied physics or cosmology, so he is not my primary target, moving forward. There are, of necessity, two targets, and, of further necessity, we must keep trading them off.

1.) There are the fringe physicists, like Jack & Co.

2.) There are the biophysical economists, who understand, full-well, that we are up the creek without a paddle. There is no entry for this, or for Charles Hall, who is the mentor, thereof.

If you have no understanding of BE, then you can have no understanding of the BPWH.


6:30---------

I fully understand that there is no point in touting a problem, so long as the solution is not within our grasp. Are we a cancer or a chrysalis? This is the problem. Obviously, the chrysalis is the solution, but, it is very difficult for the modern-minded individual to grasp that 'solution'. Am I not right?

Only under the aegis of immaterialism may that solution be grasped. I, personally, have never met an immaterialist, so what chance is there for the BPWH?

This is where MJ12 has to come into the picture. Do they truly have to? Well, we can hardly deny that they have played a significant role, up to this point. Should they not have one last walk-on? They will have to call their own shot. I would suggest the 8-ball, in the corner pocket, IMHO. But what else do I know about the Endgame? Not a whole lot.


7pm----------

I regret to say that my very good friend, Gordon Novel, is in the ICU, and, as of the last notice from his son, Sur, his health is declining. It is almost like tearing out a page from the history book.



(cont.)

Sorry to hear about your friend GN, Dan. Please do not lose sight that history is always in a state of occurring one second at a time. Torches must be passed - so to the lore behind the journey. Keep safe in your travels.

dan wrote:
7pm----------

I regret to say that my very good friend, Gordon Novel, is in the ICU, and, as of the last notice from his son, Sur, his health is declining. It is almost like tearing out a page from the history book.

mdonnall2002 wrote:Sorry to hear about your friend GN, Dan. Please do not lose sight that history is always in a state of occurring one second at a time. Torches must be passed - so to the lore behind the journey. Keep safe in your travels.

mdonnall2002,
I know you to be a gracious and considerate soul. However I experienced a seriously disturbing episode a few years ago.

I am perplexed by Dan referring to GN as his "very good friend". Particularly considering that Dan's NO.1 subject of his blogging over the past month, has been Jack Sarfatti.

Decades of respectful social pleasantries among close friends and confidants is a cherished and rare bond. How could anything break such a relationship. God forbid one should ever diminish such an investment.

BUT!......

A few years ago, Jack Sarfatti was terrified by a series of communications. GN had directly threatened Jack to violently end his life. And GN's son was the one who GN threatened would be the one to carry out the horrendously described violence culminating in death. Jack Sarfatti responded to this threat, forthright and without reserve. He exhibited the behavior of man who was fearful that his life could be snuffed-out at any moment in surprise.

As per Jack's request, I reported on contents of Jack's private email convo regarding this episode "live" at Open Minds Forum, as it was unfolding. The very 'short list' of email recipients included a some VIPs with 'Beltway' clout. As well as tagged FBI reporting and surveillance. This was NO JOKE.

There are countless circumstances wherein we extend forgiveness, understanding and forbearance with others. But when a multi-decade close friend confidant threatens death, this crosses a line. A demarcation unlike any other line one can cross.

Sometimes unexpected circumstances arise whereby we must re-evaluate who we will call a "very good friend"

Jack writes from England responding to what I wrote above, as being accurate and has no objection to my post. He extends some empathy to Gord’s “scary” behavior, thinking it was due in part to an untreated long term medical condition – “medical cause”. He basically liked Gordon.

What is it that drives us to do what we invest our lives in? Gord Novel aspired to monumental achievements of historical proportions. Yet never saw any fruition. A significant investment of will and purpose, driven at seemingly all cost.

Was RAM truly Gord’s aim, was there any truth to it? Or was it a façade to aid peculiar IC machinations? Or merely the dream of an actor? Will we travel to the stars someday in some form of anti-gravity/FTL craft? If so, will Gordon Novel be awarded a footnote in the saga of its pioneering development? StarDrive, hmmm. Will such a Kingdom Come?

We may not live long enough to know. C’est La Vie

I apologize if I may have caused you any embarrassment, Dan. Having lived through Jack's "scary" ordeal, I felt morally implored to say something. And I certainly didn't mean to kick a man when he's down (ICU). Gordon has lived a most extraordinary life. His real biography (if it could be written) would be quite interesting to many people.

Jake Reason wrote:

mdonnall2002,
I know you to be a gracious and considerate soul. However I experienced a seriously disturbing episode a few years ago.

Jake

Thank you for the historical reference and the compliment, but I am always ten steps from where I need to be. With so much to know - without a need to know - it's hard to grasp intent and direction of the many involved.

Excluding the BPW from Dan's continued communication - I do concur with his take on the population bubble. I have often wondered, even in naivety from all things UFO related, when man would begin to irreparably harm that which sustains us.

Visitation by the enigmatic forces/beings recorded over the years seems to imply this was to be our direction many years before it became popular to discuss.

Dan does offer awareness on many levels when he comes down from his lofty perch to speak plainly. His Sophia spoke strongly enough to him that he would endure scorn and ridicule, apparently, to convey a message. I prefer not to Judge to harsh the hands with impossible tasks before them. You have a history with Dan - so I will just assume he might actually BE crazy as some form of insulation.

I have spent many hours trying not to think like me, but to think like those 'in charge' that have their finger on the population fail-safe. How many would do it for the greater good of survival? Do we continue the trend until we waste away? Will the world really end without some ‘great awakening’ of responsibility in ALL of its inhabitants or the Second Coming? I do wonder which will arrive first.

The most liberated people on Earth accelerate resource destruction by the constant demand for more of everything - bigger, better, faster. The current economic model is in a state of implosion because it hinges on the death march of materialism and its unsustainability when very few are sustaining the system anymore. Barring new land outside Terra-firma to plant our feet upon, very tough decisions are creeping in like an unseen plague. Would freer/cleaner energies bring us more prosperity and subsequently a population boom that would only hasten our demise? Surely I ramble, but these are tough questions with no easy answers in a time when the future bears more uncertainty and fear than the wonder and awe historically granted.

To close:

“The dreams of youth are the regrets of maturity”

Jake,

Don't worry about embarrassing me wrt to Gordon. I'm not sure that Jack has ever met Gordon, and I still don't recall the email exchange to which you refer, and I can't imagine why Gordon would have threatened Jack. Nonetheless, I have no reason, whatsoever, to doubt the facts of the case, as you and Jack recall them, and, surely, there is no need to rehash any of them at this point.

My interactions with Gordon have come almost entirely at the behest of Ron. Gordon has been a primary topic of conversation with Ron, since the beginning. If it weren't for Gordon, we would have had much less to talk about. After hearing much about Gordon's escapades, early on, I ran into him at a meeting with Joe Firmage in DC, back in the early 90's, and invited him to a dinner that I knew Ron would be attending.

Upon being informed of Gordon's presence, Ron made haste to back out of the front door, but, after much cajoling on the part of myself and the host, he decided to stay. They spent the next couple of hours engaged in intense, private conversation. They have been insperable, since.

Despite our very serious disagreements, and our close association through Ron, Gordon has never made the slightest verbal threat against me. I was with him, just before and after the Pizza Hut incident with PM. I don't doubt Paul's version of that incident, nonetheless, the only time that Ron or I are aware of Gordon having participated in any act of violence was when he managed to get beaten up by a much larger and younger woman, in a boxing match, that was being 'sponsored' by his 'associates'.

As to the RAM part of Gordon's interests, I suspect that he may have been exploited as a pawn and/or stalking-horse, in the larger drama.

It would be a crying shame, if significant parts Gordon's life cannot, in some fashion, be immortalized.


MD02,

Yes, we continue to speed precipitously toward the edge of the resource cliff, damning all torpedoes. Can there possibly be a soft-landing.... can this Juggernaut be turned on a dime? I think all agree that it would take a miracle. Do I doubt that such a miracle will occur? My powers of ratiocination suggest that we would not have been allowed to come all this way for naught, and that we are the protagonists of a cosmic drama. Can I prove this? I can demonstrate that it is the only rational thing to believe, and that its plausibility is much greater than our modernist predispositions can countenance.
-------------


I need to continue to focus on tomorrow's 'seminar'. Nonetheless, I spent several hours last night reviewing the mathematics surrounding the newly published 'proof' of the ABC Conjecture. Being a devout monist, I take considerable interest in the organic unity displayed within the vast field of mathematics, much of which is crucial to our cosmological 'intuitions'. I will, undoubtedly, make reference to this development, tomorrow.


I have no intention of having an outline, or even an opening statement. I never have.

We gather together to...... for some of us, perhaps, for the first time..... to speak of our ultimate concerns, in any sort of global context, and in any sort of open ended manner.

This is Eschatology, naked and unabashed..... no holds barred. There can be no syllabus for such a topic...... there are far too many unknows and unfathathomables. Who then am I to be posing as a coordinator of such a discussion? Well, it goes largely by default.

Where is everybody else? They all seem to have run for cover.


And, not to stand on ceremony, I continue to labor under the impression that there is a simple solution to the world's problems, and that it will be a package deal, and that one of 'us' will, at the least, be the bow on that package. I am 'here', as in any opportune venue, to practice my 'bowmanship'.

The biggest conceptual hurdle before us is to understand that the world is a construct of our coordinated dreams and imaginations. That proposition strikes most sane folks as being much less than plausible, and, yes, there are days on which I can share that sense of implausibility, certainly on an emotional level.

It was Jack who passed onto me Einstein's view of the world..... as a stubbornly persistent illusion. And, yes, if the world knows anything, it sure knows how to be stubborn!

The world has a good reason to be stubborn wrt our willful, uninformed predilections. Yet, it is we who have conjured it, and we are about to 'reconjure' it, with a little help from above.

What can I do to make this hypothesis seem less implausible.....?

What I have just outlined is what most thoughtful folks have always believed about the world, even today, as we speak, and even though, very few of them know half of what we should all know about mind vs. matter.

Does this mean that the folks here, or at Sam's, tomorrow, are not thoughtful? It means only that it is very difficult, even for the most thoughtful amongst us moderns, to escape the pall of materialist orthodoxy that hangs so heavy on the modern mind. That pall, however, is easily seen to be superficial. The smallest of scratches will begin to uncover something very different.

From whence cometh this pall.....? It comes largely from the miraculous ascendancy of technology, in our daily lives. And from whence did that come? Well, IMHO, it received no small impetus from theism. Yes, there is ample irony in that observation.

Another way to view technological progress is to see it as a slight extension of the Anthropic principle.

The pessimistic side of this coin has been amply put forward by our very own, Craig Dilworth, in his thesis that we are Too Smart for our own good. And so it does seem!

The very latest instance of our being too smart was in 2008, when the the masters of our financial universe came within days or hours of scrambling our entire financial infrastructure, by inventing mathematical tools that proceeded to accelerate us into a financial brick wall. Those who design automobiles had already learned the painful lesson that when you invent an accelerator, a break peddle will be soon be needed. BTW, It was our other friend, Jack Alpert, who got into the population business, only after discovering how hard it was to convince people to wear seat belts, while he was working for General Motors.


12:45--------

Without an outline, I do wander...... What do seatbelts have to do with the Eschaton......?

Hmmm...... Well, given that there ought to be some kind of cosmic intelligence that functions as both our Alpha and Omega, those who see humanity as a cancer upon our cosmic speck of dust, may easily conclude that the lack of divine intervention, even in these most dire of circumstances, is more than ample evidence for the lack of any such cosmic entity.

The chrysalis option for us just does not seem even slightly plausible, at this point.......


Yet, in our hour of need, the planet has become, almost miraculously, and wirelessly, wired. So here we are, all wired-up, and nowhere to go! Except, perchance, into the MoAGS....?

Isn't this just what the cosmic Doctor would have ordered? How better, nay, how else.... to make house calls?!

Avon calling? Chicken Little calling? Who else? All that MJ12 has to do is pick up the red phone...... the God phone? Has this drill never been done before? I suspect it has. We're just waiting for the 'groundhog' to see its shadow.



2:10----------

I spoke briefly with Sam, and he is preparing a crib-sheet for the BPWH, for tomorrow, mostly using the material that has been posted on these last 18 pages.


Look, if I were God, I'd call MJ12. That was the main point of the alleged visitation, to ensure that an MJ12 was already in place. But who could they call, without prompting an immediate followup call to the White House? This is where I always get stuck....... Well, they could call Jack. Am I joking? Maybe not.

In fact, Jack might be the only person they could call. He has the best possible network..... it would be sufficient to get the ball rolling, without immediately requiring an official response. By the time it got back to the WH, the gov't could simply shrug its shoulders..... issue a no comment, or less.

Rather, MJ12 could followup with phone calls to previously identified key players, known to the larger UFO and fringe science communities, in which there is already a significant overlap.

What about the religious and mainstream science communities? And, finally, what about the media?

Yes, that would be the final hurdle. They will studiously ignore ufo gossip. They have been afforded much practice, in the regard. Might one use the tabloids? It wouldn't be the first time. One way to proceed would be to have teaser stories placed in a number of popular Internet sites. That would have required no small amount of preparation, and some long-term networking, to have established a minimal bona-fides, on the part of the MJ12 interlocutors. But how better for MJ12/God to cover her tracks, for as long as possible?



(cont.)

Fascinating stories. A Pulitzer awaits. To think it could have all ended in a cheap pizza parlor.

dan wrote:Jake,

Don't worry about embarrassing me wrt to Gordon. I'm not sure that Jack has ever met Gordon, and I still don't recall the email exchange to which you refer, and I can't imagine why Gordon would have threatened Jack. Nonetheless, I have no reason, whatsoever, to doubt the facts of the case, as you and Jack recall them, and, surely, there is no need to rehash any of them at this point.

OK, I'll take the above as your suggestion requesting respect for reasons outside my scope of NtK, rather than simple memory lapse.

I spent a some time reviewing that episode today. For those who wish to read this most enlightening saga as it unfolded... it's available to read at the OMF Archive I.

http://theopenmind.freehostingcloud.com/index.html

Click "The BPWH, with Special Guest Dan Smith"
then scroll down and click-
"RAM: Truth or Dare"

The Saga starts on page 1 through to page 7, ending with Jack's email making public notice of his withdraw of complaint, accepting mediation through a third party.

It took place in mid January 2010. About a week after the "Rumble at the Hut" and just days before Gordon's C2C interview with George Knapp, where Novel broadcasts the name "Ron Pandolfi" countless times.

you can get it here:
http://www.esnips.com/thumbnails.php?album=1810344&page=2
George didn't mind that I recorded an upload.

Dan wrote (pg 9 reply #120-top of pg) that Ron's known quantity to an audience increased 2-3 orders of magnitude greater than it was the day before.

Now, in retrospect we see (and also speculated at the time) this brief saga from the Pizza Hut to C2C with a terrified Sarfatti sandwiched inbetween, marked The End of the RAM project.

--------------------


It also induced a detailed discussion with you, Dan (at the "RAM: Truth or Dare" thread from pages 8 on).... on the very same subject matter that you are currently enveloped in. Hmmm, quite the coincidynk! like an mini ouroboros time-loop within the mendelbrot of life.

As to the RAM part of Gordon's interests, I suspect that he may have been exploited as a pawn and/or stalking-horse, in the larger drama.

It would be a crying shame, if significant parts Gordon's life cannot, in some fashion, be immortalized.

Indeed

Thanks for the update, Jake. I'm trying to remember if Gordon's appearance on C2C did not precede Gary's and mine, which would have been the following Christmas, 2010.....

Yes, unfortunately, this brief sequence of episodes may have been Gordon's last hurrah. Well, he did go out with a flash. But the larger saga does continue, upon which, Gordon did make an indelible mark. Now, just watch my phone ring, and it will be Gordon on the other end. I did get to speak with him, just a couple of weeks ago, at Ron's timely suggestion.




(cont.)

You're welcome Dan. Yes, yours and Gary's C2C proceeded at the end of that year. And BTW, Gary participated in the "Ram: Truth of Dare" discussion thread.

Jake Reason wrote:
It also induced a detailed discussion with you, Dan (at the "RAM: Truth or Dare" thread from pages 8 on).... on the very same subject matter that you are currently enveloped in.

Dan, here was one of your extended posts then, applicable to your current endeavors.

Re: RAM : Truth or Dare
Dan wrote:
« Page 5, Reply #60 on Jan 16, 2010, 4:09pm »


Ok, so, for almost two decades, we've had the R,G&D show.........

Gordon has burned brightly as he has arced through the firmament, with Ron trailing close behind.

Looking at it from Ron's (MJ-12) perspective, Gordon, at least, has served to keep these waters well stirred, with plenty of mud tossed in.

In this latest go-around with Jack Sarfatti & Co., leading up to Gordon's Sunday night C2C appearance, the R&G show will have reached its apogee.

I have oft stated that Gordon & I serve as Ron's poison-pill defense against any untoward investigation of Ron or the USG's involvement in ufos, for which Ron has served as a very effective lightning-rod, for these many years.

But referring to Gordon as merely a poison-pill, vastly underestimates his effectiveness. A better analogy would be to picture Gordon as Ron's Tar-baby cum Third-rail. Jack is just getting a minor taste of Gordon, as a triple-threat, to any who would dare to lay an investigative hand on Ron, the Beltway's untouchable Pelican/Catfish. It's not that Gordon actually wants to protect Ron, it's only that he just doesn't want anyone to get between him and the object of his 'affections', Ron, either friend or foe.

But Gordon is an asset with a short half-life, once exposed to the light of day. Use it, and you lose it! It's all bark, and no bite. This now leaves Ron's left flank exposed.

The only question going forward will be what remains of the R&D show.......

Ron has two choices:

1.) Run to ground.

2.) Put Chicken Little front and center.

It's not that I underestimate Ron's cleverness and flexibility, which knows few bounds, but, still, there is a bigger picture, which even he cannot entirely finesse.

Ufology, for its entire lifetime, which also coincides with my lifetime, has led a charmed existence within the no-man's-land between science and religion.

Yes, we have survived very well, thank you, within that vacuum or cone of silence, with only a few of our bleats heard outside of this sandbox.

If Gordon is Ron's poison-pill cum tar-baby, then Eschaton-boy is his third-rail.

That third-rail is beginning to look rather more exposed, now that Gordon is achieving his burn-out. There is even a rumor that Gordon may have a rendezvous with the soap-Oprah! Stranger things have happened.

Has this soap-opera been calculated? Only its parameters, but not it's time-line.

Only the father knows the day & hour of D-day, just ask dan-sr about that.

The time-line is flexible, but also inexorable. It does have something to do with the price of rice in Bangladesh, but that's about all I know of it.

This has been a school of hard-knox. The school bell is not going to ring just before the impending Mother of all Knox. Now is it?

Yes, my friends, I am most certainly referring to the price of rice in Bangladesh.

If you want to know the price of rice, in these days of globalization, just check the gas price at the station on the corner.

China is hardly blinking at the recession, as its auto industry has now surpassed the US. For every new car on the road, ten more people will decline into starvation, given the economic tightrope of dwindling resources.

For every penny increase in the price of gas, a million more humans fall below the level of sustainable caloric intake. It's that simple. If there is a God, I doubt that he is ignorant of such things.

Yes, we're about to experience a severe case of belt-tightening, for those of us lucky enough to afford belts and avoid starvation. The Devil may take the hindmost, but God keeps the tally sheet.

And what does this have to do with the Ron&Dan show?

The Energy/Credit crisis has everything to do with Modernism and its Sacred Cow of Perpetual Progress.

The Energy/resource crisis is calling into question the monolith of Progress. Ron himself has opined that we could be facing a 90% die-off.

The perpetrators of the myth of Perpetual Progress have, up to this point, assiduously avoided any contamination with the UFO 'mythos', despite the obvious logical overlap.

As the rapidly deepening resource crisis final penetrates the public consciousness, a very significant portion of the Cult of Perpetual Progress will drawn into the Cargo Cult that is conventional ufology.


3:30 ----------

Ron has always considered Gordon to be a joke. However, as the global famine intensifies, and our precious Hummers head to the crusher, not many folks will be sharing the joke. The Cult of Progress will quickly add its muscle and desperation to the rank and file of the ufo Cargo Cult.....you know, the cult of free-energy.

I'm not sure that Ron has fully grasped the magnitude of the coming onslaught of gas-aholics, turned latter-day ufo-freaks.

But I'm sure that his handlers are bracing themselves.

The meltdown of Gordon comes just on cue.

The tin-foil mad-hatters are about to be drowned out by the banging of empty oil drums, and it won't be Calypso!

And it won't be pretty. Ron will discover that the wrath of the jilted Hummer-lovers is not something to joke about. The ET-huggers will be the least of his worries.

This day has been a long time coming. But the preparations have not been lacking. The entire Cold War was only staged to be a minor prelude. You may think of it as the hidden-hand of the God of History and Prophecy.

9/11 was but a backyard fire-drill.

Am I ready? Of course not!

But I have upped my visits to the 'tanning parlor' (PUVA) to twice a week. So, I'll be 'tanned', rested and relaxed. How about you-all?

Will the traffic here at OM begin to pick up next week? I should certainly hope so, but I don't expect anything dramatic. But the tide is turning. Ron's visibility, in the hinterland, will increase by an order of magnitude, and that is bound to have repercussions inside the Beltway.

Well, so much for current events. I think I'll retire back to the blog-thread. I have my work cut out for me in the immaterialism department. I was trying to explain the immaterialist's take on combustion. I lay awake last night trying to fill that hardly insignificant gap. Wish me luck!

Jake,

An 'order of magnitude', said I? Well, a year later, Gary and I, once again, put Ron's feet to the media fire, but it would seem that he even has asbestos socks! Certainly no Achilles' heel. Here, we even have Sparky to see to that angle, bless his little heart.


But do we now have a new handle on a potential MJ12 strategy? Possibly. I do believe that Jack could be the kingpin, as if he had not been adequately groomed for that slot. After Jack, there would only need to be a handful of calls to various key players in his extensive network, possibly even including his physics buddy, Yakir. Me? Hey, I just sit back and watch the show.


Or, should we just be patient for a couple more years? With only a small amount of subliminal prompting, and a phone call or two, they would be at the threshold of the BPWH. But, at some early point, Jack would likely jump in, dragging Ron and me, close behind. There is no reason that these two avenues should not already have been setnto converge, anyway.

What would have been gained in the hiatus? Well, it all depends on the general malaise of humanity, and how close we can afford to come to the brink of an irreversible chaos. Such a question is well beyond my pay-grade.


Oh, dear, back to immaterialism and tomorrow....... All four of the possible participants are, IMHO, borderline atheists, and they certainly would be perceived as such by my GFC buddies. Nonetheless, probably none of them would suppose that the God/soul hypothesis is implausible, although, no one may have popped that question to them, within the last decade, say.

The problem is that both materialism and immaterialism are robust gestalts, and there is vast chasm between.

Ok, they are, very likely, existential dualists. I can point to the incoherence of that view, but what might actually induce them to abandon that ship.... a ship that has served them adequately, throughout their lives?

It does come back to the cancer/chrysalis issue...... Do they have anything about that issue to take personally? There is nothing for them to do, in any case. We would all just be waiting for MJ12 to call Jack. Otherwise, the BPWH is just a spectator sport.



(cont.)

Here comes my big day, with Sam, Gus, Brendan and with Jim on the phone from Tennesee......

Sam has prepared a 12 page crib sheet, mainly of excerpts from the 18 pages here @OMF II, that will be printed for the meeting. It is starting at 2:30, and Sam and I will have lunch beforehand. And, yes, I'm tanned, rested and relaxed. I don't think, however, that Sam will be providing any Glenfidig.

Last night, before I saw the crib sheet, my inclination was to focus on the crucial issue of consciousness (Cs). I still may do that, but with papers in hand, there will probably be other questions.

The MoAGS wrt Cs....... the world is out there.... no, it's in here.... no, it's out 'there'!! The first instance is our egoless, original participation. The second instance is Beta/ego thinking or 'idolatry'. The third instance is our final participation, with us and the world existing in the mind of God, as we become One with God. The phraseology, here, comes, in no small part, from Owen Barfield.

Then we simply embed this tripartite view of history into a CTC, of ~6K years in circumference. BTW, this tripartite view was first proposed by Joachim de Fiore.

And, yes, I probably should bring up Tegmark and Yakir, that Jack and I were going on about, in that final 7th hour of our taped dialog, the one that was uploaded to lensman137, 8-21-12.


11:40--------

I've been checking on the Toshiba camera that I got in SF, and used as a spare, in the final segment. I can also use the audio recorder on the iPhone, just in the event of imperishable wisdom, wherein we may display a lack of confidence in the akashic record.

Sam seems to be incommunicado, at present....... He was giving a talk to a tour group at the Clifton Park Mansion.


What else should I bring up? I need another checklist.......

1.) WWGD....... What should MJ12 do wrt Disclosure? What about the J&D gambit?

2.) One soul, and Noah's time machine..... the Ouroboric/CTC Circuit of life.

3.) Should Creation be finite or infinite.......? Theism vs. Deism.

4.) Perpetual progress...... Bait&Switch...... God loves Existentialists!


>>>> But starting out with Cs..... Why is there something, rather than nothing.....? Can there be an unobservable universe? Tegmark's reductio ad absurdum.....


2:45----------

We are about to get started here, at Sam's. I may want to reference the timeline on the BPW site.



(cont.)

Well, sports fans, things do seem to be progressing.......

The meeting at Sam's went well, and so did the two hour debriefing at the Dizz, in Remington, afterwards, with Sam finally getting to ask the 10 questions on his handout. He took detailed notes on my answers.

This morning I'm back to GFC/SfA, for the first time in almost two months, and, in the afternoon, I meet with CK and family, in the Annapolis area. I hope to be discussing 'woodchucks'.

There is a 100' iPhone audio recording of the seminar at Sam's, in case someone knows how to upload it.

I should be able to copy those first three pages, over to here....

Crib Sheet - I A
Miscellaneous Information Assembled by Sam which he hopes will assist us during Dan’s Seminar
Sources of information in addition to what Dan will tell us in the seminar
. The 46 min. video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A56hT_51v7I&feature=results_video
. Posts on the revived OMF (Open Minds Forum), beginning April 25, 2012
https://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t6-hello-cy-hello-omf-ii
There are now 18 long pages of posts.
Dan’s very first post on April 25, 2012 in copied into footnote (2)
. Wikipedia articles that Dan finds useful
. Links to other sources that Dan put in his OM Posts
. Earlier writing by Dan on other sites, including his own website, BestPossibleWorld.com, starting ca 2002 and other forums.  See footnote (1)
Note especially the Index for BestPossibleWord.com at
http://bestpossibleworld.com/index06.htm
Persons with whom Dan has had vigorous exchanges on OM
. Cy
. Jake
. Freely
. Admin
. M Donnell
. Gary Bekkum
Summaries of his cosmology and his role that Dan has done on OM:
OM 8-7: Dan’s tutorial for Freely at Freely’s request
IMO, the best way to get into the BPWH is via a God's-eye perspective (GPOV). Can you think of any way that you would like to improve the world? Just name it, and I'll explain how God has you covered. …

There are several crucial points to keep in mind concerning this 'game'........

1.) Would your BPW be finite or infinite? Most folks start by assuming that the BPW would be infinite. But, right off the bat, an infinite world with an infinite number of creatures would diminish the prospect of a reciprocal personal relationship with our Creator.

2.) But our finite seeming world is infinite, because it includes heaven/eternity.

3.) Death is a big problem for most folks. Well, there is no death.

4.) The Eschaton is another problem. The end of Creation is seen only from our mortal perspective. From GPOV, Creation is eternal, and is an essential aspect of heaven/eternity.

5.) There is just one sapient soul, which we timeshare with God and our brothers and sisters. This one soul was never lost, and never could have been, despite what the bible-pounders may tell you.

6.) We are the co-creators of the BPW. It's not really possible to create a second-best world. Every last one of us 'sinners' is essential to the makeup of the BPW.

7.) This is not the only world, but it does make up the vast proportion of Creation. If there is to be diversity, most of it will have to be right here. And it is!

8.) According to #6, we cannot fail to be saved. In becoming saved, we become One with God. This is the meaning of Redemption/Apocatastasis. We already are one with God. Our seeming separation is a temporary 'illusion', and it is a crucial 'illusion'.

9.) Material growth and progress have been the driving force behind human history. Because the BPW is necessarily finite, the increasingly obvious limits to our material growth and progress were an integral part of Creation. At the optimal time in our history, we would be confronted by these limits. So, you see, Creation was always intended as a Bait&Switch operation. We were baited with material riches, and then, at the last moment, we are redirected toward the Spirit, using both carrot and stick, if you will. It's that simple.
…
10.) Creation is a nearly closed time-like curve (CTC). This is the Ouroboric, tail-eating serpent. The Alpha is the tail, Omega is the head. There is a crucial 'spark-gap' between them. This circuit is only about 6,000 of our mortal years, i.e. all of recorded history. We are now at our maximum level of population and consumption. With D-day/MoAPS, we will enter the Millennial kingdom of God, which may last just as long as we wish. I'm suggesting 200 years. By the end of that time, we will only number about 144 million, inhabiting, say, 12 megalopolises. 12 Motherships will evacuate us to heaven. 144 thousand of us will be returned, via Noah's Arks, to the 12 primordial megalithic communities, thus completing the life circuit. Nota-bene, that this is a finite Circuit and not an infinite cycle!


OMF 5-30:  Intended as a response to Paul Chefurka but posted on OM, no in an e-mail
I see two groups responding to the resource crisis...... deep ecologists and 'deep' academics. Both groups agree that it would take a 'miracle' to turn around the juggernaut of modern civilization.
… May I suggest the best possible 'miracle'? Not too big, not too small..... a new worldview..... That's all.
That sounds awfully tame. Well, ok, how about the mother of all paradigm shifts (MoAPS)? This is a worldview that will synthesize (coherently) materialism, pantheism and theism. Per impossible?
There is only one coherent possibility.... immaterialism. … It does not mean discarding (scientific) materialism, it merely means that we turn it 'upside-down'...... or put the spiritual 'horse' before the material cart, understanding that spirit is behind it all, as the pantheists (and philosophers!) have been telling us, all along.
.... It simply means that we get to reinvent/re-envision the world. For our pains, we should expect to get nothing less than the best possible world.
OM 8-5: Dan to Jake with unusual candor re Dan’s vision for his role
  Basically what I'm asking from you, Jack and anyone within the sound of my voice, is to cut me a little slack, and humor me. …

  I think we all agree that we may need divine/external intervention to prevent a collapse of human civilization. I am presenting myself as a possible example of such intervention.
…
  Wrt to evangelical Christians, I present myself as the only known alternative to Armageddon/Tribulation. Do you know of any human alternatives, Jake?
  My specific alternative is the MoAPS, i.e. a nonviolent, spiritual/intellectual revolution. It is a spiritual vision for the Endtimes. But, understand, Jake, that the Enditmes is only from our mortal perspective…. Creation is Eternal, but, as mere mortals, we experience Creation as finite. Does this make any sense to you?


Footnote (3)

By “2nd tier” I mean terms that I hope we don’t have to understand in order to understand what Dan believes are the most important parts of his message

10:10---------

I've been listening to the first part of the 100' audio, and, hey, it's not too shabby, if you have a modicum of patience, it only gets better. Someone will, sooner than later, make a transcription that can be posted here. But now I'm heading to church, and then to Annapolis........


1pm---------

Back from SfA, where we were discussing the NDE's. Jeff and Bill will be absent next week, so the discussion will continue the following week.

I'm finishing up on reviewing the 100' audio...... then it's off to Annapolis.



(cont.)

Well, it does appear that Sam will finally be getting his way wrt my intended target audience, and this will come gratis Aliyah, who has volunteered to be my interlocutor in the next film session. Well, technically, she was volunteered by CK. Aliyah is a young mother, quite untutored in the ways of physics and philosophy. I am already running scared!

Besides CK, there may be a couple of others in the audience. Questions and comments concerning ufology and eschatology are being solicited. The time and place are undisclosed, but do act promptly, if you wish to be included.

This plan seemed to germinate in CK's mind over the course of the afternoon and evening.....

It started out with his urging me to attend the November meeting of 'frauds and crooks' that is being sponsored by a wealthy patron with an interest in ufology, not too far from DC. Why, in heaven's name, I should wish to attend an enclave of 'frauds and crooks' was left as a moot point, my knowing better than to attempt to argue such a point with this master of innuendo.

In the first pass, I was to show up as CK, with the appropriately doctored credentials. One look at the lengthy guest list, including many of his old buddies, quickly put the kibosh on that subterfuge.

The next plan was for him and me to record a deputizing session, that I could carry on my iPhone, for example. But then, over dinner at the National Harbor, that plan quickly morphed into a J&D style of dialog, but now it would be A&D, with CK acting as Kim, and fielding the questions, with the general topic being ufology and eschatology. Oh, yes, one minor detail is that I might be required to don, once again, the Arab style Peter Pan outfit that I previously wore as the best man at their wedding in the mosque. Those photos never quite surfaced. He suggests that a tinfoil hat could be included with the usual Arabian head gear. Is this possibly intended to earn me my first Fatwa? Or, maybe, to help avoid such....?

We'll just have to stay tuned.......

I don't know about you, but I think, if we can be good sports about the accoutrements, that Aliyah and I could have some fun with this, even, or especially(!), with CK trying to hide behind Aliyah's Kashmir sari.

Shouldn't the very first topic be the Googa Magoogs, aka the Ya'juj and Ma'juj, or Gog and Magog that, originally, were two tribes of disbelievers? When CK first invited me to discuss eschatology with Aliyah, she wondered if I was talking about the Googa Magoogs, which, after some confusion on my part, turned out to be correct, seeing as how those two tribes, later, took on apocalyptic roles.


From that point on, the field will be open........

We can further delve into aliens, and, in particular, whether CK and Kashmir might be such, at least in part.

But back to the dinner...... I ran down my usual list of global crises, once again attempting to flap the unflappable. For a guy who is supposed to be specialing in the longevity of Afgahni hamsters, he is never lacking in, often unorthodox, opinions on the state of the various trouble spots...... Israel going to bomb Iran? Hey, they were recently defeated by the Lebanese. Surely they don't wish to take on the much better prepared Iranians. They do their saber rattling only to shake us down for more aid money.

Euro crisis......? Who cares, Euro or no Euro? Germany knew, going in, that they were only in it to foster European unity. So it will cost them a few extra Euros.... they can afford it. And besides, with eyebrow raised, is Jesus going to come back just to save the Euro?

And all of this from the guy who once opined on a 90% die-off...... Like is the J-man going to come back just to save 90% of the world?! He's got me there, me being a Universalist!

And what about Romney vs. Obama.....? Well, typically, a president is only able to implement about 2% of their platform, so it doesn't really make any difference, does it? Probably true.

It sounds like I should crawl back in my little groundhog hole, and wait for the next season.

And how about them Googa Magoogs? It seems like I may be the one hiding behind Aliyah's sari.


11:15----------

Perhaps I can be the populist wrt the scientific establishment trying to keep us down on the farm, spiritually speaking. Of course, they can continue to do that only with the connivance of the Guy/Gal in the sky.

Hey, maybe I should brush up on my Islamic eschatology. I've always claimed that the J-man, historically speaking, owns the Eschaton. Where does the Koran fit into that picture?

Gosh, it is alleged that fully one-third of the Qur'an deals with this topic.


12:20-----------

In my quick perusal of both versions of eschatology, I see no significant or insurmountable differences, certainly not in comparison with the departures being introduced by the BPWH.

BTW, at dinner, it was Aliyah who took exception to CK's unflappable worldview, by pointing out how much suffering there was in the rest of the world. Hurry, Lord?

But he has a good point....... If the J-man were to return, it should be for positive reasons and not for negative ones, despite the fact that God may be a drama queen, and may be playing brinksmanship, and doesn't want to be a party-pooper.

The end of progress, and the Bait&Switch, should be the primary foci. The B&S is the primary rationale for the Self-concealment. How else can God play peekaboo?

Should the scientific establishment be judged for having participated in the B&S? No, certainly no more than the religious establishment, both of which have only ever been about fulfilling their historically ordained roles.


1pm----------

@Jake,

Yes, the predominant take on my methodology, or lack thereof, is that I have a great proclivity for presenting a moving target, and that debating with me is like trying to play whackamole. Should I apologize? Yes and no....... After all, the primary logic behind the BPWH is the Coherence Theory of Truth (CohTT). You will never be able to appreciate or comprehend any one aspect of the BPWH, without having a firm grasp on its entirety. There is no point in getting bogged down in debating individual parts, if you don't understand how the parts relate to the whole. That, at least, is the best excuse I can come up with.

Yes, clearly Jack is some kind of godsend. I, of course, am inclined to suppose that he be more like a stalking horse, and not unlike Gordon, in that regard, otherwise, they being apples vs. oranges!

Clearly, the intelligence community has its own proclivity to keep its fingers in these various pies, with more or less degrees of subtlety. That's one reason why we're here. It's called participatory eschatology, and the more the merrier.



(cont.)

Oh my, Dan, there is just too much here over the last couple pages to respond to all. I guess I'll simply have to answer to your direct questions quoted above.

@ mdonnall, yes Dan is difficult to follow. Just keep in mind that he talks to several audiences at once. Not that that should make it easier.

dan wrote:Jake,

An 'order of magnitude', said I? Well, a year later, Gary and I, once again, put Ron's feet to the media fire, but it would seem that he even has asbestos socks! Certainly no Achilles' heel. Here, we even have Sparky to see to that angle, bless his little heart.


But do we now have a new handle on a potential MJ12 strategy? Possibly. I do believe that Jack could be the kingpin, as if he had not been adequately groomed for that slot.

When I first learned of Jack, I was struck with an impulse that I should pay attention to his work. It was an eschatological impulse. There are peculiar indications that he may have been a preordained placement =(G-d send). As I've mentioned before, if greatest is not attributed to him while living, he'll likely be elevated to historical fame after he's passed on.

[quote="dan"]Well, sports fans, things do seem to be progressing.......

Crib Sheet - I A
>>
>>
>>

OM 8-5: Dan to Jake with unusual candor re Dan’s vision for his role
  Basically what I'm asking from you, Jack and anyone within the sound of my voice, is to cut me a little slack, and humor me. …

I surprise myself as to how much slack I cut you. Humor you? That's a tall order.

  I think we all agree that we may need divine/external intervention to prevent a collapse of human civilization. I am presenting myself as a possible example of such intervention.

Oh I think we get significantly more divine intervention than most people realize.

However in regards to "collapse of human civilization" prophecy and historical precedence highly suggest that the Divine will not miraculously stop us unless (and IF) we go completely insane, such that no one would survive. Otherwise, G-d will continue to let "free will" do it's thing.

If there be a "collapse of human civilization" it will be all man's fault. We are not lacking any requirements to be wise, responsible and harmonious custodians of this world, and all that thrives herein.

IOW, it is irresponsibly immature to believe we NEED Divine intervention. And so if we want to be wise, we must think otherwise.

Wrt to evangelical Christians, I present myself as the only known alternative to Armageddon/Tribulation. Do you know of any human alternatives, Jake?

Most evangelicals think the Apocalypse to be Divinely preordained to occur. However they are mistaken. On this point Dan, we agree. To the Protestant Christians and eschatologists I would simply and succinctly argue this position by pointing to "The Two Witnesses".

I would suggest that there is virtually no other reason for them, other than to give man one more chance to stop the march toward Apocalypse. They warn that if man will not turn from their ways, catastrophe will occur. That's all they do. There is little other purpose for them. They are a redundancy. They aren't even really needed, as "Jesus" said, we have the prophets before us, we need no other witness. So why send "the Two Witnesses?"...

They represent the one last chance for man to 'repent' and stop his own madness.

Yes, I believe in imminitizing the avoidance of Apocalypse. And believe this is the will of the Divine. While on the contrary, I do NOT believe in imminitizing an Apocalypse to make prophecy come true. And believe that to aid such in any way, is to follow after the will of a Deceiver.

We are not to fight Gog and Magog. All policy that moves in that direction is Luciferian. Rather, we are Divinely willed to keep our brothers as friends. Yes, we ARE our brother's keeper.

You say Dan "I present myself as the only known alternative to Armageddon/Tribulation. Do you know of any human alternatives, Jake?":

I can assure you that you are not one of the "Two Witnesses". And yes, I do know of other human alternatives that could be catalysts in a significant way.

One of the biggest ways in which you fall short, is by not offering anything else for the MIC to do. The MIC has naturally arisen because this is one of the Worst Possible Worlds. And you offer nothing else to keep them busy. A Chicken can not save the world from Armageddon. Gandhi would have had a better chance.

Sorry.

However, you can most certainly be a BIG help.
You just need to recognize your place. Those who could make it happen, will need cheer leaders, advisory council, strategic connections and platforms. I suspect you could be in the mix there somewhere.

  My specific alternative is the MoAPS, i.e. a nonviolent, spiritual/intellectual revolution. It is a spiritual vision for the Endtimes.

Although improbably, it still remains Possible.

Any suggestions on how to make it happen?
I have quite a few.

But, understand, Jake, that the Enditmes is only from our mortal perspective…. Creation is Eternal, but, as mere mortals, we experience Creation as finite. Does this make any sense to you?

Shiver me timbers! Yes, of course! Well done Dan. No wait, is this a typo? crossing my fingers it isn't.

WOW I am so surprised that you would come around to this. Congratulations! I guess I should also take this as a compliment.... as I've been knocking that into you for a very long time. You were so reluctant to give it even an inch. Now to see you write it, Amazing! I do hope it is not a typo. This is a MAJOR change for you. And a doctrine that will effect other foundations of your hypothesis.

Now, one more major hurdle for you, Dan. But I sadly suspect you'll most likely never cross this line. - Eternal Sentience.


--------------

Off for the rest of the day.

Jake,

Typo?? It's rather more like..... read my lips...... I've always known that I was not a great communicator, but this does seem to take the cake. What is there about eternity that is not eternal??

I'm struggling to understand the root of this misunderstanding.......

I would have to say that the Bible, itself, is rather muddled on the distinctions between the temporal and eternal, and, probably, that none of us could have had a clue about this, until it was realized that the cosmic constant could be removed from Einstein's general theory of relativity.

Maybe there is no way to explain this issue to non-physicists, in which case the BPWH is in deep doo-doo.

The Bible is quite clear that the Earth, and certainly the corrupted Earth, is NOT eternal. I disagree, at least in part, and this is a fundamental issue with the BPWH.

Only from a purely temporal, mortal perspective can the Earth, itself, appear to be temporal or mortal, and this is true, even, or especially, of the 'corrupted' Earth!

How we love to forget our mistakes! A guilty conscience can, if left 'untreated', drive us to distraction, quite literally.

But wait...... isn't Hell supposed to be eternal, and isn't that a rather significant stain on Eternity?

But if, in fact, this is the best possible Creation, then every wart and mole of it must be numbered, in perpetuity. And, in order to understand how this works, we need to understand general relativity? Well, I think that, instead, the understanding of this aspect of Creation will make it a lot easier for everyone to understand GR, especially when it can be seen as merely a stepping stone for materialists to come to grips with the notion of Eternity.

I hope that Jake or somebody can help me to better communicate this idea. Jake does seem to be particularly concerned about the eternity of sentience. What does the BPWH say about this........?

Right off the bat, I can tell you that sentience will last for the optimal amount of 'time', whatever that may turn out to be.

To put this another way, I suspect that sentience will be transcended in some optimal manner. Does that mean that sentience will be cast aside? No, it does not. Rather, and I'm trying to think of an adequate analogy, it will be incorporated into something greater, such as what mystics claim to experience, beyond what even can be retained or accessed with a mortal mind.

What about Mt Everest and what about the Holocaust? How might they be retained? Each is, IMHO, an essential aspect of the BPW. We cannot understand the whole, without understanding its part. But, once we do understand the whole, the parts take on a very different aspect, even to the point of being almost invisible.

Consider the closeup view of part of a painting, which will appear as a jumble of colors, or of a single frame taken from a two-hour movie. And then try to imagine your difficulty in remembering that one little part, in the context of the whole. Of course, this analogy will apply only in the case of a coherent, meaningful whole.

But, NB, that this does not mean that our present feelings and intuitions are not without ultimate value or concern. There is that of God in each of us, and every microcosm does reflect the cosmos in an essential manner. The Eternal Present/Presence is already present in every shining moment.

But, does this mean that the ego experiences that you and I are having at this moment cannot be recovered, for whatever reason. In many or most instances, there would be little or no reason to recover random experiences, even if that made any logical sense. No experience exists without a context or a nearly infinite (customized?) horizon.

Let's suppose that we do become One with God....... Further, let us suppose that God could or would incarnate as Jesus, or as anyone else, for that matter. He is the question that I pose to us......... Could God reincarnate as Jesus? Or, more accurately, does this question even make any sense?

Right now, and for the first time, I'm suspecting that this may be a senseless question. How so......?

If God is essentially an eternal being, then the idea of God reincarnating as anything is like the idea of a square circle. It is not possible. This, however, does not mean that God has not squared the circle. This is a rather different kettle of fish, and I suspect that she has. But, does this mean that you and I are not, or could not be, reenactors of some sort? Yes, I suspect that this may be the case. We are looking at the problem from the wrong end. Only from our mortal, egocentric end does it seem to make sense. From the perspective of eternity, it does not. Instead, and what does make sense from both perspectives is that no experience is an experience other than sub-specie aeternitas. Comprene? If you do, then please explain it to me!

IOW, every moment, every experience necessarily has an infinite horizon. We already know that this is the case with words, and even with computer data sets, and this is the simplest explanation for the logical impossibility of computer intelligence, i.e. sentience and/or sapience. God is both the prism and the Source...... we are the rainbow. Outside of that context, red can never grasp blue, nor could you or I. If you and I were not born with that Universal Grammar, we could never learn a single word of any language. Tell me I'm wrong about this, and tell me that the Universal Grammar is not tantamount to the Universal Soul!!

Does this mean that we can, individually, only go around once? That I cannot come back as you, and vice versa? Well, neither can I come back as a lump of coal. If I came back as you, then I would be you, for the very first time. But, in our heart of hearts, and through God, we each have an unobstructed access to every bit of sapience and sentience that has ever been, or will be, experienced. That it just what it means to be God, and that which you do unto the least of you, that you also do unto 'Me'!


4:45----------

Maybe I'm going about Disclosure in the wrong way........ Rather than praying to God to call MJ12, to call CK, etc....... maybe it would be a lot simpler just to ask Aliyah to 'instruct' CK to call Jack, and to do so at our live taping session, within the next week or two. All I have to do is explain to her why this simple procedure might help to alleviate much of the suffering in the world, ASAP. But if Jack, or any of his friends read this post, then would that not obviate its intent? Not necessarily, not if CK can handle it with the requisite finesse, which would only require his utmost skill, and the taking of a certain employment risk. I am confident that Aliyah, being the very quick study that she is, could quickly rise to this occasion. No?

Would this not also enhance the immediacy/currency of the recording?

Ooops...... I see there is some ambiguity as to what is to happen when wrt the proposed session. But why not cut out the middleman, and just have Aliyah get on the phone with Jack, during the session? Are her powers of persuasion not sufficient unto this day? The only problem might be the 5hr time differential between EDT and GMT. We should take this into account.



(cont.)

The video was originally conceived by CK as a means of credentialing my representation of him at the ufo meeting, in November. I'm only suggesting that it be repurposed, in a somewhat more general context.......

It would be for 'deputizing' the A&D show, in the general context of eschatology and the Googa Magoogs. Our first action item would be to use A&D to then 'deputize' J&D, in the same context.

Might this not be viewed as carrying one of CK's jokes too far? But, see, that is part of the stratagem, of keeping CK on the federal reservation, while he is able to give others of us, who are less constrained, a nod and a wink that could be intrpreted in more than one way, knowing, at the same time, that the whole little drama was, quite plausibly, being vetted at the highest levels.


The other point, coming out of Sunday's meet up, was that it would not be smart to attempt to tie 4M/K/SoT/X2 to any particular crisis. It just has to stand on its own merits, within a very broad historical context. Once there is even a limited understanding of the cosmic B&S strategy, then those who are so informed are morally obliged to act reasonably upon that understanding. CK has been positioned to be a crucial facilitator in that regard, and wrt the PtB/MJ12. No? Prove me wrong!

The crucial test may fall to Aliyah to persuade Jack to notify his significant network, to this effect. And the time differential may be > 5hrs. Maybe this is what we were supposed to have accomplished on that abortive cruise. But the meeting with Jack had to come first, IMHO. And, given the fact that Aliyah is such a quick study, 12 days would probably have become redundant, and, surely, we don't want redundancy!

A&D need only to have a couple of convos prior to the filming, to facilitate our being on the same page. Can there be an A/J/D show in November? Presumably, CK would come along, but he could remain in an undisclosed location, at the undisclosed conference.

Are there any more pressing action items, at this point? Are we the gang that couldn't shoot straight? This is a reference to that event in Annapolis, before the dinner at the NatHab.


11:50-----------

A brief convo w/ A........

I will draw up a list of six points for us to focus on, at the session, posting them here, of course. She will research them, and then we will have another conversation in a few days. When she feels more comfortable with ufos and eschatology, she may be willing to join us at OM.

Hmmm...... let's see.......

1.) We gotta love those Googa Magoogs..... It is very interesting to see how metaphysics, myth and global/popular culture converge on some universal eschatological themes. And just what is that theme, in this case? It does have something to do with Satan and the Antichrist.

2.) Mind over matter.....? How will this work out, in the End?

3.) Why should there be an Eschaton, in the first place? Do we have to go to heaven? Why can't we all go back to the Garden of Eden, for instance, and then remain there, in perpetuity?

4.) How can this be anything like the best possible world, when there is so much suffering?

5.) What will be the Diclosure/Revelation/Disturbing-message? When and how should it be delivered? Might CK be a PoI, in this regard? Jack?

6.) 4M/K/SoT/X2? Why might this be important? How might this help us to avoid a Tribulation/Armageddon?

How is this for starters?


1pm----------

There was a brief convo w/ CK.......

He was driving with a passenger...... All I could get was something like Sydney Walton(?), Higgs Boson and Nobel Prize. Well, after a half hour of googling, I've found nothing even close.

CK suggested that I pose a question to SW, related to the Higgs. I said that I would take a rain check, until I could find something more specific about his background..... theorist, experimentalist, etc. But I would offer a comment...... to the effect that I and the general public are having a hard time understanding how something as tangible as mass/inertia can emerge from a mathematical formula. This, despite the fact that I had some understanding of how Peter Higgs had used the Meisner effect, in superconductors, as a model for his theory of the boson.

But, this only reflects upon the more general question, as posed by Stephen Hawking....... How does God breathe fire (life/spirit?) into the mathematics? This, in turn, takes us right back to the reductio ad absurdum of Max Tegmark's infinite universes, and whether God plays dice with reality/ontology, as discussed by Jack and me.

But the phone cut out before we could venture into the metaphysics.


1:45-----------

It does occur to me that no one, academic or otherwise, wishes to be publicly associated with CK, besides Gordon and me. We will SW a pass, in that regard. Maybe I should suggest a meeting, this evening. Ok, via text....... Are we holding our breath?
-----------


I don't think either A or I would have much trouble waxing poetic about any of the 6 topics. Which one might pose the most the most challenge? The main problem is that each one of them could easily take up a whole hour. Spending only ten minutes on each one is liable to generate as much heat as light, and then some. But the conversation has to begin somewhere.



(cont.)

Hi Dan Can u please check omf archive 1. I believe you will be happy to know that all the links are now working , need help with checking for problems on the links , when u get a free moment can you please do this thanks.

Animal

Animal2012,

Wow...... that is impressive! Yes, I will give it a try.....

Thank you!
------------


Despite the crying need for concision and precision, which often eludes even my personal grasp, I think it is much more important to establish some kind of bedside manner. No? The main thing is to establish some kind of personal rapport. This is where AP can shine. I will be grabbing for those coattails.....!


What about mind over matter? I got really bogged down with that, at Sam's. I've found no easy way to thread that needle. Maybe A can think of something. The notion that we might be dreaming, even when we are awake, strikes almost everyone as absurd.

We moderns have become rather comfortable with mind/matter dualism, despite its prima-facie incoherence.


3:40--------

OMG.......! http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/us/historian-says-piece-of-papyrus-refers-to-jesus-wife.html?hp




(cont.)

@ Jake

Re: “…..To believe we NEED divine intervention….we must think otherwise….”

It is my belief that we may not necessarily “need” such an intervention but we DO require a realignment of thinking. Perhaps ‘Divine Inspiration’ would suffice primarily by still allowing free will to guide our hands reawakened by vigor towards more sensible behavior.

Can you deny that Man needs such a moment in a world of desperately fragmented peoples?

How do you sit in a room attempting to have sensible dialog with extremists bent on world submission when they have a predilection to view you as cattle? Can such extremes ever coexist? How do you Bring all that is intrinsic to your beliefs, Jake, into a singularity involving all peoples? Do you actually believe we have the time to accomplish this looking at the world today? Mind you, not the capacity, the time.

Three factors, IMO create the majority of angst on this rock for its inhabitants; wealth/lack of, religious differences, and race. Until something PROFOUND occurs to ALL at the same time, allowing mankind a better perspective in unifying thought – this cycle with repeat with even greater after effects.

Materialism is truly a blithe on this world despite is past contributions towards innovation and advancing the technological aspects of our society. It is only logical to consider ‘what would replace it’ should the system currently in place flounder. Is it an age of immaterialism – in which people do not seek to possess things selfishly but to prosper together - a society of needs instead of want? So utopian my thoughts at times, I often mock myself for considering them. Still, therein lies a great fear at the end of the day, a current system must go asunder in order to rebirth of another.

Whoever said upgrading consciousness would be easy?

Eras, new ones taking the place of the previous ones, have always been part of our recorded history. We are unfortunately on edge of another and the poor PTB know the train is headed off the track and are powerless to stop the demise. Man the battlements - Chicken-Little - there will be plenty of fox on the prowl in those days.

MD02,

I don't think you're getting it. What is there about Gestalt Switch that you do not understand?

Do you understand the Copernican Revolution? Now, can you imagine a reversal of that revolution?

That's what I'm talking about, here. If you don't understand what I'm talking about, then your comments will only increase the confusion.

Please, stop, look, listen and ask questions, before making further confusing remarks!
-----------------


10am------------

From: CK
Date: September 18, 2012 9:49:00 PM EDT
To: Dan Smith
Cc: Princess Aliyah
Subject: Court Rules

In preparation for "an interview with the Princess," I thought it would be useful to remind you of a few simple court rules.
You may approach the Princess only after being formally announced.
You may speak to the Princess only after she speaks.
You must remain a suitable distance and not look directly at the Princess.
She may choose to face you during the event, or she may remain looking away.

Hmmm......... Along with my Peter Pan getup, I can be the eunuch in the harem!

Subject: re. CK? and A&D?

On Sep 19, 2012, at 10:32 AM, Dan Smith > wrote:

Sam, 

When I don't get enough sleep, I, too, get hung up on the details........ 

Everything I say, needs to be taken in the largest possible context, and you need to be mentally engaged, in order to do the necessary holistic thinking.  

It's like with your insistence, on Saturday, that I define 'immaterialism'.  This is how lawyers are trained to interrogate hostile witnesses, on the stand.  I'm not on the stand, and I'm not a hostile witness.  What I am practicing is a bedside manner, and, yes, the patient does have, medically speaking, a terminal cancer.  Our mortal time on Earth is about finished.  We are about to transition to immortal time, which is kinda like immaterial time.  And, no, this is not easy to understand.  It can be understood, if at all, metaphorically and holistically.  

You specific questions, in the subject line, refer to my prolix way of speaking indirectly about certain critical items, such as about my own identity.  

Before asking further questions, I would strongly urge that you go back to that 46' tape, and take another stab at it, but listen to it more like you would listen to a duet, perhaps, rather than as a courtroom proceeding.  And, yes, in that particular instance, a couple of minutes on google would save you nine minutes of confusion.  

Is it really too late to ask you to try to stretch your mind, just a bit more?  Then, maybe, the questions you ask will sound lest hostile or peremptory.  After forty years, you are just beginning to focus on a dialog, ongoing for, at least, that same amount of time.  Perhaps, you don't understand who I am dialoging with.  That is, actually, a serious question.  

Dan 


On Sep 18, 2012, at 11:30 PM, "Sam wrote:

Dan,

What do CK and A&D stand for?   You said to use Google for your acronyms.  Google gave me no hits that seemed relevant.

What are Googa Magoogs?  Google sent me to your post for Nov. 10, 2010.  But I did not find the words anywhere in it.

-- as used in your recent post:

>>>The video was originally conceived by CK as a means of credentialing my representation of him at the ufo meeting, in November. I'm only suggesting that it be repurposed, in a somewhat more general context.......

It would be for 'deputizing' the A&D show, in the general context of eschatology and the Googa Magoogs. Our first action item would be to use A&D to then 'deputize' J&D, in the same context.<<<
...

Thanks.

Sam

(cont.)