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The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

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The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by ScaRZ on Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:05 am

First topic message reminder :

Hello everyone, I've decided to give Part 3 a go if Bren doesn't care. I just hope OM can attract some of the old members as well as some new members.

The first thing I want to post in the Part 3 Thread are some links of the late David Flynn's work. David's work has been some of my favorite for many years. I never knew David personally but was a member at a couple of his forums. I got interested in his work back a long time ago after visiting his Watcher Web Site.

David's twin brother Mark did drop by OMF a few years back and did post a thank you post in The Bible,UFOs,ET and the Ancients Thread for posting some of David's work....."I believe it was one of David's videos."

David died This year and I really believe he left behind a great deal of material that is for us today and on into the future. I just hope one day I will come to the point of understanding in depth a great amount of his work.

This is a series at http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/ and I will continue to post the parts as they come out. I will only post a snippet of each part, so be sure and click on the links for the full articles.


Part 1 http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/flynn-one.htm

Remembering David Flynn

A new series on the research and findings of a modern Christian genius

by Thomas Horn


"This is the first entry into a series on the works and discoveries of David Eric Flynn, a modern Christian genius who died at the age of 49 this past January 22, 2012 after a short battle with cancer. For nearly two decades David published original and groundbreaking research on his renowned Watchers Website."

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Part 2 http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/flynn-two.htm


A Note from Steven Quayle


"David Flynn, like Isaac Newton before him, was a “GIANT” in the understanding of the God of Creations’ infinite majesty, power, and presence throughout the universe displayed. Every generation has its heaven-sent “Time-Keepers” to remind the world that we all have an appointed time and season of revelation and purpose to all that we see around us. It is as if the Almighty God holds specific time locks to His revelations and specific messengers tasked with bringing it forth."

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Part 3 http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/flynn-three.htm

Notes from Mark Flynn


"One of our high school history teachers brought in a retired Air Force officer who gave a talk about incidents that occurred in 1967 and 1975 where entire “flights” of Minuteman ICBMs were simultaneously and inexplicably shut down immediately after UFOs were sighted in the vicinity of Malmstrom Air force base."

"In addition to the stories that we heard about the goings on around Great Falls, our dad told us a story that he had heard from Dr. Jesse Marcel Jr. while they happened to be working at the same hospital. When Jesse was a kid, his dad came home very late one night and woke everybody up to show them some parts that he had gathered from the site of a crashed spaceship."

"Dad related the story to us in a very matter-of-fact style. Nothing suggested that Jesse’s account might have been an exaggeration or just a story. It was just two colleagues, Dr. Flynn and Dr. Marcel, having a conversation."

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Part 4 http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/flynn-four.htm

From the works of David Flynn

"The Jewish sages explained that Cain built the first city and therefore was the founder of civilization. Cain named this city Enoch after his first son (Genesis 4:16–17). Also according to the sages, the names of Enoch’s grandson and great grandson, Mehujael and Methusael (man smitten by Elohim and man who is of Elohim) shows that for a time the knowledge of Elohim, the name of God recorded in Genesis, was preserved, but soon disappeared. Their reasoning was that the lineage of Cain had died in the flood. However, the human race survived through Noah and his family descended from Seth, Adam’s third son. The Mystics focused on the two Enochs that lived before the great deluge of Noah. The first, the son of Cain, had transferred the sacred knowledge from Eden into the first civilization that was later destroyed due to its corruption and evil. The second Enoch, from the line of Seth, preserved the pure knowledge apart from this corruption. This body of knowledge had been incorporated in ancient structures geometrically. Its decipherment needed a key thought to exist in a universal language that was lost. Ironically, the event that caused its loss corresponded with the development of writing and the birth of civilization. Although biblical chronology renders it impossible for Noah to have met Enoch from the line of Seth, he would have known Methuselah, Enoch’s son. Methuselah lived for 967 years. There was a belief among biblical scholars that Noah would have possessed the learning of Enoch, particularly because it had been recorded in writing."

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Part 5 http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/flynn-five.htm

From the works of David Flynn


"Newton devoted his entire life in the quest of a pure science and theology. If he had discovered the prisca sapientia, and further evidence will show that he did, he would not have resorted to leaving such a discovery in the hands of the unworthy. It is likely a unifying theory of the laws of creation with the laws of God would be best suited to a code. This form of writing and encryption, in Newton’s reasoning, was the modality in which the Bible itself had been written. As God revealed the Law of Moses to men with supernatural power, and its words revered and protected, a unifying law of creation should be presented in like manner. Similarly, the dispensation to men of such a powerful truth would only take place with the full intent and providence of God; Newton , however, would not write of its discovery openly. He would seal it within his papers exploring the laws and the creation of God. These vast works, ranging from chronology, natural philosophy, and theology suggested its presence, visible only to those given the eyes to see."

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Part 6 http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/flynn-six.htm

From the works of David Flynn

"For Newton , every theoretical revelation that he achieved stood as verification of Daniel’s prophecy as reads in Dan12:4: “Even to the time of the end…knowledge shall be increased.” Newton viewed the book of Daniel as a missive extending through time to him, addressed to his intellect, a mind divinely inspired to value and solve its riddles."

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Part 7 http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/flynn-seven.htm

From the works of David Flynn

"For as the few and obscure Prophecies concerning Christ’s first coming were for setting up the Christian religion, many and clear Prophecies concerning the things to be done at Christ’s second coming are not only for predicting, but also for effecting a recovery and re-establishment of the long-lost truth." —Issac Newton, Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel and the Apocalypse of St. John

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Part 8 http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/flynn-eight.htm

From the works of David Flynn

"Many scholars—even before Newton—believed that the geometry of the future temple of Jerusalem and the “heavenly city of Jerusalem” of Revelation possessed some key to the unfolding of prophecy itself. God as a “divine geometer” pervaded early Christian thought. This was the belief that both the natural creation and architecture of the temple were from the same designer. The temple was, then, a microcosm of the universe in which God’s structure of time was represented both symbolically and geometrically. The Bible records that the Israelites constructed of two temples, the first built by Solomon and the second by Zerubbabel. In Revelation, Daniel and John mention a third future temple existing at the second coming of Christ. Some theologians believe that Ezekiel described this third temple in chapter 40 through the end of his book. Still others contend that Ezekiel’s temple is in fact a fourth temple that will be built after the great cataclysms described in Revelation. However, theologians are in agreement that Ezekiel’s temple is designated for the 1,000 years of peace after the return of Christ, termed the “millennium” in Christianity."

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Part 9 http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/flynn-nine.htm

From the works of David Flynn

"The prisca sapienta correlation between time and distance in the prophecy of the book of Daniel should also relate to the Revelation of John. Newton viewed the book of Revelation in the New Testament as a mirror of Daniel’s prophecies in the Old Testament. Revelation recapitulated the theme of Babylon’s fall and focused on the temple as a unifying point of prophetic dimension, a fact that Newton closely detailed in Observations. Both Daniel and John addressed the theme of time of the end and the return of Christ:"

"The Apocalypse of John is written in the same style and language with the Prophecies of Daniel, and hath the same relation to them which they have to one another, so that all of them together make but one complete Prophecy; and in like manner it consists of two parts, an introductory Prophecy, and an interpretation thereof."

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Part 10 http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/flynn-ten.htm

From the works of David Flynn

"The most prominent feature of the Ark of the Covenant, as well every “ark” found in the Bible, is its movement over the Earth from one point to another under the navigation of God."

"An Ark carried Moses along the Nile to the daughter of Pharaoh. The Ark of Noah navigated the deluge to the dry summit of Mount Ararat . The Ark of the Covenant traveled before the tribes of the Exodus to the Promised Land. All three contained “seeds” for the future of mankind designed for planting at their destination. All carried or were followed by a portion of humanity under God’s protection, leading to a realm of life and promise out of a land of destruction and death."

"The movement from one point to another across the earth necessarily produces an arc, as the Earth itself is a sphere. Speed is measured by the length of time it takes to travel over a set distance. These concepts are most commonly defined by the physics of Newton’s Calculus, which determines instantaneous rates of change, and may be used to find the velocity (rate of change of distance with respect to time) of an object moving through space or the slope of a curve at any given point. Calculus is necessary for finding arc length and measuring the area of a region bounded by a curve."

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Part 11 http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/flynn-eleven.htm

From the works of David Flynn


"In the Gregorian calendar, AD is an abbreviation of the Latin Anno Domini, meaning “in the year of our Lord.” Apart from the birth of Christ, on which the modern calendar is based, his resurrection is the most important event in Christianity. Most chronologists assign the age of Christ’s death and resurrection to 33 years. Newton also agreed with this chronology and listed the passion of Jesus as having occurred no later than AD 34 in chapter 11 of Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel and the Apocalypse of St. John."

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Part 12 http://www.raidersnewsupdate.com/flynn-twelve.htm

From the works of David Flynn


"When Constantine converted pagan Rome to Catholicism, he superimposed Christian motifs over pre-existing sun worship cults. He himself worshipped the god Sol Invictus (the invincible sun) until his death. Constantine declared dies Solis, “Sun-day,” as the official day of rest for the empire on March 7, AD 321, minted coins bearing Helios crowned with the spiked rays, and established Christ’s nativity on the pagan date of the birth of the sun, December 25."






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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by ScaRZ on Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:33 pm

mdonnall2002 wrote:

How would an Angel of God - capable of such greatness and power be Held at bay by a mortal man and require assistance from Michael?


The thing is mdonnall the title of Prince isn't only used for a mortal man. The title is also used for High Class Messengers or Sons of God with authority.

As you can read in Daniel 10 Michael the archangel is called one of the chief princes. Michael isn't the only one but is one of a group of "Chief Princes". How many total chief princes there are we do not know.

Daniel 10:13........"But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia."


As I've talked about in the past I believe there were 70 Sons of God given each one of the 70 nations to rule over after what occurred at The Tower of Babel. I believe this Prince of Persia written about in Daniel 10 was the Son of God who was given that nation of Persia.

The world was divided up according to the number of Sons of God that descended with God. Seventy was the number of members within this particular order, this is why the Table of Nations of Genesis 10 lists exactly seventy descendent's of Shem, Ham, and Japheth, who made up the nations that were separated on the earth after the flood of Noah.



Genesis 11:4

And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.


Genesis 11:6-7

The Lord said, 'Behold, they are one people and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. Come,let us go down and there confuse their language so that they will not understand one another's speech.



In the Book of Jasher which is a non-canonical book that is mentioned in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18, it tells who the [Us] is that is referred to by God in Genesis 11.


Jasher 9:31

And they built the tower and the city, and they did this thing daily until many days and years were elapsed. And God said to the seventy angels who stood foremost before him , to those who were near to him, saying, Come let us descend and confuse their tongues, that one man shall not understand the language of his neighbor,’ and they did so unto them.



We then find in the Greek Septuagint Deuteronomy 32:8 that God divided the people into seventy nations, the same number of Sons of God Those seventy angels that descended with God.


Deuteronomy 32:8

When the Most High divided the nations, when he separated the sons of Adam, He set the bounds of the nations according to the number of the angels of God.


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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by Bard on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:20 pm

Thanks Scars


Genesis 11:6-7

The Lord said, 'Behold, they are one people and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. Come,let us go down and there confuse their language so that they will not understand one another's speech.

What else can we take from this verse?

1. Man, was once unified and under one language.
2. ‘And now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them’

According to the narrative of the city of Babel – it was wrought with vanity as well as a like mindedness post flood, hence it’s later destruction, by the winds of the Lord. Man was scattered across the globe afterwards with different languages. Was this an admission that ‘nothing’ would be impossible EVEN for vain/wicked men if they worked together? A literal translation would certainly infer this, correct?

‘Come let us descend and confuse their tongues’ said the Lord. How would this be accomplished if not within the mind, overtly or subtlety? Tongues cannot be confused, only the mind can be.

Off topic thought - Is there enough circumstantial evidence from abduction/experience accounts that could mimic tales from ages past?

The Lord perfectly lays out what is possible if people work together as one. ‘nothing would be impossible’.

And here’s one final question that could expel me from a more practical theological establishment:

When the Lord and his angels came to confuse the minds of man – did He intervene with the free will given to Man - and by doing so did he create more strife and suffering until this very day?

Free will does not seem so free if it falls outside the Will of the Lord.

Keep Safe,

Edit: Clarity

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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by ScaRZ on Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:07 am

mdonnall,I will begin by saying Noah and his sons were told by The LORD to replinish the whole earth. That is not only to fill it up, but also to restore it. It never was for them to stay in one central area of the earth. They were to spread out into all regions of the earth.

Once we come to this period of time of The Tower of Babel we can quickly see they are gathering not spreading outward as The LORD had instructed. Nimrod had become the central figure in bringing about this world order. The LORD knows the heart of man better than man can ever come close to understanding his own nature. Man is rebellious by nature and loves doing his will and not the Will of The Father.


Genesis 11:4........"And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth."


As we can read in the underlined portion of the above verse,man had knowledge they were to spread out into the whole world. They didn't want to do as they knew they were suppose to do.

Now read the highlighted red words.....let us make us a name. What these people had in mind was all about manifesting independence of The LORD with Nimrod as their rebel leader.


It certainly didn't take that long after the flood until we come to this point did it?

We are suppose to be one in The LORD not one with man outside of The LORD.

Man coming together as one outside of The LORD is antichrist in nature. This is an (instead of) world system,this is Babylon.

antichrist....."Instead of".......A replacement.

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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by Bard on Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:06 pm

ScaRZ wrote:It certainly didn't take that long after the flood until we come to this point did it?

I certainly concur. It only took somewhere between 1-400 yrs post flood it seems. Yet, Please, Give me a literal translation of this in your opinion. If He is speaking directly - is it not so?

'Behold, they are one people and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them.

What did the Lord infer, Scarz, by the text in red? Was He speaking Literally or figuratively?

I don't think you purposefully neglected to answer it directly which is why I post it again. We always hear about literal and figurative translations - so many biblical arguments hinge on such differences. I think we all, but me personally, would like for you to illustrate.
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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by ScaRZ on Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:05 pm

mdonnall2002 wrote:

Off topic thought - Is there enough circumstantial evidence from abduction/experience accounts that could mimic tales from ages past?

I really haven't studied abduction enough to offer much. I'm sure some of these people have experienced something......"But what is it,and who or what is doing the abducting?"


mdonnall2002 wrote:

When the Lord and his angels came to confuse the minds of man – did He intervene with the free will given to Man - and by doing so did he create more strife and suffering until this very day?

I certainly believe The LORD gave the population a universal language. When they continued to rebel The LORD stepped in and took away the universal language (tongue)in order to have them move away from one another. When they couldn't understand one another a massive confusion (babel)was the order.

I believe at this point The LORD disinherited these nations and turned them over to the 70 Sons of God and they spread out into different regions of the earth carrying with them each a different language (tongue).

One day very soon The LORD would choose someone to bring forth a nation he would call his nation. Through this nation would come The Only Begotten (Unique) Son of God who gathers from all nations,peoples,and tongues. They no longer are disinherited but are grafted in.

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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by ScaRZ on Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:16 pm

mdonnall2002 wrote:
ScaRZ wrote:It certainly didn't take that long after the flood until we come to this point did it?

I certainly concur. It only took somewhere between 1-400 yrs post flood it seems. Yet, Please, Give me a literal translation of this in your opinion. If He is speaking directly - is it not so?

'Behold, they are one people and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them.

What did the Lord infer, Scarz, by the text in red? Was He speaking Literally or figuratively?

I don't think you purposefully neglected to answer it directly which is why I post it again. We always hear about literal and figurative translations - so many biblical arguments hinge on such differences. I think we all, but me personally, would like for you to illustrate.


mdonnall,I just take things a step at a time. I come back when I get some free time and continue if I feel I haven't already covered it. Sometimes I can see it so plain in my answer but others don't.

I just answered a couple more of your questions and will get to this one as soon as I can.
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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by Bard on Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:24 pm

No Rush - we must have both been posting together. I was not in a guff, trust me. Take all the time you need. OMv3 is moving much like a creek. Which is a sigh of relief.

Maybe we can garner some attention. Smile
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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by ScaRZ on Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:10 pm

mdonnall,I enjoy discussing these topics. Thank you for showing some interest.


To put it quick and to the point I believe these words refer to man would conclude that they could do anything they set their minds to. The LORD knew this led away from him and towards man "Himself". In other words man doesn't need God for anything. Man now is God in his darkened heart.

The tower can be seen as an attempt being equal with God. Remember always The Shining One is a perfect example of this very deed.


Isaiah 14:12-14

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.



Notice the five "I Wills",it's all about "Self"......."Not needing a relationship with God,not needing God."
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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by Bard on Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:27 pm

ScaRZ wrote:mdonnall,I enjoy discussing these topics. Thank you for showing some interest.

I believe these words refer to man would conclude that they could do anything they set their minds to.


Good Scarz

I respect your opinion, but a Literal translation would not infer one to, "conclude that they could do anything"

I think the Lord was pretty clear. He did not say:

"and now (They believe) (They assume) (They conclude) nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them."

He was quite clear and concise in that verse: 'and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them'

Within a literal translation we normally are not allowed to convey our 'belief' it may be something other than what it is....

I must discharge for now - duties call.

Just look at me as the day laborer, ever so insignificant, picking cherries, which I honestly hate to eat.

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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by ScaRZ on Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:17 am

mdonnall2002 wrote:

I don't think you purposefully neglected to answer it directly which is why I post it again. We always hear about literal and figurative translations - so many biblical arguments hinge on such differences. I think we all, but me personally, would like for you to illustrate.

As written above you ask me if I would illustrate,so this is what I attempted to do and continue to do. I see most things as having a physical side as well as a spiritual. The question you brought up is a very good question and will receive a number of responses from different people.

I believe the answer I gave will come together in a completed picture. God can know the outcome and man can conclude that nothing is restrained from them if he has faith to get the job done.

Man certainly needs a large workforce as well as great knowledge to accomplish a feat as building this city and tower. If these men came together and were able to build this city and tower then they can do anything. Once they could not communicate the great workforce was no longer able to do the job.

This is where I believe it is going. Man could (can!) only be restrained from their enterprises, and hindered from executing them, by divine power. And this is what was done......."The LORD stepped in and put a stop at this point in time."


Look at what was stopped in The Garden long before this city and tower event. They were removed or sent forth from The Garden. The LORD once again stopped Adam and Eve after their rebellion from finding a way back to The Tree of Life at this point in time.


Thinking of man able to accomplish anything I read the words of Jesus Christ and see that door wide open. I don't see his words only as spiritual in nature but also as physical.


Matthew 17:20........"And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you."


Man can stand on one side of a great river and have faith with works to move mountains or whatever it takes to build a bridge across that great river. He can build towers into the sky,and he also can visit the stars.


How advanced were the people before the flood?...."I believe much more than most ever imagine."

How much of the pre-flood knowledge remained after the case?

By spreading the people outward into the earth at Babel God was able to prevent man from gaining more knowledge too quickly. The workforce split into small nations instead of one massive unit. Those with great minds separated from one another.

With every great mind on earth together in accord and of one language,plus a massive workforce nothing would be restrained from them accomplishing without divine power stepping in to prevent it.





Last edited by ScaRZ on Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by ScaRZ on Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:24 pm

Can Unbelievers Ever Please God? Part 2


Be sure and click the link for the full article.


http://michaelsheiser.com/TheNakedBible/2012/10/unbelievers-god-part-2/



While I won’t repeat what I said in Part 1, the comments to that post have left me thinking that some readers still don’t understand what I’m saying and not saying – and so are missing the point of the question. So, by way of review …

What I’m Not Saying and Not Asking

I’m not saying that an unbeliever can do things to please God so that the result is salvation. I’m not suggesting an unbeliever can merit saving grace (which is oxymoronic). I’m therefore not asking the question of whether an unbeliever can do something that results in their no longer being “under wrath” or under less wrath.
Consequently, verses that are clearly in the context of “coming to God” in a faith sense (like Hebrews 11:6) have nothing to do with either my question or the question. That verse (and others like them) cannot therefore be a rebuttal to my contention that unbelievers can please God.

What I’m Saying

What I’m saying is not complicated, though I can (again) tell from comments that readers are over-thinking it. I’m asking whether an unbeliever can do *anything* in life that makes God glad, or happy, or pleased. Does God ever look at something an unbeliever does and take pleasure in it? Or is it the case, as the theologians I quoted in Part 1 insist, that no matter what an unbeliever does, God takes no pleasure in it at all. I simply don’t believe that, and I think there are scriptural examples that support my view—and therefore deny the other (more common in evangelical circles) view.

Sketching My Argument

So how would I argue that unbelievers can do things in which God takes pleasure? I’ll start with what I think is clear case of my position.
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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by ScaRZ on Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:27 am

I can agree with Michael Heiser in answering his question with what he lays out of what the question is and isn't. A lot of people really never answer the question,they only steer away from the real question.

A man/woman will not always do right,no matter if they are believers or non-believers,not that all can never do right. When they do right does this please God?...."I believe it can."

I believe Jesus went straight to the heart of this issue in Matthew 7.


Matthew 7:9-11

Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?



Jesus is certainly pointing to the fact that they are evil but they can give good gifts. If Jesus is telling us they are good gifts,then he sees them as good. If they are good are they not pleasing?


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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by Jake Reason on Wed Oct 10, 2012 8:11 am

Thanks ScaRZ for posting Michael's answer.

I just lost a long reply post, by inadvertently hitting an 'f' key on the keyboard. Too much to rewrite now. Oh well

Verses like;
"God so loved the world...."
"All have sinned and come short of the glory of God...."


these and others fundamentals, pretty much answer the question.

The concept of "pleasing God" is an extremely rare meme within Canadian Christianity. Other than Jehovah Witnesses, who incorporate it daily into their practice of faith. For the vast majority of Christianity in Canada the question is virtually non-existent. IOW, it is not prevalent within the Canadian Christian culture to talk about "pleasing God".

I am curious about this ScaRZ (and any others who might respond here) perhaps you could help answer;

1. Is this question (the concept of pleasing God) a relatively common thought on the minds of evangelicals in the USA?

2. Do you find certain denominations are more prone to contemplate and talk about it, than others denominations?

Thanks



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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by ScaRZ on Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:16 pm

Hello Jake,I will give my thoughts. I can not answer for evangelicals in the USA. I think as just about anything else,it all depends on who you are talking to.

I believe many think when the question comes up about "Pleasing God" they see the red flag of trying to do something through works that will bring about salvation.

This was not what Michael Heiser's question was about,but people for some reason have a tough time separating them. Of coarse his question wasn't even about believers in the first place,but that is where most enjoy jumping right from the start. I find most non-believers will jump here very quickly to derail the question.



Just to show another side away from non-believers,I will look at it in the very camp of The Father and The Son.

Did Jesus (The Son)please The Father by going to John The Baptist and being baptized?....."Sure he did".


Matthew 3:16-17

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.



2 Peter 1:17

For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.




Jesus going to the cross pleased The Father,because it was the Father's Will. Jesus wasn't about pleasing himself or doing his will. It was all about doing the Will of The Father and pleasing The Father.



Can believers please God?....."Sure they did and still can".


There is no way I as a believer have a free pass either. I do not always please God just because I'm a believer.


Can a believer not please God?......."Take no further look than David." God was certainly not pleased with David lusting after Bathsheba and following up with having her husband Uriah killed to have her for himself.

Can a believer please God?......."Did not this same David please God many times?"



Does it please God for non-believers to become believers?........"I don't see how it can't".

Once a person becomes a believer is it that they can't please God anymore?

So if I become a believer and it pleases God, why would I never be able to please God again as a believer?......."Makes no sense to me".



Some can sit and bear little fruit while some bear much fruit. Does bearing fruit please God?...."I certainly believe it does."


Are we not to be "Imagers of God?


Can believers please God more than some or less than some?....."Scripture certainly appears to point in this direction." Isn't it better to take those talents and build upon them or bury them in the ground?......"Which pleases God more?"



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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by Jake Reason on Thu Oct 11, 2012 4:03 pm

Nicely put, ScaRZ. Concur

I think changing the word "pleasing" to "glorifying" can resolve a lot of questions.
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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by Bard on Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:08 pm

Jake:

beginning at post 50 Pg.4

"Genesis 11:6-7

The Lord said, 'Behold, they are one people and they all have the same language. And this is what they began to do, and now nothing which they purpose to do will be impossible for them. Come,let us go down and there confuse their language so that they will not understand one anothers speech."

Curious if you could add to this discussion - Scarz and I were having.

Michael H - may have been the initiator of the discussion, but I feel there may something to flesh out within this verse. There is a woolly mammoth in the room currently. I think you will see from my inferences in what I am staring at.


EDIT: Spelling




Last edited by mdonnall2002 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by Jake Reason on Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:22 pm

Hi mdonnall,

I followed you and ScaRZ' dialog closely, and with interest. I understand your feeling that something is still left missing with "fleshing out this verse".

My first thought was the same as ScaRZ. ie: inclusive of the 70 Angel Overlords and Nimrod's Luciferian mimicking ambitions.

ScaRZ is truly a scholar. And I have some views that may add to his thoughtful experienced replies. I hadn't jumped into the discussion because Dan Smith has been pulling me into his, Jack Sarfatti and RP discussions.

I'll respond to you sometime over the weekend.

In the meantime, I'm currently watching the U.S. Vice-Presidential debate.

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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by Bard on Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:20 pm

No worries, Jake.

Prioritize. Endeavors with DS certainly take precedence.

I am just trying to Flesh out something. Normally, when the Lord speaks - We are to take it in a LITERAL fashion. Here, it seems the literal interpretation of scripture is purposefully being neglected mainly for the 'intentions' of the Lord by His actions.


RED LETTERS of God - so overlooked?

Should we not take them in a literal sense? I see no way to figuratively rationalize this verse considering He is not speaking in parable either.

Still, several questions went unanswered or left unfulfilled.

Is free will truly free - if God imposes His will that is in direct conflict with the choice of man? Is free will the lip service of the modern age to better rationalize this tepid balance?

Why is the literal Red Letters of God - apparently glossed over?

Why are we not taking His words literally?




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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by ScaRZ on Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:24 am

I see the verse as literal. Much of it hinges on the version of The Bible you are reading. Lets take that same verse and look at The King James Version,New King James Version and also The Greek Septuagint Compiled from the Translation by Sir Lancelot C. L. Brenton 1851. You will maybe begin to understand why I see things as I do. In my opinion it is very clear what is going on.

You used the English Standard Version (©2001)

Genesis 11:6

And the LORD said, “Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language, and this is only the beginning of what they will do. And nothing that they propose to do will now be impossible for them.



KJV

Genesis 11:6........"And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them,which they have imagined to do."


As you can read "impossible" is now "restrained" in the KJV of The Bible.


NKJV

Genesis 11:6........"And the LORD said, "Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them."


Now we have the word "withheld".


The Greek Septuagint

Genesis 11:6........" And the Lord said, Behold, there is one race, and one lip of all, and they have begun to do this, and now nothing shall fail from them of all that they may have undertaken to do."


Now the word is "fail".


As I mentioned above it is very clear to "Me" what is going on.

The LORD saw the need to not stand still on this issue. The LORD took a stand to restrain their actions, withhold their actions ,make it fail,or make it impossible for them to succeed........."Or it would have succeeded."


Did The LORD want them to succeed?....."No way".

Did The LORD want to make sure it would fail?....."Without a doubt",and The LORD made sure it would fail.


Do we as a good father not restrain our children from always doing as they imagine or propose to do?......"Sure we do".

Do we not see as parents that on many occasions we must step in and take free will from our children?......."Without a doubt".



Does The LORD always give humans free will to do everything they imagine or propose?......."It is very clear in scripture that he doesn't."


How much is free will and how much isn't?......."Your guess is as good as mine."


Did not The LORD many times in scripture restrain or withhold humans from being successful?......."Certainly".


Does not The LORD also cause or move things along several times in The Bible for a final outcome The LORD desires?......"Yes".


Even Jesus Christ spoke of shorting the days or no flesh would be saved.

I have long wondered if The LORD never restrained,never once stepped in and mankind was successful with all his imagined or proposed acts would we be here today?......"And I'm only speaking of after The Flood in the days of Noah."

As I've mentioned before,I believe man can and will be successful with his imagined or proposed acts if not for divine power restraining them.






Last edited by ScaRZ on Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by Bard on Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:32 am

@Scarz

Yes, I see that you get my drift.

And now we can see that Free Will is and never was truly free. It has always been conditional. ‘Free Will to do God’s Will’ has always been the path. Individuals choose to spin the semantics to suit a more wholesome belief.

As Sons and Daughters of God – part of Him, logically, remains within our creation. Looking at the sons and daughters of our own design – we know this to be true and factual. “in His image.”

“and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do."

God admits to this. This line of scripture is telling us – we are more like him than ever realized. Just as a flesh and blood father must direct, so does He. And yes, as you illustrated, a son or daughter of mine, is never truly FREE.

God illustrates - the POTENTIAL of man as being UNLIMITED and He would not allow it, within the form it existed in at that time. Whoever said that Fathers were fair?

How many in the clergy would dare to speak/teach such things? Some lessons can be overlooked, I suppose. Why do so many proclaim to be in such wonderful possession of Free Will? It is beyond my grasp.

Many, just like you, believe we held a greater past than we realize. I hold similar belief.

Trying God’s patience? Only He would know.
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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by ScaRZ on Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:46 am

Yes mdonnall,I believe you and I are closer than we may have first thought. Sometimes written words don't spell it out as clearly as we had hoped.

I'm so glad you brought up the questions you did. Through your question I now have studied the subject at more detail, and that is a very good thing.


mdonnall you wrote........"God admits to this. This line of scripture is telling us – we are more like him than ever realized."


I agree with you once again mdonnall. We now know good and evil.


Genesis 3:22........"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"

Adam (The man)with this knowledge now takes it with him out into the earth. He takes it with him but only in a mortal body because of the judgments The LORD placed upon him. The man is barred from The Tree of Life.


Look at our past,look at our present and we see the knowing of good and evil comes with great consequences. Give us the ability of possessing eternity in sin and as the old saying goes........"Boy O'Boy!"

If there are other creatures out there somewhere,we would find them wouldn't we?......"Anything we propose,anything we imagine "Will" be ours."

Will we only do good with our knowledge?......"All one needs to do is look at our track record."


Knowing of evil is not sin. But can we ever get to the point of knowing of evil and not sin?......"This I believe will be a reality one day." Knowing of evil but choosing good. I'm talking about the eternal life that God has in mind,not what man proposes or imagines.



I believe man is working on bypassing Jesus Christ (The Door) and climbing up another way?.........."Eternal life by another way." The below verse comes to my mind every time I think of this.


John 10:1........"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber."


When I think of this I can't help but think of The Tower of Babel. Attempting to make a name for themselves and the quest to reach where God is........"Without God".



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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by Admin on Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:25 am

This is an excellent conversation, guys. I think with regards to free-will that it has for lack of better term, "free-will within reason" and the parameters of reason depend greatly upon collective maturity, self-control, adherence to responsibility, wide-spread respect & moral conduct, etc. The great potential of mankind still lies within but the extent it is allowed to be realized or exercised, depends upon self-development and positive achievement...the within-reason. Free-will is personal choice applied within that reason; those expected, delineated parameters.



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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by Bard on Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:47 pm

ScaRZ wrote:Yes mdonnall,I believe you and I are closer than we may have first thought. Sometimes written words don't spell it out as clearly as we had hoped.

I'm so glad you brought up the questions you did. Through your question I now have studied the subject at more detail, and that is a very good thing.

Within the interplay we all benefit from the exchange to some degree.

Now we have:

1. Genesis 3:22........"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"

2. “and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do."

Why does God place such emphasis on us being as He/them?
Why does God confirm Nothing is impossible for us?

Why would an all knowing and all powerful God Concern himself with the trivial aspects of fleshy beings?

And Why would HE need to enlist 'them' - in aiding Him - to "confuse the tongues of man" and divide us?

In all places at all times with unlimited power? A God with an army of 'them'?
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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by Bard on Sun Oct 14, 2012 6:03 pm

Admin wrote: The great potential of mankind still lies within but the extent it is allowed to be realized or exercised, depends upon self-development and positive achievement...the within-reason.

You and I see through the same eyes, oftentimes, but tragically, far too many are anchored to systems of enslavement passed down from ancient times. When wealth relinquishes its death-grip on mankind's throat - we have a chance.
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Re: The Bible, UFOs, ET and the Ancients Part 3

Post by ScaRZ on Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:30 am

mdonnall2002 wrote:
ScaRZ wrote:Yes mdonnall,I believe you and I are closer than we may have first thought. Sometimes written words don't spell it out as clearly as we had hoped.

I'm so glad you brought up the questions you did. Through your question I now have studied the subject at more detail, and that is a very good thing.

Within the interplay we all benefit from the exchange to some degree.

Now we have:

1. Genesis 3:22........"And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"

2. “and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do."

Why does God place such emphasis on us being as He/them?
Why does God confirm Nothing is impossible for us?

Why would an all knowing and all powerful God Concern himself with the trivial aspects of fleshy beings?

And Why would HE need to enlist 'them' - in aiding Him - to "confuse the tongues of man" and divide us?

In all places at all times with unlimited power? A God with an army of 'them'?


I get this feeling no matter how large amount or how small amount I lay out it's just not hitting home for you. Most of your questions above I feel have been answered or I have given my opinion.

Am I correct in assuming you are more interested in those with The LORD and their role in all this. In other words,why does The LORD need to enlist these Sons of God in this or anything else?

The LORD uses or enlist his creation......."Did,does,and will. Why does The LORD need believers to be kings and priest during the millennium?

I see The Kingdom of Heaven,The Kingdom of God as just that......."A Kingdom"......A government of God. Each creation as pieces of that Kingdom. I see different ranks,talents,jobs,and offices. I certainly do not view this as wings on my back sitting around doing "Nothing" for The LORD. Why have a creation if you don't use or enlist them in being a true part of A Kingdom?


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