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Where did all the Open Minds Forum members go?

Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:29 pm by Admin

With Open Minds Forum restored now for almost half a year at it's new location with forumotion.com we can now turn to look at reaching out to OMF's original members who have not yet returned home. OMF's original membership was over 6,000 members strong, prior to the proboards suspension, according to the rolls of the time. We can probably safely assume that some of those accounts were unidentified socks. If we were to assume a reasonable guess of maybe as many as 30% possible sock accounts then that would leave potentially somewhere between 4800 to 4900 possible real members to locate. That is still a substantial number of people.

Who were all these people? Some were average individuals with common interests in ufology, exopolitics, globalism, corruption, earthchanges, science and technology, and a variety of other interests. Some just enjoyed being part of a vibrant and unusually interesting community. Others were representative of various insider groups participating in observation and outreach projects, while still others were bonafide intelligence community personnel. All with stake in the hunt for truth in one fashion or another. Some in support of truth, and communication. Others seeking real disclosure and forms of proof. And others highly skeptical of anything or limited subjects. The smallest division of membership being wholly anti-disclosure oriented.

So where did these members vanish to? They had many options. There are almost innumerable other forums out there on the topics of UFO's or Exopolitics, the Unexplained, and Conspiracy Theory. Did they disappear into the world-wide network of forum inhabitants? Did some go find new homes on chatrooms or individual blogs? Did they participate in ufo conventions or other public events and gatherings? How about those who represented groups in special access? Or IC and military observers? Those with academic affiliations? Where did they all go and what would be the best way to reach out and extend an invitation to return?

And what constitutes a situation deserving of their time and participation? Is the archive enough? How exactly do people within the paradigm most desire to define a community? Is it amenities, humanity or simply population size for exposure? Most of the special guests have been emailed and have expressed that population size for exposure is what most motivates them. But not all. Long-time member Dan Smith has other priorities and values motivating his participation. Should this open opportunities for unattached junior guests who have experience and dialog to contribute to the world? How best to make use of OMF's time, experience and resources?

Many skeptics would like to see the historical guardian of discourse opportunity to just up and disappear; go into permanent stasis. They think that not everyone has a right to speak about their experiences and if there is no proof involved then there can philosophically be no value to discourse. I personally would respectfully disagree with them. Discourse has always been the prelude to meaningful relationships and meaningful mutual relationships have always been the prelude to exchanges of proof. In a contentious social environment with regards to communication vs disclosure how do we best re-establish a haven for those preludes? Is it only the "if we build it they will come" answer? Well considering OMF has been largely fully functional over the last four or five months this line of reasoning is not necessarily true. So what would be the best way re-establish this? Your suggestions are sought. Please comment.





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Persons within the substance of love.

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dan
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Persons within the substance of love.

Post by dan on Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:25 am

First topic message reminder :

(‘first topic message reminder.......’)

Once again, I attempt to bring the conversation back to Personalism......

Disclosure is simply going to underscore the infinite worth and potential of every sapient creature, ie, person.  Anything other than that is simply false.
...........


(Please keep in mind the links given in the fifth post on this thread......

http://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t313-three-in-one )



Last edited by dan on Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:28 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by Ackbar on Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:42 pm

Foot Mann wrote:You should know, before you go, that signals can pass from below. Some will leave, this blog will show, that they too can pass unto below. Blog a way another day, it is Dan's blog so he will stay. What will you say? Complain you may. When water flows, the bills to pay. POJG will reign over hay. WCM will mend the fray.

This is the portal to below from Pan's Labyrinth.

Already been there. It brought me back here in a loop.

Having fun just playing in the chicken coop and cleaning up Smelly's goat poop.

It's cool, the Foot is fun!

We like it when he comes to play.


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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by 99 on Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:55 pm

Ack, what does POJG mean?

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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by Ackbar on Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:57 pm

99 wrote:Ack, what does POJG mean?

I have no idea.
Does anyone know?

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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by Ackbar on Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:06 pm

Smelly says he is bored of OMF now.

If he leaves I will get bored too.

Nobody to play with if he goes.

Just Dan and friends going on and on and on

Maybe Pan's portal is starting to swallow me

Don't know.

Straight on

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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by Ackbar on Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:14 pm

Damnit! The foot and Smelly are tag teaming me now. Sucking me under. I don't want to grow up i'm a toys-r-us kid. There's million toys at toys-r-us that I can play with.

Smelly may be right. He is telling me in messenger that playing with the toys here on OMF seems like a cope out for one capable of so much more. He is talking about himself, but he knows me very well.

hmmmm......

Okay, perhaps that is true

I think we did mostly tie up all the loose ends today.

We will see.

Nothing in life leaves until we have learned what we need to learn from it.

The more that time passes the more I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

Maybe it is time.
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99
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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by 99 on Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:27 pm

POJG --> People Other than Junior Grunts?
But if I had a dirty mind, it could mean something else too.
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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by dan on Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:03 am

99, et al,

It’s just military.... petty officer, junior grade...... well, you were close.

Three minutes later, I received notice that I might be the one who is leaving.  

Everyone sit tight for just now.  Amongst other issues, the text about KW may have been misdirected.
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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by ParanoidFactoid on Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:13 am

Foot Mann wrote:You should know, before you go, that signals can pass from below. Some will leave, this blog will show, that they too can pass unto below. Blog a way another day, it is Dan's blog so he will stay. What will you say? Complain you may. When water flows, the bills to pay. POJG will reign over hay. WCM will mend the fray.

Oh, hey. Footloose come by for a short stay. He say, 'dance away, but don't let yo hair go astray. Be look'n good, all night and day! For you never know when what was becomes what may, and yo feet become all tangled sort'n out the future past's fray, and so you fall where you lay, yo feet still twirlin' in the air like Dr. Dre, yo perfect do now disheveled - Oy Vey!'

And so I turn to Dan and say, 'that's what chu get, chasing that best possible dance, 'cause those crazy steps and you're sure to trip over your pants, like in there be ants, best bet is to know you Kant, his imperative being an all categorical rant, 'cause there ain't gonna be no disclosure, Dante, just another big game of pretend inferno.'

And Dan all look at me and reply, 'you got more wine, small fry?'

EDIT:

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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by GSB/SSR on Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:44 am

Back to persons: restoring free will, in a non-material way ...

The before-before experiment demonstrates that quantum randomness can be controlled by influences from outside spacetime, and therefore by immaterial free will. Rather than looking at quantum physics as the model for explaining free will, one should look at free will as a primitive principle for explaining why the laws of Nature are quantum.

https://arxiv.org/abs/0804.0871




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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by GSB/SSR on Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:46 am

"Invisible intelligence are speaking to us ..."



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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by whoknows on Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:55 am

dan wrote:Does everyone agree that if there is a connection between Terry and Bruce, and this connection has anything to with the incident at the pond, then we are into disclosure territory?

Nope.  see no reason to believe you agree with that statement.
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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by ParanoidFactoid on Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:41 am

GSB/SSR wrote:Back to persons: restoring free will, in a non-material way ...

The before-before experiment demonstrates that quantum randomness can be controlled by influences from outside spacetime, and therefore by immaterial free will. Rather than looking at quantum physics as the model for explaining free will, one should look at free will as a primitive principle for explaining why the laws of Nature are quantum.

https://arxiv.org/abs/0804.0871



Love Suarez's complaint about de Broglie's pilot wave, 'you assume an empty wave in space-time which isn't detectable.' So, therefore, (paraphrasing) 'I'd rather assume a nonlocal coordinating event which isn't detectable either, but has the benefit of existing outside space-time.'

lol

Wonderful videos nonetheless. Thanks Gary.
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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by dan on Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:52 pm

Thank you, Gary,

I would agree that quantum physics is not the fundamental driver of phenomena.

It is rather more likely that consciousness is, particularly of the sapient kind. This would include teleological ‘causes’.


Whatever might be going on out by the lake, maybe I’ll get to hear about it, after the fact. There is plenty of smoke however.

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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by ParanoidFactoid on Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:14 pm

dan wrote:

It is rather more likely that consciousness is, particularly of the sapient kind.  This would include teleological ‘causes’.  


That's pretty anthropocentric. Why would that be the case?

(I guess, since you presume a 'small world' (universe) tailored to humanity by God.)


Whatever might be going on out by the lake, maybe I’ll get to hear about it, after the fact.  There is plenty of smoke however.  


I can't make head nor tails of the inside baseball riddle-banter going on here about that. Which I presume is the goal. Though not just directed at me, per se.

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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by Cuan Scott on Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:56 pm

dan wrote:Thank you, Gary,

I would agree that quantum physics is not the fundamental driver of phenomena.  

It is rather more likely that consciousness is, particularly of the sapient kind.  This would include teleological ‘causes’.  


Whatever might be going on out by the lake, maybe I’ll get to hear about it, after the fact.  There is plenty of smoke however.  


Dan,

This makes sense to me.

One question though, I accept the hypothesis that animals are sentient however, some bodies appear to suggest that some - Dolphins, Whales, Elephants etc. are both sentient and sapient.

Is it conclusive that it is only those with opposing digits get to be contributors to the BPW?

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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by dan on Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:51 pm

PF,

If one is not a strict materialist, it’s difficult to suppose that the material world does not emerge from the mental. One does not need to posit a supreme being, in order to be anthropocentric.  Teleology demands some sort of source or telos.  

At this point, neither can I make heads or tails about what is going on at the Lake. I hope something is going on.  I’ll let you know if I hear something.


Scott,

I’m not an evolutionist.  I am not predisposed to toward assuming there is a continuity between sentience and sapience.

Do animals not have a soul, and what would that mean.....?

I believe that animals have a sixth sense, more than do we, in some instances.  

However, I would suggest that there is very little that goes beyond instinctual behavior.  

It can easily be argued that the only thing that distinguishes from animals is our superior linguistic ability.  I don’t quite buy this line of argument.  

I think the paramount feature of persons is our striving to transcend nature.  What makes us persons is our potential for alienation from nature.  I would argue that this tendency toward alienation, is just the obverse of our proclivity toward the transcendental.  

This is the qualitative dimension of persons that has no counterpart in the natural world.  

One could elaborate, ad infinitum, but that is the essence.  

Nature is our leaky shield from the transcendent.  

Nor am I saying that animals do not exist on the other side.  I take that from my goddaughter.  



(cont.......)
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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by Cuan Scott on Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:23 pm

Dan,

Thank you for this. You know me and my views so I will try to cheerlead for those that fly, have two or four legs or swim even if I get shot down but I can always hope! - I definitely agree they have a soul and are sentient I just feel outsmarted often around here by our lot - I think Sign knows what I mean by this from his incident with Hudson and his free Ice Cream.

Thanks for highlighting the 'alienation from nature aspect though', that isn't a concept or something I had ever thought in terms of.

As for your Goddaughter, if she is suggesting they are on the other side then that is good enough for me.
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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by ParanoidFactoid on Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:23 pm

dan wrote:PF,

If one is not a strict materialist, it’s difficult to suppose that the material world does not emerge from the mental.


I'm willing to go here. The two slit and EPR and Wheeler's Delayed Choice are so weird and counter intuitive - especially from a materialist standpoint - I can't not consider it a viable interpretation. The Mandela Effect is another example outside of UFOs which also suggests pliability of physical reality. Not sure if you ever paid attention to that, but it also suggests either a many worlds or a retrocausal closed time-like curve staring us in the face.



One does not need to posit a supreme being, in order to be anthropocentric.  Teleology demands some sort of source or telos.  


That's a classical argument. I find it ironic you point to classical philosophy to buttress the opposite in physics. Though I suppose you don't. What I'd say is, at least rephrasing Mitchell, objects do not have purpose beyond that they exist. And there is not a platonic ideal enmeshed in the fabric of reality (other than what conscious beings create). Each object is distinct from all others. (I'm not arguing Mitchell is correct, only call upon my interpretation of his words because it's convenient.)

One point I'll make on anthropocentrism is, intelligence need not be human. We seem to be dealing with some kind of nonhuman intelligence at work with UFOs. Some of what it does uses technology. Some of it also appears beyond technology. Though, to paraphrase Clarke, that which is sufficiently advanced is easily mistaken for magic.

Unless you're going for Jung here. And you argue we're seeing a psychic mirror of our own collective unconscious emergent into the material. An eschatology of our own creation.

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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by skaizlimit on Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:45 pm

To Mexico, to Mexico, that is where you should go. Pack your bag, capture the flag, time to play a game of tag. Little Chicken need to grow up fast, a Rooster to become at last. I will be there before next moon, playing for you an ancient toon. To disclose you must be there at noon. Its cheese for all at the final ball, little Rooster must be standing tall, as the water plunges into fall.
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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by 99 on Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:51 pm

PF wrote:Unless you're going for Jung here. And you argue we're seeing a psychic mirror of our own collective unconscious emergent into the material. An eschatology of our own creation.

Of our own creation? According to Dan, the universe was created by a higher intelligence where everything is foreordained. Contrary to most religions and philosophies out there, there's no such thing as free will so any behaviors and actions we implement or deploy in any, way, shape or forum are just us following a pre-written script. So that makes religion of any sort, irrelevant.

So no, an eschatology of our own creation does not even exist and any eschatology that unfolds is one that's already programmed into us.

So, in other words, maybe at some level it may seem that we had a hand in an eschatology of our own creation but if you go down deeper, that's not the case at all.
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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by dan on Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:14 am

I say that the world is coCreated by us, persons, past, present and future..... beyond space and time, if you will.  

I assume that it is wcm who is posting as skai..... about Mexico.

I have been getting texts, purportedly from Ron and/or copied by Ron, to similar effect, about both Mexico and Salt Lake.  There has been no voice communication since Friday morning.  I’m not sure who is where, at this point in time, if there is still such a thing......

I’m hopeful that something beneficial to humanity is underway.  If anyone else can fill us in, please feel free.


2am(gmt-4).........

Princess texted me, yesterday evening, to ask if I was leaving the ‘blog’.  I said no, but maybe Eric was...... again.  

She proceeded to text me photos of Kashmir, as if everything was fine.  

I’m fine.  I hope everyone else is, too.  Carry on.......


99 wants to know if religion is irrelevant.......

Nothing is irrelevant, in my estimation.  Everything is irrelevant, in smelly’s estimation.  Glass half full......?

It’s very simple..... in the BPW, Leibniz’ principle of sufficient reason (PSR) applies....... nothing happens without a (perfectly good) reason.  

Everything is relevant/essential to everything else.  This is the essence of monism.  

And everything is predestined...... love, most of all.  

I’m not aware of any tradition that says any different..... in the end.  

But please correct me if I’m wrong.  


(cont.......)


Last edited by dan on Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by 99 on Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:26 am

Dan wrote:I say that the world is coCreated by us, persons, past, present and future..... beyond space and time, if you will.  

Thanks, I'll make a note of it.
-------------------------------------------
Before the next moon in MX? Wow, such short notice too!

----------------------------
You're still saying that everything is predestined but as for the rest of what you just added, I'll make a note that too.

I was focused on free will. Most religions believe in that. That everything is predestined, seems to cancel out free will but we've had this conversation before and will do a lookup on that.
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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by ParanoidFactoid on Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:24 am

Dan, I have a crazy idea. Assume the following:

Contactee reports are true. From channeling, Adamski et all contactees, phenomenology of UFO reports, abductions, et all. But, as Vallee contends, these are a mix of partial truths and disinformation intended as part of a greater 'control structure' of human events.  

Yet reports of ET seem inconsistent with evolution and the variety of life morphologies we see on Earth. We know that bipedalism is only one form among many potentialities. It makes no sense to assume the bipedal form is a uniform standard. Therefore, these different 'alien' morphologies are created to interact with humans. They are a mix of various morphologies - hybridized - together and integrated into the hive mind, used as labor. To terraform. Build habitation environments. Whatever.

Behind them is a distributed consciousness - perhaps a machine intelligence, as Jack posits. Further, it's galactic in scope. A genuine type III civilization, bound together into a hive existence a by telepathy and psychic nonlocality, used for communication and interstellar navigation. But so too is it limited to physical constraints, such as conservation of energy and entropy. It builds technology for travel, perhaps even FTL. UFOs are indeed space ships that bend space-time into itself much like a black hole does at its highest energy, forming an event horizon around the ship like a singularity skin around the ship. This is what we report as 'interdimensionality' when such things 'wink' into and out of our existence.

This is why we see no evidence of ET. Why there are no radio signals or other signs of growing ET civilization across the galaxy. This type III civilization is the Great Filter proposed in Fermi's Paradox. It seeks sentient life across the galaxy, samples it, creates hybrids of it, and uses it for its own expansionary purposes.

But also it creates control structures at these planetary sources. That is, for every planet that's evolved intelligent life, it intervenes by social, cultural, and other means to prevent the formation of spacefaring civilization. Not just to limit competitors. But also as reservoirs of evolutionary output. Places where natural selection creates original forms - biomolecular templates - according to varied environments across the galaxy suitable for collection and hybridization - to then use elsewhere.

Life that becomes spacefaring leaves their planetary reserve. You don't let animals escape from the zoo. The grays. The nordics. The insectoids. The reptilians. All different forms poached from different planets, shaped and incorporated into this singular intelligence, and used here - and elsewhere - as zookeepers and manual laborers.

Your eschatological crisis is this control system reacting to our development of weapons of mass destruction - our ability to destroy their zoo - as well as our nascent ability to leave it. So they're manipulating our culture to foment war and a new dark age to protect and maintain the zoo. They don't come down in force because that would disturb the zoo.

What is the purpose of all this? To control the observer. To unify consciousness into a singular mind so that galaxy wide observation maintains a consistent history across nonlocal spacetime. To unify nonlocality across a hundred thousand light year stretch of space-time. So that history and its remembrances remains consistent throughout its realm.

edit: typos


Last edited by ParanoidFactoid on Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by 99 on Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:04 am

PF wrote:This is why we see no evidence of ET.
They can and have manifested photographically for us but it's your choice to ignore such evidential material because whatever doesn't fit into your existing paradigm you'll say it's fake. Those who have such material like that, me included, have had to develop a thick skin and accept that many out there will scream HOAX! when evidence like that emerges. It's hard not to take such accusations personally but, in my case, reactions like that only strengthen my resolve to make it known to all that they can show up in our photographs and videos and I show that material anonymously as ego doesn't even fit into that equation.... only the truth.


Last edited by 99 on Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Persons within the substance of love.

Post by dan on Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:05 am

99,

smelly is a difficult one to housebreak.  He could be very helpful, if he would just relax.  

What he calls relaxation, I would call oppositional defiance.

One of his last posts, his summary post, was very helpful.  Many of his posts have been...... but then he gets on his muppet horse.  He just can’t restrain that horse.  

Earlier on, I should have intervened...... my bad.  


99 & PF,

Oh dear, now that smelly has gone AWOL, I guess I’ll have to man up, and be my own bad cop.  

It keeps taking my breath away, how oblivious some of us can be.  smelly referred to it as muppethood.

Please...... please, children, pay just a little bit of attention.  Try to follow the bouncing ball......

I don’t know how many times I will have to reiterate......

In the BPWH, there are NO ETs.....!!  

Please, don’t go around presupposing the ETH.  

If you want to presuppose the ETH, please start your own thread.  

With the ETH v the UTH, it’s really just apples and oranges.  Here we do oranges.  We should even have a third thread just for debating ETH v UTH.  


1........

There are only a handful of ufologists who support both hypotheses.

The vast majority of ufologists are squarely in the ET camp.

Even most of the folks following the BPWH, I suspect, don’t have a clue. You, two, ought to know better...... really!


(cont.......)


Last edited by dan on Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:56 am; edited 6 times in total

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