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Who's Disclosure is Disclosure?

Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:16 am by Cyrellys

The narrative war is in full swing. When there's a 100 different competing narratives, how is it possible to discern a disclosure?

Is it akin to which truth is Truth?




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    Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

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    Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2 - Page 11 Empty Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

    Post by Cyrellys Mon May 04, 2015 12:29 am

    First topic message reminder :

    dan wrote:Cy,

    I'm not in favor of guns, but I understand that some folks need that extra sense of security.  

    Yesterday we were at the national Cathedral doing the flower market for Kashmir-Rose.  Today we are headed to a WCUAVC flight day at a school down here.  


    Was looking at the connection between India and Greece back in the day.  In fact there was a Greco-Indian empire, created by Alexander the Great.  The mutual influence



    (cont.)



    Well guns have their place, but that wasn't the point...the point was that Hillary equates gun possession with violent individuals or groups and I think I quite clearly illustrated the problem with that kind of thinking by saying I've never been responsible for hurting someone.

    I'm not a violent person and my record attests to that. Hillary however is responsible for the deaths of two exemplary military members and one Ambassador, all by design. She also responsible for the arrests and loss of career of one General and one Admiral who attempted to send in a rescue party. They would have been successful in the rescue and then the creation of ISIS and the gun running that contributed to it would have been exposed. Nothing like wiping the proof of criminal wrong doing off the map to protect your own arse Hildebeast? Like any of us would forget and forgive her? Hillary apparently doesn't own guns and yet she's been responsible for the ending of at least three lives and two careers. She's five ahead of this gun owner. And that's just what we happen to know about. There's rumors her and her prior hubby were involved in the drug trade of Arkansas and S. America...then there's China and Walmart. I could go on but what's the point. Truth is too old fashioned and justice is also out-dated.

    I'm a celt so truth and justice is not a cultural trait in the eyes of the modern umbrella society which refuses to acknowledge those traits as part of the nation's psyche, but rather as a personal neurosis that they'd probably insist a straightjacket and heavy medication be applied to if I were within reach in DC. Truth and justice equals neurosis? What kind of thinking is that?!! But that's the spew emerging from orgs like DHS since its inception. So when it comes to commentary, turn-about-is-fair-play. They and their flunkies make snide comments about us and we return the favor.

    >>>on India and Greece...look at the Sanskrit language and old greek. Then compare it to Old Irish. Fascinating? Now look at some of the ideas each culture valued...same again. All three have same root system. Ah but why would anyone care about the legacy of the elder gods? 'er ET and the seeding of civilizations? Virmana are inconveniences...ah! and there once was one in the vicinity of Fermoy Eire of all places! That is if you can take the Christian overlay off the history.

    >>> on the subject of the Glyphs:

    432 Mystery

    432 Mystery: the first lesson - the Abducted Preceptor







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    Post by GSB/SSR Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:54 pm

    In the above Penrose illustration, the non-material Platonic world clearly projects upon the emergent physical (physics) world, and the resulting physics projects upon the emergent world of the mind. What is notable is the mind then projects into the newly emergent awareness of the Platonic world, completing the Ouroboros (equation?) ...

    https://mitpress.mit.edu/sites/default/files/titles/alife/0262297140chap115.pdf



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    Post by dan Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:32 am

    Partially reversed order....... Brian's comment was interlinear......
    From: Dan
    Date: October 9, 2015 at 11:25:13 AM EDT
    To: Brian
    Cc: 9 others
    Subject: Moving beyond physicalism.....

    Brian,

    Thank you for this link.  

    Ok, so you are ready to move beyond the Sarfattian physicalist barrier, but what is the next move.......?

    I suggest that it has to do with space-time and persons, as being rather in opposition to each other.  

    Are we truly lost in space and time?  Who are we; from whence do we come, and whither do we go?  

    Appearances may be deceiving.  That does not prevent us from saving the appearances with science and then applying them to technology, which, in its turn, advances science.  This relative success of physics does not render it absolute, however.  That very success renders physics relative.  

    Relative to what.......?  

    I may be challenged, but I don't think I can be contradicted in saying that man is the measure of all things.  We struggle to jump out of our skins, and reach for cosmic objectivity.  To what avail?  There may be a sense in which it may be said that each of us is a microcosm.  

    Do we measure the galaxies?  May there exist unobservable universes?  Perhaps not.  

    Many scientists have grown very comfortable with the impersonalism of pantheism.  Then there came panentheism..... not quite so impersonal.  So what?  

    So the future, and perhaps the not so distant future.......


    (cont......)



    On Oct 9, 2015, at 4:53 AM, Brian Josephson wrote:

    On 8 Oct 2015, at 23:02, Dan Smith wrote:

    I see two immaterialists paying considerable attention to physicalism.

    Do you not feel prepared to move on?  

    You hereby stress the negative side of immaterialism...... its subversion of materialism.  Are you so afraid to look immaterialism squarely in the face?  

    For instance, have you not considered Francis' views on immaterialism.....?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/08/opinion/the-popes-subversive-message.html?

    When will you ever move on.......?  Immaterialism, per-se, may be just too radical for you.   You are not quite ready for the rug to be pulled out.  
    ------------

    I was ready a long time ago.  See http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~bdj10/articles/physicsandspirituality.pdf, published in 1987.


    Brian


    From: Dan
    Date: October 9, 2015 at 12:30:00 PM EDT
    To: Brian
    Cc: 11 others.......
    Subject: Whither do we go........?

    (cont.....)


    If persons are not incidental to space-time, then there is, at the least, a telos and a teleology.  

    If personhood has a source, it cannot be unrelated to the Telos.  Yes, there could be an Alpha and Omega, for persons, and even for the cosmos.  

    Then, perhaps, strong AI and Transhumanism, in their various forms, are overly ambitious.  

    And then what.........?  

    Well, then we have to wonder...... where is everybody else?  Perhaps we are on the verge of joining the Galactic Club.  Or, are we on the verge of joining the Cosmic Club?  I suggest that these options are not the same.  Not hardly.

    [Or] are we on the verge of taking ourselves out of the picture......?  


    (cont.......2)

    From: Dan
    Date: October 9, 2015 at 1:25:43 PM EDT
    To: Brian
    Cc: 11 others.....
    Subject: The options remain open...... in theory.

    (cont.......2)


    The options remain open...... in theory..... Transhumanism, Galactic Club, extinction event.  

    But, as Fermi asked, where are they?  Many scientists then suppose that we must face the last option..... extinction, alone.  

    Facing extinction, alone, is the only rational response to the cosmic silence.  

    I, rather, propose a rational alternative to extinction.  Instead of strong AI, I propose strong teleology.  Nay, I propose strong idealism/immaterialism.  

    Scientists look away from the abyss of extinction.  They may give it lip-service, but they do move on, as in business as usual.  They leave these ultimate concerns to the irrationality of religion.

    Well, I'm here to reexamine, perhaps to regain, rationality, in the context of, in the face of, the ultimate.  Should we attempt anything less?  I am proposing to break the silence.  

    We stand here, in this small company, prepared to ask the ultimate questions of physics.  Some of us are even prepared to look beyond the historical confines of physics.  

    Does God play dice with the universe?  Does God play dice with humanity?  How quickly are so many of us prepared to say..... Yes.  Instead, let just a few of us consider an alternative, no matter how radical it may have to be.  


    (cont........3)


    From: Dan
    Date: October 9, 2015 at 2:43:35 PM EDT
    To: Brian
    Cc: 11 others........
    Subject: Above my pay-grade.........

    (cont........3)  


    I have set the stage, and have even played most of my cards.  These are cards that many of you have played.  

    Really, just one card is left..... the Visitor card.  Again, though, none of you can plead abstention.  You cannot plead the abstemiousness of so many of your more straight-laced colleagues.  

    But, I play this card personally, not unlike what Jack is won't to do.  That does not excuse it, but it does not rule it out of court, either.  

    Yes, there is a Princess on this list.  She happens to be the wife of my bbq-buddy, Ron.  [...]  It is rumored that she has met with a Pope, and that her husband was once involved in an international phenomenology network, and now has a professional concern for our fate as a species.  

    Rumors and more rumors.........

    Ron, however, does not deny that we have been visited.  The implication is that this fact has been covered over, perhaps it is being saved for a rainy day.  

    How do I cut to the chase.......?

    Yes, many of you suppose the same, that we have been visited, and that the visitors are not just ET astronauts.  Our Visitors may not have just been sightseeing.  They may have addressed our ultimate concerns.  I certainly do not know that, for a fact.  But, I will play along, while the game is alive.  Can any of you afford to _not_ look this cosmic gift-horse in the mouth?  You may wish so, but you cannot know so.  

    Why don't I just wait for the president to hold his disclosure briefing?  Why don't I wait for Gabriel to blow the trumpet?  Well, I have waited, at least 40 years, and Ron does keep breathing down my neck.  

    The point is, that, if I have any role to play, it is to point out that the truth is within all of us.  No, this truth need not be forced down our throats, and it may not quite fit into any mathematical formulae.  And we are given a perfectly rational alternative, but there is actually just one path to rational hope.  That progress is eternal?  I don't consider that to be a rational alternative.  Do you?  

    Teleology must have a Telos.  Yes, but not on my watch, says almost everyone.  That must be someone else's problem.  It is above my pay-grade.  Perhaps even the president is not immune to this feeling.  


    (cont.......4)


    From: Dan
    Date: October 9, 2015 at 3:39:50 PM EDT
    To: Brian
    Cc: 11 others........
    Subject: Yes?  No?  Maybe......?

    (cont........4)


    Ok, I've actually said it all.........

    We have teleology, we have immaterialism.  We have sneaky Visitors.  We have politicians with cold shoes.  We have the fate of humanity, hanging in some sort of cosmic balance.  We have the phenomenologist and the princess.  We have God not playing dice with the universe.  We have a hopeful/hoped-for truth that is within all of us.

    Well, ok, maybe God _can_ afford to put all of her eggs in one basket.  Is this scientific blasphemy?  Does this not abide by the Copernican law of cosmic mediocrity?  

    Well, this may not be scientific blasphemy, not if we suppose that mind was fundamental to creation.  Not if we suppose that the Anthropic principle is a strong one, not a weak one.  Etc..... I think you may know the drill.  

    All we have to do is follow the bouncing ball........

    Maybe the universe is more like a great idea than a great machine.  Just maybe.......

    I'm here to bite that bullet, if you will permit.  If any of you have it within yourselves to rise to the challenge.  Are none of you prepared to set your atoms and photons aside, just for the nonce?  

    Yes, we are getting ourselves prepared to 'bite' the Telos.  To take it in stride.  We are here to prove to the politicians that this is the rational way forward.  That we are prepared to face down the Armageddon/Apocalypse.  Yes?  No?  Maybe......?


    cc: OMF  
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    Post by dan Sat Oct 10, 2015 7:36 am

    Self-identity is a miracle, as much or more than consciousness itself.  

    To have any meaning, Cs must be possessed of something.  What could possible possess or contain something as elusive as Cs?  Or, is a self simply Cs + memory?  It surely seems that it is something in addition.  

    We ascribe identity to non-human objects.  Or is it conferred?  A tree has an identity, even if not conscious.  But, maybe not.  

    The concept of self depends strongly on other selves.  We would have some sort of memory, but it could have a very different feel and meaning.  Felt by what, exactly?  Yes, there would still be something like it is to be me.   We might have a hard time recognizing something personal.  Perhaps we should distinguish between selves and persons.  The self could be something very crude and rude, barely recognizable to enculturated persons.  

    But how could I forget the soul?  Should the soul be more identified with the self or the person?  If there even is a soul.......

    If there is, we would first identify the soul with God, if there is a God.  Is God nearly as enculturated as us?   Very few can believe in a soul and not believe in a Source, or vice-versa.  

    Sorry, there can be no question, but that the soul must be identified with the self.  That may be rsponsible for the confusion.  But then there is personalism.  It would make little sense to call it soulism.  And xians think of the Father as a person.  Muslims may think of Allah more as a soul.  Jews would be in between.  

    Then there are individuals and individualism.  Personalism favors inidividualism, so it seems.  Look at me father, look at me.  

    In what configuration are the self, soul, person and individual?  There is even I and me, subject and object, not necessarily the same entity.  


    11am-------------

    There is that of God in all of us.  Panentheism.  In all of ourselves.  

    Is God, then, rude and crude?  It might be.  God is not quite as enculturated as we are, usually.  God may be a pre-person.  The son was enculturated.  

    God is more an expression of the pure Monad, pure Self.  There is the hermit mystic who can identify with the cosmic Self/Monad.  

    The Monad is enculturated through the son.  Through us.  It is as much a figment of us, as we are of it.  We all hang together, outside of time and space.  


    Then we come back to the atom and DNA.  I just think that both of them are overrated.  Sure, if they didn't exist, we'd have to invent them, and maybe we did, anyway.  

    I'm not denying that atoms and DNA exist, on some level.  I do not deny that mathematical structures exist.  Unicorns exist, too, in some non-trivial sense.  Metabolic cycles and reproduction exist, in a more immediate, phenomenal sense.  Do we measure the atoms, or they, us?  

    We could not make much sense of evaporation and condensation w/o atoms.  Nor of reproduction.  It used to be that there were animalcules, now there are molecules.  Now there is coding.  

    The idea of the homunculus is not unlike that of the animalcule, like the soul.  Now there is also coding, as in programming.  We have atomism + informationalism.  The soul woud be the last to go, or is that where we start back?  

    Sexual reproduction does need assortment, and so genetics of some sort. Assortment makes no sense w/o a molecular coding scheme. Assortal diversity is basic to the human phenomenon. Evaporation seems just an incidental byproduct, but it is certainly crucial for landed life. We have a design process, and a fill-in process. They seem antithetical. Not sure how they might complement one another. Evolution completely avoids such questions, of course. Where in the alleged design process does reproduction fit in?




    (cont.)

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    Post by dan Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:39 am

    At present I'm supposing there are two reproduction processes..... biological and psychological.  

    Further, I'm supposing, along with mind over matter, that psychological reproduction comes first.  The paradigmatic case of psychological reproduction is the multiple personality disorder (MPD), particularly in the event of psychological trauma.  A related condition is the disassociation associated with isolation, as with John Lilly.  

    There is a background potentiality for self, but not just one self.  There would be a primordial diad within the Monad.  The diad could be further split, with a self-reinforcing/bootstrapping propensity to self-multiply with the bounds of the Monad.  

    Why would such a psychological multiplication process not suffice for Creation?  Why biology?  Why, indeed!  This is a rather basic question.  I'm not sure that is has been asked before, not quite in such stark terms.  

    I have addressed this question indirectly.  I have spoken of Creation as arising from a need for a recreation, as with a primordial game of pokatok, for instance.  I have spoken of the need for a level playing-field, as with space-time.  

    One could imagine a cosmic game of chess.  But even with chess, there is an implied, rudimentary form of 'physics'.  

    With this rudimentary 'physics', would come conservation laws, notably energy.  One could have some form of plug-'n-play.  It would make the game more robust, if the acquiring of the energy sources became part of the game.  Then we would have some form of hunting/gathering.  

    But why not just play cosmic charades......?  That game would require a linear form of time, at the least.  Actions need be synchronized.  There need also be a systemic curtailment of omniscience.  

    Biology certainly fits the bill, perhaps, even, in some optimal fashion.


    Then there is the cosmic problem of energy.  For us, that is fairly straight-forward.  We are blessed with 'free-energy' in the form of sunlight.  It is, to a large extent, equally available to all, until we have economic systems of land rent.  

    What would we do without the sun and photosynthesis?  

    One suspects that Creation is some sort of dynamo.  Certainly, the CTC looks like one.  

    What of omnipotence?  Omnipotence is impotent without a Creation of some sort.  

    Let there be sunlight........

    Creation is not a bad game, if game it be.  Anyone for scrabble?  

    But is there a top-down approach to sunlight?  We think of it as entirely bottom-up.  If it didn't already exist, we might have to invent it.  But how?  

    I have spoken of heliotropism.  This would be an improvement over a
    plug in the wall.  The Sun is, in effect, a big plug in the sky.  But where's the dynamo?  Fiat-lux?  Here's where a bit of omnipotence might come in handy.  Hey, anyone for a Big-Bang, speaking of free lunches?   Why not?  

    Is that not a top-down scenario?  Anthropic principle and all.  

    Well, that's not bad for an Alpha point, but what about the Omega point?  

    That is a rather major problem.  We would be the epitome of someone left twisting in the wind.  

    Well, we could just have God single us out.  What about any others?  What about the concept of the BPW?  

    What about anthropocentrism?  What about geocentrism?  

    What about theocentrism and christocentrism?  Do they count for nothing?  


    2:45-------------

    Maybe we need to reexamine the concept of the free-lunch.......

    We have energy-in, in the form of sunlight.  We have energy-out, in the form of a 'dynamo'.  

    Where does the mental 'energy' come from, if not from the Creation?  

    I speak of the primordial self as some form of bootstrapping potentiality.  I am, perhaps, pulling energy out of a primodial chaos.  In effect, God is maxwell's ultimate Daemon.  We creatures are the mini-daemons.  In pork rendering factories, everything gets used, except the pig's squeal.  Well, God does even better.  

    But what is 'energy', in the context of immaterialism?  Is anything conserved?  Pain/pleasure?  It may be that polarity that provides the 'spark-gap' of the dynamo.  

    Maybe the Sun is just the 'spark-gap' in the sky, as seen through the other end of the 'meta-scope'.  It is a bootstrap, after all.  

    I think we may have broken some new ground.  I've not been able to connect these dots, before, if connection there be.  

    We put the Sun in the sky, with our various forms of heliotropism..... even just by lying on the beach.  Yes, I am, not being totally tongue-in-cheek, by suggesting that sunbathers came before the Sun.  Perhaps, contemporaneously.  I might even be borrowing a page from Darwin.  How did the leopard get its spots?  How did the Sun climb up in the sky.  Or was that Kipling?!!  You claim there is a difference!  Not me.  

    What powers our dreams?  What powers God's dream?  People report experiences, even when they're flat-lining.  Does God flat-line?  Perhaps he would, without us, creatures.  Hey, somebody has to keep the lights burning.  


    Yes, we have to boostrap the Sun, the atoms, the stars, the fossils......

    But the bootstrap is invisible. This may be where felt-meaning and synaesthesia come into their own.

    The bootstrap get's lost in the rainbow...... the coat of many colors.

    I kinda think so. We can't see the forrest, for all the darn trees!

    God dreams us. We dream the cosmos, and the cosmos dreams God. The Penrose triangle, in effect.



    (cont.)

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    Post by dan Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:09 pm

    [I'm using the iPad w/o the keyboard, and am too lazy to scroll to the bottom.]

    What was the Sun before it climbed up in the sky?  Presumably not a wall-plug.  It could have been a sunlamp.  That's too easy.  Something more robust.  Oh, yes, it could have been a hydrothermal vent.  It was, so I'm cheating. What game is this?  Not sure, actually.

    The point is to come to the idea of the Sun continuously/gradually.  That would...... what?  

    I'm trying to come at photosynthesis, obviously.  Why not a fiat?  I'm trying to make God look stupid?  Well, I'm bringing God down to our size.  This is kind of what teleology is about. Using weak measurements.  

    I'm doing a compromise.... between humans and God.  This is how we invent God.  Sort of.  Also I'm trying to show that the BPWH can come about incrementally.  By weak measurements/imagination.  This is a sum over human imaginations, as it were.

    There is a logical transition from mana to sunlight.  Mana is like the hydrothermal vents.  I'm still not sure what game this is.  It is Kiplingesque.  A Just-So story.  I think it could be something more.

    The mana story in the bible is trying to tell us something. It may be a little out of sequence.  Where there's a will, there's a way.  Using PK to design the BPWH.  

    Which came first, mana or metabolism?  Well, what came before metabolism?  


    11:30--------

    Curiosity is a bit like hunger. This could be where hunger came from.

    (Now I'm just taking notes to myself.)

    Why did hunger have to come from somewhere? Mind came first in this 'game'.


    (cont.)
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    Post by dan Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:53 am

    Yes, the Sarfatti list is a bit of an eye opener......

    It is a motley crew, from noble to ignoble, and you can't always tell which is which.  

    It could be, and maybe is, a maker-space for comology.  Some people have tools, others have concepts.  I wonder if it might be unique.  There are as many email lists as there are people.  This list is not wanting for ambition.  Ufos seldom get mentioned, but they're never too far out of most people's minds.  

    We have a skeptical stance wrt current academic science and philosophy.  We know that science has done great things, in the past, but most of us are aware that science seems to have lost its way, in the last few decades.  


    11:15----------

    Had a long chat with the princess about saving rhinos and the world.  

    Rhinos are our canary in the coal mine.  Other megafauna has better PR, maybe even hippos do and they're not even endangered.  Leopards and tigers are cute, sometimes even cuddly.  Every body would love to have one in their backyard.  Many do.  The snow leopard is in a remote contested region, barely accessible.  

    Rhinos are the least favored, endangered, accessible, landed megafauna.  That's our canary.......  We've had hundreds of millions and state of the art technology to throw at it.  Poaching goes up, survival goes down, still, as of today.  

    No, rhinos are not our #1 priority.  The world is the #1 priority.  Even the rhinos could outlive us.  They could outlast our civilization.  

    We are seeing the outlines of anarchy in DC.  If the next election is seriously contested, there may be no exit strategy.  If we experience another credit crisis, there may be no exit strategy.  

    Do the various terror groups not have access to enough nuclear waste to lay waste the centers of several cities?  There are many religious groups that have apocalyptic scenarios.  Many other groups are throwing matches at the gasoline.  

    I have asked Ron if anyone has an exit strategy for September or whenever, besides me.  No.  

    Aliyah said that Ron succeeded in protecting the Sakhalin tigers from poaching, using technology.  There was TACP and the Cathouse - Technology Assisted Counter-Poaching.  I don't know how successful it was.  Even that background has not succeeded with the rhinos.  

    Can we explicitly link KWF with the BPWH?  I don't even know that.

    What are we prepared to do to save the world?  Aliyah and pretty well know our options.  I can blog here, and jump over the WH fence, for instance.  Aliyah has access to nearly unlimited interns, for instance.  

    We don't know Ron's options.  If there were classified info involved that was being ignored in high places, is he prepared to stick his neck out?  He can't really be arrested.  More likely he would be disappeared.  How much risk?  Should we not risk it to save the world, even on a long shot?  

    Is Aliyah prepared to say that the KWF has failed at saving the rhinos?  No fault of the KWF, but the political situation on the ground is unmanageable.  SA, like many other countries, including the US, is on the verge of anarchy and civil war.  Saving the rhinos is not and should not be a top priority, except as a symbol/symptom of the larger problem.  


    1:25-------------

    Deborah N sends me the following link..........

    http://www.spiritualresearchfoundation.org/spiritual-blog/world-war-3-is-coming-are-you-prepared/

    It appears to be hindu/India based, aimed mainly at the West.  I would like to know if it represents a trend in Hindu apocalyptic thinking.  It might deserve a vector of its own.  


    4:15-------------

    I had along talk with Deborah about the East/West spritiual similarities and dissimilarities.  In the end the difference came down to personalism/impersonalism.  

    In particular is Plato's good personal or not?  Plato supposed it was not.  I'm now looking for good discussion of the Good, particularly about its alleged impersonal aspect.


    10:30-----------

    The Good, in Plato, is considered impersonal.  Simone Weil and other mystics and contemplatives look to the purification of the self that comes from contemplating mathematics and nature.  For Plotinus, the One is transpersonal.

    These mystics equate the self with the ego.  The higher self is egoless and impersonal.  The ego contaminates everything that is personal. Escape is the desire.  

    Simone Weil saw nothing paradoxical in her mysticism and her conversion to Christianity.  

    Transhumanism may be seen as form of transpersonalism.  Jungians speak of the transpersonal.  I call it the interpersonal.  

    Neutral monism may be seen as a form of impersonalism/transpersonalism.  Idealism, in the west, is taken to be personal.  But, in the east, it is considered impersonal.  

    Can there be thoughts without a thinker?  Can there be impersonal mind?  

    It is the notion of contamination that is crucial.

    Wait, Hegel was a proponent of objective idealsm, as opposed to Berkley's subjective variety.  Mathematics would be the locus of objective ideas.  What was Hegel's ultimate?  The Absolute.

    And then we have the transcendantal idealism of Kant.

    But the ultimate opposition is usually taken to be mind and matter. Can mind be impersonal? The personal is considered illusory, in the east. It is irretrievably contaminated by the ego. This is Maya and karma. Anatmam is the goal.

    (cont.)
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    Post by dan Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:24 am

    Ok, I think I get it........

    The Plotinian One is what I refer to as potentiality.  And is what is referred to as brahman, in the east.  

    But I had not contemplated any return to the primordial potentiality.  Maybe that was an error.  Perhaps I should imbue potentiality with value.  With eternality, logical succession need not imply the possibility of retracing the logic, in some sort of quasi-temporal fashion, by the individual.  It would be the ultimate recycling of the self.  

    But remember that there is only one soul/self that does recirculate itself for the 10^10 times, to give the appearance of mutiple selves in one singular BPW/CTC/SW circuit.  

    Outside of that temporal process, there still exists the cosmic self and potentiality.  Perhaps my concern with recognizing the non-temporality of the primordial potentiality was that it would have the proclivity to spawn other worlds.  If this world arises in a depedent co-origination, why not others?  Even the easterners do not allow co-existing worlds.  Rather, they have only a 'succession' of this one world.  There is an implicit limitting/filtering process.  

    Once the cosmic self arises out of the potentiality, can it cease to exist, even in a non-temoral, logical sense?  Has it not somehow 'saturated', or simply realized, the potentiality?  Can it be unrealized?  Does potentiality retain this ultimate power..... this ultimate potency?    Somehow, the cosmic self cannot be duplicated.  That's what Creation is about.  Creation does saturate the primordial potential.  

    That does not prevent an individual manifestation of the soul from experiencing the cosmic potency.  God cannot?  There is this limit on God's potency?  Perhaps.  Cetainly, the theists do not envision it!  Well, God can experience the primordial potency vicariously, through us.  But how can this raw potency be experienced w/o some notion of a subject to do the experiencing?  

    But can there also exist pure nothingness?  What is nirvana?  That is to experience escape from rebirth and karma.  Can God escape his karma of Creation?  Can God escape his attribution of Creator?  Can God never escape the cacophony of his creatures prayers?  Poor thing!  The only way to escape that cacophony was to incarnate and get crucified.  'Why hast thou forsaken me?'  Well, it was the only way to stop the infernal/eternal buzzing.  That does border on blasphemy.  

    Potency is impotent when it comes to shaking-off the logical necessity of the BPW.  What about the second best world?  There just is not that same primal necessity.  I think we have enough suffering in the BPW to cover everything else.  Yes, there may be side-shows, but they remain just that.  

    We creatures seem to experience anihilation many times in our imagination.  That should be more than adequate for God's vicariousness.  The survival instinct seems built around that palpable fear.  Not many of us will even shake a stick at it.  


    noon------------

    And then we have science, bless its heart, lest I forget to.  

    Scientists make good Buddhists.  God love 'em.  You must have to love nihilism.  But I was once a scientist, and I don't recall that proclivity.  No, it was the sense of cosmic potency that seemed attractive.  But, eventually, that sense of potency became lost in the plethora of formulas and theories.  It still keeps Jack going.  But I think that the fear of the abyss is a major motivator.  Xians are able to embrace the abyss.  

    I hope we have adequately covered the impersonal.  There could be no persons, were there not an impersonal background, as contrast.  The Buddhists, I think, try to bring that background to the fore, mostly beyond the point of reason.  God love their persistance.  The theists do not give it suffient credence.  I hope the the BPWH version of panentheism will fill their need.  I will restle with the abyss, anytime.  

    Jack, instead, seeks to tame the abyss with his formulas..... even to tame the Potency.  I don't think he recognizes a difference.  

    Has God tamed the Potency?  To the extent that it needs taming, he has co-Created the BPW.  The abyss becomes that shadow.  I wouldn't kick sand in the face of the Shadow, well, not without Somebody to hold my hand.  


    1:20----------

    The notion of eternal return, in the east, is an odd one......

    It posits one big paradox to a avoid a lot of little ones.  Several items stand out......

    1.)   There is no reincarnation of the spirits.  

    2.)  It is a physical concept.  All the physical bodies reappear and undergo the same histories.  

    3.)  The spirits, souls and gods fill the same bodies or forms.  

    4.)  Therefore, one may not suppose there is anything random in existence.  Neitzsche spoke of this non-randomness in terms of his oft-repeated amor-fati.  He found the concept to be, at once, both mesmerizing and horrifying.  There must be some form of cosmic teleology.  They got that part right.  

    But then, in the end, even Buddha, does not escape the wheel of eternal recurrence, much against the usual presupposition.  

    But if you did not have this recurrence, a host of other questions would arise that would lead you inevitably to the BPWH.  I am at pains to point out the uniqueness of the BPWH, in this regard.  


    4:30----------

    I believe I have fairly accommodated the impersonal, w/o succumbing to its blandishments.  Impersonalism makes sense up to a point, but only to a point.  It provides relief from extreme personalism, and in that capacity it can serve well.  It leaves ample room for a properly house-broken science.  

    What it leaves room for mainly is the rationalism of the BPWH.  God, too, is house-broken!  


    Where are we now with the RA&D show......?  

    I think I'm running out of options wrt the Sarfatti list, in answer to a question posed by Ron this morning.  I can't honestly say that his explicit support on the list would fundamentally alter the equation.  The various interests will continue to talk past each other, ad-infintum.  Posing as the gorilla in the wings will only invite a stoney silence.  They have no measuring stick with which to make sense of the radical departures I propose, regardless of any urgency.  The urgency will only produce a general paralysis.  

    There is no logical bridge between Deepak and Jack.  Brian is all too aware of his marginal satus vis-a-vis the mainstream.  

    Have I left any stone unturned?  WWGD......?  I sympathize with his predicament.  Have Gabriel blow the horn?  


    6pm--------

    Mind you, I'm not throwing the towel, certainly not for God.  I'm just marveling at the predicament that she seems to have got herself into.  What trick has has she got up her sleeve..... something short of the horn trick, presumably?  

    I may not be the only one wondering/speculating, at this particular juncture.  

    Send in the clowns....?  Me thinks we may already have a headstart on that one.  Send in the Princess?  That, too.  Send in the Trickster?  Check that.  

    We just have assets, galore.  Who's more impatient at this point?  Us or God?  

    Is the trickster gonna have to be disappered?  That would be downright clumsy.


    Speaking of impersonal, I left out the infinite.  Contrary to some expectations, even the pantheists place a strict limit on the quantity of souls.  I'm not sure what the rationale might be, but it certainly is welcome.  They just don't limit the number of Kalpas.  It is a step back toward sanity, rationality.  

    But, anyway, even with the unlimitted number of kalpas, with each of them being identical, who's to tell there's more than one?  Didn't they read their Liebniz?  Shame......

    Why identical and finite?  Amor Fati......

    Liebniz gave amor-fati its ultimate rationale. No free-will? Well, there certainly is microcosmic free will. Our general ignorance underscores that point.


    What would be my ultimate action item for the trickster......?

    Many action items have actually been suggested by the trickster, himself. Very few were fulfilled. In retrospect, I doubt they would have made much difference, even if taken altogether.

    But let's just say that the pres. were to place a thumb on this scale. Could there be any positive effect? Could any human cut through the solid barrier of scepticism? Visitor? Maybe. Just maybe. Have we been sufficiently acclimatized to that eventuality? Maybe. Just maybe.



    (cont.)

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    Post by dan Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:48 am

    From: Foot Mann
    Date: October 12, 2015 at 11:54:14 PM EDT
    To: undisclosed-recipients:;
    Subject: Cruising with the Princess -- One Will not Return

    Dear Brothers, Sisters, and Friends of the Princess,

    Plans are underway again for a sea-based adventure. This time the Royals will be headed south into Sea Turtle Oceans. It will be a difficult and dangerous adventure, and one will not return. Look to the next issue of the Chronicles for more information, but for those who plan ahead, start getting in ship shape!

    More to Come

    The Footman

    I am a little slow on the uptake.........

    Is this another joke, or might it have something to do with next September?  

    There will be a call into Ron, shortly.

    We are about to leave for Philadelphia to see an exhibit.


    7:40------------

    There has been very little response, so I'm guessing the former.


    (cont.)
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    Post by dan Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:48 am

    From: Dan
    Date: October 15, 2015 at 9:37:37 AM EDT
    To: Anthony M Amadori
    Cc: ~50 others........
    Subject: What we all believe in common..... the big T!

    Tony,

    Everyone here seems open to the possibility that consciousness is no accident.  Wow, that's big!

    How big?  It's the biggest thing going.  It differentiates almost all of us from the amorphous mob of modernists, including even the many dualists who suppose the consciousness (Cs) was somehow added to nature, after the fact, perhaps by God.  

    What we all believe in common, then, is in the big T, teleology.  

    There could be nothing bigger.  The implications are mind blowing.  How?  

    We will not experience an ELE.  Sorry, it's just not in our stars.  No, the big T would not have brought this far out of the primordial ooze, just to have some darn fool push the wrong button.  It just doesn't stand to reason.  

    If no ELE, then what?  Is Teleology going to leave us twisting in the cosmic breezes.....?

    No.  Sorry, teleology just doesn't work that way.  It's like a horse and carriage..... You can't have teleology without a Telos.  

    Where is our Telos?  Well, you only have two choices.........

    1.)  Nearby.....  ~1,000 years

    2.)  Far away..... >~ 1,000,000,000 years


    (cont.........)
    cc:OMF


    On Oct 14, 2015, at 3:08 PM, Anthony M Amadori wrote:

    Maybe the "common ground" has already been found here, and that is, that there will be no universal agreement on this subject.  

    Tony Amadori

    On October 11, 2015, at 5:10 AM, Brian J wrote:

    Energy is being spent here on fighting that would be better spent on cooperating and finding common ground.


    Brian


    From: Dan
    Date: October 15, 2015 at 10:54:50 AM EDT
    To: Anthony
    Cc: 45 others........
    Subject: Re: What we all believe in common..... the big T!

    (cont........)

    [ELE = extinction level event]

    But, if you think about that choice, even for a moment, you will see that it is no real choice.  

    1,000,000,000 years is and _inhuman_ timescale.  No......?  

    Inhuman......?  So, what?  The universe is inhuman.  Too, bad!  

    Well, yes, the universe is inhuman, if it has no Telos.  But we've all agreed that the universe has teleology, and it has been pointed out the teleology >> Telos.  

    OK, then, what about super-humans, either biological or artificial?  This would be in accord with Jack Sarfatti's and Frank Tipler's Omega, i.e a future holographic horizon or a Big Crunch, respectively.

    Are those possibilities beyond the bounds of reason?  

    Yes and no.....  1,000,000,000 years is within the bounds of scientific reason.  Isn't scientific reasoning human?  No, not really.  Not in the sense that it makes human sense.  What is human sense?  Sense is human, if it does not boggle the human mind.  Science has become oh-so adept at boggling our minds.  Science takes great pride in that very fact.  Science holds its 'billions' and 'infinities' over and against any notion of God, for instance.  

    There is nothing wrong with that, after all, we, humans, number some 10^10, and we are almost capable of dealing with such numbers.  

    But, you see, Jack's and Frank's Telos is inhuman in its scale.  How so......?

    #1 fact is that this cosmic scale renders us, as individuals and even as a species, entirely insignificant/redundant on the supposed larger scheme.  

    Too darn bad!  Suck it up!  


    (cont..........2)


    From: Dan
    Date: October 15, 2015 at 12:04:44 PM EDT
    To: Ruth K, Robert A
    Cc: 45 others......
    Subject: Another think coming..... MoAPS!

    Ruth,

    <<< Dan: Telos need not be confined to space and time.
    Think outside the box.
    <<<

    Yes, I certainly agree, but........

    We, humans, might have our own, planetary, Telos. But, that still leaves us as being insignificant/redundant/expendable. These ends, or lack thereof, would tell us that cosmos may have a telos, but, for us humans, it is just one of many options.

    I well understand, Ruth, that, for you, free-will is of paramount importance. I'm just saying that, the terrorist, with his finger on the button, may experience limits to that free-will. I believe that is what may have happened aboard K-129.


    Robert,

    Radical change........?

    That is exactly what I am suggesting..........

    I'm merely adding that taking consciousness seriously would necessarily entail a MoAPS, the mother of all paradigm shifts. It would be much, MUCH, bigger than merely fiddling with a few equations, as Jack would have it. It would entail a bright new day....... Jack just has no conception of a MoAPS. Few do. They think it will just be more baby-steps. Business as usual.

    I'm just, humbly, suggesting that all you baby-steppers, out there, are about to have another _think_ coming!



    On Oct 15, 2015, at 11:06 AM, Robert Addinall wrote:

    I don't particularly agree with your reasoning here Dan. Why does humanity have to remain in its current state in which such timescales seem difficult to comprehend? I agree that humanity will not go extinct, but that doesn't mean that it won't change radically.

    Of course there are the transhumanist nightmares, epitomized by Star Trek's Borg. I tend to agree with you that transhumanism is a blind alley. We won't cross billions of years by turning ourselves into emotionless automatons that are more machine than human. However, that's not the only way to change.

    All the reports of anomalous things like remote viewing, precognition, psychokinesis... ‎these may be the tip of the iceberg and humanity may well be getting set up for another evolutionary leap into something that can handle much larger scales of space and time.
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    Post by dan Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:28 pm

    From: Dan
    Date: October 15, 2015 at 12:42:15 PM EDT
    To: Deepak
    Cc: 45 others......
    Subject: Re: What we all believe in common..... the big T!

    Deepak,

    Yes, this just what most modern-minded folk believe...... evolution has suffered many natural shocks, only to come back stronger.

    This is to say that we, even as a species, are expendable, on the scale of any cosmic teleology.

    But.......

    I am suggesting that sapience is an essential component of teleology, in a way that mere sentience is not.  

    I am suggesting that there is a crucial, even cosmic, distinction between sentience and sapience wrt to anything teleological.  Furthermore I am prepared to defend that crucial distinction, as soon as I return from my stroke therapy.  



    On Oct 15, 2015, at 11:26 AM, Deepak Chopra wrote:

    The extinction of Dinosaurs led to Homo Sapiens . Our extinction could lead to a superior species ?



    From: Robert Addinall
    Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 11:23 AM
    To: Deepak Chopra; Dan Smith; Anthony M Amadori
    Cc: .......
    Subject: Re: What we all believe in common..... the big T!

    My gut instinct is that humanity was always intended to evolve into something that would probably leave the earth, maybe retaining a partial connection to it, and play a much greater role in the cosmos.

    There were probably easier pathways to get there, with less pain, misery, anger, destruction, witnessing premature extinction of other Earth species, and so on. Looking at our history I think we've probably ended up choosing one of the more difficult routes. Nonetheless, I doubt that really changes the final outcome.

    From: Deepak Chopra
    Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 11:17 AM
    To: Robert Addinall; Dan Smith; Anthony M Amadori
    Cc: .......
    Subject: Re: What we all believe in common..... the big T!

    Perhaps the human species is an experiment in Cosmic Mind --an experiment that seemed interesting at first but now considered one that did not work ?


    From: Dan
    Date: October 15, 2015 at 2:39:54 PM EDT
    To: Deepak
    Cc: 47 others.......
    Subject: Teleology w/o sapience.....?

    (cont.........)


    If there is any teleology, it is common to all life forms.  True...... but, and here is the big BUT......

    Does teleology make any sense w/o a Telos........?  

    1.)  Each animal species could, perhaps, have its own teleology.  

    2.)  Evolution, however implies that there is a cosmic teleology.  

    3.)  It makes little sense to suppose that teleology could include sentience, but not sapience.  

    Ok, so then, teleology must also apply to sapience as well as to mere sentience.  

    Thus, sapience becomes an essential component of teleology.  IOW, all of rational thought would then become an essential component of teleology.

    Does this imply a telos.......?


    (cont........2)


    From: Dan
    Date: October 15, 2015 at 3:20:59 PM EDT
    To: Deepak
    Cc: ........
    Subject: Teleology without a purpose.......?

    (cont........2)


    We're almost there........

    Teleology, then, virtually by its definition, includes sapience.

    For any rational being, teleology must include a rational purpose for its existence.

    Yes, we are talking about the purpose of existence.

    Most humans would agree that the purpose of their existence is either to serve humanity, or to serve some superhuman deity. Everyone here agrees with this, I believe.

    Therefore, I think I have just proven a bombshell........

    The belief that individual life has meaning may be integral to evolution and cosmology.

    But isn't this just acknowledging an individual survival instinct? No.

    There seems to be no rational thought involved in the so-cal survival instinct. On the contrary, only sapience does occasionally seem to lead to suicide.

    Is it just the acknowledgement of species survival instinct? No.

    Survival is one thing, purpose is quite another, especially if we suppose that this purpose is built into the very fabric of the cosmos.


    (cont...........3)

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    Post by dan Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:41 pm

    From: Dan
    Date: October 15, 2015 at 4:02:28 PM EDT
    To: Deepak
    Cc: ...
    Subject: Re: Teleology without a purpose.......?

    No, Deepak. I believe that it has been demonstrated, otherwise.........

    If teleology is the lynchpin of existence, then there can be no existence that is superfluous to the Telos.

    You, personally, may wish that you could be superfluous...... that you could just drift away. However, you are part of the cosmos, just like the rest of us, presumably. Therefore, we share the cosmic Telos with you.

    We all share a personal/rational purpose in our individual and collective lives.

    We do feel personally obligated to serve the cosmic purpose. Show me someone who does not, and I will show you a sociopath.

    Even the ISIS terrorists, it's important to note, feel that they are fulfilling the Cosmic plan of salvation. Unfortunately they are not using their rational minds sufficiently. They have not yet heard of the MoAPS.

    Maybe we can alleviate that deficiency. Would you care to help?


    On Oct 15, 2015, at 3:27 PM, Deepak wrote:

    The "individual " is an impermanent pattern of behavior of the universal .
    There is only the universal

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    Post by dan Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:26 pm

    From: Dan
    Date: October 15, 2015 at 6:32:11 PM EDT
    To: Paul, Robert and Deepak
    Cc: 44 others......
    Subject: Re: Another think coming..... MoAPS!

    Paul,

    Thank you for reminding me of this message from Robert.  


    Robert,

    Yes, by itself, swallowing the SWH seems like swallowing an elephant, even if only a small one ;-)

    And this is exactly why the entire scientific Establishment has its back against the wall, when it comes to teleology.  

    That simple political fact explains why the Scientific elite are so uptight about any sort of emergent, back action and teleological phenomena.  They know, full-well, that, if they swallow that gnat, in short order they will have swallow everything else.  


    Deepak,

    Yes, it is all an illusion, I agree.  But there is one crucial point that you have failed to grasp.  It may be the best possible illusion.  

    In such a case, this ol' world might have more staying power, cosmically, than you are willing to suppose.  

    You think you could do better?  Well, just wait until next September, when the global 'vectors' are scheduled to come into alignment.......



    On Oct 15, 2015, at 6:03 PM, Paul Zielinski wrote:

    Addinall stumbles into the truth.
    Yes, the MoAPS is definitely underway.

    On 10/15/2015 9:49 AM, Robert Addinall wrote:

    I think that for both Jack and myself one issue is your small world hypothesis [SWH]. It doesn't necessarily follow. However, in principle a "mother of all paradigm shifts" may happen or may even already be underway.


    From: Dan
    Date: October 15, 2015 at 8:19:59 PM EDT
    To: Paul Z
    Cc: 47 others.......
    Subject: Re: Teleology w/o sapience.....?

    Paul,

    I combine two of your emails, in this response......

    Excellent points!

    Panentheism.........? Shucks, I was going to have it be a surprise!

    Teleology...... admitted to the discussion......? Some folks would rather admit a skunk to their cocktail party.

    Science go up in smoke.......? Well, no. Science is a wonderful human pastime that has afforded us many life-saving and life-enhancing technologies. Science needs only some 'house-breaking'. It needs to learn a little more tolerance for possible larger truths.

    Teleology <<>> monadology......? Yes, Leibniz was a few years ahead of his time!


    >>>
    Teleology is no less inherently "rational" than ordinary causality, once teleological explanations are admitted to the discussion.

    Human rationality is as a matter of fact centered on purpose. I suppose the objection to natural teleology is that this is nothing
    more than a false projection of human purpose on nature.

    But then can't the same be said of ordinary causality -- as Hume famously argued? And if so, doesn't the whole concept of "natural
    science" go up in smoke?
    >>>


    On Oct 15, 2015, at 6:10 PM, Paul Zielinski wrote:

    Teleology needs to be anchored in a universal telos in order to be bound to cosmic meaning.

    Similar to Leibniz's arguments for a supreme monad.

    I agree that a strong argument can be made that such meaning would necessarily imply personality.

    I would argue that all of this can be encompassed within some form of panentheism.
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    Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2 - Page 11 Empty Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

    Post by GSB/SSR Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:56 pm

    BPWH?

    “This version of the KN-08 has a much more credible design for the purpose of delivering nuclear warheads to American cities.”

    The design also suggested to analysts why Adm. Gortney could be so sure the KN-08 was in fact operational without testing. The missile’s new look, which also included a rounded nosecone instead of the tip seen three years ago, was a dead giveaway of its origin. “While there is no confirmation, the KN-08 exhibited in the recent parade in Pyongyang looks almost exactly like a version of the R-29, an old Soviet submarine-launched ballistic missile,” Bechtol told The Daily Beast ...

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/15/north-korea-s-scary-new-nuke-missiles.html

    You might want to hold any future meetings with Jack on the east coast! ;-)


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    Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2 - Page 11 Empty Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

    Post by Cyrellys Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:40 am

    Good Morning Dan,

    I just finished reading down the page here and I do belief you have several gems hidden among the trees. I'll copy and paste them below here shortly.

    My apologies for not being in here lately, I've been a bit on the busy side with a reorganization of my info storage system, and now a prospective 8 books on my plate to choose from. I am more than 1/2 way done with the first novel. I have some quotes from you and others on the S-list I want to include in it and will eventually send to each of you a letter requesting permission.

    I could help some with that connection between Jack & Depak, but I've been off the list again for some while (I suspect that may be due to not sporting a university pedigree on my wall -- not that I'd wish to stoop to one! Bleh.)

    FYI the Easterners don't have the market cornered on reincarnation; the revolving door of lifetimes. It just seems that way since University libraries are often selective in their perview of the world...a little cracked, through which flows whole rivers!

    But I cannot complain too much as many may be credited with translations of oral recitations such as was on Mingulay, an outer isle of Barra, where there was a man in Arisaig, one very old, who each morning would make an adoration to the sun, and to the moon, and to the stars, to then be preserved in the written word like the six volumes of the Carmina Gadelica. So I humbly bow before the several purposes of such pedigrees. Lol.


    Glory to thee,
    Thou glorious sun.
    Glory to thee, thou sun,
    Face of the God of life.


    Do you hear the echo of anamchara in the Sanskrit word "Brahmacharya"? In 1783 Sir William Jones did. Can this little bit be found in the library of Stanford?

    There are other congruencies that lead to clues you would find useful in your perusal...such as the Greek word for "fish" (ikhthus) and the Maori usage (ika): in Maori mythology, the North Island of New Zealand is Te Ika a Maui -- the fish of Maui. What is this? It is among the remaining evidence for global cataclysm...if you look some 12,000 years back. Sort of like the 13% ancient Irish genetics of a 12,000 years ago type in north eastern native americans that parallels a certain dense layer of dust in the geological record there.

    Cataclysms and the evolution of souls live side by side...have always.


    Self-identity is a miracle, as much or more than consciousness itself.

    Then there are individuals and individualism. Personalism favors inidividualism, so it seems. Look at me father, look at me.

    There is a background potentiality for self, but not just one self.

    Actions need be synchronized. There need also be a systemic curtailment of omniscience. (this curtailment is through limitations on memory in the physical form)

    In particular is Plato's good personal or not? Plato supposed it was not. I'm now looking for good discussion of the Good, particularly about its alleged impersonal aspect. (the American founders assumed it was personal, "Pursuit of Happiness" is capable of variation between individuals they supposed, but then this individualism in the collective is a Celtic notion; a culdean notion, rather forgotten by their heirs who suffer an identity crisis these days.)

    For Plotinus, the One is transpersonal. (ah! now we're gettin somewhere!)

    (Pelagianism: a Celtic Christian/druidic spiritual view)
    1. opposed the idea of predestination (exception: geis)
    2. asserted a strong version of the doctrine of Free Will
    3. accused Augustine of Hippo & others of denying the need for divine aid in performing good works
    4. was declared a heretic by the Council of Carthage
    5. fluent in Greek, Latin, and Theology
    6. practiced Asceticism - a lifestyle characterised by abstinence from worldly pleasures for the purpose of pursuing spiritual goals
    7. believed original sin did not taint human nature and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without special Divine aid.
    8. taught the human will as created with its abilities by God was sufficient to live a sinless life although he believed that God's grace assisted every good work.
    9. comes to be associated with the view human beings can earn salvation by their own efforts (protestantism/druidic)

    (Celtic Christians/Drui are also alleged to be Essenes who escaped the middle east; carried with them secret sacred knowledge; believed in reincarnation and the evolving soul...scholars don't allow for a more ancient origin and don't acknowledge that the Pharohs often called for their council recognizing their scholarship as far more ancient and of value as a world view.)

    BINGO: But I had not contemplated any return to the primordial potentiality. Maybe that was an error. Perhaps I should imbue potentiality with value. With eternality, logical succession need not imply the possibility of retracing the logic, in some sort of quasi-temporal fashion, by the individual. It would be the ultimate recycling of the self. (not recycling -- evolution)

    Outside of that temporal process, there still exists the cosmic self and potentiality. Perhaps my concern with recognizing the non-temporality of the primordial potentiality was that it would have the proclivity to spawn other worlds. If this world arises in a depedent co-origination, why not others?

    Once the cosmic self arises out of the potentiality, can it cease to exist, even in a non-temoral, logical sense? Has it not somehow 'saturated', or simply realized, the potentiality? Can it be unrealized? Does potentiality retain this ultimate power..... this ultimate potency? Somehow, the cosmic self cannot be duplicated. That's what Creation is about. Creation does saturate the primordial potential.

    (It's the other way around...potential saturates Creation)

    REVERB: Once the cosmic self arises out of the potentiality, can it cease to exist, even in a non-temoral, logical sense? Has it not somehow 'saturated', or simply realized, the potentiality? Can it be unrealized? Does potentiality retain this ultimate power..... this ultimate potency?

    (The ability of the container to realize the saturation can be damaged; the soul construct can be destroyed...I mentioned this to you once before...and I also said the ancients/non-terrestrials/UTH among some of the Others, consider this to be a "high-crime".

    FUNVAX
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAn38Z4Aweg

    (metabunk.org calls this hoax, dismissing a considerable number of hints in the deepweb that says otherwise.)

    That does not prevent an individual manifestation of the soul from experiencing the cosmic potency. God cannot? There is this limit on God's potency? Perhaps. Cetainly, the theists do not envision it! Well, God can experience the primordial potency vicariously, through us. But how can this raw potency be experienced w/o some notion of a subject to do the experiencing?

    (this is why a race suiciding itself creates a massive wave of disturbance in the in the co-origination, creating a perceivable highly obvious backlash in the potency; the potentialitiy)

    I think I'm running out of options wrt the Sarfatti list, in answer to a question posed by Ron this morning. I can't honestly say that his explicit support on the list would fundamentally alter the equation. The various interests will continue to talk past each other, ad-infintum. Posing as the gorilla in the wings will only invite a stoney silence. They have no measuring stick with which to make sense of the radical departures I propose, regardless of any urgency. The urgency will only produce a general paralysis.

    There is no logical bridge between Deepak and Jack. Brian is all too aware of his marginal satus vis-a-vis the mainstream.

    (your greatest issue is that the list does not understand what you want from them. You are buzz in their background. Their value system is based on an academic feudalism to which they religiously adhere. Notice;

    Psychologically they were better equipped than many others for such a bleak concept of their vocation, having been reared in a land where the fostering of children (establishment schools), physical alienation from their parents, was normal practice...they are the pueri Patricii of the modern world. IN this sense modern academia is a closed monastery, practicing aestheticism of the mind; a product of social and religious processes. For monks of academia the peregrinatio's of their vocations mean venturing no further than some slightly unfamiliar place in their native intellectual land. This is my experience among them, investing time to observe their choices, words, and behavior in their own habitat of self-limited anchor-holds. I ask have they lost the ability to evolve? Have they gone so far to wipe the ability to compromise their indentured enculturation? Look at Depaks fatalism for example. He as an academic holds direct responsibility for the fertility of the mind; to be an active presence in the collective imagination...yet see how he speaks in the list! Where is the accomodation of potentiality?)

    Put the ships over the cities, they said...

    ADDINAL: All the reports of anomalous things like remote viewing, precognition, psychokinesis... ‎these may be the tip of the iceberg and humanity may well be getting set up for another evolutionary leap into something that can handle much larger scales of space and time.

    (BINGO. Improved tools provide access to expansion of perspective. But those tools are earned.)


    QUOTE: On Oct 15, 2015, at 11:26 AM, Deepak Chopra wrote: The extinction of Dinosaurs led to Homo Sapiens . Our extinction could lead to a superior species ?

    (This is what was said about ETH - ET's concern about Earth and humanity...there are other species in this bio-preserve that have potential for advancement...that if freed from the shadow of mankind who seems too self-centered to shelter and mentor any such beings toward that end at this time, may rise in our stead. The story that may have been told to Deepak if he were party to that information, may have been that the OTHERS deemed no intervention due to that possibility; that potentiality...that humanity wrt survival as a specie is on their own and that the prospects against extinction are not good. To this might be added, "unless mankind can make an evolutionary leap that provides that capacity. I ask, how can those who believe the 'humane' thing to do is to commit the general population to suicide outside of their own volition; how can they know that the capacity has not already been embued in that population and that the potentiality was not recognized by the Ancients of the past? They cannot...their history is less than 12,000 years old. And they adhere or at least profess the religion of skepticism...of all that does not suit their purposes to be pseudoscience. They know not the value of the people...they - authoritarians in high places - know even less of Synchronicity. But they will tell you they do!)

    i.e. Fatalism in action:

    From: Deepak Chopra
    Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2015 11:17 AM
    To: Robert Addinall; Dan Smith; Anthony M Amadori
    Cc: .......
    Subject: Re: What we all believe in common..... the big T!

    Perhaps the human species is an experiment in Cosmic Mind --an experiment that seemed interesting at first but now considered one that did not work ?

    End quote.

    (need I say more on that?)

    Cy upending the message in the bottle in the middle of the room for all the world to see...The big man in the great dark suit with despair so intense it was palatable said, help them remember who they ARE!

    Cyrellys
    -- to knee before Synchronicity.


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    Rooster's Crow Confusion
    One thing else to end the deed --
    A dog with no Illusion.

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    Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2 - Page 11 Empty Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

    Post by GSB/SSR Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:52 am

    Op-ed in Russia Today:

    'America is a bomb waiting to explode'

    https://www.rt.com/op-edge/318986-america-bomb-society-crisis/


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    Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2 - Page 11 Empty Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

    Post by Cyrellys Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:37 am

    GSB/SSR wrote:Op-ed in Russia Today:

    'America is a bomb waiting to explode'

    https://www.rt.com/op-edge/318986-america-bomb-society-crisis/




    http://americac2c.com/forum/topics/iran-posts-video-of-secret-underground-military-base-filled-with-?xg_source=msg_mes_network

    http://allnewspipeline.com/Beyond_Creepy_Black_Death_Decoding_Strange_CD.php

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/msf-potential-evidence-was-destroyed-vehicle-kunduz-hospital-n445736

    Top theoretical physicist Kaku: ‘Colossal space object, possible alien superstructure, civilization, found 1,500 light-years from Earth’
    https://www.intellihub.com/top-theoretical-physicist-kaku-colossal-space-object-possible-alien-superstructure-civilization-found-1500-light-years-from-earth/

    Russia has made capturing Jihadi John a priority because the high profile ISIS executioner would be a huge propaganda coup, say US officials http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3278907/Russia-capturing-Jihadi-John-priority-high-profile-ISIS-executioner-huge-propaganda-coup-say-officials.html

    Iraq shows off airstrike by new Chinese-made combat drone (VIDEO) https://www.rt.com/news/318892-chinese-drone-iraq-airstrike/

    10,000 refugees entered Macedonia in 24h http://www.worldbulletin.net/headlines/165421/10000-refugees-entered-macedonia-in-24h

    Revolutionary ‘Psychic Robot’ Knows What You’re Doing Before You Do :Robots that can read minds: sounds like we’re well on our way to cyborg world domination, right? http://sputniknews.com/science/20151016/1028598826/psychic-robot-invention.html

    Turkey threatens to SHOOT DOWN Putin's planes as it drags West closer to war with Russia TURKEY'S Prime Minister has risked launching World War 3 between the West and Russia after threatening to SHOOT DOWN Putin's war planes in the country's air space. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/612828/Turkey-threatens-shoot-down-Putin-s-planes-drags-West-war-Russia

    Scientists at Large Hadron Collider hope to make contact with PARALLEL UNIVERSE in days SCIENTISTS conducting a mindbending experiment at the Large Hadron Collider next week hope to connect with a PARALLEL UNIVERSE outside of our own. http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/565315/Scientists-at-Large-Hadron-Collider-hope-to-make-contact-with-PARALLEL-UNIVERSE-in-days

    Cops are asking Ancestry.com and 23andMe for their customers’ DNA http://fusion.net/story/215204/law-enforcement-agencies-are-asking-ancestry-com-and-23andme-for-their-customers-dna/

    Google, the NSA & DHS are creating a global DNA database: THE FALLEN ANGELS WANT THEIR GENETIC SEED LOCATED AND IDENTIFIED-THEY SEEK THE UTTER DESTRUCTION OF THE SEED OF ADAM,AND THEIR CHILDREN CLONED BACK INTO EXISTENCE http://massprivatei.blogspot.com/2015/10/google-nsa-dhs-are-creating-global-dna.html

    Handheld DNA reader revolutionary and democratising, say scientists: designed to analyse DNA to help track disease outbreaks, check food and offer ‘the democratisation of sequencing’ GUESS WHAT THEY ARE REALLY LOOKING FOR? http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/oct/15/handheld-dna-reader-revolutionary-and-democratising-say-scientists

    U.S. Gun Maker Creates 'Crusader' Rifle That ISIS 'Can't Touch' AR-15 comes with Bible verse and Knight's Templar Cross etching; Council on American-Islamic Relations of Florida condemns the rifle. http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.674630

    Obama: Christians threaten nation;SO THIS ENTITY, WHO IS A MUSLIM, IS SETTING THE CHRISTIANS UP AS ENEMIES OF THE STATE, FOR TERMINATION -MEANWHILE HE DOES NOTHING ABOUT TERRORISTS FLOODING THE NATION! http://www.onenewsnow.com/perspectives/bryan-fischer/2015/10/16/obama-christians-threaten-nation?utm_source=OneNewsNow&utm_medium=email&utm_term=16782242&utm_content=457244438475&utm_campaign=21942

    Did parallel universe open up? Hundreds see 'floating city' filmed in skies above China http://www.express.co.uk/news/science/612531/Did-parallel-universe-open-up-Hundreds-see-floating

    Cash Ban: Greeks Face 'Permanent Cash Controls and Compulsory Use of Plastic Money' http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/cash-ban-greeks-face-permanent-cash-controls-and-compulsory-use-of-plastic-money_10142015

    Measles outbreak traced back to VACCINATED woman who spread the disease http://www.naturalnews.com/051587_measles_outbreak_vaccines_spreading_disease.html

    Massive US Senate Document On National And Global Weather Modification http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/massive-us-senate-document-on-national-and-global-weather-modification/

    GRAHAM HANCOCK ANCIENT & FUTURE CATACLYSM – THE GREAT RETURN OF THE COMET! DARK JOURNALIST http://investmentwatchblog.com/graham-hancock-ancient-future-cataclysm-the-great-return-of-the-comet-dark-journalist/

    US spy chiefs hunt the new Snowden: Whistleblower leaks top secret drone assassination program that reveals how 90% of people killed in one 5-month spree WEREN'T targeted http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3274583/US-spy-chiefs-hunt-new-Snowden-Whistleblower-leaks-secret-drone-assassination-program-reveals-Obama-authorizies-kill.html

    Scientists Claim Zapping Brains with Magnets Can Treat Belief in God https://stream.org/scientists-claim-zapping-brains-with-magnets-can-treat-belief-in-god/

    Illinois To Delay Pension Payments Amid Budget Woes: 'For All Intents And Purposes, We Are Out Of Money Now' http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-14/illinois-delay-pension-payments-amid-budget-woes

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3269082/ISIS-crucifies-beheads-trafficker-tried-help-people-escape-terror-group.html


    QUOTE:
    So now we know, if there is no power most places won't sell you the goods if they have them or not. Desperate people act desperately and even if you are willing to pay they won't let you.

    Hey Guys..I am writing to you today because I just had an experience a few hours ago that I never imagined in my life. Let me explain...We are having a funeral tomorrow at Church, we are serving a meal after the service. I went down to the Fellowship hall with Jim to set some things so it would be easier tomorrow. I had to prepare the ham and bake beans, I noticed we needed pineapple cherries and syrup. So Jim and I took off to Mountain City TN as we were driving towards Save A Lot I noticed a traffic light out, other that everything else appeared normal. When Jim dropped me off at Save A Lot I asked him to go across the street to McDonalds and pick up some burgers for Joe and his Boss. As I approached the sliding doors of the store they did not open I noticed the store looked very dark, like it was closed. A cashier opened the door by hand, I asked what happened, we lost power..I am thinking to myself One Second After...but this is worse...
    I saw David the manager and said I only needed 3 items, he said the registers will not work. As he went into his office trying to call the power company I turned to the cashier and said can't you write down what I bought, and look the total up on the tax chart, then I can write the check and you guys can run it through the registers later she shrugged... I left thinking if there is an EMP they won't sell you any food can goods whatever because the register doesn't work..OMG..So I get to the car I told Jim what happened he said he could not buy the burgers I said why the lights are on over there they said their computerized registers were down..I looked at him and said are you kidding me they rather throw the food out then run a tab...OMG I said to him , so if there is no power most places won't sell you the goods because they either can't do the math,or have inventory issues, kiss EBT good bye..How Nuts is this they will not write you a physical receipt and take exact change or a check. Now I can understand not taking a check from someone you do not know but not from a regular costumer.Ya know guys I use to sell my old comic books for 1 cent to 5 cents I never needed a computer for that or to have any yard sale, or Bizarre or Fairs at schools a pen and paper and an old cigar box worked just fine. So we went to Food Country USA, purchased what I needed the lights kept flickering while I was in the store...I got done ASAP...Jim and I discussed how ridiculous the businesses affected acted.No common sense.. So now we know, if there is no power most places won't sell you the goods if they have them or not. Desperate people act desperately and even if you are willing to pay they won't let you.. I ask you what is wrong with this picture, you just can't make this crap up..By the way Jim now wants to read One Second After . Now the Farm Supply will be able to sell you items if they are marked, if not it may take awhile to look up the paper inventory, not sure how that would work in an emergency situation...What a nightmare....Joy

    Oct 19, 2015
    END QUOTE.

    ****

    QUOTE:
    CONSIDER, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN SSRI’S AND OTHER ANTI-DEPRESSION DRUGS ARE CUT OFF ALSO-'ZOMBIE NATION' COME TO MIND, AND HAS THIS BEEN THE PLAN ALL ALONG?

    Hello Steve,

    I went to CVS on Friday to pick-up my 10mg Zolpidem (generic Ambien) refill. They didn’t have it and said the manufacturer is not making it any more. What do you mean, I asked? They are not manufacturing it at this time, everyone is on back order and they cannot get their orders filled. I managed to get it filled with double 5mg pills.

    I don’t know the extent of this problem. I do know that for those of us with severe insomnia (probably related to the chemtrails, fluoride, heavy metals, GMO, etc), we get very irritable with no sleep. This just feels like a puzzle piece in a bigger Illuminati New World Order rollout plan for maximum chaos when the civil unrest starts here in the US.

    I thank the Lord often for waking me up to see the truth outside the box and prepare for what comes. I have asked many times why he does not wake up everyone to what is happening. He keeps giving me the same answer: For some of us, he is preparing us for a long term plan, for many others, it is a short term plan. Then I get sad while thinking of the beheadings & torture of Christians in the middle east and the women raped in slavery and traded to a new Muslim man each month. I watch our Muslim president flooding our country with Muslims and I know they are coming for us next. Then I go to my mega church with thousands of other Christians where they never discuss world events as it might offend someone. I go home from Church each Sunday with sadness, knowing that most of them will be in that short term plan because the Church is not preparing its people for the days of darkness that we have just entered.

    Steve, I pray often for all of the watchmen’s safety as you bring us the truth of the times we live in and what approaches. I thank you for your sacrifices and look forward to reading your website daily and listening to your talk shows. PRESTON

    Oct 17, 2015
    END QUOTE.

    ******

    QUOTE:

    I ASKED A HIGH UP IN HOMELAND SECURITY HIS TAKE ON THE ESCALATING SITUATION IN THE MIDEAST

    If this war starts, DHS is going to attach itself to the military, If this starts then we may know why all those MRAPs have been given to all these local town police departments and such. Can you imagine the total anarchy that we are facing at any moment? One missle loosed, one US,NATO, OR EU plane shot down..and the armies will be raised and the march is on for Damascus and then the Kremlin. The White House would be obliterated by tactical nukes or the ICBMs. Hell is literally going to break loose. Cling to your bibles America and find God. For no amount of munitions and arms can prevent this judgement.SQ: I ASKED THIS BROTHER WHEN HE THOUGHT THE FIREWORKS AND WW3 WOULD GET UNDER WAY ...AND HIS RESPONSE IS HE'S AFRAID IT HAS ALREADY STARTED

    Oct 13, 2015
    END QUOTE.


    _________________

    "This is an indeterminite problem. How shall I solve it? Pessimistically? Or optimistically? Or a range of probabilities expressed as a curve, or several curves?..........Well.....we're Loonies. Loonies bet. Hell, we have to! They shipped us up and bet us we couldn't stay alive. We fooled 'em. We'll fool 'em again!" Robert Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.



    Rue she said Protection
    Rooster's Crow Confusion
    One thing else to end the deed --
    A dog with no Illusion.

    ~ Walter Wangerin Jr., Book of the Dun Cow
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    Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2 - Page 11 Empty Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

    Post by dan Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:06 am

    From: Dan
    Date: October 20, 2015 at 7:01:54 AM CDT
    To: "John
    Cc: ..........
    Subject: Re: Another think coming..... MoAPS!

    John,

    Yes, there is an 'impedance' mismatch here.......

    There may be some rather strange stuff going on back here, in DC. (I'm actually in Chicago right now. I may be headed back home or out to SF to a reunion.)

    It's hard to describe this 'stuff' to anyone who has not been mixed up with it for at least a decade or two. But here goes, anyway.......

    There are two meanings of 'apocalypse', we're dealing with both of them. Hopefully, we're going to be able to use the original meaning to counteract the more familiar one. The original meaning was just the MoAPS, which we use to counteract the catastrophe that some feel may lie in the not so distant future.

    What does metaphysics have to do with either kind of apocalypse? Possibly everything.

    If you like to be more technical, we're actually talking eschatology. Eschatology was a term that I introduced to Ron, 24 years ago, when he was still a junior officer. John has known Ron (Footmann) since college.

    Now, here's a problem, right here. I have almost no idea what any of you may know of this 'political' background. I have no idea how many of you have similar connections. Some of you do, I know. Please feel free to chime in........

    (Debbie and I are taking a brief respite in Chicago. She from caring for an ailing parent. I may head next to SF for a 50th reunion, and to catch up with the North Beach contingent. My internet time will be correspondingly sporadic for the next several days.)


    (cont........)
    cc: OMF



    On Oct 19, 2015, at 5:51 PM, John wrote:

    It seems some force may be pushing the world towards the brink, and although I am not sure what the vectors are all about, I do understand that Hilary staying in the race may be an indicator that our situation is worse than anticipated. We need to get through December before thinking too much about September, so I am signing up for an adventure with the Princess into uncharted waters. We are all going to take a hard look at options, with the Footman finally beginning to focus on Dan's gambit after decades of neglect. I understand one may not return, but I am not the least bit worried. I will be in charge of security, so the bird will be in my hand.
    John

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    Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2 - Page 11 Empty Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

    Post by dan Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:10 pm

    From: Dan
    Date: October 21, 2015 at 1:02:07 PM CDT
    To: "John S
    Cc: ........
    Subject: Re: Another think coming..... MoAPS!

    I did get one response, and that was a prvt one from Jack, asking me to make good on my IOU to him for 25K, from two years ago.

    Let's try this again.........

    This is a continuing 'experiment', from at least 1976 when I became sort of an experiencer and sort of 'born-again'. For the purposes of this list, I should stress that the 'scare-quote' is being used quite deliberately. My most recent arrest was at an evangelical church.

    Oh, dear....... I'm already running out of time again. I'm visiting Chicago, seeing plays and museums with Debbie. Tomorrow, instead of heading back to Baltimore with Debbie, I just got reservations to continue on to Stanford for my 50th, and then see Paul Z in North Beach. Jack is refusing to see me, due to financial arrears.

    No, I have an extra half-hour......

    Steve Hurlbut is my room-mate from Stanford, whom I had not spoken with in 50 yr, until yesterday. We were both in physics.

    I am stepping up the save-the-world 'game' since Ron told me, last week, that Aliyah would be advising Central Command on strategy wrt several challenges they are facing, particularly in the mideast, and particularly considering that they might be looking for an exit strategy. Oh, yes, I'm supposed to be advising the Princess.

    Wait, you say, why is it Ron's wife who is doing the advising? Well, that is just one of many irregularities that I've witnessed wrt him, over the past 24 years. Is any of it true? I'd probably be about the last person you'd want to ask. I've just been playing along, for all these years, and blogging about it. I'm probably too old, now, to learn any other tricks.

    I can only assume that, if this game has any merit, it increases the probability of the BPWH/SWH/CTC (4M/K/SoT/X2) of being in the right ball-park. Yes? No? Anyone care to give me odds?

    cc: OMF


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    Post by dan Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:04 am

    Testing Deborah Nash -- website posting

    Dan has asked me to help out with his postings and with the website dialogue. I'm glad to do so and looking forward to the online conversations with all of the members of the group.
    dsn

    ....Dan is currently in North Beach CA at the Cafe Trieste. Quite an interesting setting for philosophical conversations, it seems. Reserved "Philosophers' Table" -- maybe the ghost of "Jean-Paul" will appear?
    To visit this cafe, go to coffee.caffetrieste.com


    xxx



    1pm ----------

    This is Dan interjecting with a cut and paste operation that is flaky, at best, on OM.....

    From: Dan
    Date: October 28, 2015 at 12:44:00 PM PDT
    To: Bill L
    Cc: others .........
    Subject: Hello from the Cafe Trieste......

    http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/economist-2015-cover-filled-cryptic-symbols-dire-predictions/

    Hmmm........ An olde but goodie...... It is the Hong Kong edition of the Economist cover, Jan 2015. It may be a clue to the '32 Vectors' that Ron has been referring to.


    This is a slow process, please bear with us.........

    I'm adding names to list, and I apologize for any duplicates etc..........

    Please, use this list sparingly........



    (cont.........)


    cont'd.
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    Post by GSB/SSR Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:03 pm

    Tiger cage meetup?

    “Tenet charged us to piss off senior analysts. If we weren’t doing that, we weren’t doing our job.”

    Inside the CIA Red Cell
    How an experimental unit transformed the intelligence community.

    http://foreignpolicy.com/2015/10/30/inside-the-cia-red-cell-micah-zenko-red-team-intelligence/

    The following morning [after 9/11/2001], Miscik and two senior analysts formed the CIA’s Red Cell, which has been a semi-independent unit within the agency ever since. It is devoted to “alternative analysis,” which includes techniques like “what ifs,” Team A/Team B exercises, and premortem analysis, all of which are used to identify holes in a plan, model an adversary to understand their weaknesses, or consider all of the conceivable ways a plan can fail beforehand. The term “Red Cell” was chosen by Tenet personally; he believed it sounded alluring and conspiratorial ... Roughly 75 percent of its work is self-tasked and based upon analysts watching the calendar of upcoming events, scanning Twitter, blogs, and op-eds, or open-endedly brainstorming topics with colleagues and invited outsiders from the intelligence community and other government agencies, policy wonks, or academics.



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    Post by Foot Mann Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:08 pm

    Dan will be returning soon from SF where he was on an adventure.
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    Post by dan Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:18 am

    I don't think that it was just a stunt that 'we' pulled, a couple of miles off the GGB.  There was something going on, out there and ashore.  

    I think we have established that this StW operation is bi-coastal.  On the east coast we are bull-wrestling, but can't find the horns.  On the west coast we are bull-riding.  Off the GGB we were just plain surfing.

    I think that the cover of the Economist http://vigilantcitizen.com/vigilantreport/economist-2015-cover-filled-cryptic-symbols-dire-predictions/ does represent the 32 Vectors that we have been hearing about.  

    I think that the Princess does indeed intend to address the 'sociologists' at CentCom.  

    After SF, I'm beginning to take this StW stuff a bit more seriously.  I'm beginning to see how it might work, as a 'bi-coastal' cooperation.  Seeing is believing.  

    Yes, Gary, I think that the Red Cell may have some validity.  


    10:50------------------

    Then there is this....... http://allnewspipeline.com/Beyond_Creepy_Black_Death_Decoding_Strange_CD.php


    In a conversation earlier this am, Ron is not so vehemently denying that he might have played some role in the SF caper.

    Debbie wonders what I would do, if Ron suggested I go over Niagra Falls.  It was not like that.  It was just that he played a significant role in an ongoing series of events.  I did not even communicate with him on Halloween.  There was a whole series of continuing events on that day, that lead me, step by step, through the process.  I wittingly/willingly went along with the flow.  It was rather like the 5-day sequence of events in the Spring of '91 that set up my rendezvous with Ron in the Fall...... just more condensed.

    Perhaps I should have felt at risk, but, rather, I felt totally protected.  Everything just seemed to go very smoothly, in a 'logical' sequence, even in the 'hospital'.  


    Then there is the matter of the election and the September Surprise.......

    I'll have to say that Ron still thinks Hillary is quite vulnerable, even though Biden has dropped out, instead of her.  On the Republican side, there is some general speculation that Jeb might have more staying power than the rest of the field, and, ultimately, might be able to take advantage of those vulnerabilities in the general election.  

    You may recall that there was the suggestion, back when, that we meet with his brother, when he first ran, but nothing came of it.  Perhaps we will see a reprise of that suggestion.  Maybe I should sound out my sister, albeit in a very circumspect manner.  Maybe all of this could transpire with R&D staying below the radar.  That would certainly be the optimal course, I would imagine.  This would be one way to follow up, and pre-empt any negative surpise, such as the foreseen grid-lock.


    noon----------

    Ron checked to see if I were still interested in joining the Falun Gong.  We had explored that option many years ago, but nothing materialized.  Now, it might be different....... more things seem possible.... and time is shorter, evidently.  

    Steve H wants to speak with me about the trinity, but he was on the phone with someone from NYC.  


    BTW, if you wish to know who is playing along, you, very politely, ask if they are a sleeping dog.  The one correct answer is...... not if the cat scratches.  This code has some reference to the incident at R&A's with my face getting in the way of Baby the cat's being spooked by Rosie the rabbit, at around 3am, while we were sleeping on the living-room floor.  

    This above-top-secret code was relayed to me by the three 'members' of the harbor police squad that rescued me from the Pacific, and stood with me in the Coast Guard lobby, while the others were busying themselves inside, except when one of the others would step into the lobby to relay messages and/or receive instructions from my 'guards'.  Conveniently, these three, at least, turned out to also be FoR's.  We had a jolly time swapping Ron stories, while the more official business proceeded on, around us.  So it goes...... it's a small world, after all, it seems.  


    2pm-----------

    Ron makes specific suggestions, and then I do what I can to stay ahead of the curve, or otherwise expedite the process, always keeping an eye on the inevitable end-game, especially for transition elements to maintain as much continuity as possible.  Keeping the electricity flowing will, of course, be crucial.  Only much further down the road will our energy needs be transformed/transmorigfied, as we move past the Omega......


    4:30------------

    I had a conversation with my college roommate.  His email to me about the reunion is what triggered my leaving Debbie in Chicago, returning home to tend after her frail, demanding father, while I ventured out to my 50th reunion.  

    He understands my general situation with R&A, GFC, etc.  He is brave and kind enough to continue talking to me, despite all of the above.  But, other than his personal connection to me, he wants, in no way, to be assocated with any of my associates.  He became quite cross with me when I included him on one of the email lists.  

    We are both born-again Xtians, on the same year, about 15 years after we last conversed in college.  We had gone our separate ways, since college.  He was the only one, out of a class of 800, to mention his faith journey in the class directory.  

    Nevertheless we have diamertically opposed views concerning the Endtimes and Apocatastasis, and, especially, our relation with God.  

    It occurs to me that Steve and John are the only xtians with whom I have friendly relations.  It occurs to me, even further that John was Ron's main college buddy, but not his roommate, as was Steve, mine.  

    Ron reestablished his relation with John several years ago.  Ron was partly responsible for bringing John over to catholicism, back when they first knew each other.  But both very much play .down that curious fact.  

    R&A married in a mosque, with me as their best man, but they dropped out of it after about three months.

    Actually, we are assembling quite the motley crew of xtians, if you add Bridgid and a couple of others whose names escape me, right now.



    (cont.)

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    Post by Cyrellys Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:09 pm

    Hi Dan & Deborah,

    In response to your email to me, I'm afraid I'm out of the loop on the SF hijinx. I have not been on any of Dan's 'lists' here lately so I am in need of a translation of your description above, including on the acronyms.

    The Economist 2015 cover has what could be construed as a few of the 'vectors' but is far from a comprehensive list. I'd rather call it a view point, same as the author of the article did. It represents what may be one group's view of its proverbial cobweb. It's a bit myopic.

    Cy




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    Post by Cyrellys Thu Nov 05, 2015 8:39 pm

    ...on the problem of the evolving world order, the so-called elites seem to be marginalizing themselves. They've created situations deliberately, that seem to be designed to degenerate into utter chaos that does not resemble any order by anyone. They seem to be on the verge of 'checking out' and leaving a salted wasteland in their wake.

    Paul Begley's site, "Word On The Street" US SPEC Ops Firefight Russians In Syria "Unconfirmed"
    https://youtu.be/2tuEw6HGors

    'Russians were supposed to be our friends'
    https://youtu.be/7iVqOBfS53Q
    November 5, 2015
    Congressman Tells Shocking Truth: 'Now It's Totally Gone To Hell' - Warns 'Our Worst Nightmare' May By Stefan Stanford - All News Pipeline - Live Free Or Die
    Republican Congressman Dana Rohrabacher of California has a few minutes to go head to head with the US State Dept's Ambassador Anne Patterson over Syria, Russia and the Middle East as seen in the 1st video below and delivers a powerful message that Russia, Washington DC and America needs to hear. The "Russians were supposed to be our friends and we gave them hostilities" and then quite bluntly, "now it's totally gone to hell." Telling us that 5 years ago, Russian President Vladimir Putin tried to work out a compromise with the US over the situation in Syria, Rohrabacher deserves praise for telling Patterson our govts policy in Syria has caused our nation great harm and tells us that he believes that it is our hostility towards Russia that is preventing the world from coming together to work out a more stable policy for the entire Middle East.

    The Hungarian PM is hotter than rocket fuel over what's happening in Europe right now. Too bad a certain gentleman at IFPA seems off the map at the moment. I'd like to hear what he has to say on the situation over there at the moment. "VIDEO: HUNGARIAN PM CALLS MIGRANT INFLUX A 'TREASONOUS CONSPIRACY TO MARGINALISE NATION STATES' 'A deliberate conceptual project, which could be described as left-wing" http://www.infowars.com/video-hungarian-pm-calls-migrant-influx-a-treasonous-conspiracy-to-marginalise-nation-states/

    and then there's

    U.S. Gov Plans For 'Worst Case Scenario' EMP From Solar Event - Lights Out! :It really doesn't matter whether and EMP comes from a terrorist attack or a natural solar event, when it hits.... it is lights out. Are you prepared?

    or

    The White House Is Preparing for a Chinese EMP Attack :Declassified Intelligence Reports Reveal the Chinese First Strike EMP Option

    I got this push-me-pull-u imagery going in my head here...that looks like the blank screen Nasa gave: NASA ISS Cuts Public Feed After Locking On To 'Glowing UFO' - What Are They Hiding? http://allnewspipeline.com/NASA_Cuts_Feed_Glowing_UFO.php

    Is summer of 2017 still on the table?

    Maybe not...

    Forget the Black Widow, these cobwebs are much more deadly! Military scientists spray spider webs with Ebola and the PLAGUE: THIS EXPLAINS SPIDERWEB FILAMENTS FALLING OUT OF CHEMTRAILS RESIDUE ACROSS THE U.S.SEE MY ALERTS http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3297219/EBOLA-PLAGUE-sprayed-spider-webs-UK-MoD.html

    In respect to all these unacknowledged vectors, and others like them to call it an evolving world order is almost funny.

    I suppose I could break out all the gov docs on conquest by colonization but I know I've mentioned them here in the past or on my own pages...

    IT BEGINS: HAMTRAMCK FIRST AMERICAN CITY TO ELECT A MUSLIM-MAJORITY COUNCIL Hamtramck City Council in Michigan has done something never before achieved in the 239 years of the American nation. They have elected a Muslim-majority City http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/it-begins-hamtramck-first-american-city-to-elect-a-muslim-majority-council/

    ...meanwhile this land-sovereign is moving to affirm the militia system and am forwarding the words of one of Earths early Liberty Kings to a 'gathering of good people', with whom belongs the legacy of the Aes Dana, for it is by the establishment of the three lights that illuminate every darkness: truth, nature, knowledge that a deep water ship is restored. What should be of most remark here is the hour in which it becomes necessity for a land-sovereign to act.

    It is not prophetic sight that is necessary to remark upon the evolution of the world order, but rather interconnection. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see. It does however sometimes take the unusual to act. Dan is well versed in knowing this.

    Cy


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    Rooster's Crow Confusion
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    A dog with no Illusion.

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    Post by dan Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:16 pm

    What follows is an excerpt from a revised version, sent out a couple of hours ago to a blind list, of the original, Halloween edition, of the Princess Chronicles, that has been published monthly, for several years.  This is the first time that such sinister sounding language has been used........

    Cruise to the Source. All members of the Court are busy preparing for an upcoming Cruise to the Source. Sometime during the middle of the night, the Footman will scoop up Kashmir and transport her along with the Princess to an airstrip in Northern Virginia from which they will depart on the adventure. Others will arrive at the base of central command in Florida, and following a short briefing by the Princess, all will depart aboard a ship towards the Source. It will be a long and difficult passage, but the Princess will be escorted by her closest friends, their trust and loyalty keeping the crew calm as they approach the Source. They must get through December to prepare for September. One may not return, but without the risk, no pathway would open to the New World.


    The plot does thicken.  It may all be a joke, or it may _not_ all be a joke.  Ron's end of the 24 year R&D show may be emerging, now, with some alacrity.  Me?  I'm just Chicken Little...... WYSIWYG. As for my role, I'm the innocent bystander who, 24 years ago, volunteered for a critical mission........  Looks like the mission is about to be launched.  

    The SF caper/hijinks may have been a test cruise.  I managed to make it back to shore, with a little help.  The December cruise may have a slightly different outcome.  What advice do they give to the Army troops........ be careful what you volunteer for........!!



    (cont.)

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