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Where did all the Open Minds Forum members go?

Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:29 pm by Admin

With Open Minds Forum restored now for almost half a year at it's new location with forumotion.com we can now turn to look at reaching out to OMF's original members who have not yet returned home. OMF's original membership was over 6,000 members strong, prior to the proboards suspension, according to the rolls of the time. We can probably safely assume that some of those accounts were unidentified socks. If we were to assume a reasonable guess of maybe as many as 30% possible sock accounts then that would leave potentially somewhere between 4800 to 4900 possible real members to locate. That is still a substantial number of people.

Who were all these people? Some were average individuals with common interests in ufology, exopolitics, globalism, corruption, earthchanges, science and technology, and a variety of other interests. Some just enjoyed being part of a vibrant and unusually interesting community. Others were representative of various insider groups participating in observation and outreach projects, while still others were bonafide intelligence community personnel. All with stake in the hunt for truth in one fashion or another. Some in support of truth, and communication. Others seeking real disclosure and forms of proof. And others highly skeptical of anything or limited subjects. The smallest division of membership being wholly anti-disclosure oriented.

So where did these members vanish to? They had many options. There are almost innumerable other forums out there on the topics of UFO's or Exopolitics, the Unexplained, and Conspiracy Theory. Did they disappear into the world-wide network of forum inhabitants? Did some go find new homes on chatrooms or individual blogs? Did they participate in ufo conventions or other public events and gatherings? How about those who represented groups in special access? Or IC and military observers? Those with academic affiliations? Where did they all go and what would be the best way to reach out and extend an invitation to return?

And what constitutes a situation deserving of their time and participation? Is the archive enough? How exactly do people within the paradigm most desire to define a community? Is it amenities, humanity or simply population size for exposure? Most of the special guests have been emailed and have expressed that population size for exposure is what most motivates them. But not all. Long-time member Dan Smith has other priorities and values motivating his participation. Should this open opportunities for unattached junior guests who have experience and dialog to contribute to the world? How best to make use of OMF's time, experience and resources?

Many skeptics would like to see the historical guardian of discourse opportunity to just up and disappear; go into permanent stasis. They think that not everyone has a right to speak about their experiences and if there is no proof involved then there can philosophically be no value to discourse. I personally would respectfully disagree with them. Discourse has always been the prelude to meaningful relationships and meaningful mutual relationships have always been the prelude to exchanges of proof. In a contentious social environment with regards to communication vs disclosure how do we best re-establish a haven for those preludes? Is it only the "if we build it they will come" answer? Well considering OMF has been largely fully functional over the last four or five months this line of reasoning is not necessarily true. So what would be the best way re-establish this? Your suggestions are sought. Please comment.





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NSA says it has 'lost' its non-redacted UFO files.

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karl 12
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NSA says it has 'lost' its non-redacted UFO files.

Post by karl 12 on Sat Nov 15, 2014 4:51 pm

Posted a few weeks ago (September 12th) thought this was an important article from researcher Alejandro Rojas about the ongoing disclosure of contents from the hundreds of redacted National Security Agency UFO documents accessed by researchers in the 1990's.

Thing is, now it seems the N.S.A has lost them all.

It's a bit of a long article but there's also some interesting reading about the mysterious 'Yeates affidavit' and John Greenwald Junior's attempts at a Mandatory Declassification Review.. as well as related info concerning 'UFO lawyer' Peter Gersten's CAUS organisation suing the National Security Agency back in 1980 because it 'refused' to release its UFO files (according to a U.S. District Court Judge who wasn't even allowed to read the files 'The continued need for secrecy far out weighed the public's right to know').



NSA says it has lost its non-redacted UFO files





UFO and government secrecy researcher John Greenewald has been petitioning to get the National Security Agency (NSA) UFO files that were released in the 90s further declassified. When they were released, after a legal battle, much of the information was redacted. There are large swaths of information that have been blacked out or covered with white out. However, the NSA recently told Greenewald they could not find even one original of the hundreds of pages UFO files.

Greenewald received this information in response to a request for a Mandatory Declassification Review (MDR) of the NSA’s UFO files. MDRs require that the agency re-review previously released redacted files to unredact information that is now declassified. This is a similar process that was used to reveal the name of Area 51 in CIA documents last year.

The MDR was fulfilled for an affidavit related to the lawsuit asking the NSA to release its UFO files in 1980, called the Yeates affidavit. As for the rest, the NSA writes, “With the exception of the enclosed document, we cannot locate unredacted copies or the original documents that were previously reviewed and released to the public.”

In the late 70s, the Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS), headed by lawyer Peter Gersten, sought to get UFO files from several government agencies released using the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). The NSA refused to release their files, so CAUS sued.

The NSA had a large amount of UFO files, not necessarily because they were investigating UFOs, but because they monitor communications worldwide as part of their regular duties. These files are called communications intelligence (COMINT). Among this large amount of data, there were hundreds of files referring to UFOs. However, the NSA felt they should remain classified.

In 1980, Eugene F. Yeates, chief of the Office of Policy for the NSA, submitted a 21 page document to the judge overseeing the case, Federal Judge Gerhart A. Gesell, as to why these files should remain classified. This is the Yeates affidavit. However, this document was also classified.

Although Gesell did not have the clearance to read the documents in question, the Yeates affidavit convinced him that the NSA files should stay classified. He wrote, “The public interest in disclosure is far outweighed by the sensitive nature of the materials and the obvious effect on national security their release may well entail.”

When the Yeates affidavit was released, it was heavily redacted. UFO researcher Stanton Friedman shows a page from the document to demonstrate government UFO secrecy, and as he says, this goes over well on television where a simple image can be very effective when making a point.

Eventually, in 1997, due to laws making it more difficult to keep files over 25 years old classified, the NSA released a less redacted Yeates affidavit, and 156 UFO documents. As Friedman puts it, the affidavit was originally about 75% blacked out, the second version was only about 20% blacked out. However, the UFO documents are heavily redacted.

The NSA must have seen Friedman’s talks or television interviews, because instead of mostly blacking out the text, this time they largely whited it out, making it much less visually poignant..

Greenewald writes, “In essence, the ‘originals’ were destroyed or lost when they blacked out the records many years ago — and now in 2014 — they are missing and can not be further reviewed for declassification and release. The history, whatever it may be, is lost forever.”

Link



Video:

See 7:10



The NSA claims that it cannot locate the non-redacted versions of its UFO files.



For folks new to this subject (or who just haven't heard of him) then John Greenewald Junior mentioned in the article above gave a  presentation quite a few years back which is well worth a watch as he basically proves the contents of the 'USAF UFO Fact Sheet' are completely untrue just by citing the U.S. Government's own documents (he also makes some very good points about NORAD CIRVIS UFO reports).





For nearly 9 years, John Greenewald, Jr. has been exploring the archives of the U.S. Government for undeniable proof of the UFO Phenomenon. In those nine years, he has created the largest online archive anywhere in the world.


Likewise  Peter Gerstein has been quite a persistent chap over the years and here he is with Project Bluebook's Dr Hynek discussing UFO documents which are not meant to exist (particularly ones from the Defense Intelligence Agency).  


See 0:40



On June 24,1980 Gersten brought suit in the same District Court against the National Security Agency but this time on behalf of his own recently formed organization, Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (CAUS). His objective was 135 UFO related documents the NCI had refused to release. On November 18, 1980, based upon a NSA top secret affidavit which Gersten was not allowed to see, US District Court Judge Gerhard A. Gesell dismissed the lawsuit stating that 'the continued need for secrecy far out weighed the public's right to know.'

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dan
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Re: NSA says it has 'lost' its non-redacted UFO files.

Post by dan on Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:46 am

Thanks, Karl. Do keep us updated.
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karl 12
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Re: NSA says it has 'lost' its non-redacted UFO files.

Post by karl 12 on Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:28 pm

dan wrote:Thanks, Karl.  Do keep us updated.  

Will do Dan and there are plenty of other examples of Government UFO files, sensitive military UFO reports, official UFO footage, gun camera photographs, radar tapes, satellite data, Military pilot transcripts, Control Tower tapes, Naval log books, official UFO meeting minutes, security footage, physical trace evidence samples and official UFO investigation records being withheld, stolen, destroyed, confiscated or 'lost' as well - seems it goes on quite a bit.

Considering these NSA UFO documents were so important that a Federal Court Judge wasn't even allowed to read them then you'd think they'd be a little more careful when it came to remembering where they put them but not to worry - I always thought this case was a freaky one and as it happened at 'the home to the National Security Agency in Australia' I also wonder if some of the lost non-redacted files mentioned it (seems the RAAF Department of Defence were very interested in it).

Also, when it comes to telling porkies the Pentagon's Defense Intelligence Agency did send the NSA a copy of the Tehran UFO documents in 1976 which described the case as "an outstanding report. This case is a classic which meets all the criteria necessary for a valid study of the UFO phenomenon (link)" .. even though the US Government completely denies having any interest whatsoever in the UFO subject since 1969.

Likewise the NSA also received UFO documents from the US Department of Defense in 1980 concerning the Peruvian Air Force trying to intercept and destroy a UFO ('but the vehicle’s origin remains unknown' link) ..even though the US Government completely denies having any interest whatsoever in the UFO subject since 1969.

I suppose if this kind of blatant misrepresentation was about any other subject then everyone would be up in arms about it.

Cheers.

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Re: NSA says it has 'lost' its non-redacted UFO files.

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