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Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

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Post by GSB/SSR on Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

And for the insane, or other wise, we present:

Schroedinger's Cat is not Alone

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1004.4206v4

Beatriz Gato, Beatriz Gato-Rivera
(Submitted on 23 Apr 2010 (v1), last revised 31 Mar 2011 (this version, v4))
We introduce the `Complete Wave Function' and deduce that all living beings, not just Schroedinger's cat, are actually described by a superposition of `alive' and `dead' quantum states; otherwise they would never die. Therefore this proposal provides a quantum mechanical explanation to the world-wide observation that we all pass away. Next we consider the Measurement problem in the framework of M-theory. For this purpose, together with Schroedinger's cat we also place inside the box Rasputin's cat, which is unaffected by poison. We analyse the system identifying its excitations (catons and catinos) and we discuss its evolution: either to a classical fight or to a quantum entanglement. We also propose the BSVΨ scenario, which implements the Complete Wave Function as well as the Big Bang and the String Landscape in a very (super)natural way. Then we test the gravitational decoherence of the entangled system applying an experimental setting due to Galileo. We also discuss the Information Loss paradox. For this purpose we consider a massless black cat falling inside a massive black hole. After that we outline a method to compute the contribution of black cats to the dark matter of the universe. Finally, in the spirit of Schroedinger, we propose that next generation double-slit experiments should use cats as projectiles. Cat interferometry will inevitably lead to the `Many Cats' interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, allowing to shed new light on old mysteries and paradoxes. For example, according to this interpretation, conservative estimates show that decision making of a single domestic cat will create about 550 billion whole universes every day, with as many replicas of itself.


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Post by Cyrellys on Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:17 pm

dan wrote:Cy,

You speak of harmony.  Leibniz, the author of the BPWH, spoke of a preestablished harmony.  

Evil or dissonance is an essential component of harmonics, even when taken literally.  In music, as you may know, there is what is known as the wolf interval wherein we can have at most only 11 consonant tones in the twelve tone scale, leaving one of the intervals to howl like a wolf with respect to the others.  Much of classical music was invented in the elaboration of avoiding the 'wolf'.  The same might be said for societies in general.  Ernest McClain's 'Myth of Invariance' discusses how these technical seeming contrivances may also be found in the structures of our ancient cosmogonic 'myths'.  

In geometry we have the necessary existence of the irrational numbers, which drove the pythagoreans to distraction, and eventually gave rise to modern mathematics, not to mention modern music.  

Does not the splendidly detailed holograph we perceive of the universe speak volumes?

It's theme is not logical necessity. It's not optimization. It's nature; that character that comes from the construct created when any being makes choices within the ideas of either life and creativity, or destruction and nihilism.


What I'm trying to say is the Creation is a work of art, and that you and I are the artists, along with the cosmic intelligence, of course.  



(cont.)

No argument on that you say...speaking of wolf...as in F#?

When I mentioned harmonics I was actually talking about the components of the universe as waves...harmonics...light encoded truths or compilation constructs particle behavior which responds to both perception and intent because it is programmable.

Everything existing in wave form, constantly in motion...all created by consciousness...many faceted consciousness contributed to by individualistic and group matrices contributors.

Cy


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Post by dan on Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:41 am

Cy,

There is then just one thing standing between our worldviews.....

It is the question of quantity v. quality.

The point of the BPWH is that small is beautiful, but this sentiment is way out of accord with our modern, scientific sentiments. It is also out of accord with the biases of fundamentalist religions.

This, Cy, is why I speak of the Mother of all paradigm shifts. This is what I believe we are in for.

So, let me ask you, Cy, if you were God how big would your Creation be? This is something we might well discuss for the next several days. No?

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Post by Cyrellys on Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:47 pm

dan wrote:Cy,

There is then just one thing standing between our worldviews.....

It is the question of quantity v. quality.  

The point of the BPWH is that small is beautiful, but this sentiment is way out of accord with our modern, scientific sentiments.  It is also out of accord with the biases of fundamentalist religions.  

This, Cy, is why I speak of the Mother of all paradigm shifts.  This is what I believe we are in for.  

So, let me ask you, Cy, if you were God how big would your Creation be?  This is something we might well discuss for the next several days.  No?  


Dan wrote:This is something we might well discuss for the next several days. No?

If you wish.

How big would my Creation be? To me this seems a alien question. I think in terms of quality without limitation. My Creation does not have 'size' limits. It increases with my perception. As skill increases so to does what is perceived and so to does the potential available to my contribution to the whole.

Limitation is a human concept. It only exists if you desire it. I'm not one who thinks in terms of limitation. I think in terms of awareness and quality. There are no limits except in focus of the moment.

Many people have themes operating within their lives. It is easy to slip into a mistaken belief that reality is limited in some way because the evidence available in human perception seems restrained by themes, foci, geis, or peaks in imagination.

But where do these originate? And for what purpose do they exist? That should, IMO, speak volumes about perception of size, extent, or reach of intent.

Cy



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"This is an indeterminite problem. How shall I solve it? Pessimistically? Or optimistically? Or a range of probabilities expressed as a curve, or several curves?..........Well.....we're Loonies. Loonies bet. Hell, we have to! They shipped us up and bet us we couldn't stay alive. We fooled 'em. We'll fool 'em again!" Robert Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.



Rue she said Protection
Rooster's Crow Confusion
One thing else to end the deed --
A dog with no Illusion.

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Post by dan on Tue Apr 21, 2015 10:46 am

Cy,

We speak of quantity v. quality........

Yes, for an omnipotent Creator, there should be no trade-off.  It should be upward and ownward in perpetuity.  

How can there be a limit to omnipotence?  

If the Creator is infinite, and we are finite, then there should be an infinite number of us, creatures.  

But, wait, Cy, who says that we are finite?  Who is placing limits upon whom?  

Yes, I know that you did not say this, explicitly, but it is, nonetheless, implied in your logic of limitless omnipotence.  

So, I ask you this..... Is God growing?  Is God evolving?  This is what many of us are thinking.  We project our sense of limitation onto God, and so we suppose that omnipotence is the power to expand into perpetuity.  Hey, why not?!  

We, humans, just by self-definition, are limited beings.  It would seem that we are limited in every possible way, except, perhaps, in our fathomless propensities for stupidity and cruelty.  

And, as if in compensation, we are born with limitless imaginations and notions of transcendence.  If we are created in the image of our Creator, why can't we be omnipotent, unlimited?  Why should we be saddled with these feelings of inadequacy, in the face of endless possibility?  

Well, Cy, here is my little MoAPS......

We are not limited.  Well, yes, we are limited in space and time, but, guess what, space and time are only an illusion!  It is just that illusion which separates us from our Creator.  With the MoAPS, the illusion of space and time will fall away.  We will awaken to the fact of our unobstructed universe.  

This is a scary proposition.  We are like the sleepwalkers, walking on the edge of a precipice.  We cannot be awoken too suddenly.....  lest we make a misstep.  
------------

There is another way to look at this question, Cy.......

Which would you prefer to be......?  One of God's children, or one of God's spawn?  

To suppose that there are an infinity of ensouled beings is to suppose that we are God's spawn.  And, in supposing that there are no quantitative limitations on us creatures, we are supposing just this.  

But I can hear the objections.........

If God is omnipotent, then there would be an infinite amount of love available for an infinite number of creatures.  No?  

True, but that's not the whole story, is it.......?

If we are God's children, then we are Family.  We are all just brothers and sisters.  No?  

But how many sibblings can there be, and still be brothers and sisters?  How can we even think that 10^10 of us, humans, could ever think of ourselves as just one clan or tribe?  And what is the difference between 10^10 and infinity?  

All the difference in the world, Cy!  This is the crux of the BPWH/SWH.  

All we are family.  And it even goes further than that...... We are all soulmates.  You and I are each a reincarnation of the other.  We are all timesharing the same soul.  How can that be?  This comes straight out of relativistic quantum physics!  

Can you think of a better way to create a Creation?  

But this is not all, not by a long shot.  


The bottom line of the BPWH is apocatastasis...... we all return to, become one with, our Source.  This is the universal salvation/redemption/Telos of Creation,

Every theology and metaphysic foresees some such reconciliation and empowerment, in the end.  However, these other systems either postpone any such denouement to an unforeseeable future, or they place its outworking entirely in the hands of an arbitrary/unknowable Creator.  

But would this be the best possible world?  Of course not!  

The best possible world is of us, by us and for us.  Why should we suppose anything less, on the part of an omnipotent creator?  

IOW, Cy, our return to the Creator is up to us.  It will occur when and how we, individually and consensually, decide will be the best possible denouement.  

Right, now, most folks, like yourself, will say, well, Dan, thanks, but no thanks.  

Has anyone of us ever been in hurry to meet our Maker?  Heck, no!

Does anyone of us wish to participate in deciding our own ending?  Would this not be tantamount to Suicide by consensus?  

Worm your way out of that one, Danny-boy.....!  Hey, no problemo!


The decision, you see, has already been made..... by us and for us.  We have met the Creator, and the Creator is us.  

Huh......??  


Yes, this is, of course, the crux of the BPWH/SWH/CTC/MoAPS - 4M/K/SoT/X2...... if anyone can still recall.....

We are home free.  It's all over now, but the shouting, and we'll have just as long as we want to shout about it..... a thousand years, say?  

If I'm not totally off base, Cy, the BPWH has been ensconced in our innermost psyches, since day-one.  Nay, it is the essence of the cosmic Logos that exists far beyond space and time, as well as right here and now....... especially Here and Now.  

But, hey, don't take my word for this, Cy.  You have only to take another look right inside your own soul.  

From: Dan
Date: April 21, 2015 at 12:34:25 PM EDT
To: Paul
Subject: objections......?


Would Hegel, Leibniz or Aristotle have any objections.......

http://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t175p945-hello-cy-omf-ii-part-2#6086 ?

Could any sane person object, other than a professional materialist, who is paid to wear blinders?  




(cont.)


Last edited by dan on Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Cyrellys on Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:39 pm

dan wrote:Cy,

We speak of quantity v. quality........

Yes, for an omnipotent Creator, there should be no trade-off.  It should be upward and ownward in perpetuity.  

How can there be a limit to omnipotence?  

If the Creator is infinite, and we are finite, then there should be an infinite number of us, creatures.  

But, wait, Cy, who says that we are finite?  Who is placing limits upon whom?  

Yes, I know that you did not say this, explicitly, but it is, nonetheless, implied in your logic of limitless omnipotence.  

So, I ask you this..... Is God growing?  Is God evolving?  This is what many of us are thinking.  We project our sense of limitation onto God, and so we suppose that omnipotence is the power to expand into perpetuity.  Hey, why not?!  

We, humans, just by self-definition, are limited beings.  It would seem that we are limited in every possible way, except, perhaps, in our fathomless propensities for stupidity and cruelty.  

And, as if in compensation, we are born with limitless imaginations and notions of transcendence.  If we are created in the image of our Creator, why can't we be omnipotent, unlimited?  Why should we be saddled with these feelings of inadequacy, in the face of endless possibility?  

Well, Cy, here is my little MoAPS......

We are not limited.  Well, yes, we are limited in space and time, but, guess what, space and time are only an illusion!  It is just that illusion which separates us from our Creator.  With the MoAPS, the illusion of space and time will fall away.  We will awaken to the fact of our unobstructed universe.  

This is a scary proposition.  We are like the sleepwalkers, walking on the edge of a precipice.  We cannot be awoken too suddenly.....  lest we make a misstep.  
------------

There is another way to look at this question, Cy.......

Which would you prefer to be......?  One of God's children, or one of God's spawn?  

To suppose that there are an infinity of ensouled beings is to suppose that we are God's spawn.  And, in supposing that there are no quantitative limitations on us creatures, we are supposing just this.  

But I can hear the objections.........

If God is omnipotent, then there would be an infinite amount of love available for an infinite number of creatures.  No?  

True, but that's not the whole story, is it.......?

If we are God's children, then we are Family.  We are all just brothers and sisters.  No?  

But how many sibblings can there be, and still be brothers and sisters?  How can we even think that 10^10 of us, humans, could ever think of ourselves as just one clan or tribe?  And what is the difference between 10^10 and infinity?  

All the difference in the world, Cy!  This is the crux of the BPWH/SWH.  

All we are family.  And it even goes further than that...... We are all soulmates.  You and I are each a reincarnation of the other.  We are all timesharing the same soul.  How can that be?  This comes straight out of relativistic quantum physics!  

Can you think of a better way to create a Creation?  

But this is not all, not by a long shot.  


The bottom line of the BPWH is apocatastasis...... we all return to, become one with, our Source.  There is a universal salvation/redemption/telos of Creation,

Every theology and metaphysic foresees some such reconciliation and empowerment, in the end.  However, these other systems either postpone any such denouement to an unforeseeable future, or they place its outworking entirely in the hands of an arbitrary Creator.  

But would this be the best possible world?  Of course not!  

The best possible world is of us, by us and for us.  Why should we suppose anything less, on the part of an omnipotent creator?  

IOW, Cy, our return to the Creator is up to us.  It will occur when and how we, individually and consensually, decide will be the best possible denouement.  

Right, now, most folks, like yourself, will say, well, Dan, thanks, but no thanks.  

Has anyone of us ever been in hurry to meet our Maker?  Heck, no!

Does anyone of us wish to participate in deciding our own ending?  Would this not be tantamount to Suicide by consensus?  

Worm your way out of that one, Danny-boy.....!  Hey, no problemo!


The decision, you see, has already been made..... by us and for us.  We have met the Creator, and the Creator is us.  

Huh......??  



(cont.)





Dan wrote:But, wait, Cy, who says that we are finite? Who is placing limits upon whom?

Yes, I know that you did not say this, explicitly, but it is, nonetheless, implied in your logic of limitless omnipotence.


No Dan, I did not imply that at all. You are speaking of the physical form not the actually body of BEING.

Everything physical around us is a consequence of consciousness...awareness...belief and intent. That includes the vessel within which you reside. Are there rules here? Yes in a manner of speaking.

However I never implied the individual is either finite or infinite...the individual is Conscious.

And the individual while interconnected and contributing to a Collective consciousness is NOT hive-minded. The collective is more like an interconnection network...a sort of consciousness internet wherein the individual connectors are barely aware they are 'plugged-in' to all the others. At this point only a shadow of the thoughts and consciousness are shared between connectors, but the day is coming when it dawns on everyone that the connections is very real and great things may be done together with it.

Humanity has barely scratched the iceberg...there's much more to be seen and done.

In this sense you cannot "meet" your Maker for you are immersed in its Consciousness every moment of your conscious individuality. You are already deeply connected to it...but like others around you, you are barely aware of that connection. Some are already beginning a greater awareness through Synchronicity. And as that awareness grows, it's teaching of each will become more distinct and personal and each person's ability to converse and receive direct perceivable response will become more distinct. No longer will true interaction be limited to sages or prophets.

This is a threat to all religions and doctrines for no longer will the many be controlled by the few through conscripted histories, theories, patterns of conduct, or false carrots.

Humanity has only begun its journey through consciousness. It is consciousness that is omnipresent...not necessarily omnipotent. Like any physical life form it (consciousness) goes through stages of development.

You're still trying to jump to college before completing kindergarten, I see.

Cy



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Rue she said Protection
Rooster's Crow Confusion
One thing else to end the deed --
A dog with no Illusion.

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Post by dan on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:07 pm

Cy,

Jumping the gun, am I.......?  

Yes, and no........

My question back to you, Cy, is..... what are we waiting for?  

You seem to be waiting for more progress, more education, more evolution, etc..........

How much is enough?  How much would satisfy you?  

Are you not ready to meet your Maker, Cy?  How about another thousand years?  

I'm not saying that we are going to meet our Maker tomorrow. No!

What will happen tomorrow is that we will wake up to the fact that our Maker is ready to meet us, whenever we feel good and ready.

How is that?  

Would this be too much for folks to assimilate?
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Post by Cyrellys on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:08 pm

Dan wrote:Does anyone of us wish to participate in deciding our own ending? Would this not be tantamount to Suicide by consensus?

Worm your way out of that one, Danny-boy.....! Hey, no problemo!


The decision, you see, has already been made..... by us and for us. We have met the Creator, and the Creator is us.


The Creator is us, you say....And I say that is only as true as the child is a partial mirror of the parent. The Creator and the Others existed in this Consciousness/Universe long before we ever came on the scene. Every race and specie out there is unique in some way. Each contributes to Consciousness in some way but at the same time is individual in some way.

If the human race suicides, mistakenly believing it with all its individual parts will return to the Source when it never was wholly separate from the Source, will only be committing a crime...to suicide in such a way destroys soul constructs not just the physical forms. That is a crime by the standards of higher universe. Murder. Murder is not natural.

Every race and specie in the universe is subject to possessing natural rights which is a construct of the Source, natures god. Physical bodies may come and go but those rights are attached to the souls. Do things which destroys the souls and you commit a crime.

It disturbs the universe and the Source anytime souls are threatened with destruction.

There are those on this world who have the proverbial matches and who believe in your "return all souls to the Creator" through soul destruction because it serves their purposes. Those who don't know the facet of this involving soul destruction but only believe it is about returning to the Source don't realize this is tantamount to a true extinction and that they will never rejoin the Source. Those who believe this deliberate act by the elites is only about destroying the physical because of a planetary ELE event which would destroy it anyway or cause great suffering for there not being enough perceived resources to get everyone through the coming bottleneck, don't realize that this will only throw mankind back into the stone age IF such a suicidal act is survived.

Is it any wonder this world has attracted so much of the universe's attention?

The choice you describe is NOT the choice of the collective. It is the choice of elites attempting to force their will AGAIN upon the many.

If such an attack occurs there are those who have been brought to and into this world to intervene despite the so-called rules. The elite will not escape punishment.

Cy



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"This is an indeterminite problem. How shall I solve it? Pessimistically? Or optimistically? Or a range of probabilities expressed as a curve, or several curves?..........Well.....we're Loonies. Loonies bet. Hell, we have to! They shipped us up and bet us we couldn't stay alive. We fooled 'em. We'll fool 'em again!" Robert Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.



Rue she said Protection
Rooster's Crow Confusion
One thing else to end the deed --
A dog with no Illusion.

~ Walter Wangerin Jr., Book of the Dun Cow
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Post by Cyrellys on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:19 pm

dan wrote:Cy,

Jumping the gun, am I.......?  

Yes, and no........

My question back to you, Cy, is..... what are we waiting for?  

You seem to be waiting for more progress, more education, more evolution, etc..........

How much is enough?  How much would satisfy you?  

Are you not ready to meet your Maker, Cy?  How about another thousand years?  

I'm not saying that we are going to meet our Maker tomorrow. No!

What will happen tomorrow is that we will wake up to the fact that our Maker is ready to meet us, whenever we feel good and ready.

How is that?  

Would this be too much for folks to assimilate?


To meet ourselves, as in becoming consciously aware of how much there truly is to humanity and its POTENTIAL, is accurate.

To be absorbed by the Creator in the manner you have described because of it "is ready to meet us" is inaccurate.

There is no disconnect between any living being and the Creator.

There is only consciousness of varying degrees.

Cy


_________________

"This is an indeterminite problem. How shall I solve it? Pessimistically? Or optimistically? Or a range of probabilities expressed as a curve, or several curves?..........Well.....we're Loonies. Loonies bet. Hell, we have to! They shipped us up and bet us we couldn't stay alive. We fooled 'em. We'll fool 'em again!" Robert Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.



Rue she said Protection
Rooster's Crow Confusion
One thing else to end the deed --
A dog with no Illusion.

~ Walter Wangerin Jr., Book of the Dun Cow
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Post by dan on Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:29 pm

Now we're getting down to the nitty-gritty........

You keep supposing that our part of Creation is an experiment that may be about to go terribly wrong.........  

OTOH, you ask...... "Is it any wonder this world has attracted so much of the universe's attention?"

This is exactly my point...... Yes, we have become the Center of attention, but, guess what...... We have always been the center of attention.  

You know the warning about putting all of one's eggs in one basket.  But should this warning apply to God?  Is there any reason why God should not put all of her eggs in one basket?


Right now, I have to go visit a lawyer to prepare for my trespassing trial, next week....... trespassing at Grace Fellowship Church, that is.....


The whole point of christianity, as opposed to the other monotheisms, is that we are the focus of attention. I understand that you are not an xian, and I equally understand that Jesus and/or Paul may have been delusional. But maybe they got this one thing right....that we are special.

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Post by Cyrellys on Tue Apr 21, 2015 3:39 pm

dan wrote:Now we're getting down to the nitty-gritty........

You keep supposing that our part of Creation is an experiment that may be about to go terribly wrong.........  

OTOH, you ask...... "Is it any wonder this world has attracted so much of the universe's attention?"

This is exactly my point...... Yes, we have become the Center of attention, but, guess what...... We have always been the center of attention.  

You know the warning about putting all of one's eggs in one basket.  But should this warning apply to God?  Is there any reason why God should not put all of her eggs in one basket?


Right now, I have to go visit a lawyer to prepare for my trespassing trial, next week....... trespassing at Grace Fellowship Church, that is.....


We have not always been the center of attention in the manner you are ascribing and the part of

"But should this warning apply to God? Is there any reason why God should not put all of her eggs in one basket? ".

Those pieces are a misnomer of Christian belief that was never intended and which has been cultivated by theologians and their structures.

Stephan Stanford AllNewsPipeline wrote:With six US citizens arrested within the last 24 hours attempting to join ISIS as shared in the 3rd video below from ABC News, 190 US cities have been 'secretly selected' to receive a massive influx of Muslim immigrants via the US State Department in their bid to 'destroy America from within' by creating a 'nation within a nation' within the United States. Residents of these cities have been left angry and uninformed as they have been unable to get any information from authorities about whether or not these 'new residents' are possibly members of ISIS with the intention of slaughtering Christians here in the USA. We also have received new information that ISIS may already be here in America, ALREADY beheading Christians

Source: http://www.allnewspipeline.com/Christian_Slaughter_In_America_Cities_Named.php


But having small errors of ego does not warrant the above noted by Stephan.

Notions of ego generally resolve themselves over time.

Cy





_________________

"This is an indeterminite problem. How shall I solve it? Pessimistically? Or optimistically? Or a range of probabilities expressed as a curve, or several curves?..........Well.....we're Loonies. Loonies bet. Hell, we have to! They shipped us up and bet us we couldn't stay alive. We fooled 'em. We'll fool 'em again!" Robert Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.



Rue she said Protection
Rooster's Crow Confusion
One thing else to end the deed --
A dog with no Illusion.

~ Walter Wangerin Jr., Book of the Dun Cow
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Post by dan on Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:48 pm

Cy,

It is very possible that everything you believe about the world is exactly correct, and that everything I believe is exactly wrong.  

This is, after all, the Open Minds Forum.  I have gone out of my way to expose myself to as many belief systems as possible.  Over the years, I have adopted and adapted many of the beliefs and ideas of these various traditions.  

Out of these sources, I have gradually constructed what I call the Best Possible World Hypothesis (BPWH).  Even after nearly forty years of this work, mostly on a fulltime basis, I still come across new ideas to be integrated into the BPWH.  Only in the last few days, have I finally gotten around to a close reading of Hegel, wherein I find a goldmine of useful thoughts.  


In the meantime, my Grace Fellowship Church 'trespassing' trial date is on Tuesday.  I face a possible $500 fine and up to 90 days in prison.  Trespassing is generally considered a misdemeanor.  

Ron wrote a lengthy outline of my defense options, which has been forwarded to my attorney, Jane L.  Jane and Sam have urged me to plead guilty.  Ron urges a not guilty plea.  

OTOH, Ron has volunteered neither to call Jane nor to appear in court.  That does leave me somewhat twisting in the wind, does it not?  

Unless the charges are dropped, which has not happened, up to this point, or the case is dismissed, on Tuesday, I believe that there is an automatic right of appeal.  In such an appeal, my attorney could subpeana Ron as a material witness, which he was, having been on my speaker phone from the moment of my entering the church until the police confiscated my phone when they apprehended me about a half-hour later, in the prayer room @GFC.  

This incident tookn place on Jan 11.  That previous Monday, I had sent an email to Danny O'Brien, chief pastor, and some members of our Search for Answers (SfA) ministry, expressing my renewed sense of urgency with respect my putative eschatological mission.  I suggested that the optimum manner in which I might display this urgency would be by threatening to pull the power cord on Bill Stever's usual Sunday power-point presentation.  Mind you that GFC is a mega church, with several thousand active members, and that the SfA meetings in a small side room are seldom attended by more than a dozen of us.  The mere existence of the SfA is seldom mentioned in the church publications, although it was founded by someone who is now considered a leading Christian apologist.  

And what specifically precipitated this renewed sense of urgency?   It was the very sudden and premature death of our titular leader, Prof David Yue, JHU, two weeks prior.




(cont.)



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Post by Cyrellys on Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:49 pm

I don't know the situation or circumstances of your experience. But I would never plead guilty to something I were not guilty of, and as far as I was aware you were a long time member of that Church, interacting with members and participating on occasions in dialogs involving your ideas. That hardly seems to qualify as trespassing. So someone decided they didn't like your ideas and decided the legal version of throwing you out rather than squarely facing your ideas was appropriate? That's a chicken-sht way out of any dispute. But like I mentioned before in the last link I posted, Xtians are becoming quite willing to shoot first and ask questions later since they are globally under attack and the very governance they helped create now is setting up to exterminate them because of a little known coup that occurred in this nation quite some time ago, that mind war maintains is a 'conspiracy theory'. Anyone who doesn't tow the parrot the psy-op like a good little bird is subject some version of guillotining. It's german post-war thang...or some might say courtesy of the Gnomes of Zurich. But offering up the unauthorized biography of George Bush or anything on Skorzeny or the Ghelen organization, let alone Cromwell & Sullivan wrt the two Dulles might only serve to turn your trial into a three ring circus.

QUOTE:

I talked with a co-worker tonight who is a reservist in the Army National Guard. He said that no one in his unit can get any answers on Operation Jade Helm 15. They are being ordered by command to not inquire about it, which is making them suspicious

Steve,

I talked with a co-worker tonight who is a reservist in the Army National Guard. He said that no one in his unit can get any answers on Operation Jade Helm 15. They are being ordered by command to not inquire about it, which is making them all grow more suspicious and wary about what's going on behind the scenes. He said that all of the non-commissioned officers know they are purposely being kept in the dark about the true intent of Jade Helm, and that it truly is "unconventional warfare" and unprecedented for the U.S. military.

Also, today a local friend of mine and a former Marine buddy went to get eyes on the Walmart that closed in Brandon, FL, which is 30 miles from me here in Lakeland. From their vantage point they could see that the store was heavily guarded by DHS troops, and that a train which was stopped on the tracks adjacent to the Walmart was laden with military hardware, and more surplus gear in the surrounding area waiting to be staged.

All of that for plumbing problems and/or employee standoffs, right?

I watched the video by Dr. William Mount of Channel 77 in Seattle, describing a U.S. Army logistics class he took in which the Army had strategically set-up a concession of Walmarts throughout the nation in a backroom deal to be repurposed as federal military supply depots/distribution bases in the event of a national crisis:

https://youtu.be/PS7Jl1dMIOY (3:03)

That makes a lot of sense, considering their strategic locations in every major American city, access to major roads, their vast warehouse and floor storage space, and the pre-existing surveillance systems already in place at every store.

With that said, I also took to heart the recent alert on your Alerts page from the former Navy Seal regarding America’s police state, the border, Russia, Walmart and World War III:

http://www.stevequayle.com/index.php?s=33&d=1383

Those are all questions which no one without a security clearance is privy to the answers. Deception is, as you know, inherently the hand of evil.

It is getting very close, and every veteran buddy of mine I talk with agrees that with the scope and scale of this operational roll-out, the federal government is preparing for a major event, whatever that may be. And it's right here at home, in my county. With that realization, a lot of my people here are at a heightened state of alertness and readiness, anticipating the worst.

Also troublesome is the connection of Jade Helm (Stone Guide) to the Georgia Guidestones, America's anti-human Stonehenge-like outdoor temple of the sun.

Stay alert! For our adversary knows he has but a short time left.

Apr 23, 2015



_________________

"This is an indeterminite problem. How shall I solve it? Pessimistically? Or optimistically? Or a range of probabilities expressed as a curve, or several curves?..........Well.....we're Loonies. Loonies bet. Hell, we have to! They shipped us up and bet us we couldn't stay alive. We fooled 'em. We'll fool 'em again!" Robert Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.



Rue she said Protection
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One thing else to end the deed --
A dog with no Illusion.

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Post by Cyrellys on Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:53 pm

Whatever you choose to do, stay out of the jail part, even if you have to pay through the nose. Might not be 90 days left and jail is the wrong place to be when shtf.

Cy


_________________

"This is an indeterminite problem. How shall I solve it? Pessimistically? Or optimistically? Or a range of probabilities expressed as a curve, or several curves?..........Well.....we're Loonies. Loonies bet. Hell, we have to! They shipped us up and bet us we couldn't stay alive. We fooled 'em. We'll fool 'em again!" Robert Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.



Rue she said Protection
Rooster's Crow Confusion
One thing else to end the deed --
A dog with no Illusion.

~ Walter Wangerin Jr., Book of the Dun Cow
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Post by dan on Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:30 pm

Cy,

90 days v. 16 months........

I'll stick with Ron's 16 month timeframe, until I see or hear otherwise.  I would imagine, however, that there would be deployment exercises, such as your informant observed, prior to that date.  

But, yes, the trespassing trial, especially if it goes to appeal, could easily become a 'three-ring circus'.  

My only material witness would be Ron.  Of course, he could refuse to testify, on grounds of natitonal security, or he could attempt to deny, deny, deny.  

The least that I can do is keep this option open for whomever might be on the Disclosure team.  It may be part of the plan to encourage a full prosecution.  I would not put this past them, not one bit.  

But, yes, it will be noted, for the record, that I had been faithfully attending SfA/GFC, every Sunday I was in town, for the past three years.  

So there we are.  Since last speaking with Ron, I've been apprised of a communication with a third party, wherein he stated that he had advised me to stay away from the church.  Of course, we don't want it to appear that I was not acting, ultimately, on my own recognizance.  


Cy, do you suppose that it is too late for 'divine' intervention wrt our Apocalypse?  It may be, however, that even the best planned strategy for Disclosure could precipitate a public panic.  Should there be no contingency plan for that possibility?  



(cont.)
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Post by Cyrellys on Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:49 pm

dan wrote:Cy,

90 days v. 16 months........

I'll stick with Ron's 16 month timeframe, until I see or hear otherwise.  I would imagine, however, that there would be deployment exercises, such as your informant observed, prior to that date.  

But, yes, the trespassing trial, especially if it goes to appeal, could easily become a 'three-ring circus'.  

My only material witness would be Ron.  Of course, he could refuse to testify, on grounds of natitonal security, or he could attempt to deny, deny, deny.  

The least that I can do is keep this option open for whomever might be on the Disclosure team.  




(cont.)



WRT the 90 days vs the 16 months THOSE are two different things.

the 16 months per RP or 18 months per the Other party is the main event.

the 90 days pertains to the attempt to pickup, incarcerate and eliminate anyone who is awake and aware; predominantly Red List or Blue List.

FYI in 2008 I wasn't on either list. Now since I walked out into the sunshine on the UN Meeting deal, I wouldn't bet money that's no longer the case. And based on the experience of the System Inhabitants, I also doubt they're going to be indifferent about peripherals...they've discovered that the entire general population is circumspect and likely to turn on a tyranny...the vast purchases of weapons over the last seven years sealed that guess into solid belief.

It is also doubtful that RP will escape such a sweep either. What do you say Footman? Do you believe you're immune? Nice timing on suggesting a cruise. Make sure any of your group who can't jog a mile and skip three days of meals while keeping hale, is on it. And have somewhere outside of the Country to go if things get ugly...recognizing friend or foe will be problematic. The System you thought was friend won't be and the opposition won't have time or resources to devote to defending you.

Does anyone here think that all the veterans who're currently watching this build up to this pre-event in July or September depending upon your interpretation, are seriously going to wait for the System Lords to choose the battlefield, the method, the means, or the outcome?

The System Inhabitants created the implosion they feared. Gluttons for punishment prior to event. I can't help huggers of shrubbery. That was their personal choice.

Sovereign Bastard's Document Hooch
http://thementalmilitia.com/forums/index.php?topic=34913.30

Forewarned is forearmed. Stay out of jail.


_________________

"This is an indeterminite problem. How shall I solve it? Pessimistically? Or optimistically? Or a range of probabilities expressed as a curve, or several curves?..........Well.....we're Loonies. Loonies bet. Hell, we have to! They shipped us up and bet us we couldn't stay alive. We fooled 'em. We'll fool 'em again!" Robert Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.



Rue she said Protection
Rooster's Crow Confusion
One thing else to end the deed --
A dog with no Illusion.

~ Walter Wangerin Jr., Book of the Dun Cow
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Post by dan on Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:23 pm

Cy,

You agree that the Earth may have been the focus of cosmic attention for some time.  Do you really suppose that the cosmic PtB have not foreseen this eventuality, and already have in place some dramatic countermeasures, so as to neutralize the earthly PtB.  Could the cosmic beings be quite so clueless, callous and powerless?  

Would it be beyond your powers of imagination to suppose that you and I might have non-trivial roles to play, therein?  


In the meantime, allow me to get back to philosophy and metaphysics.  Could there be any better stress relievers.....?  

I have never previously directly addressed naive realism, q.v......

I'm now reading the wiki entry for the first time, only to discover that I have been a naive realist, all along. Only now do I discover that naive realism is not the same as scientific realism, as I had naively supposed. Rather, naive realism is generally taken as synonymous with direct realism, which I've long advocated.




(cont.)
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Post by dan on Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:06 am

Well, sports fans, we are coming down to the wire, with the trial on Tuesday........

Everybody, except Ron, is telling me to cop the plea..... of guilty, and get off with a couple hundred dollar fine.  Ron says to plead not guilty and embarrass the church, and maybe hit them with a suit for false arrest.  

It was Paul who came up with the idea of my not having a criminal intent, hey all I wanted to do was discuss theology, and maybe hand out a flyer to my six SfA buddies, drawing a diagram explaining the katechon, an idea that may well have come from our recently departed leader, David Yue.  That diagram was posted here, on about Jan 8.  

But, then, driving home from R&A's, I remembered the incident that I had precipitated on the previous Sunday, when I banged my fist on a table, saying that, with my new sense of urgency in the aftermath David's sudden, premature demise that I had lost my patience with Bill's endless power points, which I now took to be a perpetual fillibuster, and the embodiment of the Katechon/Restrainer.  

So, no, I was not coming to GFC/SfA expecting to suddenly be allowed to present my ideas.  I was not totally surprised when JP called the police.  I cannot claim total innocence.  Failing that, I should cop the plea.  Yes, Ron?  

But here's the caveat.......

Neither can I promise to abide by the court's admonition to stay out of trouble for the next 12 months or so.  Because, in my little mind, this case is not just about my desire as a wannabe preacher, now is it?  

This is also about Ron's being my stalwart hand holder.  As my lawyer, Jane L, has stated, it ought to be Ron who is on trial, here, bless his little heart.  

Over the years, I've done almost everything I can to get Ron in trouble, as you, good folks @OM, may well testify.  All I've gotten him in, so far, is an adult sized pair of asbestos BVD's.  Well, maybe it's time to give those BVD's another little flame test, and all I have to do is refuse to pay any fine, and refuse to abide by any probation, and so I can expect to do my 90 days in the clinker.  But you folks will have to do your part, here, in my probable absence.  

Being in the slammer will just keep me out of worse trouble, out on the mean streets of evangelical/academic certitude.  

And, hey, I'll finally get the captive audience that I so richly deserve, along with free room and board.  I get none of that here, now, do I, Cy?  

Besides, Debbie has promised to send me to the Red Roof Inn, if I don't pay my fine, where, again, I'll have none of the fringe benefits.  

All kidding aside, there is, no, there may be the proverbial 800# gorilla lurking in these shadows, that is if Ron is not just being the practical joker that he sometimes is.  According to Ron/CK/Pelican/Catfish, the clock is still ticking on our 18 month countdown to........ some sort of meltdown, per the alignment of the various (eschatological?) vectors.  

Can anyone think of any more expeditious way to put Ron's BVD's to the flame test?  And he's got a lot a 'splainin' to do.  No?  

And time is, according to Ron, running out, finally.  

Or I could chicken out, like the time I threatened to land a plane on the White House lawn.  Well, I did almost get my license renewed, didn't I, Ron?  Like I say, not paying a fine may just be about staying out of worse trouble.

Have I left anything out.......?


Did a little birdie just tell me they don't serve wine in the calaboose?  



(cont.)



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Post by Foot Mann on Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:16 pm

Dan

As the Scribe, it is your responsibility to report the incidents as they occurred, not as you hope they had occurred. The future is yours to change, not the past.

That said, if you choose incarceration as your way ahead, you should arrive on Tuesday prepared in orange jump suit, with a blank box on the front and back for the Judge to fill in your number. I think you know what that will be.

But before you proceed to the Red Roof Inn, inform the judge that you need to first serve time on a ship, as Royal Scribe on the Sea Based Adventure. The Judge will respond accordingly.

Foot Mann
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Post by dan on Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:24 pm

Foot Mann,

Well, I thought I had adequately proven that serving time on a cruise ship will not likely keep me out of worse trouble.  

I'm waiting to see the offer that will more likely, or less unlikely, alert the world to this, now, fifteen-month countdown to 'armageddon'.  

Am I doing due diligence, if I don't put my own little self on this line?  I have been jawboning for forty years, and where has it gotten us?
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Post by dan on Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:17 am

If, in fact, Ron/FootMann is actually looking at eschatological vectors, then it is hardly implausible that I am one of those vectors.  If so, I have incurred additional reponsibility to indicate my impatience wrt Disclosure, presuming that there is or ought to be a connection.  

What I should be doing is coming up with a plan of action.......

In the past, when I have made statements to him wrt eschatology, he has said, ok, but where is the action item?  

Presumably there is a plan in place, with several options and contingencies, one would hope.  So where is my action item, in that mix?  Lacking any substantive sugestions, I can only adlib.  Perhaps the cruise was supposed to have provided a working session, in fact, this has been stated, but only in the most general terms.  There has been no suggestion of a follow up, not even that KWF would or could be rededicated along those lines.  As usual, I'm left twisting in the wind, even as the wind seemingly grows stronger.  

Possible jail time might be a bargaining chip in that regard, but I see no indication to that effect.  I would just be wasting my own sweet time.  But having tried every other way to express my own concerns, I feel obligated to take one more opportunity for this expression, an opportunity that sits right in front of me.  How else to exercise due diligence?  Going to jail is a time-honored way to register a conscientious objection to a given state of affairs.  Who am I to turn away from that tradition?  

From: "Rev Dr Anthony G. Pike"
Date: April 25, 2015 at 10:36:33 PM EDT
To: cosmicrfgroup
Subject: Dan Smith Arrested!

Theocratic Parliament of America

St Anthony - giving America back to its rightful owners

Just received news from our CIA insider, Ron Pandolfi, 57, in Great Falls, VA that our White House insider, Dan Smith, 70, in Baltimore, MD has been arrested for asking questions in a church meeting and is now officially a criminal!! Ron says that everyone should have the right to ask questions, especially in a Bible Study class entitled In Search of Answers. Hey, this is outrageous, especially in the land of the free or is that the land of the 9-5 slaves of the New World Order of the Antichrist? Ummm, looks like martial law here we come!!
Yours in the battle for planet earth,
Rev Dr Anthony G. Pike (UK)
Cosmic Research Foundation
Markapur, A.P. 523316, India
E-Mail  cosmicrf@hotmail.com
Tel  91-8596-2243xx/9959-684635
Date      26th April 2015

From: ron pandolfi
To: cosmicrf@hotmail.com
Subject: Dan Smith Arrested!
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 21:15:55 -0400

St Anthony, Dan Smith faces criminal charges for entering an evangelical church with intent to ask questions. Police were called after he attempted to raise some questions during a class entitled In Search of Answers. When they arrived, Dan was alone in a prayer room deeply in prayer. The police handcuffed Dan and hauled him down to the station. Please join in supporting Dan's right to ask questions. Thanks, Ron

R&A called on their way to a local college.  Aliyah reminded me of the question that Kashmir had asked last week....... How do we wake people up from this long dream?  We have no idea where this came from.  

I should probably excuse the Princess from her offer to testify at my trial.  It would be unfair to pressure her to get caught up in this tug of war between me and Ron.  

And still there is no serious counter-offer to my possible contempt of court charge, if I refuse to pay a fine or abide by a probation.  

The longer this drags on, the more does this case seem to be a contest between Ron and me, with the church being the relatively innocent bystander, caught, as is Aliyah, in the cross-fire.  

But what can he do?  Can he rescind what he has said about an apocalyptic deadline?  How could he actually do this without also rescinding on our 23 year liaison?  What is the judge going to think about this alleged liaison?  Just another part of my insanity?  Might we attempt to have my 'halucination' subpoenaed, but on what grounds?  Our liaison would not be specifically relevant to the tresspassing charge..... only to an insanity plea or charge.  


2:40---------

Ron is saying it is likely that the Officer and/or the pastor will not show up at the trial, therefore the there will be a deferred judgement
and there will be no fine for me not to pay. I could even go back to GFC, and we could start all over again. I think I might start with another church, however.



(cont.)

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Post by Cyrellys on Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:27 pm

Oh Dan! If the judge were truly wise he/she would recognize ideological infighting and tell all of you to go back to your squabbling and stay the hell out of her courtroom.

At this late date a human to human disclosure which is nothing more than a 'digestible' narrative that serves more the system inhabitants than it does the people is probably not going to put much of a dent in the psychology of the world which is quite fed up with the lies and machinations where it isn't outright twisted up in some other tangent equally destructive to any constructive address of the situational landscape.

The civil war that is expected prior to the vectors full manifestation is probably at this point unavoidable. Even I would not be able to head off all of the players at this moment, IMO. And I'm not certain after all the conduct on the part of the system that I even care to intervene. Never thought I'd say that one


_________________

"This is an indeterminite problem. How shall I solve it? Pessimistically? Or optimistically? Or a range of probabilities expressed as a curve, or several curves?..........Well.....we're Loonies. Loonies bet. Hell, we have to! They shipped us up and bet us we couldn't stay alive. We fooled 'em. We'll fool 'em again!" Robert Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.



Rue she said Protection
Rooster's Crow Confusion
One thing else to end the deed --
A dog with no Illusion.

~ Walter Wangerin Jr., Book of the Dun Cow
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Post by Cyrellys on Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:43 am

Dan wrote:R&A called on their way to a local college.  Aliyah reminded me of the question that Kashmir had asked last week....... How do we wake people up from this long dream?  We have no idea where this came from.  

It is interesting that she (Kashmir) picks up on a theme running viral within the collective consciousness at this moment.  How to wake the people is nearly a 10 million dollar question.

What is equally strange is that the theme is viral in the liberty community.  That's just a little bit removed I suspect from the circles you are all running in.

It is surprising what she is picking up, not that she is.  It is useful to know the message is reverberating enough to register in even the more remote groups.

If the tin bucket isn't ringing in vibration like a bell, we're not doing our job, hmmm?


_________________

"This is an indeterminite problem. How shall I solve it? Pessimistically? Or optimistically? Or a range of probabilities expressed as a curve, or several curves?..........Well.....we're Loonies. Loonies bet. Hell, we have to! They shipped us up and bet us we couldn't stay alive. We fooled 'em. We'll fool 'em again!" Robert Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.



Rue she said Protection
Rooster's Crow Confusion
One thing else to end the deed --
A dog with no Illusion.

~ Walter Wangerin Jr., Book of the Dun Cow
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Post by dan on Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:21 am

Cy,

Thank you for your understanding.  I probably will not be able to post tomorrow, and, on Wednesday, I'll either be in jail or headed to NYC.

My Exhibit A will be the diagram that I posted here, on OM, two days before my arrest at GFC/SfA.  Yes, the previous Sunday I had banged my fist on a table, in front of two witnesses.  If that is a crime, the police should have been called then, not a week later.  

A week later, I had color copies of the diagram that I had posted here.  My intent was to hand these out at the SfA meeting.  


10am----------

The following email exchange dates back to several days.....
From: Dan
Date: April 25, 2015 at 3:35:28 PM EDT
To: Ron
Cc: Sam, Princess Aliyah, Jane L, Bill L, Paul
Subject: Fwd: Defending Dan [memorandum on relevant law & some facts as Ron understands them]

Ok, I guess I just have to bring my own wine.

Begin forwarded message:

From: Jane L
Date: April 25, 2015 at 2:33:59 PM EDT
To: Dan
Subject: Re: Defending Dan [memorandum on relevant law & some facts as Ron understands them]

FYI. They do not serve wine in jail but they guarantee lots of offensive sex. Jane

Sent from my iPhone

On 25 Apr 2015, at 11:50, Dan Smith wrote:

Nah, I'm just so cheap, I don't like to pay fines........

http://openmindsforum.forumotion.com/t175p960-hello-cy-omf-ii-part-2#6101 .


On Apr 25, 2015, at 10:27 AM, Ron wrote:

Hi Sam,

We spent some time with Dan yesterday, and he expressed a desire that we not share with Jane the experience on the ship. We also discussed likely scenarios on Tuesday. All end well for Dan if he dresses appropriately and keeps relatively quiet. All end poorly for Dan if he arrives with crown of thorns bearing cross and screaming "the end is coming."

Thanks,

Ron

On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 7:49 PM, Sam wrote:
Ron,

Thanks for the clarifications.

I hope you are aware that Dan has been telling people ever since Jan. 11 that you encouraged him to enter the church and that that is one reason he had you on his speakerphone when he did enter. So, Dan has suffered from some combination of misunderstanding and/or mis-remembering your first advice before he entered the church on Jan. 11, i.e., the "I encouraged him not to enter the church."

Do you want me to send a copy of this to Jane Loving? She has, of course, heard only Dan's recollection.

Thanks again.

Sam


--- ronald.p.... wrote:

From: Ronald
To: Sam
Subject: Re: Defending Dan [memorandum on relevant law & some facts as Ron understands them]
Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 00:26:24 -0400


Hi Sam,

I encouraged him not to enter the church that Jan 11, but Dan refused my guidance. Given that he would not alter his plans, I suggested he remain polite, stating only that he was entering the Church as a member for Sunday worship. At the very least he acted accordingly. Having read some of the e-mail exchanges leading up to the Jan 11 event, it was clear that Dan was being set up by one of the members of the "in search of answers" group. Over and over again the member reported to the Church elders that Dan was being disruptive. These were subjective claims, with Dan protesting against the form, function, and substance of the meetings. With so much attention on his entrance on Jan 11, I advised that he keep particularly quiet and peaceful. Fortunately he did that day. And fortunately the e-mail granting him access to the Church was sent after any prior events during which he was not so quiet or peaceful.

I am sure you are aware that Dan occasionally acts outside the bounds of reason. During our last vacation with Dan aboard the Carnival Pride, Dan engaged several members of the ship's security force in punching, kicking, drink throwing, and shouting. At 2:00 AM Aliyah and I received a call to meet with ship's security about Dan. Both of us were suffering from a bad stomach virus, but we managed to stagger up to the top deck where we found Dan being held at bay by seven members of the ship's security force. All had torn shits and shoe marks on their uniforms from the encounter. Dan was detained for the duration of the cruise and barred from ever again cruising on Carnival or any associated cruise line.

Giving Dan guidance is tricky business. Aliyah and I listened in to the conversations Dan had after entering the Church on Jan 11 to be certain that Dan acted accordingly. In this case he did.

Thanks,

Ron


On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Sam wrote:

Ron,

As Dan told you by phone today, his criminal defense attorney in this matter, Jane L...., would like you to call her to determine what testimony you might be able to provide, if this case goes to trial. This is because she now understands that via Dan's cell phone in speakerphone mode, you were able to listen to what people said to Dan and what he said to them during the entire time he was in the Grace Fellowship Church on Jan. 11, until the moment the police took his cell phone from him.

Mrs. L.....'s tel. is 410 xxxx Office and 410 xxxx Residence.

I am also sending her a CC: of this, so that she has your suggestions. You can further explain them to her by phone.

Your suggestions make it apparent why you so strongly encouraged Dan to enter the church that Jan. 11 and not leave despite his receiving requests to do so.

I will be interested to someday discover from where you obtained these suggestions, since you are not a lawyer specializing in these kinds of matters which include not only criminal law but civil liberties law. And I will be asking Jane for her comments after this matter is settled.

Very best wishes.

Sam

--- ronald.p..... wrote:

From: Ronald
To: Sam
Cc: Princess Aliyah, Dan Smith
Subject: Defending Dan
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2015 21:18:03 -0400

Hi Sam,

Great that you are standing by Dan in defense of his trespass charges. Also great that Dan is taking a stand for his innocence.

There are some basic ways to defend against criminal trespass charges including:

Consent -- if someone gave consent to access the premises, and that someone could reasonably be perceived as having authority to grant consent.

Dan was given consent to enter the Church, in writing, by an official of the Church, just days before the event. Dan never received a revocation of that consent; and Dan had no reason to perceive the request to leave the Church as a formal revocation of that consent. Legal precedence is well established that with conflicting statements granting and denying access, trespass has not occurred. The Police Officer who arrested Dan was not aware that Dan had received written consent to enter the Church.

Establishment is open to the public
The Church claims it is open to the public. Revocation of public access to Dan would have to be based on specific legal grounds, not the whim of one Church official. Statements made to the arresting Police Officer that Dan had caused a disturbance were false and malicious. Dan entered the Church through the main door quietly and proceeded to participate in Church services open to the public. The arresting Police Officer encountered Dan sitting quietly praying in a public room designated for public prayer.

Lack of intent to commit a crime

Criminal charges of trespass are serious and generally require evidence of intent to commit a crime. Dan entered the Church with intent to pray, hardly a crime in a Church open to the public.

Improper posting

Clear posting of rules is required for barring entrance to an establishment open to the public, and the rules must be legal. The Church has no such rules on its website or in its public documents. Decisions by Church officials to consent or deny Dan access to the Church were capricious and unsupported.


There are more ways to defend against criminal trespass charges, but I think this set could be used as the basis for a defense strategy. I also hope that Dan will file a case against the Church for the false and malicious statements made to the arresting Police Officer. The manner in which the statements were made indicates this is well established (illegal) tool used by Church officials to (illegally) control access to this "public" facility. Dan could do a lot of good for the Community by putting a stop to this discriminatory practice.

Thanks,

Ron




(cont.)

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Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2 - Page 39 Empty Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by dan on Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:37 am

There are two serious misstatements by Ron in his post to Sam dated Wed, 22 Apr 2015 00:26:24 -0400.......  

1.)  "I encouraged him not to enter the church that Jan 11, but Dan refused my guidance."

2.)  "During our last vacation with Dan aboard the Carnival Pride, Dan engaged several members of the ship's security force in punching, kicking, drink throwing, and shouting. At 2:00 AM Aliyah and I received a call to meet with ship's security about Dan."  

#1 does not stand up, even within the limited context that Ron presents.  

#2 is virtually comedic in its meticulous disengagement with the truth.  

So what is going on here........?  

Ron has done everything but beg me not to go to jail.  But, by stating #2, is he not actually sending me a message that I not pay attention, even to his personal communications to me, when it comes to matters of possibly grave import.  Hey, just forget anything he might say in public!  

According to Ron, we are coming down to the crunch.  

IMHO, what's really going on here is that Ron is begging to be investigated.  He has been investigated on several previous occasions, but not in a public venue.  I am only offering to expedite that eventuality.  

As I have stated on previous occasions, Ron has often claimed to be untouchable.  That is a good thing, but..... how can we make it easier for him to stop blaspheming the Spirit of Truth, if you see what mean?   


The question before us is whether my time, in the next few weeks, would be more productively spent in jail or on a cruise with the Pandolfi's.  I have put this question directly to Ron, and he has not yet provided me with a clear answer.  If in doubt, I have to go with my gut feeling that Ron is actually encouraging me to go to jail.  He is even, as indicated above, provoking me to take the fall, possibly in oder to bring attention to the urgency of our situation.  If I don't take this last desperate gambit, then, in good conscience, he would have no recourse but to violate his security oath wrt matters pertaining to national and global security.  


11:08 edt-----------

5' incoming call from Ron.......

Usually when he calls, it is from his car, and this seemed to be no exception.  We might presume that when he is not in his car, he is in a secure facility where use of cell phones is not allowed.  There was at least one other person in the automobile with him who was making comments and sometimes chuckling.  

Allow me to try to reconstruct the gist of the conversation......

R: I'm setting up an office pool wrt the numbers of days you will spend in jail.  In that regard, he wishes to solicit inside information from me.  

D:  Provding inside information may be a crime.  Are you asking me to commit a crime?

R:  No.  Providing insider information is a crime only where money is involved.  There will be no money involved in this pool.  The medium of exchange will be more important(?) than money.  

D:  Ok, then shoot......

R:  Will you be pleading guilty?  If you do plead guilty, there would be no reason for the Princess to come.

D:  No, I will not plead guilty.  

R:  In that case I will be sending out a memo suggesting that other people show up at your trial.

D:  I will try to provide popcorn, but it will have to be outside of the courtroom.  Inside, it might be construed as a contempt of court.  

R:  I thought it was strange that your atty mentioned that wine would not be served in jail.  If you go to jail, I will provide you with potting soil and grape seeds so that within five years you will be able to make your own wine.  


Well, some of these 'quotes' are a paraphrase of a longer, back and forth exchange.  

Need I say more?  Case closed?  What more could I possibly say?  


12:50----------

I'll take my own pool..... are we gonna make it, in under the, now, 15 month deadline?

And do I have inside information, in this regard?

I don't know. I may still not have a need to know about the exact nature of my information. In fact, I think it has been well established that I operate most efficiently and effectively under the influence of naivete, and <~0.05%. Yes?

In that case, yes, I remain optimistic that, despite all appearances, we do remain in good hands. Cancer or Chrysalis? I would take a pool on the latter hypothesis, i.e. the BPWH/SWH/CTC/(4M/K/SoT/X2) hypothesis. Any takers?



(cont.)

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Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2 - Page 39 Empty Re: Hello, Cy, OMF II - Part 2

Post by dan on Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:15 pm

From: Dan
Date: April 27, 2015 at 5:09:26 PM EDT
To: Ron
Cc: Princess Aliyah, Paul, Bill L., Caryn, Cyrellys, Throop

Subject: My soon to be daughter may be in trouble in the riots in Baltimore

Please call me....!

Then.......

There are riots in Baltimore......

4:57edt--------

4' incoming call from Ron........

Not to worry, my prospective daughter will be safe, and just call the Princess if there is an immediate emergency.


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