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Where did all the Open Minds Forum members go?

Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:29 pm by Admin

With Open Minds Forum restored now for almost half a year at it's new location with we can now turn to look at reaching out to OMF's original members who have not yet returned home. OMF's original membership was over 6,000 members strong, prior to the proboards suspension, according to the rolls of the time. We can probably safely assume that some of those accounts were unidentified socks. If we were to assume a reasonable guess of maybe as many as 30% possible sock accounts then that would leave potentially somewhere between 4800 to 4900 possible real members to locate. That is still a substantial number of people.

Who were all these people? Some were average individuals with common interests in ufology, exopolitics, globalism, corruption, earthchanges, science and technology, and a variety of other interests. Some just enjoyed being part of a vibrant and unusually interesting community. Others were representative of various insider groups participating in observation and outreach projects, while still others were bonafide intelligence community personnel. All with stake in the hunt for truth in one fashion or another. Some in support of truth, and communication. Others seeking real disclosure and forms of proof. And others highly skeptical of anything or limited subjects. The smallest division of membership being wholly anti-disclosure oriented.

So where did these members vanish to? They had many options. There are almost innumerable other forums out there on the topics of UFO's or Exopolitics, the Unexplained, and Conspiracy Theory. Did they disappear into the world-wide network of forum inhabitants? Did some go find new homes on chatrooms or individual blogs? Did they participate in ufo conventions or other public events and gatherings? How about those who represented groups in special access? Or IC and military observers? Those with academic affiliations? Where did they all go and what would be the best way to reach out and extend an invitation to return?

And what constitutes a situation deserving of their time and participation? Is the archive enough? How exactly do people within the paradigm most desire to define a community? Is it amenities, humanity or simply population size for exposure? Most of the special guests have been emailed and have expressed that population size for exposure is what most motivates them. But not all. Long-time member Dan Smith has other priorities and values motivating his participation. Should this open opportunities for unattached junior guests who have experience and dialog to contribute to the world? How best to make use of OMF's time, experience and resources?

Many skeptics would like to see the historical guardian of discourse opportunity to just up and disappear; go into permanent stasis. They think that not everyone has a right to speak about their experiences and if there is no proof involved then there can philosophically be no value to discourse. I personally would respectfully disagree with them. Discourse has always been the prelude to meaningful relationships and meaningful mutual relationships have always been the prelude to exchanges of proof. In a contentious social environment with regards to communication vs disclosure how do we best re-establish a haven for those preludes? Is it only the "if we build it they will come" answer? Well considering OMF has been largely fully functional over the last four or five months this line of reasoning is not necessarily true. So what would be the best way re-establish this? Your suggestions are sought. Please comment.

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Uncommon Thoughts on Common Things - Cyrellys


Posts : 1596
Join date : 2012-04-25
Age : 48
Location : Montana

Uncommon Thoughts on Common Things - Cyrellys

Post by Cyrellys


Do you Bit-Mine?

>>>>  Come Mine with Me at BitDigger!  <<<<<

Last edited by Cyrellys on Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:23 pm; edited 48 times in total


"This is an indeterminite problem. How shall I solve it? Pessimistically? Or optimistically? Or a range of probabilities expressed as a curve, or several curves?..........Well.....we're Loonies. Loonies bet. Hell, we have to! They shipped us up and bet us we couldn't stay alive. We fooled 'em. We'll fool 'em again!" Robert Heinlein, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress.

Rue she said Protection
Rooster's Crow Confusion
One thing else to end the deed --
A dog with no Illusion.

~ Walter Wangerin Jr., Book of the Dun Cow
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Post on Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:54 am by Cyrellys

What is a communicator, be they sanctioned or whistleblower, but a modern Bard? What is the Guest Cup and what is Hospitality?

Cead Mile Failte!
A thousand Welcomes!

Lyrics Excerpt;

Come and be welcome, O rare tale-teller
With stories of wonder you wisely recall
Now tell of the heroes who dwell in our history
For tales that are true are the best of them all

Come and be welcome, wherever you hail from
Share all the secrets and joys of your art
For every new voice that joins in the chorus
Can uplift the spirit and cheer the heart

Come from the forest and sit 'round the fire
Come from the fields and enter our hall
Come drink from the guest-cup
Come join in our circle
Come and be welcome ye bards one and all

Irish Hospitality by Brighid O’Sullivan
Posted on September 21, 2012
Bunratty Castle/ County Clare

The toy, green, double Decker bus on my desk have the Irish words, Cead Mile Failte written across it which means One Hundred Thousand Welcomes. It’s how I feel every time I travel to Ireland. I love that bus!

Ever wonder why the Irish are considered one of the friendliest people on the planet? Talk to any American who has traveled there or who have Irish relatives, and see what they tell you about it. Comments I’ve heard are: “they leave their doors open, they get upset if they know you are in the neighborhood and didn’t stop by for tea, if you don’t initiate a conversation while visiting a pub you are considered rude. I can ‘t get in the last word, everyone knows his neighbors, stop anywhere for directions and you may get invited in for dinner, the bed and breakfast locals greet us with tea and scones and those flight attendants never stop serving us food!”

In ancient Celtic times, Brehon law mandated hospitality in Ireland and for good reason. It encouraged trade and travel and made alliances between tribes. Everyone, no matter what their social standing was expected to take in a stranger at any time of day or night They were required to provide a bed, nourishment, and sometimes entertainment, never asking for payment in return. It was considered a privilege and an honor to receive guests and wealth was determined by what one gave, not what one owned.The only people exempt from this law were young children, the very old, and the sick.

Once a traveler was accepted into someone’s household they were protected from any violence or quarrels too. The Irish seemed to have been a trusting lot,. In later history this would prove to be one of their frailties and an easy way for their enemies such as the Normans, Vikings or English to gain control but that’s another story.

In my novel, The Sun Palace, which takes place in 6th century Ireland, the heroine visits a hospitality house called a bruidean. as she travels from what is now West Meath to Donegal to meet the father she never knew.

Bruideans were public houses of welcome, usually placed at major intersections or crossroads all over Ireland. A door was left open facing each road, torches lighting the way, and an appointed official called a Briugu or brughaid stood in the doorway, ready to welcome any weary traveler. These greeters were of high social standing and had many of the same privileges as a king. They owned large plots of land (actually the land would have been in trust) and enough cattle and crops which kept the bruidean supplied at all times. There were bruideans in Ireland up until the sixteenth century.

Brehon law had specific rules as to what a bruigu was supposed to serve. For example, three uncooked meats and three cooked meats had to be stocked at all times, fattened livestock read to be slaughtered, and a full kettle boiled at the hearth side.

And what would happen if a person was turned away, not fed, not entertained, treated with disrespect? The bards would recite a satire naming the offending person and extreme disgrace would follow. Early manuscripts tell of King Bres who received a humiliating satire that ruined his political career and forced him to flee for his life. Another example is the story of Grace O’Malley, the pirate queen. One day, having landed with her crew on the shores near Dublin, Grace approached Howth Castle for lodging and refreshment. The castle gates were locked and she was told to go away. She was so furious that she kidnapped the son of Christopher St.Lawrence, the lord of Howth Castle who pleaded for his return and offered a hefty ransom which Grace refused, In fact it probably made her more angry. She only returned him when St. Lawrence apologized and agreed to keep his door open to strangers for ever more. To this day Howth Castle is never locked.


From Wikipedia on Celtic Law:

The Brehon Laws governed everyday life and politics in Ireland until the Norman invasion of 1171 (the word "Brehon" is an Anglicisation of breitheamh (earlier brithem), the Irish word for a judge). The laws were written in the Old Irish period (ca. 600–900 AD) and probably reflect the traditional laws of pre-Christian Ireland.

Common features of these codes include an emphasis on the payment of compensation for a crime to the victim or the victim's kin rather than on punishment by the ruler. In other words, all law was tort law, with no "victimless" crimes or crimes against the State.

Features of hospitality practices ranged from hearth gatherings to presentation of the Guest Cup to even Komhaltos or Comhaltai which is essentially fosterage and applies to practices establishing artificial kinship utilizing most commonly children but also at times adults or prisoners of war.

From Wikipedia on Celtic Law, "Fosterage networks, establishing artificial kinship and thus political and information exchange networks also are a good explanation for the spread of some aspects of ‘Celtic’ material culture..."

Rev. Michael McGuinness wrote:In my previous article, the first in a continuing exploration of characteristic values found in the Gaelic mythological tradition, I highlighted the idea that our Ancestors prized balance as a foundation for successful living.


Ceisiwr Serith, the Indo-European Reconstructionist, has written extensively of the *ghosti principle, a proto-IE term that is at the root of our English words for both guest and host. *Ghosti describes an IE concept of ritual as a shared meal with the Gods, still seen today not only in our FoDLA rituals but also in the daily ritual ceremonies of Hindu householders and the Eucharistic sacrifice of the Catholic Mass.

In this way of thinking, ritual constitutes an exchange of offerings and blessings that creates a mutually beneficial relationship between the Gods and the People, similar to the exchange of services and obligations between the members of society. Thus, hospitality was seen both as the glue which bound civilization together, and also the process that connected the human with the divine.

The Brehon Laws, the native legal code of the Irish, passed on orally from ancient times and written down during the transition to Christianity, made hospitality a national institution. According to Irish historian P.W. Joyce in A Smaller Social History of Ireland, a chieftain was obligated to entertain any guest without questioning his name or business, and was forbidden to harm him in any way.

The Brehon Laws also directed that a brughfer (brugh-hostel or house; fer-man) be installed in every kingdom in Ireland. The brughfer was a public official charged with maintaining a guest house for travelers (free of charge), and who was required to constantly keep a cauldron full of boiling meat for guests on a perpetually lit kitchen fire.

In Gods and Fighting Men, Lady Augusta Gregory relates several old tales that demonstrate the importance of hospitality to the ancient Irish. Hospitality (or the lack thereof) was one of the major causes of the Second Battle of Moytura, in which the Tuatha De Danann rebelled against the tyranny of Bres (the king at that time) and the Fomorians...


Cormac’s tale (perhaps appropriately, if we remember his Instructions in my previous article) seems to suggest a more balanced idea of generosity than Oisin’s description of Fionn. We might infer from it that hospitality consists neither in holding too tightly to money or possessions which are subject to the vagaries of fortune (thatching your roof with feathers) nor in giving everything away to others (trying to feed an all-consuming fire).


just as hospitality was sacred to our Ancestors, it is also, for members of FoDLA, an essential element of our practice as one of our Three Commitments (the others being the commitments to study and to piety). How can we make that commitment to hospitality a greater part of our lives?

For myself, these tales remind me that the concept of hospitality challenges me to be an active participant in improving my own life, and, when appropriate, the lives of others...


Contact Insiders, the System, and the General Population: Whether we acknowledge it or not...and whether we participate in exchange between each others respective worlds or not, we are as one bound to each other to some degree in a kind of marriage. Definitions of modern marriage are not expressive enough to give a good description of this marriage. I just happened to flip back to a previous posting by Brighid O'Sullivan on the Celtic Thoughts site and ran across precisely what I was considering...the part on the marriage contract types is what is apropos here:

Brighid O' Sullivan wrote:Marriage Customs of the Ancient Irish
Posted on August 25, 2012
Marriage Customs of the Ancient Irish

Before Christianity was prevalent in Ireland, the country was very liberal in her view of sex and marriage with everything being governed by Brehon Law: the ancient laws of Ireland.

In medieval times, polygamy was an accepted practice though it is not clear from the texts how common that seemed to be. It may have been more common with the upper classes, for a husband would need to have considerable wealth to take care of all of his wives or at the very least the children from those unions.

Early on, women had considerable rights too; rights that would be stripped from them later by the Catholic Church. If the couple divorced, both parties kept whatever possessions they brought into the marriage, and either party could initiate that divorce. A fashionable marriage of the time was the hand-fast marriage that lasted for one year and a day, a sort of trial marriage. If either party did not want to stay together, the day after their first anniversary they could be released from their vow. This would all change by the late sixteenth century, with the death of Queen Elizabeth I, the completed Reformation and surrender of the last Gaelic chieftains. Replacing Brehon law with Canon law was one of the first things the English did to gain control over the Irish.


In my novel ‘The Sun Palace’ which takes place in 6th Century Ireland, a woman discovers that her husband fathered another woman’s child. She is angry of course, but not for reasons one might expect. Her misplaced anger with her husband is because he did not ask her permission to take another wife. Having sex with a woman constituted a type of marriage, specifically a marriage of the fifth degree. Though taking another wife was acceptable, the husband was required to get his first wife’s permission. In one of the oldest surviving law texts, Crith Gablach states, “To his wife belongs the right to be consulted on all every subject.”

Here’s a list of Marriage Contracts

A 1st degree marriage is a union between a man and woman of equal rank and property.

A 2nd degree marriage is when the woman has less property than the man.

A 3rd degree marriage is when the man has less property than the woman.

A 4th degree marriage is when there is no property involved, though the children’s rights are safeguarded.

A 5th degree marriage is when two people share their bodies but live under separate roofs.

A 6th degree marriage is when an enemies’ wife is abducted. The marriage is only valid as long as the man can keep the woman with him.

A 7th degree marriage is called a soldier’s marriage and is temporary.

An 8th degree marriage is when a man seduces a woman through lying or deception. In this case she is entitled to a divorce.

A 9th degree union is one by rape.

A 10th degree union is between insane people.

Marriage was a contract and each degree of marriage had specific guidelines which predetermined everything in the case of divorce.

What degree of a marriage do we have as a collective between us? Would it surprise anyone to consider that the truth is, each third of our party would define it as a different degree, none marking it the same?

Being that our world is not all operating on the same page, who might be unbiased enough to arbitrate such a problem?

Oh my.


Post on Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:51 pm by Cyrellys

The broad "beamed" target of John P. Holdren is back in the news depopulation.

Pondering the breadth of this thinking...Hey, William Voght, since 1948 how far do you suppose it has spread? I know this question has been asked before, and I know the answer came back Agenda 21.

States divert foreclosure prevention money to demolitions
The Treasury Department has changed the rules on the Hardest Hit Fund, a program meant to help people hit by the housing crisis stay in their homes, allowing states to use some money from the $7.6 billion foreclosure prevention program to demolish homes instead.

hmmm. yeah.

Post on Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:17 pm by Cyrellys

Let's see...infowars reported a few days ago of military officer leaking black ops no signature move of nukes north from Florida (or was that Texas?) to south carolina... wrote:by Anthony Gucciardi

Senator Lindsay Graham has warned South Carolinians about the threat of a ‘terrorist nuclear attack’ on the same day that our exclusive high level military intel revealed to us that nuclear warheads were being shipped to South Carolina from a major Texas airforce base under an ‘off the record’ black ops transfer.

lindsay-graham-nuke-south-carolinaFound in the CBS report entitled ‘Graham: Nukes In Hands Of Terrorists Could Result In Bomb Coming To Charleston Harbor’, the report details Graham’s warning that a lack of military action in Syria could result in a nuclear ‘bombing’ in Charleston, South Carolina — the very destination of the black ops nuclear transfer. The CBS report reads:

“He [Graham] says if there is no U.S. response [to Syria], Iran will not believe America’s resolve to block Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Graham also says those nuclear weapons in the hands of terrorists could result in a bomb coming to Charleston Harbor.”

Graham is quite literally saying that if we do not launch a war with Syria, South Carolina may be nuked. And this ultimately reeks of yet another false flag being orchestrated by the United States government in order to send us into war, or at the very least a threat. Except this time, we’re talking about nuclear weapons. Amazingly, we were the first to get intel on this from our credible and extremely high level military source, who told us the following:

“Dyess is beginning to move out nuclear war heads today. I got a tap from DERMO earlier. He said it was the first time they have been even acknowledged since being put there in the 80′s. No signature was required for transfer… There was no directive. He said that Dyess Commander was on site to give authority to release. No one knew where they were going really, but the truck driver said to take them to South Carolina and another pick up will take them from there.”

This was sent to us before the Graham report came out warning about the nuclear attack on South Carolina, and coincides exactly with what Graham is saying. I am deeply concerned by these findings, and ask everyone to spread the word on this information immediately. Whether or not Graham is receiving intel from higher ups and believes in a legitimate terror attack on the horizon is unknown, but the reality here is that we have intelligence that has linked the unsigned transfer of nuclear warheads to this exact location.

Here is the video report we did on Tuesday regarding the missing nuclear warheads:

Now, we need answers.

The entire event is eerily similar to the unsigned nuke transfer that is now known as the ’2007 United States Air Force nuclear weapons incident’, in which nuclear warheads went ‘missing’ from Minot Air Force Base and Barksdale Air Force Base back in August of 2007. The Minot event, however, was major national news and was even covered by the mainstream media extensively. Disturbingly, however, numerous individuals from the base began dying like flies and committing suicide after the event — and that’s even when it was in the mainstream.

Hopefully, this entire thing will amount to nothing and pass by without any form of ‘terror’ attack. Hopefully the attendee during the speech who told the US News publication that Graham’s speech was ‘absolute fear mongering’ is right. Unfortunately, the military source revealing this information is extremely accurate and is absolutely certain that a black ops nuclear transfer did indeed take place. And what’s more concerning is the fact that we have not heard from the source in quite some time.

We are risking our lives bringing you this report on the high level intel and connecting the dots here to what Lindsay is saying. You won’t hear about this in the mega media unless we force them to cover it, and it’s up to us to get this out there. For the first time, we may be able to utilize this high level intelligence to get answers and stop a potential attack.

The post Senator Warns of Nuke Strike on S. Carolina After Missing Nuke Report appeared first on Storyleak.


*Read up this thread to see my posts a few days ago on the matter.

Post on Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:48 pm by Cyrellys

Intelligence Professionals: Assad Not Responsible for Chemical Weapons Attack
The Alex Jones Channel Alex Jones Show podcast Prison Planet TV Twitter Alex Jones' Facebook Infowars store
Ray McGovern
War Is A
September 7, 2013
Editor Note: Despite the Obama administration’s supposedly “high confidence” regarding Syrian government guilt over the Aug. 21 chemical attack near Damascus, a dozen former U.S. military and intelligence officials are telling President Obama that they are picking up information that undercuts the Official Story.
Credit: Fabio Rodrigues Pozzebom via Wikimedia Commons
Credit: Fabio Rodrigues Pozzebom via Wikimedia Commons
FROM: Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity (VIPS)
SUBJECT: Is Syria a Trap?
Precedence: IMMEDIATE
We regret to inform you that some of our former co-workers are telling us, categorically, that contrary to the claims of your administration, the most reliable intelligence shows that Bashar al-Assad was NOT responsible for the chemical incident that killed and injured Syrian civilians on August 21, and that British intelligence officials also know this. In writing this brief report, we choose to assume that you have not been fully informed because your advisers decided to afford you the opportunity for what is commonly known as “plausible denial.”
We have been down this road before – with President George W. Bush, to whom we addressed our first VIPS memorandum immediately after Colin Powell’s Feb. 5, 2003 U.N. speech, in which he peddled fraudulent “intelligence” to support attacking Iraq. Then, also, we chose to give President Bush the benefit of the doubt, thinking he was being misled – or, at the least, very poorly advised.
Secretary of State John Kerry departs for a Sept. 6 trip to Europe where he plans to meet with officials to discuss the Syrian crisis and other issues. (State Department photo)
The fraudulent nature of Powell’s speech was a no-brainer. And so, that very afternoon we strongly urged your predecessor to “widen the discussion beyond … the circle of those advisers clearly bent on a war for which we see no compelling reason and from which we believe the unintended consequences are likely to be catastrophic.” We offer you the same advice today.
Our sources confirm that a chemical incident of some sort did cause fatalities and injuries on August 21 in a suburb of Damascus. They insist, however, that the incident was not the result of an attack by the Syrian Army using military-grade chemical weapons from its arsenal. That is the most salient fact, according to CIA officers working on the Syria issue. They tell us that CIA Director John Brennan is perpetrating a pre-Iraq-War-type fraud on members of Congress, the media, the public – and perhaps even you.
We have observed John Brennan closely over recent years and, sadly, we find what our former colleagues are now telling us easy to believe. Sadder still, this goes in spades for those of us who have worked with him personally; we give him zero credence. And that goes, as well, for his titular boss, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, who has admitted he gave “clearly erroneous” sworn testimony to Congress denying NSA eavesdropping on Americans.
Intelligence Summary or Political Ploy?
That Secretary of State John Kerry would invoke Clapper’s name this week in Congressional testimony, in an apparent attempt to enhance the credibility of the four-page “Government Assessment” strikes us as odd. The more so, since it was, for some unexplained reason, not Clapper but the White House that released the “assessment.”
This is not a fine point. We know how these things are done. Although the “Government Assessment” is being sold to the media as an “intelligence summary,” it is a political, not an intelligence document. The drafters, massagers, and fixers avoided presenting essential detail. Moreover, they conceded upfront that, though they pinned “high confidence” on the assessment, it still fell “short of confirmation.”
Déjà Fraud: This brings a flashback to the famous Downing Street Minutes of July 23, 2002, on Iraq, The minutes record the Richard Dearlove, then head of British intelligence, reporting to Prime Minister Tony Blair and other senior officials that President Bush had decided to remove Saddam Hussein through military action that would be “justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD.” Dearlove had gotten the word from then-CIA Director George Tenet whom he visited at CIA headquarters on July 20.
The discussion that followed centered on the ephemeral nature of the evidence, prompting Dearlove to explain: “But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy.” We are concerned that this is precisely what has happened with the “intelligence” on Syria.
The Intelligence
There is a growing body of evidence from numerous sources in the Middle East — mostly affiliated with the Syrian opposition and its supporters — providing a strong circumstantial case that the August 21 chemical incident was a pre-planned provocation by the Syrian opposition and its Saudi and Turkish supporters. The aim is reported to have been to create the kind of incident that would bring the United States into the war.
According to some reports, canisters containing chemical agent were brought into a suburb of Damascus, where they were then opened. Some people in the immediate vicinity died; others were injured.
We are unaware of any reliable evidence that a Syrian military rocket capable of carrying a chemical agent was fired into the area. In fact, we are aware of no reliable physical evidence to support the claim that this was a result of a strike by a Syrian military unit with expertise in chemical weapons.
In addition, we have learned that on August 13-14, 2013, Western-sponsored opposition forces in Turkey started advance preparations for a major, irregular military surge. Initial meetings between senior opposition military commanders and Qatari, Turkish and U.S. intelligence officials took place at the converted Turkish military garrison in Antakya, Hatay Province, now used as the command center and headquarters of the Free Syrian Army (FSA) and their foreign sponsors.
Senior opposition commanders who came from Istanbul pre-briefed the regional commanders on an imminent escalation in the fighting due to “a war-changing development,” which, in turn, would lead to a U.S.-led bombing of Syria.
At operations coordinating meetings at Antakya, attended by senior Turkish, Qatari and U.S. intelligence officials as well as senior commanders of the Syrian opposition, the Syrians were told that the bombing would start in a few days. Opposition leaders were ordered to prepare their forces quickly to exploit the U.S. bombing, march into Damascus, and remove the Bashar al-Assad government
The Qatari and Turkish intelligence officials assured the Syrian regional commanders that they would be provided with plenty of weapons for the coming offensive. And they were. A weapons distribution operation unprecedented in scope began in all opposition camps on August 21-23. The weapons were distributed from storehouses controlled by Qatari and Turkish intelligence under the tight supervision of U.S. intelligence officers.
Cui bono?
That the various groups trying to overthrow Syrian President Bashar al-Assad have ample incentive to get the U.S. more deeply involved in support of that effort is clear. Until now, it has not been quite as clear that the Netanyahu government in Israel has equally powerful incentive to get Washington more deeply engaged in yet another war in the area. But with outspoken urging coming from Israel and those Americans who lobby for Israeli interests, this priority Israeli objective is becoming crystal clear.
Reporter Judi Rudoren, writing from Jerusalem in an important article in Friday’s New York Times addresses Israeli motivation in an uncommonly candid way. Her article, titled “Israel Backs Limited Strike Against Syria,” notes that the Israelis have argued, quietly, that the best outcome for Syria’s two-and-a-half-year-old civil war, at least for the moment, is no outcome. Rudoren continues:
“For Jerusalem, the status quo, horrific as it may be from a humanitarian perspective, seems preferable to either a victory by Mr. Assad’s government and his Iranian backers or a strengthening of rebel groups, increasingly dominated by Sunni jihadis.
“‘This is a playoff situation in which you need both teams to lose, but at least you don’t want one to win — we’ll settle for a tie,’ said Alon Pinkas, a former Israeli consul general in New York. ‘Let them both bleed, hemorrhage to death: that’s the strategic thinking here. As long as this lingers, there’s no real threat from Syria.’”
We think this is the way Israel’s current leaders look at the situation in Syria, and that deeper U.S. involvement – albeit, initially, by “limited” military strikes – is likely to ensure that there is no early resolution of the conflict in Syria. The longer Sunni and Shia are at each other’s throats in Syria and in the wider region, the safer Israel calculates that it is.
That Syria’s main ally is Iran, with whom it has a mutual defense treaty, also plays a role in Israeli calculations. Iran’s leaders are not likely to be able to have much military impact in Syria, and Israel can highlight that as an embarrassment for Tehran.
Iran’s Role
Iran can readily be blamed by association and charged with all manner of provocation, real and imagined. Some have seen Israel’s hand in the provenance of the most damaging charges against Assad regarding chemical weapons and our experience suggests to us that such is supremely possible.
Possible also is a false-flag attack by an interested party resulting in the sinking or damaging, say, of one of the five U.S. destroyers now on patrol just west of Syria. Our mainstream media could be counted on to milk that for all it’s worth, and you would find yourself under still more pressure to widen U.S. military involvement in Syria – and perhaps beyond, against Iran.
Iran has joined those who blame the Syrian rebels for the August 21 chemical incident, and has been quick to warn the U.S. not to get more deeply involved. According to the Iranian English-channel Press TV, Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javid Zarif has claimed: “The Syria crisis is a trap set by Zionist pressure groups for [the United States].”
Actually, he may be not far off the mark. But we think your advisers may be chary of entertaining this notion. Thus, we see as our continuing responsibility to try to get word to you so as to ensure that you and other decision makers are given the full picture.
Inevitable Retaliation
We hope your advisers have warned you that retaliation for attacks on Syrian are not a matter of IF, but rather WHERE and WHEN. Retaliation is inevitable. For example, terrorist strikes on U.S. embassies and other installations are likely to make what happened to the U.S. “Mission” in Benghazi on Sept. 11, 2012, look like a minor dust-up by comparison. One of us addressed this key consideration directly a week ago in an article titled “Possible Consequences of a U.S. Military Attack on Syria – Remembering the U.S. Marine Barracks Destruction in Beirut, 1983.”
For the Steering Group, Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity
Thomas Drake, Senior Executive, NSA (former)
Philip Giraldi, CIA, Operations Officer (ret.)
Matthew Hoh, former Capt., USMC, Iraq & Foreign Service Officer, Afghanistan
Larry Johnson, CIA & State Department (ret.)
W. Patrick Lang, Senior Executive and Defense Intelligence Officer, DIA (ret.)
David MacMichael, National Intelligence Council (ret.)
Ray McGovern, former US Army infantry/intelligence officer & CIA analyst (ret.)
Elizabeth Murray, Deputy National Intelligence Officer for Middle East (ret.)
Todd Pierce, US Army Judge Advocate General (ret.)
Sam Provance, former Sgt., US Army, Iraq
Coleen Rowley, Division Council & Special Agent, FBI (ret.)
Ann Wright, Col., US Army (ret); Foreign Service Officer (ret.)
This Memorandum was posted first on
This article was posted: Saturday, September 7, 2013 at 5:35 am

Post on Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:02 pm by pman35

Jake wrote

I haven't put the pieces together yet but they are in no particular order, this may not be all of them but I have come across the boston bombings , the apple device , obama's internet kill switch and  the moving of nukes and order to all military to be in i think its dc for 3 months all this is linked.  so far what i have come up with is this.

Say a incident were to happen , but oh wait its all gone black "apple device" how do we know whats really happened , the current episode of the keystone cops routine could be a test to the real thing, the military order is also important , they could be called to arms should a pretend attack happen. It kinda reminds me on a episode of 24 where nukes were detonated from within us cities and also reminds me on the last die hard movie where a cyber attack was orchestrated.

What we see with our eyes is not really happening but what we read between the lines is the reality.  By the way this is just a thought of what i gather to be maybe happening.

Post on Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:48 pm by Cyrellys

one of the things we have noticed is that these people literally advertise what they're going to do before they do it.  It has been suggested by a number of researchers that at least with the satanic types it may be a social prerequisite to inform the "hunted" what is set to happen to them.  Sort of like some rule of fair play.

So it has been a running knife fight in which internet researchers range the net seeking those messages or the construction of the situation prior to their initiation of the false flag or overt event and then shine a glaring spotlight on it so that the rats scatter and abandon what they had intended.  Many times it works, but sometimes we all miss the boat and something happens.


Just one of the various ways the People are peacefully attempting to marginalize the corruption.  

As you can see, however, the push-shove match is backsliding.  They have more and better resources and equipment.  Their positions, are ones of influence and/or power.  And despite the volume of this opposition to tyranny and corruption, there is a huge time necessity spanning years to become well versed in the documentation and situational awareness.  And most researchers have day jobs.

I don't have any better solution for these issues than recommendations for individuals and groups to do the homework and read, read, read, and compare, compare, compare.  And don't make rash judgments.  Hard to do, I know, especially when you see blatant wrongs, tragedy, and deviancy.  I'm something of a hot head sometimes.  Depends on if someone catches me on a bad hair day, lol.


Post on Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:03 pm by Cyrellys

Epic Internet Quote happened today:  Added Bryan Short: “How appropriate. A million muslims surrounded by 2 million hogs!”
Read more at 

I about choked on my coffee seeing it.  Grin.

Post on Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:20 am by Cyrellys

And interesting read

And insider speaks about our current status and the black/shadow world
- whats been going on at some of these bases in the north and over the last decade, are they working for us or against us?

Quotes -
The military industrial political complex is programmed that its mission is more important than us and we're's core program is programmed to lie and our system is not designed for this...

we're drowning in lies right now...

the Syrian kids that were gassed were kidnapped kids that were put there to be gassed

...stuff about Bengazi...

the public has kept this in check - game plan

cattle prodding to get into a war...

We need to put on our truth detector glasses and see past all the foggy lies...something is truly wrong here and unless the people enmasse say hell no....

we either hang together or hang separately...and we have been put in a position that has been designed for us...if you won't act for yourself then act for your own gotta wake up before its too late.

~ The Hagmann and Hagmann Report.

Post on Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:32 am by Cyrellys

1500 yrds with a mil made weapon....

Steve thought I would send you what Hornady has to say about their 308 Win 168 gr A-MAX. (Side Bar)"The Sierra Match King 168 is a hollow point boat tail bullet. This sniper round does not act like a normal hollow point bullet. In fact Sierra advises they not be used for hunting as they do not mushroom like normal hollow points. SMK 168 HPBT are good for nailing a target behind heavy glass".

The 308 Win 168 gr A-MAX has a ballistic tip which helps the bullet to cut through the air for faster, longer range coupled with high accuracy if properly loaded. Upon impact the red point is forced back into the hollow point cavity causing extreme expansion with severe terminal energy discharge in the target. I load a similar bullet, the Hornady V-Max 60 gr bullet for 223 Remington. The V-max has even greater terminal explosive qualities. Hornady designed these bullets for maximum damage and energy release in the primary target.

The 308 Win 168 gr A-MAX are match grade! (See explanation of MATCH GRADE below). In other words they are very accurate in a Quality Rifle designed for long range shooting. They are also good for KILLING with one shot. A hit with a 308 Win 168 gr A-MAX or 223 Rem 60 gr V-Max above the knees is likely fatal due to extreme tissue damage and bleeding out. Either of these bullets hit you in the shoulder the result will likely be your arm being blown off with death in just a few minutes. Same thing with an upper leg shot!

Based on bullet selection I can say the BP is not planning on taking any prisoners!!! These rounds are usable out to 1000 yards. To get to the 1500 yard mark you need the same bullet in a heavier weight fired out of a 300 Win Mag. The US Military has just adopted the 300 Win Mag with 220 gr bullets for usability at 1500 yards.

Steve this is the type of shooting I do as a hobby. A close friend and I have our own range to play on. The black dot on the same hole group I sent to you a few days ago is 1 inch. I had a self inking rubber stamp made so I could make targets out of paper plate. The 1 inch dot is 1 MOA at 100 yards. All of my primary bullet accuracy test is done at 100 yards. If the rifle likes the bullet and load we move out. At long range you want the bullet to print a round hole which indicates the bullet is still stable. It is like a puzzle with lead and gun powder!

Most state side snipping will be at less than 100 yards in a city or less than 300 yards in wide open. One of these bullets through the mouth and out the back of the head is called a "Light Switch Shot". Your body goes limp with no reflex action such as pulling a trigger. You are DRT - "Dead Right There" with a shot like this. If times get tough and you need to down a cow to eat be sure to use a head shot or you will waste a lot of meat. If you are Nephilim Blood Line and eat people the same head shot rule applies......

I hope this gives the Taxpayer an idea of what their tax dollars are going for!!! These are not bullets for target practice by LEOs.

Sep 10, 2013


Post on Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:06 am by Cyrellys

Surveillence has entered into every aspect of our lives and because we do not make it go away at the source and because we only avoid directly dealing with it, we thus continue to live with it.  Could you imagine if first aid or medicine for Cancer consisted of only slapping on a bandaid, patting the victim on the head and advising they just ignore it was how it were dealt with?

Leaked iPhone 5S Manual Shows Fingerprint Scanning Home Button
Business Insider | As with all leaks, you should be skeptical.

Post on Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:40 pm by Cyrellys

Today's rounds across the net brings in another report on the subject of Russians in the US scoping out children door to door:

Steve my grandson called me, a senior in high school, and heard many homes having Russian men and women saying they are foreign students coming and asking about children. They heard some children had been kidnapped. But after I told him what I knew from your alerts, my oldest grandson 20 yr. said a Russian salesman came to his house this week
looking for his uncles' house which was next door to him, and said they were wanting to know about his daughter and gave her name to my grandson, she is 5yrs. old, then noticed the fenced in play area where his mom use to have daycare and they wanted to know how many children lived there. This is in a rural area, outside of Plainfield, Indiana
where they are coming to homes and asking about children. THEY ALREADY KNOW WHO LIVES THERE AND
WHAT THEIR NAMES ARE!! Linda J. (This is west of Indianapolis)

Sep 11, 2013



Post on Thu Sep 12, 2013 9:09 pm by Cyrellys

Wowsers, today's haul is quite the manege.

Personally, I suspect this is all tied in with the coming martial law scenario. I know that part of THE PLAN is to take the children away from the parents somehow…someway…with the intent of re-educating them into the NWO mindset and agenda. Other alternate news websites like THE COMMON SENSE SHOW with Dave Hodges also points out the evidence that the government is planning to take the children away during national disasters and martial law.

From StormCloudsGathering who has recently been quoted by Ron over on Dan Smith's thread,

Vieira rocks.

Seriously?  Or is that who would take THEM seriously after so many of them voted to hand our rights over to the UN just yesterday? (UN Gun Treaty)

From the Comment Section of "Russian Booksellers" snip Livingston MT
I just wanted to let you know that this is happening in Alabama too. In late July a young man speaking with a heavy accent came to our door in lower AL. He stated he was selling books to help promote better education for children. We found this guy sitting in our yard as we were leaving for an appointment. He would not get out of the car because we have 3 large dogs and they were “on guard” around his car. When we came outside to get in our vehicle all three dogs were sitting by his car and he rolled down his window to speak to us. We called the dogs back and then he got out of the car and asked about our children. I had two teenagers with me taking them to volleyball practice so he knew I had kids. After speaking with him a couple of minutes I told him we were on our way out. We introduced ourselves to each other( first name only) and I asked him where he was from because of his accent. He said the Ukraine. I told him my first name and he said he had spoke with other people in our neighborhood. I live on a road that is 4 miles long and my family members are the only ones that live on this road. He started talking about the lady up the road in the brick house and did not know that she was part of our family. He lied about meeting her and her name. I know this because I spoke with her after I returned home that evening. During our conversation he showed us his notebook with the area roads and houses marked on them. He was lost but he was also selling educational books to help children in school. He followed me out of the drive way as I left not realizing my husband was in the house the whole time. Later that night he came back and tried to get out and come into the house. My husband met him at the door and told him I was not there and that he needed to leave. He tried to walk into the door with my 6 ft 2 husband standing in front of it. Needless to say he did not make it. My husband told him to get off our property and not come back. He also told him it was not safe for him to get out of his car in people’s yards because of the dogs and getting bit by them. My husband also told him that some of these crazy southern people would shoot and ask questions later if he trespassed on their property and told him to be careful whose yards he was stopping in without calling first. We called the police and reported the incident. My mother lives about 17 miles away but in another county. He was reported to police in that county the next day. The police stopped him and checked him out because all of the calls reporting him on private property. The Sheriff came by the next day and reported to us that they had told him to stay out of the “country” areas and sell his books in town for his own safety. So, THIS IS REAL. It is happening in AL, It happened to me and my mother in our rural country areas in AL.

Post on Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:33 am by Cyrellys

American Conservative 2 Conservative picked up my friend Johns latest article and distributed it via email this morning their list:

America Conservative 2 Conservative via
9:12 AM (19 minutes ago)

to me

Images are not displayed. Display images below - Always display images from

NSA Threatened Internet Giants With Treason
by johngalt


" Yahoo CEO Marissa Mayer revealed the extent of harassment that the NSA has engaged in to bully tech companies into revealing American citizen’s private information. Mayer is pushing for the right to publish how many requests they get for personal information from the spy agency. For now, the company is forbidden by law to disclose how much data they provide to the government.

From the Guardian

During an interview at the Techcrunch Disrupt conference in San Francisco, Mayer was asked why tech companies had not simply decided to tell the public more about what the US surveillance industry was up to. “Releasing classified information is treason and you are incarcerated,” she said." URL:

Make your comments HERE:
Laura J Alcorn, National Director

Post on Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:56 pm by Cyrellys

Hi Steve, I've had Russian booksellers at my door twice this week. First
time I didn't get to the door in time but followed him around the country
side for awhile and he only went to homes with kids.
Thursday sept 12th different bookseller at our door my 17yr old son
confronted him .my son told him to leave because we have no trespassing
signs posted in the driveway and on our front door . He told him twice
before he left
I forgot to mention we homeschool.
Later that afternoon they had been at my brother in laws house and my
father and mother in laws home. My brother in law is a police officer.
After the man left my mother in laws house my brother in law got a call
that my father in law and his friend had a Bulgarian bookseller pinned in
waiting on law enforcement to arrive . The bookseller was walking around on
our friends property. When law enforcement arrived ( my brother in law & 2
county sheriffs) they checked his paperwork and it said he worked for a
company out of Southbend Indiana called Advantage. Me and my wife looked on
line but couldn't find it.
They have been in all the surrounding areas for at least a month.
Pendleton law enforcement questioned a female Bulgarian last week about 10
miles west of us.
Thanks for keeping us informed and God Bless.

Matt in Indiana
I just read this morning's alert. Advantage is almost certainly Southwestern Advantage which is part of the Southwestern Company. They focus on door to door book sales. If someone wants to investigate further as to why they are sending foreigners around that is where to start. Perhaps they have purchased lists from a database company that tells them what homes in the area have kids. That information is certainly available for marketing to anyone who wants to buy it.


Sep 13, 2013


I agree with Steve on this (comment at bottom of quote) being Ghosting. And I find it equally telling that the DHS, and all the other acronym agencies who visit this forum to read are seemingly sitting on their thumbs wrt this matter. Is this further evidence of the ghosting being a globalist black op rather than a Russian one? Plausible Deniability involved if you use all slavic employees and hire only ones who are ex-military or look military enough...

Many thoughts. Few answers at this point. Still watching.
Jake Reason

Post on Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:04 pm by Jake Reason

The Russians are not doing what these alarmist's are worried about.  They are nothing more than opportunists trying to make a living in creative ways.

The US government knows ALL about your children.  When they were born, where the Parents lived when they were born, what the parents did for a living and every source of income they might have had.  The US Government KNEW everything about your children.  It is all on public record.  And shared in numerous databases.

The Russian 'sales and collection data' is irrelevant to US data reserves.  US records are miles ahead of any Russian data records.

Last edited by Jake Reason on Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:33 pm; edited 2 times in total

Post on Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:11 pm by Cyrellys

Jake Reason wrote:The Russian Book sellers are likely not more than that, as they report to be - book sellers.  I was the youngest Filter Queen Distributor in the 45 year history of the company.  Believe it or not.   Few know door-to-door Selling as in-depth and intimately as I.  Even though that era of my life was a generation ago, my childhood record has still not been broken.  From 1931 to 2013, I am still the record youngest to learn how to be a Self Employed Self Sufficient Distributor of Direct Sale Door-to-Door.


Does this matter?  No!

Am I special?  No!

So what does this mean?  Anything!?

Yes and NO, it Means NOTHING!

Except the Russians aren't collecting data to harm the US.  Only US goof-balls are collecting info to spin doctor harm of US innocents.


But this doesn't mean anything,  anyway.

So Interview Me!

You will not get another chance like this.


Not sure what to make of your comment.  Sarcasm?


Well I can only say that there have been several ex-military who have spotted them and have come to the conclusion this is a mil op because of the type of individuals doing the work and how they carry out their day per observed military style.  

Maybe you're right and some book sales company I have NEVER heard of as a book connoisseur is hiring nationally across what is it now 10-15 states strictly individuals of slavic ancestry, accent, and on claims of being students, and who all happen to look military in build, type, and behavior?

What are the odds?

No clue...I skipped statistics in High School.

But after a months worth of accounts, reading every one of them across the net and reposting some here, something smells a bit fishy.

Welcome to my data dump-thinking hollow btw.

Jake Reason

Post on Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:31 pm by Jake Reason

Oh, Hi Cy!

Confused? You are on-line as I am.

I started to compose a post. Posted it to look at it, with the intent that I would edit it, as I continue to compose it. My premable didn't seem to reflect where I was going with my thoughts. But I see you quoted it and responded, while I was editing the entire post.

Oh well. It will be interesting to others to read all this.

In interest in clarifying my main intended point, now that it is disjointed, is that......
I am fairly certain the "Russian Book Sellers" Alarm is being over-the-top misunderstood. They truly are simply trying to make some commissions on sales. The US Government doesn't need them. Nor does Russia. INTEL gathering is considerably more advanced than the tactics of these Child Book Sellers.

They really are, just selling books. IM(experienced diect sales)O


Jake Reason

Post on Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:45 pm by Jake Reason

Cyrellys wrote:Maybe you're right and some book sales company I have NEVER heard of as a book connoisseur is hiring nationally across what is it now 10-15 states strictly individuals of slavic ancestry, accent, and on claims of being students, and who all happen to look military in build, type, and behavior?

What are the odds?

No clue...I skipped statistics in High School.

But after a months worth of accounts, reading every one of them across the net and reposting some here, something smells a bit fishy.  

Welcome to my data dump-thinking hollow btw.

I understand. But know that when you are direct- door-to-door selling, you must learn as much as possible of the demographics of each neighborhood while you move from one neighborhood to another, in order to be sure you can garner the widest possible understand and greatest closing average. Sales people who do not listen to the latest demographic data and prefer to "wing it", must be carefully watched. As it is conclusively known that sales psychology adapted to demographic acquisitions and analysis, that is not acted upon will result in reduced closing averages.

This is old hat for me. I did this kind of stuff 30 years ago. No exaggeration. All national companies do this. Bar none!


Post on Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:50 pm by Cyrellys

Hey Jake,

Yes I know full well intel gathering is more advanced than what they're doing and that the US Gov knows all about everyone, can add dna on file for each individual too which is collected at birth and they were doing it long before it was suggested as legislation!

Anyway,  my train of thinking is something similar to what is described in this:

How do you pit two people against each other...well in the US you have the group you wish the public to think as the enemy chase after their sacred this case homeschooled children or homes with children.  You put them in the country under the auspices of joint training exercises and station large numbers of them here.  And then let it leak that they have decided to participate or will be used when shtf and the current power holders (notice I don't say government!) pull the plug on society like they have in the middle east.

Do you remember the big scuffle on the internet in 2008 or 2009 cant remember off the top of my head - in HARDING MONTANA?  That merc company was sent in to set up shop and moved from just operating the local prison for the feds but to try to take over total law enforcement in the town...came in with some interesting stickers on their black SUVs.  Anyway they were slavics too.  It was what is termed a Beta Test.  I, SQ, and a bunch of other locals recognized what it was and contacted Alex Jones who broadcasted what was going on there, far and wide till the public woke up and everyone literally converged on Harding and essentially ran the would be tyrants out of town.  

I still have photos of their website which they promptly shut down in my files at

Food for thought....

you're right these are not "Russians"...but they're people carefully picked to "seem" like russians.


on the matter of door to door sales, I do know a little something about door to door business as I spent six months working for Kirby Vacuum - a licensed distributor,


10 years in the roofing industry as an External Remodeling Consultant for a national company.

and this still doesn't pass the smell test.
Jake Reason

Post on Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:26 am by Jake Reason

Cyrellys wrote:Do you remember the big scuffle on the internet in 2008 or 2009 cant remember off the top of my head - in HARDING MONTANA?
Yip. Remember the Coat of Arms/Family Crest,

you're right these are not "Russians"...but they're people carefully picked to "seem" like Russians.
Makes sense. But the Mountain people are the least likely contenders. As hibernation is their status quo. So there is no need for propagating "beefs and causes" beyond the mountains. Shutting off the passes will be Mountain People's greater considerations.

If the Slave/Rushkies are dropping by... it is more likely they are looking for Kin/Friends in refuge, rather than sequestering and elimination of the best survivalists.


on the matter of door to door sales, I do know a little something about door to door business as I spent six months working for Kirby Vacuum - a licensed distributor,


10 years in the roofing industry as an External Remodeling Consultant for a national company.

and this still doesn't pass the smell test.
Hmmm! Surprise! Says so very much to us who've walked those roads. Understand, very well.

Most Compassionate regards.

Jake Reason

Post on Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:56 am by Jake Reason

So here is a Game-Plan with regards to Russian Book Sellers.;


People with your experience Cy, (Direct Sales) can empathize with the 'Book Sellers' and gain their cooperation.  After-all, they surely don't want to think everyone is spying on them, while thinking they are foreign spies.  

Tell them you understand their need to gain as much information of the children in each house as possible, and by any means, so that they can better sell that family more books.  Getting names helps break resistance when cold-calling., etc, etc

When you have empathized with them sufficiently for them to realize that you truly understand their job, confront them outright.  Boldly with a direct sales smile, warn them that groups are privately watching them, inquire as to their purposes, intents and goals.  Arrange meetings with them and their sales managers to discuss further.

Digitally record your confrontations to inform your Community and/or to help plan further inquiry.  End the Speculations.

If this job isn't for you, Cy, put this 'confrontation plan' out there and ask for others with direct sales experience to volunteer to do it. As you know, this would be very easy to accomplish for people with direct sales experience.

And anyone with Sales Manager Training experience could put together a team of people, train them with a script and confront these Book-Sellers in numerous states. Or they could simply call up the National Sales Mgr of the Book Sellers and interview him.


Post on Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:17 pm by Cyrellys

Jake wrote:
Cy wrote:you're right these are not "Russians"...but they're people carefully picked to "seem" like Russians.
Makes sense. But the Mountain people are the least likely contenders. As hibernation is their status quo. So there is no need for propagating "beefs and causes" beyond the mountains. Shutting off the passes will be Mountain People's greater considerations.

If the Slave/Rushkies are dropping by... it is more likely they are looking for Kin/Friends in refuge, rather than sequestering and elimination of the best survivalists.

You may have a point, but I'm still considering the multiple accounts of the individuals attempting to push their way into the homes to look around. And the report that the books are priced outrageously. And their obsession with getting a look at the kids and taking notes about them. This description does not strike me as people looking for Kin/Friends. But cultural differences could certainly mask. Similar to the acceptable distance between two people holding a conversation varies between cultural groups.

Post on Sat Sep 14, 2013 12:35 pm by Cyrellys

Jake Reason wrote:So here is a Game-Plan with regards to Russian Book Sellers.;


People with your experience Cy, (Direct Sales) can empathize with the 'Book Sellers' and gain their cooperation.  After-all, they surely don't want to think everyone is spying on them, while thinking they are foreign spies.  

Tell them you understand their need to gain as much information of the children in each house as possible, and by any means, so that they can better sell that family more books.  Getting names helps break resistance when cold-calling., etc, etc

When you have empathized with them sufficiently for them to realize that you truly understand their job, confront them outright.  Boldly with a direct sales smile, warn them that groups are privately watching them, inquire as to their purposes, intents and goals.  Arrange meetings with them and their sales managers to discuss further.

Digitally record your confrontations to inform your Community and/or to help plan further inquiry.  End the Speculations.

If this job isn't for you, Cy, put this 'confrontation plan' out there and ask for others with direct sales experience to volunteer to do it.  As you know, this would be very easy to accomplish for people with direct sales experience.

And anyone with Sales Manager Training experience could put together a team of people, train them with a script and confront these Book-Sellers in numerous states.  Or they could simply call up the National Sales Mgr of the Book Sellers and interview him.



Jake, you just wrote precisely what I was thinking. If this is an honest company, their practices and methods need better investigation and some adjustment because they're going about this in a way which closes more doors than it opens.

If it is not a "normal" business then we need real and clear clarification as to their 'origin' and 'intent' before someone gets hurt. The further down the road the corruption in this country gets, the more reactionary the public becomes. There are people out there who will shoot first and ask questions later.

I've had some ideas how to get this done. I was thinking the same thing you were.

Jake Reason

Post on Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:34 pm by Jake Reason

I wish you success in that, Cy.  People sound very concerned about this, in your parts.  I do hope it really is simply an employment and education opportunity for Russian people whose country is in difficult financial times.  And if not, if the worst is true, then your efforts will help put an end to their shenanigans and kick them out. Cool
Jake Reason

Post on Tue Sep 17, 2013 12:49 pm by Jake Reason

Cyrellys wrote:Wowsers, today's haul is quite the manege.

From StormCloudsGathering who has recently been quoted by Ron over on Dan Smith's thread,

I am keeping my eyes open on this, Cy.  =Generals Coup
Tending toward discrediting it, but keeping watch for any other leaks or signs.
BTW, I hadn't opened my email for weeks, and see you have sent a fair number.  I have about 100 from Victor Martinez as well.  Much to go through.  Some are told old to respond to, but will reply to others.
I see that MD02 has decided to take a sabbatical from on-line dialog.  I can well appreciate his reasons.  And have been having the same sort of reservations.
I wish you well, MD.
Take good care,
G-d Bless you


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