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Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

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isaackoi
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Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by isaackoi on Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:28 pm

I am a barrister in England with an interest in various issues relating to "UFO" reports. I've signed up to this forum mainly because I'm getting more involved in looking into "the Aviary" and related matters.

I use a pseudonym as I have no desire for colleagues or clients to know of my involvement (however slight) in discussion of matters relating to ufo reports.

I generally post any input I have on issues relating to ufo reports to one of several discussion Lists and forums.

Most of the material I've posted online is about organising and searching UFO material (e.g. making available downloadable archives of searchable PDFs of the official UFO documents released by the FBI and the governments of Canada, New Zealand and Australia). I think that sort of resource may help reduce the amount of time and effort wasted within ufology reinventing the wheel.

When introducing myself in an email, I generally include two or three links to material I've posted elsewhere so people can have a glance at some of my work and see the type of issues that interest me and my approach to those issues. However, I'm not sure or not whether posting links to other forums would be frowned upon here so I'll avoid doing it unless and until a moderator says it's not rude to do that in this context.

All the best,

Isaac
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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by Jake Reason on Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:15 pm

Greetings Isaac,

My pseudonym is Jake Reason.  Although among Ufologists my real name is privately known, this name is most recognized due to my extensive involvement with Ufology over the past seven years.  Predominately influenced through Co-Founding, Developing and Administrating the original OpenMindsForm  (OMF).

OMF was mentioned/published worldwide by various International Media, and well known by virtually all Global English Speaking Ufologers, both Professional and the interested public.  The forum had an extensive library of communications, publishings, videos, interviews, data on every subject directly or indirectly related to Ufology and Exopolitics, posted by thousands of members.  It was unique on the Net.  However, the Forum was mysteriously shut-down by forces unknown to us, in Dec 2011.  This current Forum is its only active representation.  Archives of the Original can be accessed by links in the upper left hand column of this Forum.

I have had communications with most all the currently living "Aviary".  Some extensive, some sporadic.  Predominately private email communications.  With some communications publicly shared on-line.

Our most prolific contributor on this forum, Dan Smith, is/was also an Aviary, and knows them all very well.  I am sure he would be glad to engage in conversation with you, should you be so inclined.

I could probably answer any question you could conceive, with helpful pertinent information, but I have moved on from daily on-line posting and am preoccupied with future considerations and responsibilities.  Motivated by the imminent contact paradigm and required Acclimation processes.  Focused toward Social/Religious/Global Political considerations and implications.  And so my time here is limited, but will happily converse with you as time permits.

Welcome!

Fell FREE to ask, propose, share, link, and comment at will.  There is no editorial review, philosophical bias or consciousness restrictions of any kind, on this Forum.  Save for common human decency and respect in conduct.  All else, inclusive of every subject under the sun, remains Open Season for all Minds.

Best wishes,
Jake Reason



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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by isaackoi on Tue Jul 23, 2013 6:49 am

Jake Reason wrote:
I have had communications with most all the currently living "Aviary".  

Our most prolific contributor on this forum, Dan Smith, is/was also an Aviary, and knows them all very well.  

Hence my deciding that I should join this forum in an attempt to resolve some of my (many) questions in relation to the Aviary. Smile

Jake Reason wrote:
Fell FREE to ask, propose, share, link, and comment at will.  

Just as a quick introduction of myself, in case you are interested, I'll give a few links below to material I've posted online:

(1) On an easy method of downloading searchable versions of the FBI's UFO files:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread924183/pg1

(2) On searchable versions of Canada's UFO files (made available with the permission of the Canadian government):
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread901238/pg1

(3) On searchable versions of Australia's UFO files (made available with the permission of the Australian government):
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread942661/pg1
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread953314/pg1

(4) On searchable versions of (some of) New Zealand's UFO files:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread952911/pg1


In terms of questions that I have for you (or Dan), well, I have quite a few.

I appreciate that you have many other demands on your time so I'll try to keep my questions very focused.

For a start:
(1) Do you (or Dan) have a scanned copy of Bill LaParl's dozen page report on Richard Doty (reportedly produced in the late 1990s following a request by Ron Pandolfi to Dan and Bill LaParl)?

(2) Can you (or Dan) recommend a link and/or book containing the best summary of Dan's interaction with members of the Aviary? I'm looking for a detailed factual account. (I've read quite a bit online by Dan but am looking for a detailed "Just the facts Ma'am" account that avoids speculation etc. I've seen some information about Dan in a few UFO books, but would like a bit more detail).

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Dan Smith/Bill LaPari Aviary Materials

Post by Gut on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:24 pm

Hi, Guys!

I've followed IsaacKoi to OMF because I am extremely interested in the topics addressed here and, at the moment, particularly this thread topic. I've heard some good things about this forum, especially from Isaac, so I'm excited to be here.

While never a member, I did browse the original forum in the past and gleaned a lot of great information in my quest for education. I'll do a more formal intro in a bit as soon as I get my navigational bearings here.

In the meantime, I too, have hopes that the Dan Smith and Bill LaPari Aviary material is still extant and, hopefully, can/will be shared.

I'll also be inviting some folk to come check this promising forum venue out. Thanks.
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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by Gut on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:15 pm

Jake Reason wrote:
Fell FREE to ask, propose, share, link, and comment at will.  There is no editorial review, philosophical bias or consciousness restrictions of any kind, on this Forum.  Save for common human decency and respect in conduct.  All else, inclusive of every subject under the sun, remains Open Season for all Minds.

Best wishes,
Jake Reason.

I must say, I'm excited to hear all of that. It appears that "open minds" isn't just a catch-all term 'round these here parts but, rather, a sincere philosophy. cheers
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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by Bard on Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:57 am

Jake Reason wrote:

I could probably answer any question you could conceive, with helpful pertinent information, but I have moved on from daily on-line posting and am preoccupied with future considerations and responsibilities.  Motivated by the imminent contact paradigm and required Acclimation processes.  Focused toward Social/Religious/Global Political considerations and implications.  


Fell FREE to ask, propose, share, link, and comment at will.  There is no editorial review, philosophical bias or consciousness restrictions of any kind, on this Forum. Save for common human decency and respect in conduct.  All else, inclusive of every subject under the sun, remains Open Season for all Minds.

@Jake - perhaps this might be useful to your work......

http://www.sermonindex.net/


Welcome, also to the others.

The currents move slow here - so do keep this in mind.  Most of the 100 plus members do not post. We, well, Pman and a couple others do their best to keep the lights on.  My presence here, through the turmoil, was on an assumption it is where I was needed, or closer to the heart, where I needed to be.


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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by dan on Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:43 pm

Isaac,

If you are still interested, I'll pm my phone #.........
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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by Gut on Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:14 pm

dan wrote:Isaac,

If you are still interested, I'll pm my phone #.........
Hi, Dan!

I've enjoyed a lot of your writings and musings in the past. I also really enjoyed the vids of you and Jack Sarfatti discussing the gamut of human existence I came across a few years back.

I'm wondering--since they seem to have no qualms about discussing you--if you would be willing to give your opinions on some of the other "Aviary" members? No one knows them like you do and I feel you are our best chance to get an unvarnished feel for their personalities and/or machinations.

For example, should you be willing to answer, what can you tell us in regards Dr. Christopher Canfield "Kit" Green? Thanks for considering my questions.
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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by dan on Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:29 pm

Kit removed himself from my little universe, several years ago, like most other avians. If they don't wish to play, then I leave them alone.

I can speak in generalities, but it was such a motley crew that it is hard to generalize, so we're kinda stuck. It is a hard act to follow. But I try. There is stuff in the archives and on my old website, that is still accessible, but then, yes, there are those darned codes.
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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by Gut on Wed Jul 24, 2013 6:44 pm

Thank you, sir. I'll pm you for some of those links you mention--or relevant search terms so as not to waste your time.

I'd also like to thank you for fathering the Gus Russo article 'Is Uncle Sam a Closet Ufologist?' into existence. I personally found it quite revealing. Can you confirm "Jim" as Kit Green or is that a fair question?

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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by Jake Reason on Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:37 pm

Dan, I trusted you'd find this thread on your own. Coincidental that you mention a Bill L lately on your threads, and shortly thereafter a few interested people show up. I never did know William LaParl, he was before my time, so not sure if they are the same Jim.

And the World turns....
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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by Jake Reason on Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:54 pm

Isaac,
Thank you for links to your work on ATS. I took the time to review them. Impressive! Should you wish to give google another 'plug' source of your extensive work, please feel free to post them on this forum.

isaackoi wrote:I appreciate that you have many other demands on your time so I'll try to keep my questions very focused.  

For a start:
(1) Do you (or Dan) have a scanned copy of Bill LaParl's dozen page report on Richard Doty (reportedly produced in the late 1990s following a request by Ron Pandolfi to Dan and Bill LaParl)?
As I noted to Dan above, he was a no-name to me until you pointed him out. I enjoyed a few hours last night reading up on his work in the 1990's. Thanks for pointing him out to me.


(2) Can you (or Dan) recommend a link and/or book containing the best summary of Dan's interaction with members of the Aviary?  I'm looking for a detailed factual account.  (I've read quite a bit online by Dan but am looking for a detailed "Just the facts Ma'am" account that avoids speculation etc.  I've seen some information about Dan in a few UFO books, but would like a bit more detail).
That would be nebulous. No one I know has taken the time to build an index of such. Too tedious a work for too few audience. But I won't speak for Dan, I see he has summarized the situation above.

In truth, those who were once known as the Aviary are no longer a mysterious group. Since 2005 most have come out publicly in one form/venue or another. Clandestine protectionary prudences are of a by-gone era.


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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by Jake Reason on Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:23 pm

MD02 wrote:@Jake - perhaps this might be useful to your work......

http://www.sermonindex.net/


Welcome, also to the others.

Thank you for the link MD.  It's a disciple building resource, which is a commendable work, imo.

However with respect to my acclimation focus, in my view we are on the cusp of receiving another New Testament, if you will. Smile

The current Christian paradigm is antiquated in its scope and depth of understanding.  "Disclosure" will throw the Christian/Judeo world into a tailspin of unprecedented proportions.  The fundamentals will of course remain the same, but the current restricted scope of understandings will be found to be childishly lacking.

Over 2,000 years we still don't have anyone else turning water into wine.  That, is a great shame, imo.

Radically revised theologies are required to move the mountains before us.  Theologies with new language and expressions that encompass all advanced knowledge groups, sciences, cosmology, metaphysics, paranormal, etc,... everything we have acquired.  An 'enlightenment' on an entirely different order of magnitude.

This is the dawning of childhood's end.

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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by Jake Reason on Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:57 pm

Gut wrote:Thank you, sir. I'll pm you for some of those links you mention--or relevant search terms so as not to waste your time.

I'd also like to thank you for fathering the Gus Russo article 'Is Uncle Sam a Closet Ufologist?' into existence. I personally found it quite revealing. Can you confirm "Jim" as Kit Green or is that a fair question?

Hi Gut,

Is Uncle Sam a Closet Ufologist?

Absolutely! Cool 

That Russo article was spurred by a Disclosure Initiative that took place in April 2007. With special appreciation to Dan, I was part of the OM portion of the team in play behind the scenes. At that time RP was referred to as CoK25, for then obvious reasons of identity protection.

I could give you the OMF Archive link to that whole episode detailed at length, but its not working at the moment. I trust Co-Admin "Pman35" is working on it.

Anyway, it was touch-n-go that Disclosure might have been spurred as a result of that initiative. Truly! it could have happened. Guss was on-hand to write an article. But it didn't happen. Which I am thankful, as I wasn't ready for a world turned upside down. I was ready to be Palmer Joss, but not looking forward to mayhem. It turned out to be an excellent Test Shot, for Intel evaluation, I presume.

In the article linked above, you might ask... what did Jim tell Bren Burton? Being that I was there, I can attest he said (paraphrased from memory) "There is an on-going multi-decade multi-billion dollar Acclimation program.... or not"

Who is Jim?

A very nice and thoughtful gentleman, imo. Nothing nefarious there. Much of the hearsay that has been attributed to him, is in my experience, gobbly-goop!

http://www.realityuncovered.net/ufology/articles/kitgreen.php

Cheers


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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by Jake Reason on Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:02 pm

Oh, and I forgot to mention,

Gary Bekkum just recently addressed the Uncle Sam Ufologist quandary in an excellent revelatory article.  Loaded with gems.

Fresh off the Press...

Is CIA man Ron Pandolfi the person Uri Geller says reactivated him into psychic espionage?

Enjoy


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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by isaackoi on Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:59 am

Jake Reason wrote:Isaac,
Thank you for links to your work on ATS.  I took the time to review them.  Impressive!  

Thank you Jake. I hope they were of interest, or at least show the type of material I try to post.

Jake Reason wrote:
Should you wish to give google another 'plug' source of your extensive work, please feel free to post them on this forum.

I think those 3 links probably give a flavour of my ufological work. I don't want to come across as being here to spam this forum with links.


Jake Reason wrote:
isaackoi wrote:I appreciate that you have many other demands on your time so I'll try to keep my questions very focused.  

For a start:
(1) Do you (or Dan) have a scanned copy of Bill LaParl's dozen page report on Richard Doty (reportedly produced in the late 1990s following a request by Ron Pandolfi to Dan and Bill LaParl)?
As I noted to Dan above, he was a no-name to me until you pointed him out.  I enjoyed a few hours last night reading up on his work in the 1990's.  Thanks for pointing him out to me.

No problem.

I hope that Dan has a copy, or is still in touch with Bill LaParl (if Bill is still around - I haven't seen anything by him in quite a while).

Jake Reason wrote:
isaackoi wrote:
(2) Can you (or Dan) recommend a link and/or book containing the best summary of Dan's interaction with members of the Aviary?  I'm looking for a detailed factual account.  (I've read quite a bit online by Dan but am looking for a detailed "Just the facts Ma'am" account that avoids speculation etc.  I've seen some information about Dan in a few UFO books, but would like a bit more detail).
That would be nebulous.  No one I know has taken the time to build an index of such.  Too tedious a work for too few audience.  But I won't speak for Dan, I see he has summarized the situation above.

I realise it may be a bit tedious and less exciting than speculating on various possibility. I just feel that the amount of speculation could be reduced if more detailed factual material were available.

I've read quite a bit by Dan and various members of the Aviary (including, I think, all the books published by members of the Aviary plus probably most of the books that discuss them, and quite a few relevant articles and official documents). Due to the omissions and inconsistencies in that material, I'm not surprised that Doty, Moore, Kit Green, Ron P and the Aviary continue to generate quite a bit of discussion and debate.

I think a document by Dan in the style of an affidavit (heck, it may as well actually be a affidavit...) that was, say, 3 or 4 pages long would help address SOME of the relevant issues. (Similar documents by some of the other individuals involved in the Aviary would be much longer and complicated!).

I'd like to find such a document, but I fear one doesn't exist. It would only take a few hours to write one. I'd be happy to help Dan with an outline of an affidavit and some questions.

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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by isaackoi on Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:04 am

dan wrote:Isaac,

If you are still interested, I'll pm my phone #.........

Hi Dan,

I'm certainly still interested!

It's good to make contact with you. I've been tempted to do so for a while but wanted to do more homework first so that my questions can be as focused as possible to avoid wasting your time.

I'd be happy to get your phone number, but I think it would be useful to try to deal with some of these questions on this Forum or by email so that there is less chance of confusion or ambiguities than when speaking about things. (Some of the inconsistencies in accounts of events relevant to the Aviary seem to have arisen at least in part due to oral conversations being the subject of varying recollections).

By the way, I hope you saw my two specific questions above:
(1) Do you have a scanned copy of Bill LaParl's dozen page report on Richard Doty (reportedly produced in the late 1990s following a request by Ron Pandolfi to you and Bill LaParl)?

(2) Can you recommend a link and/or book containing the best summary of your interaction with members of the Aviary? I'm looking for a detailed factual account. (I've read quite a bit online by you but am looking for a detailed "Just the facts Ma'am" account that avoids speculation etc. I've seen some information about you in a few UFO books, but would like a bit more detail).
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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by isaackoi on Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:29 pm

By the way, in relation to the above discussion about putting together a "Just the Facts Ma'am" account from Dan (assuming Dan hasn't published one somewhere which I've missed), a useful starting point (although it's only a starting point) is the factual material in the Paranoia Magazine interview at:
http://www.paranoiamagazine.com/2013/01/the-aviary-and-the-eschaton-an-interview-with-dan-t-smith/

I've dug out the relevant issue of Paranoia Magazine (Issue 25, Winter 2001) and uploaded a scanned copy of that article to the link below (simply because I like to have a copy of an article as it appeared in print, since the print references tend to have more permanence than website links):
https://app.box.com/s/7dkq4ns923r099c53mhm

In terms of books that contain information about Dan, I've pulled these books off my bookshelf for a start:

(1) Nick Redfern's relatively recent book, "Final Events" (2010)- which has a couple of pages on Dan (at pages 211-212).  Details of that book, by the way, are on Amazon at:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/EVENTS-Secret-Government-Demonic-Afterlife/dp/1933665483

(2) Gary Bekkum's book "Spies, Lies and Polygraph Tape", which refers to Dan on a number of pages. Details of this book are at:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1451503024

(3) Ed Komarek's ebook "Exopolitics: A Comprehensive Briefing" which refers to Dan on pages 95-97, 133 and 168.


Last edited by isaackoi on Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by Bard on Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:34 pm

Issac - Apologies



Mental Commentary:

Oddly enough, I stumbled on this very article for the fist time within the last month and a half, visiting it 2-3 times for clarity. Interesting.

As I was sitting here waiting for the Administration to fix my happy fingers... I Googled NICK as a vibe I was getting from you...I was about to ask you for a book suggestion of his.

Yea... paranormal indeed.


Last edited by MD02 on Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:38 pm; edited 1 time in total


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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by isaackoi on Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:21 pm

MD02 wrote:Issac - Looks like I edited your post... I'll try to resolve... GRRR

No sweat. I can recall the brief bit I typed and have redone it. I've also taken the opportunity to add a few more references.
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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by Gut on Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:34 pm

Thanks Jake & IsaacKoi for some great links/reading. I'm enjoying my time here immensely.

As far as Kit Green goes, I admit I've been rather rough on him on ATS. Until his role/beliefs become more--if ever--transparent, then I find it hard to trust his intentions.

For one--and admittedly the information is "old"--Jacques Vallee has much to say about Kit's belief--or rather non-belief--about an extraterrestrial reality in Forbidden Science II.

Then the most excellent 'Is Uncle Sam a Closet Ufologist' comes along and "Jim"--reportedly Dr. Green--makes not only some remarks that could be construed as rude towards the community of believers, but does seem--much in line with his professional interests--to be involved in what we might call memeology.

I think I first came across the DIA TIGER stuff from Gary Bekkum and while I disagree with many of his conclusions/interpretations, that document does hold some tidbits that are highly suggestive that Dr. Green does indeed have a continued interest in learning how to manipulate "communities" in the cause of national security.

I'm not sure if my own personal research into those questions would be welcome here, but I certainly appreciate the opportunity to soak up the collective experience of those here more closely related to these subjects. Thanks.

The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs

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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by Bard on Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:56 pm

I enjoy reading a persons stream of consciousness without ads smacked right in the middle..
Another perk here, I see...Did they copyright your materials also?

With that said.... I'll drop by for sure and partake when Time presents opportunity.


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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by Jake Reason on Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:33 pm

isaackoi wrote:
Jake Reason wrote:Isaac,
Thank you for links to your work on ATS.  I took the time to review them.  Impressive!  

Thank you Jake. I hope they were of interest, or at least show the type of material I try to post.

Jake Reason wrote:
Should you wish to give google another 'plug' source of your extensive work, please feel free to post them on this forum.

I think those 3 links probably give a flavour of my ufological work.  I don't want to come across as being here to spam this forum with links.
We do not moderate like ATS.  Our philosophy of human interactions is not limited by common restrictions you may be accustomed to as the norm.   Links are not "spam" to us as we are not territorial, tribal protective or editors of conscience.

I invited you to copy your work here for your own benefit and purposes, as the broader a web-base that your work is copied, the greater it will show up in a Google search, (as all websites are now google bot monitored) hence potentially increasing the number of readers who might stumble upon your research.

It matters not to us, either way.  Whatever works for you.

isaackoi wrote:
(RE: summary of Dan's interaction with members of the Aviary?...."Just the facts Ma'am" account that avoids speculation)

I realize it may be a bit tedious and less exciting than speculating on various possibility. I just feel that the amount of speculation could be reduced if more detailed factual material were available.
Perhaps.

"Factual" is a subjective concept and doesn't work well in Ufology.  Most all facts are speculations and suppositions of other people's view, filtered through a mental lens contingent in scope upon the development of their current paradigmic reality.

It's been a long journey for me to learn this.

And so what you seek will be difficult to collect, as the definitions of "factual" are contemporary in the context in which they were originally framed.  And also morph as time passes and new contemporary contexts arise through retrospect.

Food for thought.
I've read quite a bit by Dan and various members of the Aviary (including, I think, all the books published by members of the Aviary plus probably most of the books that discuss them, and quite a few relevant articles and official documents).  Due to the omissions and inconsistencies in that material, I'm not surprised that Doty, Moore, Kit Green, Ron P and the Aviary continue to generate quite a bit of discussion and debate.

I think a document by Dan in the style of an affidavit (heck, it may as well actually be a affidavit...) that was, say, 3 or 4 pages long would help address SOME of the relevant issues.  (Similar documents by some of the other individuals involved in the Aviary would be much longer and complicated!).

I'd like to find such a document, but I fear one doesn't exist. It would only take a few hours to write one. I'd be happy to help Dan with an outline of an affidavit and some questions.
You've studied a lot.  Would OMF have known you under another pseudonym?

I appreciate your pursuit and understand that many others would appreciate your findings.  And so I wish you the best.

Keep in mind that what are inconsistencies to you and others, may be required contingencies to Aviary.  And thus are not considered inconsistencies in their view, as they have other info that you do not have a need to know.   And respect that their concerns are as real to them as "facts" are to others.

Best wishes
Jake Reason


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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by Jake Reason on Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:11 am

Gut wrote:Thanks Jake & IsaacKoi for some great links/reading. I'm enjoying my time here immensely.
You're welcome.  And thank you.

As far as Kit Green goes, I admit I've been rather rough on him on ATS. Until his role/beliefs become more--if ever--transparent, then I find it hard to trust his intentions.
It is my understanding that much of his perceived intentions are in part reflections of his day-to-day professional responsibilities and obligations.

Discerning intentions are always a blur.  We all know men who do or say things at times, merely to accommodate their wife's wishes, but they act as if it is their own willing thought and deed.  

It can not be easy to have Kit's responsibilities. imo

I'm not sure if my own personal research into those questions would be welcome here, but I certainly appreciate the opportunity to soak up the collective experience of those here more closely related to these subjects. Thanks.

The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs
All perspectives are welcome here.  Feel FREE to share your thoughts.

Black(Ops)?  Yes, eyes open.  But, I think there are angels(good men) quietly amoung them.  Turning the tides, ever so slowly, but surely.

"We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities in high places."
"Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves."




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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

Post by isaackoi on Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:59 am

Jake Reason wrote:
I invited you to copy your work here for your own benefit and purposes, as the broader a web-base that your work is copied, the greater it will show up in a Google search, (as all websites are now google bot monitored) hence potentially increasing the number of readers who might stumble upon your research.

As long as it's fine with you, it's certainly fine with me. Smile 

In that case, I'll post a couple more links to some of the items I've posted on ATS:

(1) In relation to the US Air Force's Project Blue Book documents:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread730972/pg1

(2) A long post about some of the nonsense written regarding memo by FBI agent Guy Hottel about recovery of a flying saucer bodies of human shape but only 3 feet tall", posted as a case study in the reinvention of the wheel due to this memo popping up in discussions every few years for the last couple of decades:
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread689049/pg1


Jake Reason wrote:
"Factual" is a subjective concept and doesn't work well in Ufology.  Most all facts are speculations and suppositions of other people's view, filtered through a mental lens contingent in scope upon the development of their current paradigmic reality.

I understand where you are coming from on this and I certainly would not claim that it is easy (or even possible) to resolve all the factual issues in relation to ufology BUT on balance I think a lot more could be done to establish some basic facts and build a more solid foundation for any speculation on remaining issues.

Hence my concentration on contemporaneous documentation and first hand accounts, rather than wishing to rely on summaries by third parties.


Jake Reason wrote:
what you seek will be difficult to collect,

I've noticed that already over the years! Smile

But that doesn't stop me trying, when time permits.

Jake Reason wrote:
You've studied a lot.  Would OMF have known you under another pseudonym?

I appreciate your pursuit and understand that many others would appreciate your findings.  And so I wish you the best.

Thank you.  Due to my interest in the Aviary, I used to lurk on OMF but don't think I posted on it.  Issues in relation to the Aviary have only recently neared the top of my ufological "to do" list so I'm finally starting to contact a few relevant people and raise some questions.

My starting point is seeking to obtain various relevant articles and documents, so that I can establish a few basic facts without imposing too much on people's time and patience.

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Re: Member with an interest in "The Aviary", FOIA documentation and other issues

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